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Coming off impressive victories against the Yankees over the weekend, it was important for the Mets to continue their momentum in
That momentum was halted yesterday by losing both games of a day-night doubleheader against their division foe.
For the past 11 months this team has continued their pattern of inconsistent play, in which they follow up a couple impressive wins with a stretch of lackadaisical, uninspiring play that may result in a change in the manager’s office.
This team has far too much talent to have a 22-21 record and play in such an inconsistent manner. Yes, the players do play the game and should take full responsibility for their on field play, however it’s the manager who sets the message and clearly Willie Randolph’s message may not be resonating in the clubhouse anymore.
And, now
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Mike, I agree with you 100%
i’ve supported Willie since the beginning, but….something has to change, a fire must be lit somewhere
I agree as well. The question for the Wilpons isn’t whether or not its Willie’s fault, but can this group turn it around amidst all the negative energy that surrounds Randolph at this point.
As a supporter of Willie, I believe they can’t at this point. They are already wilting somewhat under the immense pressure to win, he will likely drag them down with him.
Do the players a favor at this point, fire him and replace him with someone from within that the players know and will respect.
One of the more sensible post I have read in a while.
he said race, hes fired. just not right away.
otherwise he will say race again
Fire Willie!! Every team in the majors has talent and can have a few bursts of well played games. This Mets team still seems to still think they can click on when they want to. We need a fiery coach who’ll embarrass these slackers when they deserve it. I think Pedro’s pitching days are almost finished and he’d make a great manager.
Whoa, as it stands, Pedro is a player with no managing experience.
It isn’t an easy job & takes more than just a great character.
im with ya mike. I have defended willie for a while but its getting harder and harder to defend him. Its almost as if he is trying to make a case to get outta here.
Well said, Mike.
IMO this team is too talented to be mired in this mediocrity.
I’ve been a fan of Willie, but he should have been let go after last year. Not so much for the blame, but for the need of a change.
Sure Willie isn’t swinging the bats or running the bases, but it is his responsibility to have the team prepared, confident, loose and ready to play. Every game. Even after tough losses. Right now, they have no fight…no heart.
Getting rid of Omar, scrapping some players all might be needed, but let Willie go first……..
Couldn’t agree more. Willie is a heck of a nice guy, but he seems to be losing his mind and his wits. At this point he seems more concerned with blaming the media and the fans for his shortcomings then worrying about this team.
I think it’s defintiely time for a change, even if it’s just a for the sake of shaking it up.
Of course, everytime someone says this, people want replacements:
- Charlie Manuel
- Wally Backman
- Ken Oberkfell
- Gary Carter
JERRY Manuel!!!!!!!!! Charlie is fully employed elsewhere.
Sorry…I always brain fart that….My B.
his middle name is charles. Jerry Charles Emanuel Maneul III
Doesn’t matter….the Wilpons will not do anything about it. When have they ever been pro-active?
Last winter? Shelling out a lot of money to Johan?
I gotta say, the Wilpons have been great in the last few years in giving reign for Omar to spend money and make moves. In fact, because of all the money they’ve spent, I’d bet their more apt to pull the trigger to fire Willie.
And they were fair to Randolph in not making him the September scapegoat, they have nothing to be ashamed of in firing him now, it hasn’t worked out. There was just too much resistance. They also have nothing to apologize to the fans about if they make a change. They chose to give willie another shot with a short leash, it didn’t work out, his latest fight with the media has put a cloud over the club house, we acted quickly, we believe we can win, lets get past it.
A cloud would certainly be lifted from Shea, I would imagine.
The word “scapegoat” implies unjustly blaming someone for something that is not their fault.
Randolph was the Manager for the great Collapse of 2007. He doesn’t seem to remember anything about it, but I do.
You have got to be kidding? The Wilpons have done just about everything one can expect from an owner to build a quality team.
Unfortunately, I’m afraid I must agree. I don’t think switching managers is any kind of magic bullet, and I generally like Willie’s no-nonsense low-key style but there is just too much chaos and lack of focus on this team right now. Nothing short of a 10-2 run will right the ship, regardless of who the manager is. But the Great Collapse of Ought Seven is just too much for any first-time manager to bear, and it seems that he has collapsed under its weight.
Unfortunately I don’t see an heir apparent with clear leadership skills waiting in the wings. Hey I know – how about a trade with our cross-town rivals? He knows our division as well as anyone. And I’m sure Randolph wouldn’t mind the pinstriped uni.
Haha…not a bad idea. The Yankees can have Joe Torre light back and we can get the fiery, boot camp style of Joe Girardi to light a fire under these guys.
This light a fire thing is way over rated in my opinion. They need just the opposite, they need some pressure relieved. They are uptight and it manifests itself in pathetic baseball. They need some of the pressure relieved, there is only one card to play at this point. If it doesn’t work, well you have the rest of the year to get set for 09.
Clubhouse massages? Pepto Bismol? Gas X? What is the card to play? They need a fire lit.
Something worked for the Yankee series. If they can’t get up for the Braves, then they may as well no play at all.
Come on if Giardi can light a fire why are the Yankee’s in LAST PLACE?
I agree Real, Girardi would be the last answer. I especially do not want another Yankee
The Yankees didn’t want Willie to manage when he was there, or he wouldn’t be here. He would have been kept in the loop, much like Girardi was when he interviewed with the Orioles and then blew them off in an instant. The word around town was that the Yankees told him to sit tight because his future with them was looking bright. Willie never got that vote of confidence, because he was never getting the job.
And of course I’m not talking about the same time-frame before anyone brings that up. But before Willie came to the Mets he was the Yankees bridesmaid but never the bride. He stuck around there as long as he could, and it became obvious that he was never going to manage that team.
