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While Willie Randolph thinks five runs and three home runs allowed in six innings is pitching “pretty well,” as he said to reporters last night, the truth is, Oliver Perez has an ERA above eight in his last three starts.
Last night was encouraging, but even Randolph admits Perez’s inconsistency. Mike Pelfrey is just as unreliable, and unlike Perez, he has yet to find success at the big-league level.
Does that make Nelson Figueroa the current No. 3 starter?
Figueroa may be the least-skilled of the three, and have the least impressive resume, but as of now he’s been the most even-keeled and unflappable – while Perez and Big Pelf tend to unravel under adverse conditions. That said, currently I’d be inclined to give the ball to Figueroa in a “must win” situation. And that’s a bad sign for the Mets.
I’m a huge Figueroa fan, but if he remains their third-best starter, the Mets will have their hands full getting into the postseason. Figueroa should be a pleasant surprise at the back end of the rotation – not a go-to guy. Luckily “It’s early as far as pitching is concerned,” as Randolph said after last night’s game, so there’s time for Perez to get on track – and/or Pedro Martinez to get healthy.
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Jose Lima?
lmao
LIMA-TIME loll
One other issue is how Figgy will respond after Casanova gets sent down, since we wont carry three catchers.
I’m sorry, I couldn’t get passed the first sentence. If the NLCS began today! Funny. I don’t think at this point the Mets would have to worry about #3 starters. Perhaps hole #3 on a Arizona golf course…do you go with the driver or 3 wood?
That’s true, the #3 starter if the NLCS began today would be Micah Owings.
I know Perez has not been great of late, but he’s still the #3.
guess what…the nlcs doesn’t start today…nor would we have to worry ab our #3 starter if it did because we wouldn’t be in it.
Ollie is a big game pitcher….
You go with him hands down…
A-B-G
Anybody but Glavine.
Yes, I’m still not over last year…
I am hoping for another DL stint for Tommy Terrible…of course this is after the Mets rock him around at Shea where the fans let him hear it once again
way to be classy
“Nice guys finish last.”
Is it classy to boo your own team? Nobody in the Mets fanbase has any right to tell anyone else what classy is.
Ok, I’ll tell you that you’re a fool instead.
Here are some of Tom’s numbers over his 5 seasons with the Mets:
Wins: 61
Losses: 56
ERA: 3.97
IP:1005.1
G: 164
Will the guy always be a Brave in my mind? Sure. Did he provide stability for five years in a turbulent rotation? OBVIOUSLY.
And I only boo the fans who boo the team…is that classy?
and of course those stats don’t reflect the great work he did for the Mets during the 2006 NLCS
1 game matters to me right now…#162 of the 2007 season. And after he has the audacity to act as if it wasn’t a big deal give me a break.
I do not boo. It goes against everything we go to the games for.
I was a huge Glavine fan and supporter until he didn’t show up for the most important game of the 2007 season. Then adding insult to injury he tried to downplay it trying to remind everyone of all his successful outings. Definitely boo worthy…..
if the nlcs started today, i’d be so shocked that the mets were in it, i wouldn’t care ‘the jacket’ took the hill in game 3.
LOL. Well said.
Isn’t OP playing for his next contract? It doesn’t seem like it – but I guess that tells you that if you can pitch using your left hand, you’ll get a decent size contract no matter what your ERA is.
I guess that tells you that if you can pitch using your left hand, you’ll get a decent size contract no matter what your ERA is.
I think that, unless OP turns it around at wins at least 15 games this year, GMs are going to be leery of offering anything huge to him for three reasons:
1) Barry Zito
2) Ollie’s legendary erratic talent and ADHD on the mound
3) The Bora$ hype machine has been exposed.
Even if Ollie wins 15 games, I wouldn’t want Omar to offer him anything mroe than 3 years. Something tells me a long term contract would only increase Ollie’s ADHD once it was signed.
I think you give owners and GMs far too much credit.
Couldn’t agree more with the guys above… The NLCS doesn’t start today, and even if it did – we’re not in it! Pointless discussion for this time of year. Ollie will get through, have faith in him! What’s going to happen when he pitches an 8 inning 3-hitter next week and then all of a sudden we all love him again? It’s a long season guys, just be patient and let the season play itself out. Always gotta think big picture….
