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At his ESPN.com blog, Buster Olney writes that Carlos Delgado’s blown home run call by home-plate umpire Bob Davidson was one more example why instant replay should be used.
Olney explains:
“The Mets wound up smoking the Yankees and so the blown call was not pivotal, but so often disputed home run calls can be pivotal. I don’t think instant replay should be used broadly in baseball, but for home runs — why not? Hopefully, the general managers who are reviewing the possibility of instant replay will advise the commissioner to implement replay for 2009, and hopefully the commissioner will act”
…i disagree with olney…if instant replay were to be used in baseball, it should include the close plays on the bases which can determine the outcome of a game just as much as a home run…
…i understand the baseball purist in all of us don’t want to see the game slowed down anymore with instant replay timeouts…but if every tv broadcast can magnify the close plays, why shouldn’t the umpires be afforded the same technology to get the call correct…
…added to by Regis Courtemanche…
…umpires should definitely be able to use instant replay for hard-to-judge home runs, but that’s all…it’s a slippery slope once replay is used for anything more than home runs, i mean, where would it end…just like Carlos Beltran’s home run should not have been revoked on April 2nd, delgado’s never should have been called foul…neither resulted in a loss, but it’s only a matter of time until it does…
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If they did that they better implement some kind of a “one challenge per team per game” type rule. Baseball is a game of inches and coaches can’t see everything from the dugout, they’d be calling on umps to review every other play, and that’s just ruining the sport imo. I’m for it maybe for home runs, but I think using it for any close play is a slippery slope.
the umps could use it at their discretion. clearly no sane umpire wants to be clearly wrong. if the umps last night had replay, they would have used it.
I agree, but it’s also the first step. Before you know it folks will be saying, like this post, if we can review HRs, why can’t we review other close plays? Part of the excitement of baseball is bang bang plays, waiting while the umps review them would ruin that. Sure they get some wrong but that’s part of the game. While we’re at why don’t we just replace the home plate umpire with the K-Zone.
I do not get any enjoyment from officials screwing up calls. I would rather take 5 minutes and get the call right. It won’t even slow the game down if you think about it. Instead of the umpires standing around seeing if someone saw the play, just stand around a monitor and get the call right.
Yeah the pretty much waste the same amount of time yappin, when they could just watch the dam replay.
I hear you metzor. If instant replay is invoked, it should be only for fair/foul home run calls. Nothing else. Because once you replay a linedrive down the line to see if it was fair or foul, then it becomes about would the guy have a triple or double, would the runner have scored from first? Would the OF have been able to cut it off? It seems silly. With a homerun, it is yes or no, and you dont have to determine what would have followed if the call was made correctly. I will say this about Bob Davidson, he knew he was wrong after the game and he manned up, he didnt try to hide or blame somebody else. He said, I effed this up, and nobody else, so good for him for atleast admitting his mistake and taking responsibility for it. Imagine if the Mets lost the game the backlash there would have been from this?
I don’t know. I think some of these umpires are extremely arrogant. Remember the blown home run call for Carlos Beltran very early in the year? Just like this, they called it right and then reversed it. That is someone — probably one umpire in each case — insisting on forceing their will on the other umpires. I say that instant replay SHOULD be used. If not, then I think that umpires need to be fined and suspended just like players if they blow a certain amount of calls.
Oh, believe me I agree umpires are extremely arrogant. Nothing i hate more than these idiots and their “delayed call” strikes- just call it. You’re there so the players and the fans know whether it was a strike or a ball, not so you can be the center of attention.
But my problem with this is, where do you draw the line? You think using it for just HRs is ok, until a bad call is made on the base paths, then it should be just for HRs and baserunning, until an awful ball/strike call is made. Etc. At this point why even bother having umps? I know that’s a tad extreme, but really, do you want to slow down baseball even more? And even if you say it’s ‘umpire’s discretion’, you know it’s going to cause a lot of heartache between coaches and umps, forcing them to play it. And in the end is it worth it? My opinion is that yes there are a lot of terrible calls, but it goes both ways and in the end it evens out.
I think Enrico Pallazzo should be the MLB Umpire president.
Ollie, amazing post, one of the classic lines in comedy history in my opinion.
“Hey! Its Enrico Pallazzo!!”
Metzor, absolutely, doesnt it almost seem as if the umpires want to make the game about them instead of the players sometimes? Like you said, the demonstrative calls, the fact a lot of them look for confrontation and will run a player/coach at the first opportunity to present itself, constantly warning both benches after a batter takes an 0-2 curveball off his arm in the second inning, they want to control the game. Its a joke. I agree. I also am against instant replay, but I wouldnt mind if there was a rule added to review nothing but homeruns that are very close to the pole a la last night, or homeruns where a fan possibly interfered. Any other kind of review you would have to assume the rest of the play (e.g. a diving catch/trap or a line drive down the line), and it would become a mess.
Enrico Pallazzo was the man…lol I love that movie….
I dont think they would have used it. Davidson was pretty adamant about it being foul. I’ve been lucky enough (if you call it lucky) to have seen Wendlestat’s school for a few days and worked with some minor league umpires. Not only are they drilled with the rules and the proper positioning, but also with the psychological part of being an umpire. Which means they’re right, you’re wrong, and they dont want to hear anything different. To the point where some of them keep the arguement going and, as willie said, want to bait you into them throwing you out. Now that kind of attitude is not going to allow them to use instant replay. Especially not on plays right in front of them. Their union will never allow that. They may however allow replay on homeruns since that happens so far away from them, but they will do so only with major concessions.
