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The New York Times and New York Post each report on statements made by Willie Randolph prior to yesterday’s game against the Dodgers.
…from what i can gather, having watched his pre-game presser, randolph was asked if the team is more relaxed playing away from Shea Stadium, where his team’s fans have been rather negative of late…
Randolph told reporters that he and his players play hard and are trying to win every baseball game every night, regardless of what city they are in.
Regarding fan negativity specifically, which the reporter first mentioned in his question, Randolph said:
“When we start to play well, then you’ll start to see a change in all that. As far as my players, we don’t talk about it. We don’t concern ourselves with it…Obviously the fans are having a tough time moving past (last season). So we just hope that they eventually get behind this team, because we’re going to make them real proud before the year is over…We live in an environment where they want it when they want it. Believe me, our team is really solid. We look at ourselves. I don’t think we define who we are by the reaction we get. We have some veteran guys. We have some young guys. We’re a real close-knit group. We know we’re not going to be good all the time, but we know mentally where we want to go, where we want to be…We’re going to go through ups and downs, go through the scuttlebutt, but we understand that in this town, that’s how it’s going to be.”
Similarly, according to Joe Torre, who talked with reporters before yesterday’s game, the only way Mets fans will put ‘the collapse’ behind them is when the Mets win, adding, “It’s just a matter of making that a distant memory and give them something to enjoy.”
…my guess is that fans who already do not like willie will take this quote and use it to drive a wedge between him and the fans, and those who do like him will cut him some slack and try to understand what he is saying…
…my feeling is that he is right, and so are we…we should be frustrated and worried and we have every right to be negative…at the same time, for now, willie is probably smart to build a wall around his players…and, in time, like torre says, if the Mets start to win and we all calm down, and get comfortable and confident, fans and players will join back up on the same page like it was in 2006…but, last season was tough, man, for every one…it was never going to be a quick and easy flip of the page, willie…and, some how, i bet you knew that…
hi, I’m here for the Willie bashing
commence
let me just respond that I agree w/ Cerrone…I’m worried, but i’m giving them time to come together and hopefully win some games and put it behind us
This is one of the many reasons Willie needs to go. He truly doesn’t get it.
Doesn’t get what? Please elaborate…
Yeah I’d also like some clarification on what he doesn’t get. I’m no Willie supporter, but what he is writing is the truth. He needs to keep his players from getting affected by the booing and cat calls at Shea.
Willie realizes that most Mets fans have become fairweathered, and instead of not showing up to the game altogether, they embarass themsleves by booing a team with a winning record competing for the division lead.
Willie is a scuttlebutt
willy please choke on champagne cork, enough already you need to GO.
I just don’t understand the negativity…Most fans will stop being harsh if/when the team gets on a roll…however, the negativity doesn’t exactly help…Considering that in the end, everyone wants the team to win, whats the point in getting all pissy?
i agree with your point. The negativity comes from fans that are not over last year. We need to take every game for just that NOT a sign of last year.
I’m not over last year either…it was awful…For me, the only way to get over last year is to win, and booing and being negative or whatever is very conterproductive to reaching that goal.
Well that’s part of the problem. Let yourself get over last year and move on. Not getting over last year is a personal decision. Either you forget it and move forward, or you hold on to the past and boo at any signs of repeat.
It’s like getting over a girl – accept it is over and move on, or stay unshowered in your sweatpants for the forseable future.
I’m so tired of the “The fans need to get over it” talk. That is such BS. Like it’s our fault that they underachieve. Give me a break. The reason the fans are aggravated is that the fans see the same uninspired play that doomed the team last year. The fans that saw this last year were told constantly, “it’s early”, “we’re still in first”, etc. etc. etc. Then the collapse. Let’s give the fans some credit for seeing that there’s a problem with the teams attitide and lack of hunger instead of saying the fans need to get over it.
>>The fans that saw this last year were told constantly, “it’s early”, “we’re still in first”, etc. etc. etc. Then the collapse. Let’s give the fans some credit for seeing that there’s a problem with the teams attitide and lack of hunger instead of saying the fans need to get over it.<<
100% agree.
Now contrast what Willie said with what ‘Posterboy’ David Wright’s been saying, which is somethign along the lines of: “The fans take it as serious or more serious than we do. We understand they were let down, and we have to work hard to win back their confidence.”
Can we make Wright player/manager?
So, have Willy admit his team isn’t “as serious” and needs to “work hard”-er?……?!?
That’s not very media or clubhouse savvy considering his sitting in a hot seat on thin ice.
“That’s not very media or clubhouse savvy considering his sitting in a hot seat on thin ice.”
Good analogy, but the other option is to borderline insult the fans…?
Again, give the fans some credit here, we saw it last year and all the sign right now are showing a repeat performance. Of course fans are worried. We were told “don’t worry” last year and we saw how that ended.
yes and as you have put it “ENDED”
Mexworshipper
I was in no way shape or form blaming the fans for underachieving. The team caved in and along with it some of the fan base. Willie did tell us “not to worry about it” at the end of last year. This is a new year and we are just getting started. Im just addressing the fans that want to jump off a bridge after every loss because “it reminds them of last year”. We need to move past this and accept the team for what it is. Everyone im sure in the FO knows something is wrong with this team and im sure if there was a way to fix it they would.
I wasn’t refering to you in particular. I was just saying that everywhere you turn, you hear that the fans are being unfair, and that they need to get past the collapse. I don’t think it is necessarilly getting past it, I feel that the fans just haven’t seen a change in the quality of play or the players attitudes to expect any different result than last year. I’m not saying the fans need to boo, I don’t believe in that. I think booing only makes it harder for them to play. I think the fans are frustrated and mad, and justifiably so. It is ok for the fans to expect better. The fans deserve better. Lord knows we pay for it in ticket prices and so on.
You don’t think the fans have a right to express their displeasure with boos?
Look we supported the team %100 in 2006, it did not matter what the score we would win and we did. In game 7 I thought that Floyd would hit the big HR and win and then when Beltran came up I thought its over we won. I was right it was over we lost. I was not yet over 2006 when 2007 arrived. I thought that after loosing by one game we would be ready to go and get it done. One game was all I wanted and I got that one game shy of the playoffs. Now in 2008 we get the biggest pitcher in baseball and we are still barely playing 500 baseball. We have not put teams away and taken advantage of chances to score and win. Last night, even with OP and his 3 HRs we did not score for him or take advantage of the other team. This is our problem. In 2006 a 5 run lead was nothing for us to overcome, now, in 2007 a one run lead is almost impossible for us to overcome. I feel that this team owes me a WS and that they have everything they need to win it. For some reason they are not getting it done. With the Marlins playing more like themselves and the bRaves and Phillies injured we should be getting a lead and padding with with some wins. I love th eteam and cheer the team and want to win, I am just ready for another big let down.
Matts right,
Last year was very tough coupled with the way 2006 ended. We all knew we had to win in 06 because alot of teams were going to be improving but we never did. As i said various times the fans are fickle and will boo failure/cheer success. Willie and just about any team knows that. All the mets have to do is win and put together a good healthy streak and i know the fans will come around. Thing is the reality that we all knew is coming to play that we are not the dominant team in the NL as we were in 2006 and we are going to have to fight for a chance to get to the playoffs. I believe the mets played a little different being the underdog. We as fans just need to get over last year and let this team play. I believe they have the ability to get this done but we just got to wait and see….
Its the same crap as last year with a 6 month layoff in between. Willie must go!!
