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Prior to last night’s game, Willie Randolph told reporters that he talked yesterday with Mets COO Jeff Wilpon about the team’s lackluster play, adding:
“We talked about the team and how we can get better…We haven’t swung the bats collectively as a team and, once we start doing that, it will take pressure off our bullpen and starting pitching.”
…to which i am sure jeff must have thought, ‘Hmm, where i have heard that before.’…
In the Bergen Record, Bob Klapisch suggests that Randolph is quickly turning in to Captain Queeg, adding:
“The manager spoke to his team for 35 minutes and emerged with an assessment of the Mets’ play that can be described, at best, as incorrect. At worst, Randolph was being delusional…Randolph can’t affect repairs if he doesn’t acknowledge there’s something fundamentally wrong with the Mets. To do that, he has to admit his entire managerial style is flawed, which is to say, the Mets have been ignoring him since 2006. No chance Randolph goes down that path. He’s too stubborn, too arrogant for that. Better to look the other way, deny everything – and then cross the fingers. Tightly.”
…as usual, klap has a finger on the real pulse of this team…
…that said, he connected a few dots for me, because i have been hearing the word Stubborn come from people connected to the team, when speaking about willie, for some time now…i never really understood what that was supposed to mean, but coupled to klap’s column, i understand the characterization a bit more now…
…the funny thing is, fans have been calling willie Stubborn since his first season…
Nevertheless, in the Journal News, Rick Carpiniello throws some reality on the fire, writing:
“The perception is that Randolph has lost control of his team, which, of course, is ludicrous. Even if it were true, those who are claiming it to be so have no way of knowing…Likewise, Randolph is painted with a brush of somebody without fire – which is also ridiculous – because he doesn’t blow his top. His team, they claim, is flat, unemotional, uncaring; even if we all know that teams usually look that way when they’re not hitting, not pitching, not fielding or not running the bases particularly well.”
For more opinion and information, I highly suggest you check out John Harper in the Daily News, Ken Davidoff in Newsday, and Joel Sherman in the New York Post, who writes:
“A manager is best served with allies in four areas: 1) clubhouse. 2) front office. 3) media. 4) fan base. Randolph is pretty much 0-for-4.”
The main thing wrong with Willie’s approach is that he manages the team he wants, and not the team he has.
This is an EXCELLENT point, and more accurate than you may even realize.
So something has to change. What do you think it will be?
I mean if everyone here can agree on one thing, it’s got to be that something has to change. Even if they just flip a switch and play better, that’s change. I just don’t think it’s that simple.
So where do they go from here?
Is it really? Could you please tell me what it mean in concrete terms? I’m not trying to be a jerk, I really don’t know what that, in practical terms, means.
But it sounds good.
agree 100%. Willie is in total denial, plain and simple. Since his pride and now “world famous” stubborness won’t allow him to acknowledge that it could possible be his fault and lack of managerial talent!
i (and others) have been saying for months: he manages like his team is 25 willie randolphs.
he manages the team he wants, and not the team he has.
So, given the team he has, what things should he be doing that he doesn’t?
I’d really like to know.
I was just thinking the same thing… as a Mets fan I am in a tough spot. I want the Mets players to step up and beat the Yanks and Braves this week, but at the same time, I’ll be angry that Willie will get the credit for it. This is why he should have not been brought back for the 2008 season. The only way he gets fired midseason is if the team is really struggling- meaning below .500 or out of first place by a good amount of games. Catch 22 situation for mets fans who want willie out!
Willie might get some credit for it here, but keep in mind that when the news of a “re-evaluation” of the manager came out, for whatever it was worth, it was also very clearly stated that wins and losses were not going to effect the outcome.
Again, I think while everyone gets at each others’ throats here, the decision has probably already been made. Now it’s a question of timing. And they’re also not going to fire a manager who was just named to the All-Star coaching staff. Might even by why he got that honor in the first place. Who knows?
Bottom line. It’s bad form to hope that your team loses. It’s a free country, but it’s not very productive.
i don’t think the all-star spot is going to matter much.