When Willie is out of here, his managerial career is over. Nobody is going to take the risk of being run through the media like the Mets have been this past week. He probably kissed a few TV gigs goodbye too, calling out the network and everything.
Makes you wonder if he has something else in mind, because he’s smarter than this.
aught seven
thanks for the correction, I aughta have gotten this one right
Nichols, you are saying that the losing is mostly willies fault?
No, I’m not saying Willie is the reason they are losing. I’ve always said players should take most of the responsibility, but obviously there is a disconnect between the manager and the players and that is something that needs to be looked at.
We are often told that baseball is a business. In the business world, if a business unit consistently underperforms and does not meet expectations, the blame is placed on the manager of that unit. In most instances, the manager of the underperforming unit is replaced, unfairly or not.
If baseball is a business, why should Willie be exempt from this fundamental business rule?
Heh, what you write sounds logical but is far from the truth. It failing business units managers are deftly able to reflect the blame to get promoted into senior positions, leaving the hardest working fools at the bottom to get sacked. So by this reasoning Charlie whatever, the clubhouse equipment guy, has the most to fear from this current slide.
Charlie Samuels. And you call yourself a Mets fan?!
;-)
How about we get in a fight with the phillies or braves….. nothing lacksidasical about a bench clearing brawl
I just want some fire, start treating baseball like a competitve sport and not just a walk in the park
Defending Willie? How can you defend this guy. I don’t care about his character, his previous experience, and even though he seems to think it is a big deal his race. The fact is this guy navigated the mets to the WORST COLLAPSE IN BASEBALL HISTORY. It actually boggles my mind that anyone could even think of defending him. The nail in the coffin was his interview where he became so paranoid that he actually tried to defend Herm Edwards and Isiah Thomas. Lets look this over. Edwards went 4-12 and demanded that he be allowed to coach in Kansas City with his buddies. If anything, HE wanted out of New York, not the other way around. And Isiah Thomas has presided over the worst stretch in New York Knicks history, while suffering through a humiliating lawsuit! I don’t care if ANY of these coaches were red, orange, or purple. The fact of the matter is Willie is such an awful manager that he won’t own up to the fact that he has no idea what he is doing as he weakly attempted to play something that isn’t there. Did he notice that when he was WINNING the media was a lot nicer to him? Holy cow! That might be it winning=success=the media laying off of you. Get rid of this guy now while the mets before the mets blow 08.
You can get rid of thing one, but you need to remove thing two, three, four and five as well.
The collection of Randolph, CEO, Alomar, DoDo, and Manuel, all bye
This team had a buzz going in 2006 and even 2007. Two major upcoming superstars in Reyes and Wright. Reyes considered the most exciting player in baseball. You could espect lots of homeruns and exciting finishes to games. You believed that they could always come back and win a game. Bullpen was light out. Willie though making some in-game mistakes seemed to have the team fired up.
That buzz is gone. The team looks disinterested. Another day, another paycheck. They make stupid baserunning mistakes. They are first ball swinging. Pitching is all over the place. No discipline at bat and from the pitchers.
When you can’t generate the buzz. When ticket sales start going down, when merchandise sales start goind down, the Wilpons will have to notice. The only buzz happening with this team is all negative. Fans are not happy, that equals poor sales and they have a new stadium to sell (at higher prices). When a coporation is deciding which box they want to buy – will they take Yankees or Mets. If they are selling at the same price, they will pick Yankees.
Bottom line, when it hurts the Wilpon’s bank book, expect changes.
Anyone ever consider that this team might not be as good as we all thought they would be? Without any consistancy from the starting rotation, how can we expect the team to win consistantly?
Willie shouldn’t be fired because this team was overhyped in spring.
If Reyes and Castillo get on and Wright, Beltran, Church, and Alou drive them in, Willie is a genious.
Willie will never be considered a genius. Even when they were awesome in 06, there were those days where you were left scratching your head at Willie’s moves.
Eaxactly! Why does everyone seem to forget this?
I remember in 2006 when they were running away with the division, people would call into the radio and complain about Willie’s head-scratching decisions at times. Then other people would call in and spout off the teams record, etc.
Meanwhile, the only constant in the discussion was the fact that willie had no freaking clue what he was doing at times.
While I think a change is needed, I agree with you. This team isn’t really as good as most fans think it should be. Do the Mets have a high payroll. Sure, but how much of that payroll is going to players who are injured and/or in decline (e.g., Pedro, Delgado, Castillo). Besides Santana and Wagner, name a player on this team with a long-term contract who is performing well on a consistent basis. Reyes, Wright and Beltran have had their ups and downs. Castillo and Delgado are in decline. Alou missed a month.
The one hitter who has played well all season is a guy who had something to prove (Ryan Church). Church needed to play well to justify the Milledge trade and prove that he’s an everyday player as opposed to a platoon player.
I think Delgado and Perez (and to a certain extent Pedro) have plenty to prove, not having guaranteed jobs next season. IIt’s early, they are showing some signs of life, and I hope we will be pleased with the results.
I think Santana, Wright and Reyes have plenty to prove, having just been signed to lucrative long-term contracts. They are going to have to live with us for years to come so they damn well want to make us happy.
Beltran has plenty to prove. For three years now we have heard about his “potential” but seen it in flashes. I am not looking for a firey personality, just to build on his numbers from ‘06.
Maine has a lot to prove – remember how we thought he deserved a shot at the All Star game last season? Well, honestly can you say that he is among the best now? Of course Pelfrey has to prove that he is for real, that our confidence was deserved.
