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At Page 2 on ESPN.com, Paul Lukas (a self-proclaimed lifelong Mets fan) writes an interesting piece, to say the least, about 
why he hopes Mike Piazza will not be enshrined in the Hall of Fame as a New York Met.
…in my opinion, lukas should stick to writing about uniforms because he is definitely out in left field about this one…
His reasons range from utter ridiculousness, from Piazza’s response to his heterosexuality, to just plain stupid, such as, “Mike Piazza can’t slide.”
…last time I checked, players get into the Hall of Fame on their career numbers, records and accolades, not on athleticism…
…put aside his career numbers with both the Dodgers and Mets, his athleticism or lack of, whether or not he gave first base a shot, and think about where this organization was before he arrived…
…i will never forget the countless memories he left us, and as a Mets fan, i hope in five years that he will don a Mets hat in Cooperstown…
By the way, Adam Rubin of the Daily News reports that the Mets hope to honor Piazza at Shea Stadium this season.
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Well, the Mets better get their summer promotional events in order ASAP… so they can get the casual fan and tourist this summer as the fans will NOT be showing up as long as Randolph/Minaya and Delgado are around.
i really feel for the season holders
NO ONE SHOULD READ THAT ARTICLE AS IT WAS A WEAK ATTEMPT TO GET METS FANS FIRED UP ENOUGH TO LEAVE COMMENTS…. WHICH CAN ONLY HELP HIS CAREER……… CLEARLY, HE DOES NOT DESERVE HELP FROM METS FANS
WHAT A TOOL!
well i think it worked, you seem a bit fired up
Arguing whether or not Piazza should go into the Hall as a Met has been the most Therapeutic thing a Met fan can do in their current state of futility. Just not having to think about this current team is doing wonders for my stress level.
What a tool. I hope I run into this guy at Shea one day
Knowing Lukas is a Mets fan, when I clicked the link for that article yesterday on Page 2, I was clearly expecting something else.
In my opinion, that was similar to a Wallace Matthews article – A clear attempt to piss off Mets fans, and get a high number of hits on his article, as well as on the comments board.
I was thinking the same thing. Sounded very much like Wally.
I guess hes trying to branch out but that was stupid
Reading that sent chills down my spine. Who is that guy and what is his purpose? What a looooooooser!!!! One more reason I am boycotting ESPN.
So you’re not going to watch Mets games on ESPN? I recommend boycotting Lifetime or the Home Shopping Network, much easier to pull off.
I said that yesterday…Mets games are the only time I’ll watch ESPN.
“When the New York Post implied that Piazza was gay, he held that little press conference where he declared his heterosexuality. OK, fine. But he missed a huge opportunity to say, “But what if it was true? What if I was gay? So what? What if one of my teammates is gay? What if one of YOU is gay? It’s no big deal. Listen, I’m straight, but this whole thing is really a nonissue.” In a city with a huge gay population, that was an opportunity to show some real community leadership, and he totally spit the bit.”
Why would that be his responsibility? I’m not trying to start anything here, but I just don’t see what he should have to do that. I never knew that when you correct something people are saying about you that isn’t true, you also have to become a spokesperson for a cause that has nothing to do with you.
AND, if Piazza would have said “What if one of my teammates is gay?”, the NY papers would have run headlines the next day like PIAZZA HAS NO PROBLEM WITH GAY TEAMMATES. The whole thing was unnecessary. He felt like he should say something about it being incorrect, that doesn’t mean he had to take a stand for anyone else.
as a person who feels that civil rights and gay rights are very important, that was maybe the stupidest thing i have read in a long time.
and i mean the page 2 article.
What, that it’s not his responsibility?
Guess what, it’s not.
But you keep on being a professional victim.
yeah its totally not his responsibility. that “met fan” is clueless. i never get guys like that, who hate team icons. its almost like they hate them to be cool.
Paul Lukas is a funny guy and all, but attacking a baseball player (a devout Catholic, I might add), for not taking the time to turn tabloid annoyance into some sort of melodramatic “civil rights” media event is daft. Leave Piazza to his own political and religous views . . . which really have nothing to do with how he handled that issue, anyway. It’s Piazza’s personal life. He was annoyed by the rumors, and wanted to quash them. That is all. It’s not for some elitist Brooklynite weirdo to tell him to do anything differently.
