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In the eighth inning of yesterday’s loss to the Nationals, Jose Reyes was thrown out while trying to run from first to third, incorrectly thinking he could outrun the shortstop, Cristian Guzman.
Willie Randolph, on the play:
“I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a play like that before…Jose is always going to try to be aggressive and take the extra base. We’ve seen him do that on ground balls to the left side, but again, that was a little bit unusual. But the end result is he can’t get thrown out in a situation like that. But like I said, if he makes it, then it’s a great play and we are not talking about it…Again, that was a little unusual. It was a gamble play.”
…when i saw him running to third, i was speechless…no part of that effort looked like it was going to succeed…
With the Mets down by a run in the bottom of the ninth inning, Carlos Delgado was up with Carlos Beltran on third. Delgado lined a shot to, once again, Aaron Boone, who caught it and doubled up Beltran on a quick throw to third. Game over.
Beltran, after the game:
“I’m going on contact; that’s the sign we got. As soon as he hit that ball, I just broke in. That’s what happens when you go on contact. You’re going to have a chance to get doubled up.”
Willie Randolph, on calling the play:
“With the third baseman playing off third base, we thought we’d go ‘contact’ there. The worst thing that could happen happened.”
…i can’t blame beltran for this one if that was the call from the dugout, but when things are going wrong, it seems like nothing can go right…there definitely seems to be a lack of focus with this team right now, and it needs to get resolved as soon as possible…
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Given how all Delgado usually does is tap weakly to second base, I guess I can’t kill Willie for the contact thing. As for Reyes, it’s just another symptom of the overall fog of boneheadness that Willie has let envelop this team of the past year. Enough is enough.
I left work a bit early–worked through lunch to do this–so, I was at my local lunch place. It’s a very good thing I didn’t have a beer in my hand when I saw that happen, as it would have gone through a wall.
Part of me wants to ask, “Why were you going on contact with one out?” Then again . . . another part of me wants to ask the same bloomin’ thing.
See above. They wanted to make sure Beltran could score on one of Delgado’s patented weak ground balls.
Going on contact with one out is the “accepted” strategy. The thinking is you don’t go on contact with no outs because you’ve still got two more outs to play with, so a sac fly or ground ball can still score the run. You go on contact with one out because if the runner on third doesn’t go on contact, hesitates on a ground ball and consequently doesn’t score, you leave yourself in a situation where you then need a base hit to score the run. (Obviously you go on contact with two outs.)
It’s the right call from the dugout. Just horrible luck that the one thing that can go wrong did go wrong.
See where I posted below to discover why it’s not the right move to go on contact with Delgado up and Rauch pitching.
Short version, Delgado is less likely to hit into a ground ball and Rauch is less likely to surrender a GB (both are relative to the average MLB Player).
These are the kinds of plays that happen when a team is struggling, especially the offense. Guys try to do too much, like trying for 3 run HRs with no on on base and an 0-2 count, or stupidly trying for an extra base.
Either just a brain fart, or no confidence that the guys behind you will come through with a hit.
I still adamently disagree with Castillo bunting in that situation anyway. a hit and run, or even straight steal, was a better idea.
Yesterday’s game was unbelievable, we just couldn’t win. We get $crewed by guys being overagressive, we get $crewed by guys lolly gagging. At this point of the season, haven’t these guys realized that you can’t “buy” a win. Regardless of how good the team is on paper you have to go and play the game. To quote one of my alltime favorites lines:
“”This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains.” Think about that for a while.”
~Nuke LaLoosh
Going on contact is the RIGHT call there. There’s already one out, so it’s your last chance to score without a hit. If Delgado hits a grounder there, with the infield halfway, Beltran would have had to be off on the pitch. Plus, with the third baseman back, Beltran already had a big lead. So if he froze to wait and see if it’s a groundball, he’s doubled off anyway.