The thing is, if instant replay is instituted, it makes absolutely no difference whether or not the umpires want to use it. If it is put in, it will be for situations where the umpire possibly screwed up. If you gave the umpires control of when they wanted to go to the replay it would completely and totally defeat the purpose. It would be like an NFL coach throwing a challenge flag and the ref saying…. “Nah, I dont want to review that play.”
I agree that the only type of replay they would have is on homeruns, anything else would be stupid and you would have to assume to much about how the rest of the play would have unfolded. On a HR, it is yes or no, HR or not, they dont have to decide what bases the players should be on, and things like that.
nrmax88
It does matter. Same as anything that affects the players have to go through the players union, replay would have to go through the umpires union. Dont kid yourself that it wouldnt. To implement it without their approval is questioning their integrity. You think the use of Quest tec didnt go through the union? That went through with less fuss because only the umpires view the results and it doesnt help them make the calls. Replays in each sport had to go through their officials unions.
Id personally be in favor of this. One, maybe two, “Manager’s Challenge” per game. Sorta like in football where they can throw the red flag and challenge a call.
I don’t like that idea — specific and limited challenges. The fact is, human error is cool. Makes baseball unpredictable and fun.
Except home runs because that sucked.
if we use replay on the bases, why not for strikes and balls as well?
brandon, you’re clouding the argument by talking about base plays. there is no way replay will be implemented for anything other than outfield calls on home runs and deep fair/foul balls. by bringing in more plays, you bolster the argument against replay.
I agree dykstraw, I hate to beat a dead horse, but video review on bang bang plays and on line drives over the bag is about as stupid an idea as I can imagine for baseball. Reyes is on first base, a ball is hit fair and called foul and the review it. Now what? Where does Reyes go? Some think he might have scored from first, some think he would have stopped at 3rd. What if the RF makes a great throw and the cutoff man make a perfect relay? What if Reyes tripls rounding 3rd? You dont know what would have happened for the rest of that play so in my opinion it would be stupid and irresponsible and incredibly bad for the game if they did this. On a Homerun, it is yes or no, everybody scores or nobody scores, you dont have to assume how the rest of the play would have unfolded.
There are just too many close calls on the bases to make that possible IMO.
exactly and most are not as obvious as a fair/foul or hr, not above the yellow line call
Just use it on everything except balls and strike. Maybe you could so somehing like in football where you limit the number of challenges.
The whole thing about slowing down the game is stupid. The game is already slow. What’s another 2 minutes. Besides on controversial calls the umps now gather to talk about the call anyway so what’s the difference. The time to use replay would have been the same amount of time that was used when the umps huddled together last night.
Just get the call right. That’s all that matters
Scroll up and read my post. It is a stupid idea and you cant do it. So much stuff happens each play. You dont know if a guy will pull a hammy, fall rounding second, if the OF will bobble the ball, so how can you possibly take a ball that is right down the line and reverse the call and say it is fair? What happens to the baserunners who were already on base? You just tell them to go to whatever base you feel like? How do you know the RF doesnt cut it off and gun somebody out at home. You would have to assume way to much. Thats why even in the NFL there are unreviewable plays because you dont know what would have happened if the play continued to unfold as it would have without stopping it and reviewing it.
Could you imagine stopping play to review close infield plays every single game? Ugh.
that’s why people are saying USE IT ONLY ON HOME RUNS.
Not the people who comment on this website.
Yeah seriously, I think people who post here want every single ball/strike call to be reviewed. I love how people think WHEN THEY TYPE LIKE THIS IT MAKES THEIR POST SOMEHOW MORE IMPORTANT WHEN IT REALLY JUST LOOKS STUPID.
There are three differences between plays on the bases and home runs.
1.) Plays on the bases, in many instances, have continuous plays resulting from them. Say a third out is made on a tag at second base while a runner is coming home, but then the call is reversed by instant replay to a safe call. What do you do with the runner coming home? The SS never threw the ball to the plate because there were three outs, but you can’t just return the runner to third because he might have scored. Yes, not every play has a situation like this, but the rules for when replay could be used would never be able to cover every single possible situation – since you see something new in baseball every game.
On home runs however, the result of the play is going to be a dead ball. In Delgado’s case if it’s a home run or foul, it’ll be a dead ball, so you know exactly where everyone goes. Nothing is dependent. The only time this isn’t the case is if you overturn a home run into a double. Instant replay rules might just have to make a “ground rule” double in these cases, to avoid any placing the runner issues.
2.) Umpires have a better view of plays at the bases. Obviously, this doesn’t mean they always get it right, but they at least are in a better position to get it right. With home runs on the other hand, even the best umpires will tell you that from 200+ feet away, with quirky ballparks and fans reaching everywhere, they don’t have a good look at home runs – and it’s impossible to get a perfect view.
3.) Yes, while tags on the bases or catch/no catch calls could decide if a run is scored or not, they don’t always. But home runs ALWAYS affect whether or not runs or scored, so they are bigger calls.
It’s easy to say all the flaws and scenarios now when there are no rules in place to account for those scenarios.
However, there is no reason why there can’t be a clauses that go with with the replay rule. They just need to have time and it be thought out by MLB not as a quick reponse to a blog.
The MLB rulebook is long and detailed to account for all the situations that are currently in place. I think I heard there were 4 pages dedicated to the rule about what happens when you bat out of order.
On a play that is overturned at the basepaths does the runner advance 1 base, 2 bases, umpire’s discretion? I don’t know but I’m sure with some thought it can be figured out.
People like to over dramitize this stuff like it’s trying to split the atom. It can be figured out, the rules committe just sits down and think about it.
Well, sure some committee could decide a hard rule as where to place the runners, but this would just create a no-win situation.
If the umpire blows a call while other runners are moving around, and then some rule (or some umpire) has to guess or enforce a hard rule about what would have happened, even more chaos would result.