Correct. I’m sure I don’t agree with a lot of Piazza’s personal views. We just come from totally different backgrounds. But he never said anything to hurt anyone. It’s not like he had to call a press conference to apologize for saying something hateful about a group of people. Had he done that, I would feel very different about it. He was not comfortable with what was being said, and he addressed it. That’s where his responsibilty ends.
We live in a pluralistic society. Paul Lukas has to live with Mike Piazza, and Mike Piazza has to live with Paul Lukas. But they don’t have to take every possible opportunity to endorse the lifestyle (or political views) of the other party.
Guys, it’s obvious that Lukas is perhaps a homosexual and/or a pro-gay activist, and he has an axe to grind with Piazza for not dealing with the gays in sports issue the Paul Lukas way.
He is simply throwing Piazza under the bus, and attempting to justify it by stating irrelevent and incorrect assessments of Piazza’s playing career.
This is so obvious.
Danny1986: your logic reveals your homophobia. You’ll probably say that I must be gay for refuting you.
Had Piazza done what Lucas suggests, he would’ve been a voice for fairness, larger than baseball. As is, he’s not harmed by not saying such things, but fairness is.
homphobia? get a life, man. I’m not afraid of no such thing. I just don’t agree with the need to politicize this and make it bigger than what it was, and that was a man sticking up for himself and his lifestyle. IF that makes him homophobic, or certainly me for agreeing with him, than you are one pathetic human being.
And don’t care how he takes it, the fact that Lukas takes this opportunity to chastise a great ballplayer just to fit his socio-political agenda is unprofessional and juvenile.
I think you can make an argument that Piazza had an opportunity to say something like, “What difference does it make if I’m gay or not?”
But you’d also have to fault pretty much every professional athlete, since I don’t think I’ve ever heard a player in any sport say “I’d totally be okay with a gay teammate”.
I don’t even think you can make that argument. this, to me, was like Tom Brady holding a press conference and saying “look, I’m sick of the rumors. I’m not %^$%^ing Giselle,” or something like that. He doesn’t need to add “but I have nothing against Brazilians. Brazilians are terrific. If you’re Brazilian, thank God you exist.”
that’s the point, though. tom brady NEVER has to hold a press conference about whether he’s bunching giselle. mike could have just let the issue go, but he decided to say something. that’s where this argument comes from.
i’m not agreeing with lukas here. but he has a point.
or…maybe Piazza took offense to the suggestions that he was gay, and he wanted to dispell that myth. I know I would as well.
And guess what? There is nothing wrong with that either.
Nope. It’s Mike’s decision and Mike’s right to say something about it. He didn’t want to let the issue go because it bothered him, and it’s totally his decision to make — just as Brady would be free to call such a conference in the hypothetical case that he was bothered by the rumors. Mike doesn’t HAVE to be comfortable with the rumors just because Paul Lukas’ politics say that they shouldn’t bother him.
From what I remember, they were literally getting mobbed with requests for comments and interviews. In NY, you don’t ignore that. The only logical way to address it is to talk to the press about it.
Im gay and the premise of this article is nothing short of moronic. Obviously this bozo has no clue how the tabloids operate.
Amen. This is all about stupidity of this author’s pice, not gay rights, or politics, or whatnot.
*piece
when page 2 and the mets come into contact, you get this type of steaming pile of crap.
I hope this becomes the next Fire Joe Morgan article
Is this guy really a Mets fan? What a joke.
On a side note, I used to have that poster of Mike Piazza hanging in my bedroom.
“So what is one of my fans is gay”?
Remember, this is a guy who writes about JERSEYS IN SPORTS. Clearly, his knowledge of sports is iffy. And to say his best offensive years were in LA… clearly he missed 1998 – 2002.
And his most notable postseason was 2000 with the mets.
ahhh that might explain why he is pissed that piazza didnt make a social statement when he declared he wasnt gay. . .
what does that have to do with anything? his uni watch columns are pretty good.
(column about clothes + complaining about gay presser = ?????)
I like the uniwatch columns and don’t much care what the heck he does or supports in his other time. But, I think he’s completely out of line, here.