So basically, you are saying you are not a Mets fan. You are just a Willie hater. Win, lose or draw you hate Willie. You hope the team does bad so you can hate on Willie some more.
Now I’m not crazy about some of Willie’s moves but no one will agree 100% with any manager. It’s not like great managers grow on trees. Some of you guys suggest ex Mets to manage, but they have no track record which is just a recipe for disaster.
This is like Bobby V all over again. He was doing great for a couple of years, then some high priced veteran were brought in. They underperformed and brought his downfall (Vaugn, Alomar, Burnitz). Any time high priced veterans are brought in, more is expected. Now some of you want to bring Bobby V back? Is that going to turn things around? Likely not. The manager does not have that much power people! Ultimately, the players have to perform!!!
The one thing that has going for the Mets is that they are relatively young and can turn things around. Firing Willie is not the answer. Reyes, Beltran, Wright are in a rut. They are young enough to turn it around. Delgado is quickly become a bust. As long as there is only one of those around, you should be OK.
Klapisch is just stirring up some controversy because it is easier to write about than actually doing some real work or analysis.
I dont get it. What specific flaws in Willie’s managerial style are responsible for Wright , Castillo and Reyes hitting in the 260’s and the Carlos’ hitting in the 220s?
I mean be for real, when the players you are counting on to produce big are posting non mlb batting averages with precisely zero power, along with some little league bonehead plays in the field and on the base path, what exactly is the manager supposed to do?
I am sorry, I cannot blame Willie for the bad performances of the players or unforeseen injuries. you mean to tell me that WIllie is such a poor manager that 70% of his lineup forgets how to hit?
I am not raving about Wille, because I could care less about the manager, it is way overrated. the blame for the poor play thus far belongs to the players entirely
the sportswriters know that they can crank out the old “out with the manager, he stinks” manuscript on his desktop and sit on his fat fanny without having done a bit of work
pathetic
I’ve been reading Klapisch’s stuff forever. I agree with some of what you said, but that’s really not his style. Check out “The Worst Team Money Can Buy” if you can find it and haven’t read it before. Pretty good stuff, and a lot of similarities with what goes on today. In fact, your post could have fit very easily into several of the chapters.
Klapisch is just stirring up some controversy because it is easier to write about than actually doing some real work or analysis.
Couldn’t agree with you more. I guess I’d more respect for Klapisch if his record for accuracy weren’t so poor. I still can’t get over how he said the Mets were going to go full throttle after A-Rod this past winter. So, “finger on the real pulse of the team?” I don’t think so.
And I don’t understand Klapisch’s rationale for calling Willie delusional. Does he really expect Willie to tell it like it is? C’mon, Klap, get real. Should he say “This team is in trouble. Out first basemen has declined so much due to age he can no longer field or hit respectably. Heilman and Sosa just haven’t done the job this year. Ollie’s mind is in the clouds sometimes. Jose is just a shadow of the player he was in 2006. We’re in big-big trouble and there’s no way out!’
It’s just another example of Klapisch trying to bash the Mets again. The Yankees are in worse shape than the Mets right now. Where are the stories bashing them and Girardi :?:
Um, Matt was being sarcastic with his “finger on the real pulse of the team.”
I read it again, and I have to say if that was sarcasm it wasn’t very clear.
It’s in context,
he follows it up with “…that said, he connected a few dots for me…”
Reading comp wasn’t your strength in school, was it?
Lets say wilpon/omar comes out and says, “willie will NOT be fired in this season.” that’d make me get behind my team and always want them to win, but with the chance of willie getting fired its almost like its okay if they lose since willie can get canned. it kills me to say it tho
Well Omar did say “No” yesterday when he was asked if Willie’s job was in danger. He said he fully supports Willie. Then again, what can he say? From what I read, and I don’t remember which paper it was, they made a point of saying Omar was cornered. Still doesn’t matter, because Omar couldn’t really say anything else. I don’t think you’ll ever hear the Wilpons say anything. I think Jeff wanted him gone last year. He didn’t say anything favorable, and probably isn’t going to now. The next six games are probably not going to do anything one way or another to effect Willie’s status, so the Mets might as well go out and get some big wins.
you do not love this team if you hate the manager so much that you would rather see the team lose than win. what is wrong with you? seriously, why do you hate willie so much!