If they overturn it and make that first call correct at the expense of guessing what would have happened to another runner or giving him a base he might have not gotten, then it’ll just be a new controversy. It’s a lose-lose. Either you blow the first call or you blow the second.
At that point, what’s the point of using replay?
Replays on the bases could never logically work. Some committee trying to account for every scenario in baseball could work for 1000 years and never make it logical.
Well articulated, ags.
Good job Jay, that is exactly what I have been trying to say but you articulated it better then I. Every thing that happens on the field is in question, you simply dont know what will happen as the play continues to unfold. You would have to assume way too much and it would never, ever work. On a homerun, like you said, it is a yes or no question, and if it is indeed a homerun, then the play is over right there aside from the technicality of a guy rounding the bases. There is no assuming what would have happened. This would also allow umpires (in stadiums like arizona when there is a line the ball must be above) to rule the close balls in play and continue to let the play unfold, and then you can always review the play and award a HR afterwords. If you award a HR, and then you decide it wasn’t this could also be a mess because you have guys jogging around the bases and nobody can say for sure what would have happened had they been busting it normally.
I think a ground rule double would have to be the result of situations like you mentioned. Yes, sometimes it would be a triple. Yes, sometimes the offense would throw the guy out at second. Yes, sometimes a runner would score from 1st base. But I think a ground rule double would make it the most fair, and it’d be easy for teams to deal with.
this is actually sad, I feel that replay doesnt belong in baseball. But it has become clear that the Incompentence of the umpires to get close calls like the delgado homerun right has warranted the need for instant replay in baseball. The umpire quality gets worse and worse every year. Granted i was young and not as knowledgeable about base ball back then, but i dont remember the umpiring being this bad in the 80s and 90s. The umpires today seem to act like the fans are there to see them. Take the homeplate umpire last night yelling at the Mets bench, he was ooking to toss soemone. Or even a better example, Angel Hernandez, how many times has that disgrace of an umpire insulted Major League players. Some of the upires today are so hot headed and so quickly swayed to change their calls.
Another good point. It is sad.
Honestly, considering games routinely last 3hrs on average, whats another 5 minutes to make sure that the proper call is made? Considering how much time is wasted as it with arguing, and umpire conferences, etc. Remember how long the game stopped when Kotsay trapped a ball that was r uled a catch? First Willie came out to argue. Then Cox – that alone was about 10 min itself.
Make it happen for HR’s, and bang bang plays, as Cerrone mentioned
NO WAY SHOULD IT BE USED ON THE BASES!!!
THAT IS INSANE!!!!!
Homeruns are absolute….its a HR or its not..they should not be left to interpretation….
If instant replay were ever used on the basepaths it would RUIN BASEBALL!!!
How about a designated crew chief who sits in a booth for when a close play happens, he can look immediately at replays without having the umpires leave their positions to find a tv
my comment is pure suggestion… I’d rather no replays in baseball ever
I’m all for instant replay. Put an umpire in the press box, and let him communicate with the crew chief when he feels he has something to contribute. It would still ultimately be the crew chief’s call, but he will have the advantage of access to the replay in cases where he thinks the replay will have the best angle.
It would be a good retirement plan for older umpires who still want to travel to games, but aren’t as quick as they used to be (or whose eyesight is failing.) ;)
Or who joined some ill fated and bizarre job action that called for a mass resignation.
ouch…
If you want discretion, it can only be used once by each team during the game as an appeal. They should also include that if the appealing team doesn’t get it right they would get an extra out. This would prevent frivolous use. It should only be used for HRs as there are way too many times that infield plays look like an out with one angle and safe with another angle.
You cannot mess with outs this way. That is football mentality. There are three outs an inning. Not three unless you get an appeal wrong.
“Charging” an out for an appeal is not baseball.
THIS.
huh?
Agree that they need replay on HRs. Don’t agree for close plays at bases, especially since even the replays are not always conclusive in regards to these plays. Generally, on replay it is clear when a ball is fair or foul, over the line or under. But for tags and close plays, it is often impossible to determine even through replay.
What MLB really needs though is better Umpires who pay more attention to their jobs and respect the games over their own ego and desire to be “stars” of the game. Did anyone else see the part on Japanese Umps in the Zen of Bobby V (everyone should watch)? The Japanese Umps come out during batting practice, and stand behind every batter, taking notes on their height and stances to measure their strike zones, and so that they are prepared on how to stand for each batter to get the best view of that strike zone. What do you think MLB Umps are doing before the games?
I saw that and thought that was amazing. The umpires actually practice during batting practice. I don’t remember noticing the umpiring as much as I have the past two or three seasons. I feel like it is getting worse and I don’t know why?
with instand replay… instead one taking 2:30-3 hours now will take 4-5 hrs…. you know everyone is going to challenge that foul ball down 1st/3rd baseline
No! Not if certain stipulations are made, like if a manager view is overturned, it costs him an out and no more than 2 challanges a game.
I have no problem using it for home run calls. As far as the slippery slope argument goes, in the NBA they recently instituted limited replay for shots taken before the buzzer goes off. As far as I know, the world hasn’t ended as a result.
I really don’t buy into the “slippery slope” argument. There are plenty of rules that the other leagues use to keep the use of replay in check. Baseball would be no different.
Look at basketball. They understand the importance of getting the plays right, so every shot that is close at the end of a quarter gets reviewed. Football has very strict guidelines about what can or cannot be reviewed.
I think that beseball should start out implementing replay in the playoffs as soon as possible. Last season not withstanding, usually one homerun isn’t going to have a huge impact during the season, but the playoffs are a different story. For a reference, just as the Orioles if they would have liked the Maier play reviewed.