They should stick Lukas and Benigno in a space shuttle with half a tank of fuel and shoot them into space.
I’d add Francessa and Wallace Matthews to that party.
I invite everyone to email that tool Paul Lukas and tell him what a loser he is.
uniwatch at earthlink dot net
I hate seeing those words on top of this blog.. I wish you didn’t even post this.
What’s up with metsblog today?? The ny papers are filled with stories about Willie and the Mets.. and you guys are posting you tube clips.. and talking about a comedic story about Piazza that not a soul takes seriously?
How could you guys not even talk about the NY post article that reads as if Willie will be fired first thing Monday morning?
I mean the whole Willie thing has been beaten to death. IF he gets fired, he gets fired. Until then, its a non story. We all know Willie is on the hot seat and what now. Its just the same boring repetitive stuff over and over, just like it was during the early days of the Santana trade talks. I’d rather have something else to read about.
There’s nothing new in those stories that hasn’t been printed yesterday.
it’s because everything that is in the paper today, was talked about here YESTERDAY.
That is the beauty of Matt’s work.
OK, the Daily News does say today that Jeff and Fred will be making the decision on whether or not to fire Willie. It’s out of Omar’s hands. Apparently the decision has not been made yet.
So this is news to me. What this says to me is that they don’t trust Omar anymore either.
The report of them not returning Willie’s calls and havimg Omar relay the message that they want to meet with him SUNDAY NIGHT after the team plane lands and prior to Monday (the first game of the homestand) seems like something that sould be posted here.
This guy is not a Mets fan. He couldn’t slide, he didn’t say “Not that there is anything wrong with it.” Give me a break. Why didn’t he include, he didn’t like when he dyed his hair or he hit too many horeruns to centerfield where fans couldn’t get the balls. Piazza is the greatest hitting Met ever. He is an icon. I was there on Sept 21st for that HR. It was the most thrilling baseball moment of my life. Who cared if Mike broke the catcher’s record for most HRs – evry true Met fan. Mike should have his number retired and certainly go in as a Met in the HOF. I still have a Piazza bobblehead sitting in my Dining Room.
Well said. You’re the man.
Please, do us a favor and email that tool. I did, and I feel better already.
It’s pretty clear that Lukas is gay… not that there’s anything with that :-)
Hey krumbledkookie, you sound pretty homophobic despite your last-minute attempt not to…”It’s pretty clear that Lukas is gay… not that there’s anything with that”–can anyone say “Freudian slip”?
and your obviously heterophobic.
or lack a sense of humor.
Or just have never seen Seinfeld.
ANd, personnally, I take far more offense to that third item.
Seinfeld isn’t hip enough to go with his clothes, musical tastes, politics, breakfast, and other things he chooses solely to be stylish.
I’m confused–who’s the “him” here?
Sorry, I should have been more detailed–
toomanyuniforms: whose “clothes, musical tastes, politics, breakfast, and other things he chooses solely to be stylish” are you talking about? It seems you’re talking about me, but I guess it must be Lukas because you don’t know anything about me with regard to some of those things.
Danny1986: a person doesn’t have to be gay to stand up for gay rights, & that’s what the previous poster implied. Sorry you missed that–I guess you must’ve been reading the post too quickly. (And Seinfeld truly was a great show, but it hasn’t aged all that well.)
Paul -
How do you honestly call yourself a Mets fan? Go to MetsBlog.com and read the comments on this particular subject over the past few days, and NOT ONE of the hundreds of comments posted comes close to your mindboggling thoughts on Piazza. And believe me, there is plenty of general negativity among Mets fans this week. In fact, Piazza’s Retirement is the only subject that revealed an overall postiive sentiment on the blog.
You should be ashamed of yourself for writing this piece. The shame is that the rest of the nation may actually assume you represent a contingent of Mets fans. Hopefully this does not have any influence on the decision to enshrine Mike into the HOF as a Met, nor the decision to retire his #31 at Shea. You represent no one but yourself, and you owe an apology to all real Mets fans, and to Piazza himself.
This piece is a perfect example of the irrelevent crap that ESPN produces each day. This is not writing, this is just lazy tabloid sensationalism at it’s best. Congrats, you got a reaction. What really did you prove other than the fact that you are a horses ass?
regards,
DM
Awesome.
haha, nice!
