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In the last 36 innings of baseball, spanning four days, I have seen the Mets look like a well-oiled machine, clicking on all cylinders, yet also look completely overmatched, dejected and lost at the plate – and therein lies the problem.
Somehow, I led myself to believe that the Mets were a far superior team to any one else in the National League – and that winning would come rather easily.
However, like most of Major League Baseball, they’re not. Instead, they’re a good team, comprised of quality, but inconsistent talent.
“It’s unacceptable to want to win a division and not be able to ride the momentum we had,” David Wright said after losing two games to the Braves yesterday.
“We’ve got too much talent to just keep being mediocre all the way through the season. I’m as guilty as the next guy. Just too many hot streaks and too many cold streaks.
The locker room has basically been making that exact same statement every other day since last June.
The team’s spark plug, Jose Reyes, has been lost at the plate for nearly a year. He gets hot, smiles, cools off and the sulks. His counter-part, Wright, will hit .600 in any 10-game span, then go hitless the following week. The middle of the batting order, Carlos Delgado and Carlos Beltran, still have power, but when they do, it’s fleeting, assuming they’re healthy. The same can be said for Luis Castillo, but minus the power. Moises Alou is here, then he’s not, he’s here, then he’s not – same with their emotional leader, Pedro Martinez. What’s worse, the team’s best and most consistent hitter this season, Ryan Church, suffered a concussion last night and will likely be sidelined for the next 10 days. The starting pitching has been more or less strong, but the bullpen has been just as shaky and inconsistent as the offense has – again, much like most other teams around the league.
And so, again, like much of their competition, while the Mets can have very good talent on any given day, and make you and I temporarily regain confidence, in the end, we’re all just sitting still, looking on, players and fans together, hoping they stumble on the elusive hot streak that has been talked about over and over again since last summer.
This is not to say it will never come. In fact, I believe it will and I look forward to it. It’s just, until it does, I have accepted that the Mets will continue to feel like an old car with a shoddy clutch.
“I keep thinking we’re going to turn the corner,” Willie Randolph said last night, “but we definitely took a step back in Atlanta.”
I suppose Randolph could flip over his script. However, I think he truly believes in his players. Most people see this as a negative at this point. Frankly, I don’t think it matters either way – since the players know what’s up, as evident by Wright’s quote.
I believe Randolph may be a problem to some extent, but I do not understand how he or any other manager is going to make Delgado turn quicker on an inside fastball, or make Reyes keep his elbow in, or make Alou younger and healthier, or make Wright stop swinging at pitches out of the strike zone, or give Castillo new knees.
The main problem on this team, i.e., its inconsistency, is not Randolph’s fault. I will listen to the argument suggesting that a new manager will bring in a new mantra, or a breath of fresh air, or a new vibe, all of which could help to invigorate the team and help shift its mindset and attitude. I’ll buy that. I’m not sure such an impact is guarenteed to occur, but it could – and so I understand the debate.
However, as far as I am concerned, as long as this group of talent continues to take the field, regardless of who they call ‘Manager,’ this season will always hinge on a hot streak, which I will keep hoping for while doing my best to believe in, like the true, painfully addicted Mets fan that I am.
The Mets have Bi-Polar disorder.
May be they need a manager that will spend countless hours working with the players, calling for extra practice, teaching and leading his team instead of crying about the fans and the media and closing the book and turning the corner…
One who doesn’t cancel BP after an off-day!
They need a new manager … they need a new coaching staff … and they need to get rid of some of the stiffs on this team. They should have blown this up last winter …
Denial never fixes the problem.
Oh and…
“SNY is framing me.
Mets fans don’t like me because I’m black.
Mets fans were hiding before I came here … there are Mets fans now because I came here.
This is not something to panic over … a day here, a day there. We’ll get em tomorrow.
The champagne will be that much sweeter.”
….the man is delusional and paranoid.
The only delusion is that Willie is the reason why the Mets are inconsistent.
Like I said Anthony…
”
They need a new manager … they need a new coaching staff … and they need to get rid of some of the stiffs on this team. They should have blown this up last winter …
Denial never fixes the problem.”
I hope no one is saying that he is “the” reason. But he certainly is “a” reason. Was the Collapse a statistical anomaly? Players all of a sudden performing to their “true” levels? No — it was a bullpen cr*pping out and a team that lost faith in itself. If a manager is expected to do nothing else, it’s keeping the team from a psychological meltdown like that.
the mets had a good hot streak. but mr. almighty willie changed that lineup when the time had a 5 game winning streak.. c’mon now! who does that!!
Yes…that move miffed me. At least try and sweep the Phils at CBP before you do that.
I agree Matt, a new manager may improve things somewhat, or it could get worse.
The problem, in my opinion, was never Randolph. However, he has made himself the problem now and I think he has to go sooner rather than later at this point.
This coming from an ardent Willie supporter. I just don’t see how things improve with him there, he has become a cloud over the organization now.
I’ve said it before, I think the Wilpons underestimated the fan’s acrimony towards him when the gave him another chance last October. I respect them for not pinning it all on him, but in hindsight letting him go would have been the best thing.
