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Many fans and pundits are calling for Willie Randolph’s head right now, blaming him for their “mediocrity”.
But, is it fair to blame Willie for being stuck with a team of immovable, underperforming players? He can’t bench (nor trade) Carlos Delgado, for example. He can’t heal Luis Castillo’s knees. He has little choice other than to wait for Carlos Beltran, David Wright, and Jose Reyes to work out of their funks. This isn’t football, so a pep talk is useless.
Similarly, there isn’t much Willie can do to prevent middle relievers from throwing gopher balls. To his credit, Willie has recently mixed and matched the arms out of the bullpen well, and pushed his starters to go deeper in games.
Take a look at the Detroit Tigers, who many pundits believed were the most talented team in all of MLB. Many “experts” agree that Jim Leyland is one of the best managers in baseball, yet his team is in dead last. Is it Leyland’s fault that last year’s “phenom” pitchers can’t get outs in 2008? That Gary Sheffield is hitting .180?
While the Mets are not playing consistently, it’s only 43 games into the season. The Mets are 2.5 games out of first, and above .500 despite the struggles of “key three” — Beltran, Reyes, and Wright. That’s a sign of optimism, not panic. Eventually, those three will get going — regardless of the manager — and the offense will be fine. Add that to the return of Pedro Martinez, and the future is looking bright.
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A brave man, that Joe Janish.
Yea…he was a good guy…to bad hes about to get ripped by all the negative bloggers…..
Well I never even thought about the Tigers issues…I think that was a great counter point to begin with, and kind of echos the thoughts of a few of us here, in that regardless of whether Willie gets axed or not, a managing change may not be the cure-all remedy this team needs.
There isn’t a cure-all remedy. It’s not that simple. You have to act with an understanding that you don’t have all the facts and can’t know in advance what’s going to happen. If you think you have the talent to win and are underachieving, there’s nothing wrong with changing managers. Don’t hang the guy out to dry, but tell it like it is — it’s probably not the right fit.
Wow Joe where can I get whatever your smoking???????? Optimisim that train left last September. Why cant Willie bench Delgado? Willie can effect the bullpen giving up runs stop putting Heilman and Sosa in close games. Bottom line is Willie is a major distraction right now and he needs to move on up to the Bronx.
For the same reason you can’t bench a guy like Frank Thomas. They won’t be happy. You either release Delgado and eat his contract, platoon him, or play him every day.
But even a platoon he’s likely to be unhappy with. And you better have a reliable backup at first base before you consider a platoon.
Who cares if Delgado is unhappy? If he doesn’t like the bench, then he has to do what it takes to get out of his 1 1/2 season funk. He’ll still make his money so it’s not like he’s losing anything but playing time. If he improves, he’ll get it back. Putting him in the lineup everyday isn’t helping him.
We also kept hearing the same garbage last year about the offense and how they’ll “be allright” It’s now 43 games into this season and they still haven’t turned it on. When’s it gonna happen?
Willie created this new mess by himself. His players have to deal with it. Willie has now become a distraction and it is time to go. It’s not his fault his players haven’t performed. Omar has to take the blame for that but whatever Willie is doing is not working and a change is necessary. His players (at least a few of them) have tuned him out. After telling Wags to keep his problems “in house” he went and publicly ranted again.
im thinking i should just cut myself off from all media….any form. watch the game on mute. cause im honestly tired of all this
I’m with you ..
Amen, exactly right.
well, why CAN’T HE BENCH DELGADO? joe.
because you say so?
it it a physical impossibility to put marlon at first?
down 8-2 and he’s just chillin’, joking around-
i’m sick of it.
i make 50,000 a year and believe me, I’M HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
who does this site REALLY represent? i’m starting to wonder
This “FUNK” has been going on since last June.
Idea…trade Willie to Detroit for Leyland
Jimmy will never come to the Mets as long as Shea is smoke-free.
Agreed. I am not happy with the team right now. But lets not forget in 2004 the Red Sox played .500 ball until August, then tore it up in the last 6-8 weeks of the season to win the series.
