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According to Adam Rubin in the Daily News, citing ‘the buzz among 
scouts,’ the Mets are ‘shopping’ Aaron Heilman in exchange for ‘a set-up man.’
…yikes…i mean, heilman is a set-up man, so what does that say about how the Mets view him…
…from what i understand, there are still plenty of teams who believe heilman can be a starting pitcher…oddly, there are still people within the Mets who feel the same way…unfortunately, it’s not people who are calling the shots…
…the thing is, if things are not working out for him as a reliever any more, than what else is left…
…however, if the Mets do not see him as being useful as a reliever, and he truly has trade value as a starter, they need to trade him now – without moving him to the rotation…because, if he slips as a starter, then he has no value at all…
Perfect timing. Is Jesse Orosco still available?
I still think the Mets would be better served to try and make him a starter. It’s not like they’re going to get anything for him now anway.
Selling low is not the way to go. If they can get something good for him then do it otherwise wait til his value is a little higher. Or yeah, try him as a starter. Maybe the change of roles would rejuvenate him, get his head right. In any case Willie needs to stop using him in close games when at all possible.
I agree. He wants to be a starter and though he is wild and has terrible stats this year he still has a fantastic SO ratio.
My bets are that he’d make a fine starter…counterintuitive perhaps but sometimes when a player needs to prove themselves in a position they want crazy things happen.
That’s right, sell low. Geez. Should have dealt this guy 2 offseasons ago when he tightroped through a very good season and was still bitchin about starting. You knew back then it was only a matter of time. Best case, he was going to pitch well as a reliever and then bolt as a free agent for a chance at a starting gig. Now, the worst case scenario has unfolded.
“That’s right, sell low.”
that seems to be our m.o
Don’t forget Buy high. Mets are good at that too.
Yes your right. Just like they did with Lastings M for Church and Schneider.
That was selling low ? Milledge was coming off an injury riddled season and had been called up before he was ready because we were desperate for outfielders. His value was as low as it had ever been, hence why so many people were upset with the trade, at the time, because they thought we had essentially given him away.
I doubt we could have traded him for Manny straight up like the rumors had alleged but if we had traded him before that season we would have gotten a better deal. Obviously with the way Church is playing now it’s hard to see how the deal could have been better but I’m talking about at the time the deal happened.
Now the mets are shopping Heilman??? They should have dealt him during the offseason. You should be selling high not low, just like the mets did with Jae Sowe (sp?).
Noone know he would be this bad to start the year. He came up big for us in 06 and 07. He was worth a look at the very least to start the season.
no one knew
the same no ones who knew that Heath Bell couldn’t pitch here
Heath bell
2004-Games-17 ERA 3.33
2005-Games-42-ERA 5.59
2006-Games-22-ERA 5.11
No one from April 2006 till July 30th, 2006 was mourning the loss of Jae Seo.
Especially during the 15 scoreless streak from the person we got for him.
And look where Seo is now. Back in the Korean League.
well, if the report is accurate, if they can’t get a decent offer for him (as they are “selling low”), then they have nothing to lose by sending him down and turning him into a starter.
I think they should also be willing to trade him for prospects (easier to find then a top set up man!), and replace him with Muniz or Kunz. Or even Vargas, when Pedro comes back.
\
Or maybe their crack coaching staff can figure out and fix what is wrong with him, and he can have his usual strong 2nd half?
Im with ya stick but idk whos running the show there. I still think he has potential and could help the team but just needs to correct some things in an enviorment that does not cost ML games. I think they should try to send him down to work out some stuff and come back but i guess they would rather trade him….i only wonder what heilman could merit on the trade market.
Their crack coaching staff will never get it. There is nothing to fix at this point. The problem is his head and that is a result of how they handled him since he’s been with the Mets. The damage is done. The only thing left to do is sell him very low. GREAT job, Mets.
Keep in mind, the Astros “sold low” on Brad Lidge and still got a useful young OF in Bourne and a decent set-up guy in Geary.
All we need is one pitching coach who believes he can “fix” Heilman (no Zambrano jokes, please), and we are good to go.
perhaps it’s time to fire the jacket if he’s behind these decisions on who relieves/starts
who makes these decisions anyway
Sending him down with the purpose of changing him into a starter would be best. Even if the Mets have no plans to use him as a starter, wouldn’t the highest resale value come with him as a starter?
Well, they kept him around for this long because there was a genuine chance that he could do well for the team.
That didn’t happen to the extent that we needed, so good riddance. I really hope they can get a decent deal together, but a 6.35 ERA guy that’ll be 30 before the end of the year doesn’t look too good to me. Maybe we’ll get another 30 year old 6.35 ERA guy, but one that Rick Peterson can magically ‘fix’.