WHY
DO
YOU
HATE
WILLIE
SO
MUCH!
exactly…it is so pathetic that met fans wish the team does poorly so that the manager can get fired..what the hell is that going to accomplish? A last place finish?…Get this through your thick skulls..WILLIE IS NOT GOING TO GET FIRED! Stop using Willie as a scape goat and support your god damned team. I blame sites like this site and the media for writing the same thing over and over again and fueling the fire. Don’t you know they are sucking you in. PLAIN AND SIMPLE THE PLAYERS NEED TO STEP UP AND PLAY THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY! ENOUGH ALREADY!
Because this team will never win a world series with Willie at the helm.
I dont hate Willie by the way hes just incompetent at his job. I know…..im going after his livelyhood.
Oh wise one, and how do you foresee that? He was within one game of the WS 2 years ago. Some really unfortunate play last year. What has changed since then? Not his style. THE PLAYERS. Enough said!
Agreed 1000%! If you hope the Mets lose for ANY reason, you are not a fan!
Hey Mets,, stop treating your fans like we’re stupid. I take serious offense to the comments made by Willie. Saying that we don’t know anything about baseball and don’t have the right to voice our opinion on the direction of the team and his managerial ability. Enough Wilpons.. You have arguably the most fervent following in all the game and yet you feed us bull. This is a new low for this organization. Delgado comments about how he had to leave the ballpark early are insulting and unacceptable. Maybe you get a pass this time but don’t make a habit of underestimating your fans. Just to let you know,,, whoever talked to Billy and made him put his tail between his legs made him look like a fool. Get it together!!!
Billy is a fool and he should have kept his big mouth shut…Once a Rat always a Rat…
Yes blame Billy….he should have said its a long season ….its only one game……..we’ll get them tomorrow
Comment by gameball
2008-05-17 10:16:59
The main thing wrong with Willie’s approach is that he manages the team he wants, and not the team he has.
that is very true. but heres the rub. willy doesnt believe with vets and talented players like this, that the managing technique you guys are calling for is going to make a difference. when it comes down to it, hes the manager, NOT THE PLAYERS. its up to them to hustle. willy is bound by many things, the players are bound by nothing. they arent going to get fired. they are still going to get paid. they will still have to play because of the massive amount of money invested in them. all willy can do is tell them. thats it. and telling grown men being paid millions to RUN gets old and may get tuned out.
for the most part, i think mets fans are idiots. they dont think with their minds and think with their hearts. which is fine, but its not an informed opinion. i see the same thing as you guys and it makes me sick. these guys should hustle. its offensive to the fans who pay their money to see a team not have enough focus to play hard and to play hard for EVERY team. thats unacceptable.
but back to the fans. i read what seemed like a million comments yesterday about willies interview. its amazing how people hear just what they want to hear. for the record, willie is not talking about feeding his family. MULTIPLE TIMES he said, this is not about him or his family. however, when you fire the manager you fire the entire STAFF. that means all the secretaries, and people who help the team, who make the same money as most of the fans. their families are in trouble. you interpret what he said in a way that makes me realize that fans cannot rationally interpret anything willie does or what willie says.
i wish that people could care 1/10 this much with how much how our hard earned money in the form of taxes goes to a corrupt system whose job is less and less everyday to protect and help us, and more to screw us over. get your priorities straight you bunch of whiners.