Yea, and let’s not forget that in ‘07, the Mets played .500 ball after June, and lost the division by a single game. I don’t know how the Mets stack up against the 04 Red Sox, but I do know they’re pretty much the same group as the 07 Mets, so , genius, which outcome do you think is more likely? Enough with the optimism, enough with the apologists. I was a Cowboys fan at one time until the switzer years of firearms, hookers, drug suspensions, etc. I have not watched more than a couple of NFL games since. Even when Romo came in and the boys looked good again, there was no going back. I have followed the Mets longer than any other sports team, through good and (mostly) bad, and never considered giving up until now. I spend hard-earned money for my extra innings package and many trips to Shea, I spend valuable time following every game, the offseason rumor mill, and spring training. I have traveled to Port St. Lucie from PA to watch games that don’t count up close and personal. This team is truly awful, the worst I’ve ever watched as a Mets fan. They should be playing so much better than they are. Willie should have been fired at the end of last year at the very least,and probably didn’t deserve the job in the first place. The Mets are disgusting right now, and so are all the fans who think Willie does a fine job or that it’s OK because we’re only a few games out. You are every bit as pathetic as the team is. I’m done with the Mets until Willie is replaced, and I urge everyone who feels like I do to do the same. Maybe if the ratings, the attendance, and the merchandise sales suffer as much as real Mets fans have, then the front office and ownership will finally try to set things right-only by then we’ll be 10 games out
The NY media is horrendous and it has gotten out of control with all the blogs and bs gossip every day.
I am not convinced the offense is going to be fine. Also who says Church and Scheidner are going to continue to hit .300. Delgado is what he is at this point. A less than .250 hitter with some pop and horrible obp. We’ve waiting for reyes to return to his first half of ‘07 for the last 2 months of ‘07 and the first two months of ‘08
Joe, you know I love you and all, but comparing Randolph’s situation to Leyland’s is, well…… a poor comparison, imo. Leyland has a track record, he has led teams to World Series rings, he’s managed for years, he has the confidence of the fans and the players. And the fact is, his team IS woefully underperforming, yet the pereception may very well be that the team can turn it around BECAUSE, or at least PARTIALLY BECAUSE, of Leyland at the helm. Can the same perception be said of Willie’s helming? If helming is even a word, lol? I don’t really think so.
And even if that weren’t the case, every situation is different, every team is composed differently, and in the Curious Case of Willie Randolph, where we have ample evidence of disconnects with the fans, the media, the players (especially Jose Reyes), the front office… I think Willie’s time has come and gone, quite frankly. He can’t and won’t be given the lattitude of a Leyland, for obvious reasons.
On my blog today, I kind of tongue-in-cheek (sound familiar? lol) talk about trading managers with the Yankees, Randolph for Girardi, straight up. You gotta laugh during these tough times, you know?
Very good points.
Deb, teams? teams?
Leyland led one singular team and the biggest set of hired guns ever to set foot on one field together at that to title.
He fell short three straight years with arguably the best team in the National League and survived that.
His Tiger team plummetted at the end of 2006 recall, lost their division title, fell back into the wild card, beat a crappy Yankee team that was not playoff ready and then got CREAMED by the team that knocked off Randolphs.
And where is the disconnect with Reyes? Are we now saying Reyes lack luster play since last August is because of Randolph?
The Red Sox once dismissed a sour apple of bigger magntitude, but I don’t think Reyes is as malignant as is being played.
Randolph very well may need to go, but lets not pretend that a guy like Leyland is from another stratosphere altogether.
Oh, but he is, Take a look at his managerial record. He’s managed 18 years, most of them in the NL. He’s been to two World Series, and has actually won one (yes, Willie, he has). He’s won three Manager of the Year Awards. Willie isn’t fit to spit in Leyland’s direction, not at this point, and probably never.
OH BUT HE IS NOT…his managerial record took a great deal of sculpting.
For his first 4 seasons he was under .500 by far with one positive step to a second place finish in 1988 followed by a big step back to 5th before he got to the top of anything.
You said he has lead TEAMS to world series RINGS, that implies multiple and that is far far far from true.
He has twice as many 5th place finishes as he does first place finishes and needed the good fortune of the Wild Card in both of his world series appearances.
Randolph is three years and two months into his managerial career and at the same point and time has achieved more head to head than Leyland.
Perhaps it will take Randolph 12 seasons as a manager to get to the World Series and win. Time will tell.
But one thing is certain whether you I or the wall likes Randolph or not, Leylands legend is more myth than fact.
But he HAS A TRACK RECORD, and a pretty good one, which is something Willie doesn’t have, and may not ever get. And why is that? Because of Willie himself. There’s a reason why he interviewed for like 20 managerial jobs and never got any of them, and don’t even try to tell me that it’s because he’s black.
And the fact is not every manager who is a good solid manager can win. That’s just the nature of the game. But managers get a rep for being good because they usually are (with the possible exception of Dusty Baker, who imo is the most overrated manager ever), not because the image is “sculpted.” And fcol, Leyland managed in Pittsburgh, Florida, Colorado and Detroit — hardly media meccas with people carefully sculpting images.