Yeah just like he fixed Mota. With a nice shot of steroids in his butt.
Better to turn him into a starter, or at least try…
at this point, by trading him we would be lucky to get 2 bats and a ball.
I’ll take the bats and ball. He’s been done since 2006, let him go for his own sanity, he will never succeed as a Met.
The problem is if you try and turn him into a starter and he fails then he has no value at all.
It’d be foolish to make him a starter now, because he’d just have to go back to the bullpen anyway when everyone gets healthy. Besides, a starter who’s prone to walking guys and giving up the long ball? Eff that. I say trade him for whoever — but let’s not be surprised when he never gives up a run to the Mets for his entire career thereafter.
Get rid of him now while there is still doubt in other franchises scouts as to whether he could flourish in a starting role or not. He can still net us at least an above average arm for the bullpen. I think he needs a change of scenery at this point and that is what might attract a potential trade partner. He’s done here in NY, specially with the booying fans. ACT NOW!!!
P.S. Let’s end this Willie thing already. FIRE HIM!! And lets move on already. This is obviously not working anymore.
the Mets in recent years have misjudged Heath Bell, who anyone with two cents of sense could tell had some real heart
…and Brian Bannister
…and going back not much farther, Scott Kazmir
and Aaron Heilman should have always been a starter and everyone with any sense except yesman Marty Noble knows it
it’s been a plague on this team
it did us in 2 years ago when Yadier Molina hit that HR off him
he clearly wants to start
yet the Mets just don’t get it
send him down and convert him and he’d help US
not someone else
fools
So the fact that Heilman wanted to be a started made him give up the home run to Molina? Just trying to clarify here…
And Scott Kazmir? You’re comparing Heilman’s starting chops to Scott Kazmir? Really?
Heilman is the last Met to pitch a complete game 1 hitter
he never wanted to relieve
the Mets continue to ignore this fact
he gives up HR after HR and gave up the biggest HR in recent Mets history
yet some of you still think he should relieve
probably the same bunch who though Heath Bell could never be a Met
I’m starting to think this team’s biggest problem is it’s fans
as well as folks like Marty Noble who have helped justify these ridiculous pitching decisions
wikipedia:
He made his major league debut at Shea Stadium on June 26, 2003 in a 6-1 loss to the Florida Marlins. Heilman has pitched poorly as a starting pitcher, posting an ERA of 5.93 as a starter for 2003, 2004 and the beginning of 2005. [1] He was converted to a relief pitcher for the rest of 2005 and excelled with an ERA of only 2.18. However, Heilman’s finest game came as a starter on April 15, 2005, when he made a start in place of the injured Kris Benson and pitched a one-hit complete game shutout.
In the second half of the 2005 season, he held a 0.68 ERA, tops in the league
That listing fails to note that after he altered his arm angle, in 2005 during 7 starts he pitched to an ERA under 5.00 which included two strong starts including the complete game 1-hitter.
His ERA during that 7-start stint is better than what the various retreads and scrubs have done for the Mets in that time including Claudio Vargas, Park, Lawrence, and Lima. It is better than what Pelfrey had done prior to this year.
No wonder he’s been unhappy. They’ve mishandled him as a pitcher since 2005.
in the market with the biggest microscope on the players, the Mets continue to miss the mark
Heath Bell – totally mismanaged
Brian Bannister – another missed opportunity
Scott Kazmir – likewise
now Aaron Heilman
always should have been a starter
the same people said Heath Bell couldn’t make it here
to the same clueless folks who said Heath Bell couldn’t cut it, who now say Aaron shouldn’t start
STFU
Heath bell
2004-Games-17 ERA 3.33
2005-Games-42-ERA 5.59
2006-Games-22-ERA 5.11
Mismanaged you say…you be the judge…
I agree with you with Kasmir but at the time and EVERYTIME its the market of NY. Its the win now perspective and jim made that trade to the mets because at the time zambrano was good and the mets wanted to win now. It hurts because of Kasmirs success and zambranos no longer on our team. That is a bad trade by MY standards. Both pitchers had a chance to prove themselves and Kasmir came out standing. Bad trade.
To me the jury is still out on the bannister trade. Burgos has not pitched enough for me to judge if this trade was good. When burgos comes back and contributes out of the pen then we can decided if this trade was good or not. I liked brian but at the time we had a surplus of SP and our relief pen needed the help thanks to the sanchez incident. Omar was trying to patch that up.