You know, metsblog staff, you are not obligated to post a link to every piece of Mets-related drivel on the internet.
I’m sure ESPN appreciates it, but your readers don’t. Maybe you can post a reminder about ESPN Classic “Tribute” to Piazza today featuring nothing but Roger Clemens.
just heard a rumor that Piazza and Paul Lukas hooked up in 2002
another dumb ass.
What Lukas aims for (and delivers) is a humorous story on Piazza. Have we Mets fans lost our sense of humor with our team in the crapper? Ease up and enjoy life a bit.
Maybe we just don’t think it’s that funny.
Seconded Enthusiastically!! Get a sense of humor, Mets fans–you’re starting to sound like a Bronx chorus.
In my 33+ years as a Met Fan I remember some acquisitions more than others, Santana, Hernandez, Carter, but I will always remember the sheer joy and giddiness i shared with my sons when the Piazza deal was announced. The feeling was so intoxicating, to know that “my” Mets went out and got Piazza was overwhelming. You knew the orginazation was serious about bringing winning back to Shea. Mike will always be a hero here and is that rare combo of gifted athlete and grounded human being. I wish him well wherever he goes and hope that NY always is as dear to him as he is to us.
thank you for writing that. It is far more appropriate and fitting than us giving any attention to Paul Lukas.
I reserve my Mets-related “joy and gidiness” to World Series victories, of which Piazza brought us none. I, too, was hopeful when the Mets acquired Piazza (as I was Sanatana). But I am reserving judgement on Sanatana’s “iconic” status (like retiring his number, e.g) for after he brings us a championship.
That said, I don’t agree either with any of the arguments in the article. I mean, I wish Piazza well and all, but just because I agree his number shouldn’t be enshrined with Seaver and Hodges doesn’t mean I think he didn’t carry out his obligations as a Met. He gave us his best shot, just wasn’t good enough for me.
Eddiekrules,
I still have more joy over Mex and the Kid’s acquisitions….they took us from the dark ages into the glory years and a World Championship.
Can someone please change the title of this post if this nonsense is going to stay on the site. “Good riddance Piazza?” Come on????
I suggest this entire post be removed, but at least change the title.
i second that.
Matt, just change it. Do you really want your blog associated with that headline?
Re “gasface”: are you the guy on that Ween album cover with the gas-mask bong on his face? Just curious.
I like Paul Lukas, and I read his uniwatchblog almost everyday…but that really was one of the dumbest opinion columns i have ever read. i think he’s just holding a grudge because Piazza never wore stirrups with his uniform.
Hee hee
how is mike piazza not athletic? he couldnt throw, thats it, i think ive seen one past ball from him in his tenure here.. i guess that doesnt show up in stats…
Well, a growing tree branch could beat him down to first base, too, but. . . .
Regardless of this silly article, mikes best days were with the dodgers, maybe not his most memorable, but his prime was in LA. I realize they changed the HOF rules on what team you go in with (is it based on tenure now?), but if he went in as a dodger I wouldn’t blame him, I still have great memories of mikey p’s homer against the braves after 9/11, was at the game, what a great night. He did a lot of great things for our organization and I wish him the best.
I am now on record as saying I have had enough of willie, sorry , to mention this here, but aftyer 3 years of support I think its time. What manager doesn’t ever get thrown out of games? It can galvanize your players, it can get the fans back into a game, it can protect your guys from getting thrown out and he NEVER does it. Joe torre is who he is, (he had a great group of vets, he dealt with the media, and got out of the way – this is not the same situation in queens) sometimes you have to vocalize every now and then for your team, see pat riley (yes basketball, but he admitted to getting thrown out to get his guys motivated), bobby cox, lou pinnela and girardi last night. Willie did not even argue when in Chicago the umps blew a call (lee touched a ball in foul territory before the bag), he should have been out – willies excuse for not arguing “I didn’t think they saw it.” Beyonnd stunning!
More importantly the mets baserunning is atrocious, fundies are based on coaching, while the players take blame, the manger deserves more. Sorry willie but its time. A dejected optimist.
