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According to Dan Graziano in the Star-Ledger, citing ‘a person familiar with 
the team’s thinking, who requested anonymity,’ Mets management is planning a reevaluation at the end of this month.
…first off, let me take a minute to recognize graziano, who does a great job for the Star-Ledger…he’s thoughtful in his research and opinions, and he always gives me something new to think about…and i appreciate that…anyway…
The Mets are 71–71 since June 1 of last season, as Graziano points out, adding that, if the team does not find a way to assert itself in the division by June, “the Wilpons will look seriously at whether a change is necessary in the manager’s office.”
Graziano continues on to detail Willie Randolph’s strengths and weaknesses, concluding:
“Randolph is a decent man who cares deeply about his team and his job and believes strongly in himself. But he’s also stubborn, and that’s what has him in trouble.”
…i like willie’s old-school, hard-nosed style, but i just don’t believe the current crop of talent that he is working with plays to willie’s strength…in fact, they may help to expose his weaknesses…the way i continue to see this is, assuming the team continues to step sideways, either the Mets will need new, younger players for willie, or a new manager for these type of players…
…i know, the two worked together in 2006…the thing is, it is no longer 2006, when, for whatever reason, things clicked, and every one was on the same page…remember, “Pick each other up,” which was willie’s mantra that spring, and which was echoed over and over again by the players all season long…words don’t really matter much…however, to me, that was a symbol of how they were all working from the same place, how they had one another’s backs, they were together, all on the same page…this group, today, do not seem to have that same feel…instead, it feels like a lot of individuals, including the manager, all working out of sync, hence the .500 record, win today, lose tomorrow pattern…
…like i said, i like willie…but i also like that the Wilpons will review all of this after Memorial Day, which is seemingly the standard review date in baseball…like i wrote last week, this team just feels like it is at a crossroads, or at a point where it may be time to build upon the accomplishments of the last few seasons, as opposed to clinging to them in hopes that things may get better…
Better late than never.
This team certainly has talent, and whether they will respond to another manager is unknown, but this team should have been a better than .500 team over the past year.
I tend to agree…yes there have been mitigating factors, but the vibe is definitely different. I don’t sense confidence from these guys…more like anxiety, or something. No idea if a new manager would shake it up or not, but it still doesn’t feel like we’re getting 100% from this team (by which I do NOT mean effort, I mean…something else.)
Willy is a goner, this team has not repsonded to him in a looooooong time, nothing is going to change now.
Lets start talking replacement candidates…
Lee Mazilli
Frank Robinson
Buck Showalter
Give Wally Backman a chance. He has had a lot of success in the minors.
Mazilli and Robinson? You’ve got to be kidding. Showalter at least has had some success.
Willie is a lame duck! Plain and simple!
how about any non-Yankee?
“Willy is a goner, this team has not repsonded to him in a looooooong time, nothing is going to change now.
Lets start talking replacement candidates”
Agree. I like Willie also but I also agree with Dan Graziano of the Star-Ledger that Willie is too stubborn. I really beleive that what we’ve seen over the past year into this year (500 ball) is about what you can expect from this team under Willie’s control. It is what it is, no amount of rationalizing or putting a positive spin is going to change that. We’re getting very close to a change, the winds of change are already blowing in from the Shea outfield. If this team (with the highest payroll in the NL) is still playing 500 ball by the Allstar Break then there won’t be any other choice.
I bet HoJo would look good in the manager’s office
Why? Because he played for the Mets? I’d prefer no one who had anything to do with the current staff.
Why doesn’t he get any of the blame when the team can’t hit? Isn’t that his job? Seems like they performed alot better before he took over.
They fired Rick Down last year, too. How many batting coaches does it take to get major leaguers to hit in the clutch?
apparently more than two
Can they evaluate now? Willie is who he is, I don’t see him changing too much in a matter of a month.
Well, this is what a lot of people have been speculating around here for some time and that’s because it makes sense. If this mix of players isn’t a good fit for Willie, you get rid of Willie and see if they’ll step up their play for someone else. If they continue to meander, then you blame the guy who put this team together in the first place – i.e. Omar.
I really don’t think you can blame Omar…When he was brought in, the edict from ownership was to turn the team around, and do it quickly. He has done that, but the result (as expected) is that this team has its share of older players, while depth in the minors just isn’t there. No GM is going to hit a home run with every move he makes, but Omar has done the job asked of him, which was to put together a collection of talent superior to the competition. Once he does that, it really is in Willie’s hands.
Randolph was brought in to help bring the team back from the depths of the Art Howe era, which he certainly has done. I think he has done a very good job here, but with only 3+ seasons of managing under his belt, I just don’t think he’s got the experience to be a championship caliber manager. Obviously I’d like to see him succeed here, but if it gets to a point where the team needs to be shaken up, there is really just one viable solution, and that would be to replace Willie. Of course, you really can’t do that midseason and expect to win it all (the 2003 Marlins notwithstanding, who replaced Torborg with Mckeon in May of that year)
“Well, this is what a lot of people have been speculating around here for some time and that’s because it makes sense. If this mix of players isn’t a good fit for Willie, you get rid of Willie and see if they’ll step up their play for someone else. If they continue to meander, then you blame the guy who put this team together in the first place – i.e. Omar.”
