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When John Maine plunked Felipe Lopez with the first pitch of the game last night (in response to the Nationals’ bush-league cheering of the night before), a message was sent: don’t mess with the Mets.
As Regis Courtemanche stated earlier today, the timing was right and the action appropriate. Further, Maine’s pitch that “slipped” established solidarity — an “I got your back” mentality that all championship teams exhibit.
For too long, fans and pundits have criticized the Mets for being lifeless, unmotivated, and uncaring. Manager Willie Randolph has been targeted as responsible for the team’s supposed apathy. However, a pitcher does not knock down a batter in defense of a demoted teammate unless there is team unity and a bit of “fire in the belly”.
If the Mets go on a roll, we may look back at this incident as the spark, and a turning point in the season.
I didn’t see it, but maybe we are reading too much into this? Do we actually know he did this on purpose?
Yes to both.
Thank goodness the umpire didn’t get involved.
It was no big deal, it was expected and it was
good old school baseball for a change. It was
even good that the Nats didn’t respond. They
knew what it was about, no answer was needed.
i saw it a couple of times… you know.. just to make sure it’s real… i’m 99.9999999999997% sure it’s on purpose. good for Maine, backing up his teammates
I agree, but I don’t know if that’s going to be a turning point. Do they need a turning point or do they just need to get as healthy as possible and play good baseball? Then again, maybe that IS a turning point in and of itself.
I don’t think the HBP is a turning point. It did make me proud. Then again, Maine usually does.
Good post AMS.
i know turning point or not…. done and done. let’s move on. Winning a couple of games in a roll would be a good turning point
Lopez looked a little miffed at Maine. Didn’t he realize that was going to happen?
Also, the faith that Maine had to plunk the lead-off guy knowing that it wouldn’t be a problem says alot about his make-up.
If it does indeed become the “turning point” of this season, how ironic would it be that John Maine, possibly the most easy going member of the team, was the one that delivered it.
Maine is a pretty fierce competitor. Do you ever notice how he never doffs his cap after a start where he gets pulled mid-inning? He’s too pissed that he didn’t get out of the inning.
I love John Maine!
I also love him knocking down Jeff Kent last week in LA after kent argued a strike with the umpire.
Agreed. I also loved his start against AZ when he had absolutely no command but kept battling to finish with a quality start. The highlight… Micah Owings worked out a walk and the next shot was Maine on the mound, seething with anger at himself. Although the shot was taken in mid-sentence you could clearly read his lips saying “…the F***-ing pitcher.”
Can’t argue with you, Joe. It’s the “easy going” ones you gotta watch out for.
Can’t wait until Hole Camels tries something like this.
You would think that Hamels realizes his importance as the staple of the Phillies rotation and not go beaning batters to create a bench clearing scenario…but move things to a bar instead of the ballpark and you never know.
The three operative words in you post are, “You would think.” Yes, one would think that Hamels recognizes this. But, one never knows. Would Brett Myers do this? I’m pretty sure Jamie Moyer wouldn’t.
I didn’t think the pitch was in enough to determine whether it was intentional or not. Lopez could have easily avoided it, which is not something you usually say about a pitch when it’s intentionally thrown at somebody.
I think people are getting a bit carried away here. I mean, turning point in the season? What affect is this going to have at any time in the future? The Mets went on to do what they usually do during yesterday’s game: leave men on base. Unless Maine hitting Lopez will cause our hitter’s to start smacking the ball with RISP, this whole thing means nothing.
But I thought heart and fire meant everything?
Good food for thought.
Does attitude play a part in baseball? Don’t know. I have been a part of some winning teams and losing teams, even coached some. Talent means everything, but does talent bring attitud? I would like to think so, but I ultimately don’t know.
I do know that I would prefer to see my team show some cojones and lose than show no cojones and lose. I still hate that Brad Penny situation.
If we were to indulge and say that attitude plays a part, then maybe John Maine’s plunking is showing signs that the winning they have been doing this home stand is a sign that they are moving in the right direction. Time will tell.
Not far enough inside? Lopez jumped backwards and it still hit him squarely mid thigh. I think it was pretty clearly a beaning.
Don’t mess with the Mets bitch!! =]
Tina, you usually post good comments, but I must point out that that is your best…..classic.
Stop it. Please. Enough is enough, the Mets beat the lowly Nats and they’ve had enough “turning points” to circle themselves 100 times. No more talk, no more excuses, just go out there and beat crap teams like the Nats and Reds and compete and execute against teams like the DBacks and Phillies, that’s all I’m asking for.
Mets are 8-4 against teams with a below .500 record (including the Pirates who are 19-20)
They are 12-13 against everyone else.