All it’ll take is a 19-game winning streak, followed by a loss on a questionable call, followed by another 19-game winning streak. That’ll (probably) stop (some of) the negativity for almost 40 games.
Oh, also, I had an idea. I’m as tired of the booing and negativity as most people. So do you think, just to mix it up, instead of booing our guys at home, people could just cheer for the other team (to get the Mets jealous, of course). You know, instead of acting like 15-year-old boys you could try acting like 15-year-old girls, just for a change of pace. I mean, it accomplishes the same goal and it’s a much more pleasant sound. Hey, it’s a long season and I’m just looking for a way to keep things from getting too boring and predictable (although the road trips are nice).
haha…That is an amazing idea. I have Cueto and Volquez on my fantasy team too. Reds are getting my cheers this week!
wow, imagine if this team was actually playing poorly! I mean, they are two games over .500, just took 2 out of three on the road against one of the best teams in the league. They have been without their #2 and #5 starters all year as well as their #5 hitter. They haven’t been great, they haven’t been horrible.
why all the panic?
We need to pick it up or the Phillies will run away with this division. We can’t hold a candle to them on offense and they don’t even have Rollins right now. i know we did well head to head against them but they are playing much better than us against everyone else.
i have major concerns with this team:
only two reliable starters
weak bullpen
horrrendous offense
bad manager who does not get the most out of his talent
something needs to change and quick
The Kansas City Royals have the same problems as the ones you just described (although one could argue that their manager does get the most out of their talent). Would you like to swap rosters with them?
every team has warts. you can find several weaknesses on each team if you look.
What you perceive to be a weak bullpen and a rotation with only two reliable starters is still very strong when compared to our competition.
And even with everything you mentioned, the team is still finding a way to win games. that has to count for something.
you’re right it is finding ways to win, but it is also finding ways to be a .500 team which is what I am talking about. many people are content saying that this team is .500 and delgado hasn’t hit, alou has just come back from injury, pedro hasn’t pitched, etc.
but how long is alou going to stay healthy?
how do we know delgado is going to hit?
how do we know pedro is going to pitch?
well, if alou misses the rest of the year, delgado hits .200 all year, beltran hits .200 all year, and pedro doesn’t come back, this is a .500 team. Why would we as a fan base expect a team to win a division with a team like that?
There isn’t a rule that the mets have to be dominant. Sometimes, things aren’t going to break their way.
They are playing much better against everyone else. I couldn’t agree with you more. But we lost the division last year because we couldn’t win just one of the final 8 games vs. them.
Take this week as an example. The Mets faced Brandon Webb, Dan Haren, and Micah Owings. The Phillies got to face Max Sherzer (who is supposed to be great…one day), Randy Johnson (over the hill), and Micah Owings. The last two seasons, we have seemed to draw all aces. You have to win those games in the playoffs, but I’m a firm believer that scheduling and pitching rotations have as much to do as anything else in terms of who wins the division.
Even take a look at all of our series against the Braves this year. We have seen Smoltz and Hudson in both of them. They saw Figueroa, Pelfrey twice. See what I mean?
but pedro and duque are injured……
I understand that but guess what? You have to suck it up and go out and beat those pitchers or it sounds like whining and sour grapes. If we are good enough we should beat those pitchers, no excuses. you act like those pitchers never lose, someone is beating those pitchers.
boo hoo
Realize that the Mets have played one of, if not the toughest schedule in the league…It seems like we have faced every team’s ace:
Hudson (Twice)
Smoltz (Twice)
Hamels (I think twice?)
Webb
Haren
Sheets
Zambrano
Snell
Meanwhile the Phils have only played two of the teams represented on the above list: Pirates and Brewers, and are just now playing the D-Backs. Believe it or not, the Phils play the Braves next week for the first time this season!!!
I’m not worried just yet…Considering the competition the Mets have faced, to be over .500 is a good thing. Lets see them fatten up on the underbelly of the NL.
We make terrible pitchers look good so in my eyes it doesn’t matter who is pitching, we don’t hit anyone with any consistency.
Which is why we’re 8-23… oh wait…
If you are happy with a few games over .500 for a years time have at it, some of us want better.
a years time is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter what happened last season. Thru May of 2007, the team was like 40 games over .500 during the previous 12 months……how did that one end up?
Its not irrelevant because its the same uninspired, i don’t care, mail it in play that has gone on for a years time. If we had fired Randope like we should have after last year I could agree with you, but he is still the manager so it is totally relevant.
“Thru May of 2007, the team was like 40 games over .500 during the previous 12 months……how did that one end up?”
It ended up, in that timeframe, with being one swing of the bat from the WS. How has the timeframe since gone?
really? The phillies will run away with the division? Ok, i’m not saying we will run away with it, or what not..but I truly don’t see that happening
their bullpen is pitching above its head right now and the hitting will calm down slightly…
That better happen before they run away and hide with a big lead. And before they get Rollins back. We were praying for Moise old as Moses to come back while the Phils are waiting for the MVP to come back, not exactly the same.
the phillies have been playing very good ball for since last august…the mets have not. you can’t assume that they’re going to cool down. remember they haven’t had jimmy rollins in the lineup for a month and howard hasn’t been hitting. the phillies might be a better team than the mets
Don’t tell all the polyannas that, its still early you know? Just like we are still in first and the champagne will taste sweeter from last year. How did that champagne taste Randope?
It’s amazing, you’ve managed to be more obnoxious than Chris Berman with these nicknames you give…
Isn’t the point that the Mets are 1 game back after a month and have played a much harder schedule.
Lets see what the Phillys do when they have to face some good pitchers.
@theperfectgame
I don’t want KC’s roster, but I’ll gladly take Trey Hillman over Willie Randolph. And I’d also like back one of their reliable starters.
So you think that 2 games over 500 is good ? I think it sucks for a team built like the METS. We are underachieving and that is why the fans react like they do. As I recall the fans at Shea did cheer Delgado before his first at bat against the Pirates and he then went 0-4 and heard the boo’s again. You know what if you have nothing good to say then say nothing at all. How would the METS feel if the stadium was silent when the make errors and go 0-4 and leave 15 guys on base and get blown out by a sub 300 team? Would that make them feel better? That would be great. SILENCE is louder than BOOs :} LETS GO METS !!!
I swear, sometimes I wonder how some guys call themselves sports fans. This is turning into a bunch of old ladies gossiping over tea and pastries. Did you hear them boo? Did you see what that guy posted?
Who cares?
It’s a sport. The games are etiher going to be won or lost on the field. If people want to boo, they’ll boo, and you can’t do anything about it. This is coming from someone who NEVER boos. I just don’t care. I don’t know why anyone cares. The media made a huge story out of nothing, and everyone laps it right up.
There’s really only two things that can happen here. The Mets are going to have a good year and Willie will stay on. Even though I don’t like him, that’s the BEST scenario, because winning comes FIRST. Or they won’t have a good year and at some point he will be fired, whether he deserves to be fired or not. There’s really no in between.
I know when I go to my favorite joint in NYC and we’re watching or talkiung about the Mets, it’s about what’s happening WITH the Mets. When did worrying about what other fans say and do become so important?
Amen a alleluia. Best comment all season!
Why is everyone blaming Willie for the Mets losing. The players are the ones playing not him. It isnt Willie’s fault that no one on the Mets could hit against Chad Billingsley. When you can’t hit off of a number 4 pitcher in the rotation that is the players fault not willie. It’s also the beginnning of May. We are 1.5 games back. We have a winning record. A 5 game winning streak can put us in first places. Remember it is only May not September. Also Luis Castillo needs to go. He is horrible.