Base paths/balls and strikes are a “judgement” call and can’t be reviewed. Just like in football where coaches cannot review down by contact or forced out of bounds.
In addition, I don’t think that you give the coaches power. Every game has an emergency umpire in the stadium. Give him a monitor and a way to notify the guys on the field. He can instantly review any play as soon as it happens. Replay may even speed up a couple games.
I agree, there is no need to give the managers a voice in this. If the umps on the field and in the “booth” miss it then that’s on them.
If anyone should have a voice in the dugout, it should be the bench coach. Willie even said that yesterday Manuel saw the replay in the dugout while willie was arguing with the umps.
Limit challenges to one or two per team per game. And then limit the challenges to HR balls, foul line balls, outfield catches (vs traps), and bang-bang plays at home or at a base.
I think it could be used effectively without slowing up the game much.
Foul balls and HR’s, that’s it. Ump initated by the booth or head ump on the field. That would help, no way on bases or balls and strikes.
imagine the sh!t storm of trying to figure out if a ball is fair or foul. Especially if its a ball that looks like it goes over the bag. Its still not going to be clear and is still a judgment call. We don’t have enough cameras in the ball park to tell if a ball goes over a bag or not. Homerun calls will be much easier to deal with. Fan interference and if a ball goes over the fence or if it hits the pole are all easy things see.
just for home runs.. Its the only way to go.. You can’t take the human element completely out of the game. If we use instant replay on the bases they why just not have quest tech umpire the game. I’m sure MIT can figure out a way to eliminate Umpires entirely.
It has to be HR only. Otherwise, you have all sorts of hypotheticals going on. Ground rule doubles are bad enough. . . ;)
I for one love the ENRICO PALOTZO factor. The mets have there very own Enrico and that is Angel Hernandez the sith lord .
In the year two——thousand……
Major League baseball after a bunch of terrible calls decides to build the first Robotic umpire. Hooked up to a super computer the umpire fails to make one wrong call. A problem causes MLB to ditch the Robot when a lightning bolt strikes the robot and shots out of his eyes and disintegrates Roger clemens who was all juiced up after throwing a bat at Mets catcher Mike Piazza. The Mets go on to win the series and the robot is hailed as the savior.
…in the year TWO THOUSAAAAAND!!!!!!
I agree. If you use it, it has to be for HRs only. One other point, if you use it only for HR disputes, game length won’t be that badly altered. There are not that many close call HRs that this would be an issue every day. But if you used it for close plays or foul balls, it would be used constantly. Even if there were some “one appeal” rule (which i think is not very baseball-like) you could pretty much guarantee that the replay would be used twice a game every game.
Am I the only one who thinks anohter solution might be designing stadium fences and foul poles so that home runs are easier to discern with hte naked eye? Why are we dealing with painted stripes, fans leaning into fair play? Beltran’s shot in Miami last month was a classic case of a needlessly confusing scenario.
The other option, of course, is to overturn every call Derek Jeter argues. Him whining like an uninformed pussbag is a real lost sub-plot in the whole thing.
LOL.
The third base umpire made the correct call of home run but than after conferring with the rest of the crew reversed his call based on input from the home plate umpire. Please no instant replay in baseball.
Yes, we all saw what happened. How does restating the facts argue either for or against instant replay?
I don’t like the idea of replay either. The third base ump had the best view, plain and simple. He didn’t want to be the one guy who blew the call. The others were called in and majority ruled. Unfortunately, the guy with the best view was the only one who had the correct call. Coincidence? I think not.
If he did not discuss it with the rest of the crew the correct call would have been made. The point I was making is that the call was correct.
The initial call may not always be correct but they tend to even out over the course of a season.
Got it.
I’m a purist, but the time has come for instant replay on home run calls.
It’s too critical of a call and with many of the quirks in the newer parks it’s become harder for the umps to get it right.
Not to mention the effects it has on Fantasy Baseball….
We don’t need instant replay, we need better umpires. Why didn’t MLB crush that union when they had the chance? These tools are accountable to no one. Incompetents keep these jobs for life, holding better umpires down on the farm and doubtless keeping potential future umps looking for different lines of work.
The calls umps need help with, that we all feel need improving, are HRs (fair/foul and over the fence/not). Surely improved technology, design and building materials can help. Maybe a modernized, thinner fair pole with an electric eye and/or sensors to detect if it’s been grazed. As for the wall, eliminate goofy stadium configurations that cause ambiguity – like those rails directly above walls where you can’t tell if a ball bounces off the wall (and is in play), or the rail (and is a HR).
I think you could include everything but balls and strikes (and I think balls/strikes mostly works itself out in-game, umpires are generally good enough to regulate themselves) and it still wouldn’t amount to even one use of replay a game. Leave to the umpires, no challenges by coaches. They can use it when they think they’ve seen different things, or when none of them are sure. They convene to discuss these calls anyway, they don’t want to get them wrong — give them an extra tool to use. It will likely speed things up.
They should just impliment the way NBA uses replay. If the umps cannot agree on a call they can call for a replay to get the call right. I dont know about the challenge situation because unlike football, baseball does not have time outs. In another post i suggested the penalty for a challenge gone wrong would be an out. While harsh, it would deter the managers from challenging everything and also limit the managers to 2 challenges a game. I doubt mlb will adopt a challenge system like the NFL, but i would REALLY like them to consider a system like the NBA and replay.
It’s all Delgado’s fault. If he were any good, the call wouldn’t have been close and we wouldn’t be talking about instant replay. He should have hit it further in fair territory and deeper. When is Omar going to get rid of this guy?
And if you’re a Yankees fan, don’t you think your left fielder should have caught the ball? I mean, it was just at the fence level — that’s an easy one.
sheesh.
i hope your being sarcastic….