Its not fair, but these things seldom are. And I would like to see a young player come up for a stint for Church, who should be DL’d.
regarding hot streaks and perspective, I’m re-posting a para from an earlier thread:
big picture, it essentially takes 6 months of 15-12 to reach 90 wins, which should easily be competitive for the division. 15-12, looked at game by game, seems like underacheivement, when it’s not necessarily so.
I don’t understand how so many are ready to cede the season unless willie is fired.
I’m definitely not ready to concede, especially with the marlins in 1st and with the mets starting rotation.
However, Randolph has now made himself part of the problem and I can’t see the team turning it around for him even if they want to. The pressure to win is tremendous, and he is just adding to it.
so firing willie removes that pressure to win?…actually, I might buy that.
I agree that he’s digging his own grave, but I don’t agree at all witht the idea that the season is lost if he stays (which is a general sentiment expressed around here, not specifically by you). I say give him the season, and fire him afterwards, if warranted.
15-12 is also 30-24. Think the Mets will be 30-24? 45-36? 60-48? Not the way they’re going.
sure, I can see them hitting those marks. there’s no skill area that we’re drastically deficient in, and I believe that skill will assert itself more often than not. we shall see.
We’re watching different teams, I guess.
nope, same team. This is DbacksBlog, right?
This is a second concussion for Church in 2 months. Head trauma like this is a grave health concern. Don’t be surprised if he is lost for the season.
get lost fregosi
someone is a bit sensitive this morning
That is not a ridiculous statement. I’m sure Church will be back sooner rather than later, but this is a little bit scary.
That would be devastating. He’s easily our MVP. Actually, that may be the only thing everyone on here can agree on.
I think you’re right!
Right On. As a huge Willie Supporter I agree with everything you’ve just written and Don’t believe a manager can change the way the mets play on the field. Willie is simply taking the heat not from the racist SNY Media because they aren’t but the racist NY newspapers who are Famous for their acts of running minority managers out of town and driving Mets Fans*(especially) nuts just because they’re on that yankee Bandwagon. How Come the Yankees are in last place and the only thing that really sticks out in the newspaper are the mets and Willie losing his job when really the mets are playing just as well as their counterparts in the same division being just 2 games out of first???????????
Don’t use other teams’ mediocrity as an excuse for the Mets. Theyre playing like crap. We see them play like crap. There was a poll up last night asking whether or not the Mets would come back after being down in the 3rd inning. 92% said no. Does that inspire confidence that this team is just as good as everyone else?
All that poll means is that Mets fans have no faith in their team, in 2006 the FANS believed and would cheer into the 8th and 9th inning standing behind their team which may have rubbed off on the players giving them life, now if the Mets are behind after the 3rd inning the FANS just boo everyone and it takes the fight out of the players!! Maybe its not Willie’s fault, maybe its the FANS that stopped cheering and having faith in their players!!!
How is it the fans fault when they never come back on the road?
That starts with the players. We expected comebacks in ‘06 because the team mounted comebacks. They didn’t comeback because we expected them to.
Don’t forget that the Yankees came into the season with two rokkie pitchers and a much lower expectation level. The Mets on the other hand are not training rookies, they are built for today and basically today. Also the expectation level for the Mets are so high especially with last still fresh in the media mind. And to boot last year the Yanks made to the playoffs and after losing the Yankee fans were (have been) calling for Torre’s head as if it was his total fault.
The Mets came into the season expecting Pedro and El Duque to be in the rotation which required them to use Figgy and Pelfrey when those two couldn’t play. So thats a wash, when you have Pedro scheduled in as your #2 pitcher and he goes down everyone slides up. The Yanks had Hughes scheduled as their #4 at best #3 so its not as bad of a hit.
true and good points. but everyone expected pedro to go down at one point or another. and as for el duque he was never really in the rotation because he was never healthy in SP, and the winter and the fall, etc.
You are so on to this DannyGuira. The NY Media is a HUGE culprit in this whole pseudo-crisis that we believe that we’re in. I mean let’s look at something here. This is what I’ve seen in the NY Papers on a daily basis. Please note this is not a scientific poll but an average of what I think seems to be going on in the New York media. Though the tendencies may have changed this week a bit due to the “reality” of Yankees losing lately.