Midtown, I think you are missing the point, while I agree with you that one play is hardly a “turning point” in this marathon of a season, it shows that Maine “gets it.” He backed figgy and the rest of his teamates, and that is important for a leader to do. If that was pedro he certainly would have done the same thing. Did he intentionally hit him? perhaps not, but at the least he meant to brush him back and that is a statement as well, but based on the post game interviews I think there is no doubt he intentionally hit him. He went with the classic “it slipped” line, which has always been baseballs unrwitten rule for “yeah I plunked him.” I remember turk wendell and sean estes saying the exact same thing, pedro and clemens for that matter too.
The play was a young pitcher understading what is going on and backing his teammates. As Willie always states we need to pick one anothe up, good sign last night. That being said it was just one play, but hopefully it leads to more like it.
Agreed dave. Im pretty sure he plunked him intentionally but i hardly think it is a turning point. I liked AMS post earlier that we have yet to feild the healthy 2008 mets that we have on paper yet. I think that if anything would be a turning point as we can truly see what a healthy club can accomplish. Not making excuses for injuries because every club has em.
I get you there, Dave. I’m a huge fan of players showing passion, and not bending over and taking it from a bunch of punks like the Nats. What Maine did, intentional or unintentional, was nice to see. And it wouldn’t hurt to see some more of that, from other players, throughout the season.
Here are my main problems, though:
1) To call this a turning point is getting WAY ahead of ourselves. This is a long season, and the Nats are subpar at best. And hitting a guy on the leg isn’t going to be the reason we win the next few series.
2) Fire and emotion are not this team’s problems. This team’s problem is the fact that they CAN NOT HIT. We’re talking bases loaded, no outs, and walking away with one run AT MOST. That’s disgusting, and is the reason we’re hovering around .500. Hitting Lopez is so inconsequential when it comes to this team’s real problem, which is not being able to hit when it counts.
I love that Maine did this, especially to the leadoff guy. And I really like the pitcher he is becoming.
I love what he did to the next 20 or so batters even more.
Nice start, maybe its contagious.
I loved it – Maine plunked him, and then sat the Nats down 1 – 2 – 3.
I wouldn’t kill Willie, either, to go out and get ejected every once and a while though. You can say all you want about players being adults and professionals, but some times the manager needs to stir the pot.
Don’t tell me there is NO correlation between Bobby Cox getting ejected more than any other manager, and the Braves winning the division for a dozen years in a row…
there is a correlation with him having a GREAT pitching staff most of those years, and a VERY good hitting team
Sure, pitching and hitting, but you also hear just about EVERYBODY who’s played for Cox say they’d pretty much take a bullet for him. That’s gotta count for something.
yeah i’m sure cox getting tossed made smoltz, maddux and glavine HOF pitchers. absolutely. nothing to do with their talent, mechanics, and focus.
Thanks Metro, that was more to my point
…and more to the point, would anyone take a bullet for Randolph?
I think what happened last night says more about Maine than it does the Mets as a whole. There are too many moving parts in the game of baseball to be able to win a game, season or championship on “guts”. There’s also more than one way to win.
Everyday there is another post…blah blah blah we will see this event as being the mets turning point of the season.
You are looking for phantom turning points, stop it. Maine did a good thing at the right time end of discussion.
On the counter point, every day there is another phantom ‘reason the Mets suck’ or ‘reason to fire Willie’ that people point out.
Is this one big joke? After the dancing the Mets did on the field, in the dugout, in the on deck circle, and all over the field, they are pissed because a team was chanting from the dugout? Does anyone else find that ridiculous?
Look I’m the biggest fan of the Mets there is, but as a team, they lost the ability to complain about chanting, dancing or showing a team up years ago. Suck it up.
ummm I think most of us have said that its different thatn the dancing “all over the field”
This year, when a home run, the dancing or “elbow bumps” are done at the top step of the dugout, pitches also are likely not being thrown. If they win a game, they gather at home, like EVERY TEAM DOES
What Washington did was bush league, this is a major league game and you are cheering like 13 year old girls?
Its a totally different thing
while I kinda agree, the true turning point of this season (if there will be one) will be when Reyes & Wright return to their allstar form.
It was painful watching Keppenger and Encarnacion outplay them this weekend.
However not as painful as it mustve been for Dusty Bakers toothpick
Maine is the man.
1.This guy had one bad start all year (in his first start).
2.His ERA shows what he is capable of.
3.Really is getting better every time he goes out there.
4.Starting to throw a change-up much more effectively to fool opposing batters.
5.*Stands up for his teammates.
6.Shows emotion when he messes up, because he knows he can do better.
7. So far, he may be pitching BETTER than Santana.
Shows emotion when he messes up, true definition of a great player right there. Come on.
My point being he shows emotion , unlike others who walk back to the dugout as if “its ok.”
Willie does that a lot, which is my only pet peeve about him.