And every single guy in the bullpen has to prove himself with every outing. Scho has to win us back. Wags has to justify his big yapper. Feliciano has to justify our confidence and Sanchez has to show us he was worth the wait. And Heilman has to save his rear end.
WOW!!!!
What does Easley have to prove? Just wondering. :)
Damion Easley now holds the record among active MLB players to have played the most games without reaching the postseason. You’d better believe he doesn’t want to retire with THAT record on his resume.
Well said.
why shouldn’t willie be fired? because it is boo hoo sad for him? this isn’t about him, it’s about the team.
managers of bad teams get fired all the time even though they aren’t the ones playing. and this isn’t even a bad team. life may not be fair but i bet $3M a year for not working sure makes it a little easier.
I’ve always supported Randolph and I don’t think a change in manager will make a difference. Usually, teams go on hot streaks immediately after a change like that, but it’s temporary. Then you have to search for a good credible manager, and who exactly is out there?
I think something has to be done with the team. It may take an influx of minor league talent, etc, but we all know that they may not be ready at this point. We need a consistent lineup and roster. Remember, in ‘06, the only significant player who went down during the season (besides Beltran for a few games) was Sanchez, then Pedro at the end of the season.
cliff went down…hence endy and milledge coming up…that was a pretty big injury
The Mets are rapidly approaching the point in time when they may need to blow this up. Move a whole bunch of players, get some younger less proven guys and go forward that way. O Perez, Delgado, Pelfrey, Sanchez, Heilman, Alou, Chavez, may bring some young guys back.
Perez and Pelfrey are young less proven guys, what are you going to do trade them for 17 year olds?
They don’t need to BLOW anything up
You’re willing to change this season into a rebuilding year when we’re still over .500 for the season? Do you realize how long a season is? Did you just start following this sport yesterday? Freaking out is one thing, but already accepting it and giving up in the middle of May is pretty pathetic.
Then again, you were speaking hypothetically with the “mays” so look who’s the pathetic one now, my bust! Oh, how much it hurts to watch this team… especially to get swept last night, you can’t imagine how much my phone’s been blowin’ up.
I have been a fan since 1975. I tell you I don’t see the glass as half full for this season. It may be, I just don’t see it. Reyes is enormously talented, but he has shown nothing lately except that he is maddingly inconsistent. Beltran seems to always be going at half speed because of some discomfort. Wright is rapidly degrading to Reyes level. These 3 with Santana and Church should be the foundation. Schneider/Wagner have been great but they are nearing the end of their effectiveness. Another year or two? Castillo was a bad signing as far as # of years go. Alou will be gone after this year, Delgado is done. Maine is a keeper, Ollie maybe. Pedro is done, El Duque will never pitch again. Where is the upside? Who is coming to the aid of this years team? Reyes and Wright and Beltran can turn it around and they must if the Mets want to be in the pennant race after the all star break. I hope they are, but I am willing to admit that it may not happen. .500 will not win the division or get the wildcard.
The champaign will taste so much sweeter in September
The spelling will be much better in October.
lmao
Bahahahah…
I used to post here the last few seasons under NYmets27, and i stopped posting last year because I was mocked as being a knee-jerk reaction, sky is falling mets fan by other posters, even in a few of matthew’s posts- not directed at me, but def. at me and other fans with similar opinions.
i’m just posting because well I guess I and a few others were right about Willie after all. His passive, its only one game, and inconsistent motivational tactics (if there are even any) have completely ruined this team. I have to be honest, I have never been a fan of Willie based on his inept in-game managing skills. He would be fine in a middle market American League team, but I have always felt he is no way no how a National League Manager, especially in NY. What he did have going for him in the beginning is that his players did seem to buy what he was selling. Last summer, it became more and more clear they were no longer buying it. I and others sensed this and pointed it out and were mocked constantly by other posters and even in posts made by matt. Well what now fellas? Sky still falling? Nah, it fell many moons ago, and the point we had been trying to make is to cut willie loose and stop wasting our time cause its just not gonna happen with him here. I guess you can say I am posting right now just to say I told you so, and I would agree.
So to darkstarr77, since86, constanza81and many more who jumped down our throats and jumped blindly to Willie’s defense- how ya livin in the 2008 mets season?
Willie is a joke and if he was my boss I’d laugh at him just like Reyes and i’m sure others must do when he isn’t around. His inconsistent approach with young players and vets was a major issue last year and the most important player on our offense has tuned him out for good and he isn’t tuning him back in. That has been obvious since last August. The fact that he NEVER comes to his players defense is unreal to me. If he was my boss, why should I bust it for him if he isn’t going to have my back?
I’ve always gone to about 10 games a year and watched basically every game with my heart in it my whole life- I’m talking watching til the 9th inning in the Diaz spoiling the Cubs playoff chances years. This year, I can honestly say my interest has plummeted because it has been so painfully obvious this is and has been a sinking ship, and i know i am not the only one. Its really a shame. See ya
Well, thanks for you I told you so, I would have held a lot more credibility without the ridiculous notion taht you think Reyes laughs at his manager when he is not around.
Willie might need to go because overall they need to shake up the entire coaching staff to determine if the players are actually alive, but with a two dozen newspaper columnists, probably a dozen broadcast reporters and countless independent outlets covering the Mets, you’d think that ONE might have tapped into this blatanta disrespect that you are sure exists between the manager and a star player.
The Mets play is enough to put Randolph in the crossfire without making stuff up.
i was not being literal. you are correct, i have not sat next to Jose and seen him chuckle. Rather than nitpick, how about the concept that there is and has been a major disconnection with Willie and this team, and I am probably not too far off on my assumption that Reyes tunes him out in particular. Lets be serious, sometimes you have to change your style up and adapt to your team a little instead of being so stubborn. Willie has always seemed hell bent on proving his way is the right way, sometimes at the expense of games and the actual correct moves to make, and its come back to bite him finally. Party in fishkill NY when this clown is gone.