Heilman could still start, i just dont think it will happen on this team. Call it mismanaging but at the time we had a good enough rotation that could have afforded to lose heilman in hopes he will aid the bullpen who were horrible. Remember a guy by the name of Danny Graves!!!! The bullpen needed the help and while yea he could have made a good starter, his help was needed more in the bullpen that starting rotation and thats why. Call it mismanaging but i see it as a guy who was helping his team try to win.
Sorry, but Zambrano at the time was no better than a #3 type starter. You don’t trade your elite #1 pitching prospect for such a marginal talent.
The Zambrano-Kazmir deal never made much sense from the beginning. It was robbery on the part of the Devil Rays. Much more of a steal than Omar getting Maine.
Duquette deserved to be canned. He was incompetent to be a GM.
I agree with you the kaz deal was horrible and jim deserved to be canned for it.
What about the jacket? He is the one who said Kazmir would never amount to be more than a bottom of the rotation starter. He saw top of the rotation stuff in Zambrano with just one or two tweeks to his delivery. He was wrong there. He’s the one who said Heilman would never be a contributing starter. He’s also had input on all those other trades. It was funny how last year Pedro said he saw what was wrong with two of our pitchers and when he came back those guys pitched better. I’m not fooled by the jackets reputation and nobody else should.
really……
Turn him into a starter for what…When do you think his starting abilites will help us hmm. We already got santana/maine/perez/pelf/vargas/pedro(when he comes back)/figgy/armas who have all been tested but you want to convert him into a SP based on one game that took place i wanna say 2 years ago??
Let some other team try to convert him as a starter if they wish, thats about the only selling point omar has right now for the guy.
Heath bell had his shot plenty of times and i would say he was our heilman at the time…could be something but just does not display it cosistantly enough.
Geezz can people give the brian deal a rest. No way to tell if he would have had the same success he had in KC in NY. At the time we had an abundace of pitching and he was the weakest link. Omar made a move to improve the bullpen. It has not paid off yet but if Burgos(who still has not really contibuted yet due to injury) turns out to be a lights out set up man then what…..
Lastly i believe Zambrano was a good pitcher when steve traded for him. Just like omar he was trying to put together a team that would win now. Obviously we know who came out better in that deal
Hindsight is always 20/20 guys
Jim Duquette traded for him
loll thanks for the proof read bro
Turn him into a starter for anyone. Heck, in his 7-start stint in 2005 he was better as a starter than most of the retreads Omar has trotted in over the last few years.
And why should people give Bannister a rest as it was one of Omar’s worst trades? Even if he flops this year, it was a bad trade. He could have been invaluable as a spot starter in ‘07 and might have meant that 1 extra win to get the Mets to the playoffs. It was a stupid trade. To say they had a lot of pitching is to be shortsighted and contradictory to Omar’s own mantra — you can never have enough pitching. As for this idea that he might not have been as successful in NY, that’s nonsense. He had already shown he could pitch in NY and without the DH and in a pitchers park he might have been more successful.
The Kazmir trade was a disaster. Obviously much worse than the Bannister trade. There was no excuse for it. Zambrano had had a sore arm before the trade. It rightly got Duquette fired.
Many fans on this site did not need hindsight to know some of these moves were ill-advised at the time.
Burgos has yet to even contribute to the team long enough to see if this deal is that bad!!!
Omar made a move to improve the bullpen because AT THAT TIME we needed it with sanchez going down. Burgos has been injured but bannister on the other hand enjoyed a full 2007 campaign and a good start to 2008. I liked brian but omars move has yet to pay off. Its unfair to judge this trade until burgos has had enough time to make a case for himself.
What i mean by give it a rest is GET OVER IT. HE IS NOT HERE ANYMORE!!!!!. For me anyway the jury is still out on this trade and im not judging it until burgos makes a fair case for comparision. I am not saying omar has been the best manager but at the time he was trying to fix a dark spot on his team. Sure right now it looks like KC got the better deal as we say we got the better deal from Washington. If and i say IF milledge becomes something im sure fans like you would turn around and slam omar for it. Some moves work out some dont. The mets are trying to be a contending team so it is set up to win now not later. Isnt that what most fans in here want…because god forbid the mets loose 2 games the years over. Some fans dont have the patience to endure the ups and downs of a 162 games season w/o wanting to jump off a bridge. Omars job is to make this work now, some moves have worked immediatly and some have not.
Yes, and the fact that Burgos has yet to contribute to the team is part of the problem and could have been foreseen if Omar hadn’t been so blinded by unrefined raw tools. Fact is, it was a highly risky trade from the start and it blew up in Omar’s face. If they needed another bullpen arm, they would have been better off re-signing Bradford and keeping Bannister.