Couldn’t have said it better myself. You are right on the money. Nothing more to be said, end of story.
I’ve been saying Willie is “stubborn” and “egotistical” for a long time now. So have a lot of other fans. Funny that this is finally being said as “fact”.
Oh no…Graziano and the Wilpons must just be “Willie haters” and thrive on negativity. What mean people!
:-)
Since when do the Mets play old-school, hard-nosed baseball? I loved the idea of “Willie ball” when Willie started, but lately it seems like the team doesn’t bother to manufacture runs, isn’t aggressive, and doesn’t stress fundamentals. Are they just ignoring Willie’s signs, or is he, potentially, not managing in an “old school” way anymore? I think the “old school” part seems like it comes to play in the lineup card and clubhouse. EVERYTHING is by seniority, etc. He may be thinking too much like a washed up veteran player and not enough like a manager.
That said, if he’s trying to instill some grit into his team and they’re tuning him out, he still needs to go, but good luck to whomever takes his place. Yikes.
Well, that’s my point.
I feel like it’s either him and player’s who fit his preferred style, or these players and a manager who fits their style.
Admittedly, I have not thought this all the way through.
It’s a rough sketch of an idea. But, Graziano’s column seemed like the ideal time to start working through it.
Willie Randolph does not understand the mentality of this generation of player. He manages to his generation, which does not work anymore.
It’s interesting . . . what kind of a manager would fit their style? It could be that a guy who throws chairs would be even worse, and they need someone MORE detached than Willie. Willie could be a firebrand behind closed doors — we just don’t know. He doesn’t break the code of silence. Or, it could be a personality issue well outside the oversimplified continuum of chair-throwing vs. Joe Torre.
(Or I don’t know, that is — is there any inside info on that — Willie’s style with the media absent?)
I really don’t think it has much to do with throwing chairs or not. There are a ton of articles on the web about “managing millenials” … It’s a generational perspective.
Willie’s style is the same of Joe Torre. They let their players manage themselves. Willie believes in his veterans and trusts his players, so he lets them go out and play. This is not necessarily a bad thing, and it worked perfectly for the Yankees. But this team is different. They need guidance. I remember during spring training when a reporter asked Willie if he talked to the team about the collapse and he said that he felt he didn’t need to. I would think that after the worse collapse in history, it should have been at least talked about. Trying to move past it is one thing, but just bottling it up is another.
Willie has said in the past that he does not hold team meetings. he has also stated that he does not scream, yell, or throw chairs, other than that 1 time reported last year. what, to me, speaks volumes, is that during their collapse last year, the only team meeting held was called by Marlon Anderson. the pinch hitter! the man who wasn’t even on the team for a large part of the season!!
The ship was sinking and nobody called the crew together to try to bail water.
That’s what Graziano suggests. I had read that he had gotten into some players’ faces during the collapse (or at least, he claimed he had,) to no avail. Anyway, it’s pretty clear this isn’t working. I’m just amazed that a dunderhead like Terry Francona seems to have the formula.
You know I don’t really remember Willie really coaching a very National League style game effectively.
I would keep him untill the end of the year. I really don’t think a new manager will make much of a difference. Castillo is still old, Beltran has no protection and recovering from a knee operation to pile onto his general Beltran pain. Alou is a trip to the DL waiting to happen, and Delgado, well we all know.
That said, give him a year. Its not very likely that who ever they can bring in now will make the difference.
Wait next year, so you can have a wider pool of candidates to chose from. I would love Tony Perez. The guy catches his own pitchers during warm-up! Talk about know what the guy has for that day.
I mean Tony Pena.
no reason we can’t get pena now
Well if you get him know, he has to go through the “getting to know my players phase”, which is something that happens during spring training and not in the middle of a season.
The big problem with Willie (if you follow him day-to-day) is that he still thinks he’s in the American League! He doesn’t play small ball when it calls for it (when was the last time you saw a squeese play or safety squeese with a runner on third and less than two out?). He just too stubborn (there goes that word again) to change his old-Yankee-AL ways.
Do you really expect a National League team to be any better than 500 playing under American-League rules?
I think this next 7 game stretch will be a sign of what to expect from this team. I don’t think 4-3 is good enough. I’m not one of these fans that thinks they ened to win every game but they need to go at least 5-2 over these 7 games.
Get hot, take your day off and then go into your key May series of 4 game sin Atlanata, including the double-header.
I thought the same thing…we really need to see them kick this homestand in the ass.
At the end of the day, 3-3 road trip is great, and a 14-12 April is better than bad, but I need them to make me believe.
I generally go with the philosophy of, if you win 2 of 3 at home and go .500 on the road, you win 95 games.
