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According to the New York Post, Willie Randolph and Omar Minaya are meeting with Fred and Jeff Wilpon at 2 pm.
…in other words, right now…good luck, boys…
…Update…3:10 pm…
…from what i can gather, one of the main goals of this meeting is for fred and jeff to listen to willie, not fire him, and get a sense of what may be wrong in the locker room and on the field, while also hearing from omar on how certain situations can or cannot be fixed…
…in other words, it sounds like a meeting of the minds, talking constructively and honestly about what’s up with the Mets, so that a plan can be put in place to try and make things right – with or without willie, omar or other players on the roster…
…Update…3:45 pm…
…if i’m correct about the above, and i think i am, i like this approach…fact is, as much as we do not like to hear it, there is a lot of baseball yet to be played…and, it probably makes far better sense to hear people out, collect information, analyze it and then create a plan for moving forward with the best possible personnel, whomever that may be…
…as i have said before, i like willie’s old-school, hard-nosed style…the problem is that he does not have players who fit that mold…so, either he needs some new players, or the current players need a different leader – or, some constructive combination of the two…either way, though, the status quo is not working, and today seems to be a nice step in figuring out how best to move forward…
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Lets pray Backman is cruising up the turnpike now. So long South Georgia Peanuts!
i think it is time to clean house
randolph, peterson and ho jo should be fired
the team needs a good kick in the ass
Firing Peterson would be the absolute dumbest most unproductive thing the Mets could possibly do. He is by far the best pitching coach in the game, and he has done so much more good for this team than bad.
But of course, firing him might help, come to think of it. Yea, remember how much firing Rick Down helped us last year. I’m glad we did that.
what has peterson done for this team
kazmir gone
parez is a nightmare half the time out
heilman no comment
leaving pitchers in to long
so what has peterson done
nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CLEAN HOUSE
Is this Rick Peterson’s Wife or Son who wrote this??? Pres. Bush also has a 100% approval rating from the Bush Twins
ahh, some people never learn. And no, i’m not Rick Peterson’s son. Nice argument though.
…ya know what, I don’t really have the energy or the will to explain how well he’s done with guys like Maine, Feliciano, and yes, Perez who had ERAs of 5.85, 6.55 and 6.63 before joining the Mets. Then Ollie came to New York and pitched a great Game 7 of the NLCS for us, and had a 3.56 ERA for us last year. He has struggled so far in his 10 starts this year, but your going to now call him a Peterson failure because of his first 10 starts in ‘08? Logical thinking.
And also, we’re blaming Peterson for the Kazmir trade? And we should fire him now for that? Again, smart and logical thinking.
Finally, Heilman has been nothing short of a disaster this year, but in the last three years he has put up ERAs of 3.17, 3.62 and 3.03. But, again, lets just forget about the big sample size of his pervious 208 appearances and just judge him and Peterson by his last 23.
Please respond.
Guess what? If we hadn’t had Peterson, we wouldn’t have had two pitchers with 15-10 records in ‘07–one would have replicated his 3-13 from the year before, and the other would have been 7-9, maybe 8-8, at best.
Yes, Perez is one of the most maddenigly enigmatic pitchers in the game. He’s “consistently inconsistent.” And John Maine, while really good, can improve. But, the improvements that they both made from ‘06 to ‘07 were spectacular. They wouldn’t have done those where they were at the time of being traded (Pittsburgh and Baltimore).
As for Kazmir, Bannister, and Bell, I’ve got one bit of advice for you–let it go. Stop living in the past. What is done is done. We now have the best pitcher in the game, arguably, if the defense behind him wouldn’t be so boneheaded.
And as for “leaving pitchers in too long,” that’s the manager’s final call, not the pitching coach’s. If you want to go after somoeone for that, look to number 12, not number 51.
I’ve had the argument about Kazmir with an accountant I work with. It doesn’t matter if Peterson recommended trading him, due to his pitching style which would lend itself to arm/shoulder injuries (he was right about that–how many times has Kaz been on the DL since he was traded?)–Jim Duquette is the one who had the final say. And he went ahead and traded him. He alone bears the responsibility for that.
Hey,
First time posting –
I think we should clean house! I love HOJO but c’mon man whats up with that! I think Bobby V needs to come back – we need someone who can fire up the team and make a scene when need be! The Mets have had two coaches who clap their hands and say something similar to “We battled” or “We Played Hard”. I play hard when I play video games – doesnt mean I am a champion –
FIRE WILLIE!
Backman, who quit his only job working for an Independent League team, is not an option.
Matt,
Wally was fired by the league – he never quit. It was a PR stunt for the league (the same league behind Eliot Spitzer Night).
Wally’s batting coach took over the team and rehired Wally as the bench coach. Wally never wanted to leave and he was set to come back as the bench coach.
Obviously, the PR stunt was about to backfire on the league so they rehired Wally as the manager.
Wait for episode 8. It’s all in Episode 8 of Playing for Peanuts. I don’t like giving storylines away, but you continue to claim Wally quit. It’s not factually correct. You can contact me if you have any questions.
John Fitzgerald
Playing for Peanuts
good show.
REALLY REALLY REALLY bad theme music.
Hey Danny,
Thanks – glad you like the show. The theme music is supposed to be cheesy and funny, like a bad 80s sitcom. Some people love the intro, some hate it, but at least you’ve got an opinion. Thanks for watching.
John
if bad 80’s sitcom was what you were going for…you certainly succeeded.
good job, though. well produced and an entertaining show.
There is nothing funnier than a bad 80s sitcom parody and this show never takes itself too seriously – aside from the drug suspensions, Wally’s firing, a bench clearing brawl, ejections and the local media and the league using Wally as a way to sell more papers/tickets.
Backing a guy, who you have no idea as to where he is. Brilliant call.
Wally Backman? Please there are about a million guys, including some of us posters who could do a better job. Too much baggage, dude. The NY press would eat him alive at the first sign of trouble. What Willie is getting is nothing compared to what Backman would get.
Fly, meet wall.
WTF does that mean?
either i thank willie for his years of service and for trying, or ask: what the **** are you still doing here?
