Comments on: Note: Framing Willie Randolph

By: NegativeFan

NegativeFan — Tue, 20 May 2008 03:19:58 +0000

—–Why are you taking this personally—–

I dunno, but someone who gets accused of racism probably will take things a wee bit personally.

But if anyone wants to argue that race played a major factor in his being hired in the first place, well I’m SURE that’s out of bounds and racist, yes?

By: MH

MH — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:58:25 +0000

Ok. I see my post appears to ignore your change in tone. I was writing in response to the earlier posts. Sorry. Anyway. My appeal really is to suggest folks take a deep breath and remember we’ve got some nice players and the team will hopefully be whole soon and the weather will be warmer and we’re right in the thick of the race.. which afterall has barely started..

By: MH

MH — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:44:54 +0000

As for my quote, try looking at the entire entry if you have any interest in engaging me substantively. My point is that early success–whether Willie contributed to it or not—created high expectations. The assumption was that the Mets would advance further each year—not taking into account a whole range of factors that influence what actually happens…I think last years’ team succeeded beyond what should reasonably have been expected of them considering that Pedro was out most of the year, so was Alou, Sanchez never pitched, Valentin was hurt, Easley was hurt… Delgado had a subpar year. Did anyone have any reason to expect 15 wins each out of Maine and Perez? They played above their heads most of the year and weren’t able to sustain it at the end…the bull pen was shot by the end and that wasn’t Willie’s fault.

By: AlreadyMissShea

AlreadyMissShea — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:36:10 +0000

“If his persona had anything to do with making these guys win, they should not have fell apart at the end of last year.”

Or fallen apart. Now I’ll call myself an idiot.

By: AlreadyMissShea

AlreadyMissShea — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:35:01 +0000

OK, then you’re not an idiot. And if you read my other posts you’ll know I hate the name-calling around here. So I just figured since you broke the word out I would run with it. But let’s be serious. Willie came along at a time when the Mets decided to spend money. They spent money on Willie, and they spent money on players. If his persona had anything to do with making these guys win, they should not have fell apart at the end of last year. A manager is almost never as good as he looks on his best day, and almost never as bad as he looks on his worst. I gave Willie all the credit in the world when he was a player. Now I give it to the guys on the field.

By: MH

MH — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:31:39 +0000

I was not suggesting you were an idiot. I do think you misconstrued my words with the intention of making my point sound idiotic.

By: AlreadyMissShea

AlreadyMissShea — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:28:14 +0000

“The Mets were lousy before Willie arrived. He came in with the persona of a person who had had success, he won early on and created very high expectations”

There’s the whole quote.

“I did not say Willie came in alone nor did I say that his persona led to the success.”

So yeah, you did. Idiot.

By: AlreadyMissShea

AlreadyMissShea — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:27:02 +0000

“I’ll try not to put words in your mouth or not to assume you’re an idiot if you can manage the same with me.”

Thanks. It’s always people like you who break out words like “idiot”. You know, actual idiots.

By: MH

MH — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:25:25 +0000

“So if Willie came around in 2004 they would have won because he would have come in with a persona of success?

Not likely.”

I did not say Willie came in alone nor did I say that his persona led to the success. He was clearly part of the change in culture that the Mets were striving for. ..part of that had to do with IMAGE. ..PERCEPTION. The expectation was that his players would respect him and take him seriously given his association with successful teams and his success as a player. His team had a winning record after his first season and came within one hit of going to the world series the next season. That was my point…I’ll try not to put words in your mouth or not to assume you’re an idiot if you can manage the same with me.

By: AlreadyMissShea

AlreadyMissShea — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:11:16 +0000

“The Mets were lousy before Willie arrived. He came in with the persona of a person who had had success, he won early on and created very high expectations”

He came in with Pedro Martinez and Carlos Beltran. And Wright and Reyes making great strides. A year later he had Billy Wagner to replace Braden Looper and Carlos Delgado to replace Doug Mientkiewicz.

So if Willie came around in 2004 they would have won because he would have come in with a persona of success?

Not likely.