And, yes, a year is enough time to judge a trade. Burgos may never ever again be an effective major league pitcher. TJ surgery is tricky and doesn’t work for all.
And, sorry, but as a fan I have the right to keep criticizing trades my team made that stink — especially when the GM who made the trade continues to make many questionable judgment calls.
And, no, I will never slam the Milledge trade as I supported the trade from the start. It was one of Omar’s best trades.
If you wait till Burgos ever becomes something till you judge the Bannister trade, then that might be forever. That makes no sense.
Just like it’s OK to judge the Church trade now, it’s certainly OK to pass judgment on the Bannister trade after 1 year.
And Omar’s job is to make both a short-term and long-term winner. While building a strong farm system and building from within. IMO, he’s only partially succeeded on one of those things — the short term success.
Omar isn’t a terrible GM. It’s just that he’s second rate. NY deserves better.
To fully judge the trade yea ill wait till burgos contributes something(if he contributes). And i agree KC right now got the better deal outta this just like we got the better deal for milledge. Im just not going to nail omar to a cross for making this deal because at the time the logic was fine to me. We are all fans and we are all here to express our opinions and engage in debates. At the end of the day your are entitled to your opinion and i am mine. I think while some of omars moves are questionable there is no doubt about how positive he has changed this franchise around. Its funny how quickly we forget 2004 and all the other years we were horrible. Now the expectations are so high that just the simple ups and downs of a season is making people want to jump off a bridge. I think omar has done alot for this team and has done more good than bad.
there is no doubt about how positive he has changed this franchise around. Its funny how quickly we forget 2004 and all the other years we were horrible.
I hate when people say that. Because that assumes another decent GM wouldn’t have done the same thing. And I don’t believe that to be the case.
In fact, I contend that if the Wilpons had hit a HR by getting a more competent GM like Josh Byrnes or Theo Epstein, then the Mets might have a WS title by now … or at least be in better shape than they are in now.
I didn’t forget 2004. I’m not jumping off a bridge. In fact I think with the current cast of players and a little tweaking, the division is still winnable. Though a WS title is highly unlikely.
But my concerns are more long-term. I don’t think Omar is the right GM to bring this team to the next level. And he’s hurt the franchise in some ways (the farm system).
I agree and while your concerns are placed in the long-term..other people higher up where concerned about winning now and thus they made the moves to win now. Of course omar had to sacrifice some peices to accomplish his goal of making this team a contender now rather than 5 years from now. Im with you that the mets need better scouting and better draft picks but for the last couple of years we have given up draft picks for FA and that has hurt retooling the farm. We should have won in 06 and needed to win there but i think the mets as well as most of baseball is thinking young.
Dirty … don’t you think the Wilpons want to win now and build a strong franchise for the future too? You can do both, and Theo Epstein is the proof of that.
we have given up draft picks for FA and that has hurt retooling the farm.
Theo and Cashman have given up draft picks by signing FAs as well.. But you know how they got them back? By offering arbitration to their own players who left for free agency. So Omar has to reconsider his practice of acquiring AARP players not only because they’re often hurt and unproductive, but also because they are unlikely to bring back draft picks when they leave the team. Either they retire or don’t rate highly enough.
i think the mets as well as most of baseball is thinking young.
When they gave Castillo four years, picked up Alou’s option year, and signed El Duque for two years, that is not thinking young.
But I agree. The trend for most of baseball is to get young and a big reason for that is without steroids and greenies anymore, older players just can’t keep up. So the Mets need to get with it and stop going the AARP way.
Matt, if this is true, is also reveals a lack of faith in Sanchez and Smith. I don’t think we should be looking for a set-up man. How about a frickin’ first baseman?
Agreed. Smith especially has been great, and we have some young live arms in the minors who I would rather see any day than the Turnbow-like “setup man” we are likely to acquire.
I think it has to do more with a lack of faith in Matt Wise.
i agree. Sanchez/smith/feliciano and even show have been good so far. Im sure hes just looking for a more live arm to help the bullpen right now. No dis to the setup corps, but we do not have a power pitcher reliever out of the pen…maybe thats what he is looking for idk but i doubt is lack of faith in the current relief corps…except for wise that is.
Do what real teams do. Call up the live power arm guy fro the minors (Kunz) and give him a shot.
Im hoping we will see kunz in september when rosters expand…hopefully it wont be too late by then.
July will be too late at this rate.
