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The Mets (22-22) lost to the Braves (25-21) by a score of 11 to 4 tonight at Turner Field.
For a complete recap and box score, check out SNY.tv.
Well, that was painful to watch. Keith Hernandez said it best during tonight’s broadcast, the Mets have hit rock bottom and have nowhere to go but up.
Mike Pelfrey had excellent stuff tonight, but he just couldn’t locate any of his pitches, which allowed the Braves hitters to sit on pitches in hitters counts. Pelfrey also got a bit unlucky in the third inning when a two out grounder was poorly played by Luis Castillo that allowed the Braves to score three runs in the inning.
The thing is, I’m not even sure it mattered much that Castillo bobbled the ball as Pelfrey couldn’t locate and it was going to catch up with him sooner or later. And, in the fifth it did, when another three Braves runs crossed the plate.
The bullpen wasn’t much better as the three reliever that followed, Pedro Feliciano, Joe Smith and Scott Schoeneweis proceeded to give up five runs over two innings.
Billy Wagner continued his streak of 18.0 innings not allowing an earned run as he got himself out of a no out base loaded jam in the bottom of the eighth.
Moises Alou left the game in the bottom half of the third inning with a cramp in his left calf. Unreal. Bunions, boots, staph infections and now cramps. What other strange injuries will occur to the Mets this season?
Hate to say this, but I think Chipper Jones might just make a run a hitting .400 this year. I know it’s still May, but he misses just enough games due to injury that he may hit .400 and still qualify with enough at-bats.
Oh, Endy Chavez, where have you gone? Your failing up at the plate and you allowed your first fielding error in three years. You haven’t been the same since your hamstring injury last June.
The Mets can’t get out of their own way and it’s not fun watching this team lately. Once the Braves took the lead in the third I knew it was over and this team wasn’t making a coming back. That’s a shame, I’ve always been pretty optimistic even in their down years, but lately it’s been hard to have that optimistic attitude that I desperately want to have.
On the bright side I can add a new Keithism to my vocabulary. “Stinkowski,” which was used by Keith when describing how the Giants and Padres played in the mid-80’s. However, just as Cerrone said in last night’s postGame, the SNY broadcast crew cannot continue to be the most entertaining part of the game.
The Mets look to avoid the sweep as Johan Santana faces off against Tim Hudson tomorrow night in at Atlanta at 7:10 pm.
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Fire him already.
It is obvious the team is waiting for it to hapen.
Howie said exactlythat in the radio broadcast. “This team definitley seems to be waiting for the other shoe to drop. You get that feeling strongly. Whether it’s a big deal, or, a change in the manager’s office.”
And there aren’t any big deals to be made.
No kidding. Howie seemed to sense he was treading on controversy, so i think he threw in the deal idea after the waiting for the other show to drop comment.
the perfect player that will be a solution to most of the mets problems is Xavier Nady. The mets should give up anybody in the minors but FMART to get him.
Nady can play LF for all the times Alou is out. Can play RF for church once in a while. And play 1b for delgado. This will put alot of pressure on delgado or else he would be put on the bench.
Then, come next year, we let alou go and have an outfield of nady, beltran and church.
im telling you, this guy is the perfect fit for the team.
You are 100% right RespectDaBestRM!
Nady is absolutely the perfect fit for this team, bar none. They never should have traded him away in the first. Yes, Oliver has been a surprise but Nady’s the man. If you recall when Nady was in the middle of that line-up the METS were a very balanced offense. As soon as they traded him their run production (especially against lefties) went way down. The guy was well liked by all his team mates and Fans. An outfield of Church, Beltran & Nady is as good as it gets.
I’ve also been on the Nady bandwagon and I hated it when they traded him He was actually my Favorite player with the Mets. Bring Back Nady!!!!!!!!!!!!
why would the Pirates trade Nady? to do us a favor
Here’s some telling stats:
the Mets are batting .214 w/RISP and 2 outs, .268 in innings 1-6 but just .227 in innings 7+; they are also batting just .224 when it’s “close and late.” they’re collective team batting average is .255.
every game that I watch, if the Mets don’t score first, I feel like I might as well stop watching. This team shows no heart once something goes wrong. once one thing goes wrong, they seem to lose focus and suddenly everything is going wrong. i also have no confidence in them right now to come from behind at any point in the game, let alone a late comeback. It just seems like once something goes wrong, everything goes wrong, not just in a game, but in an entire series, like this one against the braves. they are just too streaky, it’s painful to watch day in and day out.
It’s time for them to say, they dont have the talent. Delgado has not looked good since 2006, it’s time to get another first baseman. Castillo looks lost,it’s time to get another 2nd baseman. they need a full time leftfielder, and Marlon Anderson may have lost it too. It’s time for them to dump Heilman and give some kid a try, like theydid with joe Smith.
They probably do need a better 2nd baseman, but Omar brilliantly locked up Castillo for 4 years. NO ONE is taking that contract on. Castillo cannot be moved.
anyone notice that our idiot manager pitches smith, feliciano, schoenweis and wagner in a blowout and leaves Heilman and Wise to pick their ass???
You are supposed to pitch the struggling guys when the game is over Willie.
You also start the Leftie catcher against the righty pitcer and visa versa in a double header.
