|
|
|
In an article for ESPN.com, Bob Klapisch describes how the Mets have a good chance to restock their depleted farm system with young talent during Thursday’s MLB draft.
The Mets hold the 18th, 22nd, and 33rd selections.
On deciding whether to pursue pitchers or position players, Omar Minaya said:
“We’re going after the best available players. That’s going to come first.”
…the Mets have done pretty well with their first round selections in recent years, but have had a tougher time letting those players grow within their system…i just hope that their philosophy is now geared more towards nurturing home-grown talent rather than buying older players…
Once Again I’m the Rickey Henderson of this Post… LoL…
not funny…just immature attempts to write “first” for every post. Go away.
I say we get this kid a helmet before he hurts himself.
I’ve never understood the appeal of writing “first.”
Mood stabilizers are in order for this guy.
I think it shows that you need a little more of a life. No offense Matt, I love reading what you write and I check it often especially during the games. But the fact that downkim79 has managed to write the first comment on EVERY post for. . . who cares shows that he must literally have the thing up on his screen and hit refresh every 10 seconds. Don’t you have something better to do.
FWIW, these guys that post “first” really don’t care that you’re insulting them. They know they’re being assholes and pointing it out doesn’t instill and sort of guilt or force some epiphany.
Write to Matt and tell him to ban people that say “first”. Otherwise, ignore it.
I say we send him to Gitmo
Don’t be an enabler, ignore donwkim. As far as the real meaning of the thread, the Mets truly need help in the monor leagues. We must have one of the poorest farm systems. We couldn’t have traded away everybody worthwhile down there could we?
The ONLY acceptable first post for any Mets Blog entry should be:
Let’s Go Mets!
wow, that time it was hilarious.
anyway, best player available has to be the strategy, since who knows what our needs will be by the time this draft class is ready to contribute.
I only partially agree with that.
I think when drafting high-level college players you can look at what you need. For example- wouldn’t it be great to have a catcher ready to come up in 2-3 years? That would be more useful than having a 3rd baseman ready to come up in that time.
With highschoolers I think your right- best available. If it were me I’d prefer a good highschool pitcher and some good college hitters (including a catcher!)
Not if the catcher you are getting (hypothetically) is the best of a weak field. Don’t waste a first round pick on somebody whose upside isn’t great just because you may need that position soon.
That’s how you end up with middle relievers.
If you need a catcher, then you trade that great 3rd baseman you drafted and who is blocked by Wright for a catcher.
Best talent. Best talent. Best talent!!!!!!!!!
If you need a catcher, then you trade that great 3rd baseman you drafted and who is blocked by Wright for a catcher.
-I just think thats easier said then done…
Of course your also gonna pick top talent but I think with players closer to being ready you can do a little matching. If the second base class or outfield class is stronger than catcher go with that instead.
However I thought I read somewhere that the catching class is deep this year.
And you end up with middle relievers when you don’t have high draft picks.
no you end up with middle relievers when that’s all you pick. It’s not like every decent prospect ever has only come from the first round. But when you only select college players who were middle relievers and don’t have the stuff to be closers thats what you’re going to end up with.
Do college players who were middle relievers and didn’t have the stuff to be closers actually get drafted?
metinDC23:
Of course it is easier said than done, but trades can be made. i would rather have the flexibility of a strong farm than a mediocre player who was best at that position, be it a need or not, at draft time.
Like I said, my examples are hypothetical because I don’t know if the draft is deep in catchers or not.
I agree that if it’s close talent-wise, you go for the need, but you don’t pass over the next Mike Schmidt because you have David Wright and then select Alex Trevino. If your choice is between the next Schmidt and the Next Pudge, then those are close enough to go with need.
Like I said, again, hypothetical. But needs change rapidly on the Major League level, so I think you are always wiser to go for talent.
Considering the scouting reports on all the middle relievers we selected said they didn’t have enough pitches to be closers… yes.