Wise looks terrible so far. Is this what he throws? What could possibly have enticed Omar to get this guy?
bullpen depth…
was it only a week ago or so that we heard that Smith might get sent down?
yeah, the one guy who was pitching well in the pen
someone needs to be fired, but it’s NOT Willie
it’s the guy making these ridiculous pitching decisions (and Marty Noble is no help, rubber stamping them)
whose idea was it to send down Smith –
who even gave that a thought?
and why aren’t we calling up all the guys in AAA with low WHIPs and giving them a try – we have the best AAA pen in baseball – some of these guys could be helping us now
how else to find out than by trying them one at a time
are we really that happy with this pen?
the guys who aren’t cutting it are the recent acquisitions – thanks Omar
Matt Wise (WHIP 1.69) has been useless
and Pedro Feliciano (WHIUP 1.57) hasn’t been the same lately – those guys should be traded, not Heilman
Schoeneweis has been good (but given his steroid issues maybe that means it’s time to move him if we can as well)
yet in the minors we have
Carlos Muniz – who has a WHIP of 0.50 HERE let alone his stellar pitching in AAA – HOW ON EARTH DO WE NOT FIND A SPOT FOR THIS GUY
Tony Armas Jr. – a proven quality pitcher with a WHIP of 1.02 – why is he not up here as well
Tim McNab – WHIP 0.97, Willie Collazo, Ruddy Lugo, Brian Stokes all also could be tried at some point, with a reasonable degree of confidence that one of them might be something
you don’t know if you try
the people making the pitching decisions for the Mets keep missing the mark
heath bell, Bannister, Kazmir, Heilman not starting
so tired of this
Matt Wise (WHIP 1.69) has been useless
and Pedro Feliciano (WHIUP 1.57) hasn’t been the same lately – those guys should be traded, not Heilman
wow………..
What is your obsession with Marty Noble?
Carlos Muniz – who has a WHIP of 0.50 HERE let alone his stellar pitching in AAA – HOW ON EARTH DO WE NOT FIND A SPOT FOR THIS GUY
Couldn’t agree more. If everyone in the current pen were outstanding, then it’s understandable. But they are not.
Failure to bring up performing minor leaguers to replace floundering veterans has been a major weakness of Omar’s since he’s been Mets GM. This is such a case. And Muniz had performed very well with the big club earlier this year.
I agree. Ive said rather then trading heilman, they should bring up muniz up here and give him a shot while heilman gets his act together…This would be the type of shake up this team needs…and more moves like it
Dirty .. the Braves are constantly re-configuring their pen throughout the year. Bringing guys up and sending others down. Why can’t the Mets be just as flexible? Part of the reason is that they give out ludicrous contracts to guys like Matt Wise. But then they should be willing to eat those contracts if necessary. And they’re not. So they stick with losing bullpens for the whole year — which is what I believe was the main culprit in their collapse last year. This is part of my frustration as a Mets fan. And I blame Omar for it.
Now can you PLEASE tell me because i have not gotten an answer from anyone….does heilman have options????
I don’t know. I don’t think many people know. From a reading of the option rules, it appears he might have options this year.
Regardless, I believe they need to do something with him. A trade may be the best route if they don’t have options left.
He has no incentive anymore to succeed as a reliever. He hates the role. And all the home crowd does is boo him. It would be best for both him and the clue to make a change.
that should read “club” not “clue” in the last sentence.
sanchez has not been good and has terrible velocity. he has been walking tightropes, to his credit, but we cannot expect him to keep doing it.
In the same article:
WAIVE GOODBYE: The Mets placed reliever Jorge Sosa on unconditional release waivers after failing to trade him. Sosa was designated for assignment on May 13.
It is actually a bit surprising to me that Omar wasn’t able to deal Sosa earlier in the season. He is a relief pitcher who is alive and not in the Mitchell Report, after all.
Just a bad move. He will go somewhere and start successfully and we will have alot of egg on our face.
Heilman would be covered in drool if NY were any closer to Oakland, so he must have some value.
Give him a chance to start in AAA, and if he succeeds, bring him up in August. I thnk he would be on the first flight to N.O.
This is silly. He never has had lower trade value. Send him down to AAA and fix him, get him a sport psychologist, etc. and bring up Muniz.
I’ll say what I’ve been saying all along … the Mets organization handled Heilman HORRIBLY, right from the start.
Watching Heilman pitch has become the most entertaining part of the season, IMHO. When else while watching the Mets can you GUARANTEE a HR to be hit and runs to score (albeit for the wrong team) than when Heilman comes in to pitch. Yet he continues to gets the call to pitch game after game…. It’s laughable at this point that he still is on the team.
CHECK, PLEASE!
PS… .500 team.