Average # of Stories in NY Papers- per paper
Yankees Win: 5+
Yankees Lose: 2-3
Mets Win: 2-3
Met Lose: 5+
So what you can basically take from that is when we win, the writers collectively try to refrain as much as they can from giving us credit. But when we lose, these writers seem to get what they think is a “jolt of creativity” and produce article after article, piling on the Mets, pointing out their shortcomings, making up “new” shortcomings, writing what they “think” the player is thinking(how is that possible?) and printing it like its facts. Since we have a Latino GM, the angle they’ve been taking since then, is attributing any clubhouse friction, troubles on the field etc. to something to do with being Latino. I mean Billy Wagner pointing to Carlos Delgado’s locker the other night has NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING LATINO. But the press of course had a field day and even Billy Wagner was appalled that he was being portrayed as a racist. Now the Yankees – I guess they DO have history on their side – is totally a different story. Derek Jeter can’t do no wrong. It doesn’t matter that there are FAR better defensive and offensive shortstops in the Major Leagues. They just will never fill up on that Derek Jeter Kool-Aid. They are currently in last place, their hitting has been non-Yankee like, there little prodigious young pitching duo are pretty much a bust this year, the rest of the rotation is old or not set up yet, their outfield defense is almost horrid, (Johnny Damon, need I say more), they have NO BENCH, there bullpen is really comprised of two guys and no leftys, nobody says anything about the acquisitions of Igawa/Pavana and how that turned out. Yet we STILL get killed over the Kazmir trade. So obviously there is something wrong here. Sure it’s not fair, but life’s not fair either. What I’m trying to say here is that the media LOVES to do this to the Mets and Mets’ fans because they know it works. It irks us. It makes us call up the Fan and b*tch about it, we b*tch about it on our blogs and in our posts. The Media is winning the battle here. They ignite this wide ranging negative feeling about our team. We need to know that in this battle, it isn’t us against the Yankees or Phillies or Braves. It’s US vs. The Media. We need to win. We need to stop feeding into this negativity. Positive thinking goes a lot farther than it gets credit for. We have all seen it, though a lot of us choose not to believe in its powers. Go ask a Professional Poker Player about it. They have seen it’s magic and it’s been very profitable for them. I believe this is what Willie was trying to do the past few seasons before this one. It’s to keep a positive mindset for him and for the team and not give the media the spark that it wants so they can light the fire that will burn shea down.
Seriously, it might be time to call up one of the Big Three in the B-Mets. Wasn’t Murphy the one that also played outfield? If he comes up here and makes in impact, slot him into the infield when Churchy gets back.
As for Willie, he’s worn out his welcome. Those comments were terrible and I would be making a bigger deal about them if I didn’t already feel he was going to get fired. Someone has got to bring a new attitude to this ballclub. And a new hitting coach too.
none of those guys are ready to make an impact at the major league level, that is not the answer
I don’t think so either. As soon as we see those guys up we have either conceded the division or there has been disastrous injuries to our club.
Now we are calling our collection of AA scrubs “the big 3″? come on i’d be surprised if one of those guys lasts consistently in the majors for more than 3 years.
Cerrone you, inadvertantly, hit the nail on the head with your quote: “this season will always hinge on a hot streak”
That’s precisely the problem. Met fans, and possibly players, are waiting for this team to get “hot” and go on some sort of streak when, in reality, they should be more concerned about playing consistent baseball.
They don’t have to be on fire and blow teams away with a streak of wins. I (and most fans, I believe) would just like to see some consistency. I believe that, if we show consistency the wins will come….with ease.
We (Mets) should have to be “hot” in order to win a series against Washington or Cincinatti for that matter.
This team doesn’t lack the “desire to win” – it’s there. They lack the ability to bring a consistant brand of baseball to the park each and every day. And, with the talent we have (or so I think/thought) that’s unacceptable.
Cincinnati went on a 7 or 8 game streak. CINCINNATI!!! When was the last time the Mets did that?
That IS unacceptable! I agree 100%, Nick.
The contrast between the two N.Y.C. managers could not be any starker. While both teams have performed well below expectations, Girardi has assumed full responsibility for the Yankees’ failure. His quotes are clear and simple – “I have ultimate responsibility for the team’s performance.” Willie has not and does not directly accept responsibility for the team’s mediocre play extending back for a year. How can a manager exercise leadership or be considered a leader if he is not willing to take responsibility when times are tough?
Randolph has not skirted responsibility but that does not make a difference either way.
Go ahead and fire him, but the lot goes with him, the “CEO of pitching”, Howard Johnson, Alomar and Manuel they have done nothing to help the situation whatsoever.
re hojo: kept thinking yesterday how many outs the mets helped give to the braves by their plate approach. the braves were taking pitches and fouling them off, and the mets would retire themselves for the inning on 6 pitches. I don’t know how consistent that’s been, but I’d like to see team pitches per plate appearance and compare.
Which is odd considering how patient they were against the Yankees.
yeah…I mean, I know hitters have game plans for different teams in general, and maybe this one was “they throw strikes, so be aggressive”, and they just couldn’t get him. Though that certainly couldn’t be true for glavine…I dunno.
jamie, using your logic, at 22-21 (.512 pct), the Mets are on a pace to win 83 of 162 games. That won’t win the division or wild card.
no, using my logic the season is long and the difference in winning a division comes down to a relative handful of games, not necessarily predicated on winning 10 in a row.
I really hate to say this at this time of the season, but as it stands right now the Mets are at best a third place team. I’m not withdrawning my support or being a doomsayer. Its just that they’re not a championship quality team right now. In my humble opinion I truely believe the following needs to be done now to avoid a hole that’s too deep to come out of.
1) Fire Willie. Not because he’s a bad manager which I think he is fair to slightly above average. Not because he is black. Only reason is would be to wake the team up and send the message that no one is safe. Slide Charlie Manuel into the manager job especially since he has had the experience.
2) Following the no one is safe logic shake up the roster. Easier said than done granted but something needs to be done on the player level to wake them up. If possible ship off a veteran player. None of the vets on field have any value (contracts and performacne, etc) but maybe Easley or Anderson or Chavez could be the message. Maybe a package of Heilmann and Chavez could return something that could boost this team. I don’t have an exact proposal but I hope you could see where I’m going with this.
3) Put Omar on alert. Let him know (if it hasnt happened already) that he put this team togeather with a lot of money and anything less than first is unacceptable and results in his dismissal.