Willie ruined 2006 when he didn’t sacrafice. He lost control in 2007 and his team started a brawl when all they needed was a win. In 2008 when the NEED a fight, they lay down and die.
He got KILLED by Beltran when he didn’t argue for him to get his homerun when the umps blew the call, and then pulled the same crap Sunday night…. HES A JOKE!!!
OZZY GUILLEN’S TEAM STRUGGLES AND HE BRINGS IN BLOW UP DOLLS AND THEY START WINNING!!!
BRING IN BACKMAN, LET HIM GO CRAZY!!!!
Willie hasn’t hit and run in his entire tenure as manager. When a team struggles, its the manager’s job to find ways to get the offense going.
IS THERE EVEN A SIGN FOR HIT AND RUN?????
As I said in the other post, amazing some of the clueless comments that get posted on here.
TheIcon,
Share your wisdom, oh wise one. How do we turn this mess around? Is it SNY’s fault?
Icon, when has the team hit and run?
do you even watch the games?
they hit and run all the time.. I’m not going to defend willie, this team, or anything else, but come on, at least be accurate. In fact, Reyes’ second stolen base tonight came on a big swing and miss from Wright .. Very well could have been a hit and run right there.
I missed that (including most of the game). Did Reyes look back to see if the ball was hit or did he keep on running with his focus on 2nd as in a straight steal?
A swing and miss does not necessarily mean a hit and run was on, it most likely was Wright trying to protect Reyes on a straight steal.
good question .. I didn’t notice either way… the real point is that this team hits and runs regularly. They’ve even tried a couple squeezes this year. Alou stole home on a double steal. They’ve been creative. It just hasn’t worked. Whose fault? Manager? Players? CitiField? Who knows? Who cares? A change is warranted one way or another. I’ve always been a Willie guy, but it’s hard to see this storm subsiding, unless we get back in the top two or three in the division, and soon, I can see a (over?-)correction of course.
yes, they hit (sometimes) and they run (usually not to hard)…
but they never hit & run…
thats a great point, Heilman should have pitched tonight, Willie thinks backwards
“Keith Hernandez said it best during tonight’s broadcast, the Mets have hit rock bottom and have nowhere to go but up.”
I hope he is right. It could get a lot worse.
And Matt, Endy doesn’t play enough to be a shell of the player he was. Willie doesn’t EVER play him anymore… how do expect him to get going????
Mike wrote the post, as evidenced by his byline and picture, not Matt.
Whatever…. too much marlon anderson and not enough endy
Too much day old bread and not enough two-day old bread? Stale either way.
Endy is not that good!!! He is a defensive replacement, that’s it! Guys like that are a dime a dozen.
It is quite possible to hit bottom and keep digging. Even more painful when you hit rock bottom and keep banging on the rocks below.
I expect them keep on playing as they have for the past 150 or so games. They will win some, giving the indication they have turned it around, and then lose some. Now just when you think they are done they will win some again.
here is a pattern. We win2 against the Reds and loose 3 against the Nats, then we win2 against the Yankees and loose 3 against the Braves. At this pace we will be fighting with the Nats to stay out of the basement. The only thing I can say is that the rest of the division is playing bad right now. IF and t hats a big IF we can hang around in the thick of it and then go on a 9-1 skid before the Braves or Phillies do we MAY have a chance. IF the Braves or Phillies get that hot steak going first I dont think we have the heart and fire to figh back up to the top. Im sorry, thats just what I think after watching the team end 07 and start 08. LETS GO METS
It’s over people.
HIRE BUCK SHOWALTER NOW………
yea that’s the key, hire the guy who every team fires so they can finally win something…
Watching Post game. Love these guys but has anyone noticed how much smarter all the ex-players are now that they’re no longer playing? I really believe if all this analysis was that easy to translate into action, this Mets team would have done it all by now…..
Ok, so….how was this one Bill Webb and the SNY crew’s fault? Surely it was…just have to figure out how. Let’s figure it out to help our fearless leader Willie in his postgame.
Rock bottom? Oh no no no….rock bottom is going to be yet another stinker at Shea, featuring non-stop booing and “Fire Willie” chants from minute one.
Shea Stadium will be the Madison Square Garden of baseball.
Except MSG has many more banners :(
Ummm, ithe Knicks and Mets each have 2 championship banners…..
I almost think the Wilpons need to wait until they get home for a game or two before firing Willie just to give the fans the chance for that sort of catharsis of the nonstop fire willie chants, etc.
This fanbase never had the chance last season as there was some hope right up until the first inning of the last game, which was followed up mainly by shock.
Listen, as much as I want to go and boo Willie, I would be much happier to see someone else doing the job next time I get there.
Delgado is out there joking around with Gotay and we’re getting our butts kicked. Remember, HE’S BORED!!!
Good point. When Glavine gave that game away in the first inning and the Phillies took the lead in there game all we could do was sit in stunned disbelief. Then Glavine, who could not win a game in September, runs back to the Braves and never really addresses the fans. He could not beat the Braves for the first 10 starts as a MET and then kicks our butt and proves that all the talk about being a Brave at heart and not really wanting to play in NY was all true. We are angry and we are in pain and we want WINS and results. If this team really wants Willie to keep his job they better win the next four games.