Off topic, but as per David Lennon, Pedro’s bullpen session today was scratched. Apparently when he landed in Atlanta, he got word that his father suffered a setback this morning and headed to the DR immediately, and likely won’t be back for the Dodgers series.
Can’t imagine what he must be going through, basically watching his father succumb to brain cancer. Good luck, Pedro.
Sucks to hear that. Best of luck and best wishes to Petey and his family
I respect the opinions of those on this blog but this indictment of Willie Randolph for embroiling himself in a war against the media is nonsense. Willie pointed out facts – something which an increasing number of people, including Matt himself, apparently find irrelevant. It is true that SNY’s cameras do not look at Willie as much when things are going well as they do when an error is made or the team fails in some other way. WIllie did not blame the media for the team’s struggles or his own, he merely pointed out one factor that has resulted in the current perception of Willie as too laid back.
And Willie’s comments regarding race are well taken. It’s naive to pretend that race is not an issue, and to suggest that race had nothing to do with the perceptions of Isiah Thomas and Herman Edwards is ignorant. Willie was careful to say that Isiah did a bad job and that Isiah’s and Herm’s race did not result in them performing poorly – but it did work as a factor in producing the perceptions of them that may have ultimately resulted in them being fired.
This is not to say that Willie should be keeping his job – the team has underperformed and as manager, he needs to be held responsible. But his recent comments are accurate and he reserves the right to make them at any point. If they serve to his detriment, then so be it, but let us all be aware that Willie spoke the truth.
What about Willie’s comments that when he arrived “Mets fans were hiding”….I was never hiding, even in the Vince Coleman days, or Mo Vaughn era…I’m fine with everything else, but he wants to take a shot at the fans, he can kiss it. Get out, Willie.
Yeah that hiding comment really Pssed me off… I am with you even through fire cracker vince I wasnt NOT hiding…
Maybe thats the kind of Met fan Willy is… Yeah i am sure he was dancing in the streets when the Mets won the WS… Willy you are the defintion of bandwagon. I no longer feel any pity for you.
Please explain how race is an issue in Willie’s case ’cause I just don’t see it.
Race as a social issue is not just applicable to Willie, but to black coaches and managers as a group. Race is a factor in the general perception of Willie’s job performance for many people. Not necessarily the most important factor, or the deciding factor, but a factor nonetheless.
Oftentimes, we don’t see these things as issues because they are not our attitudes, and if that is the case with you I give you much credit, because Willie’s race has nothing to do with how the team performs and it shouldn’t be perceived to do so.
Herm quit and snaked out of town. he wasn’t fired. the Jets even got a 4th round pick for him. Learn your facts before making ridiculous assertions.
Thanks for your correction, but you can’t deny that the perception of Herman Edwards had changed, and you’d be ignorant to claim that race had nothing to do with it.
The perception of Herm changed in the 2004 playoff game against Pittsburgh when he played to lose and ordered his QB to take a knee (instead of trying to gain a few more yards on the ground) thereby putting his kicker in a tougher spot. The rest they say is history.
Oh, and the 4-12 season the year after didn’t help matters either.
I don’t argue any of that – but the fact that Herm is a black man didn’t help either.
I’m sorry I fail to see how race has anything to do with any of this discussion. Color me ignorant I guess.
as a jets fan, I agree with ghost…I really don’t see how anything other than his performance had to do with criticism of herm. I remember the media coverage and fan perception of him to be pretty positive, in fact, even while noting his sometimes-tactical ineptitude. And it arced like so many others have in NY…he won, got us to the playoffs, helped screw up a huge game, the honeymoon was over, he got more hostile to the media, terrible season, hello kansas city. personally loved him, til he did his snake-thing.
Playing the race card is non-sense you win in NY and you are a god. just win…
ewing
mookie
strawberry
osi
strahan
pierce
Cant tell me these guys are not loved in NYC…
Um, what did Ewing win? Sorry but I think I must’ve missed that season.
Willie, stop posting on metsblog and go do your job as manager!
“This is not to say that Willie should be keeping his job – the team has underperformed and as manager, he needs to be held responsible.”
You took the easy way out Woosy Bear.
Thank You.
Sure I took the easy way out…Couldn’t help myself…
But you also buy into the whole SNY conspiracy and this ridiculous use of the race card by Willie. It’s a joke. None of it holds any merit in reality or can be substantiated by any real evidence….
Willie should know by now, as a New Yorker, that he needs to be more careful when speaking to the press.
That SNY shows him after a bad play is true. It isn’t a “conspiracy.” It happens to be what every network does in every game.
Willie’s mistake (or perhaps paranoia) was to suggest something insidious on part of SNY in particular, rather than to say something like “Remember, fans never get to see all of what a manager does. Watch any broadcast of any team, and they’ll show the manager of the team that commits an error. That’s their job and I understand that, and many managers share the frustration that how we are perceived on television doesn’t tell the whole story.”
That said, I wish he wouldn’t say anything about this non-topic. Get your guys playing better ball and no one will call whether you are stoic or firey.
I can certainly agree with that.
I’ve wanted Willie gone for a long, long time. I would have to think if the Mets tank the rest of this road trip, he is gone.
To anyone who thinks that firing Willie would be a mistake, I ask you this: Hypothetically, if Willie got fired tomorrow, exactly who/what teams are going to be beating down his door for his managerial services? My answer would be: no one.
Fire Willie, let Jerry Manuel (not Charlie Manuel like some people think his name is) manage the rest of 2008, and conduct a real search when this season ends.