Finally, I am a Willie and Omar supporter. I think they have done the best they could and the blame should fall on the players more than the administration. But on the same token as many good things the two of them have done they have done some bad moves and calls.
The Phillies might object if we slide their manager into Willie’s vacated spot. Maybe Jerry Manuel would be a better choice since he’s a Met already.
Jerry, Charlie whats the diff?? LOL thanks for the correction!!!!! I knew something didnt look right. Boy do I feel foolish.
I agree that while changing the manager may not fix things, at this point, Willie’s paved his own way to being gone; he’s made it easy for him to be the change that’s made, and change is absolultely necessary at this point.
To what end? Just to feel good about change?
I am down with it, but they all go, every one of them, Peterson, Johnson, Alomar and Manuel, none of them has provided any help to the situation at all.
Something needs to change, and the fact of the matter is, it’s evident that there is a disconnect between Willie and the fans, and even between Willie and the team, and that certainly isn’t helping.
I do agree that probably the whole lot of ‘em needs to go, which is why I think if the Mets bring in a new manager, they must give him the option of replacing every coach with a person of his choosing.
The main problem on this team, i.e., its inconsistency, is not Randolph’s fault.
That’s right, Matt.
Though I think Willie hurt his case with the O’Connor interview. Not that all of what he said was wrong. But some of it clearly was and reeked of paranoia. And the timing and the way he said other things showed a lack of tact and judgment.
But, Omar is more responsible for the fortunes of this team. He put together the current cast of characters. Either he needs to start exercising better judgment, or he should be gone soon.
Omar deserves a lot of blame … i agree with you. I don’t think anyone can honestly say that it’s not Willie’s fault though. He’s part of the problem … he deserves blame … plenty of it.
They both deserve blame. Omar also deserves blame for hiring Willie in the first place … with no track record.
Honestly, mikey, I believe Willie’s impact on the way the club plays this year is so negligible. And I don’t believe there’s anything a new manager can do.
But as I said, he pretty much stabbed himself in the heart with his Ian O’Connor interview. That’s his fault. Even though I believe some of what he said about race rings true.
And I agree with you and have said the same thing before – Omar deserves blame for hiring Willie in the first place because:
1) He’s an ex-Yankee and everyone knows fans will be more critical of them
2) He had zero managerial experience at any level … this is a no-no for a NY team
3) He had a pre-existing rep for being thin-skinned and defensive … so how do you even consider someone like that who will have to deal with the NY media?
4) Almost all his coaching and playing experience had been in the AL.
I’m sure there are more reasons, but Omar gets a “D” for hiring Willie in the first place. And that should be part of the equation when the Wilpons decide whether or not to fire Omar
Well said.
that’s an interesting point.
I honestly don’t understand how people can feel like Omar is part of the problem. Obviously, the GM is the one that brings in the players. Can you honestly say that the majority of the players, that Omar has brought in are lousy? Every GM makes a bad deal hear and there. But the majority of Omar’s deals have been good for the team or aleast a wait and see. The majority of the players he has brought in are good-great players. Some were no names that have emerged as good players. None of the players are head cases that destroy the team.
When you are trying to fill a roster with the intent of building a win now team, you will usually bring in veteran players that are on the decline. With the hope that they give you a couple good years before they aren’t viable anymore. That is why we are dealing with the Delgados, Pedro, Alou, etc.
For the the Willie supporters, how do explain the regression in level of play with the team since the end of 2006. How is that Omar’s fault?
Also, before the season started all of the so called experts picked the Mets to win the NL. They realized that the Mets had the talent to win a championship. So obviously Omar brought in the right players. Willie hasn’t gotten them to play to there potential.
With regards to Randolph, the first thing he needs to admit is that there is a problem. The past few posts that have been devoted to Willie’s bizarre comments the past few days underscore his stubborness. At least when the Yankees were embarassed over the weekend Girardi owned up to the fact that his team wasn’t playing well. I hate defending that club in any way, but Girardi is under immensely more pressure than Willie on a day to day basis. Yes, we have the collapse to absolve ourselves of, but he’s got the weight of the most recognizable American sports franchise, the legacy of one of the most successful managers in baseball history lingering around and that doesn’t even include the psychosis that exists in their front office. As much as we’d like to believe or would want it to be the case, whether Willie goes or not, is not our decision.
Yesterday we saw the worst of both worlds. Not only a lack of execution but a lack of focus. Especially in the day game where the Mets pitchers threw as many pitches in 6 innings as the Braves did the entire game.
I don’t know what type of carrot and stick measures can be used to keep this team motivated on a game to game basis. Is it true that the team didn’t take BP yesterday? I seriously hope that was not a reward for spanking the Yankees over the weekend.
The Braves took BP and prepared themselves for us because honestly, they love to beat our brains out. You can see it when they score runs, you can see it when they strike out our hitters, when they turn DP’s, etc. At no point during those games yesterday do you think the Braves lost focus of the fact that their mission for that day was to beat us.
I’m not saying that the Mets don’t want to win games. But it’s days like yesterday where I start to wonder whether they have what it takes to win these games.