Had that Pitt game not been rained out and they had won, they would be on pace of winning 2 of 3 at home. they are 2 games under .500 on the road which means it is really a one game swing.
so in other words, they are right where they need to be in my opinion of they can stay consistent.
you maintain this pace by beating up the weak teams and playing good enough against the good teams. 4-3 at home against the Reds and nats is just not acceptable. at least 5-2 is necessary.
right with you…the math is fine, but – for me – the vibe is not.
I’m baffled that absolutely no one has noticed that the Mets schedule so far has been considerably more challenging than that of Florida or Philly. Both of those teams have faced inferior competition and racked up impressive records against sub-.500 teams, while struggling against teams with better records.
The Mets, by contrast, have played most of their games against stronger competition. Obviously, the schedule will equalize as the season progresses.
I bring this up because if the Mets had, say, three more victories, the calls for Willie’s job would be more muted, to say the least. it’s too soon to make a valid judgement about Willie’s performance this year. (Yes, I do get the point about his record stretching back to last season).
I don’t fault bloggers for not noticing this. But it does perplex me that sportswriters (who are, like, paid to figure stuff out) can’t be bothered to do basic research.
No, I’ve noticed, but I honestly see a style of play that’s a problem. There have been countless debates as to whether “lifelessness” or “crispness” just mean “winning,” but I don’t think that’s the case.
I really don’t blame Willie too much for this team, after all they have only (3) starters – right now (2) that the team can believe in ( Maine & Santana) you have figs and perez and Pelfrey? I mean come on. those guys are at best are number (5) starters. The starting pitching is awful and the hitters, I hope start warming up or this team is destined for mediocrity
I think things like having more errors than hits against the Pirates really stick out. Noboduy suggests they should win all their games, not even against weaker competition, but giving away a game like that to weaker competition is alarming.
Lose to Pittsburgh 4-3 in a crisply played game, and you’ll get less hand wringing.
But that Pittsburgh game, and the Figueroa loss to the Dodgers really make a fan question the character of the team, and whether the manager is getting the most from his players.
. . . and, note that Graziano’s column is really about the past 142 games of Mets’ baseball, not just this year’s first 30. We’re 71-71 over that stretch. Two or three games and we’re 74-68, which is OK, but . . . .
if the mets had two more victories last year we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.
if the mets had three less victories this year we might not either because he might already be gone.
Free Willie!
Matt, I completely agree with your assessment. I only hope that making an assessment by Memorial Day and potentially (hopefully) making a change leaves enough time to right the ship and/or turn it around.
I like Willie as a manager, but as you said, his style suits the team from two years ago now, not this one. His style is too Joe Torre and suited for team of accomplished professionals, not this group that seems to need a little help in the motivation department.
Jose Valentin for manager!!!
thats actually not the dumbest thing ive ever heard
Bottom line, he should have been gone after the collapse. Someone would have been held accountable, and in turn there would have been less booing and negativity to start the year. Johan Santana was a band aid. Unfortunately, he is probably not going to be the cure.
I’m not a Willie supporter and wasn’t a big fan of them hiring him in 2005. I even found myself doubting him in 2006 even though it was an amazing season. I will not be heartbroken if Willie is replaced soon, but what this team also needs is to start focusing on getting younger. I personally can’t stand having a team with one of the highest average ages in the league and feel like Omar has dug himself in quite a hole by holding on to the older guys for as long as he has. The offseason will help when Delgado, Alou and El Duque finally come off the books, but I hope Omar is smart enough to not chase after new talent already towards the end or past their prime. Right now they are old in LF, 2B, 1B, C and the starting rotation and that all needs to change. I hope that Omar will learn from this and realize that having a team full of guys in their 30s is not the way to go.
Hey!!! See my post a few notes later! Great minds think alike!
What scares me about this reevaluation is that there is going to be nothing to reevaluate. We already know how the players truly respond to Randolph. Letting this known is the public seems to be a ploy by the organization to try and get the players to play better. Without having to fire Willie.
If the Mets play decent baseball for the next few weeks and the team decides to keep Randolph and then a month or so later we find ourselves exactly where we are now,, I’m going to go crazy.
At that point in mid July if this team falls back to this type of baseball,, not only should Willie be gone but OMAR right along with him.
I seriously don’t think the Mets organization wants to go down that road. I can only imagine what type of FIRESTORM that would bring. Shea would be a very dark place.
Especially right before CitiField. Firing Willie at the end of the year and hiring another manager in the off season would probably be the best transition. Then they could market the new manager along with the new stadium. Firing him mid season would mean there would probably have to be an interim manager until they found a permanent one. That would be messier than just waiting until the off season, so I’m sure the Wilpons are hoping they won’t have to do anything for the time being.
If they reevaluate and want to get rid of Randolph, I’m fine with that. What I fear is the reassessment.