Time to up your meds.
and since mets fans have really short memories, since probably a segment of you started cheering for this team in 2006, bobby valentine was my favorite coach. he was entertaining, he was interesting, he was smart, and he had the same fire willie has that made him a champion, but shown in a different way. now, when valentine got a vet laden team, he was a disaster. WHY?
did he lose his smarts?
did he all of sudden forget how to manage baseball?
the reality is that it was the players that changed. these werent young hungry players who knew if they didnt perform, they would be gone, like benny agbayani and jay payton. he was able to communicate with them, but when it became a veteran dominated team, they tuned him out. all his skills were useless unless the players listened to him.
you dont think that willie, who hustled and played hard every single day for much much less than what these guys make today is not as frustrated as you guys? THATS WHAT HE SAID YESTERDAY IN THAT INTERVIEW. he wasnt offending you! he was saying, guys, i know. i feel just like you.
none of you are champions. none of you are baseball players. all of you are fans. that puts you at a disadvantage because you are not informed and because you cant think rationally. its almost as if you all know that the players will always be here, and you also think these players have the potential to be good, so you dont get on them. so much so that when reyes was finally benched last year, there was even a segment that said WILLIE SHOULDNT HAVE! hahaha he finalyl disciplines a young player for doing exactly what everyone hear is complaining about, and he still gets criticized.
i really would love to know what problem people REALLY have with randolph, because it just doesnt make any sense. WE ARE NOT ENTITLED TO CHAMPIONSHIPS. so what is willie keeping us from?
Please ghobot since your so INFORMED.. Please enlighten us on how Willie posses Bobby V’s fire and baseball wisdom? You clearly don’t know anything about Bobby V if your comparing him to Willie Randolph.
Is impossible to take you serious after you make those sort of comments. and again you call us idiots.
no good doctor, the point is, it didnt matter if bobby was smarter than willie. it didnt matter that he showed his fire different way. even the smartest manager leads teams into the crapper just like we had to suffer after our WS appearance.
again, and again, and again, its about the PLAYERS. ITS THEM. players can make the smartest manager look dumb.
i think you are getting wrapped up in your emotions and now you have a conduit to express your immense amount of disappointment and anxiety about something that honestly is out of your control. do you really think that firing willie randolph is going to make this a championship team? seriously?
By your logic, if it is all the players:
1.) Why have a manager at all?
2.) What possible hard could come from making a change away from Willie?
Frankly, you are correct that certain teams are better suited to certain managers and vice versa. All we are saying is that this team and manager may not be a good fit.
No longtime Mets fan feels entitled to a championship. However, after suffereing so many lean years, Mets fans do want to see a team that actually has talent (so many years the Mets have had very little talent) give a good run for a championship. It has been 21 years. Fans see how close this group came in 06 and want to get a championshio before it’s time to rebuid again.
At this point, I feel entitled to crisp, well-played, hard-nosed baseball. Wins/losses and the playoffs will take care of themselves and may work out but may not. However, this lackluster .500 play from a team that ironically called themselves “entitled” for a calendar year is not tolerable from such a talented group.
*What possible *harm*….
We really need an edit button to fix typos.
wow man,,, good work trying to spin this situation. Yea ghobot he was talking about secretaries! Thats it,, He came on Mike and the Mad Dog and wanted fans to know how his secretary is going to feel when she losses her job… Please guy..
and you call us idiots…
i am not spinning anything! that is what he said! did you listen to the interview?
“A manager is best served with allies in four areas: 1) clubhouse. 2) front office. 3) media. 4) fan base. Randolph is pretty much 0-for-4.”
3 and 4 matter most. It will cost him his job in 08 or 09.
His contract is up after this year. There is no way he is brought back for 09. Im willing to sacrifice 08 if it means a clean slate in 09.
No more Delgado, Alou (I love the guy but we cant depend on him), Duque, Pedro, and Perez.
I wouldnt mind at all if we used this year to get some work in for the rookies and gear up for 2009
Next year we could be seeing
1b) Carp/Evans/Teixera/Wright
2b) Castillo
ss) Reyes
3b) Wright/Murphy
Lf) Fmart
CF) Beltran
Rf) Church
C) Schneider
and a rotation of
Santana
Maine
Pelfrey
Niese
One of Parnell, Bostick, Jon Garland, Pedro Martinez, or Freddy Garcia
I’d be more then happy with a young team like that, with a good manager at the helm.
that’s asinine. you may be willing to forfeit 08 but the mets’ brass sure isn’t. you can also be sure this year does not mean ticket prices next year are going to be any lower.
fans like you really need to reassess why you’re a fan in the first place.
that’s a bit harsh. Point is, if the current team isn’t working, try to jump start it by seeing if some prospects can add a spark. Plus it gives you a head start on evaluating talent for next year.