A Yankee fan knows he has Johnny Damon out in leftfield and is glad that he didnt trip over himself jogging over to the line.
ha~!
Why even throw the monkey wrench of on the bases into this argument. There is no way MLB is going to go from no replay to replay’s everywhere including on the bases. They will start with strictly home runs and if there is a large push for on base path replays that will be revisited down the road.
As someone above said, Have it on HR’s and if they decide it isn’t a HR give them a ground rule double and that way you know exactly where everyone goes.
THe only thing that concerns me is the example the NBA has set. it seems like it is up to the ref’s discretion as to when to stop the game and it is not clearly defined (they can stop it right in the middle to check if someone’s foot is on the 3pt line for example). In baseball I would want a much stricter set of guidelines as to when they can review a call.
The regular season is one thing, but they should absolutely bring in video review for the post-season for disputed/questionable home-runs only.
Get the call right!!
MLB needs to step in the year 2008 and follow all the other major sports with video review. Even the NBA, without a formal review, will go to a courtside monitor to get a call right. The Bob Costas’ of the world can cry me river about the integrity and sanctity of the game, but that’s exactly what we’re talking about.
Get the call right, every time!!
Bingo…At the end of the day its all about getting the call right…
Thing is in the playoffs they have two extra umpires down the lines just for those homerun calls.
Even more reason to have a video review. If they miss it with the extra set of eyes then everyone is calling for their heads on a plate.
I’m not sure when they instituted the extra umps down the lines, but was it before or after the Jeffrey Maier incident?
If you watch the replay closely, the ump that got it right is in about the same position that an extra playoff umpire would be.
Before. It was an outfield umpire that made that call.
See what I mean?
They could have umps lined up shoulder to shoulder down each line and they’ll still get it wrong.
Too lazy to read all the posts, so forgive me if this point has been made but…
“…i understand the baseball purist in all of us don’t want to see the game slowed down anymore with instant replay timeouts…but if every tv broadcast can magnify the close plays, why shouldn’t the umpires be afforded the same technology to get the call correct…”
How would it slow the game down considering the alternative is Willie Randolph leaving the dugout and arguing for a few minutes anyways? That is the time that they could be looking in a replay camera instead and actually getting the calls right.
Yea im with ya. I dont see how this would slow down the game that much….
Have an MLB offical at every game (they probably already do) to determine the video review from the press box level. Green Light = Home Run ; Red Light = No Home Run
Or, have someone at MLB offices watching every game like the NHL does. Call is phoned back to the press level MLB rep where it’s a thumbs up or down. Simple. Should take 3 minutes max. Chances are they’re already looking at the replay anyway so that will save time.
I like it.. home run balls, fair or foul down the line, those are the calls the umpires have no way to get a closer look. Agreed..the replay takes less time than the argument on field drama. Keep the replay out of the infield though imo.
You are forgiven, but yes, you are lazy. :)
Crew Chief – Bob Davidson Reacts to Delgado’s . . .
“I (expletive) it up. I’m the one who thought it was a (expletive) foul ball. I saw it on the replay. I’m the one who (expletive) it up so you can put that in your paper,” Davidson said. “Bolts and nuts, I (expletive) up. You’ve just got to move on. No one feels worse about it than I do.”
Wow, now THAT’S an apology! Although a specific, directed apology was not issued, we can surely see how unhappy the UMP was about his mistake, so that’s good enough for me!
And, the (expletive) UMP is very fortunate that the (expletive) mental lapse did not cost the Metropolitans the game!
In regards to instant replay, it’s an absolute benefit – making the seconds or minutes to get it right imperative – for the NHL, NBA, and NFL. I’m very confident that we could all think of at least one-time when instant replay was absolutely necessary and errorless. Let the MLB stick with the traditional player error – and move to add the meaningful instant replay.
**Hidden in every problem is an opportunity.**
–Buddy Ebsen
Wow, I didn’t know he said all that. I wonder if he was cursing because he was upset at himself or because the reporter had him upset. I just bring that up because he says “you can put that in your paper”.
I love the ENRICO PALOTZO factor. The mets have there very own Enrico and that is Angel Hernandez the sith lord .
In the year two——thousand……
Major League baseball after a bunch of terrible calls decides to build the first Robotic umpire. Hooked up to a super computer the umpire fails to make one wrong call. A problem causes MLB to ditch the Robot when a lightning bolt strikes the robot and shots out of his eyes and disintegrates Roger clemens who was all juiced up after throwing a bat at Mets catcher Mike Piazza. The Mets go on to win the series and the robot is hailed as the savior.
The Mets lost a homer last year in Arizona also. Seems to happen a lot to the Mets.
I definitely think they should have instant replay, but only for home runs. That said, I wouldn’t complain if they decided to do it for close plays, too – but there would have to be a system like in the NFL where you only get a few opportunities to review a play.
The fact is, games like baseball evolve, whether you notice it or not. No one’s complaining that now we have indoor stadiums with air conditioning or using the most high-tech gloves and bats and body guards, all additions to the game that have changed it forever. So I don’t buy the “purist” argument.
Incidentally, anyone think umpires should be more accessible to the media after a game? It’s pretty rare that you ever get the take of an ump or ref, despite the fact that players, managers, and plenty of other people have to defend and explain their every decision and action on the field.
I’ll put this in again as it was on another thread. The umpires union has to give the go ahead on any replay rule and the only one they would probably allow is a homerun replay and thats with a concession. Give them a 5th man for every crew, 4 on the field, one in the press box, they rotate around every game. The fifth man can also be the official scorer to solve those home town scoring rulings that most dont like. Implement the rule like the NHL does with scoring. On a questionable homerun call that fifth umpire can call down to say he’s reviewing it. If it clearly shows that the call on the field was wrong he reverses it. If it’s unclear what had happened then allow the call on the field to stand. Shouldn’t take any longer than a pitcher warming up. The umpire’s union would go for it cause they get 15 more jobs and its one of their own making the calls. They’ll never allow any replays on calls that happen right in front of them though. Seems like a simple solution to me.