This team, in my opinion, needs to win now with these players, or with a few tweaks. But this team has to get younger to compete in the future, and I really think that will mean some rebuilding in the near future (Delgado, El Duque, Pedro, Moises, even Castillo are really too old, and how do you replace all or most of that? You either make a huge mistake by trying to find veterans for all those roles, or you go all young — not really an option for this team with a thin system — or you bite the bullet a little and allow some time for kids to develop.). My concern is that these Met owners never look far enough into the future to build a solid foundation. They constantly go on these cycles of being competitive with a veteran team, to losing with a too-old team, to making fixes with more veterans. It’s no way to build a dynasty.
With Citifield opening next year, I fear that the Mets will make poor personnel choices to win now again.
Sigh.
i don’t see what’s hard-nosed about willie at all. he may have been hard-nosed player but he is anything but as a manager.
glad ownership feels the same way i do.
It’s about time! Fire Willie!
This team is playing scared. That collapse messed with all of them…as it should have!
Playing scared? That’s funny.
If the Mets are still hovering around .500 by Memorial Day, I agree with Graziano and Cerrone: Willie’s gotta go. Whether he realizes it or not, the team has been mediocre for almost a full season. There’s no disparity in W-L records. They define you and the definition of what you bring.
JUST, PLEASE GOD, DON’T BRING IN LEE MAZZILLI.
He’s about as smart as a cocunut…
Amen to that, brother. Though I think you should apologize to coconuts.
Charlie Manual is as smart as a coconut too. But he gets those guys to play their hearts out.
Manuel’s guys aren’t the soft-bored bunch that pervades the Queens borough.
Utley, Myers, Hamels and Rollins are all fierce competitors who hate losing…
AND, they all like coconuts!
Ha!
Why the negativity regarding Mazzilli? He is exactly what this team needs. He was a MET player, is a NY guy, he will kick some butt and we need to hire Leo Mazzone to replace the Jacket. It will be the MAZZ and MAZZ show!
I used to respect Maz, that is until opened his mouth.
Have you never watched Geico’s pre and/or post-game shows?? Mazzilli brings absolutely ZERO insight as an analyst. Harold Reynolds renders him a walking-talking brain-dead zombie.
I can only imagine what he’d have to say after every loss:
“We need to play better. We can’t lose games. Wins are better than losses…”
the choice is simple. stick with what you got or let the fire sale begin in july if not sooner.
thats doesn’t even make any sense,,,, guy.. I hope you being sarcastic.. Beltran the warrior-that name is a joke Right?
Willie is all that needs to go this season
I’ve had the thought of a fire sale in the back of my mind for a while now. I doubt they would do it for the sheer fact of CitiField opening next season, but if they looked to build around Santana, Maine, Wright, & Reyes and move everyone else, they could really be something in 2 or 3 years. Wagner would net some good prospects at the deadline. Beltran’s contract looks like a bargin these days.
I really don’t think they will do it, and I’m not sure myself if they should. It would be an extrememly drastic move, but would it be worth it in the long run? Maybe.
They won’t because of Citifield, exactly. This team never firesales. They always buy.
I agree, wait til July and see where we are.
I think this whole article is complete B.S.
“A person familiar with the teams thinking, who requested anonymity”… So this person is a mind reader?? There’s just something not sitting right with me regarding this article,
So, Watergate never happened? All that reporting was based on an anonymous source.
Sheesh. All journalism depends on highly placed anonymous sources. Graziano isn’t going to print it if it is, say, a vendor at Shea. He will if the source truly is highly placed, has a record of accuracy, etc.
I bet Wilpon has Bobby V on speed dial.
while I feel most of all this that everyone’s saying, I hate the idea of a mid-season manager change, in general. This is a lame citation, but someone last year wrote an article that correlated mid-season firings to orginizations that were generally bad (or in a period of badness). And I don’t want the Mets to be a generally bad orginization again.
I think that you have the horse before the cart. It’s not the firing of the manager mid-season that makes an organization a bad one. It’s a bad organization that finds itself having to make such a move. As much as we all love the Mets, they aren’t exactly the best-run franchise. Far from it.
yes, right, exactly what I mean (correlated, not made)…I really want to believe that the omar tenure will trend upwards, rather than provide (more) evidence to the contrary.
Got it. And I’m an idiot because I meant to say cart before the horse. Having the horse before the cart is the preferred method of horse-cart locomotion.
maybe I’m just punchy becasue it’s friday, but you’ve now made me lol twice in one thread.
Maybe you have a man-crush on me.
you and ryan church (but don’t be jealous)
This whole thing about playing Willie ball and about the players tuning him out reminds me of something that I never quite understand.
At the begining of the year when Castillo was batting 2 (and this happened a bunch of times last year) Reyes would get on base to lead off the game and then Castillo would try bunting him over. And Gary would say something like Castillo must be doing this on his own and Willie has spoken to Castillo about how he doesn’t want him doing that. What I don’t understand is if Willie tells him he doesn’t want him doing why does he still do it and how is he even allowed to do it.
He’s obviously not afraid of Willie or just tunes him out.
Please please bring Bobby V back. He should have never been let go. We went to the WS with scrubs in 2000, can you imagine what he can do with this team. AND he will keep and play the young guns not the old broken down crew Will loves so much.