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t it willie who hung that 0-2 slider to Furcal?
Willie doesn’t get the most out of his talent and has allowed the i don’t care culture to fester. That is his fault.
It’s pretty stubborn to think that you or I have any idea about the culture of the clubhouse. Sure, I can read a quote in the paper, see a 5 second interview on the postgame show and draw conclusions, but in reality, we have no idea what is going on in there.
As for Willie not getting the most out of his players, the two newcomers to the everyday lineup are putting up the best offensive numbers in their career. Is that irrelevant?
They just got here so they haven’t had the chance to tune Willie out yet. What about the guys who have been here the same amount of time as Willie? They are almost all, if not all, below their career numbers. The longer they play under Randope, the worse they play.
You want a taste of the culture in the clubhouse…you should have heard John Feinstein this morning talking about Glavine and the clubhouse in 2007. How they lacked a leader, how Willie was disconnected from Glavine (and probably most of the pitchers). Thats just a sampling.
I am sure you are referring to players who are on the down side of their career. Is it willie’s fault that delgado is aging? Who else has been here as long as willie? Beltran, Wright, and Reyes?
And all 3 of them have had somewhat of a decline, most notably Beltran and Reyes. IMHO Willie has totally ruined Reyes.
And Heilman. Actually, I think Heilman has been here longer than anyone now.
Amen on the Willie/Reyes thing. Reyes has not been the same since the “double-standard” benching he got last year…and the numbers prove that.
Don’t mention last year, the pollyannas will tell you last year doesn’t matter.
Wait, Wright is on the decline? It’s pretty early in the morning to be drinking, npanzeca. As for Reyes being benched after standing in the batters box on a ground ball to third, he deserved it. He was struggling before that as well.
So, just to recap, it was Willie’s fault that Reyes did nothing but pop the ball up to SS/LF for the last month of the season?
Yes, Reyes deserved it. So did Castillo, Franco, and Beltran at different points in the season…but only Reyes gets slapped on the wrist..
Randope hurt Reyes with his “double standard” benching last year. Don’t get me wrong he deserved it but so did Beltran and Delgado for starters. And it really was worse for them to dog it, they are the vets and should be setting an example.
Also, in regards to Wright, that may be a stretch.
I don’t think that Castillo or Beltran deserved to get benched last year. They may have gone through slumps, but always seemed to be playing hard.
Franco was cut! how much steeper of a punishment did you want? you can’t fire someone and then shoot him when he’s cleaning out his locker.
So Willie hurt Reyes’s feelings and thats why he can’t hit anymore.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Right, because players are robots……….oh wait, thats just Randope. Reyes saw the double standard for loafers like Ms Beltran and Del don’t got it anymore. How about mixing in a hard run down the line to first base for all those millions. Neither of them was ever pulled mid game for jogging.
neither was reyes. he was pulled for just standing there. there is a difference between giving less than 100% and giving 0%. Reyes was embarrasing.
So is your refusual to admit many vets loafed and were never called out for it. in my book if you don’t run hard thats 0 effort also, maybe I’m just old school. Its just one of many examples of Willie busting the chops of the young players while the vets get a free pass.
Let’s face it. We’ve all been spoiled by the amazing 2006 run. Its unfortunate end has left us gasping and demanding for more.
You mean where they won the division?
Fans are longing for the time when they won the division?
With this team they have a right to expect more.
i totally forgot about the “one division win a decade” rule. man, i feel a whole lot better about the team now!
Imagine how much more hair Giuseppe Franco’s clients will have when they win the division again in 2016! We’re talking about nearly FORTY more applications between now and then!
there will be an army of chewbacca’s in mets shirts running around the salons of beverly hills
And Gary Busey will still be going strong. Long after all human life forms are gone, there will be El Duque sitting around in a boot, and there will be Gary Busey cheating death and looking for someone to bearhug.
You mean the Giuseppe Franco Hair Salon and Auto Center? You guys cant tell me you missed the poster in the window of Arnold changing a tire.
I long for the mentality of the 1986 team where just winning a division was not enough.
and how did that end…randolt being outmanaged by larussa….
….2006 that is….
Personally, I think the Willie bashing is old, tired, and nothing more than people trying to find a scapegoat.
I’m over last year. It’s out of my mind. Not sure why anyone would be dwelling on it at this point.
Support the team right now, support the players at this moment. Cheer on guys who are in a slump. Get behind them each time they work a hitter’s count. The booing is childish and unintelligible.
I actually like Willie. I have doubts about his skills as a pen manager, but he’s a good guy, means well and cares. He understands position players pretty well and he’s done a decent job. I’m so tired of hearing the anti-Willie nonsense and the people that are still hanging on 2007. Wake up and move on.
“The booing is childish and unintelligible.”
Yes, we should support mediocrity and poor performance!
Hooray for intellectual polarization!
Actually it was ollie who threw the 0-2 slider to Furcal.
swore it was Willie…..
There are only a couple of positive Willie posts here. Where are all the fans that gave him a 70% approval rating yesterday. Come on let’s hear from you. Oh wait it is Tuesday, they did lose, his approval rating is down to 3%. Come on people take a stance and stick to it.
I don’t hate Willie and I don’t know what he could’ve done differently yesterday to win.
If Randolph is fired, he will deserve it; there is no way around it. Randolph has insisted on managing his way and resisted adjusting. The question is whether the team will respond or not. If they respond and win, then Randolph will stay on; if they fail to respond and lose, Randolph will be jettisoned. I just don’t believe Randolph can be given the whole season to try to get this team to respond.
Facts are facts, and the Mets have not played good baseball since the end of May 2007. Their record month by month since then:
June 2007 – W 12 – L 15
July 2007 – W 13 – L 14
Aug 2007 – W 15 – L 13
Sep 2007 – W 14 – L 14 (of course this worsened by losing 13 out of the last 19)
April 2008 – W 14 – L 12
They are .500 team in their last 5 months of action, and that’s what they look like now as well. All the experts think this team is one of the most talented in the NL. The team is not playing up to its talent level.
I agree, nice post. Let’s not forget that the fans are paying PREMIUM prices for tickets, concessions, team jerseys, etc. because they raise prices to bring in high priced talent. The fans that pay these prices have a right to expect a premium product.
Fans aren’t forced to pay for anything. If you aren’t happy with the product on the field, don’t pay for a ticket. It’s pretty simple. Not all of the tickets are that expensive. There have already been about 6 games this year that were $5 per seat. Then, take into account that concessions are actually cheaper than they are in San Francisco. How is that team doing? Oh, and jersey prices aren’t set by the team, they are the same for every team in baseball.
Prices have gone up consitently, and took a huge jump this year. Yea, it’s our choice to pay, but expectations go up if the cost of the product goes up. Just like when Johan goes out and stinks it up, the fans get pissed more than if Figgy goes out and gets blasted. I in no way think Johan should be booed, but you just expect more because you’re paying more for the service, and rightfully so.
Great post. Thanks for the numbers that justify what we all feel.
Those stats really bare out the poor performance of the team since May 2007.