I was at Game 2 of the DH yesterday and I know that they did not take BP prior to the second game. Normally, I wouldn’t care so much but, considering how they played in Game 1, I was a bit surprised and concerned that they weren’t out there.
I should also note that Turner Field has batting cages under the stadium for players to use, so they may have been taking BP indoors.
I can say, with full confidence, that the Mets looked like a AAA team last night. It was embarassing to watch, it truely was. They looked completely lost at the plate.
I don’t think they ever take bp before the second game of a dh. I don’t think anyone does, but I could certainly be wrong.
They didn’t take batting practice prior to game 1. I dont’ know about game 2 though.
So Willie and Omar should both go then.
Because someone is responsible for putting this old, injury-prone overpaid roster together.
Unforuntately Willie does have to go… But I disagree on Omar…While it is Omar’s responsibility to put together this roster, guys like Delgado, Pedro and El Duque would not have come here in 2005 or 2006 without long term committments, this was bound to happen, and to get within one game of the WS in ‘06 this type of sacrifice had to be made.
Great young players don’t grow on trees.
I never like the excessive use of the word “consistency” in sports. It always seems like just a cover up for poor performance. There has been variance in the number of runs scored, and I definitely remember a few very high scoring games and few very low ones, but I’d be curious to know if it’s really been markedly unusual (but of course to lazy to do the math).
The bottom line is that the Mets have significantly underperformed. They had a .775 OPS last year, and have a measly .729 OPS this year. With the exception of Chuch, I believe that every single player is under his career OPS (some significantly so). Only Delgado and Alou can this be expected (because of age or injury).
In other words, they haven’t played consistantly :)
I’ll take consistency one step further, how do you define it?
If you consisently have 1, 2 & 3 game winning & losing streaks, a team is considered inconsisent. Yet if a team wins 8 in row and then loses 6 in a row they are considered
inconsisent?
What gives?
What about Reyes and Beltran. They are certainly not old but they stink right now.
This may sound crazy, but does anyone thing exploring a trade for Beltran would be a good idea? He is as streaky as they get, and his inconsistency has been plaguing this team since he got here. Sure, he was great in 2006, but last year he was very inconsistent, and this year even more so (mostly bad). And we all know about his 2005. I know he plays great defense, but from an offensive standpoint, he simply cannot be counted on on an every day basis.
I would keep Beltran.
Depending on where they are in July, I would consider trading Perez, Schoenweiss, Heilman, Sanchez, Wise – even Wagner if he is serious about retiring after this year to a contender who might overpay. Lots of holes to fill in 09, and a depleted farm.
Of course, we are a long way from there, I would not be surprised at all if they were leading the division at the end of July.
I would keep beltran also, at least can play gold glove defense and has some speed, at 31 he will be one of the oldest players on the team next year.
the average age of the team will take a free-fall next year:
duque($6million)
alou($7million)
pedro($15million)
delgado(no way mets pick up a $16 million option)
Yea he is and it kills me. His offensive flaws would be less magnified if we would take him out of the clean up hole. We dont have anybody to replace him though. It should be Delgado but he;s clearly not that guy anymore. The one thing I can say about Beltran is I can live with his offense because his D is so outstanding. So even when he’s not hitting he’s contributing in other ways.
I wouldn’t mind seeing him in th 2 or 3 spot for just a little while, maybe mix things up and get him going.
Maybe Delgado can step it up now that Church is sitting for a few games. Would be nice.
I think that if the Mets are flailing and in last place around the deadline, with a complete meltdown, you explore it. He’s a solid bargaining chip and not necessarily essential to the team’s future, with a proven track record of helping teams down the stretch.
That said, it would have to be the right deal, and it’s a very bold move, of the sort I doubt Omar and Co. have the courage or savvy to be able to engineer. The guy gives a team a lot, and so you’d have to be very certain that you’re getting something of value in return.
NONONONONO. He’s one of the best cf’s in the game, streaky or not.
You have to give to get. He’s what we have to give, I think. That said, the more I think about it, the less I trust Omar & Tony Bernazard to not get fleeced.
but to get what? what need would we fill so signifcantly that it would also fill the void created?
Depth. Three prospects — say, a pitcher, a 1B and a young CF.
that’s pretty drastic renovation, man. didn’t we just do that to the twins?
Yes. Not saying we should do it. See above — it’s a last resort if the team completely nosedives, a la 1993.
gotcha.
The fallacy here is, again, that the Mets’ performance is limited to something ineffable called “talent,” and that simple things like clubhouse camaraderie and coaching have nothing to do with how that “talent” manifests itself in actual outcomes on the field. OF COURSE there are physical limits on a player’s performance, and no one can turn Luis Castillo into Chase Utley. They’re overstated, however. While retreads like Delgado may actually be physically limited, Reyes isn’t. If you can’t see how coaching could get Reyes to keep his elbow in, you have essentially no faith in the coachability of Jose Reyes.
Read Tom Verducci’s piece on SI dot com on the resurgent Rays (or “surgent”? “Resurgent” implies they’ve been good in the past), who have — at least for the time being — found a winning formula in playing crisp baseball with speed and defense and with the right mix of vets to shepherd along the young talent in the right way. I’m not saying the Rays should be a model organization for the Mets, but the story provides a plausible narrative on how these supposedly unimportant factors can actually translate to performance on the field. The mind swings the bat. It works through the body. That’s not supposed to sound like a bad yoga instructor. It’s supposed to sound ridiculously obvious, which it is.
lol-”surgent”
and good post
Good post.