Thats the problem, not sure it has to even be a stinker. Obviously, they are not going to have a winning trip unless they win 3 of the next 4, its going to be ugly at Shea, Randolph will not be able to step out of the dugout.
There are 118 games left, its not over but something has to be done. They may not be a great team, but they are better than this.
They are going to have to make a change,
Mets are the 4th place team in the NL east. When they actually fall to 4th place, the Wilpons’ will start the wheels in motion……
:?:
the party’s over for willie and soon omar. the team is a failure.
Omar may get a reprieve, but they will have to play better.
I just don’t see it turning around for willie, there is this cloud over them, its palpable.
yes, omar will last out the season. but, the writing is on the wall for him. if this team stinks in a new ballpark? omar is toast.
Lets see Omar brought in Santana, Church, and Schneider, I think he has brought in the pieces this off season, has he been perfect, but this team was a mess when he took it over, he’s bought the groceries, but the Chef(Willie) has been a mess since game 7 of the 2006 NLCS
Omar may be forced to fire Bernazard to keep his job. Can’t have a two tier system. One for Spanish speakers, one for everyone else. That can kill your clubhouse and it’s showing.
Pathetic. I hate to use that word for them, but there isn’t another printable one out there I can use without sounding like a sailor on a bender.
And to think, I was once an optimist about this club. I’d like to think Santana going tomorrow means a win is possible, but the offense will find a way to lose (i.e. get shutout). He probably wishes he’d gone to Boston about now….
Hudson will make them look silly, unfortunately
Post game, he was the only one who looked pissed off in the whole dugout
Because he knows he will have to throw a shut out AND homer tomorrow to get a win..
Johan is wishing he wasn’t here….can’t blame him
Lol I’m thinking the same thing. I feel bad for him.
Hard to feel badly for a guy making that much…but I do.
Same here
Well he is thanking his lucky stars he didn’t go the the Yankees, but those Red Sox are so good, that yep I feel bad for the guy.
this team is a joke.. willie is a joke… this is like watching the bonilla / coleman teams… no heart and no hope… willie = dallas green… god, this is awful. no heart, no fire…. if they go 0-7 on this trip does willie get fired? he has to, right?
need writers
metsfansforever.com
email me wesommer@gmail.com
great game boys… way to be
Piazza – may seem crazy, but Wilpon talks him into retiring, so he can manage the team AND fans that he carried on his shoulders for the last chunk of years.
What manager would have more people wearing HIS jersey than any player (except Wright) in the stands?
Still may sound crazy, but what better way to help win over the fans than bring back the most favorite Met of the past 10 years?
Sanity speaking now, Piazza hasn’t managed a game in his life so the above is just crazy talk.
but come on, this team has not been the same since the middle of last season….not the collapse…but the middle of last season.
Only a WS ring will appease the Met fans with Randolph.
They will be forced to make a change, the animosity from the fans is just overwhelming.
They are planning another 25% increae in ticket prices I’m sure, and they hope to strong arm the partial plan owners into purchasing full plans – this is their worst-case scenario!
They will have to move, and move soon just to change the attitude of the fanbase.
If you want Piazza here, you hire HOJO to manage and make Piazza the hitting coach
You would promote HOJO after the way the hitters have performed. Laughable, he could hit the road too at this point.
Don’t you see? Any Met from your youth would make a good manager! Where’s Hubie Brooks these days? Daryl Boston? Keith Miller? Dave Magadan?
JOEL YOUNGBLOOD
That’s not crazy. Catchers have made some of the best managers. Look at Mike Scioscia.
if the manager doesn’t matter like the willie fan club likes to keep saying, why not give it a shot?
mets at the movies was fun in between innings. i finally caught a party patrol shirt! hilariously, they’re from last year too.
(i don’t actually think the willie fan club still has any members)
There are a few left. You’ll see them next time the Mets win. They show up after the game is over and say “WEAR ARE ALL TEH WILLY HATERS NOW??????”
Don’t bother responding to them. The log off right after that.
Keith Hernandez – Manager
Tom Seaver – Pitching Coach
Mike Piazza – Hitting Coach
Edgardo Alfonzo – 3rd Base Coach
Mookie Wilson – 1st Base Coach
Gary Carter – Bench Coach
Yea, that’ll work…
No, they’ll say that the manager “doesn’t matter” and that we should therefore let Willie keep his job because he’s a nice guy, and we wouldn’t want to upset him.
Seriously, that’s not much of an exaggeration. One guy thinks that turning Heilman into a starter and bringing up Dan Murphy would solve all of our problems. It’s bad, folks. Bad.
Gregg Jefferies – Equipment manager
Garry Templeton – marketing director
Bobby Bonilla – Mr. Met
Tony Fernandez – @#$#%!!
Butch Huskey – concessions director
METS AT THE MOVIES – “As Bad As It Gets”
Two thumbs down.
0 Stars
Best comedy in years! Four stars! Two thumbs way up!
I think it was more like 25 thumbs up – their own butts.
The feel bad movie of the year.
Best quote from the film: “It smelled like slow death in there. Malaria. Nightmares.”
What do you think? 2008 slogan? Would look great on a bus!