For everyone that thinks, “Its not Willie’s fault the players are playing poorly” are only partly right. Willie can’t hit, pitch or field for the players. However, what his main job is to make sure that the players are prepared/ready to play baseball to the best of the abilities each and every game. I may not be a baseball expert, but the Mets rarely look ready to play. They often seem to be oblvious to in-game situations. Whether it be fielding or hitting. Willie is clueless when it comes to managing a pitching staff. At least 2-3 games a week, the team looks lost or just going through the motions. A major league team shouldn’t play like that. Not one’s that have aspirations about making the playoffs.
willie dosen’t pitch
willie dosen’t hit
willie dosen’t field
willie dosen’t throw
but neither does tony larussa and his teams almost always overachieve and his players always play above their abilities…
name one mets player who has overachieved for a full season under willie, now name one young player who has overachieved?
You forgot one, Willie doesn’t motivate either.
The cardinals under Tony Larussa were horrible last year. They have the best player on the planet in the middle of their lineup. His clubhouse is a mess. Just watch his DWI on youtube. it’s great.
A mets player that has overacheived for a full season: ‘06 Valentin, ‘06 Chavez, ‘06 LoDuca, ‘07 Wright, ‘07 Green, ‘07 Perez, ‘07 Maine just to name a few.
I would argue that those players at that time were playing UP TO potential, not overachieving. But good point, nonetheless.
I’ll agree with you on 07 Wright, Perez and Maine- but the others were definitly overacheiving..
Wright and maybe Maine played to potential but the rest definetly overachieved. Perez had a career year last year and I dont think he’ll ever match it. Great stuff but hasnt shown any ability to control it in his past and even now.
i can’t stand willie, but at least i like this quote. the team has to win if it wants its fans behind it, period.
Hows the champagne taste Willie? I’m still waiting for my taste. I promise I will pop the cork the day you are fired.
I am with you NY Cuban….The day willie is fired will be a day to celebrate. We will then have a renewed optimism with a new manager who will hopefully get us to the world series. This team just needs a butt kicking to get them to start winning…..Winning cures all of the problems….
And who would that manager be….
I don’t know yet. Really, I just think the Mets need a different voice, a breath of fresh air. A change in culture, leadership. Pick someone, I would probably be fine with this person…as long as they were an NL-type manager with a pulse.
I understand your fustration with willie as my patience with him has just about run out as well. But i cant see anyone making a HUGE impact to the point of changing the team around and making them WS bound. Yes we can fire willie but is there anyone you would say “damn that guy would be whats missing”. We have had several threads about this and it just seems with “one million” gms we cannot decide on someone. Bottom line if the mets win willies going nowhere. The mets miss the playoffs he might be on his way outta here. Just curious as to who would do a 120% better job than willie and have a impact on this club.
If Guillen is fired…I would take him in a heartbeat (short-term. His players would tune the shock value out in a year or two)
Carter…catchers tend to make good managers and I would hope he could connect with a pitching staff. Plus he did win a championship in the minors, so at least he can lead a team. Willie just rode the coattails of a bloated Yankee payroll and Joe Torre.
Mazz…I don’t know enough about him, but he seems knowledgeable
Tom Kelly…he always seemed to get the most out of mid-range Twins teams.
This is boarderline pathetic cmon seriously GET OVER IT. Last year happened so what!!!
Its a new year, Its about time we start treating it as such. Geez its almost as if some fans really think we will collapse in may. Some of you guys should REALLY read your post and see how Desperately you guys are holding on to last year.
Its the same tired, uninspired play as last year. I don’t see a difference, this falls on the leader of the team, Yankee Willie.
If no changes are made this team will sleepwalk its way to a .500 season and fall way short in the division…..
anyone ever wonder if Willie is so monotone and the team is just sick of the constant questions about last year? not saying it should be ignored or what not..but i’m curious if somehow in a perfect world, they could go out there as if they just ended a regular season with no collapse or unexpected failure, what they would do
Well, maybe just once Willie should raise his voice when he meets with the media. Say something like, “THIS IS MY TEAM, AND I KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT’S GOING ON HERE THAN YOU DO! ANYONE WHO THINKS THEY’RE MORE IN TOUCH WITH THIS TEAM THAN I AM CAN SWITCH PLACES WITH ME… RIGHT NOW!”
Oh, he can’t do that. Too bad. Because if he did, nobody would move. Nobody would say a word. He would gain a measure of respect. Maybe his players would pick up on that, or maybe they wouldn’t. But what’s the harm in trying? If you’re on the hotseat anyway, you might as well take a stand. If you have to go out, go out knocking the crap out of people, not lying on your back saying “We’ll get ‘em tomorrow.”
I would agree with that. Have a Lee Elia moment…have an Ozzie moment…man, have an anything-with-a-pulse moment.
How many of us can’t pretty much paraphrase the post-game every night? Win or lose….its a recording.
Lol it would be awsome if willie can pull off a ozzie rant lolll…..dont think it will happen though.
Willie does not seem the type to me that will make a scene with the media to fire up the troops, not his personality. Maybe thats what this team needs i dont know but hes gonna have to try a new avenue eventually.
There is a problem here. Who cares what willie says to the media? Is he supposed to motivate his team through us? I don’t care how he answers a question asked to him by Ed Coleman. Why should I? How does that affect what he is saying to his players? I can’t picture Beltran getting hot and saying, “man, I was really struggling at the plate until willie screamed at that reporter” do you see how silly that sounds?
Sure, it sounds silly, because you just made a leap into something that would never happen.
No, but the fact is that this team lost confidence in Willie. I agree that I don’t care what he says publicly. I would like a little more emotion, but thats just me. What I want is a little more emotion from the team. This team has been playing like they are on cruise-control for 150 games. They are .500 in those 150 games. The excuse is always, its only one game. But those only-one-games add up to almost a season’s worth now. Thats the problem.
What do you mean that the team lost confidence in Willie? Confidence in what? Writing their name on the lineup card?
What does that accomplish, besides making him look like an idiot? After a rant like that the media will be all over him even more…honestly, some of the people here are absolutely ridiculous…yea the team isn’t doing what its capable of, but its friggin April…at least complain when theres a decent sample size.
Most people forget / were not Met fans during the dark days early in the decade…If Willie makes you miserable, stop watching the games. Until he is let go or leaves on his own, Willie is a Met…and the team will have to be in a REALLY bad way for him to be canned…Personally, I’d rather not see that happen right now.
LOL!
It’s still April?
Wow, why did I pay my rent? It isn’t due yet!
Great post!
good job ravi
Ravi,
–As AMS pointed out, it is May, not April.
–Small sample size? Small sample size? Ummmm, so you just missed all the numbers cited above dating back to May of last year? That is basically a full season. How large of a sample do you need? Two full seasons of .500 ball? Three seasons? Ten?
That’s funny, but I don’t even think it would take that. Just get out of the dugout and get in the umps face now and then. Maybe that’s no willie’s style, but he has to get thrown out now and then, or at least argue a call to show to his team that he wants to win and not just roll over.
Did anyone hear John Feinstein this morning on Boomer and Carton? He wrote the book about Glavine/Mussina. And while I hate Glavine for always being a Brave, Feinstein did talk about the lack of a leader last year and how when the Mets needed a team meeting last year, it was Marlon Anderson who organized it. He then also talked about how Willie (even in his own admission) does not identify with pitchers and how there was a real disconnect with Glavine there. This is a HOFer. I can only imagine the disconnect with young guys who seem to need to find themselves like OP and Pelf.
that’s why we have the jacket.
But at some point the manager needs to have a feel for the team…or else, why do we have Willie? It must be for his in-game strategy… LMAO!!!
I’ll say it again, this time the shorter version. Maybe someone will respond to it.
Why do you care about what another stranger posts on a blog? If their “negativitiy” is really affecting your life, then you need to step away from the computer and go outside for a while. Smell some flowers. Feed a squirrel.
squirrels approach too slow when I am trying to feed them. Then they run away when I start booing them. They are probably more relaxed in arizona.