I get the feeling nothing huge is going to come from this meeting. At least not from a fans perspective.
i feel the same, i think this is more about Willie’s comments about race and SNY
I think it’s more of a review at this point — to see what can be done right now to fix the team — than either a firing or an apology for the interview.
I think most of the time will be spent dissecting the team and what are its weaknesses. Not dissecting Willie.
Yes and yes, he will get the rest of the wk to show some improvement or forward progress before heading out west.
Why the wish of luck? It’s a matter of when not if w/ Willie getting fired. Might as well get on with it. Is it gonna take being 10-12 games under .500 or 10-12 games back in the standings for it to happen? When something’s not working, the manager is the 1st thing you try to change in order to turn things around. It’s worth a shot. The players aren’t going anywhere.
You’re3 right, Logan, they’re not going anywhere–As of a day or so ago, only two of them were hitting in MLB’s top 50, and those two were Church (somewhere around 15th, at .311) & Wright (in the 50th spot, tied for the final ranking position with a few others.)
Give Willie a bat before you condemn him.
Or the better question:
Why didn’t this meeting occur last October?
Amen
They did have a meeting last October, the result of which was announcing Randolph was coming back.
That meeting was not specifically about addressing the team difficiencies or a plan to improve. It was about PR and reacting to something they had no idea how to react to. It’s was an attempt at increasing morale and confidence in the org as it currently stood. Not about changing the org.
Huge difference to what is occuring today.
Danny, c’mon. You don’t know exactly what happened in that meeting anymore than we do. But it does appear it was an honest assessment of Willie’s ability to do the job and an assessment of the team talent was probably part of it.
Hey FAH. Way to spend a Monday off, eh? ON Metsblog, just like anyother workday.
Minaya, talking to reporters this afternoon (October 7, 2007)…
“After thinking about this, I have decided that Willie should continue to manage our club. It was a decision I made as a General Manager, it’s my decision to make, and I felt that, it’s just the way we lost, the way it was, I just had to think about those things…It’s my decision. I told ownership that this is what I’m doing, and they are in support of my decision.”
So, again…..WHAT MEETING?
Danny, isn’t your argument/rip kinda moot on FAH’s behalf since you’ve actually counter-argued him? For all you know, he could be lakeside with a laptop by his side (like me, for example).
Hey, it’s better than the hot dogs on the grill right now.
The meeting they had that led up to Omar’s decision. It was reported the Wilpons told Omar that if he decided to keep Willie, then their fates would be intertwined. So they let Omar decide. And that’s the decision he made.
After such a collapse, you don’t think they met numerous times to dissect the season? Of course they did. The Wilpons may sometimes make poor business decisions regarding the team, but they are nevertheless successful businessmen. Meetings are a part of every successful organization.
Also, as Willie said this week, they have quarterly meetings to assess the state of the team and things that can be done to fix it.
Speaking specifically to any meeting that may or may not have occured the week directly following the collpase culminating with the ‘Willie is staying” announcement….no….I don’t think NUMEROUS meetings occured. Especially not with BOTH Willie and Omar in the room. And, unlike today’s meeting, there was no Willie/Omar sitdown with the WIlpons to discuss what is wrong with the team and how to right the ship. It did not happen. It was just put in OMar’s hands.
But in regards to quarterly meetings and such. So great. They aren’t ignorant, lazy, indifferent, or clueless. Just incompetant.
I feel much better now. ;)
Well, Danny, we will have to agree to disagree :smile:
I believe such meetings took place last year after the collapse. With and without Willie.
Whether they are ignorant or not is another matter. But to say that no meetings took place, when you don’t even know for sure … well then that’s ignorant too!
Again…my point. A meeting with both Willie and Omar like the one today did not occur last October.
I say this b/c I go off of what has been reported. At a time where the Wilpons owed mets fans an explanation and a path to recovery, there was no report that they were sitting down with both Omar AND WILLIE after the collapse and discuss what they are discussing today. But today, we are told the second Willie passes a Wilpon in the hallway.
I am going off of what is reported. That is less ignorant than going off what ever you are using to back up your points.
Again … my point is that just because it wasn’t reported doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
They rarely report on their meetings. So it’s illogical to say that we would have had to have heard about it if it had occurred.
It’s ignorant to say that it did or didn’t occur. Because none of us know.
I do believe it did occur. A post-mortem so to speak.
you realize you just called yourself ignorant?
you’re right, we aren’t getting anywhere. agree to disagree.
No. I didn’t.
You are saying a meeting with these exact 4 participants didn’t occur after the collapse. I never said it did. I said I believe it did, but I don’t know for a fact.
But I do know meetings of a similar nature occurred after the collapse. Meetings where the season was dissected. It could have been just Jeff, Fred and Omar. Or Jeff, Omar and Bernazard. I don’t know. It would have been pure incompetency on the part of the Wilpons not to have had some sort of post mortem meetings with key participants.
.
we can all blame the players.
we can all balme Willie.
we can all blame Omar.
But it’s the Wilpons that chose to go in this direction last October. It’s their money. It’s their decision. And it’s their fault.
What’s easier?
A) Resurrect a sunken ship with the same captain. Make a few modifications to the shipmates.
B) Build a new ship with a new captain. Make a few modifications to the shipmates.
The Wilpons chosing option A is the reason why we are still talkiing about this today.
That’s great, but we can’t fire the Wilpons.
I agree with everything you said, but unfortunately metsfan119 is right. There’s nothing we can do about the ownership and maybe that’s the problem.
just like you can’t fire Al Davis, the Bidwells, or Wayne Huezenga.
But my point is that this is an overall issue with the organization. It more about those wearing pinstriped suits as opposed to those where pinstriped uniforms. It’s been a revolving door of managers, free agents, and GMs for decades, and the Mets owners have produced only “potential” and brief flashes of greatness. Everything else has been missed expectations and subpar baseball. Along with $8 dollar beers and crappy $5 hot dogs w/o sauerkraut.
We, as fans, can’t do a damn thing about it. So we complain about Omar, Willie, and the players. Because it’s what we see. Rightfully so, but there is more going on.