What movie was playing? Armageddon? The Mets…errr…Mess certainly weren’t!
i wished that the braves beamed wright, benches cleared (maybe willie throw a punch or two, just kidding) just to get this team going. We also have to remember…the mets are ONLY three and a half games back…the east this year is very close. Maybe johan can lead us to victory, get the team rolling into colorado, score double digits there, win three of the next four and keep it going against the marlins….if that happens things will be good
Are you kidding? If there was ever a bench clearing brawl half the team would be in the dugout on the phone making dinner plans.
and the other half would suffer season ending injuries.
i think the argument of the mets are only x games out of first are starting to get very old. this team could be 7 games in first and still not the make the playoffs. what makes you think it can come from 3.5 games back?
jakeha23, you say they are only 3.5 games out……….Hmmm..
A few days ago they wer “Only” 1.5 games out.
Yesterday they were “Only” 2.5 games out.
By this time next week you’ll be saying……..”don’t worry, they’re “Only” 6.5 games out, it’s still a young season.
Yeah, right.
This team is comatose! If Wright gets hit, the only reason they’ll clear the bench is to go to the infirmary!!
I’m sure the Braves were itching to hit someone, anyone, but Cox is too smart for that. He knows the Mets are barely alive. He doesn’t want his team doing anything to bring them back to life.
During Mets Extra Cox as much as said he was pissed off with the Mets. The Church slide into Escobar was mostly exercising him, but you know all those HBP’s are starting to add up to a lot of bad feeling. If the Braves catch the Mets while the Mets are winning I fully expect Atlanta to unload on the Mets. If the Mets ever start to win consistently. If.
This Mets season is like the movie Groundhog Day and Willie Randolph is Ned Ryerson
so, a punch in the face is forthcoming?
or another plunge into the pothole
my favorite part of the ryerson bit was when murray finally has enough and just pops him even before he opens his mouth. classic movie.
by the way, this season sort of feels like that movie.
Alou heading back to NY
Is Alou that kindly old man who stops by the Mets from time to time?
he is the one whose hand you do not want to shake
Kindly old man, smelly hands….you got him pegged.
firing willie won’t change the team’s performance. it will just shift the anger to omar. then the wilpons.
if willie is fired omar needs to make a few moves to infuse some life in the clubhouse and team along with selecting the right replacement not promoting manuel or anyone else currently on the staff.
suggestions: hire showalter to replace bernazard as head of player development; hire a manager with winning credentials such as tom kelly; bring in a professional hitting coach with a long resume; hire jose valentin as first-base coach; cut or bench delgado and trade for sean casey who is a gritty, consistent player; trade for cliff floyd to platoon with alou; mark cuban buys the team.
the two trade won’t require giving up much talent and are short-term solutions to critical problems in the clubhouse and daily line-up in terms of grit and joy.
Suggestions:
1) Fire Willie
2) Enjoy Mets baseball again
I’m in. Where do I sign up?
amen.
When Willie has lost Zen, he has lost Met nation. How are you doing, buddy?! Some bold but interesting suggestions. The one that I don’t think is realistic is Floyd. I think he’s injured – what a shocker! But maybe you were kidding. If Tom Kelly would take the job, he would be an interesting choice, although I don’t know how he’d handle New York after playing in Minnesota. But the guy has a great track record. I do feel sorry for the new guy that has to come into the middle of this stormy environment. I think Obama is the best pick and maybe Hillary could be the bench coach – of course, Keith would have some things to say about that:)
floyd is definately a stretch. i just saw him return the other night and remembered his relationship with wright and his positive impact in the clubhouse.
i’d go after casey tomorrow.
Seriouslly, Willie losing zen’s support is like Cronkite and the Vietnam war.
I dont think Keith would mistake her for a woman.
we should have had casey in the offseason. i could get behind tom kelly.
Casey would be just what the doctor ordered. Then the doctor could fire Willie.
I think the mets need to clean house and get rid of delgado, castillo, alou, schneider, perez, pedro, pelfrey, heilman, and easley. they should build the team around wright, reyes, beltran, santana, maine, and wagner. A few suggestions for pickups: 1) SP Bronson Arroyo – Cincinnati 2) 1B Todd Helton – Colorado 3) SS-2B J.J. Hardy. they are all dispensable by their teams.
Schneider?
don’t get schneider, either.
Schneider? Another dumb suggestion on this board. Do anyone here really know anything about baseball?
have you seen how many passed balls schneider has had lately?
“The Icon.” Calling suggestions “dumb” without a reason or an alternative is, well . . ..
right, we’ll replace Schneider with…who, exactly? A few passed balls is better than 99.9% of catchers out there who can’t hit or field.
And where is Church in this discussion? We getting rid of him too?
If the pitchers could actually execute and get the ball in to his glove it would be another story but being that most of them can’t be bothered to execute properly, passed balls happen.
Yeah, and who exactly will they get for these pieces of sh*t?
Not anyone you mention
Schneider? Pelfrey?
I’m with you until you get to Cliffy and Mark Cuban.
above refers to zen’s comment, obviously.
That would give my screen name a whole new meaning.
Not bad.
Dunno about Cuban and Floyd coming here, but at least the ideas are there.