Squirrels retire to Arizona….its a dry-heat.
Well then you could just answer the question.
Not you NY Cuban. The question is for people who are affected by what strangers post on a blog, and why they let it get to them.
I just don’t get it. In an hour I’ll be on my way to Brooklyn to see some family. Probably have a really nice lunch. Looks like a nice day outside. Why are people so concerned with a bunch of words people post on a blog? So people are negative. Why does that matter to you?
Well, here are my thoughts. While nothing I read on these posts bothers me on a personal level, it does as a sports fan. I like being a part of the smartest fan base in the world and I get upset when parts of that fan base act irrationally. If a starter gives up a homer in the 6th inning, willie left him in too long. If a reliever gives up a homer in the 6th inning, willie pulled the starter too quick. Perhaps this team is just a .500 team and the reason for the booing is that we expect them to win every game. It’s not willie’s fault that this team is expected to win many more games than they are actually built to win. Before the season, the Mets, Braves, and Phillies were all chosen to win the division by different sources. 6 weeks into the season, they are all battling for the division lead. Seems like everything is going according to plan and half the fan base wants to fire the manager and GM. That’s just silly to me. I would much rather a relaxed fan base that is able to relax during the natural ebb and flow of a 162 game season, but we are in NY. Too many people want to make a name for themselves by being irrational and over reacting anytime something goes even mildly wrong (Joe Beningo).
100% agree.
So they have their opinions and you have yours. I agree with some of what I’ve seen you post, and I disagree with some. That’s the way life goes.
But what I don’t understand, and I’m not referring to you, but why some people get so bent out of shape over the opinions of a stranger that it turns to name calling and petty stuff like that.
I guess it’s the Internet culture. People will say things to someone online that they would never say at a game or at a sports bar. I just don’t understand why people take it so personally. I would hope that everyone here at least has one common objective, to see the team win games.
Thanks for answering my question.
Mackey,
That would be fine, had we not blown a 7 game lead with 17 games to play. How do the fans (and even the players) trust the leader who allowed such a collapse? Moreover, how do you not feel that you are on the same crash course when the record still shows you are virtually a .500 team since last May. How can you not be reminded of last year, when the attitudes have not changed?
“History repeats itself, first as tragedy and then as a farce.” Welcome to the farce, gentlemen.
Just my opinion, but I blame Glavine and Reyes far more than Willie for the collapse.
3 times during that 17 game stretch, the ball was handed to the ace of the staff. The first-ballot hall of famer and he spit the bit. Is it because Willie didn’t motivate him properly? I don’t know if that is the case.
As for the other point, I try not to resort to namecalling (most of the time). Some people resort to namecalling because perhaps they just aren’t very nice. In every form of society, we will encounter people who just aren’t very civil. It happens.
The Collapse was entirely about pitching. I know Reyes struggled but the offense scored a bunch of runs. The starters didn’t get deep enough into games and the bullpen was a sieve.
Mackey, since when is being fan rational? Did you choose the Mets because it was prudent to do so? I didn’t – I fell in love with them. I would compare being a fan to like being in love with someone – who unless you cheer for the Yankees – lets you down all the time. So, since there is nothing rational about my relationship with the Mets, it should come as no surprise when I flip out like a crazy boyfriend.
the blind hero worshiping and jock sniffing here is disgusting…
some just dont wanna see the truth ,just blue and orange pom pom’s…….
The thing that is starting to get to me is that I have to be reminded of the collapse every time I watch the Mets on the other team’s broadcast – and considering I am watching on Extra Innings, that’s a lot of the time. Even Vin Scully – who, by the way, is still the best in the business – had to bring it up twice last night. I don’t think it seems to be getting to the players, but it’s annoying me, and I was someone who was relatively not that distraught.
Well, the only thing I can say about that is, it did happen. And for a lot of those teams, it’s the first time their fans are seeing the Mets since it did happen. So they’re gonna talk about it for now.
Yeah, it’s annoying. You just want to watch baseball, and you didn’t blow that lead. My guess is by the first week of June, most of the announcers will move on. But the emphasis is on the word MOST.
If I was in your place, I would be watching the games without sound while I had some music playing, but not everyone wants to do that. And Scully is still the best in the biz.
Considering that most of the announcers around baseball are terrible anyway, I just might take your advice.
It irritates me too…but hard to say they shouldn;t bring it up at least in the first game of the series. These other teams’ fans don’t follow the Mets religiously and it is appropriate for the announcers to remind those fans of the recent travils of the team they are playing. Let’s face it, our fans haven’t gotten over The Collapse (nor should they) nor has the team played like they have turned the page either. It is a valid topic.
Scully did a good job with it, he mentioned it, has a good graphic about it and that was that. Some of the really bad announcers harp on it when their team is losing to the Mets – as if “well, our boys are getting thrashed by the mets, but, hey, the Mets had the biggest Collapse ever last year!!”.
well, that’s what happens after the worst collapse of all time.
150 million dollar .500 ballclub…. ??? sorry that just dont fly … this aint about high school and god efforts , this is the big time , and only results matter..
OF COURSE YOUR GONNA HEAR ABOUT THE HISTORIC COLLAPSE…..every game…..
all dam year , if ya thought different then your lost or just dont know new york sports..
exactly…it was HISTORIC!!!
if ya thought different then your lost or just dont know new york sports..
Umm, I am talking about OTHER markets.
correct ….. but when the mets come to town the collapse follows … its every other markets chance to ram it in your face .. like a reyes delgado homerun jig….
Oh, and about Willie “inspiring” the team and that garbage. I was listening to someone go on and on about how great a job Jim Leyland did in busting his team after the poor start and giving them the kick that jumpstarted their winning streak. The other guy asked, “well where was he before that?” And might not the Tigers’ winning streak have more to do with getting Curtis Granderson rejoining the team than their manager yelling at them?
If grown men and professional athletes need their manager to yell at them in order to perform up to their potential, then the problem isn’t the manager but the makeup of the team.
then why do we have Willie? For strategy? I thought it was to inspire his winning attitude on this team. Newsflash…this team is .500 in its last 150 games.
Yes, I know. You hate Willie. We get it.
Answer the dang question, DCMetsfan! Why do you have a manger if not to lead and inspire. Granted, it could be for startegic brilliance (a la La Russa) but we all know (even Willie defenders acknowledge) he is NOT a good in game tactician. So, why is he the manager again?
NYCuban, you said you coach. Do you give the rah-rah speech before each game? Do you get in players faces and yell at them to inspire your winning attitude? When you reprimand a player for doing something you dont think was right do you do it in front of other people or do you pull him aside and tell him?
Thing is they’ll get more out of one of their own giving them a wakeup call then they would one from the manager. Problem is they dont have anyone on the team like that to give them one.
It depends on the situation. If I see the team loafing in the pre-game or in a few practices in a row…I might rip into them. I sometimes let them get blown out and then ream them to show an example. (Sacrifice one game for a streak of focused play). As for player issues, if its someone I know can take the heat, I might publicly chastise him to set an example and line-up the troops again. If its a sensitive player, I would typically take him aside. I also try to keep it 50-50 for the negative as well as the positive. You have to reinforce some of the positives or they will just tune you out.
Sure these are professionals, but they are still human. They still look to their leader for leadership. I’m not saying they idolize Willie, but I think the idea was that Willie had played on great teams and knew how it was done. Players would be able to approach him and get a feel for that. I don’t sense that is happening.