The first month of the season showed us how the Mets respond to Willie. He made an effort in the offseason to get the guys on the same page and it didn’t work.
The only hope this team has to win a WS is to bring a guy in here that the players truly respect. Someone that brings this team together and also makes them play for each other. There is no way the Mets win a WS with Willie.. Its impossible!
So enough with the reevaluation.. Act like a top organization and make the necessary changes. We won’t forgive you if you don’t. David and Jose are only getting older and this is the last chance this team has. Next season is going to be a rebuilding year and thats fine with me. Lets roll the dice this season and see what happens
I think it is too early for all Met fans to begin to panic. At Matt said on his blog multiple times, this team just got done with a west coast trip against the best team in baseball at this point, and the hottest team in baseball and came away 3-3. Santana has been everything we all wanted thus far and I’m sure will continue to get better, Maine had a slow start but clearly showed us what he is capable of and Perez while erratic right now, has a long season to find his way, especially with Brian Schneider behind the plate. While I don’t always agree with Willie’s decisions how could we blame him for underperforming players or slow starts. Beside Ryan Church, nobody on the team has really heated up (beside Wright here and there). I think it is only a matter of time before the Mets start clicking on all cylinders (see the Dodgers game from Wednesday). Our lineup is too good, and once some of these players start breaking out of the funk it trickles down and our big hitters will begin to see some more fastballs. I don’t think that it is a lack of motivation, believe me these players are embarrassed for themselves from last year, but its ONLY early May and we are 2 games over .500 with about 4 of our best players slumping.
It is just too early to blame this all on Willie. We saw what he was capable of in 2006, we lead the NL East the entire year last year until the collapse and he is a proven winner. If by the all star break we are playing .500 ball which I completely doubt, then let’s discuss this, but as of now once these players break out we will be a force.
As you said, airjord, we went to the west coast and played 2 of the hottest teams in baseball and came away 3-3. that is .500 baseball in my book. they should have at least come bac 4-2, but they didn’t. that is the point being made here. this team should be better than .500, and for some reason it is not.
and what was it that willie showed us in 2006? that he was outmanaged by larussa and we lost to an 85 win team? and yes, we lead the east all of 2007 until the collapse. Are you seeing a pattern here? underachieving, perhaps. why is that. and how is willie a proven winner as a manager? he has won as a player and a coach, which is not the same thing.
I agree with you however 3-3 against the two best teams in the NL right now (including a series win against the DBacks, not to mention we put up 4 runs on B. Webb and beat Haren) is a pretty solid road trip for now, and its still really early. How could you say that Willie was out-managed by LaRussa when Heilman as he has done so many times this season left a changeup over the plate that lost us the series, not to mention bases loaded with Beltran at the plate in our last at bat and he struck out looking. Teams get hot in October, that’s what its all about. We didn’t lose to some chumps, we lost to the eventual World Series Champions.
Willie and the Mets ran away with it in 2006, we played first place baseball for the entire season until the end last year, and we’ve had a slow start this year and now everybody is overreacting and asking for his head. They’ve played .500 ball and are underachieving but our best players are slumping. What makes you think that they don’t want to play for him when all they’ve done is win with him until the end of last year. It’s just early is my point, and if we are playing .500 at the all-star break then year it’s time for a change, but for now while we are missing Pedro, Alou JUST got back with more protection for Beltran, and as Wright, Reyes and Beltran get back, we will continue to score runs and win.
BTW they did NOT win with him all year last year till the end. They were 15-9 in April, 19-9 in May, then 12-15, 13-14, 15-12 and 14-14 June through Sept. Only the fact the Phillies were horrendous at the start gave the team and apparently many fans a false sense of superiority, when in fact the team played mediocre baseball for a long, long time. The 71-71 record in their last 142 games speaks for itself. Mediocrity. This year it is just more of the same. It is highly unlikely to change. It would be helpful to turn over a large part of the roster, but that is impractical. Changing managers is much the easier move. Sometimes it takes making an example to give the rest of the troops a sense of urgency.
I think there is a misunderstanding and a miss use of the word PANIC..
Thats not what this is about.. We all know the Mets can play decent baseball with WILLIE. But decent baseball does not get this team to a World Series. He proved to us last season and the start of this season that he doesn’t know how to get the best from his players.
The reality is, that this is the last season for a large number of core players and if we are going to win a WS or contend that we to do it this season. Next year will be a transitional one.. Its now or never.
Are we losing because we have 4 slumping players, or do we have 4 slumping players because Willie’s hands-off style isn’t getting the most out of “his guys”? Given that you can include Reyes, Wright, Beltran and Delgado in that Gang of Four, I’d say that’s a bad foursome to have go on a simultaneous slump. For Willie to stay the course and give his players space to work things out, well, I suppose one could wonder whether we even need a manager. Just a couple of coaches for 1st and 3rd, the Jacket for trips to the mound, and the players can sort out the batting order amongst themselves.