I feel terrible for Randolph. He wants to win more than any of his players other than probably Wright and Church. Willie is a New York guy, he grew up a Mets fan, and I really think that nobody wants the Mets to win more than Willie. With that said there is something wrong and I cannot put my finger on it. Obviously Willie would be the easiest change to make but I would love to see this team go on a tear and go to the playoffs with Willie as the manager.
“I would love to see this team go on a tear and go to the playoffs with Willie as the manager.”
I’ve been saying it all year, but I just don’t see it happening. This team is going nowhere fast.
i know i want the mets to win more than willie. i just watch and wish because i love the mets. willie gets paid to want them to win.
I completely agree with you. Omar should be on the hook for putting this group of uninspired players together.
Look, Lets wait a second here. This team is the same team, for the most, that went to game 7 in 2006. We lost Valentine, Floyd, LoDuca and cleared some dead wood off the bench. We gained Church, Schneider and Santana. I think we did improve the team. Why they suck and are playing like the Bad News Bears, I dont know. I think the big collapse of 2007 may have had a bigger effect on the team then we thought it did. We need a change and the only change that can really be made is Willie. Sure we can trade players away, but, someone has to want them and we need to replace them. I didnt even waste my time watching any of the Braves games. And I dont think I will watch tonight, at this point, a win dont really matter much. So we win one and then go play the Rockies and loose 2. Its all the same. Until this team pulls there collective head out of that deep dark hole between there legs, we will continue to see lifeless baseball.
I still don’t understand how this is all Willie’s fault. Even the opposing team’s announcers are mocking the criticism. It’s not Willie’s fault Castillo double clutched that throw. It’s not Willie’s fault Mike Pelfrey gives up a two-out walk to Chipper Jones which opens up a big inning.
Randolph can’t go out there and play for these guys. Even if he did call for more hit-and-run plays, the players still have to execute those situations and I’m not too sure they can do that right now.
Of course in the end Randolph will take the fall because that’s what happens in sports. You can’t bench players or release them because there is so much money involved and above all else, sports is a business. It’s sad, but true.
What’s sad is that Willie doesn’t do anything to stop the bleeding!
He should have gotten thrown out of that game Sunday night and shown his support for his guys in front of a national audience. Instead, Manuel does his dirty work for him…. PATHETIC!!! If people don’t respect you, they don’t bust their asses for you. Bottom Line
YOU GO !!! Good call, I agree !!! Willie had a chance to show his fire and support his team and player and blew it big time. When all is said and done I think people will look back at that moment and say that was the turning point for Willie as a Met. He looked like a scared little kid hiding in the dugout as his bench coach did his fighting for him. BAD WILLIE.
Its definitely not his fault, but he has so poisoned the atmosphere around the franchise it will be even more difficult for the players to turn it around.
I really stuck up for him, but is it that hard to believe that the last few days have really put a strain on the team?
it’s not all willie’s fault. but it’s partly his fault. it has to be.
Sigh. No, Willie does not pitch. No, he does not hit. But he sets the tone. He’s responsible for “managing” the team — making sure there’s a gameplan. Keeping the team motivated and on the same page. Yeah, I know, they’re grown men, etc., etc. It would be great if players didn’t need a manager, coaching, etc. This is the real world, however, and not a simulation. They are trying to perform at their absolute peak against other top notch professional athletes. Every edge matters, including the boss, the teammates, etc. The psychological state of the team matters, and the manager CAN be a large part of that. He has to be able to shepherd the team through adversity. Willie creates it instead.
Great post.
I don’t think firing Willie necessarily ensures that this team starts to play well, but you’ve got to start making changes somewhere, and you have to start at the bottom of the latter.
I think we should get the whole team using ‘Just for Men’ so they can ALL START SCORING !!!!
“Unreal. Bunions, boots, staph infections and now cramps. What other strange injuries will occur to the Mets this season?”
these injuries are not remotely surprising, given the absurd contracts given to players like El Duque, Alou, Castillo, etc, etc, etc. Anyone can see that; it’s been this way for two years.
Nothing you can do about a cramp. That could happen to an 18-year-old.
you are absolutely right. Normally Alou is a man of iron.
Wake up Icon, it is a quad strain and he is en route to NY.
Alreadymissshea mentioned this already but Harold Reynolds is tremendous at analyzing the game.
I’d recommend him for manager but the racists and SNY would frame him.
He’s doing a fantastic job. I always liked him. I’m still not exactly sure about what happened over at ESPN, but he stood right up to them, so I have a feeling he got a raw deal. Their loss is our gain.
“Alreadymissshea mentioned this already but Harold Reynolds is tremendous at analyzing the game.”
Much better than Maz. The guy saids it like it is without sugar coating.
Willie Randolph is the reason why gas costs 4 dollars a gallon
Nope, it’s SNY’s fault.
Metsfanmurph,
In the in-game thread, you said you don’t think Willie deserves to be fired. Then I asked you the following, which you didn’t answer. Perhaps you’d be kind enough to respond now?
“If the greatest collapse in the history of baseball (which is not exactly a new sport) and a calendar year of sub-.500 ball with a talented team, and now delusional behavior about SNY conspiracies is not deserving of being fired…pray tell, what would qualify in your mind as deserving?”