Willie is right. The fans, when they boo this team, are really still booing for last year. But there is also a lot of NEW fans. In Shea you can feel the new Met fans, who’ve come to love the team in 2005 or 2006, battling the fans that have been through all the pain. It seems like those guys who were around for 1986 and 1988 can’t seem to get over the losing. They always have the Yankees in their minds and are constantly comparing the Mets to the Yankees.
The Met fans base is a collection of fragile baseball fans that really look toward momentum instead of records and numbers. Met fans know the seeds of a losing team and whenever the Mets display those seeds the fans react as if the season is lost and the Mets will not overcome their flaws.
The NEW fans believe in this team. They felt the pain of last year and they are ready to move on to something better. There are times in Shea where you can feel the tension even before the first pitch is thrown. That tension is then fed by Delgado stikeouts, Reyes not on base, anything Luis Castillo does good or bad(why, who knows, the man played so well last year).
If Willie pulls a pitcher in the sixth inning, its not that he’s making the wrong choice, it’s that fans believe that Willie should know better than to go to his bullpen when we knows they stink. Show, Heilman, and Sosa are public enemy number one at Shea.
WFAN does not help. Met fans are really like Joe Beningo. Mike and the Maddog are Met haters of the highest level and push every Met issue to the highest degree because they know that Met fans are going to get riled up and then Met ownership, who listens to the show and run the team by it on occasion, and panics.
This is the trouble with being a fan of this team. There is always PANIC. Even in 2006, WFAN pushed the idea that if the Mets don’t get to the World Series then they were an epic failure. Met fans feed into this and eat it up.
Met fans say that Yankee fans can support their team blindly because they win and have a history of winning. Well, tell that to a Cub fan who has never won a thing but still treats the Cubs as if they are GOLD. Jordan won 6 NBA titles but the Cubs still ruled Chicago.
Newspapers and the Fan and Blogs are just fanning the flames that are festering inside Met fans and I really believe that we are helping these guys doubt themselves. How do we know that Show is not scared to death he’s going to throw a bad pitch and crash in front of the home fans? Why are we putting so much pressure on this team to win in April and May?
There is something really wrong with Met fans and the Met brass. The Met brass is also fanning the flames of firing Willie Randolph.
This team has had the potential to gross more money than any other team in baseball, besides the Yankees, for decades now. They have only started doing something in 2005.The Owners have fed us garbage while the Yankees have won and the Braves have dominated our division. They lack long term vision for this team(clearly they don’t by not spending money for draft picks and allowing players like Joba to end up with the Yankees when they couldv’e had them).
There are issues between the fans and the owners that have gone unresolved. But the baseball from 2005-08 have, by and large, been some of the best in this teams history. Yes, there isn’t much of a Met history but I do believe that with Wright, Reyes, Santana, Beltran, and Martinez, there is a solid foundation of top MLB talent to be championship level for many years to come.
This team hasn’t had a group of young players like this since the early eighties.
LETS ENJOY IT!!!!
Yes, I want them to win badly but let me tell you, when its over, it will be over. I have more faith in this team winning than I have in this teams ownership finding new talent to replace them when they are done. We can all harp on what is wrong for days and days but if you don’t enjoy these players, in ten years, you just might not see anyone nearly as good.
I agree. All we need is a manager who will scream, “stop sucking!” and all will be well. Maybe a few chest bumps as well as a brawl or two. Yeah, that’ll make us a better team!
Or maybe we’ll be better when Reyes and Beltran stop slumping, and OP and Pelfrey get a map to find out where home plate is. A hell of a lot more important than rah-rah silliness.
Willie claims he trusts his guys…but do they trust him?
You don’t hear players blasting Willie. You hear players blasting players. I think they do trust Willie.
Does anyone think that maybe some of these guys can’t handle NY? Maybe Reyes can’t handle the pressure.
You never know but no one disrespects Willie like Estrada did to Ned Yost and there is a reason for that.
If you have a Father that says, “you’ve been raised right, you know how to take care of yourself, now go into the world and make something of yourself.” And you go out and botch your life up, does that mean you had a bad Father? Is it his fault?
I think Willie knows his team has the talent and has told them that if they don’t win they will have no one to kick but themselves.
And that is the truth.
i’ve heard the more vocal players blast randolph, like loduca and wagner. even glavine wasn’t enamored with the guy. and these were the vets willie tends to favor.
just because david wright isn’t complaining about him on letterman doesn’t mean he likes the guy.
Find those quotes when they blasted Willie. Wagner was upset that Willie used him in non save games. Glavine I can’t recall blasting Willie and Lo Duca was viewed as a cancer in the locker room.
Just because they disagree with a strategy doesn’t mean they don’t like him.
The evidence is very suspect that the Met players don’t like Willie.
who viewed loduca as a cancer? willie? because mr. america david wright loved the guy so much he took him to the HR derby to throw for him. loduca had more than his share of issues but clubhouse leadership was not one of them.
willie couldn’t manage franco, for what it’s worth, and in the end that’s why franco was gone, more than because he sucked.
there isn’t really any evidence that they like him either. whatever, i’m sure they like him as a person, but do they have faith in him as a manager? and how can you take all those quotes about being complacent from last september and NOT find them to be an indictment of willie?
You are wrong. Franco signed a one year deal for 2004 after he had surgery. He wasn’t the closer, Looper was. Franco was 2-7 with a plus 5 era and Met fans wanted him GONE. He was done after that surgery and he knew Minaya was not going to sign him after he met with Minaya during an exit meeting after the 04 season.
He wanted to prove he still could pitch and signed with the Astro’s only to be placed on waivers ending his career. That had nothing to do with Willie Randolph.
Lo Duca has stated numerous times in print and on the radio that he didn’t get along with the Latino players on the team. He never named names but he let it be known that he was not liked in the clubhouse.
You can’t “lead” a team that doesn’t talk to you or listen to what you have to say.
Lo Duca wsn’t liked by the pitchers either. Glavine himself preferred Ramon Castro than Lo Duca.
Lo Duca called three straight change-ups to the same location that Benji Molina fouled off time after time then called for it again only to have it get smashed over the left field fence in 2006.
He was not liked and the only person sad to see him go was Wright.
Does all the “schnieder is such a great receiver, he calls a great game” quotes from the pitchers indict Lo Duca?
Or the fact that Washington is trying to trade him so they can get Jesus Flores back from AAA?
Just write a book about how much you hate Willie Randolph and be done with it. Your constant rants about everything Willie is becoming borderline pathetic. That’s ALL you ever comment on…
“WillieBall” – The life and times of a Manager with No Clue by NY Cuban
Cuban could probably rake in a decent amount of dough with that book from some of the posters here….
NY times #1 seller lol
Actually, I would call it…”I Trust My Guys”
Nah, how about “The Champagne tastes that much sweeter?”
“History repeats itself, first as tragedy and then as a farce” – by NY Cuban
Thats the opening line. And that quote is Karl Marx. I can’t take credit.
“All Gut, No Glory: A How NOT To look at in game baseball strategy through the eyes of the so called master, Willie Randolph” – by NY Cuban
I’ll say one more thing before I get out of here for the day (back for the game tonight)
No, we can’t expect them to win every game. In baseball, some of the best teams in history have lost one-third of their games.
But… Threads like these could have been avoided if they would have just won a maximum of two more games in April last year, or just any one game they gave away to the Phillies.
I’m only saying that because I think it might explain why people do get very upset about an April or May loss. Because they all add up, and it’s easy to forget that as the season moves along.