So are you saying that Willie doesn’t deserve to lose his job? If not, then what, in your opinion, does he have to do to deserve to lose his job?
Willie should have lost his job last October.
Willie absolutely needs to go. But I refuse to believe the long term issue is resolved based on that one move. That, as history proves, amounts to a band-aid.
And that is all I am saying.
I bet that all thats going to happen is after the meeting, Willie is going to publicly apologize to the fans for his comments and thats all.
he already did that
Does anyone seriously give a sht about those comments anymore? Willie could be in the Black Panthers and if the team was winning I could care less.
If he were in the Black Panthers, how would things be different? That would make a cool episode of Arli$$ (if such a thing could be made–some think Arli$$ beyond watching in ANY case)…
Pull the trigger!
Willie has to go. What can he possibly say that could explain why this team is sub 500 since June 1 of last year? We need a change and NOW is the time.
To WR’s credit:
he’s not hitting, & it isn’t his job to swing the bat.
To WR’s discredit:
a manager who does his job well has players that, regardless of anything else, perform solidly, for the most part, in terms of fundamentals.
Or so the myth goes…am I missing anything?
Anything but Willie getting fired and it’s a complete waste of time. What in the hell could possibly make the Wilpons think that despite last season’s collapse, despite being 4 games under .500 since this point last year, that NOW Willie will all of a sudden turn on a switch? Willie went up against a virtual AAA team this past series, knowing his job was on the line, the players knowing his job was on the line, and they played like absolute dogs. You gotta know when to fold them WIlpons, and if you don’t make a change, then fans are going to start doing something much worse than booing, they’re going to start not caring anymore.
Randolph is not going to get fired today, so anyone hoping for that will have to think other thoughts. As for the choices for replacements for Randolph on the poll. they are all terrible.
So what do you suggest be done? You’d keep him or who is worthy of being their manager in your opinion. Oberkfell is terrible to you? My guess is you know nothing about him.
The Mets need change, it doesn’t matter who replaces Willie, the point is we know which direction we’re going with Willie, which is nowhere. The Mets have nothing to lose by making a switch.
Jerry Manuel is terrible? Bobby V is terrible?
Who would you suggest?
People who don’t want to make a switch because there’s not a sexy name out there are completely missing the point.
You can’t make change for the sake of making change. I don’t think Bobby V is going to get up and just leave his job in the middle of the Japanese season. What has Jerry Manuel done in his career? Not much. I don’t suggest anyone right now because no matter who the manager is, this team will still not be very good.
With the way this division is going right now, the Mets are going to be in it for the foreseeable future. The Mets are good enough to keep their heads above water, but but enough that they are totally not going to tank. And that’s the reason why Willie will keep his job at least through the All-Star break.
The Mets need to look at the rest of the season in 20-game sessions. If they go 12-8 in the next 20, they are 35-33. Still mediocre. But if they can go 14-6, then you really have something there. This team has not been healthy all year. Once Church is back in the lineup and Pedro back in the rotation, things will get better. Again, what can Randolph do about a freak concussion and injuries to old pitchers? Nothing. Injuries happen. It’s part of the game.
Why not? Do you honestly think that bringing in Mazz or Jerry Manuel is going to make the Mets play worse than they have over the past year? I just don’t get how much longer this team has to sleepwalk and play like sht before people realize that Willie has to go. Of course it’s not all his fault, just like winning isn’t all because of Willie, but come on, you can’t honestly tell me this guy still deserves to be here.
Thought I don’t remember the details, I’ve seen Mazz corrected on strategy points several times by his broadcast-mate this season on SNY; I’d hate to see him in the dugout where nobody was around to correct him…he’s also too susceptible to the wind: one poster on here wrote one time (that I saw) that Mazz dresses like a “gangster,” & in the games following, his wardrobe changed a bit away from that look (…maybe coincidence, maybe not).
“What has Jerry Manuel done in his career?”
Um,…he took the 2000 Chicago Whitesox to the post season.
Fact check before you make comments
Frank Robinson, as long as there’s a caveat in his contract prohibiting him from over-using starting pitchers.
Evan had a great rant (not really a rant but more of a statement). Basically, the Mets keeping Willie is asking the Met fan to be patient. With increasing ticket prices, poor and inconsistent play, and a sub-500 record in the last year, it is a REALLY hard sell. Doing so would put ownership and Omar on the hot seat and not Willie.
oh dear
maybe this meeting is to discuss possible trades to improve the team, you never know…
Nah. Too logical. Better to feed into the media-created uberfrenzy; that’s the Mets way. After all, we did trade the Franchise for some scrubs because some ancient sportwriter with a Great Depression mentality goaded ancient GM M. Donald Grant to do so.
Did the media choke away the division last season? Did the media give the Mets a below .500 record over the past season? I think the majority of Mets fans are intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions about Willie’s performance.
Man, another one with media paranoia. “c.1970″ and Willie need to do some group therapy for their common issue.
Not only is it illogical to lump M. Donald Grant in with the Wilpons, your re-telling of the Seaver trade is completely inaccurate.
For the record, the Mets refused to extend Seaver’s deal, which has been signed before free agency, and Seaver was torn between wanting more money and wanting to be a Met. Dick Young’s coverage, portraying him as disloyal and money-grubbing, pushed him over the edge to the point that he demanded a trade.
The night before the trade deadline, Seaver and the Mets had a meeting to clear the air. The Mets agreed to talk money after the season and to honor Seaver’s trade request if he still wanted to leave. According to his own account, Seaver went to bed planning on rescinding his demand and staying a Met.
But the next morning, Young wrote another column which slammed Seaver’s wife. Without ever citing a source, he accused Nancy Seaver (many/most believe falsely) of being money-hungry and throwing a tantrum until her husband agreed to make his original demand. Convinced the club was responsible for leaking the false report, Seaver called the front office screaming and cursing and demanding a trade right then and there. The Mets honored his request, even though they got almost nothing back in return.
Grant was a miserable human being, by most accounts, but if anyone bullied him into trading Seaver, it was Seaver himself.