Tide: I was only talking about the first round picks- I wanna say that for the most part players are gonna be close talent-wise. When your talking about the top guys its hard to judge whose gonna be the best major leaguer. Of course I’d never advocate taking an average player over a really great one based on needs.
Really, Kunz was the only reliever we took other than Clyne (high picks I mean). Vineyard, Moviel, Rustich and Niesen will all be starting pitchers in our system, unless they prove they can’t handle it.
Joe Smith? He was a reliever!
Tide-
I was speaking strictly the 2007 draft.
If there was ever a time for the Mets to break the slotting system (which every other big market team has done by this point) it’s now. The farm system is bare, please Mets, no more 7th inning relievers or projected back of the rotation guys, if Selig doesn’t want teams using their financial advantages to take advantage of the draft, then he should put his foot down and make it a rule. Also Mets (because I know you read my posts) if you draft a great talent, just leave him alone, stop trying to reinvent the wheel with these guys.
“But the Mets say they’re better off at the lower level than most talent evaluators think, and they are about to flood their system with prospects groomed through their new academy in the Dominican Republic.”
I feel like I’ve been hearing this forever.
yeah, put that under the believe it when i see it file.
jose reyes was one of those guys
one, we need more than one.. and the point is they keep saying we have all this talent in the lower levels, and all these players about to flood our farm system, but it has yet to happen.
Well, Reyes didn’t come from the Met academy, that wa only finished last year.
The benefits of that academy will take a little time to generate, because we’re talking about running guys through there at a very young age.
Which is why it doesn’t make sense that they seem to be relying so heavily on it and the international signings.
Not only are these guys going to take longer to contribute, you’re basically asking your scouts to project how good they’ll be in 4-6 years. And considering most of those kids, as far as I know, are in their early/mid teens, you don’t even know what kind of changes they’ll go through physically.
Yeah but on the plus side you get kids coming into your minor league system who have been professionally trained from very young ages.
I imagine the Mets acadamy has a few more resources to train players than little league does.
“who have been professionally trained from very young ages.”
I know it’s completely unrelated to your point but I keep imaging these Stepford wife like players. Who have perfect mechanics but are really really creepy.
But either way I agree it has it’s pluses and minuses. I just don’t think it’s smart for the front office to rely on it as heavily as they seem to being doing for the future of our franchise.
The Academy in the dominican is relatively new. It couldn’t be more than 4 years old but that academy is going to churn out a ton of talent. Remember Jose Reyes and Pedro Martinez workout and visit the Academy every offseason so the best domimican born players know where to go to be discovered.
There will be certain controversy if the Mets start churning out all star players. It’s best if they go very slow.
Kinda like the Tom Emanski videos?
LOL.
Except that the kids play baseball year round and are under tremendous pressure to succeed for their families sake. These kids start very young about 12 if I remember correctly. So the first class should be about 15-16 years old. I couldn’t imagine what one of those kids would feel if they didn’t get a MLB contract.
So basically they’re still 5-6 years away?
ay dios mio.
Cool–it’s like the Mets’ version of Hogwarts…
There will be certain controversy if the Mets start churning out all star players. It’s best if they go very slow.
Huh? Why would churning out all-stars create any controversy at all?
The controversy comes from Omar having had 3 years to work the international market and there are currently no great prospects at even the mid-levels of the farm system to show for it.
By this time I think you would expect at least 1-2 good prospects at the high A level.
Drafting real young kids may give an organization more time to mold them, but these kids are also further away from being major league ready and hence much harder to project and a lot riskier.. The Mets shouldn’t neglect the amateur draft in lieu of international talent because of these risks.
What’s troubling is how bad the St. Lucie team is right now. This might indicate a failure in both drafting and mining the international talent. Double trouble.
Correction — Meant to say except for F-Mart.
Also Reyes and Wright came in under Steve Phillips’ watch.