I sure there is a huge market for a middle reliever with a 7 ERA that gives up a homerun in every appearance.
At least Heilman has a 95 MPH fastball, even if it has no movement. Get rid of that slug Matt Wise who has been topping out at 84-85. Most highschool pitchers can throw that hard without warming up.
is Anna Benson still available?
loll yea lets trade for her…..i guess u kris benson can be a throw in lol
When I first read this entry, I thought, “Well it’s about time!” But then after thinking about it, I realized maybe he does have some value as a starter. And if he doesn’t perform up to par as a starter, after the Mets traded him, then it’s a great trade (barring the Mets receive some decent prospects). But, I agree with many gm’s, Heilman should be a starter.
Make it happen. I’ll gladly drive him to the Airport. I would like to have that guy on the cubs Marmol. Don’t know if the cubbies would let him go.
not the way he has been throwing the ball so far this year..
yeah..or maybe we can get Joba Chamberlain or Scott Linebrink for him…
lol how could u even suggest that we could maybe get marmol from the cubs? have you SEEN how this kid pitches? If we had a marmol type of pitcher on our team, you would punch someone in the face for even WHISPERING to trade him, much less for a HEILMAN…come on
Cubs could use starters. I just said I would like to have him, didnt say we’d get him. Yea i have seen how he picthes thats why I want him. As much as we all hate Heilman lets’ face it; he’s going to go somewhere else and then pitch a no-hitter. Never fails.
I would have liked to think they would have tried to demote heilman to the minors and give him a chance to work out the kinks in his mechanics(if that is the problem) but i guess since they dont think that will help this is the best move to do. I wonder what omar could snagg for heilman and while his stock is low, he does have stock if someone were to try and convert him to a SP. This should be interesting at the very least. Heilman is just one of alot of problems on this team….Hope omar got a few more in him….
Does he have any options left or would he have to pass through waivers?
Your know real ive been asking that for weeks and i cant get an answer and unfortunatly i have no way to tell on my own(not really good at contract options eligability). If you or anyone knows can someone inform Omar Minaya please..Thanks
All I know is that coming into the season he had 3.123 years of MLB service. Other than that I have no idea.
I hope some team is stupid enough to think this guy can be a starter….please oh pretty please Pirates or someone of that ilk…he’s great he throws a 90 mph fastball down the pipe and a 82 mph changeup that is a never a strike, he’ll be a great starter!!!
As for anyone who complains about “selling low” Over last summer I was the only one on this message baord crying for the Mets to trade him and everyone kept calling me lots of names because he was “too valuable”, now I never thought he would be this bad, I just never liked him in the first place, I don’t want whiners on the team I root for, and he is a grade A complainer.
I had hoped that the trade mentioned in the offseason of Heilman for Fuentes was true. Fuentes would have brought closer experience to the team and uh HE WANTED TO BE A RELIEVER. The fans here will never allow Heilman to be successful, he gets rattled by pressure too much to pitch in NY.
Maybe Colorado would still be interested in Heilman as a starter still under team control and would still trade Fuentes, a guy that is a pending FA I think. Or maybe another team looking for a salary dump such as Baltimore with Bradford. I guess Bradford would be over kill, however.
I forgot about that, however Fuentes is now closing for Colorado. Don’t know if they have someone else available to fill that position.
At this point do they care? I am sure that they won’t resign Fuentes and they are going now where. They are 10 games under .500. Heilman would give them a pitcher under team control. I think they would think about it.
would be nice to have a closer/reliever to setup the pen. So far a 2.29 ERA with 17K/8BB and 1 HR allowed, would be a sweet pick up for omar if he could pull it off.
I think we may have to through a potential guy in there. What else do they need?
They are in desperate need of starters so Heiman works there but we don’t have anyone else to send them in that department. Maybe one of the AA guys.
Fuentes took over the closing duties a few weeks ago from Manny Corpas, who took over for him late last year.
The way the Rox aren’t rolling right now, and previous apparent willingness to discuss Fuentes, he could definitely be available.
Speaking of mishandling relievers: Why on earth was Billy Wagner warming up in the ninth inning of game 2 when they were down 4 runs, tying run was not at bat, and there were 2 outs left before the obvious loss?
didn’t watch that part of the game as i was out to dinner, but are you sure he wasn’t just getting some throwing in, considering he hasn’t been in a game since Saturday?
To me and the guys in the booth it looked like he was warming up to come in to a tie game.
I wonder about a trade for Marte and Nady? Would the Pirates be interested in Heilman and one our hot hitting AA players? Those are 2 players up for contract renewal (Marte would make 6 million next season and you know Nady would make too much). They would get back 2 players under team control that could impact their team both this year and next.