Baseball’s a funny game sometimes. You do everything right (hit a sharp line drive) and it all goes in the tank. If Delgado hits that ball 3 feet to the left, he’s the hero…
I’m sorry, but a contact play with the tying run on 3rd with 1 out in the 9th is dumbfoundingly stupid. A fly ball ties the game. Hell, a “weak grounder to 2nd” probably ties the game! Just an abysmal call by an abysmal manager.
A fly ball tying the game isn’t the issue, because if you go on contact on a fly ball, you still have time to go back and tag up.
Going on contact only affects balls handled by infielders. If you don’t go on contact, you’ll NEVER score on any groundball to an infielder. Then if Delgado hits a groundball somewhere and Beltran is standing on third base watching it, everyone would be just as angry.
What happened stinks, but that’s how it works out. The Mets made the call every other team would make, and the worst case scenario played out.
I was at the game yesterday and three thoughts come to mind.
1) I thought that the Mets would get a no-hitter through 9, and with their luck, not score a run, so technically no no hitter.
2) When I saw Reyes break to third I thought it was an awful play and it reminded me of the attempted steal of third base last year in September against the Phillies, a game I was also at.
3) The double play that ended the game was just a microcosm of the series and game yesterday. I can’t blame anyone on that one. Willie was trying to make something happen with the offense needing a spark. If that ball is two feet in front of Boone, the game is tied. That’s the way it goes sometimes.
Yesterday I was all pissed off over the running “blunders”…but with a little sleep I now have come to the conclusion that while both plays turned out bad…they did not cost us the game…in fact both plays were the only shots we had to win the game, without the Mets still only got 5 hits.
Also as pissed as I am at this team right now….with the exception of the 2 former Nats and 1 former Twin (ok and Maine) the other 22 guys have played pretty terrible so far and the Mets are still above .500 and only 2 games back.
I smell a streak where they win 14 out of 15 in the month of June when everyone gets super-hot at the same time…this is a streaky (and oft-injured) team…who the manager will be is the question.
I have always looked at things in that manner. I’m the most optimistic person/fan that you could meet. However, as of yesterday I think that I’ve become synical because of the recent experiences with this team and the fans. It’s rubbed off. So where I would have agreed with you 100% on this subject yesterday, I can’t think like that anymore. I keep hoping they’ll go on a streak but it just never happens.
cynic* – sorry.
I can’t blame either Jose or Beltran for making outs there.
In Jose’s case, no one was covering third. It took a perfect throw from Kearns and an unbelievable catch from Guzman to make that play. It was an amazing play, just like the catch Willie Harris made in the outfield. If he doesn’t make that catch, maybe the Mets win the game. Willie Harris has killed the Mets with his defense two years in a row. Those are the breaks. Stuff like that happens.
And Beltran was told to break on contact which was the right move.
What bothered me more was Delgado’s inability to get a fly ball there to score the tying run. He’s hopeless with men on base.
I remember last year against the Braves, Delgado hits what would have been either a game tying, or a walk-off HR, only to have it robbed by Harris
I’ll never forget that HR also. I was on a Braves forum right after that game and I asked them what’s the story with Harris and is he always such a great defender? And they said, no, he never does stuff like that.
Now he makes a catch that’s in a class with Ron Swoboda’s. .
Damn, that Harris guy has stolen two games from the Mets. But kudos to him.
And correction above — it was Boone at first who threw to Guzman.
I dont blame reyes for doing what he did nor beltran as well. They both were trying to make things happen and score a run. It was good strategy in my opinion and I like the agrressive stance. I blame the game solely on delgado as I usually do because he has never gotten a big hit the past 2 yrs. The guy is a lost cause in big situations. Getting rid of Delgado and Heilman will only make this team better
I think Reyes cannot take that risk there. If it’s the early innings then it’s not that big of a risk, but in the eighth inning, that just isn’t a good risk.