Ruben Tejada and Ezequiel Carrera are both good prospects at Hi-A from our IFA classes. They’re both struggling, granted, but they’re still solid prospects with terrific tools.
They were both just signed this year though right? I know Tejada is, and as far as I can tell they’re only in Hi-A because we’re rushing them like we seem to do with all our prospects.
They were both signed in 2006.
How do you define “good” prospects. Neither has done much in the minor leagues. Has either been anointed a top prospect by BA?
They’ve been mentioned as some of the Mets better prospects by Sickels and BA. Neither are elite prospects, by any stretch, but they have been recognized as solid prospects. Jose Reyes, coming from a similar background, wasn’t considered an elite prospect until he had spent a few seasons in the system.
I’ll add that I know our farm system is one of the weaker ones in the game, so simple recognition isn’t saying a great deal.
The Mets need to start becoming the Arizona Diamondbacks is some respects. The Mets need to start drafting guys that can make an impact in a couple of years or maybe even pull a Joe Smith. These small-market team are building around players who didn’t spend a lot of time in the minors. The Mets should still mix young players with veterans, but you can’t have those veterans playing power positions (leftfield) or a position like second base.
i swear to god if the mets don’t break slot and let a better player drop….im going to go nuts…that to me is a greater crime than the ‘07 collapse….
breaking slot only makes sense if a player is can’t miss. since i doubt any of us have seen many or any of these prospects play, we (I) really have no grounds for an opinion on the matter.
In all fairness, to nomoredelgado’s point, they have broken slot when there was elite level talent available…Examples are Mike Pelfrey (top pitcher in the 2005 draft, 9th overall pick), and he-who-should-not-be-named himself, Scott Kazmir (best HS arm in the 2002 draft, picked at 15)
Has anybody looked at how the Mets picks from 2007 are doing this year? It’s remarkably wretched. Kunz is passable at AA. Everybody else is stinking. Gotta do better this year, especially with the multiple 1st rounders
I guess that’s what happens when you pick 30 average relief pitchers.
Dillon Gee has been solid. Dylan Owen has been very good in A+.
Rustich could be the gem of the draft but has only recently seen action after working through shoulder issues.
Nathan Vineyard was nursing an injury, pitched through it, and made it worse- he’s now out of action.
Niesen and Moviel were project picks, so it’s no surprise that they’ve struggled early on (particularly Moviel, who is huge and has trouble repeating his delivery).
Leduc and Lutz are in SS ball, so how could anyone knock what they’ve done? Lutz suffered a serious injury at the end of last season, FWIW.
Duda is having reasonable success in Hi-A. The Mets have completely retooled his swing in an effort to add power.
What is my point here? It’s absolutely ridiculous to evaluate a draft less than a year after the fact. Will it wind up being an excellent draft? Doubtful. Mediocre? Likely. But to call it “wretched” is extremely shortsighted.
I agree. We shouldn’t enter drafts thinking how they will help in September or a season or two from now. This team is in desperate need of a five year plan. Get good talent on the farm and let them learn to play and win together.
Of course it is too early to be definitive. Anything may happen. But the early returns don’t look good and I think it should be at least a little distressing. If anybody wants to lay some money down in support of this draft, with payment due in four years, I’d be just a little tempted to take them up on it.
Posted a comment on this article in an earlier thread, but obviously its more relevant here:
If you needed any more evidence that Bob Klapish is a moron, see the following excerpts from his article:
Since 2005, the Mets have done relatively well, having drafted current major leaguers Mike Pelfrey and Joe Smith; evolving prospect Fernando Martinez, who will inherit left field from Moises Alou in 2009; and John Niese and Eddie Kunz, among others.
From the same article: “Martinez, <b)who was our No. 1 pick last year, is at [Double-A],” the GM said.
Of course ‘ol Bobby also mentioned the Mets activity in International Free Agency, yet forget that F-Mart was Omar’s first, and best signing.