I just hope Omar does not do a Kazmir type deal because of the pressure to win right now and fear of losing his job.
Omar is not Jim Duquette.
Wise the Met’s couldn’t care less. If he continues to struggle they will just DFA him.
I for one think that we really need to give Muniz a shot, look at his numbers while he was up.
4 innings 2 K, 2 H and 0 walks. Why not see if those numbers are for real?
I with ya Real. Ive been preaching that for a while now adding that muniz should replace heilman for a little bit while arron gets his act together..I dont know what omar is waiting for…
It has to be the options thing, or the fact that Omar has been trying to trade Heilman for a while and does not want to hurt his value even more?
John Rauch would be a good one-for-one, provided that the belief is that a change of scenery is all Heilman needs.
Rauch is signed reasonably through 2010. He’s not coming for Heilman.
Let the firesale commence. Along with Heilman they should try to unload Delgado to some stupid American League team as a DH. His 1.8 WARP3 could easily be replaced by the cheap Mike Carp. And Delgado’s terrible defense can easily be replaced by Carp’s terrible defense. I mean we have to pay for his lousy numbers either way, might as well try someone with a little upside. Fire Willie Randolph and give the job to either Howard Johnson or Julio Franco or possibly Valentin. Since Randolph has clearly lost the team. You can definately trade away Wagner and probably land quite a few good propects. There is always a team that “needs” a dominate closer. We can probably just promote someone from the minors to handle the closing duties. But seriously, the way this team is going that will be few and far between.
Hojo or Julio Franco, do you hate the team?
Why would we firesale when we are still in the hunt for the divsion?
I am ok with trading Delgado, Heilman and bench players but that’s about it for now. Now come July 31 and we are out of the race then sure.
Julio Franco. LOL WUT?
I wouldn’t be against a “fire-sale”, although I think certain players should be untouchable, but when you consider the contracts we have, and the production we’re getting, who on our team could we really trade and get decent value for?
WOW, you’re an idiot
Julio Franco?
He was a divisive figure while he was a player with the Mets. So, you want him to manage the team? Right.
maybe he wasn’t as divisive as we were lead to believe. maybe that was the impression of paranoid willie. we can’t ignore that this team was much better with him around, as much as he sucked on the field.
No, the reports that Franco was divisive did not come from Willie. They came from rumors surrounding the Latino/white player split last year … as well as reports from beat reporters. Willie was not the source of them.
Also, Valentin made a surprisingly candid remark about Franco after he left — saying something like his leadership role was overblown.
The team was much better when Franco was there because Delgado and Reyes were hitting much better then. And Franco was not the reason they were hitting better then.
You guys are going to kill me for this, but I just don’t think it is fair to Heilman to give up on him yet. He has been a key cog in the bullpen for the last three years. He has been one of the best set up men in the National League for the past three years. He has gone through rough stretches before and bounced back. I just think this team needs to show some loyalty and not judge Heilman based on 1/4 of a season. Reyes has been bad for much longer than that and nobody is booing him.
Heilman has been awful, but I think the team needs to give him a chance and stick by him. This seems to be very unpopular on this blog and in the media.
Heilman could be hard to move. In all probability what you’re suggesting is what’s going to happen, so it’s not that crazy of a notion. Bullpen performance fluctuates from year to year and when a reliever is having a good year they can be hard to pry from a team especially if they’re on a roll.
I can’t say however, that Reyes has been bad all year (we’re not even at the midpoint of the season)
I was dating it back to the second half of last year as well for Reyes.
I agree 100%
if you are gonna keep Heilman, or if you dont get “fair value” in your mind throw him on the DL….and call up anyone to be a long guy for a couple of weeks, maybe just being away will help his delivery/mechanic/head or whatever it is, but throw hi mon the DL he is just wasting a roster spot
or let him start which is what he wants to do. I understand they needed him for the bullpen the last few years where he was a strength at one time, but he should of had the chance before Chan Ho or Lima time. I think he cryed too much about it though so Willie and the boys decided to punish him and now its biting them on the @%*.
If you let him start and he fails then he has absolutely no trade value. Fact still remains that we need a reliable bullpen arm in his place.
I meant to add if Omar gets crappy offers for Heilman, then let him start. He just cant sell Heilman low because he is better than he has shown so far this year.
At last. What took them so long? They’ve mishandled Heilman since 2005 and he has no more incentive to succeed in the role he’s in now.