Who is Joe Janish?
If the NLCS started today, god willing, Maine is the #3.
And if Figgy keeps it up, why isn’t that good for the Mets, simply because he isn’t a “name”/resume pitcher? I like what I see so far.
Joe runs Mets Today, the tenth blog listed in the “Other Mets Blogs” column on the left margin.
I do have to agree with your other two points, though.
No disrespect of Joe, I just saw a new picture of a little man pop up on my screen! Hi, Joe.
Do we have any latest update on Pedro?
If Maine is #3 then who is #2?
…pedro…
Umm, isn’t the setup if the LCS started today? Today Pedro has barely made it back to tossing off a mound.
Joe! Please don’t leave Mets Today behind! :p
The common theme with Opea is that he needs to control his emotions and stay calm but I’m thinking the guy just can’t. Maybe he just needs some medication…
i didn’t know third place, .500 teams made the playoffs.
at this point i’d be thrilled to be discussing the playoff rotation.
If the NLCS started today the mets would be watching on TV.
Everyone talks about the players sense of entitlement, I mean it’s 5/6 and Mets are two games over .500 and its not like they are defending champs of the NL east
I have faith they can get on prolonged roll, but man, this is crazy talk.
We have a Big 3 right now, even if they haven’t all pitched that way this year.
Remember that things have a way of evening out over time.
Santana
Maine
Ollie
#4–Big Pelf
#5–Figgy (it’s just his reality)
I can’t wait until Pedro gets back!
don’t forget how awful Ollie was in 2006 and how he stepped it up big time in the playoffs. Give the guy some time. We need him to pitch like last year if we even want to be in the NLCS (as everyone pointed out, we wouldn’t even be in right now. The *shudder* Phillies would,)
know whats really annoying and completely not classy? beerleaguer
Their owner/writer, put up the title of their win of something about the “baby backs” not being a match for the phils…
ummm right.. way to make fun of other teams…
I can’t stand that stuff from the owner of a site…its one thing if a commenter says it..but thats unprofessional
I just went over there, and scrolled down the page. Apparently the Phils have a prospect whose last name is Bastardo….how appropriate is that?
I agree, ddue has a great last name.
Apparently hitting his pitching has been a bastardo as well. Hopefully we will have him up on the big roster by the end of the year coming out of the pen.
Not making fun of the other team ,just pointing out the fact that they are ridiculously young. Jason is in no way saying they don’t have a ton of talent and potential.
I have no problem with the term Babybacks, personally. I’ve heard them called that on ESPN. I actually think Beerleaguer is a pretty well-written blog for the most part.
maybe I took it out of context then…
I took it as the term baby…as in not good or not a threat
It can get to be a bit negative at times and some of the posters harp on the same topic until your head explodes, but otherwise it is a good source of information. Just need to learn to steer clear of it when the Phils are on a losing streak because everyone starts jumping off the Ben Franklin.
You mean other teams fans harp on things…
Surely you jest.
once or twice i’ve tried to jump into conversation as an educated mets and baseball fan, and noone seems to know how to have a conversation with a mets fan without calling them a troll or any other choice words….quite pathetic
Happens everywhere. I get a little bit of room here, but eventually someone comes around and tells my Philly *ss to hit the road.
I generally post over at sports-boards.net, good crowd over there, but not enough Mets fans to hold a decent conversation. I think we have one, and he hasn’t been around much this season since the Phils got over .500.
talking about our possible 3rd starter in a postseason series in May? yeah, how about we let the season play out a bit longer before we get into that…
It would have to be Santana, followed by Johan Santana, followed by J. Santana.
Crap, that leave JS only 2 days to play 1B. Then again, with that rotation maybe we’d sweep.
How sad is it that Santana has the 4th best SLG% on the team?
It’s not sad, he’s got only got 4 hits and 3 of them were doubles. That in no way reflects on the rest of the offense.
Doesn’t bother you that Santana has a better SLG than Anderson (similar # of ABs) or Easley?