You truly have been one of the more consistent rational voices the past few weeks.
Thanks . . . but there’s a thought. . . .
Anyway, I don’t like calling for anyone’s job, but it’s not like Willie is going to have trouble finding a new one. I’m sure he’ll have fun bashing the Mets in the media for several months, anyway, and there’s no telling whether a new manager will have had enough time to turn things around.
I have said this before and I think it is a definite now, I am afraid HoJo is gone. He will be the sacrificial lamb for the offense being stalled.
and the warning shot for Randolph.
Rick Down was already the warning shot for Randolph.
Consider what happened AFTER they fired Down and Randolph still survived, I’m not so sure. If they fire HoJo and nothing changes, can Randolph be far behind?
Again, I have supported Randolph. I just think the baggage is too heavy for this group to carry at this point.
Rick Down was his boy though. HoJo isn’t. When HoJo goes it will be at the same time Willie does … along with the rest of the coaching staff all at once.
I really think the only reason Hojo hasn’t gone yet is because the face of your franchise Mr. Wright thinks the world of him. I hope I am wrong because I really like HoJo but…………….
I think so too. Did Reyes’ decline coincide with Rick Down’s firing and HoJo’s hiring?
Offense is doing too many quick innings! We need more players like Church. Even though his AVG is not high, he has a high OBP. 70-80 points about your AVG is awesome! When he was a National, I would always worry about him. He gets on base and makes the pitchers work.
The whole team doesn’t need to have a high batting AVG. You need to get on base and make pitchers work! Even if you don’t have a high AVG, timely hitting will score tons of runs. Everyone underestimates the power of getting on base. It affects the opposing pitcher mentally. It’s another thing they have to worry about. It also gets the starting pitcher out earlier in the game and gets to the bullpeen which is usually the weakest part of many teams.
I think this is the batting instructers job. Sad to say it might cost HoJo his job.
I do not understand why people got so excited after the Mets “sweep” in the Bronx. Did everyone forget they “swept” a last place team?? Beating the Yankees did not show the Mets is a good team. Sadly, the mets are not good. Proof of this was yesterday’s games.
Yeah, but they lost 3 of 4 to the last place team in our division, so beating the Yanks is SOMETHING to get excited about.
Oh, and the Big Sweep came while the Yankees were missing their two best players. I’m sure the Mets would fare just as well if in June we had to face them without Reyes and Wright.
You mean wright and church
But they faced Pettite and Wang. Not exactly easy pitchers to beat, especially Wang, who is touted as one of the best in the league.
Jeter was there.
I was against hiring Willie from day one because of one — and only one — reason: He had NO managerial experience.
Now, after seeing him for several years, I don’t like his managerial style and I don’t care for how he utilizes his players.
That being said, no manager would be able to turn around 4 guys that are KILLING this team:
Reyes
Beltran
Delgado
Castillo
Could Larry Bowa or even Bobby V. get those guys out of their collective funk? No. The problem IS with the players, and Omar has to take the heat for most of it.
Reyes isn’t regressing because of Willie. He’s regressing because he is not a very intelligent person and he is stubborn. He has NO feel for the art of hitting whatsoever. What you see with him is based on natural talent and guesswork. That’s all.
Beltran isn’t much better. Delgado and Castillo are washed up.
The Mets can stick with them and hope for the best, but it isn’t going to happen. There needs to be a MAJOR shakeup in this team. Omara needs to go and that will eventually mean that Willie will go before next season when the new GM brings in his own guy.
Here’s the thing. A Bowa or Bobby V wouldnt have let it get this far into the funk. They would have done something to shake it up, or get the message across. Thats where Randolph is failing.
Oh, you mean like how BV shook up the Mets in 2002 from their malaise :?:
Yeah, right.
The difference is, that team was nowhere near as talented as this one.
True, but they still underperformed in many people’s eyes. They had one of the worst losing streaks in the team’s history too. So how did BV let the losing streak go on?
If BV ran the current Mets, I truly believe the results would be no different.
nothing like the unproveable to substantiate a point, sometimes it comes down to the players, Torre was considered the reason the Yankees could not win and the reason the Dodgers would rise to the occassion, how has that worked thus far on both ends?
here’s the answer to everything
reyes is just an average player
beltran had 1 great post season
delgado is embarrassing- when is randolph going to bench him
wright is worth it.
perez is too iffy
alou is too old
after last nights doulbheader they would make a junior league
pitcher look great.
look at other teams-chipper jones, rollins, utley, pujols- no one on the mets except wright is even close.
MET FANS GET OVER IT- WE’RE NOT THAT GOOD
Reyes should not be an “average” player. He has all the tools to be well above average. If you think what we’re seeing this year is all he’s capable of, you’re nuts.
Beltran has done a heck of a lot more than have one good postseason (a la Mickey Hatcher.)
Alou is still hitting.
You’re right about Delgado.
Delgado and Castillo are the ones hurting the team the most….. Beltran is ok…… Church is great and we can only hope for Reyes. Ever since Willie benched him last year for not hustling he’s been bad.