Not trying to start any trouble. But I think that’s why people are getting so upset over a loss here or there. Because last year did happen.
Have a nice day! :)
That’s definitely a fair point. These games do matter, and you don’t want to fall behind too far too early. And there’s a lot to be worried about with this team – and it extends way beyond the manager. In fact, by excessively blaming Willie people almost let the players off the hook for their failures.
it’s a lot easier to replace a manager than 25 players.
But that doesn’t mean that it will have the same impact. If they have a different manager, does that make heilman locate his pitches better? Or Delgado regain his bat speed? Or Moises Alou stay healthy? Or El Duque take his boot off?
can’t hurt to try. we know what we have now and we know it’s not gonna cut it.
Thats what ive been saying. Everyone wants willies head but frankly who would you put to do a better job. If your the type who wants willie canned in the middle of a season…Who can come in, gain the respect of the players and change this team around. If you want willie gone after the season(NOT MATTER WHAT THE OUTCOME)…Who would lead this team in the manner that you would like.
SIGH
i’ve listed lists of people i’d rather see manage the team, i’m not doing it again
the point is, i’m convinced willie is not going to be the guy to put 2007 behind this team and this fanbase, so i would really just rather roll the dice on someone new
Cant hurt to try……
The season has Barely gotten underway. What if this “new manager” comes in and does a more horrible job than willie? Whos to say the team will play for the new manager? You can willie for the collapse in the middle of the season(because if they were going to do it, they should have done it at the beginning of the year..obviously they are giving him this year to prove last year was a fluke) and you replace him with a guy who has no idea about this team and will spend half the season trying to win them over. I say lets just put up with willie until the seasons over and asses the problem then.
At the very least we should have a different looking team in 09. Perhaps a new manager can accompany that change who knows. All im saying lets ride out with what we got theres still ALOT of more baseball left. Lets not make a hasty decision that may hurt us in the long run more than giving a guy with no manager experiance control of a 137 million dollar ballclub
a “horrible” season and a .500 season are equally worthless to me. i’d prefer to roll the dice and take a shot at october.
like it or not, willie has until about june 1 to make some significant headway past .500 or he’s gonna be on baseball tonight.
A horrible season and a .500 season are the same? Are you even a fan? I enjoy watching sports and actually like when my team wins, but I understand that nobody wins every day (I wasn’t alive for the ‘72 dolphins).
So you don’t see the difference between the last year of Art Howe and the first year of Willie? I had a much better time watching the willie version, but I guess that’s just me.
If you are a sports fan and every season is Championship or bust, you are going to have a horrible life of disapointment.
And whoever you replace willie with will give you a shot at october?
I understand your fustration with willie but i doubt giving a new guy 2 or 3 months to prove himself is fair. Thats why i think we should stick with willie until the year is over. We still got alot of time to right the ship people, why overreact for 30 games??
we are 30 games in and 1.5 games outta first……we are not far behind. Still got 132 games to go
I guess alot of these people wanted the mets to clinch already.
yes, being disappointed in the team that was roundly picked to be the best in the NL for barely keeping above .500 means i am ignorant jerkoff
thanks for generalizing
Many publications also picked the phillies and the braves to win the division. so far the season has played out with all 3 teams in contention. What seems to be the problem? If you look at their roster compared to others, are you actually surprised that this team doesn’t have a ten game lead? They are playing pretty close to the pace that Vegas had predicted.
They will win some games and they will lose some games, there isn’t any reason to act like someone took a dump on your birthday cake every time they lose a game.
i would like this team to look like someone took a dump on their birthday cake at least once in a while.
I dont know about the mets being the favorite in the NL. Theres alot of competition and alot of teams that got better(cubs,dodgers,diamonbacks) that can make a case for the NL crown. Nobody is going to run away with this and thats the differance between 2006 and now.
Hey Willie, screw you and your boring team. I’m so tired of you overpaid whinning wusses. Your deadpan looking face, your BS moves, your gut feelings AND YOU IN GENERAL. I’m 62 years old and have been a Met fan from the start and this is what I have to say.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Oh and Willie, F you too.
I am so disgusted with this team, the fan base, and the situation we have created that I don’t even know where to begin.
We are being compared with the Yankees in terms of feeling as if anything less than a world championship is a bust. We lose a game and the post and comment sections are as if the world is coming to an end. This is a game and should be fun, and it is starting to not be fun to follow this team anymore.
It is coming to the point where it is no longer fun to root for the Mets. A win should exciting- it should not be expected. And a loss is a loss. It is not the beginning of some major catastrophe. I have been a MetsBlog reader for quite some time, but the tone of this website is changing for the worst. The booing, the calling for a firing, the analysis of how every minor detail of the game is the beginning of a disaster. I’m tired of it, and its time for us as Met fans to stop being so cynical and to enjoy the game again.
Yes last year was excrutiating and is something we will never forget. But if you want to dwell on last season, watch clips of the collapse. If you want to enjoy 2008 and the excitement it is going to bring, then tune in to the Mets and enjoy.
AGREED.
sorry, but this isn’t the happy go lucky 1962 bunch. the mets are the second most valuable franchise in the game, have the third highest payroll, and are one of the more expensive teams to go visit. success is and should be expected.
it’s getting very tiresome reading the same 4 or 5 people make the same anti-willie comments in every thread. can’t some new willie-haters post with original thoughts?
even better: can we hear some ideas about the players on the team instead?
in sports the manager or coach is fired or kept in direct correlation with the team’s results. screaming and yelling about them is a waste of time outside of a specific second-guess.
if willie is fired it means the team sucks. glad so many are hoping for that.
talk about tiresome reading
Players? Well, they have a bunch of guys that are still looking to get on track. If Reyes and Beltran both get hot, and DW settles down and stops trying to do too much, Delgado keeps at least doing his recent work, and Alou stays on the field, the offense could carry them for quite a while.
Then get Maine and OP dialed in, Pedro back at some point, and look out.
SImple game really!
Plus, I would rather have top players with a solid track record (like Beltran) starting slow, then no names playing over their head (and ready to fall). At least with the Mets you can see ope that they could get hot and start cranking out wins.
Those are alot of ifs that you are hoping will turn the season around.
Fire willie……willie sucks etc……
If they split the next 2, we come back from the road trip (granted a very tough one) 3-3. Are you guys happy with that? That is a real question. I’d like to hear some ideas on that.
As for me, I’m not happy because its exactly .500. What happened to try to win every series. You are not happy otherwise. If you do that, you are alot closer to .667 than to .500. And thats the difference between ‘06 and 07-08.
we’ll just hear some excuses about how alou isn’t back into form yet, and it’s a tough road trip, and don’t worry we’ll get it going at home (oh wait we can’t win when fans boo).
I would be happy with a .500 road trip. They just played the team with the best record in baseball and are now playing one of the hottest teams around. 3-3 would be good. Then come home and get healthy against a struggling reds team and horrible nationals team.
.667 winning pct. that’s you benchmark. only two team have achieved that in the last 22 years. the 1986 mets had that exact winning pct (108-54).
way to be realistic. .600 would be an amazing season and better than any team did last year. that’s a 6-4 record over 10 games.
No…667 is not the bench mark. I just did the winning 2 out 3 for most of the season. .500 is not acceptable though. Not with this roster/payroll.
obviously .500 is not enough. they have to make the playoffs. we won’t know that until september.
if they don’t willie will be fired. rightfully so.