This team has no sustained spark. The eye of the tiger is MIA. They are at a place where they no longer seem to believe in themselves, or care. Willie doesn’t go out there and fight when the umps screw up, so why should they struggle on the field? It’s just one game.
I just sometimes don’t understand that argument of “Willie’s hands-off style isn’t getting the most out of “his guys?”
Since Willie has been there, Reyes Wright and Beltran have all produced – Wright was second in MVP voting last year, Beltran was in the mix in 2006 and Reyes has been phenomenal except for the end of last year and the beginning of this year. Baseball is such a long season, people go through slumps its just the nature of the game. You can’t say he isn’t getting the best out of his players when they all have performed at expectations and above with Willie as manager.
airjord27- the problem is that when it comes to crunch time, that he doesn’t know how to bring his players to another level. He thinks that these KIDS should coach themselves. He needs to remember this is not 1974 and these kids grew up in a different world. Maybe when Willie was younger he had all the motivation and inspiration he needed but Reyes and Beltran are from a different part of the world or they didn’t have a coach or mentor to guide them. Willie needs to learn how to motivate and inspire.
Doc, do you need motivation to do your job well?
Don’t forget to mention that 2/5 of the rotation is injured… That is a lot! If everyone was playing like Church, I bet we’d be in first place and there would be none of this talk. Fact is we have injuries and have players not playing to their potential. I would say this has nothing to do with the manager and no matter who the manager was, we probably would have the same outcome. What can be done? I don’t know… the knee jerk reaction is to blame the manager like all the fans and the media which imflames this. I think the only thing that can be done at this point is to ride it out. It’s still pretty early and you gotta think that Reyes, Wright, and Beltran will get out of this funk soon.. They’re too good not to. I don’t know about Delgado… just take what you can get.
What is your definition of proven winner? Hasn’t Willie also been proven to be a “choker” ? And nobodys saying the only thing wrong with this team is Willie-so every1 can stop saying its unfair to blame Willie. He’s not the whole problem, but he’s a big part of it and he’s the easiest part to fix. It’s not about assessing blame it’s about getting better. I’ll admit I don’t know a ton about him as a manager, but Gary Carter seems like a good choice. He certsinly understands the NL style of play and how to use pitchers better than Willie and he always played hard. I think players would respect him. Booby V is my 1st choice but not gonna happen for many reasons, and as crazy as it sounds, I’d rather have Jose Valentin or Julio Franco than Willie. It may be a little soon for them, Valentin is still trying to come back after all, but seriously, they’d be better than Willie and the players would turn it up a notch
Matt: i know i may have been critical in the past with the polls. But i have to say what your saying here i could not have said better myself. Especially the last line of building instead of hoping things will get better. Firing Willie will not take away he did a good job his first two years. But it is looking like unless it gets better these next couple of weeks a change has to come.
Bobby V!!
Thing I liked about Bobby V was that the team respected him and had fun with him. He was one of the guys, yet still ran the team well. Also, who else would sneak back into the dugout with a mustache after being booted? Not Willie, he’d have to shave his.
These guys need an old fashioned hard nosed manager. Someone who will keep them on their toes. As long as it isn’t Pinella. I’d be happy to see Ken Oberkfell up here.
There’s always Backman…lol.
Who was responsible for the Down/Henderson thing last year? Not Willie, as I recall. That was a joke.
Best news of the week. That will make happy-hour that much more happy…since there is no point in taking the ride to Shea tonite. Enjoy the night guys.
Can anyone say when the last time a team with lots of “soft,”aging, DLed, and declining players ever won a WS?
Willie can’t change the character of this team. Only Omar can. By changing the mix of players.
I bet anyone the moon that if they fire Willie during the season (which I don’t think will happen) the team will continue to plod along at a pace considered to be “”underachieving”" no matter who they bring in. Firing Wilie is a band aid approach.
I like Ricciardi. He took full responsibility for the way the Blue Jays have played so far this year, absolving his manager. Omar won’t do that. He’ll first throw Willie under the bus.
I just don’t get some of you. Can you please explain one positive to keeping Willie as our manager. What does he offer this team? What are his positives?
lets do this.. lets start a list of all the reasons why Willie should be the manager of the Mets.
I can’t think of one,, so you guys please enlighten the Willie bashers .. I would love to see your point of view..
I don’t understand why you need someone to “enlighten” you about Willie Randolph? are you so eager to have someone in here that YOU know will do a better job. Just because you think he has better qualifications. What makes you an expert in picking baseball managers? Let me ask you are you a manager or a owner of a company? do you work for someone? if you are not an owner of a company and you do work for someone do you like your boss? if you don’t mayb, you should go to the hierarchy of the company you work in and tell them you know someone who would be a better manager. Willie was hired to do a job and unless you are some BASEBALL EXPERT in picking managers then let him do the job he was hired for and then see what happens.
wow that was a compelling argument! Since your going with the business model analogy. Let me ask you, If a company was the leader of a certain product and they hired all the top employees. And those employees starting producing on a level well below there abilities and caused the company to fall and ultimately fail. Would you fire all the employees or fire the person in charge of motivating them.