Why would they all need to meet to do that? That’s something that should be done behind the scenes and orchestrated by Omar.
but either way I still don’t see any reasonably trades they could make that improve the team.
DB: trade Willie, Castillo, Delgado, Heilman, Wagner & Alou to the Cubs for Piniella & Fukudome. Have Santana close on days when he’s not pitching, & do CG’s when he is.
The Mets are missing an incredible opportunity to bond with the fans here.
They should be streaming live video of the meeting over Metsblog. And letting posters send questions in.
Now that would be a sell out!
lol
the commenters on this site would love that…they already think they’re running the team.
Omar needs to show some accountability – I am sick of seeing him deflecting the media to Willie saying he “Supports Willie” – Omar hold yourself accountable for once. YOU put this team together, it is YOUR responsibility to take the heat as well. When i say team i mean players and coaches alike.
Accountability – Omar has NONE.
The way I look at Omar is this:
What is my expectation with this team? If I see the roster and expect at least the playoffs, Omar has nothing to apologize for but for Willie still being manger. On the other hand, if I look at the roster and think, gee…where am I going to go for vacation in October, then he’s got problems.
Personally, even though I don’t like the makeup of this team as it is right now, I still expect the playoffs with the caliber of talent Omar has put togetther. He’s not to blame for the under .500 record.
How cannot he not shoulder some of the blame? Depending on Moises Alou was incredibly naive on Minaya’s part. Signing Luis Castillo to a four-year contract was also an incredibly questionable move. Having Jorge Sosa in bullpen was also questionable at best.
Having an aging bench is all on Minaya. Not having outfield depth in the minors is all on Minaya.
Minaya must take some of the blame here. Everybody takes some of the blame in this situation.
Not having any depth in the minors is on Minaya as well, he’s had over 3 years to get the farm system to at least respectable and we have nothing to show for it, even most of the prospects we’ve traded for pieces weren’t brought in by him.
Hey, I didn’t say Omar can’t do any wrong, far from it. But the bottomline here is that this crisis is solely on Willie. The underperformance has nothing to do with Omar. If you give Reyes/Wright/Beltran/Santana/Maine/Wagner to any other team, they’ll be no worse than .500! It doesn’t matter if Alou Castillo and any else is with them or not. If you give this team as it is to any other manager in the Majors right now, I strongly doubt any one could do worse than Willie is now.
Gina, if the Mets are 30-20 right now, would you still be complaining about the lack of depth in the minors?
And I wouldn’t be so quick to say that we have nothing to show for the 3 years: Johan Santana. You can’t build a farm system full of major league ready players (if you’re talking about depth, they’d have to be major league ready) if you only have 3 years to develop them. It took Wright and Reyes more than 3 years from the time they were signed to become full-time players…and they had extreme talent.
Yes I would. And where did I say major league depth, I’m talking about depth for trades or call-ups. And only 2 of the players brought in by Omar were traded for Santana. So in 3 years we have half of Santana.
I’m not saying we should have players ready to contribute this year but there’s no reason our farm system should be in the bottom of the league still. After 3 years I would should at least have major prospects in A and AA ball, but of the talent we have in AA ball only Niese, Murphy & Martinez in AA was drafted by this regime. And only Martinez is really considered a major prospect.
The Red Sox, Tigers, and Yankees rebuilt their farm systems in 4-5 years. After 3 years we’re still mediocre.
Do you see why that’s a major problem?
In 3 years we got: Santana, Delgado (when he was considered in his prime), Lo Duca (when he was one of the better catchers in the league), Nady (which turned into Perez), Sanchez, Church, Castillo (while he was decent), and El Duque (at the time where he was going to help this team).
That’s a lot of big and small pieces that Omar had acquired and not doubt cost a good amount of minor leaguers from the fame. He used a barren farm to acquire these pieces in the last three years. Granted, many of these player we acquired are over the hill today but the were instrumental to the team at the time they were acquired.
The three teams you mentions about the farm turnaround…the Yankees still don’t have a farm, sure there’s the trio of Kennedy, Hughes, and Joba but only one is major league ready as a reliever and still no sure fire guarantee that any of the will pan out as starters. The only thing you can say about them is pitcher heavy and top heavy. The Tigers’ is not what it was after the Cabrera trade – it’s amazing how the farm can decline after you trade for a star in his prime. The Red Sox – Lester, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Papelbon, and Bucholtz averages 25 years of age. And like you said, it took all three teams 4-5 years to create that.
And re: you comment on depth. If you’re not talking about major league depth, why does it matter who we call up? If you’re going to call up players that’s not ML-ready, what’s the point?
I think you’re still missing my point, we got Delgado and Santana but those guys we traded were here before. I’m talking prospect that have been brought in since Omar came, not ones from previous regimes. Only two of those guys were involved in trades and that’s Mulvey and Guerra.
The guys you named for the red sox are that age now, and actually most of them are under 24 Papelbon is the one pulling their average up, but three years into epstein’s regime those guys have been highly rated prospects. We don’t have any prospects like that, and even with those guys in the major leagues the Red Sox still have a stacked farm system with guys like Lowrie and Masterson and Lars Anderson among others, so it’s not like it produced those guys and that was it.
And there are a lot more than just those guys for the Yankees, there’s also Canoe and Cabrera who are there all ready. There’s Austin Jackson, who’s still in the minors and Jose Tabata among others.
And what difference does the Cabrera trade make, the point is the Tigers were able to build a strong farm system in a short-time. Which we have not done, it has nothing to do with the trades we’ve made because the players who were traded were either mediocre prospects to begin with or they were brought in before Omar.
And you can call up a player who’s not ML ready, Milledge and Gomez weren’t ML ready when we called them up, neither is Evans now, or Pelfrey when he’s come up in previous years. The point is in tight spots when we have injuries we don’t have those guys to call up now. And after three years there’s no excuse for that either.
The point is in 3 years our farm system is basically in the same place it started, if not worse off, and is still lacking talent and depth. Omar has no excuse for that.
Castillo sucks
the wilpons should read this blog every once in a while to get a feel for the pulse of the fans.