If you read his statement, Piazza made it clear to the HOF what hat he wants on his plaque. He may have had better offensive years with LA, but he will always be remembered as a Met because of the numerous memorable moments he provided.
…and it’s because of reactions like are being written here that Lukas wishes that Piazza had said something. The issue of course is that maybe Piazza, due to his religious beliefs, couldn’t have said something, because maybe he doesn’t think homosexuality is okay. Lukas doesn’t think about the fact that maybe Piazza DID take the high road here by not saying anything.
I’m not dissing Piazza’s beliefs here – I actually applaud him for not shoving them down everyone’s throat. If, indeed, they are his beliefs. Because we don’t know, and that’s actually okay.
I don’t agree with Lukas that Piazza should have done this, but the statements that “OMG IF SOMEONE THINKS TEH GAYZ ARE OK THEY HAVE TO BE GAY OMFG” are just ridiculously childish. Straight boys. Get over it. Not every gay guy is going to make a pass at you. Calm down. Can’t mention the word “gay” anywhere without a legion of uptight straight white dudes freaking the f out. Let’s be sure to mention as many instances of heterosexual sex at the same time.
I need to remember to come here and NOT read the comments.
This story is also, like, two days old. Not sure we really needed it here. But then Matt has to deal with the three thousand people emailing him about NOT putting it up. It’s a lose/lose situation.
Honestly, I don’t see any such comments, but I guess if you have a political axe to grind, you’ll make do with what you have, no?
Im a straight white male who happened to live with 2 different homosexuals in college and now work in a small office in which approximately half of the males are gay, so I have absolutely no problem with the lifestyle choice. I support gay marriage and equal rights and all that. That said, I also agree with pretty much every person on this comment board that Piazza has absolutely NO obligation to say anything more than he said, no matter what his stance on the issue really is.
Cool rant, “grrl.” But “religious beliefs” are no more of an excuse for gay-bashing than they were for slavery in the pre-civil war US.
i find it so ammusing that you say you speak for fairness, but most of your posts on this thread speak more to YOUR intolerance than anything.
You’re a hypocrite.
Actually, I’m not a “hypocrite,” I’m a “hypochondriac.”
(No, wait–actually I’m not a “hypochondriac,” I’m a “hypodermic needle.”
[Oh, no--wait--I'm not a "hypodermic needle," I'm a "hypo-allergenic dish detergent."
...])
(Danny–Hope you find this ammusing, too. Glad you’re a fan of my posts–anything remembered is a hit!)
You’re really in over your depth, here. Might want to consider taking up these issues outside of the context of a BASEBALL BLOG. Suffice it to say, there are strong counterarguments.
I mean “out of your depth” or “in over your head.” One of those. . . .
i don’t even know why this is an issue on metsblog right now. but – wow. metsgrrl, chill out. i’m not sure who you are representing, but what are you talking about?
“Straight boys. Get over it. Not every gay guy is going to make a pass at you. Calm down. Can’t mention the word “gay” anywhere without a legion of uptight straight white dudes freaking the f out. ”
this is the dumbest post i’ve ever read on this site.
matt? why does this thread even exist here?
Metgrrl,
Wow. i actually thought the reaction here was fairly even keeled and lacked much immature silliness that you seem to latch onto.
It was ridiculous that Mike had to give that presser and there is no reason he needed to take up a cause that he might not have agreed with. Certainly has no place in HOF considerations.
And, I say this as a straight guy who has supports gay marriage (though not by judicial fiat).
Why even give Lukas the free promotion…..the guy is a jackass.
I’ll miss Mike. He was my favorite player as a kid and growing up, I’ve never seen a baseball season before this one with him not a part of it.
My God, you are young!
Love the reaction here. And yet, if Lukas had written an article criticizing Willie Randolph, every single commenter here would have broken their arms patting him on the back.
Lukas raised some vaild points about Piazza; he was selfish in his reaction to the proposed move to first base, and called one of the most ridiculous press conferences in the history of sport.
That said, I’m a fan. On the field, he was excellent, he brought the team back to relevance after the Worst Team Money Could Buy era, and expressed genuine appreciation for the Mets fanbase.
Apparently you don’t read Metsblog often.