I can’t stand the way some in the media are calling Reyes’ decision a running “blunder.” It was not. I agree with you it was a good aggressive decision that I would tell him to make every time. Guzman made an unbelievable play on his end to get Reyes out.
Yes, Delgado didn’t get it done.
It was not Beltrans fault, and the media heads who are supposed to be experts can’t even understand it.
I don’t fault willie for sending him on contact, with delgado predictably hitting grounders into the shift it was the correct move.
But, with the collective slump I would have had Reyes try to steal, then maybe bunt him to third. Isn’t that one reason why Castillo is in the 2 hole, his ability to take pitches for Reyes? With Reyes on 2nd and 1 out, would anyone have felt a big hit coming? I may feel different if wright or anyone else was hitting.
Reyes play was stupid, and why didn’t he slide?
Agree with you about the steal and bunt. But then Flores has a pretty good arm. So I can go either way there.
he didn’t slide because it was too early to slide. He was dead by 15 feet.
I disagree. If he slides feet first he is in easy.
I have a question about he rules. Does a defensive player need to tag the runner, or is his body count. It does not seem like Jose got tagged, rather, he ran into the defensive players ass?
The thing that really upset me is that Jose did not slide.
If reyes tried stealing and got caught the fans wouldve went crazy and willie would be getting blamed for the loss. Obviously goin to 3rd wasnt the right play either but it was aggressive and if he wouldve made it and we won willie would be getting all the kudos
You may be partially correct, but Willie will never get kudos. He is criticized after wins, too.
I don’t have a real problem with Reyes’s aggressive move either, so long as he was going hard to second. I had WFAN only and Howie made it sound as if Reyes only really turned on the afterburners when he hit second.
One other thing that might be relevant: I read in the Washington Post that Jimmy Rollins had successfully pulled off that play and Guzman remembered it when he saw Reyes coming to 2nd. It’s the kind of play that works on surprise and Guzman’s earlier experience might have cost Reyes.
Getting Beltran going on contact is the right call. The team hadn’t hit all day and a ground ball off Delgado’s bat is hardly unexpected. That was just tough luck.
I left out the bit that Rollins had pulled off that play in a game against Washington (Can’t provide link to Wash. Post article. Not sure why)
Delgado should go on contact. Alou should go on contact. Schneider should go on contact. Robin Ventura, John Olerud, and Mike Piazza should all go on contact. Why is one of the most successful baserunners in the history of the game going on contact in a situation like that?
Still, it was an aggressive call. So I can’t fault Willie too much. But still doesn’t fully compute.
Danny, look at my posts further down the page. You’ll see why it doesn’t “fully compute” to automatically go on contact in that particular situation.
you are all crazy – both plays were terrible.
castillo should not have been bunting in the first place, reyes should have had a chance to steal first. reyes going for 3rd there was purely idiotic.
delgado should have been bunting over to the open third base side. tying run scores and the winning run is probably on first. far better percentage play then hoping he can hit a fly ball, especially when he is struggling. even with two strikes.
also, why didn’t beltran try to go back to third, or at least try?
LACKADAISICAL BASERUNNING all around.
dykstraw – I agree with you completely, except for questioning why Beltran didn’t try to go back to third – he was out by 50 feet, and it was bang bang. Delgado should have bunted, Castillo should have been told to hit and run, or Reyes tries to steal. It is crazy to give up an out with the bunt at that point. Why Delgado didn’t bunt is beyond me. I’ve always supported WR, but you have to wonder if he has control of this team. If he did, he would tell Carlos to push the bunt to third, and with Beltran not being held on, it is a tie game. If Delgado gets on base, even better. If they fire WR, I would love to see a mgr who employs the hit and run, run and hit, squeeze play, wheel play, and shows a little creativity during the game. Not only is it better baseball, in my opinion, but much more entertaining.
sometimes, it’s worth it to try, even if it’s just to shut lunatics like me up.
sometimes guys drop the ball. was he not watching earlier in the game? imagine if someone DID drop the ball and he was out anyway?
this team, as always, assumes too much.
