Comments on: Opinion: Heilman

By: go-go gomez

go-go gomez — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 23:41:29 +0000

This comment is very, very hurtful.
i have to go home and cry to my mommy now…

By: go-go gomez

go-go gomez — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 23:02:21 +0000

Despite the bad taste which this post displays, I do not understand how the writer is coming under so much fire. I believe I sense a few shreds of jealousy, that your own writing skills do not compare.

And c’mon, like you haven’t contemplated getting rid of Heilman, in one way or another…

By: thebloggersbeat

thebloggersbeat — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 18:27:13 +0000

I’ve never had confidence in Heilman. Last-year isn’t long ago at all, however, it will last long enough, and I’ll never forget.

Heilman has given-up more home-runs during his one-inning, three-out bullpen responsibility that I can handle. Too many important games have been wasted due to this guy alone. The Metropolitans can surely survive without him.

Funny how some people may only remember Beltran’s frozen look as he looks at strike-three during a game that could’ve made the Mets World Series bound. Yes, it’s heartbreaking to see a player of his caliber—in a huge spot—forget to swing; however, I must shift the most blame to a pitcher who gives up the biggest home-run he’ll hopefully ever give up as a Met.

By: Necciai27

Necciai27 — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 07:36:26 +0000

Thanks for the response, Joe (and the well-wishes)! You make an excellent point about Steve Carlton, but the fact is, Lefty’s slider was NOT a traditional slider. Check out his website and you’ll find the grip is a far cry from anything we think of today as a slider. It falls somewhere inbetween “slurve” and “screwball.” Carlton was a complete oddity in the way that he threw that pitch (and if you’ll note from his description, he seems to have supinated the pitch far less than a current slider…more on the level of a curve).

Also, Heilman HAS had chronic tendonitis since about 2005. Whether that’s from overuse (a very real problem and one I think is what hurts guys with otherwise good mechanics) or from his mechanics, there’s unfortunately no way to tell. But I wouldn’t think his current set would be actively helping said tendonitis.

I also agree with this statement, but believe you’re leaving something out…

“Heilman would be fine with more structured, consistent work (i.e., starting). His major issues with control, and leaving the ball up, are due to fatigue, and his arm angle at the release point dropping a few inches — the hand gets under the ball, the ball goes up. When he’s strong, the fingers stay on top, the ball goes down.”

That’s all fine and good, but what about a breaking pitch? A forkball (NOT a splitter) CAN serve as a substitute for a true breaking ball (just ask Roy Face, Dave Stewart, or Bruce Hurst), but it has to be a very GOOD forkball. Unfortunately, Heilman’s forkball is pretty pedestrian in quality and I doubt it could serve as a breaking pitch substitute.

What then if he does throw the slider? I still think he suffers serious injury. While he did throw a slider as a starter, he didn’t throw it very much. Not as little as he does now, but still relatively little. He instead threw more of the forkball.

He’s almost in a catch-22 here. Would he be better as a starter? Certainly. He has the mentality. But would he last long relying on his current breaking ball? I very much doubt it. Frankly, I’d like to see Heilman traded. Not for junk, but for value. I’d like to see him go to some team where he can start and perhaps learn a curve (which Rick Peterson doesn’t seem to teach; rather he advocates the slurve) or other easier breaking pitch. As a sidearmer, Heilman’s slider is already likely closer to a slurve than a true slider and I doubt Peterson could help him there.

By: gomets019

gomets019 — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:01:32 +0000

You’re a F+%king LOSER!

By: gomets019

gomets019 — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 04:54:43 +0000

Loser. You are pathetic and disgusting. I’m still in F$@kING shock that you exist, that you took the time to write this horses*&t down, and that you actually had the balls and the bad taste to think it was worth sharing with the rest of us. It’s rare that you come accross an attempt at creativity sooo offensively stupid and annoying that you start to question the merits of having freedom of speech. I’d give up some of my own rights if it would guarantee that you never speak or write in a public forum again. It’s weird, creepy, morons like you that actually do blow things up while innocent people are inside.
“Life’s short and hard like a bodybuilding elf so save the planet and kill yourself!”-The Bloodhound Gang.

By: Joe Janish

Joe Janish — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 04:08:53 +0000

I actually teach pitching mechanics, and coached pitchers at the NCAA D-1 level, with several of my subjects moving on to pro ball. None of my pitchers suffered major arm injuries nor required surgery — that’s something I’m proud of.

I do agree that Heilman’s mechanics are far from ideal, but they work for him. I wouldn’t teach his motion to anyone, but it’s gotten him this far without major issues — save for minor elbow surgery after the 2006 season which I’m convinced had more to do with overuse than anything.

Yes, several pitchers with similar arm action to Heilman have had major injuries. And you point out excellent points. Again, I’d never teach anyone to get that high with the elbow nor pinch the shoulder blades. However, dozens (maybe hundreds?) of pitchers with “good” mechanics have also suffered rotator cuff tears, torn labrums, needed TJ surgery, etc. In other words, there’s no guarantee one way or the other that a particular throwing motion is going to cause or not cause an injury. Some guys can do just fine with “bad” mechanics, others can’t. Steve Carlton comes to mind as a guy who should have suffered chronic arm injuries due to the way he threw across his body, but never did. Everyone is different.

Heilman would be fine with more structured, consistent work (i.e., starting). His major issues with control, and leaving the ball up, are due to fatigue, and his arm angle at the release point dropping a few inches — the hand gets under the ball, the ball goes up. When he’s strong, the fingers stay on top, the ball goes down.

Good stuff, Necciai … nice to know there are fans out there paying attention to these things. Good luck with the comeback!

By: fiveboroughs

fiveboroughs — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 03:47:16 +0000

what?

By: theCoop

theCoop — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:28:59 +0000

I do think that if cultivated Aaron Heilman can be a fantastic starting pitcher not just for the Mets but for any NY team. My thinking is this – when he starts a game, the pressure is off. There is no one on base, there are no runs, no errors, no hits. He has a clean slate. It’s when he comes into a game with runners on, with a short lead, etc that’s when he gets nervous. Most Aaron’s problems are in his head. His stuff is nasty when he’s on his game. I will always point to the 1-hitter in 2005 against the Marlins – THAT was the Heilman we should see. he does not have the mental make up to be a reliever – that my friends is the issue. Not his number of pitches. If that’s the case, Pelf should be in the BP. End of story. Boom. (good job Joe!)

By: Necciai27

Necciai27 — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:05:10 +0000

No problem. I really like researching pitching mechanics, especially on individual pitchers. I do this BECAUSE I was injured in high school due to terrible mechanics. I had a poor arm action, injurious scap load, and poor timing. I’m currently trying to come back on an amateur league level as a low sidearm/submarine pitcher (mechanics modelled on but not identical to Cla Meredith of the San Diego Padres).