Yeah I do; you and I have had comment discussions about Heilman’s traditional difficulties in the first half.
But yeah, I know that actually having a contrary opinion in here is akin to bashing my head against the wall.
Oh, sorry if I don’t remember that particular discussions\. I get into many with various posters that I often can’t remember the particular names (or even the discussions sometimes).
What I was getting at is that there are quite a few fans here who have been supportive of Willie, for various reasons, and I am one of them.
Did we agree about Heilman? I don’t agree with your negative assessment of Piazza by the way, but that’s OK. You’re entitled to your opinion.
I’ll agree with you that Piazza was selfish about the move to first base, but so what. It was universally recognized that Alex Rodriguez was a better shortstop than Derek Jeter, yet nobody criticized Jeter for being selfish for not wanting to move away from short when they got ARod (well, except us and Red Sox fans)
Selfish about moving to first? Because he knew it was a position he could not play? Because the manager didn’t at least have a conversation with him first before making the move public?
Yeah, Okay…
I love it when people write ‘that said,’ followed by more sentences no one cares about.
retire #31
apparently, paul lukas hasn’t read metsblog and doesn’t realize what he just did to himself. lukas’ name will be dragged through the mud for the rest of him career. he’s a hack.
Not very “Zen” of you. Guess you’re the ironic sort.
i’m not going to do the dragging, but it’s true. neyer who is a much more respected reporter has been destroyed for making one comment about reyes.
lukas is a hack though. his article was hardly journalist. it was like a fan blog.
I thought it was a blog entry…
Not whatever forget about Lukas he’s a punk, not only does Piazza deserve to go into the Hall as a Met he deserves to have his jersey forever enshrined in the outfield at new Citi Field. Piazza did so much for this organization not only shoul dhe be allowed into the Hall as a Met retiring his number would be the least they could do. He made this team notworthy again and gave them crediablitly almost single handley. Kudos to Mike Piazza for a great career and for being a true professional as well.
I assume it was a typo but I agree with the way you put it…”he made this team not worthy…” yep, that about sums it up. What is the “so much” he did for “this organization?”
Your writing style makes me so eager to head on over to the blog you advertise, it’s definitely on the bottom of my list.
Yes you would be correct in assuming it was a typo *noteworthy there you happy with that? now what did he do for this organization ok where do we start
1. As a Met he hit 220 hr’s 2nd only to Darryl Strawberry
2. 6th all time in hits as a Met and had a career avg of .296 as a Met
3.655 RBI’s again 2nd only to Darryl Strawberry
4.he became the face of a franchise that had no face that had nothing
he helped this team become a winner again including helping them get to the world series in 2000
but yeah your right he did nothing for the franchise
way to go genius
Wow, good post genius. Lot’s of reseach you did there to come up with all the second place and sixth place things that Piazza did. With all those second places and sixth places it sounds like you glorify the also-ran that is Mike Piazza. What, no ring? No trophy? Well, let’s be like my six-year-old son’s soccer coach who gives trophies to anyone that shows up and give Piazza the highest possible honor – RETIRING HIS NUMBER – for “trying real hard” and coming in second place. Oh yeah, and he hit a home run in some meaningless (from a baseball point of view) game vs the Braves in Sept 2001, and got Roger Clemens upset at him a few times. I’m not advocating we retire Daryl’s number either but based on your logic he certainly should be considered well before Piazza. At least Daryl won us something.
Ok so you want a first place stat how about we’ll go with number one all time in home runs amongst catchers. Thats pretty cut and dry for ya.
The difference between Piazza and Strawberry Piazza’s name was never in the paper for trouble with the law, Piazza was a true professional.
-Why the arguement for retiring his number heres what I’ll give you I’m not going to change your mind but this is what I’ll tell ya.
1. The stats in the 8 years that he was here Piazza is among the top of all catagories in hitting.
2. During his era with the Mets he was clearly the best player and the face of the franchise, the leader, and backed it with his play.
3. He brought the franchise back from the dead put fans back in the stands and gave people hope again.
Yes its unfortunate that he did not win a world series for us because we all would have loved to see it. Retiring his number is the highest possible honor I would agree with you on that the difference however between that and the Hall of Fame is the Hall of Fame is what you get into for statistical performance.