Hmmm…didn’t think so.
What’s really scary is what if no coach can get this team to player well? Where do you even begin to change this roster structurally? You have so many guys with big contracts, not to mention players that you assume would be big pieces for years to come. I mean, do the Mets even consider rebuilding?
They should have been revamping the farm system years ago. Omar was supposed to have done so. When you get a chance, take a look at how our A-ball club is doing.
Beltran is NOT getting it done. his most consistant hits are DP balls, Delgado, well, what more needs be said, Castillo, slappy. Now we have Alou gone and Endy not playing well. Schneider is catcher and a pitcher in the line up. So all we really have is Church, Reyes and Wright. The rest of the team is NOT getting it done. We have 2 bench players in every game and average 1 run a game. If or rater when the other team takes the lead its all over. Beltran has not been held accountable as much as Delgado has. He said the METS are the team to beat and then he went south. Face it people we are stuck with this collection of players for this year. Lets prey that some changes are made and 2009 in the new park is a new team with a new attitude.
I want to start by saying that I’m on the Fire Willie bandwagon…HOWEVER.
It’s not Willie that signed a 2B w/ two bum knees. The same second basemen who f’ed up defensively and allowed 3 runs to score.
It’s not Willie’s fault that Alou gets injured every other day.
Willie can’t “make” Beltran and Delgado play better.
I tend to agree with Cerrone, in that, yes Willie has a very short leash but will getting rid of him really make a difference. At this point, I can honestly say I don’t think it will.
Yes, he’s made bad managing decisions, on occasion. But look at this team, they’re playing terribly and making mental mistakes They also couldn’t hit water if they fell out of a boat.
That’s not Randolph’s fault. These guys are in their 20’s and 30’s, they KNOW baseball. They KNOW “how” to hit.
Willie’s job is to manage, not to play.
I agree that a “change” must be made but what “change” should it be? A trade? Fire Bench/Hitting Coaches? What?
I believe that when players continue to make mental mistakes, that is a direct reflection on the manager. It’s his job to bench/fine those guys for mental mistakes….Castillo missed the sign for the squeeze, he didn’t fine him a penny. Reyes attempts a steal down 4-0 last night, no consequence. There is no guidance here.
I backed willie up, and I agree it may not matter who manages, if they start to hit they will win.
But someone said earlier today, “You will never know if its willies fault unless you fire him”. At some point, the Wilpons will reach that same conclusion.
It will be soon, as the 2009 Ticket Sales Machine is about to get into gear.
If you go back to last season, there were a lot of references of crap in the clubhouse. Obviously, none of us are in there, but something has to be up.
These guys are all underachieving tremendously and I have to start with Randolph…then go down the chain. Omar is not the problem (Santana, Church, Schneider this offseason; Castillo? well, either him or Gotay)
The players are under so much scrutiny when at home – and I feel that comes from the hatred of Willie….and the trickle down.
Piazza now. Fans happy, better atmosphere – fun times.
I totally agree with the “trickle down from willie”. It will make it very difficult on these players who are already under alot of pressure.
Piazza? I don’t understand why beloved Met player = successful Met manager. Hey, let’s have Keith manage, Darryl the hitting coach, Darling coach pitchers, Doc in the bullpen, blah, blah, blah. It’s silly.
Tom Kelly was the best idea I’ve read. Let Piazza start by coaching in the minors and work his way up. He’s done it before.
I like Tom Kelly as an idea, but didn’t he leave baseball because he was burned out – managing in a teeny market in Minny? Why would he want to re-enter the game managing a team that is a clusterfudge in NYC?
Can you imagine what SHEA STADIUM would have sounded if these 3 Braves games where at home? When the team comes back they will hear it and they deserve it. WIllie better get control and turn this thing around before then. We need to win the next four games for Willie’s sake and the teams sake when they return home. Shea is getting to be hostile for the Mets.
This team can’t rebuild with guys like Wright, Reyes, and Santana in their primes
all the above mentioned players are signed for the next 5-7 years anyhow
The above-mentioned players will be ok I think.
Maybe not rebuild, but some re-tooling is obviously in order.
they need to retool, not rebuild. The core is already in place, and bring in better complimentary/supporting pieces.
The need a bit more than complimenatrt pieces (a power hitting corner OF and/or 1B) and some rotation help to replace loss of Pedro and Ollie. But, I concur with your overall point.
Everyone just leave Bill R. along and let him do his job, jeez
Everyone just leave Bill R. alone i meant
Watching this team makes me want to see Bill W. instead….
I watched the entire game in 30 minutes on my dvr .. even that was painful…
let’s shift gears a bit. some of us blame omar. i don’t think he’s without upside but it may be time to replace him as well.
what do you think of paul depodesta?
Anyone go the Mets at the Movies thing? That must have been a great time had by all. I would’ve hated to work that event after hundreds of pissed off Mets fans took it out on the theater
regis probably had a bad time, he had to listen to me all game.
but all and all it was a pretty fun production, with alex anthony (the voice of shea), mr. met and the party patrol running contests between innings.
Any fire willie chants?
does me screaming qualify as a chant?