If Reyes tries to steal second and is out then we have a much lower chance of winning the game. You have to make the sure play and bunt him to second. I was thinking Delgado should have tried to bunt the first pitch to get the tying run in but after he had a strike on him I was pulling for him to hit a HR to win the game. There’s no guarentee that if the mets tie the game up there that they win in extra’s so I have no problem with letting Delgado hit in that spot and try and win the game.
I’m surprised Castillo and Wright jogging on the pop up Kearns dropped isn’t getting more play. I know Willie said in the post that he didn’t think he would’ve scored, but we all know there’s no way he would ever say otherwise. He did manage to take a shot at Wright (appropriately) but what about no knees taking a stroll?
+1 for Ryno, that effort was pretty weak, albeit common around the league on such popups.
Contact, Willie?
One of the fastest baserunners and the most skilled baserunner on your team (Beltran) and you have him go on contact with one out in the bottom of the ninth and Alou sitting on the bench in case Faildozer Delgado doesn’t come through. Willie, what the heck are you thinking??
Castillo and Wright not running hard was inexcusable, and that IMO was the worst mistake of the day.
If Reyes slides feet first he is probably safe.
Sending Beltran on contact is the right call, and you can’t fault Delgado for smoking a line drive right at somebody. It happens.
Agreed on the first point, and I posted about that today.
Why is Beltran going on contact in the 9th the right move?
He is so fast that any ball that gets out of the infield will score the tying run.
Also Beltran is such a skilled baserunner that I would not want to force him to run. I would rather he uses his excellent skills to read the play properly and score if he feels he can make it.
Just another Willie blunder.
No, the idea is if the groundball is to an infielder he’ll be able to score. Even Reyes would be thrown out if he waits to see if the ball hits the ground first before he starts heading home. What I like is the “I would rather he uses his excellent skills to read the play properly and score if he feels he can make it.” How long do you think it takes for a groundball to reach an infielder that you think he has time to read the play and judge whether he could score or not? Pretty much every manager would call to go on contact there, team’s closer on the mound, bottom of the order coming up, namely the catcher who you’re reluctant to pinch hit for, a hitter that has a good chance to groundout weakly. It really is a no-brainer.
is it a no brainer? Why are we assuming a ground ball from Delgado?
Since the start of last season, Delgado has been less likely than your average ML player to hit a grounder. Also, since the shift was on (at least that’s what I gathered from others’ accounts of the 9th yesterday, if that’s not the case then obviously this point is moot) Beltran could have taken a bigger than normal lead, which makes the notion of running on contact even more ridiculous.
I would play the percentages and expect Delgado to K or hit a fly ball. Also, don’t forget that you had “hit machine” Moises Alou sitting on the bench to pitch hit for Castro in case Delgado had failed.
I think you have to against “the book” and a “no brainer” decision and stay out of a double play there. You still had one more HUGE bullet to use, Alou, why pin everything on Delgado, a player that has shown that he is on the decline.
That’s why it was another blunder from “auto-pilot” Willie!
Mudvillenine, and the rest of you folks that consider running on contact a “no brainer”, would you like even more evidence that it was a silly decision to send Beltran on contact?
Consider this, since the start of last season Jon Rauch has been inducing ground balls at a very low rate. Roughly 32.5%, league average is around 43.6%. This year, granted it is a VERY small sample, Rauch has been surrendering Line Drives at almost DOUBLE the rate of an avg. ML pitcher (almost 40%).
Maybe if the manager of the Mets did some homework before an important 4 game series, he might have a better handle on the opposing closer’s tendencies!
Last thing, why would you have ANY reservations about pinch hitting for castro in yesterday’s 9th inning?
First you extend the game, THEN you worry about not having a backup catcher on the bench the rest of the game.
Fire Willie!
Go Mets!