You retire his number not only for his performance on the field because what he meant to the team. He brought hope to a team that had none at the time, he put a team on his back and gave the Mets notority in a town that was Yankee obsessed.
The homerun while meaningless maybe in terms of a baseball point of view wasn’t so to the city, the fans of the mets or even fans of baseball. And it sure was quite symbolic the man that brought so much hope to a dead franchise hit that in a city that needed something to cheer about.
To retire the number is clearly not a statistical but also what that player meant during that era. Which is why Jackie Robinson is retired throughout baseball. Because he meant so much to baseball to be the first one to break the color barrier.
dont get me wrong Mike is in no way Jackie Robinson it is just the easiest analogy to show that to retire someones number is not just soley based on stats but also on what they meant to that team.
and as for your no ring no trophy he did help us win our first pennant in how long? havent won one since he’s left either….
31 should be retired, but 17 should be first. Good luck getting any of them retired as Wilpon keeps searching for more Dodgers and NY (baseball) Giants to honor at Citi Field.
I would agree with that 100%
Apparently Lucas missed Mike’s comment that meeting Rush Limbaugh was like meeting Abe Lincoln or George Washington.
Do you suppose someone who would say such a thing could sincerely say “So what if I were gay…?” Mike chose wisely to say nothing at all…Politics aside, I enjoyed watching him play baseball.
You’ve just made me think worse of Piazza, MH.
Oh, he’s a total neanderthal. More conservative than even most conservatives. Thinks women should stay home and have babies. I still liked him, though. And, it must be said, not many men have looked better in those white pants.
Tina,
As a liberal, you should be more open minded about others’ opinions. I am a conservative with a corporate lawyer liberal democrat live-in g/f, am pro-gay marriage (as long as it is accomplished democratically, not by judicial fiat), pro-pot leaglization, and loathe the Bible-thumper types.
If I focused on the politics of baseball players, I’d have to give up following the sport.
What I mean to say is, there aren’t too many players whose politics align with my own insofar as they are known to me.
Me too. Guess I’d forgotten about that Limbaugh thing. At least MP hasn’t gotten as bad as Schilling did (is?).
I like Mike, but he made a complete fool of himself with that press conference. My non-Mets-fan friends still mock it sometimes, when they happen to think of it.
And yes, Piazza is culpable. He didn’t have to embrace homosexuality. But if someone is saying you’re — I don’t know, a guy who’s into country and not rock, while you know yourself to be a rock fan, do you call a freaking news conference about it? No, you don’t. If you call the news conference, you’re implicitly saying this is a slur that you need to refute. You could call the news conference and make your point, but still show yourself not to be a bigot by adding that there wouldn’t be anything wrong with it if you were. You don’t add that, you’re accepting and reinforcing that it’s a slur. Period.
(I realize my metaphor here is weak, as plenty of people would see an accusation of being a country fan as a slur, but it was the best I could do off the top of my head. ;) )
Tina: I am a country fan (old-timey country–Hank Williams, etc.), & I agree with your point enthusiastically. Fairmindedness should guide behaviours of that sort, otherwise evil wins.
Boy, am I getting melodramatic, or what??
No, you’re implicitly saying that you don’t want to be hounded by the topic, and that you’re uncomfortable with it . . . which is saying something similar, but without the accusatory tone. We do not all need to spout some sort of limp undergraduate speech code canon whenever given the opportunity.
He didn’t need to put himself into the debate at all. He “called a press conference to announce that he’s straight!” as one of my friends puts it. And made himself look really silly. Afraid of the big bad homo boogeyman.
He was being deluged with interview requests and bothered by tabloids. That’s hardly making an issue where there wasn’t one. And, I’m sure there were a lot of people in Lukas’ camp out there who hoped they finally had a gay star athlete so that they could bring the issue to the fore. They’re as guilty as any for putting pressure on the guy.
Tina,
Do you actually rmember that time? He HAD to say something…it was a daily distraction of epic proportions. He didn’t say, “I’m not gay and I don’t like gay people.” He simply said the rumors were false.
I might add, he also said ….from CNNsi contemporanneous report:
“I can’t control what people think. I date women,” Piazza said.