I’m hoping Reyes is just immature, and not an idiot. That just amplifies the need for better coaching. He needs someone to figure out whether he responds to tough love or constant encouragement. The best coaches can tailor their styles.
I agree….. The Mets are not better than their record in 2008.
HEY TREX23- you and I think exactly a like- couldn’t have said it better myself- read my reply
Yes, It’s disturbing to admit, but Jose Reyes just isn’t that good. He has not improved in any facet of the game and, in fact, he is getting worse. As I said, he gets by on natural talent and guesswork. If a respected veteran could take him under his wing (a la Crash Davis to Nuke LaLoosh) and teach him about the game, he COULD be fantastic. But apparently no one can get through his thick skull and the Mets put too much stock in him. They rely on him too much to spark the offense and he is basically an unreliable player.
I would rather the Mets REALLY shake things up this year and get it out of the way so that the smoke clears and the STENCH of the past two years is gone by the time they move into Citi Field. Bold steps need to be taken because THIS team isn’t coming back. They are what they are — old, untalented, brittle and unmotivated.
Fire Omar. Fire Willie. Release Delgado and Castillo. Try to trade Beltran and I don’t know what to do with Reyes. Part of me says to send him down to New Orleans for a few weeks. He needs a wakeup call. But by all indications, he’s apparently very sensitive and that could send him into a funk. But how could the funk be worse than the one he’s been in? And isn’t the very reason he goes into these funks the thing that makes you want to send him down — his immaturity?
Trade Aaron Heilman and promote Joe Smith to Heilman’s spot. Release or trade Sosa and use Vargas or Figueroa as the long man for now. Is it possible that there is not a second baseman out there better than Castillo?
This all needs to be done THIS year. And it wouldn’t even be giving up on the year. In fact, it would probably only improve the Mets chances of making the playoffs. But this has to get done now. If it doesn’t, it will surely happen next year and then two years will be down the drain.
Sosa is not even on the team, good call.
The Wilpons should make a short list of GM’s that are attainable and choose the one with the best plan to turn this around. If that plan includes Willie being dispatched or trading Beltran or what ever the plan, then go with it.
Best plan wins the job
Anyone for Cashman? He may be available
I’d rather have the Yankees scouts than Cashman. Despite the rough start, I’m fairly certain that Huges and of course Joba will be better than any pitcher we’ve ushered in in years.
Cashman is overrated. It not hard to get top-tier players when you have an unlimited budget. GMs like Beane who put together strong teams on a low budget are much better than Omar or Cashman.
Are you insane? Have you seen the Yanks waste of money and losing over the last 5 or 6 years?
The problem is hiring and signing over the hill guys!
I think there a couple of rings that Cashman may have been a part of. Agreed that there are some contracts with insane length to them. Sounds framilar
I dont know how to fix this team and im tired of hearing the same thing from dwright and all the others that talk to the media. This is something we ALL know and can see with our own eyes. They are playing inconsistant. These guys are professionals not just a bunch of kids put together on a community league. They should start acting as such and Fix the problem instead of just identifying it day after day, week after week. This team needs alot of work and i do not know where to start with this team, even though probably the obvious answer is wille…i dont think getting rid of him will be enough. Its early in the season and we got enough time to turn it around…i(along with the team apparently) just dont know how to go about doing that.
The thing is, we may have fired the wrong coach last year. Down may not have been getting through to hitters, but they seemed to have had more of a game plan than they do under HoJo. The Mets pitching, however, has been stagnant for a while. Conforming to Rick-style may have helped Maine blossom and Ollie temporarliy regain form, but by now, most of the Met pitchers now have the same approach. It’s all fastball, change, slider. Not one Met pitcher, save for our two injured ones, throws a straight curve, and so hitters can more easily rip off hot streaks knowing that the pitchers have been groomed to follow a similar approach to getting guys out.
Save Willie. Fire Rick.
NEWS FLASH!!! The Mets are not that good! 2006 passed a long time ago…and sadly so did 2005. This team just doesn’t have it.
A hot streak would be nice, and given the parity in the division, it might be all they need to propel them to the post season. But frankly, I don’t just want a hot streak. Have them win 12 in a row and then play .500 again? No. What I want is clean, crisp, fundamentally sound consistent baseball. The ‘86 Mets (I know I know this is not that team) wasn’t a hot streak team. For that matter neither were the’06 Mets. They were consistent grinders who lost a few in a row on occasion and won a few in a row. But they for the most part played to their ability and won more often (far more often) than they lost.
Actually, if they win 12 in a row and then play .500 again, that’s fine here! Because they”’ still be 12 over .500 which is about 9 more games over .500 than this team will actually finish
That’s not my point. Like I said in my post, a hot streak would be nice, but I’d rather have a team that stays even-keeled for the most part (and in a winning fashion, of course!)
you’re right, and that, to me, is what’s so perplexing (considering it’s essentially the same guys).
look what manager change his lineup when the team has a 5 game winning streak?? but almighty Willie and his “feelings” wanted to do it..
willie gotta go.. FREE WILLIE!!!!!!!