That small a sample size, nope, doesn’t bother me a bit.
I’d like to see Willie use JS as a pinch hitter the way Leyland used to with Dontrelle.
No joke, Johan has the most pop on our bench. He has a great stroke and can actually work counts. I think his understanding of pitching allows him to guess very well what is coming too. He routinely has the most competitive ABs of the game when he pitches. Against Smoltz he was the only one that was competing at the plate.
micah owings, too
If the NLCS started today the only way OP is the #3 starter is if we trade him at the trading deadline to a contender. This is one of the stupidest questions I have ever heard.
Maine is the #3, Pedro’s the #2.
But Perez is the #4 and Fig AND Pelfrey would both be on the roster for when Oliver pulls an Oliver.
Strange thread here. Why discuss the state of the potential post season pitching rotation when we are just 20% of the way through the season. Duque could be back and pitching lights out as could Pedro. OP could be traded. Pelfrey could be in AAA…Hell…Heilman could be part of the rotation by then.
Silly to discuss it but in the context of the discussion, I guess we are really trying to size up the current state of the rotation which is not great but not all bad either.
Santana and Maine are a very good front to any rotation in the league.
Perez has potential to be one of the best 3;s in the game but is stuck in a funk.
Pelf is a big project but my god he has gas in that arm. Did you all see the game in Ariz. He was dialing up at 94, 96 even 97. WHY THE HECK CANT THEY TEACH HIM JUST ONE DECENT PITCH TO OFFSET THE FIRE. AND WHY CANT HE GET THE FASTBALL OVER CONSISTENTLY. IF he could…he would be an ace no doubt in my mind
He is relief pitcher in my opinion, and probably a good one. Unless he comes up with another good pitch, then he may break through. The Mets have slowed his growth, he s/b in AAA.
“WHY THE HECK CANT THEY TEACH HIM JUST ONE DECENT PITCH TO OFFSET THE FIRE. AND WHY CANT HE GET THE FASTBALL OVER CONSISTENTLY. ”
HeHe…not a put down on what you say (because it’s true) but I was there when they said the same thing about Nolan Ryan.
How about Jon Niese? Or are we to assume he is the #2?
These hypothetical questions are ridiculous. If the Queen had balls she’d be King. It’s MAY! Let’s see what the rotation looks like in September if the Mets are in the hunt for the playoffs.
Is this serious? Ollie is the #3. Period.
We’ve played a little over a month of baseball.
CALM. DOWN.
Agree. I also think he is trying to hard, with it being a contract year and all. He needs to just relax and let his arm do all the work instead of the A.D.D.
Seriously.
I’ll take Overreactions for $500, Alex.
If the NLCS started today, the 3rd starter would be Pedro. If we are going to talk about hypothetical playoff scenarios as of May 6, we have to include hypothetical team health reports.
Matt – you tell the fans day in and day out to not overreact, its a long season; and then this short-sighted, reactionary piece goes up. I think the Post should take over SNY’s ad spots if this keeps up.
Slappy McSingleton!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, it will be great if we can get Duque and Pedro back healthy in the rotation. Then we can move Figgy into the pen as a long guy. It would take alot of pressure off the pen. But, of course its not a perfect world and i drank too many margaritas last night so i am not thinking clearly. One can dream/sober up.
Who is this Duque character you speak of?
“The most interesting man in the world”, drink Dos Equis and you will understand my friend.
“The police often question him, just because they find him interesting.”
Duque??
BAAAAAAAHHHHHHHAAA!!!!! HAAAAAAAA!!!! HAAAAAAA!!!
Why do people think El Duque is going to necessarily be better than N. Figz?
Not better, he just has seniority and more success on his side. Logical assumption my friend.
Duque is number 2….literally.
genius
The obvious answer is make a move for Steve Trachsel. Within a game of winning the NLCS in 2006 with him on the roster, and missing the playoffs last year without him. It couldn’t be more obvious.
You dont even know your alive.