There are concrete facts and numbers that indicate Willies inability to manage this team to its potential. So I don’t need to be the GM of a ball club to make this argument.
If you believe that the Mets are only a .500 team then I guess I can see your point. But they are not. This team has unlimited potential and should get us to a WS.
Bad analogy. Delgado is not a top “”employee”" at this stage in his career. Neither is Pedro, Alou, El Duque or Castillo.
This team does not have unlimited potential. Not with Delgado in full decline. Not with El Duque and Pedro having pitched only a few innings so far this year. Not with Alou frequently on the DL.
You’re drinking the Omar koolaid.
Managers are not in companies to motivate, a managers responsibility is to make sure that you do your job correctly and help you when and if you ask for help. Willie is in charge of a lot of VETERAN ballplayers. They should NOT need motivation they should be PROFESSIONAL enough at this stage of their career where motivation should not be a factor. Their paychecks should be indicative enough of the status they should reflect and if they don’t they they don’t deserve the contract they were awarded.
OMAR “hired” these guys. If you want to find blame you blame the person that hired the “employees” not the manager that had no say as to who to sign.
I’m agreeing with FAH. I think many of the Mets fans here have overestimated the abilities of this team. Not only the guys he mentioned but theres Ollie Perez. I believe the experts at the beginning of the season weren’t sold on Perez and Maine but everybody here was saying how can you ignore 15 game winners. Maine had no real major league experience to say different but Ollie did, and with the way he’s been pitching, its saying that last season was his career year. He wont match that again. Your other two starters are Pelfrey and Figgy. These starters are not of an over .500 team. Add to that you have had only 4 reliable hitters in the lineup (Reyes, Church, Wright, and Beltran) which only two have produced and you have a team that doesnt look over .500 to me. I’m one who understands that there are some managers that can take a team so far but never able to get them over that last hurdle and that Willie might be one of them. But with the team that is out there, any manager is going to find it hard to win games and take the division.
It’s not that Willie is a great manager. It’s that firing him is worse than a band aid approach as it does nothing to address any underlying issues and lets the person most responsible for any team weaknesses off the hook.
I want the team I root for to improve. Not go through symbolic pointless gestures that don’t solve any issues.
If you want to fire anyone FIRE OMAR. he traded better pitches than the ones we have on the staff now. This is OMARS team NOT Willies, Willie manages the team OMAR HIRED THEM
And to answer the question as to who i would fire. I would fire the person and if I couldn’t fire the person I would “SIT HIS ASS DOWN” and find someone that would do the job better in addition I would fire the person that signed him say hello OMAR
Well, the best way to tell if it is the players/team make up ratrher than the manager is to fire the manager. If they continue to underachieve, then can Omar this offseason.
LOL, I can bet you if they do fire Willie and a new manager fails to improve the team’s fortunes, then the Willie bashers will just say they hired the wrong manager again.
In the meantime, you will have fired a decent man due to flawed reasoning.
Sorry, I for one would want Omar gone if they continue to go sideways after the WIllie-era is over. I know you blame Omar and want him gone, but you have to face the reality that Willie going will have to be step one in any process that ends with Omar getting the axe. The Wilpons aren’t going to do it in reverse order.
Heck, even if they did, to be fair to a new GM, they’d have to allow him to pick a new manager. Any way you slice it, the Willie “Brains” Randolph era is coming to an end.
gipper, believe it or not at this moment I’m only about 80% there on wanting Omar fired. I’m willing to wait till at least the end of the season to see how he addresses any weaknesses (ie, Delgado) and how he does in the June draft, and whether or not he gives some of the Bingo kids a shot, and whether or not the team makes the playoffs. All these things will solidify in my mind whether or not I think he should be fired.
The problem I have with all the emphasis on Wilie, is not so much that I think he should stay, but that I think it’s barking up the wrong tree and wallpapers over what are th real issues.
But I agree with you that any Omar firing would involve Willie being fired as well. That’s fine with me.
And BTW, I never wanted them to hire Willie in the first place. They hired him for all the wrong reasons. But I really believe the team’s main weaknesses the last two years are almost all on Omar, not on Willie.
gipper — ESPN just named Oakland #1 in this week’s power rankings. Here’s a team with a much smaller payroll than the Mets who just traded away their number one starter over the winter and now they are #1.
I think Beane is a terrific GM who understands so much more than Omar does about how to put together a team with heart, desire, and good chemistry. And he’s a much better talent evaluator than Omar.
This team is built to be a winner. Omar has done fine. Theres something else going on. Omar signed Alou to complement an already good offense. He knows Alou isn’t durable. He didn’t sign him to be a clean up hitter or our savior. its not omars fault everyone seems to disappear instead of step up when he goes down. Thats the difference. Remember, the Phils kept rolling when Utley was down a month late in the year. With these Mets, its like everythings gotta be perfect-a player goes down for a while and so does the team. In 06 they kept battling, and since then they just lie down.