…not to mention what a powerhouse bench we have now…i mean just look at the averages of the guys who we have pinch hitting late in the game for us…anderson?? chavez?? easley?? yeah, these names strike terror into the hearts of all of the opposing teams.
look at it like a corporation.
You can have the most talented people: sales, finance, mail room, etc. – but if the President or CEO is inept, the company won’t succeed.
I have talent and want to succeed, but my last CEO was a moron and couldn’t lead us. I didn’t go to work every day with the same frame of mind in wanting to bust my butt to be the best we could.
i know it’s apples and oranges, but I have to believe that everything comes down to how well you’re led and the atmosphere of your workplace.
We already know one piece of the atmosphere (you get out of your car at work and there is 25% of your customers booing you as you walk into your office)
IMO, this isn’t a good place to work.
I am watching the Lakers game and I was thinking about the Mets mess and they just showed Frank Robinson. Hmmmmmmmmm
i can’t imagine he would want to deal with this crap. he is not a young man.
also, he may be uncomfortable succeeding willie, frankly.
Reading posts on this site is kind of like therapy…knowing other mets fans feel the same way…..i tell myself i cant watch anymore games but i end up watching them anyway….this problem needs a 2 fold solution….the manager needs to be changed because obviously the team just isnt clicking with him….and there need to be changes with the players….hoping delgado breaks out of his slump at the same time alou and castillo get healthy….and reyes, wright and beltran start swinging the bat batter is a little too much to ask for in my opinion….the pitching isnt as bad….im more worried about the players that are falling apart…and the bench which just isnt working…and someone just needs to light a fire under these guys to get them going again….
I think one of two moves has to be made to shake this team up. Unfortunately fire Willie or release Delgado. If you release Delgado who do you replace him with?
Wow, I just realized it. Joe Beningo and Uncle Leo on Seinfeld are the same person.
LOL!! I love Uncle Leo.
HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
carp?….evans?
Unfortunately teflon Omar isn’t going anywhere but his 2007 was very underrated. He let Bradford and Oliver go which were two key gogs in the bullpen, he traded Heath Bell, Matt Lidstrom and Henry Owens. Then he resigned Mota after being suspended for steriods and signed Schownweiss.
I also think this team misses Cliff Floyd’s locker room presence alot.
once again…not to mention…the state of our hitters must somehow be the responsibility of the hitting coach. we dumped downs and hired hojo. howard johnson was a great met player and i know he’s a fan favorite and we all love him, but let’s face it, he has TANKED. this team has gotten worse and worse and worse since last summer. if i had my way, i’d sign piazza as hitting coach and valentin to start as first base coach…with the hope that valentin can move into being a bench coach next year…and eventually manage the team. there’s just something about hiring ex met players to coach that always seems like the right thing to do and would make the fans stand up and cheer. i just gotta hope that they wind up better choices than hojo.
hojo was always a manager in the minor leagues and could still be a good one. but he is running out of rope here. he’s either got to move either up or out soon.
piazza for hitting coach is a no brainer.
Hojo only managed one year at Brooklyn. He stunk. After that he was only a hitting coach at each level he went to.
I do not understand the fascination with ex-Mets as coaches. Yeah, it would be great for PR, but after the Randolph experience, don’t you think TRACK RECORD might be more important than warm fuzzies? Stick the heroes of yesteryear on an SNY panel and get us a professional coaching staff.
you’re right, i been misinformed.
I really wanted Willie to succeed, and I was in his corner all the way through the choke. In a way, I am still in his corner. But reality bites.
I hate to say it, but the writing’s on the wall, and unless the Mets go on a terrific tear, he’s probably gone before the All-Star break.
I have some either ideas though. Anyone notice that Jose stopped hitting after the Mets fired their old hitting coach last year? That was about the same time he really became a pop-up artist. I think that should be investigated also.
My suggestions for Willie: realize that he’s not managing the Yankees. We can’t sit around and wait for homeruns. This team is built on speed, defense, and pitching. There are 6 guys on the Mets who could steal 20+ bases (Jose, Wright, Beltran, Castillo, Endy, Church).
For the Mets to win, I think Willie should play more small ball. Hit and run. Double steals. Sacrifice bunts. Squeeze plays. Anything to shake up the opposing defense, and rattle the pitcher. There are multiple weapons on this team. We just gotta use more than one or two.
no sacrifice bunts! please! outs are precious!
hey desperate…we had the same thought at the same time…the hitting coach has to go. HAS TO. mets front office has to start looking at the next few years and figure out their coaching staff. i still say look at cliffy, piazza and valentin for our future. they can’t be any worse than what we have and they would come into this mess with the roar of approval from the fans/
I don’t think we need to worry about the “roar of approval from the fans” as much as a hitting coach who can actually coach, and a manager who can manage. Why restrict ourselves to ex-Mets, one of whom is still an active player, for chrissake?
Absolutely
Tell you what. I stopped watching large segments of the games. Xbox is a godsend. Why watch this dreck when I can play GTA4
brucie kibbutz for manager! THAT’S HOW WE ROLL!
i never understood how making someone who hit .249 for his career a hitting coach….
ya got me there, MD, i repeat…go get piazza. .303 sounds good.