Johan
Maine
Pedro
Duque
Figgs
off play-off roster: Perez and Pelfrey
I know its not going to ever happen….but i can dream cant I???
boy would that be perfect! i’m with you man
If we were in the NLCS that would mean that our pitching is probably good enough where we don’t need to have this discussion.
Bingo. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.
I think this thread says more about Willie than it does about the Mets pitching situation. Willie thinks OP “pretty well”??? And his constant excuses for the team’s or a certain player’s malaise leads to a lack of urgency. I understand that not all managers are fire and brimstone, but this is ridiculous.
I’m convinced that Willie was PO’d at Wagner not for showing the team up, but for showing him up. The fact remains that Wagner did what he had to do. Willie “talking to” his players obviously isn’t getting it done, and they seem to have tuned him out. When players stop getting the message, you either change the way it’s delivered, or you change the messenger.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Wagner was right to do what he did, seeing the manager never holds anyone in the clubhouse publicly accountable. Willie talks about the “trust” he has in his players, look where that “trust” got him in September. Willie also prides himself on being a “player’s manager.” Ironically, being a “player’s manager” might be the thing that gets him canned.
I think you are crazy if you think Wagner “throwing OP under the bus” was the right thing to do. I am pretty sure Perez is aware he is inconsistant, he doesn’t need Billy to point out the obvious. Do you think Perez is going to call out Wagner once he start blowing saves later this season?
What would you have rathered willie say to the media?
“Perez did a god awful job today. Whats with this guy and the 5th inning. Man this kid better be praying for a job next year”
If the media made a HUGE deal about the booing at shea stadium, they would have a friggin field day if he blew up on a player through the media. I dont know if this will help the team but i dont see it in willie to bash his pitcher who obviously does not have any confidance whatsoever out there. Remind you of someone..(cough heilman).
As far as wags. I think he did the right thing as a teammate to try and get through to OP. I dont think he tried to go around the manager, he was just talking to him like im sure most of the team has. Will be interesting to see what boras will cook up
Willie could start by not referring to a 5 ER in 5 IP start as “pretty good” and “keeping us in the game”. He could say “Ollie needs to pitch better”, but he refuses to call out players in public, even gently. At some point, his message to players has gotten lost. As I said, either change the way the message is delivered, or change the messenger.
Actually I am going to take a different side to this. many fans think this is just a phase that OP is going through. He will bounce back with a good start after a bad. In the past this is what OP did. But I think there is added pressure on him that was never there in the past. I am sure there is pressure from within to perform after winning his arbitration suit. I am sure Omar and the Wilpon’s want more bang for their buck. Also there is the pressure from Boras, after his less than shining deals lately I am sure he wants/ needs to hit one out of the park with OP next year. with all of this said we may be seeing a very mediocre OP this year.
How is that Kyle Lohse 1 year deal looking right about now
Maybe if he actually wanted to sign for 1 year, but all reports were he was looking for a 3-year deal from the Mets. He only went down to 1 year when it became painfully obvious that nobody was going to give him 3.
That was a circular answer if I’ve ever seen one.
We should have signed Livan Hernandez. I was saying it the whole time. Why wouldn’t you want a solid pitcher that can give you 6-7 innings every single time and finish the year with around 200IP? All that would be coming from a #4 or #5 starter. For $5 million this year it would have totally saved out pitching staff.
For some reason people insist that our bullpen is bad, but when you have them out pitching the 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th every single day, we are going to have an issue. Maybe this is the beginning of me hating on Omar…
Isn’t it about time to call up Claudio Vargas. He is a solid fifth starter. He is way better then Pelfrey. Pelfrey needs to be in the minor leagues and work on his control.
Calling up Claudio Vargas could only be interpretted as “our pitching is screwed, hopefully this kid will pull an Ollie.”
Where is the basis of your assumption that he’s any better than The Big Pelf?
Joe J. is bang on about one thing: Perez’s performance last night stunk. Typically, Randolph tries to sugarcoat…AAaarrgghh! Just be f-ing honest.