The solution is right in front of your faces. Move Keith Hernandez out of the booth and let him play first base as a player manager.
i don’t get it JUST GET RID OF DELGADO, he’s not in a “slump”
slump’s don’t last for a year.
this is Omars fault.
get X-man back.
he only thing that willie does thats questionable is take his pitchers out too early.
right?
I agree that Delgado is a balck hole, but:
1.) how do you write off that contract?
2.) Why would the Pirates trade one of their few bright spots? And even if they would, they will want young pitching. Who would you send to them for him, given out own needs for young pitching and a relatively bare cupboard?
…yeah, i know. i just want X back.
however, we can write off the contract, it’s not our money.
put marlon, easly, even alou, or carp or tatis at first for now.
Willie Randope just said on m&md that church wont be in the 2 spot and is giving it back to castillio….. way to make sure we get 2 outs in the start of the first inning …. that alone is woth giving randope the exit sign i really hate willie as the mets manager
guys, im all for willies exit …. but on the other hand, jerry manuel managing this team doesnt excite me
I agree you can’t give an interim job if that is what you do to anyone on that bench right now. These guys like Manuel are to blame aswell. They are suppose to be helping Willie, they are part of the problem. Also Rick Peterson can’t survive another manager firing. He has to be out the door aswell. Clean em all out!
hey the astros once brought Larry Dierker out of the broadcast booth to manage. Hey Gary Cohen want to manage ? :)
unfortunately, nothing will change between now and then and I would almost guarantee that willie doesn’t last the season. if these “conversations” are really going on in the upper offices, then you can count on it.
It’s too bad, because I agree with many of the above posters. Willie may very well not be in the organization come mid-June. I don’t have much confidence that this team can consistently play outstanding baseball.
I say “it’s too bad”, because, I like Willie as a person AND a manager. Actually, I wish that Willie had more “Willie type” guys on the team. The toughest thing for me as a fan isn’t watching .500 baseball. It’s rooting for guys (not all but many in my opinion) that have lost interest / passion in the game. I’ve typically made it to 10 games at least a year, and haven’t made one yet this year.
Luis Castillo and Delgado at times make me want to watch re-runs of the Office at times during the Mets game… something I haven’t done yet, but am close to doing.
I am definitely in the minority as a Mets fan and on this forum when I say this: I would much rather watch a bunch of less talented players who hustle and play fundamentally all the time that end up not winning the world series, than a group of guys that doesn’t hustle, forget to cover first – which is pretty bad when you’re the first baseman – and ask for ever 3rd day off while your team is losing and after signing a 4 year contract you had no business getting.
Winning isn’t the end all for me when I watch sports… although it’s awfully nice.
I should note, the Mets aren’t a group of guys that don’t care… perhaps just a couple that don’t keep their effort levels up … but I worry more that they are becoming that rather than them winning the division.
For this reason, if there isn’t an increase in passion, I would agree Willie might have to depart.
I am surprised that so many people criticize Willie for his perceived “hands-off” approach, without factoring in:
A) Omar wanted Manny Acta as Manager and has never bothered to hide that from the players or Willie.
B) When Willie tried to bark at Reyes and discipline the petulant SS, assistant GM Tony B. (acting at Omar’s behest) ran into the club house to tell Jose “not to worry” (reported by Madden in Daily News on several occasions—and if Jose’s ego is that fragile that he needed that, god help us all.)
C) Delgado (rightly or wrongly) judged Omar to be pandering and Tony B. a buffoon the first time the GM tried to land him; Delgado was intelligent enough to say all is well when he wound up here, but its no secret that he does not like Omar, does not like Tony, and does not like NYC. His best friend on the team was Shawn Green. In light of that, should Omar have relentlessly pursued a man who has no respect for his GM and little desire to be in the biggest market in sports?
Willie is not blameless, but does anyone else think that Omar’s Tony’s actions may have eroded Willie’s authority a wee bit? An amazing amount of info is chewed to the bone on this site. Did I just miss the discussion of Omar’s heavy handed interference? (Not trying to be sarcastic, truly want to know if I missed this and am flogging dead horse).
I agree to an extent that Willie was/is being undermined by Omar and his errand boy Bernazard. That said, Willie’s has many faults of his own, especially his reluctance to praise a young player when he is doing well, yet turns a blind eye to certain vets (cough cough Delgado) dogging it on the field.
His relationship with Reyes seemingly blew up in Philly last summer when Reyes did not run out a ground ball. Willie was right in chastising Reyes for it, but chose to not do the same for Julio Franco when he did the same thing in the ninth inning of that same game.
IMO, Willie has NO credibility in that clubhouse. If this was a food chain, he’d fall somewhere between the clubhouse toilet attendant and that bat boy.
Omar is getting no heat so far.. and he should. That he NOT ONCE addressed the team’s collapse, which was mostly caused by uninspired, bored, self-entitled play. All he chimed was the party line of “it was only two weeks..” No, Omar, the signs could seen in JUNE.