Nice Name Man. Haha!
Haha, right back at you brother
today’s posts should just be one giant thread
Fire HoJo!!! I dont care how good he was as a player for this team, he has got to be the worst hitting coach in baseball, I mean our top 3 superstars (Beltran Wright Reyes) all forgot how to hit the day this guy showed up as hitting coach
I mean we’ve all come to grips that Rick Down shouldnt have been fired, but after the fact, we shouldve gotten a real hitting coach, not HoJo.,
Rickey Henderson is gone and Reyes still swings at bad pitches and clearly drops his elbow and looks kinda lost…so we cant blame him, you can Blame Willie but Reyes was great for a couple years under Willie, he’s had like 3 good games since Hojo.
And Hojo turned Church into a much better hitter by tweaking his stance, swing and over all approach.
If Beltran, Reyes and Wright need help from a hitting coach after they already had great years than they are doomed as hitters.
Last time I checked, Wright hit .325 30 Homers and 100+ RBI last season, mostly under HoJo. He deserves some blame, but not all of it.
And Reyes went from a budding superstar to Rey Ordonez with power under HoJo…
Billy Wagner should be the manager. Apparently, he is the only one who can light a fire under the team’s collective backsides.
I think we should all bring strawberries for WIllie.
Not in honor of Darryl, but the Caine Mutuiny. He’s delusional, paranoid, mentally unstable and has lost control of his ship. Time for the XO to take over.
guys give Willie a break!! He is a proven champion that has brought that mentality to the Mets. His comments show a leader in every sense of the word. He a fantastic on the field manager and getd the most from his players.. Why can’t you just let him do his job. Last seasons collapse was no big deal. At least we are a part of history now. Thats more than I can say for Bobby V. I wish you would all just calm down. This is our last season at shea and we need a manager to bring us back to our roots. If you believe enough we can go out of shea like we went in. So lets allow him to do this for us. Stop trying to ruin his life. He has children to feed. Our young players need to learn more of the Willie way before he leaves. I suggest one on one time with all the players, where willie can talk to them about life. just chill out people.
Last I checked, it doesn’t cost $3-4 million to feed your children. That’s a joke.
Are you alright dude? Is this WIllie himself?
The guy isn’t poor and he’s a man, not a 12 year old kid
If you believe what you wrote then you’re as delusional as Willie.
Who’s trying to ruin his life? I want him fired as the manager of my team. And if he does get fired, he collects like $1.5 mil next year. He’ll feed his kids, don’t worry.
He is a proven champion? Not as a manager.
He gets the most out of his players? Reyes has been in a funk for almost an entire 162 games. Delgado looks like my grandmother out there at first base. Please. You get the most out of your players when you have an OF of Benny Agbayani, Timo Perez and Jay Payton and you make the WS.
and lose, which is the same end result that we have had for years in Queens…so whats the difference?
That’s not the point. The point is this team is much more talented than the 2000 team, yet this team hasn’t been to a WS, and the 2000 team has at least tasted one, albeit in a losing effort.
And if Timo Perez hustles from first, totally different series. Had to get that in.
Are you saying that Bobby V could not get his players to hustle?
Aren’t his kids adults? I need to feed my kids. That’s a much more pressing issue, I assure you. (My twins turn 3 today!)
Happy Birthday to your kids!
Thank you!
I still just can’t believe that Willie actually brought up the worst executive in sports history and semi-defended him. I mean, Jesus. At least Herm was an affable guy, he was just a poor strategist and managed the clock like he never coached a game before. Isiah deserved (deserves) to be tarred, feathered and put on a one way ticket back to Detroit. Apparently it’s the only city that still loves him.
Again, Herm was not fired. He snaked his way out of town to KC because he saw the jets ship sinking. The Jets even received a 4th rounder for him
I realize he wasn’t fired, I was just referring to the two coaches Willie was talking about. Kudos to the Jets for actually getting something for Herm.
I watched the first game of the double header when I got out of school, and honestly it didnt bother me that they lost the first game because for once the mets didnt really kill themselves like usual. They just got beat. I thought the worst part of the day was heilman giving up a homerun when already down by 3. I mean, the guy needs to get outa dodge..he doesn’t look the least bit concerned that he has pitched worse than any of us could have imagined. The fact that any team wants him still amazes me. After the game, however, seeing that the Mets didnt look the least bit phased by their loss (other than John Maine, who with Church has pretty much been the only Met that actually look like they care about baseball), I decided not to watch the second game. Im glad I didnt, as the mets couldn’t beat a rookie starter…in fact they were downright confused. I’ve been a Willie supporter for the entirety, and I really dont know if bringing in a new manager will really do anything to light a fire under these guys. A good example of this has to be the ‘03 Marlins who fired their manager midseason and won the whole thing, but that team was young and fiery. This mets team is aging, and other than a few young guns, they play old. David Wright is by far my favorite Met, and honestly i’ve been disappointed by his play time and again. His defense has been awesome, but he was once the guy that we thought would always get a hit when it mattered, and he really hasn’t followed through with that one. It just feels like firing Willie is going to happen, and its a “not if but when” situation, I just cant see the mets really doing anything if it happens. Hopefully this crappy situation changes and the mets rip off a streak, but its hard to believe that it will happen right now. Sadly, I’ve adopted a new idea that i basically expect them to lose every game, so when they actually win I feel much better about it.
Also, if Willie is fired, who do they replace him with? I’m not saying there isn’t anyone, but I really have no clue on who could fill in and be effective. Haha we should bring back Bobby V and his mustache. As always, Lets go mets….