He also agrees with Mets manager Bobby Valentine that players can accept an openly gay teammate.
“In this day and age, it’s irrelevant,” he said. “I don’t think it would be a problem at all.”
I do remember. It wasn’t even an actual news conference, he just sort of ambled over to the group of reporters. My point is, it was something he felt to be an accusation, something he thought he needed to refute. And that’s telling. It just is.
Toomanyuniforms: ‘limp’ undergraduate speech code canon,” huh? You’re a card. Or maybe a cad, I’m not sure.
Piazza, intentionally or not, allowed people to “accuse” him of being gay without pointing out that the act of making such “accusations” is in itself a form of gay-bashing.
(The problem: by playing in a baseball league that prides itself strongly on impressing its fans with the dire importance of the virtue of “fair play,” each player takes on a kind of moral responsibility to speak out against unfairness whenever confronted with it. And discriminating against people because of their innate sexual orientation is without doubt a violation of any and all notions of “fair play.” [Almost nobody on here likes it, but Lukas, however he appraises Piazza's performance on the field, is correct about the "responsibility" thing].)
“If you call the news conference, you’re implicitly saying this is a slur that you need to refute. You could call the news conference and make your point, but still show yourself not to be a bigot by adding that there wouldn’t be anything wrong with it if you were. You don’t add that, you’re accepting and reinforcing that it’s a slur. Period.”
I agree but the guy probably is a bigot. He’s a huge Rush Limbaugh fan. What does that imply about his attitude toward gay people? I doubt that Mike is as hate-filled Limbaugh–he’s not on radio spewing crap—he’s also a much easier going human being—but he was uncomfortable enough to call a press conference and did not take the opportunity to say anything further than to refute what was said concerning himself…That was likely a very conscious and honest choice.
As I’ve said, I hold my nose when it comes to the politics of most (white American?) baseball players.
Sorry, but Limbaugh does not equal bigot. I’m sorry, it just doesn’t. I don’t care for the guy’s style, but if you paint him and all of his listeners with the same broad brush, you’re just being lazy and needlessly inflammatory.
By bigotry, I meant specifically the homo-hating.
he can slide. anybody can slide. i bet he doesn’t so much sliding now. He used to slide. I think this writer cannot or will not slide or has a fear of sliding.
My first thought about Piaza in the hall was that I hoped he got in as a Met. There aren’t too many Mets in there; however, the first thing that really comes to mind when you say Mike Piazza is LA Dogder. He had his best years by far for them and although changed the franchise (I remember how I felt when they got him. It might have been the happiest day of my life!!!), he is really just a rent a Met.
Didn’t Piazza enter a HR derby and not hit a single one? So how exactly is he HOF material?
What a D____Head.
Piazza on Limbaugh:
“It was like meeting American royalty.” He then compared it to meeting “George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, General Douglas MacArthur, and the Pope.”…”great honor.”..to shake his hand…get his autograph.
All I’m saying is, in light of that comment, you can hardly expect him to say “So what if I were gay?”
Nope, you wouldn’t. Anyway, in pluralistic America, you enjoy watching Piazza, who disagrees with you (and me, though to a lesser extent, I’m sure), I listen to bands who might vomit if they knew my views, and we all get along . . . we hope.
GUYS:
From a CNNsi article during the whole episode:
[Piazza] also agrees with Mets manager Bobby Valentine that players can accept an openly gay teammate.
“IN THIS DAY AND AGE, IT’S IRRELEVANT,” he said. “I don’t think it would be a problem at all.”
[emphases added]
My God, can you lose the agenda for two seconds and recall the facts!?
My posts concerning Piazza’s remarks about Limbaugh were made by way of explaining why one should not expect him to say “So what if I were gay.” That was my agenda. However, thanks for the reminder concerning Valentine’s remarks. It means Mike’s not a complete “ditto head”— Rush’s term for his fans not mine — as I am sure Rush would not agree with Bobby V or Mike on that one. Ball players are role models and we wouldn’t want young boys idolizing….and so on….you know that’s Rush’s view….daily showers with teammates…Truth is, I doubt that major league players would have no “problem” with it. Has Bobby V ever actually had to deal with it? Gay athletes are usually terrified of anyone ever knowing…