For all the flak that the print media throws at bloggers for writing whatever they want, I highly doubt any Met blogger would goof on this level, especially considering Klapish covers the NY teams.
yeah that’s pretty bogus.
I noted that discrepancy in the comments section of that article on ESPN.
Yea I saw that..I kinda grazed thru the article, and didn’t notice the mistake till you called it out in the comment board
If you spend all day noting discrepancies in the comments sections of ESPN articles, you’ll probably lose your mind.
And get no corrections.
Please, just on principle, next time you call a guy a moron, at least spell his name right
Those silent c’s were always a B
Hmm..let me clarify…Those silent C’s were always a mother
He always has factual errors in his articles. I don’t understand how someone who professes to cover NY baseball can be so clueless sometimes about it.
He’s a terribly sloppy journalist.
I used to get upset about the breaking the slot thing but now I just think it’s an excuse. The problem isn’t us not breaking the slot, it’s apparently being mediocre at scouting and developing these players. Like someone mentioned above me we payed above the slot for Pelfrey, how’s that working out now? Paying above the slot isn’t going to fix all of our problems.
It’s too early to tell. Pelfrey’s still a long way away.
He should have another year in AAA.
Probably not going to happen, but that’s really what he needs. He’s what, 24?
24 really isn’t that young.
please elaborate on this thesis
24 isn’t old by any stretch, but considering he was drafted in 2002, it is a bit troubling that he hasn’t progressed as hoped. I agree with above poster that he needs a full year in AAA, but disagree that it’s too early to tell: anything can happen, certainly, but his 1.73 WHIP over 143 ML IP doesn’t bode well for projecting his future.
I mean there are pitches around the league his age and younger who seemed to have progressed a lot further. Some with less minor league time than him, and some who didn’t pitch in college.
Edinson Vólquez
Matt Cain
Scott Kazmir
Tim Lincecum
Chad Billingsley
Jon Lester
Edwin Jackson
Aaron Laffey
Cole Hamels
I can go on. I mean it is young, but it’s not young as in he has years of development ahead of him. Which is what Dafatone80 seems to be implying.
Thank you Gina, context appreciated.
Pelfrey was drafted in 05.
A pitcher prime years are 27-33. So a 24 year old pitcher has 3 years to develop.
I certainly have no statistical analysis to back this up and I could be very, very wrong, but my personal feeling regarding professional pitchers is I want them as far removed as possible from pitching to hitters who use aluminum bats, therefore I’m predisposed toward the drafting of high school pitchers so as to start the aluminum bat weaning earlier while also allowing more time for minor league experience/instruction before they become ‘too old.’ You’ve piqued my curiosity and I’m going to investigate those names you mentioned as well as some others to see whether they attended college at all (and if so, for how long) to test my amateur theory.
I think almost all of them were drafted out of high school, because all but Linecum were drafted in like 2002 or 2003.
Interestingly enough, all of the pitchers you compare Pelfrey’s development too (except Lincecum) began their professional careers at the ages of 18 or 19, and all of them (except Lincecum) had significantly more minor league innings logged before reaching the majors than Pelfrey. Pelfrey seems to have suffered (as a pitcher) from pitching in college instead of the minors, and seems to need more minor league innings.
So then the fact that we apparently target college pitchers probably isn’t a good thing?
Well I certainly have an open mind to the possibility that a wider survey might reveal different results, but based on this little exercise I would agree that it’s not a good thing to target college pitchers (unless they go by the name Lincecum).
My mistake on Pelfrey’s draft year. He was a DAF by TB in 2002, but yes, we took him in 2005. Sorry.
Dear Wilpons:
I keep asking this, and you repeatedly ignore my request.
On draft day, please hire Jerry Riese as your special ‘consultant’. Make Omar fetch Starbucks.
Thank you,
Danny1986
Fully agree. Jerry Reese could pick the most talent players in any sport. The man has a gift.
damn, you beat me to it, I was gonna post the same thing!