A coach’s batting average has nothing to do with whether he knows how to coach hitters. There are hitting coaches out there that never played in the majors, and just because Piazza was a very good player, doesnt mean he knows how to coach other players. It’s one thing to play the game, its another to teach it.
indeed it is a different thing to be able to coach hitters. do you think that howard johnson has done anything to prove that he knows how to coach hitters?
Other than Church crediting HoJo on revamping his stance and helping him to his hot start???
I’m sure there are others…..
i mentioned on another forum something that gets overlooked on this team is how bad the bench is this year.
anderson/easley/chavez are hitting a combined .190 coming into tonights game.
they never come through as a ph & god forbid they start in a game for alou, church or castillio its a joke.
the 3 of them have become automatic outs & when you consider the best ph on this team are usually the backup catchers,.they don’t see alot of ph opportunities because you can’t use up your only backup catcher.
lets hope the alou & church aren’t out too long because i can’t take anymore of marlon anderson hitting 2nd & dameion easley batting 5th or 6th.
and this is why i miss ruben gotay……he had POP…..
I agree. Our bench sucks! Marlon Anderson? Easley? Endy? Omar are you serious? Is this the best $138 million can buy? What a disgrace. Anderson needs to get cut now, next Easley within a week if he doesn’t start hitting. Endy after that. This is ridiculous….why not sign piazza as a pinch hitter?
Ok, maybe we gan trade Reyes and Wright for Victor Zanbrano.
I’m starting to think 06′ was a fluke for the Mets. Since last June they are .500, which is incredibly pathetic for this team. They need some changes very soon.
1 – Congratulations! That’s the first time a Mets pitcher has plunked Chipper!!! IT’S ABOUT TIME!
2 – We need Valentin back, even if it’s as a bench coach. Jose just isn’t the same with out him there.
3 – Nady is a must. Give up Heilman and the farm sans FMART
4 – Willie, your a class act. I hope the boys pick you up.
I think the bigger problem is the latin contingency doesn’t LISTEN to hojo…..for wright and church he has worked very very well…..but castillo, delgado, and beltran seem to but completely on their own, and unfortunately they dragged jose into it……..
or it could be that hojo doesnt connect with or reach out to them…..it could be either way….
at least we’re not the padres .. 17-30, they lost peavy and now young gets hit in the face with a line drive
if the organization doesn’t do anything by the next homestand… can we stage a walk out in protest? I know this could come across as childish, ignorant or short-sighted, but through my 15 years as a Mets fan I don’t ever remembering being this frustrated with the players, team and organization.
Their uninspired, lackluster plays seem to have no end in sight unless major move/moves is/are made.
To anybody who is still defending Willie saying that the manager doesn’t hit, run, or catch. HEAR THIS: The bleeping Cardinals are 27-21, the Bleeping Marlins are 26-19. Also go to the WFAN website and listen to the Dave Trembley interview with Mike & Dog and drool with jealousy as you hear what a real MLB manager sounds like. Enough already!
wikipedia on dave trembley:
“In his first year managing the Orioles he finished with a record 40-53. He is currently the only manager in Major League Baseball to not have played professional baseball.”
A sweep is in the air .
I keep hearing about willie being fired ,
At what point does Omar get the boot .This has got be the largest heist in baseball history 138 million of which 31 million is on the DL right know and the average age for these three players is 38 years old Great work omar your the biggest criminal in baseball .I bet there is some offshore account that these players are throwing a cut of there pay back to omar .Alou just retire you cant sting 15 games together Castillo you will make a great bench player somewhere
pretty soon, it will be welcome back to the boo-birds. and this team deserves every bit of it
im sick to my stomach
I was at the game tonight and it was painful. Pelf kept leaving his fastball up. The mash unit outfield couldn’t track a ball to the gap. The hitters, besides Reyes, were just flinging the bat out there. I am sick of Delgado and Alou. I fell like I want to abandon this season already.
this team is a disaster, i’ve lost faith .. we needed a win tonight, the doubleheader was an absolute waste, the two yankee games in the garbage, and tonight we needed a win, and what did the mets accomplish tonight, nothing except fall into fourth place. ive been hearing alot of , the mets playing “like” a .500 team, well now they officially are a .500 team, congratulations, this is disgusting.
Hmmm, let me be Nostradamus for a minute: Santana will pitch well enough on Thursday, but another fine effort by this year’s arson squad will help drop the Mets to 0 and 7 in At-$&@&*@-lanta for 2008.
“I have seen the future of rock n’ roll, and it’s name is Bruce Springsteen.”
- Jon Landau, 1973
“I have seen the future Mets manager, and its name is not Willie Randolph.”
- Gentry, 2008
This team is not good. They are aloof. There is absolutely no hustle on the field when they play. That was evident with Luis Castillo’s misplay last night. Or Endy not sprinting down the line to try to stop a double play. It’s the little things they don’t do that make other teams win. They have the talent to be just as good as those teams, but never will be.
With the way they played the past three games it looks like nothing sort of Gunnery Sargent Hartman can whip this team into shape.
“Are you quitting on me? Well, are you? Then quit, you slimy ___ walrus-looking piece of ___! Get the ____ off of my obstacle! Get the ___ down off of my obstacle! NOW! MOVE IT! “