I’m sure they do
I think that we need Frank Robinson to come to the mets. We need a tough guy who will kick the mets back into shape. He will make sure they will start winning. I also think they need to get adam dunn for heilman and perez. then we must sign freddy garcia. We would have added a big bat and a great pitcher (and got rid of heilman and perez!)
How come Mathew Ceronne wasn’t one of the options in the polls of who we want to be the Mets Manager?
Goodbye Willie.
Matt should be the bench coach. This way he can blog during the game and go to Willie “The fans want you to hi-and-run right here. The fans want you to get Smith up in the bullpen.”
If Willie is not going to be fired, and he probably won’t be, then the Wilpons and Omar need to come out in total support for him in his job security. They don’t have to agree with what he has said or done up until right now, but if he is staying on then they need to make it clear that they are behind him. They owe that to everyone involved with the organization. It is their responsibility to try and keep things running as smoothly as possible, so a vote for Willie from them needs to be a solid one.
We don’t have to give him that same respect if we don’t want to, but like him or not, he needs to get that from his bosses if he’s staying.
He’s out. The only issue is when, and who’s been talking to the Wilpons behind the scenes about taking the job. That could be the reason for the week-long silence from the top: Wilpons were taking the time to get their ducks in a row before making the move
Well if he is staying today they need to say that they support him. They don’t have to mean it or stick to it down the line. All I am saying is that if they tell us he’s staying on today, they shouldn’t do it part of the way. They need to shut the circus down for a while, at least until they are ready to officially do something else. And I don’t think this guy goes anywhere before the all-star break no matter what happens on the field.
If they stick with him, Omar and the Wilpons better both be at Shea tonight to endure the reaction.
If they stay with him, that to me is sending a message to the fans that they are OK with things the way they are. I really wanted to see the team figure out a way to win with him, but it just isn’t going to happen. The media stuff just adds more fuel to the fire. They need to get off the fence and either can him or support him today. Then they are all going to have to deal with the fan reaction to their decision.
this mess is not omar’s fault, he has been a good, not perfect general manager for us.
this is willie’s fault, he has no passion, he doesnt argue calls and when he does, he looks scare talking to the umpires, he cant manage a NY team because he is too soft and cant handle pressure
How can the wilpons keep willie after the overwhelming fan outrage about this guy? Why would they go against the fan base? It’s not like it is a few fans complaining but rather a majority of the fan base. It will be a major disappointment if willie is not fired today and the wilpons will deserve this team to fail if they don’t have the guts to cut willie loose.
i think that we shouldnt give up on the mets. look at it like this. pedro is coming back. you can tell that some of the mets hitting is coming back. we have pretty dmn good rooks in the farm led by nick evans. and most of all santana is an incredible second half pitcher. if we get rid of willie and add a big bat and one more pitcher i think this mets team can make a great comeback. if not i guess we will have to live with the consistent mockery from yankee fans.
Most of my Yankee fan friends have been smart enough to keep their mouths shut so far this season.
We cannot depend on pedro anymore. Been there done that…..Good riddance pedro
Pedro isn’t done. can you imagine that boost if he comes back strong. our pitching staff would be incredible.
Johan (great second half pitcher)
Pedro (pitches well under pressure)
Maine (our future ace)
freddy garcia (sure fire ace)
Pelf (starting to really become a pitcher
you’re way overvaluing Garcia
you’re also overvaluing Pelfrey, unless he gets another pitch.
and I thought that bowl of kool aid was dry already.
Pedro is still very good, but to think he’ll make a difference is assinine. You miust have slept through september like the Mets did. Pedro exceeding expectations in September with a 2.57ERA and it didn’t matter. The Church and Schneider trade should have put us over the top, but it doesn’t matter. Delgado shows signs of bouncing back to a 30+ HR Season (even if his average is awful) and the team just keeps losing. No forward progress while Randolph is here. Omar needs to get creative-Mets fans are all over the players right now but don’t think for a second other teams wouldn’t be interested in our guys. Perez alone would fetch us a few good prospects.
Not only are you over-valuing Pelf, but are you planning to DFA Perez?
I agree Bosco, I think Pedro’s departure will be good for this team, and I know that’s not going to be a popular opinion. I’ve had enough dependance on undependable players.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, obviously, and nobody is right or wrong, but I really have a hard time understanding how someone can argue that Willie deserves more time with this team. “Omar is to blame also” is not an excuse, of course he is, but I’ve never seen a team get a spark from getting a GM switch mid-season.
I agree.Anything less than firing willie today will not shake this team up. A change in hitting coach or pitching coach may help but anything short of firing the manager will not wake this dead team up. If the wilpons keep willie then their decision is strictly based upon not paying him off for the remainder of the contract. Maybe they should have refused omar’s request to give castillo 4 years and $25 million and saved some cash to pay willie off!
we all know he is not getting fired today, but if we get swept by the marlins, look by thursday or friday for him to pack his bags
I would like to see how they talk their way out of this. If he’s staying I would hope he stays with their full public support. Maybe that isn’t the case. But if it is, I don’t see how they can support him today and then fire him after a few more games. If they are at all interested in firing him, they should just do it and stop waiting for something else to happen. Then again, they could have fired him on the road trip. I don’t think the meeting is going to be the end for him. Maybe Heilman though.
If you want to see your season go down the drains fire your coach in the middle of it. If you want to see your players energized, demote the ones playing poorly.
Willie is coaching better than most players are playinig, stop acting like medi eval lunatics. Braiiiiiiinsssss
Go down the tubes like when the Marlins fired their manager in ‘03 and the Astros in ‘05, right?
The Astros didn’t fire their manager mid-season in 2005.
And, Garner isn’t even there any longer.
He means ‘04. Garner was brought in as interim manager and the team went on a run a lost in game 7 of the NLCS.
Oh, ok.
Here’s the irony. Jimy Williams was fired in 2004 when their record was 44-44. You know what their record was the following year after the same number of games under Garner? Yup. 44-44.
The Astros were just a slow starter those years. Maybe it wouldn’t have made a difference with or without Garner who they ended up firing last year.
if only MLB had non-guaranteed contracts. Just like the NFL.
Not performing?
======>
There’s the door, buddy.