It’s asinine that I cant wait for Delgado’s contract to be expired. I want this team to win, and I know its not going to happen with Randolph at the helm and a bunch of cant-be-depended-on veterans who arent stepping up and becoming leaders.
This is really pretty simple. Just make a basic decision tree to figure out what to do.
key question is, do you think the team is playing up to it’s potential? If yes, then Willie is safe, and it is what it is.
If no, then you ask if Willie is the problem (or more accurately, will changing managers improve their performance?) If yes, he goes.
If no, then you shift the focus to Omar, since3 the team has underacheiving players that the manager has no control over, and he assembled them. So the new question is, can Omar make the moves needed to “fix” the roster? If no, he can go too.
I am leaning toward the team needing a shake up, but I doubt it will happen mid season. IF it can’t, unless the clubhouse completely blows up or they really tank in the standings, they will ride out Willie and hope the players get their act together (collective heads out of collective butts).
Realistically, they need to decide as a team that they are embarrassed, and need to start hustling and playing hard. I really don’t know if a new manager wil be able to flip that switch.
Otherwise, there will be a roster purge (including the coaching staff) in the off season, and we all start fresh next year!
Still, one can always hope the dump Delgado somehow, stuff like that to shake up the team. SOmetimes you need a young, hungry guy fighting for his future to spark the team (or at least show them up!)
exactly. EXACTLY! can someone sticky this to the top of every post?
of course willie is stubborn! this is how he thinks a championship team in his experiences as a champion should be run. if it doesnt work, he goes down doing it the way he knows how. he doesnt care about money. he doesnt care about being popular, he cares about winning. and he believes, that if the mets players listen to the way he wants them to play, they will succeed. otherwise, they wont win, and he will be gone.
klapisch is not the manager. as much as he wants to be, he isnt. nor are we. its may, the wilpons know how important it is for the mets to do well, and if randolph doesnt win, hes gone. so constantly begging for the guy to be fired is moot.
There is a mob out here just salivating over the thought of the guillotine coming down on Willie and I think it’s disgusting. 90% of these people never even played organized ball and no nothing about how the game is played.
So is this the same Willie that did an excellent job in ‘06. As they say, managers get too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when it losses.
Just out of curiosity, you exactly is it that you Willie – haters want to see manage the team instead of him? Jim Leyland? He has a lot of fire! Oh crap, his Tigers are in last place. Gee, just a couple of years ago, Leyland was a great manager. I guess he suck now, huh?
Managers are hired to be professional scapegoats. I’m tired of debating whether this is “fair” or not because there’s about a century’s worth of baseball history that demonstrates this point. I don’t get why Willie from Brooklyn could be above this.
The fact is, if the perception and belief from the people that run this team is that this group of players is truly underachieving, you’ll never really know if it was on Willie’s head unless you make a change.
I guess you could make a case of waiting out the season and if it doesn’t improve, making wholesale changes with the manager and the FO in the winter, but there’s a lot of money invested in this team right now. Personally, I think if the mediocrity continues much longer, you owe it to your fans to at least make an attempt to salvage the season, even if it comes at the expense of Willie, who’s a decent guy who did a lot of good for this franchise at one point.
You just undercut your own argument. Thank you.
I’ll be the first to admit that a few more weeks of .500 ball I would prefer to see change for change’s sake. I don’t think a “fiery” person needs to be brought in, but a different one, to try and reach these players. If it can’t happen, then we’ll know it’s the way the team that was assembled that was the problem, not just the guy leading them.
How is that undercutting anything. It’s a part of life. I don’t understand what’s so “disgusting” about anything.
When winning, “stubborn” becomes “persevering” or “having the courage of his convictions”.
When losing, “flexible” becomes “flip-flopping” or “wishy washy”.