You think Hojo fixed Church? Theres no way that playing everyday fixed Church? he was always a good hitter, but they always played him 3-4 days a week because they just said “he cant hit lefties because hes a pull hitter”…hes still a pull hitter and Willie said “go hit lefties” and Chruch reponded
Hey btw, Chruch is exactly the kind of player that Bobby V wouldve ruined by playing him 3 days a week and switching him out in the 7th inning of games to play butch huskey because he was a big “matchup” guy.
If they fire Willie so be it…but if should be after Hojo, he is the biggest problem right now. How much can we pay Dave Magadan to leave Boston.
You fire the staff to shake the mental status of the players, nothing more nothing less, do you REALLY think that Dave Magadan is going to come in and suddenly the light bulb is going to come on for the hitters?
You couldn’t be more on point Mota.. Let me tell you.. You speak the truth. Your points on Bobby V are so dead on.. Let me tell you.. If there was a hall of fame on Metsblog you would get my vote. Your uncanny in you opinions and often wonder if your not the most informed mets fan. Great work as always Mota
sounds like a mancrush; jk.
So, when a player hits poorly its the hitting coaches fault, but when a player hits well its all by his own doing?
Very logical. I guess you also discount Church himself saying numerous times he has wholeheartedly adopted HoJo’s approach and its helped?
Do you discount the very same player saying Willie is the best manager he has played for and the locker room is fine?
No, I don’t, since I don’t care if Willy gets fired and I never said the club house was in disarray.
Unless you are referring to my Wagner comment which was tongue in cheek.
WHen does Pagan come back because Chruch is heading for the DL….also, what an idiotic move on his part last night on a meaningless play where the guy let go of the ball 4 sec. before he ran into his knee, I mean just stupid, and i love Church and I love hustle but that wasnt hustle it was stupididy and its gonna cost the Mets at least 15 games without him.
I think you should see that play from another angle, and his effort on that take out slide was exactly what people kill other players on this team for not doing.
He could have gotten down more but jeez.
I think if you look more closely, Escobar was too far away from the bag at that point, and Church slid at a normal spot to slide in. It was just bad timing/luck all around.
for chirst sake, can we shut up about the race thing? Willie was explicitly asked if race was an issue, and it wasn’t like he was adamant about it, saying something like, “yes, its race, they’re all racists, they hate me because i’m black” that is so far from what he said and yet everyone is making it out like he came out of the blue and said something like that. Why does anyone care about this sh*t? People call Willie sensitive and whiny, just take a look at yourselves. The fans are just as senstive and b*tchy as Willie is.
thats right Darkstar.. you tell them. Willie never said one thing about race. He was just referring to the strange similarity of African American managers that have all recently been under fire for terrible managerial skills and how unfair its been because they all are African American. He was just saying that he believes mets fans don’t like him cause he’s African American.. How is that talking about Race guys?? Please explain how he’s pulling out the race card.
Great stuff darkstar. Jerry would be proud
Hey Doc, again I think that Darkstar was saying that Willie was answering questions frankly. I am sure that it is some where in between just like almost every other issue on here that people take extreemes on. Are there some Mets fans who are racist and want a white manager? I am sure there are. Are they representative of the entire fanbase? Of course not. It seems like on here every thing has to be black and white clear cut when life is some where in the middle.
So how do we as Mets fans get beyond this Willie issue? Since the players don’t come out and give 100% every night, I find it almost impossible to change the subject from Willie to blaming the players. I feel thats what a manager is there for. To motivate and inspire and to lead. So my question to you guys is how do we get beyond this.. Should we just go into denial in order to change the subject on Metsblog. Because its really getting ridiculous now. If the organization doesn’t make a change we can’t continue this every day for the rest of the season. So what should we do? Stop talking about the team? go into denial and pretend everything is alright?
meant to post this at the bottom.. not meant for just you thereal
NOTE FOR WILLIE
THE ONLY RACE MET FANS CARE ABOUT IS THE PENNANT RACE….MAYBE YOU SHOULD TOO
That is true in general but why do we have countless posters that complain about Latin players being signed?
I don’t think it’s “countless” – maybe three or four with a couple sock monkeys that post an awful lot. The rest of us care about results and attitude more than skin color or country of birth.
As far as Willie’s comments to this guy O’ Connor this guy must have a wish to be fired. First of all this fan has been a Mets fan before Wilie and will be one after his departure. The nerve have of him to say that the Mets fan came out tof the woodwork when he took over is absurd. I lived through the days of Uncle Art, Bobby V and Dallas Green. Second re garding his race comments, Willie should know that many Mets fans were fans of the Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants who gave Jackie Robinson , Monte Irvin respectively the opportunity to play in the major leagues. Perhaps he should also know that it was the New York Yankees , not the Mets, that were the next to last team to integrate because thay did not want to alienate their white clientele from White Plains. As for his problem with SNY, SNY is just the messenger —and owned by the people who sign willie’s checks.
Art Howe’s style was headscratching….Willie’s is maddening….just maddening.
I’m glad most people are finally coming around. If they had just fired him after the Collapse, we could be discussing baseball today.
Or the firing of a new manager that was also unable to turn around the collapse or we would have moved on to Omar.
I don’t know if this comes from the manager or if the players are soft but the Mets haven’t had a swagger since May of 07. Top to bottom the Mets are 6-10 games better than the Braves but the Braves act like they are better than us. I don’t know if that comes from their best player or manager but the Mets seem to lack confidence.
Actually looking at runs for and against and their expected wins the Braves should be about 15 games above .500.
Look Willie is the scapegoat for everything that is going wrong with the Mets. As well he should be, such is the life of a manager or coach. It comes with the territory and he should expect it.