I like your idea….Don’t they already have a back-up ump at the games just in case a replacement is needed during the game for whatever reason. Not sure if this is the case.
No, no extra ump at games. When one gets hurt or if one gets sick and cant go out there, they go with just three. If they have enough notice before a game they can fly in or get someone else as a replacement.
We have cameras at traffic lights — why not just attach a camera to the top of the foul pole, pointing downward? It would be available to the official scorer and the TV feed, and only the official scorer would be able to trigger a reversal.
Beltran’s ball earlier this year hit just behind the fence in right/center, but as another poster said was called correctly then overruled incorrectly.
That’s a great suggestion. A camera and maybe one video “challenge” a game for each team and maybe from the seventh inning on the umpires could review plays on their own, not at the discretion of the teams. And I think you’d have to put some limit on the amount of plays and type of plays that can be reviewed. For example, you cannot overturn a force play originally ruled an out by the ump. Something along the lines of once the whistle is blown the play is dead (in football).
If they don’t use it for homers, they need to tell teams to fix their fences so that balls in awkward spots are more clear. C’mon yanks…Black on the pole? There are other fields that have all these silly stripes meandering around… make a fence a fence!
It would be a HUGE mistake to implement instant replay for calls made on the bases. If MLB is to implement instant replay, it should only be for disputes involving home runs. Home runs have an immediate impact on the game as an instant RBI for the team. Plays on the bases will not immediately impact a team. Example, imagine spending 5 minutes reviewing a blown call on second base, with two outs, only to have it reversed (in favor of the base runner) and then see the next batter pop out. 5 minutes wasted, no RBI for the team. A total wast of time.
Yeah, that’s possible. But it’s also possible the next batter hits one out. In which case the time spent was totally worthwhile.
I understand the need for the game to progress quickly, so if you limit challenges to 1 or 2 per team per game, you shouldn’t have a problem if you expand challenges beyond HR balls. A team will then pick and choose the occasions to challenge a call.
Yeah, then a team will challenge a call for the sole purpose to slow down a dominating pitching performance by the opposing team, just like calling time right at the point a kicker makes a kick in the NFL. You know the effect of slowing down a pitcher during a game. I don’t want the MLB to turn into the NFL where coaches begin to challenge plays just to throw off the rythem of a team. Not a good idea.
LOL…How true. That reminded me of this opposing local legend coach arguing a call with the homeplate umpire right in front of homeplate while my pitcher was pretty much dominating his team. I yelled at the ump to move him so my pitcher can throw and stay warm. The ump told him to move over with him to continue the discussion but he didnt move, arguing right there. I eventually yelled at my pitcher to throw and I didnt care whether he hit the coach or not. Oh the stare I got from him, would have burned holes thru lead. The ump jumped inbetween him and my pitcher and started to push him out of the way. His whole intent was to disrupt my pitcher. Worked for about one batter, then he was lights out again. I laugh everytime I think of it. Guy didnt shake my hand after the game either. LOL
Sunset … that’s why you limit teams to one or two challenges per game. No team is going to waste a challenge on something like that. Why would they? If they wasted a challenge earlier then they can’t do anything about a 9th inning HR ball that may be called foul.
Moreover, most challenges can be resolved in 5 minutes or less. The umps look at the tape and make a decision. I don;t really see any potential for seriously disrupting the pitching performance of a dominant pitcher. If he can sit out 15 minutes or more between innings, then certainly one 5-minute break to review a call isn’t going to hurt him.
I still think it should cost a team an out if they lose the challenge. I wanna see a manager burn an out to stop a dominating pitching performance.
If a replay rule comes it will not be with teams having challenges. Theres no way to penalize a team for challenging.
hmmm…. whatabout 12 yr. old JEFFREY MAIER,
he sure helped the yankees in 1996
I personally do not enjoy having my time wasted, however, if it’s possible that only a few-moments of time could make the difference of how many runs are on the scoreboard, than I’m going to say that I see it another way.
That is, what if we look on the flipside of the blown call at second base. What if the crew got it right through few-minutes of instant-replay watching? There would be a base runner on second base with 2-outs, correct? Well, what if, instead of the next batter popping-out and wasting 5-minutes of our time – they dropped a blooper base hit, or crushed a ball far enough to watch the Big Apple raise out of the hat??!!! That’s huge, and that’s why 5-minutes of our time may be worth it.
all those parks with their nooks and crannies. its so hard, honestly.
how does tennis do their laser triangulation for out of bounds hits?
No need for replay on homeruns, use tech.
Place something which will react to the baseball passing them on the foul poles and the call will be right. It can be something woven into the thread which will break the signal and setting off lights at the top of each foul pole.
yeah thats how i see it. we should use technology.
Lets say the Yankees came and won last night, beating the Mets 6-4 or 6-5.
You wouldve had an absolute IRATE fan base today and you know it. And the ump even admitted he messed up today. Imagine we lost because of that call. People would be flipping out, and it’d be all over radio.
Im sure everyone was cringing when Yanks immediately made it 4-2. Obviously a 6-2 lead is a whole lot better than a 4-2 lead.
Yes in the end we won. But in situations where umpires have to discuss a call on a play, there should be instant replay.
Both football and hockey institute it. All you have to do is have someone upstairs in charge of looking at it, they telephone it down, and its done.