All in the eye of the beholder and the team record.
As far as KlapTrap is concerned, I can just picture him sniffing the scent of blood and waiting to write “The Worst Team Money Could Buy–Part 2″.
It’s possible he’s on target here, but I haven’t regarded him as impartial re: the Mets since 1992, if not earlier.
I probably used to be one of the biggest Willie apologists. This has changed over the last few series. To me, the last game against the nationals was ridiculous. To give up so many outs at third base shows me that something is FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with the Mets’ baserunning approach. Some of the first things I learned about baserunning when I played jv baseball in high school was that you don’t give up unnecessary outs at third base, and you dont make the first or third outs of an inning at third. The only way the team could possibly be caught sleeping at third in such important spots of a game tells me that they are not being coached, being coached poorly, or the coaching is just not sinking in. This is a major problem and, as demonstrated by losing an 8-inning gem by Pelfrey, can lead to bad losses.
Another example of Willie “two-batters-too-late” Randolph’s poor managing can be found in today’s game in the Bronx. There is no reason Santana should have been pitching against Jeter when Smith was warming up and presumably ready to go in the bullpen (and if he wasnt ready, then shame on Willie for not making sure he’d be ready to face Jeter). When you give up your 3rd home run of the day to make the lead a dangerous one, and the heart of the opposing lineup is coming to the plate, YOU TAKE THE PITCHER OUT. Talk about letting the Yankees back into the game. Lucky for Willie (and all of us, phew) the Mets were ablebale to hold the lead and tack on some runs.
Willie’s job is to manage, not sit there and root for his players. Fans pay dearly for the right to watch this team, and Willie is getting paid to do the same! At the very least we could get a manager who wants to actually DO SOMETHING. I’d be more than happy to trade Willie my season tickets for his job, if he’d like…because right now, given WIllie’s actions, he seems like he’d be interested in such a deal.
Why not let your best pitcher start against Jeter with 2 outs? I think at that point Santana was hovering around the 100 pitch mark. If Jeter made an out, Santana might have been brought out there in the 9th for a complete game. How great would that be?
Well, not going to pretend I know what goes on behind the scenes of a baseball team and who gets fired once the manager goes (although I highly doubt the administrative staff gets fired once Willie gets fired…that’s a reach.)
All I will say after reading some of these posts hoping the Mets lose games so Willie can get fired…I don’t know how you guys do it. I can’t stand Willie as much as the next guy, but I can not root for the Mets to keep losing games. I just can’t. I would hope that this situation takes its natural course and Willie is gone soon, but not at the expense of the team.
Agreed 100%. Anyone rooting for this team to lose is out of their minds. If this is a case of this team underachieving and tuning Willie it out, it will play itself out on its natural course. I would just as rather not watch this team for a few weeks because outside of a game here and there, they bore me, then watch and adamently hope they lose to speed up the inevitable.
just how is “stubborn” defined when referring to a manager? i think mr. klapisch et al seem to define it as when the manager doesn’t conform with their every assessment and analysis… typical of a know-it-all second guessing “journalist” who has all the woulda coulda shoulda answers after the fact… what if randolph implements all of klapisch’s suggestions and the team continues to fail or does even worse? can we then demand his resignation from the bergen record? i’m not holding my breath lol…
I don’t think it works that way. Personally, I think the decision has already been made. I can’t tell you what to do, but I can’t even think of any scenario where I can hope that my team loses a game. How important would one more win have been last year?
That’s a great comparrison to Denzel! lol. It very true. Willie’s stubborness is now “World Famous” and he will never, ever admit that possibly this team’s lack of effort could possibly, somehow be his fault. Oh no, not the great Yankee, Willie Randolph. I’m really tired of hearing him say “when the hitting comes around it will take pressure off our bull-pen and the wins will come”. Give me a FREAKEN BREAK!!!!!!!! If you remember he was saying the same crap last year down the stretch when his team was in the middle of the biggest collaspe in ML baseball History! He’s was in TOTAL denial then and he is in TOTAL denial NOW!
Willie, you lost your team. Wake up.