Well, it just seems like some people are ok with .500. Thats my biggest concern. They will probably come back from this trip at 17-15. Then they’ll continue some more .500 baseball and it will never be enough to get rid of Willie but enough to waste this season. Thats my fear.
Zen,
“obviously .500 is not enough. they have to make the playoffs. we won’t know that until september.
if they don’t willie will be fired. rightfully so.”
Absolutely right. Spot on.
Unfortunately, it was also absolutely right and spot on last season. Yet he remains.
no way did he deserve to be fired after finishing 1 game out last year with a great 2006 and an over-achieving 2005.
don’t give me that collapse carp either. mets fans were espn’d with the “greatest collpase ever.” if they were a mediocre (.500) team all year…how could they “collapse?”
*crap
*collapse
7 games up with 17 to play. How is that NOT a collapse?
And, I like carp. Good eating.
Don’t get your logic. After a great 2006, they play basically .500 ball all of 07 and fail to make the playoffs (the standard you just set for firing Willie). Yet,. now, they continue to play bascially .500 ball and miss the playoffs this year, and you think he should be fired? Maybe they are just a .500 team.. How could they make the playoffs that way? ;-)
you’re logic is off. either the team played well all year then collapsed or were a .500 team all year and the phillies passed a mediocre team. it can’t be both.
willie was good enough to get a shot this year. give me the other manager who has finished 3rd, 1st, and 2nd after the previous manager was under .500 by 10 games who was fired.
You mean “your”.
Wrong, the team played well for a month, then tread water (whilst bored, apparently) with .500 ball which led them to have a seven game lead with 17 to play.
Treading water through those 17 games at or around .500 would have avoided the historic collapse. Yet, they did not. Quite the opposite. Hence, they played .500 ball most of the year AND they collapsed. Really, it is not a hard concept to master. We all saw it with our own eyes. Perhaps you should meditate on it, zen.
Dunno what the previous manager has to do with anything. This is a far more talented roster. I give Willie (and Omar) credit for changing the vibe in 2005 and having the team playing hard and overcoming (until the LCS) his poor in-game decisionmaking in 2006. But, to have a team as talented as the one form 06 and play .500 ball and then collapse the very next year because they were admittedly “bored” and “took on the personality of the manager” was unacceptable.
Under your construct, we won’t get the opportunity to turn the page from 2007 until the end of a failed 2008. that doesn’t make a lick of sense to me. But, each to his own.
and you mean to have the period in the quotation mark:
You mean “your.”
You’re correct.
Last year is done. Move on. Sorry they had a 5-12 stretch at the worst possible time (because the pitching finally collapsed), but it happened and you can’t go back.
Who knows what will happen in 2008. They could continue to wallow and fall out of the race, or some of the slumpers could catch fire and they could run off a big win streak and run away and hide.
Baseball is funny. Players go hot and cold all the time. On the Phils, right now Burrell is probably a leading MVP candidate (so far). Well, last year in May and June he stunk (hit below the Mendoza both months, was benched, etc.). Any team probably could have picked him up for a marginal prospect + his contract.
Well, for some reason, he got hot and carried that team down the stretch. Since July 1, he has the 3rd highest OPS in the league behind Pujols and Chipper. Now, how does a guy go from the edge of being DFA’d to one of the best sluggers in the league that quick?
For the Mets, no matter what happens this year, the off season and 2009 are going to be the exciting times. Huge changes should be coming (quite possibly including WIllie going), and how Omar (if he is still the GM) handles it will have a big impact on the future of the franchise.
If the right guys step in from the minors, and someone good gets brought in from outside, this could be a much younger, more athletic team next year, with a ton of upside potential.
Or they can bring in a fresh batch of aging former big names, and sink the team for years!
PS – i advocated picking up burrell in 2006 and 2007 if the phils would have dealt with us
also, there is no way the willie-omar regime will go with a youth movement unless this team wins a world series, because that is the only way they’re getting off the hot seat.
unless this team wins a championship this year they should both be gone before they can mortgage more of the future off to buy a couple more years of employment now.
Last year is done? Take your logic elsewhere….it’s lost here…
Everyone knows that last year is done. That’s not the point. The point is that the team has started this year, the exact same way it finished (since June 2007) year. That is the reason for sceptism and worry.
If Willie had a pedigree of being a winning manager, maybe the fans would cut him sum slack and be more patient. But Willie hasn’t proven anything as a manager yet.
yes but the differance is the team is not going to collapse in april or early may. There is no way to tell if last year is a factor until the end of this season. No way to know how this season is going to play out and if you do have psycic abilities to forsee the future, you should be a millionare 100 fold by now(lottery). But since we do not have that ability i think we should reserve judgement on the effects of last year until the team has the chance to prove last year was a fluke. 30 games into a season i think is too small of a sample size to tell.
The fans have seen enough un-inspired play. It’s not last year, but the team looks exactly the same as last year. There is no change and they are still repeating the same mantras as if something is just going to click. Well, maybe it’s not. It’s been nearly a year now since this team was any good. The guys playing the best on this team are Santana, Church and Schneider, who just happen to be the guys who did not play through the collapse. There has been zero accountability up to this point. Maybe it’s time to make someone accountable.
Well said. At least somebody is paying attention.
go play in kansas city, pittsburgh, florida, texas, sd, or the like where they just don’t care…
these guys all want to collect the big NY paycheck but want no accountability.. give me a break.
biggest choke job in history and they want to chase it under the rug..
play better, play .625 ball and you will not hear manty boos end of story
What a bunch of crybabies Willie and the Mets are. Maybe we should trade the whole roster to the Marlins and the Mets can play in front of 7,000 indifferent fans each night. At least the Marlins seem like a fun team to root for.
I noticed no one complaining about hitting coach HoJo. The middle of the lineup has little or no production. Littele groundballs to second and first base is all I see. Wat’s up with that?
hello
This org/team has some nerve putting all this on us. And I’m sick of it.. Something is rotten in the big apple. Last season as our team slowly died, we the shea faithful watched in horror and did and said nothing. We were convinced Willie was going to take care of it or that a team leader would rise and direct this team in the right direction. If you remember there wasn’t any booing last season at all!! We supported this org and trusted them.
Now coming into this season we all had faith that the Mets org made the necessary changes. So we were convinced that Willie or a veteran was going to emerge as a leader. As we have quickly found out.. NOTHING HAS CHANGED..
This team is again lost.. playing well below their abilities. This ORG must realize that because they chose not to make changes that we the fans do not trust that the necessary things will be said or done.. And that the booing is really the fans screaming for a leader.
i wouldn’t say lost, but more like needing better direction.
when was the last time the mets have come back from of a defecit of more than 2 runs at any point during the game?
when was the last player that overachieved for a long period of time?
if last year hadn’t happened we wouldn’t be acting like this, but last year did happen and we have won nothing since 86.
We want a team that goes out on the field and bleeds for us. The way our great teams of the past have done. And this team does not have those characteristics.. Not only have they broken our hearts but now they turn around and putting the blame on us.. This is unacceptable.. This is the Mets.. We play with heart, guts and fire,,
Okay Mets Fans, Let’s get out of this negative mode and bring in some positive energy. Forget the Willie bashing, or anybody bashing let go out to the games and have some fun! Okay this is leading up to something. I was at opening day and was very amused at the booing the Rick Astley song as well as every other of those songs the Mets picked. As a musician and Mets fan I felt we deserved better. So check out the song I wrote to hopefully bring some fun back to Shea and the Mets go to myspace.com/metssong to hear it. Enjoy!