You must buy your suits in Hong Kong.
I do not understand your humor, your logic, nor your politics.
And I take great comfort in that statement.
If the wilpons don’t want to pay willie’s contract by firing him today, they will not want to DFA any players with larger contracts like delgado for example.
We need someone who is gonna light a fire under these slouches !!!
David Wright is hitting .214 against righty’s this year….and he is our best player.
I like Willie, but the truth is our guys are underperforming under his leadership, and while he may not be directly at fault, we need something to change.
David Wright hitting .214 against righties this year is not my issue with Willie.
David Wright hitting .214 against righties this year and Willie not doing anything about it is my issue with Willie.
And from the cheapseats from where I am sitting, I have no idea if Willie has done anything hands-on to change this other than say “go get em tomorrow, David”.
Agree.
FRANK ROBINSON!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe 10 years ago.
maybe 40 years ago
Frank Robinson won’t nest below this level.
awesome
just awesome
When will Omar start making some player moves? Someone must need an over the hill $16M first baseman or a 4 year contract 2nd baseman with no knees, or a relief pitcher who specializes in giving up homers or a starter who doesn’t know were his next pitch is headed or a shortstop who’s a drunk or a 41 year old DL guy, etc…..
Well said! No one wants any of our stiff players. Not only has omar ruined our farm system with hardly any prospects but he also has an undesirable, untradeable team of stiffs…
wow, you must’ve really spoke out against the Delgado trade 3 years ago.
You can’t ruin a farm system when there isn’t one to start with. I’m not the biggest Omar fan but you have to give him credit when due. With the exception of Bell, Keppinger, and maybe Bannister and Milledge, what former Mets minor league is a regular in the majors today? (and you can’t mention CarGo since I’d pull that trade anyday!) The farm system today is better than the day Omar showed up. Not much better, but better nonetheless.
If by drunken Shortstop, you mean Reyes, I think a few teams would take him, but it’s all pretty right on and both sad and funny.
You guys don’t have a clue. Struggling players get traded all the time. Baseball people understand guys have up and down years. If were willing to trade Reyes we would get a ton back. Perez has good trade value. Even Alou can get you a good prospect at the deadline to a contender in the AL. The TEAM sucks. The individual players still have plenty of value to others clubs with the exception of Duque, who won’t return in time to build any value, and Castillo who was pretty much given to us by Minny, and now has an untradeable contract. Even delgado is tradeable to a team in need of a dh. Omars best bet is to keep his eyes and ears open and hope the injury bug hits some teams by the deadline. He needs to steal a page from Billy Beane and realize too many things have to go right to win this year, and focus on building the future. There is no way Perez should be on this team after the deadline If we could get a few prospects back for Perez it would be like trading Perez for Johan straight up, and we could use our many draft picks to overstock the farm instead of restock it.
Who cares what happens today, it’s still the same team. There’s other stuff to worry about or put more importance to. Did anyone about how Geremi Gonzalez? He got struck by lightning and died in Venezuela. He pitched in 2006 for the Mets against the Yankees. He wasn’t a great pticher but it is sad.
I agree that’s sad and should’ve been a post on metsblog about it.
Very sad. Why can’t the lightening have better aim…we were praying for it to hit Willie…
Very sad.
apparently the almighty and highly influencial Bill Webb was not in charge of lightning strikes today.
Dude…no one wants Willie to DIE.
Most of want him fired, but would never wish him illness or otherwise…
Gipper: “we”? You must have a mouse in your pocket.
Condolences to the Gonzalez family.
Horrible news.
Rest in peace Geremi. My condolences to his family.
RIP Geremi. My prayers go out to the Gonzalez family.
I saw Gonzalez pitch a great game in Milwaukee in May of 2006. Pitched really well. This was the game we first realized the Jose Valentin could still play baseball, Duanar Sanchez was actually human (gave up a late game tying 3 run blast), and Paul LoDuca went deep off Turnbow to win it.
It was also Derek Turnbow bobblehead day. The first ever bobblehead with hair. I’m not kidding. I still have it. Well…just the head. After the Loduca’s blast, we ripped off the head and spiked the doll on the ground. The entire bleacher section of Brewers fans stared at us as if we shot their moms after kicking their dogs.
I’m looking for something completely out of the blue to change on this team and hopefully turn things around. It seems firing the manager, or changing a few players is too obvious a fix at this point as to why this team has been so mediocre for so long.
ironically, this post comes directly after a post discussing lightning strikes.
irony. loving the irony on Metsblog today, kids.
i agree with some of the posts above, i believe this meeting is to clarify what willie said in the media and to see if he is on the same page with the gm and ownership. the best thing that may come out of this meeting is player changes that probably will be discussed
head on nailed it
ive been refreshing every few minutes- i just want to know if willie will be back!!!!!!!!!
Nothing is going to happen today. It is obvious that the Wilpons will not fire Willie or Omar, and if they do it this year, it won’t happen until at least the all-star break. This is just a chance for Willie to spew the same garbage to the Wilpons so they get an understanding of the team even though everyone knows it’s going down the gutter.
That would be too bad Maineiac, and the worst outcome of all.
I do not agree. I think the wilpons are pissed. they put all of their money in to this team and they have gotten sht in return. they are either going to fire willie or give him this last series against the marlins. if we lose the series good bye willie
The Wilpons have been laughing all the way to the bank for awhile. The Mets have been a cash cow to them since taking over managing ownership rights one month after the last WC in 1986. Their “interest” in winning on the field has come and gone through the many years since then with varying results (all short of another ring, of course). In fact, they’ve repeatedly withstood losing and incompetence many times. They’ve played a big part in the losing and incompetence. As for “sht in return.” Nah, cash cow. That’s their main concern and always will be.
Willie has lost this team and he will never find them again
I have yet to understand this type of thinking. When you consider that everything we see of WR is the “public” persona he puts on for the cameras, and couple that with our virtually complete lack of knowledge regarding WR’s off-camera persona, how can the statement that WR has “lost this team” be anything but a projection? We don’t see the real interactions.