And here’s also what happens to some guys — they start to believe their rep (see: Dusty Baker). They become larger than the game (see: Bobby Valentine). But generally, this happens AFTER the manager wins a couple of titles or rings, NOT before, like in the Curious Case of Willie Randolph, who arrogantly seems to believe he’s entitled to something, having done little or nothing to earn it.
Call me crazy, but Willie isn’t even close to being in that stratosphere of managers.
Do you always ignore statistics? Three people have pointed out that Leyland is NOT the manager everyone thinks he is, that Randolp to date compared to Leylands first years is BETTER and he has more non first place finishes than 1st place finishes…
And the talent on the Tigers is heads above the mets and they are playing much worse. They would be tinkled pink to be playing 500 ball.
Your logic is faulty at best.
I wonder how many Tiger games any of us have watched, including you. Perhaps if I WAS a Tiger fan, I’d be clamoring for Leyland to be gone. I really don’t know, and I don’t care. The point is, Leyland has a good reputation, has had a good solid managerial career, has won A RING AS A MANAGER, has won some division titles, and has the respect of the players.
Like I said, sometimes even if you’re good, you’re not going to win all the time.
And Leyland, let us not forget, had the Tigers, a lowly last place team not a couple of years before, in the World Series.
I’m not saying Leyland’s God, but what I am saying is the man has paid his dues and Willie Randolph shouldn’t even be in the same sentence with Jim Leyland.
And Jim Leyland has not, to my knowledge, presided over a collapse of historic proportions, folllowed by a subpar performance of the same caliber the following year.
Joe Janish should be fired
lol, I agree.
Just admit that this team is not that good. It makes it much easier to watch the games.
it’s nice to see some optimism and perspective in the main posts.
That said, I’m sooooo sick of this topic (fire wille). I almost wish it’d happen just so we can move on to complaining about the new guy.
loll me too bro. We all want willies head at this point…lets talk about something different for a change
Exactly, just give me back my blog.
yes but leyland has rings and randolph has the biggest choke in baseball history
That is pointless, how many years has Leyland managed?
I love Willie and I hate Willie, and I am not sure what I want to see happen cause I am so frustrated with the rest of you.
But what I am tired of hearing each day is “Its 43 games into the season”.. Well three weeks ago, it was “its only one month into the season”… I am sure next week we will hear, “its only two months into the season”…. This has been going on for a full year now. Last year it was “Despite all of this, we are still in first”… How long will mgmt and the Wilpon’s accept this mediocre baseball???????????????????
So annoying.. I am not jumping on the Willie needs to go train, but some change is needed, and unfortunately, I dont know what that is..
Willie “I just want you to know, we’re all counting on you!”
And dont call me Shirley.
By this logic, no coach or manager in any sport would ever deserve to be fired, since none of them play. Sometimes firing that manager isn’t always fair, but it can work.
I haven’t seen someone make a case as to why willie SHOULDN’T be fired.
But you will…. oh, but you will. There are still some Willie supporters out there, but I can tell you this — there aren’t too many whose voices count, I don’t think. :)
Give me a reason why firing Randolph alone will change anything.
The possibility of a ‘03 Marlins turnaround.
How about a Houston 2004 style turnaround (featuring Carlos Beltran and Phil Garner)
My response to you would be that it may not, but it’s worth a try. Because we’re certainly not going anywhere if we do nothing.
This is what I am trying to wrap my head around. Everyone says the team takes the managers personality and were screaming for Acta. Now Church has come out and said Willie and Acta are the same. Everyone says the team plays with a lazy personality and the team needs a fiery manager yet it has come out that Willie is really a fiery guy in the clubhouse and has flipped tables.
Joe’s comparison to the Tigers is perfect and one I have been trying to make. Everyone thinks that a manager makes a difference. Why has Leyland’s teams been so bad?
Fact is firing Willie is not going to get this team to play any better. It is not going to get them to be anymore fundamental. At this point it is very much on the players. Firing Willie isn’t going to shake these guys up.
“Fact is firing Willie is not going to get this team to play any better. It is not going to get them to be anymore fundamental. ”
So why would any manager, at any level, ever deserve to get fired?
You know all I hear from Yankee fans is how Torre is the luckiest SOB coming in because “anybody” could have won with those Yankee teams.