It is NOT time consuming. The game is already 3 hours long; 5 min to get the call right should be ok.
They should only review home runs for fair/foul. Close plays at bases are basically impossible to review and should not be done.
Anything more and it’s turning into the NFL before the new rules.
And let the umps choose, trust me, they want to get the calls correct.
Willie gets screwed on calls like Beltran’s and Delgado’s because there is no fear of reprisal or of being embarrassed by Willie because he doesn’t want to get out of comfort zone.
The umps flipped the call because Jeter and Damon were upset and flailing their arms over the call…..there is no fear factor from getting an earful from EZ Willie
Umpires don’t make their decisions based on fear of reprisal. That’s nonsense and you know it.
The umpiring crew reversed a call against the Braves when the Mets were there the first weekend of the season. I guess they weren’t afraid of mean old Bobby Cox arguing.
Umpires don’t care who the manager is. They just make the call they think is right.
Jeez, you don’t need the little booths like the NFL. Every stadium has its equivalent of Diamond Vision. Just show it on the big screen. Easy.
Actually, I’d also like to see balls and strikes called by QuestTec. I’m so tired of umpires’ inconsistent strike zones. QuestTec would ensure that a strike is a strike is a strike, corner to corner, letters to knees.
Replay for homeruns only, that or get umps that don’t look like Mr. Burns.
Booooooo urns!!
i think this might have been mentioned before…but have a video replay booth like the NHL. i say only on homeruns and maybe fan interference? 30 seconds to a minute…make the call.
no set # of challenges by the managers. However, if it is tough to determine if a ball goes out or not just go to the replay and get it right.
Did anyone read the statement from the ump admitting he made a mistake on Delgado’s HR?? Here it is from SI.com
Ump admits blown homer call
Posted: Monday May 19, 2008 05:46AM ET
The blown call on a Carlos Delgado fourth-inning shot that bounced off the left field foul pole was still reverberating in the umpires’ clubhouse afterward, with home plate ump Bob Davidson giving a frank assessment of what turned out to be his incorrect ruling. “I —-ed it up. I’m the one who thought it was a —- foul ball. I saw it on the replay. I’m the one who —-ed it up so you can put that in your paper,” Davidson told reporters. “Bolts and nuts, I —-ed up. You’ve just got to move on. No one feels worse about it than I do.”
Or . . . if was don’t want to use tech (I proposed a simple idea above) add an outfield umpire.
Please though, keep replay away.
ugh – was = you
Thanks a typo I can’t figure out.
Peter – you may want to consult a physician… I think you are having a stroke..
ahm o-tay
tankS!!!
Ok this is off topic, but the Yankees have the worst fans.
I was walking home from school when a school bus stops. A Yankee fan on the bus started yelling at me Mets Suck… Mets Suck… Mets Suck you little b*tch. I was wearing my Mets jacket so they knew I rooted for the orange and blue. I said nothing, but come on, your team has been swept, and you have the nerve to ridicule me for being a Mets fan?
They really are the scum of baseball (Along with Philly). I will not respect a team who harbors more idiots per second than is humanly possible.
Oh and Delgado’s homerun was fair… bring on the instant replay!
Its part of the rivalry, lighten up. I enjoy doing that to yankee fans. As long as there is no violence, Its actually great for Big Apple Baseball
I know, but it caught me off guard. I was walking home, minding my own business and then all of a sudden, I was called a little b*tch. I didn’t even know the kid. If it was my friends and I, wouldn’t care as much.
Never mind, even if the Yankees had the nicest fans in the world I would still hate their team.
Let’s Go Mets!
Some stranger is kind of scetchy
I would hate instant replay. Human umping, ejections, bang bang plays are a part of the game. I like the idea of adding outfield umps
Most Mets fans were probably glad they called it foul by mistake…that way they get to still bash Willie for not complaining enough or for whatever nonsense the reason is today.
Reyes & Wright got hits thats why they won both game, if they went 0-for like agains the Nats they wouldve lost, its just that simple, as i’ve stated before…somehow if those guys get hits they play “inspired” but if they dont get hits Willie is a terrible manager….yeah I know it makes no sense to me either, i’m just sick of reading the same garbage.
Truth is this team has played like garbage and are a game out of 1st, if we make the playoffs @ 82-80 I’ll be happy…but you know these guys will hit their stride and when theyre 20 games over .500 in July, and your still making comments about Willie…what will you have to say then?
Sincerely,
The 2002-2003 Mets, where Bobby V not only couldnt inspire us to play to our potential, but we all hated him so much we tried less than we wouldve if Marge Schott had been the owner.
Hit their stride and play to their potential like last season, right? And let me ask you, when was the last time that Bobby Valentine lost to a team in the playoffs that the Mets were more talented than?
well he lost to the 99 Braves, who did NOT win the WS like the 06 cards did…so…I know you probably rememebr that 99 Braves team as being something great, but they werent…remember that was the year of the greatest infield ever…
and there is a reason Bobby V wont get hired in the US….because no one wants him because they know no players want to play for him…the guy made some brilliant moves from time to time, so has Tony Larussa….doesnt mean I want either as a coach, theyre both a$$ho-les (dont wanna get removed) Bobby V enjoyed success one year when the cards fell right and he got the most out of his YOUNG players, this is a veteran team and Wright and Reyes are both “veteran” enough to not listen to a damn what Bobby V would have to say.
Bring Gardenhire back to NY…
He took an outfield that consisted of Timo Perez, Jay Payton and Edgar Agbayani to the world series. And todd ziele and mike Bordick aren’t that good in the infield.
Off topic….One of my co-workers told me this morning he had heard the ESPN announcers mention a possible trade of Delgado for Richie Sexson during yesterday’s game. Is this true? And if so why isn’t anyone talking about it?