I agree with this post 100%
It’s taken me a while to get to the point, but Willie needs to be let go
I’m in favor of Willie being fired, but let’s consider this:
If there is a disconnect between Willie and the players, then is letting him go really gonna shake them up?
how do we as Mets fans get beyond this Willie issue? Since the players don’t come out and give 100% every night, I find it almost impossible to change the subject from Willie to blaming the players. I feel thats what a manager is there for. To motivate and inspire and to lead. So my question to you guys is how do we get beyond this.. Should we just go into denial in order to change the subject on Metsblog. Because its really getting ridiculous now. If the organization doesn’t make a change we can’t continue this every day for the rest of the season. So what should we do? Stop talking about the team? go into denial and pretend everything is alright?
ladies and gentlemen, let me present to you dr jones, the Mets should fire Willie so that us fans can have something new to talk about on a fan-site message board….Omar, please hire this guy as your future replacement!!!!
New topics for Matt to post on for the benefit of him and otehr fans who believe Willie should be fired and their reasoning is simply “because I want it”:
1. where does Carlos Beltran get his hair styled?
2. How many dimples does David Wright have?
3. 50 ways to leave Jerry Manuel’s lover
4. Aaron Heilman is being unfairly characterised as a terrible pitcher
enjoy.
I can’t believe I am doing this but Doc does have a point. How do we as a fanbase get beyond the lack of confidence we have in the team. Whether it’s Willie or not it’s clear that the players and the fans have lost confidence and struggle anytime there is pressure.
I for one don’t care if Willie is fired or not although I would give it a try just to see if it made a difference.
However, I wish it would go ahead and happen so I can get back to enjoying this blog.
you don’t enjoy this at all? c’mon.
And finally jones, for every Timo and Agabayani who played well under Bobby V for 1/2 of a season each (even though they were on the mets for years) there was Ventura, Zeile, Olerud, Payton, Alomar, Mo Vaughn and Derek Bell, all of whom had good mlb careers and they played at their worst under Bobby V and have no problem saying it, veterans hated the guy so get over the mancrush from 03, you can blame Phillips for brings ome of them in, but maybe, just maybe, they couldnt play for Valentine cause he was a jackhole….the guy had a worse record as a Mets manager than Willie has and he never won the division even, I just dont get the mancrush. I understand he went to the WS in a year we were lucky to see the Braves lose to the Cards in the NLDS, if that hadnt happen we lose to the Braves in the CS like we always do.
Mota I have no clue how you got all that from what I just said. All I was trying to say is that it would be nice to be able to get back to baseball talk instead of spending the entire summer going back and forth about Willie. Thats it.. very simple.
I would really like to know what you feel is going wrong with the team..
Is it your constant FIRE HOJO talk. Do you really believe HOJO is responsible for this teams lack luster play? I mean what do you think will get this team going in the right direction. We can’t fire or release the players, so what is the alternative? Fire another hitting coach? Then Willie would of had 3 different guys. Come on,, When is it going to be time for Willie to take responsibility?
I don’t understand your Bobby V stuff at all and don’t even want to hear how you explain to me that Mo Vaughn’s struggles are Bobby V’s fault or for that matter Roberto Alomar.
Lets hear some thoughts on ways to get this team turned around. I personally believe its the manager. I may be wrong but it’s my opinion,, What yours?
Turn the team around? I hate to say it but my only logical idea is to wait it out, I mean you can do 87234982739487 things and if Jose Reyes cant hit (or take a walk) anymore then this team cant win, we didnt win when Willie came around, we didnt win when Beltran came of age, we won when reyes was MVP caliber…its just that simple, unfortunately, it seems he stopped hitting around the day Rick Down was let go…so…thast where I’ve drawn my conclusion
As for the Bobby V stuff, that just comes from 6 years of watching the guy bungle games, watching players look dejected and just overall dissatisfaction of watching that team play, watching the 06 Mets was like watching a work of art, wactching Bobby V teams wer elike watching a team win despite itself, and i guess that “despite” was Mike Hampton in 00 and to be honest Armando Bentize during the regular season for a stretch there…
I had to read o nthis site for weeks how great Bobby V was because he won a WS with what some people considered was a mediocre team..compared to Willie’s teams but lets be honest the 00 team was more postseason prepared then the 06 team when we a green John Maine was out #2 and OP who was 3-13 was our #3 pitchers…I mean lets be realistic
My argument remains if you think firing Willie because of 07s collapse or because you think change for change’s sake, or just that you alwasy hated Willie, just come up wit ha legit reason to argue and not “fire Willie…cause of 07″ its 2008, we all know why this team is struggling, and we know its the players, i see no reason to fire Willie, you do, leave it at that
But I thought Bobby V was a terrible manager. hah
i dont love Willie, fire him for all I care, but enough with Bobby V, he cant get a job in the states for a reason….
I completely agree Mota. I never have understood why so many fans want to belittle the talent of a very good 2000 Mets team just to make Bobby V look good.
quick…name the 3rd and 4th starters on both the ‘99 and ‘00 teams.
The longer it takes you, the more it speaks to Bobby V’s ability to effectively manage and get the most out of his players.
these statement are ridiculous.. You don’t know what your talking about.. Why would you even make this statement
“enough with Bobby V, he cant get a job in the states for a reason”
Bobby V was asked over and over to come back and interview for jobs. The Dodgers basically gave him the job but he turned it down and also the Devil Rays. You constantly do this. Get your facts straight.
Yes, and he was offered mcdonalds pay to come back…which means they only wanted him if he would manage for cheap…yeah, if I was Fred Wilpon and asked Bobby V will you manage my team for 100K/year and he said yes, I would give him the job and take that 2.5 mil saved by hiring a real coach and spend it to buy out Delgado.