Then I hear Met fans say Willie was lucky because “anybody” could have won with the 2006 team. To me this team is FAR more talented then the 2006 team and they aren’t doing anything so far. IT IS THE PLAYERS WHO HAVE TO PLAY.
Many times a manager getting fired has no point, its a PR or scapegoating move.
it will serve as a wake up call to players.
it can bring a different perspective to the game.
it can change the way the team prepares for each game.
it will bring with it a new strategy for in game play.
Or it could ruin the team permanently until its rebuilt again…who knows?
So you don’t think a .500 team with a 140 million dollar payroll that lets division leads slip away in historic fashion and with a slew of free agents leaving at years end is ruined already?
He is no good at using a bullpen, setting lineups, leading, motivating, communicating with his players, has no track record, his players don’t repect him anymore, he’s lost the NY media, he has the collapse on his record, he’s a Yankee, he’s full of himself, he “trusts his guys” no matter who they are or how they perform, he lets his bench coach fight the battles he’s supposed to fight, When things get really tough he pulls the race card, he throws his players under the bus while insisting he’s a winner, and he has a stupid looking mustache. Chances are that anyone else in the job would be better in AT LEAST a few of these areas and that is why firing Willie alone will make things better. The only way it could get worse is if you hired David Hasselhoff-otherwise, yea, I think we’ll improve
Yes, why shouldn’t he be fired? I know the players need to play blah, blah, blah, What would we lose if we traded David Wright? Now that your minds are planted firmly among the sane, answer the same question about Randolph(being fired), Please, answer the question, what does he bring to this team that would be so hard to replace? Will just one of the suppossed 60% of Mets fans who support Willie please give me a valid response as to why Willie is valuable to the team? Some of you want to blame Omar or the Players, thats fine, but if you can only shift blame, and you can’t actually point out anything that Willie does thats a positive for the team then stop defending the guy
I don’t know how important a manager really is but what I do know is that something HAS to change with this team. We have seen a big enough sample (roughly 150 games since last June) to see that this team constantly lacks focus, urgency, and fire. There really isn’t a player that can be released traded so Willie is expendable.
Based on what I’ve seen lately, I’d also say Willie is COMBUSTIBLE, as well as expendable. And maybe we ought to expend him before he combusts….lol :).
I agree. You can’t just blame Willie. Fire Omar too.
the biggest problem with willie’s style is that it never exudes a sense of urgency…..cliff floyd hated that…and its precisely why he has to go ….that its a long season thing just aint working….id love to hear his post firing speech…..can you imagine?
reporter asks how do you fell about the firing willie?
willie-well life is a long haul,,,marathon not a sprint….i just need to get into a little rythmn man ya know…ya know
I agree with you, remember Cliff Floyd said Randolph was like a ” deer in headlights” in the 9th inning in game 7 of 2006 NLCS, he has no urgency whats so ever, of course in the end its the players that win and lose games, but his comments about Met fans alone was disturbing
Willie look great at yankee stadium!! Hitters gotta hit and pitchers gotta get someone out. However, the manager generally pays the price.
Maybe Willie “looked good” over the weekend because the Yankees played like the last place team their record says they are.
Let’s face it people. This team has been playing .500 baseball since June 1, 2007. That’s almost a full season of games. Willie is a really nice, friendly, genuine man and is a hard worker he also has the utmost respect for the game. These are all great attributes for a human being. Not so much for an MLB Manager.
Since day 1, Willie has been in over his head. He has shown time and time again that he is not detail oriented enough for this job. His players are constantly making poor fundamental decisions on the field.
So many times players can not get a bunt down, move a runner over, steal at a time when a steal is the wrong play, etc. Willie just doesn’t want to be bothered with teaching the game. He feels that since these guys are pros, they don’t need constant reminders on what to do in a situation. That’s just not the case. A manager’s job is to make sure his players are equipped with the right information and instruction in ALL situations.
Everyone wants to blame Jose when he does something ill-advised on the bases. Jose is 24, has played organized ball for probably less than 10 years. He is very inexperienced. Loads and loads of talent, but not a lot of game situations under his belt. Willie and his staff need to constantly feed Jose with info to bring his mental game up to speed with his fantastic physical attributes.
Jose is just one example. I really feel Willie’s tiresome act “I know my guys” “we just need a nice little rhythm” is just not enough. Just because Willie had a high baseball IQ and knew what to do in every situation on the field doesn’t mean that every MLB player has that same high level of baseball smarts. Willie just doesn’t seem to have a handle on that fact. I feel that is his undoing. Well, that and the inabilty to make a double switch, his total disregard of the squeeze play, his decision to NEVER use a wheel play on defense, his desire to wait until his current pitcher allows the game to be so far out of reach before deciding it might be a good idea to remove him.
