|
|
|
Prior to last night’s game, Willie Randolph told reporters that Pedro Martinez will be allowed to throw between 90 and 100 pitches in his start against the Giants tonight.
I keep hearing a lot about expectations for Martinez. Some people expect him to throw six innings, some expect him to do this or that – frankly, I expect him to stay healthy, and be some one this team can rely on game in and game out.
The Mets are 15–7 in games when Maine and Santana are the day’s starting pitcher, meaning they are 13–21 when some else takes the ball.
Given the way Oliver Perez pitched last night, and the way he has pitched in the last month, the Mets, who are struggling to stay above .500, need another stable starting pitcher. They need another guy, besides Johan Santana and John Maine, who can take the ball and be counted on to deliver a stable, reliable, strong outing.
Pedro can be that guy…as long as he’s healthy.
I forget who brought up this a few weeks ago (maybe Gammons or Olney) but they said they thought it would be smart to package a bunch of players to the Jays in exchange for A.J. Burnett and possibly even Alex Rios.
That is the type of deal that is sounding better every day.
what players?
I believe it was for Beltran.
I think Beltran was the player that would be needed to get Rios. I just want Burnett.
I’d think Heilman, maybe one of Evans/Murphy/Carp and another prospect would work. Maybe 2 prospects.
Jays will probably be selling by July.
For who Nick Evans?
They have nobody to package…Heilman has killed most of his value. If this team continues to stay around the .500 mark (give or take a couple of games) and a trade is needed at the deadline, it is going to be VERY tough to pull off. Every team will ask for Niese and Fernando and the Mets can’t afford to part with either of them.
Also why would the blue jays trade two big contributors when they’re right in the race.
Rios just signed a 6 year extension for like $75 million. He’s 26 or 27. He’s not going anywhere.
Burnett, howevver, may very well go somewhere else. I think he’s a lock to opt-out after 2008. I know he’s always hurt, but the guy is a K machine, and when he’s on, he’s unhittable. Besides, he’s probably underpaid at $11 million per year, when bums like Gil Meche make the same amount.
I’ll be happy if he gets to the mound with no injuries.
Santana
Maine
Pedro
Vargas
Ron Darling (as long as it’s not Pelfrey or Perez, I could care less)
Santana
Maine
Pedro
Vargas
Anthony Young (as long as it’s not Pelfrey or Perez, I could care less)
Thats a great stat, 15-7 when Maine and Johan start. If we should just go .500 when the other mopes start we would be in first place.
*could* not should
Makes you appreciate John Maine even more. He’s become the most likeable Met. Never met anyone who doesn’t like Maine!
Just wait a while (or until his next shaky start)….they always pop their head up when their opinions don’t look foolish
Ollie and Maine were basically the same pitcher last year. Perez was actually a little more consistent and productive by most measures, but it was really close.
But now, Maine has gone one way and Ollie has gone the other way.
Maine’s stuff has gotten significantly somehow. It’s a neat development.
significantly better*
Maine really showed up toward the end of the year. I hope that’s his style going forward. With him and Santana turning it up a notch in the second half, we could make a serious run. Add a healthy Pedro (I actually have no idea if Pedro will be solid or not, I just like saying “Pedro Martinez” along with “Mets starting rotation) and our normal starting line-up and consistent hitting from Beltran and Reyes, there’s really not a lot this team can’t pull off. It would be a matter of simply keeping their heads in the game. I supposed this is my best case scenario wish list.
I’d never root against the Mets but a small part of me is laughing at Oliver Perez for not taking that contract offer last summer. I’m laughing at him for thinking he could actually step it up in a contract season and get himself paid handsomely. You guys are wrong in suggesting that “no one would trade for him.” Fortunately MLB General Managers don’t draw brash conclusions from a 3 game stretch like Mets fans do. That being said I’ve never, ever seen a bigger Jekyll and Hyde than Mr. Perez. I mean when he’s on his stuff is just nasty. He has no mental stamina and loses confidence quicker than a 5 year old would. I understand it was under Mr. Boras’ influence that Oliver turned down that deal, but he probably intended on coming out this season and earning himself a massive paycheck. And for that I laugh at him because it’s pretty clear it’s in his head each and every time he takes the mound. Him being our #3 / #4 starter was the key to this rotation being so deep. Now with Pedro on and off the DL, the Pelfreys and Vargases are who we are counting on. Unless this offense stays hot, which is a definite possibility, the pitching really might not turn out as eveyone predicted (deepest rotation in the bigs!! yea right). And forget about the bullpen.
expecting Pedro to stay healthy is like expecting Alou to stay healthy, or Delgado to hit lefties, or Heilman to not allow all the inherited runners to score.
One happens once in a while, like Heilman getting out of the jam last night… but for the most part its foolish to expect it on a regular basis.
It’s even more foolish to be relying on it.
So it’s foolish to hope for a few good starts from one of the greats? Sure Sheadro has had some injury problems in the last few seasons but it’s all part of the process with these veteran pitchers. He’ll be fine.