The only time I’ve seen Willie show emotion was when Heilman messed up and Willie threw his cup of water against the cooler.
good job by maine, and randolph if he had anything to do with it. but, if a little chanting can throw a team off their game, then this might be a turning point ,as every team that they play will start gettin after them. how bad will they fall apart when chipper starts screamin “we want a pitcher, not a belly itcher!” from the dugout?
I doubt Nelson will hear it from New Orleans, so it doesn’t matter.
Turning point, shmurning point….Maine hit Lopez, there’s nothing more to it.
The Mets still struggled to hit with RISP, they still made some errors in the field and looked sloppy at points.
“I got your back” typically means — you’re gonna get a fist full of teeth handed to you if we decide to take this any further.
2 seconds after Lopez gets plunked, Reyes is smiling and joking with him as he got to 2nd base…..and botches a tailor-made double play ball, having to settle for the 6-3 putout.
Definite over-analysis of this. It was nothing more than Maine doing what he felt was needed in the situation.
2 seconds after Lopez gets plunked, Reyes is smiling and joking with him as he got to 2nd base…..and botches a tailor-made double play ball, having to settle for the 6-3 putout.
I don’t think it was really Lopez they were mad at…I could be wrong, but I think most of the people who were chanting were bench players or injured players….even coaches i think! Wasn’t Lenny Harris even joining in?
Listen, just cause they hit him as a “message” doesn’t mean Reyes can’t talk to him
Listen, just cause they hit him as a “message” doesn’t mean Reyes can’t talk to him.
I’m not saying that he can’t talk to him — but we’re making a pretty big deal out of something we already knew.
Maine’s a guy who’ll go out and give his all when he’s out on the hill.
I didn’t see any extra pep in the Mets’ step last night. It was great to see Church (of course) Schneider, Alou, swing it though.
14 hits and 6 runs….2 were largely due in part to Kearns’ horrendous outfield play.
It’s time to start getting some of these stranded baserunners in. That’s when we know the Mets have turned a corner…..not because Maine plunked someone with the 1st pitch of a game.
If anything that happened yesterday will come to be viewed as a turning point, I think it might be the return to meritocracy exhibited by cutting Sosa and Figueroa. For once, the Mets rewarded performance by keeping Smith despite his having options, and also went with the best option for a replacement starter in Vargas despite the roster implications.
It’s about time this team stops making excuses for underperformance and puts the best and most deserving players on the field.
possibly the best post in this thread
The Mets have had more “turning points” than the war in Iraq.
Let’s just see what happens, shall we?
Don’t think that pitch will get Jose Reyes to remember how to hit or make Castillo the player he was 4 years ago or improve the bench or….
Probably just a coincidence –
Maine has been on fire through the first half of 2007, the end of 2007, and now the first quarter of 2008.
Who was around the dugout at those times? That’s right, Big Pelf.
Remember all the Santana-Pedro “conpetition” everyone was speculating would happen? Well its really happening with Maine. He’s always joking around with Pelfrey after innings and especially after one of them gets a hit.
Keep at it guys. You both are quickly becoming Mets’ fans favs
Pelf is a fan fav? when did this happen?
Hahahah
wait, pelf is getting credit for maine’s great start?
they just joke around about hits. maine spanks pelfrey all over the dugout when it comes to pitching.
How can you look at an event that just happened and christen it as a possible turning point for the season?
Because we’ve been hingry for one for the past 162 games. So whenever anything that resembles an opportunity to turn the mentality around an gain some momentum sufaces, we jump on it.
But I do think Maine’s retaliation and cutting Fig/Sosa does represent a change in the Mets Brass/Coaching behavior. As opposed to ignoring issues moving on status quo. That’s a .500 record mentality. THis at least shows a break from that mentality.
But why not plunk Dukes? He was the one starting the chants.
because then he would have shot somebody
lmfao. and dmitri young wouldve been right behind him
Now that was funny! (Or tragically true, I’m not sure)
sorry, i don’t see how this says anything broad about the character of this club. it shows that john maine is a stand up guy and a competitor who understands the code of the game. three or four pitchers had a chance monday night to drill a national after figgy left the game and they didn’t.
if yesterday was a turning point, it was because sosa isn’t around anymore to set close games ablaze.
don’t get me wrong, i LOVE that maine plunked lopez and put this story to bed, but let’s not attribute any false significance here.
^ Bing.
this crap has been studied. there is little to no correlation between getting into brawls or other stupid crap and winning.
name the studies, please.
that’s something i would love to read.
Turning point?
Turning point?!
If the Mets lost 10 in a row starting today, would we look back on Maine plunking Lopez as a turning point? If they win 10 in a row, does that make it a turning point? Did the Mets get a three-run bonus for hitting Felipe Lopez? I didn’t think so.
I don’t know how many times last year and this year I read here about something being a turning point, and it never was.
So until there is actually a TURN, let’s just wait until the end of the season to figure when the point of the turn was.