Although I agree with Matt that firing Willie might not be the best option to get the players to play smarter and be more patient at the plate I do think something must be done. And maybe it does start with us as fans. We need to show them that everygame, every inning and every at bat and every pitch is important. On two srike pitches during any inning lets treat it like a playoff game especially at home and get on our feet and cheer and clap encouraging our pitcher to throw a strike and sit them down. We do need to be more supportive however at the same time it is hard to continue to urge them on only to see lack of effort. Heilman needs to go at whatever cost (on a side -note I also love to watch Notre Dame lose) just get him outta here, eversince game 7 to Yadier he’s been lost, like Lidge he might just need a change and not necessarily to a SP role. Delgado, just f/n dive for aball and stop lunging make the extra effort and if you can’t maybe there’s a good DH posiition for you.
can Pete Rose be our hititng coach? i know probably not, but we do need someone that will alter our hitters approach depending on who we’re facing that day
Send Willie packing ?…..then the piss poor play will continue, but with an excuse— I can hear it now— “well ,with a new manager,we are in a transitional period. We will soon turn the corner.” My point being, is change just for the sake of change really gonna accomplish anything? Willie may be insane (he sure sounds it) , but I dont think any other manager is gonna cure inconsistancy.*sigh*
You cannot really blame Omar for this situation. When he came aboard this team had absolutely nothing but Reyes and Wright.
He signed Beltran in his prime when this team had absolutely no one. He traded Mike Jacobs and Petit, who is awful, for Delgado who put up monster numbers in that huge ballpark in Miami. He got Reyes to sign for practically nothing when he was a 23 yr old MVP candidate. He brought in Maine, Perez, Schneider, Church, Sanchez, Wagner, etc.
Do you really think the likes of Heath Bell and Brian Bannister would make this team much better.
Omar has done a great job up until this point. You cannot blame him for his moves after the players he gets do not perform. Because at the time he made the moves no one complained.
Oh I forgot to mention he brought in Santana as well.
Great Point. There’s no reason Omar should go or even be on the hot seat. He has done a very good job.
to kill the monotony of all thing willie, mlb.com projects the following for the mets #18 draft selection this year:
New York Mets: Ike Davis, OF, Arizona State
With a pair of picks in the top 30 (they’ve also got No. 22), word is the Mets are looking for some college hitters who can move quickly. Davis, the son of former big league reliever Ron, may have missed some time recently with an oblique issue, but he was having a terrific season to put him in this position. Castro could get a look if they decide to go with college catching and there’s likely to be some interest in any of a number of those college power arms should they be here, from Perry and Cashner to Georgia’s Josh Fields, JC product Craig Kimbrel and Mississippi State’s Aaron Weatherford. Right now, though, the bat seems more likely.
How about Ike Broflovsky? He’s Canadian, like Morneau.
how about adding the mercury mets uniform to the mets rotation?
That’s another uniform. Too many.
Willie is so Paranoid I wouldn’t be surprised if he reads this site and the comments section to see what fans think of him rather than focusing on the next opponent.
THE METS WINDOW TO WIN HAS CLOSED!
In the last 153 games this team is 76-77. If the Mets had superior talent then regardless of what Willie does this team would have been at least 10 games over .500 in that span.
In 2006, Willie made some questionable in-game decisions but it didn’t affect the team long term because they were just better than everyone else.
The fact is that the Braves with Tex, McCann, Francoeur, Chipper and Escobar have 5 everyday players better than the Mets. The Phillies have 3 everyday players better than their Met counterparts in Utley, Rollins and Howard.
With the regression of Reyes and the fact that Beltran has not joined the MLB elite like everyone expected, the only player that can be considered a star on the Mets is David Wright. At this point, we have 1 legit star. (the numbers say that star is Ryan Church)
The Mets traded away their young prospects to win now. But the “now” was a one year window in 2006 and that window has closed. Hindsight, signing Alou was a mistake because we should have developed one of our outfield prospects.
It is not a stretch to say that Beltran and Castillo have begun their decline. Delgado and Alou are no longer star players, they are simply serviceable MLB players.
The pythagorean record for the 2007 Mets was 86-76. All the analysts saw this team was fading and you saw that being demonstrated on the field. You don’t think the Braves know that they have 5 players better than any Met? The Phillies know they are better than us. The Marlins know they are younger and have more upside. We have the over-the-hill but don’t know it squad. The entire league knows except the Mets.
This season is not going to bare any fruit, the Mets need to regroup and fast. They need to overspend to get those players that are in their prime and are stars. They need to spend money in the draft and retool the farm system. The Wilpons and Minaya may be fooling themselves but they had better wake up and open up that Met vault and secure the future.
Reyes, Wright, Maine, Pelfrey, and Santana is the core now. Everyone else is fair game for trades.
The firestorm around Willie Randolph is overshadowing the fact that the Mets are past their prime. Minaya the last two seasons has added Alou and Santana to try and revive old bones. Minaya had better stop hiding behind the “expectations” he knows this team can’t reach.
Randolph is just the fall guy so Minaya can get his act together. But sooner or later someone is going to take a look at the numbers and see that this team is playing with expectations that the numbers don’t support. This offseason and amatuer draft will determine where this team is heading in the next few years.
76-77 in 153 games? Thats not on the Manager, thats on the talent. You can’t be “lethargic” that long but you can be beaten by better teams with better talent. You can’t underachieve for 153 games but you damn sure can come crashing back to earth.