Frankly, i’m tired of bums like Smoltz and company getting a pass on this. Smoltz has been injured and got sent to the bullpen but he is still lauded as one of the best. Sheadro could easily go to the pen and dominate. Let the guy pitch before you keep squaking.
no, a few would be what we could reasonable expect before he gets hurt again.
expecting him to stay in a normal rotation and go through to the end of the year would be silly.
Santana
Maine
Pedro
Vargas
Val Pascucci??
All the bloggers on this site is a reason for Val Pascucci to be on the major league roster.
I don’t know if Val Pascucci is a cousin or has pictures of Cerrone and Regis in Cancun with high school girls but Val has the love of the bloggers on here.
wait a minute. pedro is pitching today?! from what i gathered from the newspapers, some guy named joba? is pitching today, i dont know, never herd of him. is he the 3 time cy young award winner thats returning today. no wait he’s the nobody who got front and back covers.
ny media needs to get their coverage right. pedro needs to show them whats good.
Amen.
Good Lord I hope Jah-bah gets destroyed tonight, too bad the Blue Jays lineup is, for the most part, punchless.
I hope he dislocates his shoulder during one of his fist pumps
Isn’t he matched up against Halladay? If so, he should be in line for his first major league loss as a starter. Welcome to the starting rotation Jaa baa. I still don’t understand how there is so much hype surrounding someone who has not even thrown 50 major league innings. Roy Halladay has thrown 50 innings in his last 6 starts…haha.
Yea, Doc goes tonight. I love that guy.
Jah-bah is just another one in a long line of overhyped Yankee prospects. It’s gonna be funny if he strikes out someone in the first inning, and he does his fist pump and screams like a nut on the mound.
ahhhh Halladay, now it all makes sense. Are you ready for the yankee fan logic for tomorrow morning.
If Joba wins : Oh man, yo, first start and he beats Halladay! Joba is sick! Jaahhh Bahhhhh!
If Joba loses : Hey, come on guys, give the kid a break. It was his first major league start and he was facing Halladay.
If only Halladay and his 13 or so pitches per inning were a Met…
What a shame that one of the best pitchers around is wasting away north of the border.
I freaking love Doc. The guy is a true throwback and a great, great pitcher. Forget Peavy and Verlander and even Webb. This is the guy who I’d take on my team before any other pitcher except Johan.
Look I think any reasonable baseball fan would understand why Joba is on the back pages today and Pedro is not. What’s the big story you want? “For the 17th time in the last 3 years, Pedro Martinez looks to give the Mets a ’shot in the arm’ as he comes off the DL” objectively speaking it’s obvious Joba is an unbelievable arm and his first career MLB start tonight should be getting all the press. Unless you are a homer, of course
and one more thing, what’s with this “shot in the arm” talk with pedro. Every time he comes back he’s supposed to rejuvenate this team. What is he give them lap dances to salsa music before the game? Or is the outstanding 5 inning 3 earned run contribution he does on the field. I like the guy, he’s always smiling and laughing but cmon his “presence” isn’t going to give this team any W’s – his pitching will if he’s on his game and doesn’t hurt himself.
And lastly I’d like to complain about New Yorkers, and their hypocrisy. We all bitch and moan about the papers, they sensationalize this and that yet the whole Mets-Yankees thing is so media driven it’s pathetic how fans of both teams cling on. This is no rivalry. I don’t like the Yankees but it has more to do with their standing as a corporation moreso than a baseball team. But there’s no rivalry here. I’d much rather get pounded by the Yankees, hear it from all my friends, and then go on and sweep the Braves and Phils. I get it, they’re both New York teams, only a few miles away, etc. But they’re in different leagues and I just don’t get all the Yankee hate. I like to watch Joba pitch because he is an incredible talent (any clear headed Mets fan would die to have this guy on the team) and am curious to see what he does next. Enough with all the brainless “Yankees suck” BS and grow up. You complain about the papers and then you take their cue and pretend that the Yankees and Mets are enemies.
Thanks for the sanctimony, seriously. Speak for yourself, I hate the freaking Yankees for a myriad of reasons, and I love it when my Mets beat them. It gives me a great sense of satisfaction. It’s got nothing to do with what the back of the Post says about the Subway Series. I have hated this team long before interleague play began.
And why the hell are you knocking Pedro? 3-1 with a 2.56 ERA down the stretch not good enough for you? He’s one of the few Mets that is blameless in the September meltdown. 5 IP 3 ER translated to a 5.40 ERA, so you’re off on that one chief.
And I wouldn’t kill to have Joba on my team. As I said earlier, he’s just another one of many overhyped Yankee prospects, who will undoubtedly not be nearly as effective as a starter as he was in his previous role. That and he’s a huge injury risk, which is why he slipped in the draft. Oh, and he’s a big dope who he pumps his fist after every strikeout. Let’s see how well that goes over with the rest of the AL once balls start flying at Jeter and A-Rod.