Again, nice guy, awful manager
hey jow u have to be kidding– pedro coming back?
I think you need to rethink that.
let’s face it the mets are stuck just like the yankee’s
with giambi, damon and pavano.
teams are going to have to realize when they sign these monster contracts they will have to live with situations like this.
we are stuck eith delgado, castillo beltran
now there is where I can’t people most people here.
beltran is nothing more than an average player with a
great potential.
I’m hoping they get worse. this way they might make some changes.
If they stay like this or maybe get a little better nothing will change.
ANYONE AGREE?????????????????????????
You are hoping that they get worse?? Why? If you are gonna hope for something, why not hope that they win 9 of the next 10, and put this all behind them? Your pesimism is gross.
beltran is nothing more than an average player with a
great potential.
ANYONE AGREE?????????????????????????
Uh … no.
I do think Beltran is overrated. You pay 119 million for a Pujols, not a Beltran. He’s a $5 million a year player, a .265 hitter to 25-35 homers, 90 rbi’s, who used to steal bases with a good glove. He’s not even Jim Edmonds in his prime.
I agree one hundred percent and I too hope they play worse to leave Omar and the Wilpons no choice. Any little winning streak would be a mirage right now. If this team somehow managed to get to the playoffs with Willie at the Helm and the current group of righties in the pen the results would be ugly, very ugly. And the comment in the original post about the mets being at rock bottom is way off. Atlanta and Philly have played below their capabililties as well and thats the only reason it’s still close. Just wait til one of those teams goes on a run and buries us in the division. We haven’t even sniffed rock bottom yet
“While the Mets are not playing consistently, it’s only 43 games into the season.”
I’m glad I read this opinion piece. I keep forgettting that there is a magic number when a team pulls its head out of its ass, and 43 games is WAY too early to be concerned. What is that number again? For Willie’s sake, he’d better hope it’s 44 or 45.
What was that magic number in 2007? I fear the Mets missed that memo as well
I don’t think we’re supposed to talk about 2007 anymore.
Flashforward to 2010. “While the Mets have been inconsistent for half a dozen years now, its still relatively early in Willie’s career, and there are still a couple of years of Johan left to get it done. There are many reasons to like the future of these Mets-for instance El Duque, who hasn’t been heard from since early 08, is attempting a comeback, though he still hasn’t had that nasty bunion removed, and Wiilie says he trusts his guys now more than ever, despite three straight losing seasons. The Wilpons still cling to the idea that Willie deserves the job based largely on the fact that he isn’t clearly the worst human being they possibly could have hired, and 60% of Mets fans still approve of the job Willie is doing despite not being able to name a single quality they admire in him. Willies Mantra has changed from “the season is a marathon” to “it takes decades to build a dynasty” , completely dismissing the last 3 losing seasons (and any future losing seasons as well) as a learning experience and talking of better days to come as soon as they find a way to get over “The Hump”
Did you guys catch the Ned Yost/blog situation? On mlb.com the story is called “Yost furious over false report — Blog entry alleges that skipper to be dismissed.”
Apparently it was posted on a Brewers blog that Yost was to be fired, and the next day it was all over the web and talk radio.
I found this quote insightful:
Catcher Jason Kendall, who has been through two managerial changes with the Pirates and another with Oakland, said that he knew nothing of Monday’s whirlwind. “I think it’s ridiculous, but what can you do?” Kendall said. “Something like that is ridiculous … but there is always going to be somebody [to blame], and the manager is usually the person. That’s the way baseball has been forever. Ned has this team doing the right thing, we’re just scuffling. We play the game right, and it’s not from a lack of effort, we’re just in one of those funks. We have to turn it around.”
Just an interesting comparison.
I still think that Willie has become too much of a distraction. And, there are enough issues tht (theoretically) are the managers responsibility to ignore.
So, it is possible that a new manager will improve play and wins. But I think it is very unlikely that a new guy would do any worse. So maybe a change would be to appease the fans, but frankly, at this point, what’s wrong with that?
I do agree that Willie can only work with the players he is given (although it is debatable if he always does that well). Man, why is Tatis here, if he can’t even get a start at 1B against a lefty?
I think that Omar needs to act boldly right now to right the ship. If he wants to keep Willie or not, make some player moves.