Can they unload Wise too? And Delgado? Delgado is just wishful thinking as I know trading him is almost impossible, but I think he’s a big detriment to this team right now. They could bring up Carp, Murphy or Evans. Seriously. Delgado’s only hitting .220. I think one of the kids can hit at least .220 as well and provide perhaps better defense. And at least they can start to find out if one of them can provide a stop-gap solution at first base next year.
“I think one of the kids can hit at least .220 as well and provide perhaps better defense”
And if they dont what happens then…You end up with a bigger hole than ya left it. Defense from what i understand is a problem for the 1b prospects. Yes i agree delgado is a shell of his former self, but history does not lie. Id rather ride out delgado for the rest of this season and hope he puts up avg numbers comparible to other 1bmen around the league and start new at 1b in 2009.
Guys as bad as they are playing they are over .500 and 2.5 games outta first. No need for a fire sale yet.
You have 3 kids to try out. I’m almost positive one can hit better than .220 and provide more energy and just as good defense. So if one doesn’t work out, you bring up another.
The problem with the Mets is they almost always go for the older washed up veteran to get a sure thing even if that sure thing is just a shadow of what that veteran used to produce (Alomar, Mo Vaughn, Delgado). In the meantime, organizations like AZ try to develop their own and have more patience than the Mets. And it often pays off. You have to take risks to try to develop younger players but the rewards are often better than the stagnant and declining veterans.
I don’t want a fire sale. But Delgado will continue to be a detriment to this team with his bat and his glove all year long.
I advocate selective tweaking at this point. Trade Heilman or send him down to start at New Orleans. Get rid of Wise (another poor Omar signing). And fix the first base issue. Bring up Muniz and one of Carp-Evans-Murphy. I’ll take my chances at that. I have no faith in Delgado for the rest of this season. None.
AZ is a COMPLETLY different market than we are. AZ has the time to develop those talents and a patient fanbase that can take a rebuilding/retooling season. We are a big market team that needs to fill seats and bring in revenue. Not saying its right…all im saying is its reality.
I have news for you. The calendar and clock in AZ is the same calendar and clock in NY. Time proceeds along the same continuum as it does in NY. The Mets have the same time to develop prospects as AZ does. But it takes good scouting judgment as well as patience and foresight from the GM. It’s not the fans who don’t have the patience. It’s the GM.
It’s is a myth that the NY fanbase won’t be patient with youth. They’ve showed with Reyes and Wright that they will be.
And if Theo can both spend on veterans and develop from within, why can’t Omar?
Enough with Delgado coming over as a shell of his former self. He had just finished his 2nd best year ever and followed it up in 2006 with a great season as well. No one would have predicted a complete fall off that happen.
You’re right that when Delgado came over he was still producing at a high level. But here’s the thing — at his age, it was highly unlikely he would continue to perform at that level for another 3 years. And his fielding has always been questionable and fielding also deteriorates with age.
So knowing this, Omar fails to get an adequate first-base backup, and puts even more age and injury risk on the team with Castillo, El Duque and Alou.
Having Delgado might not have been so bad if they also didn’t have the other age/health risks on the team at the same time. But they do.And it all adds up to lethargy and a laid-back team personality.
The joke is many expect Willie to change the personality of the team when it basically comes from the very nature of the players Omar put on it.
I can’t wait for Omar to trade Heilman, watch Heilman tear it up for another team and then listen to all the same people who killed Heilman kill OMar for making the trade (ala Heath Bell). So ridiculous.
Yeah Bell didn’t have a large fan club in NYC.
I dont know anyone who didnt like him. He was kind of quirky which New Yorkers love. I remember being frustrated when we traded him.
Question that you have to ask is
At this point can Heilman be successful in NY?
If you think yes then keep him. IF you think no then trade him for what you can.
It’s obvious that the boos bother him, he lacks confidence and will not regain it here. Right or wrong NY can be brutal. He could pitch very well for an entire season and give up one HR in the postseason and get booed his next time out (I wonder if that has ever happen). He will pitch well for a couple of weeks and give up a normal run and it will be the same thing all over again. At this point Heilman is Kaz Matsui, Delgado, McReynolds, Cedeno. Mets fans seem to like to focus on a couple of guys as the route of all evil. They will always see the negatives in these players and will never give them a chance. They will blame it on their facial expressions, a comment taken out of context, or “the big run” that they cost us. That’s just life.
What the Mets need to do is send Heilman done to the minors to get himself straightened. It’s worked for other pitchers before, why not now for Heilman. Remember how Steve Trachsel got things turned around after he spent some time in Norfolk?
who is going to trade anyone of value for heilman right now?
Trade Heilman to the Pirates for Damaso Marte.