They all know whats going on its time to take actions. there should be nothing left to discuss since last year
This is not looking good… It only takes a few minutes to fire someone.
Anything new to report on Willie.
If this guy is managing tonight I’m boycotting the Mets. This is crazy. The only reason he wouldn’t be fired is that the Wilpons don’t want to pay another manager.
Fine do that. I agree that Willie needs to go, but too many people act like he’s the only cause of this team’s problems. The players still deserve the blame, no matter who the manager is tonight it still is up to the players to perform.
Gland you don’t get it.
Letting the manager go is the FIRST step toward correcting what’s wrong. Having a “nice meeting” wastes everyone’s time.
Let’s Move On
Let’s Move On
Let’s Move On….
Don’t tell me I don’t get it. I just happen to have a different opinion of the importance of this move. But hey, if you want to stop watching the team if they don’t fire him, go right ahead.
By the way, since I don’t get it, I’d love you to explain it to me. What’s the second step? The third?
Does the players playing better factor into this at all?
we know how useful meetings are (see: player meeting post-nationals series)
You like that approach.. well that’s just great …. Sure the Wilpons are going to sell us more patience… please ridiculous allready. I am leaving for the game now.. i just hope i don’t drive off the road hearing Willie is staying..
Freddie Coupons won’t pay
Everyone screaming for Frank Robinson…….check out his Wikipedia page……
“Also, some journalists have questioned his lack of use of statistics to determine pitching match-ups with his hitting line-ups. Robinson defended his style of managing by saying that he goes by his “gut feeling.”
* In a June 2005 Sports Illustrated poll of 450 MLB players, Robinson was selected the worst manager in baseball, along with Buck Showalter, then manager of the Texas Rangers. In the August 2006 poll, he again was voted worst manager with 17% of the vote and 37.7% of the NL East vote.”
Voted worst manager…….twice…..
GUT FEELING?????????????
Oh yeah….I want this guy
Well we all know Joe Torre is Willie’s father. But it looks like we found his mother!
didn’t you know? statistics are for nerdy nerds who clearly never played baseball past 5th grade. baseball games are won with fire, passion, grit, and heart, not getting runners on base and getting timely hits.
hey bedwetter,
You need to find some new material. Copy and Pasting the same crap is lazy and unoriginal.
copy and pasting the same crap, like calling me a bedwetter? good one danny. do me a favor and think before you post next time. also, get off my nuts, thanks.
Anybody know if Willie shaved his head and mustache again? That gesture alone always buys him more time.
Willie is not getting fired and we all know it. Let’s just get healthy and if we are still struggling come the ASB then we fire Wille and put in Manuel. I think firing him now or then would not change the direction of this team for this year at all.
I tend to agree with Matt (and sorry if I’m way late on this, lol) that Willie isn’t going to lose his job right now. I was listening to WFAN when I was out before, and although I don’t think and never thought Willie is the right manager for this particular type of team, I think he’s going to keep his job until one of two things happens: either (1) the team is going down the tubes faster than you can say Gary Carter *snicker*, in which case he won’t last until the All Star Break; or (2) the team continues to play see saw marjorie daw type of ball (which I think is the more likely option), in which case he’ll last to the end of the year, and then, mercifully, that will be it.
Gary Carter.
There I said it.
With this much spent on payroll, they should be 10 games in front by the end of May. And who pays the payroll?
You do.
They are 1-6 in the last week. Besides the Yanks, they got wiped by the Nats.
You need more than that?
They should be ahead by 10 games. Or at least 10+games over .500
“…as i have said before, i like willie’s old-school, hard-nosed style…the problem is that he does not have players who fit that mold…so, either he needs some new players, or the current players need a different leader – or, some constructive combination of the two…either way, though, the status quo is not working, and today seems to be a nice step in figuring out how best to move forward…”
Matt, you are correct in your analysis, but wouldn’t it have been just as correct on October 1 and isn’t all of this equally as late?
“nice step”
Should have read “First step”
And that “nice/first Step” is about 8 months late.
what is it going to take to fire this guy? a 50 game losing streak? the wilpons have no committment to winning or placating their fans
They are so far ahead in ticket sales this year — and will have no problem selling out the new park the following 2-3 years, what’s the rush?
i think you’re wrong. there will be many empty seats in citi field if a bad team is playing there. i don’t care if they build the park out of pure gold.
Dykstraw, first of all, they cut out like 15000 seats. So a normal 40,000 crowd at Shea the past year or two, will be a sellout at Schiti Field.
Secondly, businesses and groups own the 100 and 200 series of field boxes and seats around home plate on other levels. Freddie Coupons doesn’t give a crap about some poor schmuck trying to bring his wife and kids to a ballgame. That’s why they’ve got SNY.
Now, if they continue to SUCK (and they SUCK — they should be 10 games over .500 by now with the payroll they have) into 2011 and beyond, yes, then the seats will be empty.
But that place will sell out for the next two seasons even if they do not show up to play! Ask the Brewers.
People are fooling themselves if they think Willie is getting fired today. The Mets will not fire their manager or at least announce that they’ve fired their manager 3 hours before game time. Not happening, no way no how.
Well they wouldn’t fire him before tonight’s game. They would probably ask him to manage until a certain date with pay, and then they will ask him to leave.
Uhmm if they fire him/ ask him to leave they will have to pay his salary regardless.
Oh I forgot he was still under contract.
too bad
Bet ya
Matt, I don’t agree with you in that Omar should get new players just so they fit Willie’s managerial style. It should be the other way around. It is obvious Willie doesn’t have a grip on the team, which is causing them to be underachieving. I know it is not rational, but the only way to wake this team up is to get a manager who can control his clubhouse. That said, Tony Bernazard should be fired immediately,do to the wreckage that he has created.
I would have to agree, removing the clubhouse lawyer (assuming it is true), would be an excellent 1st step. show the players the divided clubhouse is not cutting it. willie shouldnt be canned b/c two key starters havent been able to pitch, and one of the lineup’s strongest bats cant play a month without a trip to the DL.
the faulty roster is Omar’s responsibility. anyone watch the game for 5 yrs or so (pre-roid days), realizes that 37-38 yrs of age is when time catches up to 99.9% of players.
willie should be given 30 days to show he can light a fire under these guys and straighten things out. Maybe Jose Valentin would be an excellent addition as a coach if he is no longer physically able to play.