I feel that I’m trying to stay positive, but the starting pitching looks mediocre at best so far. Team BA sucks royally, and I am definitely a part of the “Collapse Malaise” contingent until we start playing great baseball. Like the rest of you, my expectations were raised very high in January, and I hate watching our guys play crap baseball. Yes, the record and 2nd place is better than a poke in the eye, but it’s been so nerve-wracking and dissatisfying till now.
Let’s Go Mets!
Pelfrey is where he should be. If he is ever to develop, surrounded by the horror that is our AAA team would not be beneficial. If he is not what you expect by the end of the season, trade him or non-tender him. He needs to learn up here.
Santana #1
Pedro #2 (if it were play-off time, he would rush himself into action)
Maine #3
Ollie #4 with a very short leash, Figgy in the pen warming up in the 2nd…
Look, I want to see Figgy succeed as much as any other Mets fan, but until this man pitches more than 5 Ins, he’ll be nothing but a fill-in whom we can never really trust. My goal is to have Figgy play Sosa’s role, if he is unable to use his next two-three starts to show us he has the skills to be an important and Reliable part of the rotation.
As a #5 starter I don’t have a problem with figgy going 5 innings a game (and sometimes 6). The burden really needs to fall on the 1-3 pitchers to go somewhere between 6-8 innings a game. However, once Pedro comes back and Ollie comes back (down to earth with his ERA) then we will have a good rotation going.
(And I list this based on IP contribution):
1. Johan
2. Maine
3. Oliver
4. Pedro
5. Pelf
The one thing that would really tick me off would be demoting figgs. I really like him in the long relief role (look at his relief effort in Pittsburgh where he gave us 3.1 with only 1 ER to stop the bleeding…temporarily). It would be a damn shame if have to send him down in favor of wise when figgs is actually pitching well. If we just forget about Wise who I don’t think is as bad as some make him out to be, but just doesn’t fit on this team…we can have this:
LR – Figgs
MR – Scho
MR – Smith
MR – Sosa
MR – Feliciano
7th – Homer Hielman
8th – Dirty Sanchez
9th – Billy Wagner
As of now it looks like El Duque is not coming back at all so there are no worried about him. And Matt wise is not an upgrade on Smith or Sosa (who is more valuable since he can also go long in emergency situations…and believe me we will have them) Just get rid of Matt Wise.
“While Willie Randolph thinks five runs and three home runs allowed in six innings is pitching “pretty well,” as he said to reporters last night,”
Randolph = idiot.
’nuff said.
Did anyone see Santana pitch a complete game shutout for the Angels last night? Too bad it was the wrong Santana.
Mike and the Mad Dog are presently telling fans that “the Mets are okay based on the large amount of injuries. And that fans should stop taking them apart after every loss, and pumping them up after every win.”
Matt are you going to point this out or do we only point out when you disagree with them?
The past several days these two guys have been doing a fantastic job with the Mets, and I just don’t understand why this site only rips them…sometimes they are bad, but other times they are really good…it should go both ways.
Figgy’s whole bag is as an innings eater. Remember all the stories before his first start, about pitching 280 IP last year, and all the eight innings, complete games, complete EXTRA INNING games, etc?
This guy is a workhorse. He’s competing for the eventual #5 spot. He doesn’t have to have a 0.25 ERA. Unless he is completely unraveled, lets see what he can do.
Another thing, from OP’s start last night. After 6IP he was at 95 pitches. Castillo came up and got on base. Why not keep OP in? He can bunt him over, no? He could have at least started the 7th.
there might have been 2 outs, but i dont absolutely remember
No Castillo led off the inning. There were no outs.
At this point in the season, does it really matter if we don’t have a defined 3rd starter. Just a silly article. The main thing is the 4 guys after Johna need to step up, pitch better and deeper into games.
Agree with the write above that we need to ship pelfrey to the minors. its so obvious this guy is not a ML pitcher yet.
What about taking these two mental cases (O & Pelf) and package ‘em for a decent starting pitcher. I’m sure we’ll have takers thinking all they might need is a change of scenery. To be honest I hate watching Big Pelf gagging on thaTHAT MOUTH PIECE THEN LICKING HIS WHOLE HAND AFTER GIVING UP RUNS AND HITS LIKE THEY WERE GOING OUT OF STLYE.