Upgrade the pen and bench is possible (even if some old favorites have to go). But mostly, get rid of Delgado (trade or cut) and be done with it. This is at least doable. Unloading Castillo on some patsy team is just my pipedream.
so maybe with a new 1B and a few different spare guys to mix in Willie can accomplish something?
IMO, the scariest thing right now is Moar just folding his hand and letting the season play out with the current bunch.
Stickguy,
You are so right about Willie and distractions. Now that he is trying to spar with the media (I think it’s just a ploy to take heat off of the team and focus it on him) he potentially adds to the distractions and the sideshows.
As far as improving the team, Delgado, sadly, is stuck here. I don’t see any viable replacement that would be an upgrade and that would be available for a reasonable exchange.
Castillo, people have to back off a little with him. The gimping around I think is just him playing possum for the most part. Remember, the guy has already swiped 7 bags this year. He has never had any power to speak of, and his avg is only down 30 points from his normal rate. At this point of the season we are talking about 3 or 4 less hits than he normally would have. Two 4 for 4 games in a row and his avg becomes higher than usual. I know the guy bunts too much, but that’s his game, it’s always been is game.
As far as the pen, trading Heilman for something decent (I think that can be done, I would bet most teams still view Heilman as a viable and inexpensive Starting option) is a start. Well, cutting Sosa and shipping Mota out was a great start. Now dealing Heilman and then cutting Wise is next. Then I would like to see Muniz get a shot at some semi-important innings. He’s been up twice, and each time he looked pretty good. Let’s see Muniz’ small measure of success is anything more than a mere lack of a “book” on him.
Sigh. You’d think the “still in first” crowd would have learned. But now we’re “still in fourth,” and lucky to be there! Look — there have been 150 games at .500 and an historic, unprecedented collapse under this man’s regime. And letting him go is “panic”???
I would love to see Wally Backman deal with this group
You know that will never happen. The Wilpons are not THAT dumb.
I think a big problem that is conveniently overlooked by pundits, fans and bloggers alike is that this team is filled with mini-Hojos. Poor decision making at the plate and little purpose other than to rip the cover off the ball (for the most part)
I love the guy and he’s one of my childhood heroes, but this lineup needs a gameplan! Oh, and how about batting practice?!?!
I think you make a great point about the Mets hitters rarely having a gameplan. The Braves hitters went up against John Maine and all went up with the approach that you lay off the high fastball and take him the other way while the Mets hitters looked lost against a 42 year old with an 83 MPH fastball.
It’s not just Hojo, though. Willie and all of the coaches have to be responsible for how the team approaches each series.
I think in respect to hitting, the HITTING COACH should be most responsible for lack of a game plan. That is a micro part of the game and why you have such coaches. Blame Willie for lack of motivation…for giving them this laizze-faire attitude, BUT when it comes to hitting, the hitting coach should have a bullseye on him as well….especially after how infuriatingly streaky they are….
Hate to be a hindsight commenter, but Rick Down never should have been fired…
Willie’s got until June 1st in my opinion.
I think you are close, if nothing good starts to happen before then 6/1 might be it……
You make a good case, Joe, but I’m not convinced that the key three will turn it on. And even if they do, will the rest of the team be doing what it should be?
It’s difficult to be overly optimistic right now.
Maybe we need to go get Victor Zambrano back?
But, is it fair
is honestly where i stopped paying attention. fairness is irrelevant.
i’m honestly not trying to be a jerk about this (it comes naturally). but life isn’t fair. lots of people would love to manage the new york mets. the vast majority don’t.
if i had a mid-level manager whose organization underperformed unacceptably last year, and after he promised to change his ways, this year, i would certainly consider firing that manager, regardless of the individual responsibility of his subordinates, i would consider lettiing him go. if the same manager then went and publicly blamed another department in my company as well as my paying customers for his failings, i would fire him immediately.
sometimes change for the sake of change just works.
2005 Astros immediately comes to mind. Or was it 2004 when they made it to the LCS?
Either way, its just not working with the current mix of players/manager.
Manager is the easiest to change, so fair or unfair, he goes first. After that, it’ll be players getting moved, and then the GM.
Let’s review some classic statements from our fearless leader Willie (aka Captain Collapse), and I’ll sit back and let the Willie apologists explain to us again why this guy is such a great choice to lead the NY Mets.
1. You’re taking food off my table
2. Mets fans were hiding before I came
3. We actually played great in 2007 up until September
4. It’s racist that fans don’t like me
5. The camera makes me looks dumb
6. The Champagne will taste even sweeter
7. Fans didn’t like Isiah and Herm just because they’re black
Am I forgetting any?