Like I said, Ill give you Benny & TImo, but we had a great rotation and bullpen…I heard pitching wins championships…unfortunately offense wins in may…DOH
i have come to the realization that it doesnt matter what willie says. it doesnt matter even if every met fan is racist dumb and blind. i can evaluate it simply: with the talent on this team, the mets should be more competitive and if they arent, the manager should get fired. in other words, win. thats the only thing he should be preoccupied with. not how he is portrayed. not how he is treated by the fans. taking that job, he has to learn, its just about winning.
so go win.
ghobot, you are absolutely correct.
I think this team should be better than this, in almost every aspect which is why I sometimes think Willie should go (although there are no better alternatives to replace him with)
However I tend to defend Willie to the people who just believe Bobby V shouldve never been fired or the people who would be calling for Willie to be fired if the Mets were 32-11.
Maybe since all you ladies have played the “fire willie” thing out, you should start working on the next thing you can B&M about? What’s next? Maybe Reyes adjusting his jock too much? Or Wright making occasional wide throws to first?
I’ve never heard a bigger bunch of complainers in my life! The players didn’t hit, pitch or field well yesterday, either.
Support your team: stop being cry babies… sheesh.
yeah, i am also beginning to believe the only industry america leads the world in now is complaining.
blogging during work hours. we have that industry cornered. a phuking monopoly. hands down.
“Maybe since all you ladies have played the “fire willie” thing out, you should start working on the next thing you can B&M about? What’s next? Maybe Reyes adjusting his jock too much? Or Wright making occasional wide throws to first?
I’ve never heard a bigger bunch of complainers in my life! The players didn’t hit, pitch or field well yesterday, either.
Support your team: stop being cry babies… sheesh.”
How many times are you going to post that today? If you don’t like the posters here, just leave. You’re doing more whining than anyone on this thread. Who’s keeping you here?
Not you and your “It’s my way or the highway” attitude. You’re the biggest of the freakin whinners on the site.
And, though I’m sure you’re uninterested in anyone who could give two sh**s about your opinion, I come here out of habit because this used to be a site with insightful and interesting comments. I still hope that you’ll take a break and climb back into the sewer you came from so we don’t have to hear your B&M.
“Not you and your “It’s my way or the highway” attitude. You’re the biggest of the freakin whinners on the site.”
Yeah, right. The guy who goes to every game, never boos anyone on the team, tries to convince everyone that the best thing the team can do is win WITH Willie in place. That’s me! Mr. Negative Whiner Guy!
You are obviously thining about someone else, troll.
That should say you are THINKING about someone else. But you’re still a troll. And you couldn’t spell “whiner”, so it’s all good, loser.
Miss Shea,
Don’t get your skirt in such a bunch! You should be working on what you want to biatch and moan about next. Because little Miss Shea’s like you are never happy unless their crying about something.
And if “troll and loser” are the opposite of you, then I’ll gladly be them.
And by the way, paying for tickets and going to Shea, which is something I happen to do also, does not entitle us to expect wins every night and championships every year. Your constant belly-aching about the Manager is tired. If I’m a troll for pointing that out, well then, I’m a trollin’.
Sorry if there are any spelling errors, sweetheart.
Belly-aching? Saying the team should win with him? Saying he should not be fired? Um, yeah I think you ARE thinking about someone else. And you are a troll. You also use more than one name here. Very lame.
That picture is a negative portrayal of Willie because it is him sulking in the dugout. Where are the pictures of Willie slapping his guys’ butts?
(tongue-in-cheek)
Tom Coughlin should be the next manager.
Not long term. Just interim. Rent him for the summer.
Funy thing is, and as ridiculous as ti sound….you are likely reading this and nodding your head.
the last person i knew to protest this much about how he was portrayed was tom coughlin. i hope willie talks to him.
Coughlin didn’t bring race into the mix. Willie’s already dug his grave.
Well he did say it was tongue-in-cheek.
Honestly, though. Willie was MORE wrong to do that. If he believes there is something racial going on, he should have stuck to his guns. Now it just looks like he was talking out of his ass. If there was really something going on, he should have said what it was. It’s a serious charge to make, and claiming you weren’t serious later on doesn’t undo the damage that’s done. And if there is something that bothers someone as high ranking as the manager in regards to race, as a paying customer I would have liked to have known what it was. If there’s really something there, I would stop supporting them. A lot of people would.
is anyone here denying though that he did say that the hatred being racial was a “small thing”. is there anyone denying that it is a small aspect to the willie hatred?
They could hire Darryl as Manager. We can bring it back to 86…when the whole team was blowin lines and partying…Well, the key was that they were having a BLAST…no pun intended(well, ok there was)and winning ball games. Clearly, Im not serious about hiring Darryl,but it would be funny. The point Im trying to make is no matter who manages this team, the idea is to have fun again…do homerun handshakes, put funny disguises on in the dugout, stop taking everything so seriously…Put last year behind! Have FUN AND START WINNING AGAIN
do you really think that darryl strawberry can be a coach or wants to be a coach?
Ugh it’s just so frustrating with this team. I have been waiting for the Mets play to play since the end of last season’s collapse, after suffering through the Knicks and Jets all year. I honestly thought they would go to the world series, Santana would win 20 games, Beltran and Delgado would have monster years and I was totally wrong. Yeah I know it’s May, but it’s just so damn frustrating. All the talent is there for them to be so good and yet nothing is happening yet. Is it Willie’s fault? Well most of it is, but a new manager I honestly think will not knock sense into Reyes, won’t fix Castillo’s knees, won’t help Delgado hit, and won’t help this bullpen too much. Damn I wish this team would snap out of it.