The best available players?! You mean the policy of drafting the worst available players didn’t work? What is Steve Chilcott up to?
18th pick: Shooter Hunt- RHP Tulane. Cross your fingers he’ll slip to us, this kid is legit.
lineup from john delcos’ blog
SS Jose Reyes
2B Luis Castillo
3B David Wright
CF Carlos Beltran
RF Ryan Church
LF Fernando Tatis
1B Carlos Delgado
C Ramon Castro
LH Oliver Perez
I’d draft the guy just because he’s named Shooter Hunt
on the subject of slotting…how can a team negotiate a contract with a player BEFORE the draft happens? i’m probably missing something, but still
They don’t, but from what I understand it’s assumed the better players are going to ask for certain signing bonus’s making them unsignable for smaller revenue teams. Or if teams know the agent they’re working with they can probably ballpark what they’re going to ask for.
utley hits another home run.
All thanks to Citizens Bank Park
That guy is bordering on scary at this point
Test him.
I think the Mets rushed Pelfrey, Humber and even Carlos Gomez to a point, among others. Also Eddie Kunz started this season in AA, which is very tough. He hasn’t been exactly great there and he pitched poorly in winter ball. He should’ve been in low A or high A. Our international signings are usually 16-18 year olds and they are years away. None of them, except for Fernando Martinez have had any real impact in our system. I’m excited too see how Wilmer Flores, the 16 year old we signed last year comes along. I assume he will be in Kingsport or Brookllyn when those seasons start. I know we also signed the top rated teen pitcher, a lefty, from Latin America. They need to take the best availabe players this year no matter which position.
whatever happened to Tony Pena’s kid? I remember there being a lot of hoopla when we signed him a few years ago, but haven’t really heard anything about him since then. If anyone follows the minor league system knows what his deal is, I’d appreciate it.
He’s in A-ball in Ga. He’s a good catcher but he hasn’t proven he can hit yet.
Hopefully repeating a year in Savannah will help him …
good to know. It’d be pretty spectacular if he could develop into anything near the level of player his dad was (5 time All-Star), especially with the paucity of good catchers around the league these days. I looked him up and see he’s only 18, so he still has plenty of time to develop into a decent hitter.
Yeah they put him at way to high a level last year and he’s repeating.
Humber wasn’t really rushed- it was a shame he got injured because who knows how he might’ve turned out.
I think he was kind of rushed in the since they were moving him up and down through levels while trying to completely rework his mechanics and teach him knew pitches. That’s a lot of stress.
Omar’s been great but he’s traded away every young pitcher we have. I see Bannister starting to have a decent career on a horrible Royals team and i don’t dare watch a Tampa game just in case Kazmir’s on the mound (damn u steve philips!) and heath bell of all people becoming this dominant set up man in SanDiego. This draft is going to be very important in deciding if the future Mets teams of Jose Reyes and David Wright are winning championships or not.
you start the post by saying Omar’s traded away every young pitcher, then in the second sentence damn Steve Phillips for trading Kazmir….even beside the fact that it was Duquette, not Phillips, who traded Kazmir, do you see the inconsistency of your post?
Heath Bell wasn’t young. And most of the pitchers, and other prospects, Omar has traded weren’t special or anything. The problem isn’t trades it’s that the talent isn’t there to begin with.
why is church playing tonight? do they want this guy to get seriously injured??
probably because he was 3-4 with a homer last night?
Church should not be in the lineup…he looks like a zombie right now when he walks around…like hes possessed or something
Unlike football or basketball, drafting of amateur baseball players is a crapshoot. We’ve seen many #1 picks turn out to be bustsand not even make it to the makors. On the other hand their are guys like Keith Hernandez and Mike Piazza who are lucky to be picked and yet turn out to be all stars.
I’m just saying the mets have been a tad cavalier in dealing their young talent and sorry if i got the wrong gm and the main point of what I was saying was the Mets might be in trouble if they don’t get it done soon in a strengthening NL