“I trust my guys.”
SNY doesn’t capture my good anglees
Yea, “I trust my guys” and “I liked ____ in that spot”
Please provide sources for some of these “quotes.”
Easily…Which one?
I know it’s hard to believe someone would be so dumb to say them, but I’m not making these up.
How about “Nice Little Rythym”
“Of course it’s toasted!”
and my personal favorite, though there isn’t a quote really, but the way he bashes young players that are performing over their heads! That’s a good ol’ CYA move by Willie. This way, he puts himself above any second guessing when he abruptly stops playing a hot hitting kid BEFORE that player’s hot streak runs it’s course. The Pagan situation comes to mind here.
YOU KNOW WHAT, JOE JANISH?
I loved the ‘Money Pit’. That is my answer to that statement.
Sorry, man. But an irrelevent question deserves an irrelevent answer.
Please send me your address, I would like to bill you for the fact that I just lost those last 2 minutes of my life.
Now give us 2 laps. Get going.
Sometimes I think these guys (Metsblog Writers) are just phuking with us.
Joe,
I have to respond to a few of your points:
“But, is it fair to blame Willie for being stuck with a team of immovable, underperforming players? ”
In a word, yes. It’s the manager’s job to make sure players are playing up to their potential to the greatest extent possible. Does anyone really think he has accomplished that over the past 150 games?
“While the Mets are not playing consistently, it’s only 43 games into the season. The Mets are 2.5 games out of first, and above .500 despite the struggles of “key three” — Beltran, Reyes, and Wright. ”
Sorry, after 2007 this argument doesn’t wash. If we learned anything from last year, it’s ignore the standings, ignore the win/loss records, and just look at how the team is playing. By my humble estimation, they’ve been playing like a bunch of chumps since LAST JUNE, and Radolph has done nothing about it. Time for a change.
To expand on Toasty Joe’s point, a manager’s (or any head coach’s) main responsibility is to put his players in a position where they will succeed. Randolph has been a miserable failure when it comes to putting players in position to succeed.
Not that it’s really comparable, but you know who was wonderful at this last year? Steve Spagnuolo. He schemed around his players’ strengths and weaknesses.
I agree with your points Janish. Take a look at the AP article today where Leyland is starting to rip into some of his players. Sure, it gives them the “fire” that so many posters here are complaining that the Mets lack but would it do any good if Willie started ranting about his players to the press? I believe them when they say he gets plenty mad behind closed doors. That’s where such outbursts belong. Ranting to the press does not a winner make.
Leyland is Leyland, I’m not criticizing his style of dealing with the pressure, and I hope it works for him. But it sure as heck wouldn’t work for Willie.
I see your point, but I don’t entirely agree. Yes, it is best if a manager keeps his criticisms of the players in-house, but at some point, players begin to tune that out. At some point, it may be necessary to go to the press to shake the team up.
Obviously you’re not a Mets fan. Mets fans are bred to see the glass as half empty (or even 3/4 empty) at all times. You must be banished!!!
Oh yeah — get rid of Delgado too.
I really am on the fence with this. For the record, I am a patient fan that has been an ardent supporter of Willie’s. However, I see a tight, lifeless ballclub and I’m not quite sure who to hold responsible. It’s tough to have an educated opinion on something like this when I’m only getting 20% of the information. I agree that there is ton of baseball to be played and I understand that much can change….or things can get worse.
I do believe this team should be better than 22-21. I believe the talent on this ballclub warrants expectations that are greater than the where we are at now. I guess, if I (me personally) believe the talent is better than the record, then I have to take a close look at the men leading the talent and a close look at the head guy – Willie Randolph.
Here’s my question to you all. What is the proper time to excuse a manager? Before June, All-star break, off-season, late season after a team is out of it, end of contract?
If the extent of lackluster play was limited to this April and May, I’d be the first to defend Willie, but that is most certainly not the case. This has been going on for a full year, where the Met record is the very definition of mediocrity. Add in the epic collapse of last year, and the Mets subpar September records under Willie’s tenure, I think there is more than ample evidence to make a decision.
The reality is that it could be the players. maybe this team is just not that good. If so, Omar’s next in line.
Why the blind faith and unwavering support to keep Willie? Everyone that posts on here- Matt, Jordan, etc- where does it come from? Why is it so hard to see him go? Has he done anything other than oversee heartbreak? NO HE HAS NOT. I DO NO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ALL CAN’T GET OVER IT AND SEE THAT IT IS BEST FOR THE ENTIRE METS UNIVERSE TO MOVE ON FROM THE WILLIE RANDOLPH ERA.
IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN WITH HIM MANAGING FELLAS, WAKE UP ALREADY
heart break? over baseball?
OK, Mr. Glavine…
Joe, while I always enjoy your writing, in my opinion some of the things you are saying holds true and others only half-true. It has been said a lot that the difference for most teams is about 10 or 20 games. Let’s forget about the games that we have lost by lack of offense for a moment and concentrate on the pitching. I say that because the offensive deficiencies of this club, especially the one where we can’t score a guy from 3rd with one out, have been around for probably 20 years, so to blame Rick Down, Ricky Henderson or Ho Jo wouldn’t be appropriate. Yes, they should have fixed the problem, but obviously, this has been around really long and certainly Ho Jo shouldn’t bear the brunt of the responsibility, although it’s noted that he hasn’t succeeded in this respect – though Church sings his praises for helping him.
So, let’s explore the alchemy that needs to and doesn’t properly exist between Omar, Rick Petersen and Willie. There has been a tendency since 05 to bring relievers to the club that can’t get it done and “test them” until they fail and we lose around 10 games a season because of it. Is it Omar bringing a guy that won’t work, because of lack of talent, age or injury? Is it HE that refuses to cut bait? Is he burdening Petersen and Willie with these guys – Mike De Jean, Heredia, Looper, Mota, Sosa and Heilman and Schoenweis? There are different circumstances undoubtedly in each person listed, but at the same time, they have been put into games where in tight situations they didn’t belong with catostrophic results. All we needed is one game or two to be in the postseason last year. Looper and Show being allowed to play hurt, especially Show last year cost us dearly. As someone else pointed out, WE could have been the team to get JC Romero and won the NL East. There’s a lot of blame to go around. Omar should have sent Heilman down for seasoning and to see a sports shrink in Louisiana. I can’t go into all the micro-issues here, but this is just relief pitching and Willie wanted to leave Heilman in for 2 innings last week when he was never gonna have it. I think that was the Pelfrey game where he pitched no hit ball for the first part and Willie’s statement showed a mindset which was nothing short of buffoonery. He’s a nice guy granted. I wish I knew whether it is Omar, Petersen or Willie that keeps Heilman up, for example. This talk of trading him at his lowest value, if true, is blasphemy..
And no, Willie can’t swing the bat or steal the bases, but he’s got to get his team in the proper mindset and he and his coaches have to constantly remind the batters to adjust their mechanics before and after each AB, if necessary. Too many mistakes to get into in too many facets of the game, but I do hope we can have some accountability and a good replacement for whoever needs to go.
Hey cver,
You realize Looper hasn’t been around here since 2005, right?
Do you also realize that Shoe has been the best reliever not named Wagner on the Mets this year?
I understand you are speaking to the idea of the Mets running injured pitchers out there in key spots, but simply cutting guys is not always the answer .
I’m talking about what’s been going on over Omar, Willie and The Jacket’s tenures, of course – it’s a pattern. This year, they have been running Heilman out there when he doesn’t have it over and over. Last year, Show was injured and yes, in 05, it was Looper. In 05, the Mets were 6 games back in the Wild Card, so maybe it wouldn’t have made a difference and it was Willie and Omar’s first year. I’m just saying that there has been some costly mistakes.
well, why CAN’T HE BENCH DELGADO? joe.
because you say so?
it it a physical impossibility to put marlon at first?
down 8-2 and he’s just chillin’, joking around-
i’m sick of it.
i make 50,000 a year and believe me, I’M HELD ACCOUNTABLE.
who does this site REALLY represent? i’m starting to wonder
Come on, man – I know you’re frustrated, but this site offers varied opinions from some very talented writers. Matthew tries to stay even keeled when he can, but he hardly has been able to contain himself lately – like us. He even mocked Omar a bit tongue-in-cheek (well, that’s my interpretation) when he threw in a “You know what I’m saying” in disgust the other day. This is Joe’s opinion and he’s a writer on here and that’s what his words represent, as Mike’s, Matthew’s or any of the others’ words do. I suppose that barring something totally over-the-line, they have a free hand. OK, saying that Willie couldn’t do anything to reverse the Mets’ problems was over your line and it’s good that you criticize that opinion – and I agree with your criticism. But this site is mostly a piece of us, as evidenced by your words and mine appearing on here right now. The writers get the podium and give us news, rumors and their opinions, which gets the ball rolling for us – the peanut gallery.