Because it’s probably not true. I think they both have no-trade clauses and I can’t see them both waiving them.
Alrighty then fella……..I’ll just go and slap my co- worker now…thanks.
Because if it was true it was probably uttered by either John Miller or Joe Morgan and no one takes either of those schmoes seriously, for good reason
I should have known!!!!! I just wanted to know if it was them babbleling about something other than the game as usual. Why do they continue to torture us with these two geezers. Sheesh..
I don’t mind Jon Miller, he’s got a smooth voice, he’d be better if paired with a better analyst than HWSBF (he who should be fired).
One of those rumors that gets a mini-life of it’s own….don’t believe it.
Hey, MudvilleNine makes an excellent point — instant replay will also have to affect the psychology of the umpire. Now, the attitude is clearly “it ain’t a strike (or an out or a HR) until I call it”. Instant replay would bring a whole new level of accountability to umpiring. You couldn’t be as arrogant as some of these guys appear to be when you’re subject to being over-ruled by instant replay. Davidson is very rare in admitting it right after the game (but you have to believe that if the Mets had lost and that home run made it difference, he wouldn’t have been so quick to fess up). But in general, if technology is going to both improve the accuracy of calls and increase the accountability of umpires, I’m for it.
If we wanted to take it a step further, umps could get a performance bonus on the basis of how infrequently they got challenged or what percent of the time the replay overturned the call on the field. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves…
Ah but if they implement the homerun replay as I stated, with a fifth umpire in the press box, they wont lose that air of supremacy. They wouldnt be out there looking over their shoulders waiting for every call to be overturned. They’ll know that one of their own will only stop the game and reverse a call if it had something to do with a homerun call that was missed. They wouldnt mind that cause they will admit they’re a long way from the fence to make a 100% positive call on something that maybe iffy. Every other call will still be all them and they’ll have the same attitude about them. As for somebody that might say, well another umpire may not change the call of an umpire even from the booth, you have to remember that the television audience and eventually the teams after the game will see the same replays the umpire would see. If something showed clearly that the call should have been changed and it wasn’t, that umpire would be in a lot of trouble.
I’d allow one challenge a game per team, and it would have to be on fair or foul balls and homeruns calls only.
My guess is we would actually see a replay challenge about 5 or 6 times a year per team max.
If they institute it, they should only review HRs.
instant replay would break my heart…
Agree…the traditionalist in me would hate it, but if they do go there, and they might, hopefully it’s limited in scope and use.
It amazes me that so many people just don’t get it. Buster Olney doesn’t surprise me, he’s a clown. But there’s absolutely no reason to even be discussing instant replay here – because the original call was right. The only problem here is the home plate umpire not understanding what the simple requirements of an umpire is. One of the most basic rules is that you have to be 100% sure to change a call, or to call a play like a guy leaving 3B early tagging up, or a throw pulling the 1B off the bag. I mean that’s so BASIC – even Joe Morgan touched on it during the telecast. But instead of wondering why the umpire was so bad that he doesn’t even understand the basics of umpiring, all everyone wants to talk about is huddling umpires under a hood around a camera on the field or managers throwing weighted red flags out of the dugout. Just absurd.
I think every play should be reviewed from the booth and both teams get two challenges. We should also add an umpire for evry position on the field.
Honestly, its 2008, baseball needs to grow up and shed its “traditionalist” notions that do nothing but hinder the sport and dwindle its fanbase. Having a HD camera for the umps to acces on close calls at home plate and foul/fair HRs would od nothing but add credibility to a game that hasnt had a sred of it in decades.
Delgado to DH
Please allow me to paint a painful picture for all to comprehend, and then I want to read all of your responses to the distasteful image that I unfortunately witnessed last-nite.
Tuesday, 5.20.2008, Mets v. Braves, bottom of the third-inning, one-out, 2-0 Bravos.
I’m writing about Delgado’s absolute, unprofessional, inexcusable, bush-league effort towards a ground ball hit to his right during the bottom of 3rd-inning last-nite versus the Braves. The bases were not empty, so defensively we were looking for a double-play ball. There was already 1-out, so a double-play would’ve had the Mets inside their dugout on-the-hop, with the score of 2-0 remaining.
Needless to say, a ball was hit towards Delgado, who looked to make such a lackluster effort — as if he didn’t want to get his uniform dirty diving for the ball. The play was seen live, in addition to using the power of instant replay. Either way you look at it the same result remains . . . a run-scoring base hit.
The rest is history.
Delgado showed me how important he may view the passion required to be successful in New York. Furthermore, he truly made himself look like an old man who may need to either hang-up his cleats and bat, or put himself on the trading block headed for the American League. The title that I’m going to have for this article is . . . Delgado to DH.
The play pissed me off enough to believe that his best bet is to be a DH. Delgado won’t need to worry about getting his jersey dirty by playing first-base, and he’ll be able to devote his focus on hitting.
Delgado’s no attempt for extra effort with a dive made me think of another point. That is, the ONLY first-base player who can get away with such weak efforts on defense is Ryan Howard. We all know that a gold glove for Mr. Howard will happen only when pigs actually begin to fly; yet, Howard can gladly get away with lackluster efforts at first-base because he PRODUCES with the bat. The difference between Delgado and Howard is simply just that — offensive production.
I have absolutely no doubt that Delgado can hit balls over the outfield wall for years to come; having said that, we’re not witnessing a home-run derby, so we must analyze his overall offensive performance. Numbers do not lie. The truth that we all know is how a player’s defensive mishaps can be forgiven with offensive firepower. As of now, we’re not even close to granting Carlos Delgado a free pass. And, as of now, his pure disregard of doing whatever it takes for the team to win is reality.