We should be following the model of the 2003 Marlins regarding the manager job but the Wilpons apparently would rather follow the 2007 Astros model.
if meaningful change isn’t made soon, the wilpons will be looking at a lot of unsold plans for next year and plummeting ratings. it’s their money. no bad mets team has ever been anything other than a financial catastrophe, and no mets team has ever had as much invested in it than the 2009 mets.
ownership has talked a whole bunch that things have to turn around. if nothing changes, we will know it was all a bunch of hot air.
The Wilpon baseball legacy has always been their continual return to “The Worst Team Money Could Buy.” It’s like home for them. Familiar and comforting. I think we’re up to Version III or maybe Version IV, depending on how you characterize the collapse of the “Dynasty That Wasn’t” in the late 80’s-early 90’s. Sometimes, the Wilpons shake things up with “The Cheap Youth Movement From Hell,” but “TWTMCB” is so much more cooler. It paints them more as sympathetic buffoons instead of moronic idiots.
i like how willie is even around to remind us of 1992.
it’s like they forgot what shea looked like in the early 90s! attendance figures around 1.8 million. it would be a disaster. mets fans do not pay for a losing product…EVER.
Wilpon has never had a losing year. Maybe he should be the manager. He can bring in his buddy Sandy Koufax to be pitching coach.
Oh they claim losses for taxes. But the income, and the value of the franchise has gone straight up every single year.
Look it up.
why won’t they just fire willie. get Frank robinson or ken oberkfall to manage. it just isn’t fun being a met fan with willie managing
Get Bobby Valentine over here again, those were the fun days :D
“i like willie’s old-school, hard-nosed style”
Didn’t know not hustling was considered hard-nosed.
evan roberts suggested barack obama should give the mets an inspirational speech
It’s true what Willie said, when you’re doing good people love you, when you’re bad, they get on you. i think we should give this guy one more chance. at the same time, someone has to be traded. We need to bring in another player to help the team move on.
In other words, Omar and Willie are gonna rearrange deck chairs on the titanic…
It is a travesty if Willie is managing tonight. Forgetting about the change for a sake of change, this guy is a horrible manager. He brings nothing to the table but bad move after bad move.
it aint working fix it somehow some way
MC: “i like willie’s old-school, hard-nosed style…the problem is that he does not have players who fit that mold”
Dead-on, although Wright could conceivably be trained. First, teach them to take out catchers when sliding into home, & not try to dance around them. Next, fine Delgado (& anyone else) every time he fails to try to hit a ball into the open savannah during shifts against him. Finally…??
In the end, we just don’t seem to have enough “competitive” people to play a “competitive” game. The thing isn’t just “skills,” but coupling skills with “orneryness” in one player, if you will. Just because you’ve got 3-5 tools doesn’t mean you’re necessarily hooked on the “win at all costs” Pete Rose style of beisbol that fans here seem to expect.
I know this is poor sportsmanship, but just once I’d like to see one of their pitchers drill a batter. The pitchers are way too timid. Funny thing is, Pedro had a reputation like that before coming here. Now his reputation is a broken down old tosser.
Where is a guy like Ray Knight when you need him?
This team is TOO NICE.
Nice guys finish a game behind the Phillies.
I just think if they got rid of delgado and got a sean casey type player…that would be really great for the team.
it could be worse. it could be 1992.
sean casey can barely make contact with the ball :o
ahhhhh… if only sweet lou was available i bet he would get these soft pansy no passion playing pric*s in line and get them to start being tougher when they are down in a game and not pack it up in the 4th fuc*ing inning…
the mental part of the game is controlled by the manager obviously not the actual playing but whos fault is it when the players go out there and just feel over matched every at bat when a pitcher doesn’t trust his stuff when hes behind the count ..
all has to do with the coaches ..get rid of willie , hojo and peterson start fresh before its to late .. .. i dont agree with firing omar he has done what he can now with what is available .. forget what he has done in the past
he has given us a pretty talented team who is capable of winning games they are just obviously manged wrong in every aspect of the game.
The meeting has concluded and all parties agreed to fire Rickey Henderson again. The Wilpons and Omar Minaya are satisfied that the team and fans will get the message that the Mets are serious about winning. Jay Horwitz is currently trying to track down exactly where Rickey Henderson is right now to inform him that he has been fired again.
Reasons for Mets troubles
Moises Alou-They need a big bat in left field and he can’t be depended on as a regular-We need a regular freakin left fielder
Luis Castillo-One of the worst signings-he looks 5 years older than his age
Carlos Delgado-You can be getting older but he constantly swings at loust pitches-he looks lost much of the time and his defense is horrendous
Aaron Heilman-I have no idea what has happened to a once very promising pitcher
Duanner Sanchez.has a ways to go before he totally regains form-If ever
Oliver Perez-Some team is going to overpay for him next year and he will give them heartburn.The most inconsistant pitcher the mets have ever had
Jose Reyes-he needs to concentrate.he is totally losing focus. This is not the same player we had so much promise for
Brian Schneider-he might have good defensive skills but he cannot Hit!.Others have to pick up his slack.Lo Duca was always good for a clutch single
Carlos Beltran-I know people want to just kill him with criticism but-he does play an excellent centerfield,he has hit the ball hard Right at people and with Delgado batting behind him he’s not getting those fat pithes that he can drive
AND-Omar bet on age and he lost!!.next year save the money with Moises and Delgado gone and get Mark Texiera and a decent left fielder who will be out there everyday.
I’ll go back again-To not have an everyday healthy left fielder is ridiculous in baseball.One of the safest positions.Cut Moises right now
I would blame Willie but there is way more to blame than him
Peace, Jason a mMt fan since april 1963
For all those who think that Manuel is not such a good idea as an interim manager, remember that he took the 2000 Whitesox to the post-season by winning the Central Division.
He may not be such a bad idea.
http://www.fyrebug.com/2008/05/22/fire-willie/