I’m not knocking Pedro. I’m just saying his mere presence doesn’t do squat for this team. I never blamed him for the collapse either. And I didn’t mean to group every Mets fan into the ‘we hate the Yanks’ BS but you can’t deny it’s just plain ridiculous. It’s excessive. Were you happy with what took place 2 weeks ago? We thoroughly thrashed the Yanks for 2 games and then went on to lose 4 in Atlanta. I’d take heat from my Yankee fan friends any second of the day for beating the Mets if it means they could sweep Atlanta. (unless we’re talking 2000 WS)
As far as Joba, you’re just calling him “overrated” because he’s a Yankee. There’s nothing overrated about his disgusting stuff and 100 mph heat. I’m not saying he’s a lock to be a great starter. I think his place is in the pen and as this team’s closer for the next 15 years. To assume he can duplicate his stuff as a starting pitcher is foolish. But he looks damn good in the pen and would love it if the Mets had him, instead of, oh let’s just say every single prospect this team has right now.
He’s calling him overrated because he is hailed as a rockstar when he pitches for 1 freaking inning.
His 100mph heat is amazing…mind if u show me it?? even the juiced up guns at yankee stadium don’t show him throwing that.
Prove urself as a starter, than you will stop being called overated.
Unproven, sure. Overrated? He hit 100 on the gun repeatedly last year. This year he’s hitting 98 and 99. The point isn’t how fast he pitches (anything 95+ is absurd). The point is that you guys are calling him overrated when all he’s done since getting the call is DOMINATE major league hitters. 1 -2 innings at a time, sure. He’s never done it as a starter, right. Thanks for that. But if you’re denying that the kid has special talent and hasn’t been a superb, above average major league reliever since getting called up to the bigs, you are just spewing out a biased “I hate the Yankees” trash. Cause I’d take him over any arm the Mets have and I’d trade anyone aside from Santana for him.
wow, well i hope you enjoy the yankee game tonight. i’ll be tuned into sny for coverage of METS baseball.
Thank you Uncle Pauly.
I didn’t deny his skills, I’m sick of people calling him the greatest thing since sliced bread because he’s pitched like 100 innings at the major league level, if that many. He looked good in the pen, yes, but that’s not in his future, so, as a starting pitcher, I’d definitely say he qualifies as overrated.
And yes, obviously I would trade 2 wins against the Yankees for 4 wins against the Braves. That said, as I said in a thread from another day, the Braves have shown me that a) they are an atrocious road team b) their SP leaves a lot to me desired and c) they play harder and better against the Mets than any other team in the NL. So, in other words, I don’t care if the Braves play out of their minds against us this year and win the season series 12-6, because they are going to keeping dropping 2 of 3 and 3 of 4 every road series. Case in point – Cincinnati beating them 2 out of 3 this weekend.
This is petty.
I don’t think the Mets will ever get the respect the Yankees do on the back pages.
After last night, is anyone else wondering about the possibility of taking Perez out of the rotation and trying a Santana, Martinez, Maine, Vargas, Pelfrey rotation?
Yes, see the previous thread and I hope you are right
I like the idea..Vargas has kept the Mets in every game he pitched, even when he was not on. He is not great, but has proven he is a serviceable 4th/5th starter. Pelfrey has shown glimpses and been the victim of errors/poor run support. Perez has shown nothing. I think if he has one more blow up, this has to be considered.
I don’t even know if one more blow-up is necessary. Perez has to go if this team expects to win.
Good thought, but no. Vargas (especially after last night) is a good flexible pitcher. He will serve well as the long man, go to bullpen person. Now we take him out and put OP in the pen.. works for me until OP gives up four walks and then a salami. I think OP in the pen would allow him way too much time to think and screw up. Unless you meant take OP out and either demote him or put him to sleep then I’ll go with that
I am so tired to being on the wrong side of the trading block. All we ever hear about is how we will need to trade our best five prospects in order to obtain (insert over the hill slightly below average veteran starter here).
Lets cash in on this trade market and trade Oliver Perez for some prospects. It is obvious that he will not be resigned at the end of the season- no one this inconsistent is it worth it. Obviously he will go at a discount since he is only a rental, but he isn’t providing the current team with anything. If anything, he is putting us at a disadvantage. I would rather have Vargas in the rotation.
Let’s ditch Perez, take a chance on some prospects, and leave it at that. Let someone else deal with Ollie, Boras, and the headaches that go along with both of them.
only problem with this theory is that teams looking for “rentals” usually want someone who can help the team win that year. Not someone who you can’t trust or have any idea what you are getting from start to start.
Come the trade deadline, borderline teams start to panic. That’s when we can unload Ollie for maximum value (whatever that turns out to be). Only problem is we’re probably gonna be one of those borderline teams, and as such, less likely to want to trade Perez…
Plus the Mets never sell. They only buy.
That might have worked last off-season, now not so much.
I have absolutely no idea what to expect tonight. Pedro could throw a no-hitter or his arm could fall off and neither would surprise me at all.
Any word on el Duque?
you need to hand your membership to this blog in and find some place else to talk sports. Please on behalf of all met fans, never ask about that old man again.
Haha…
VelvetFoot: “Matt, I apologize for discussing El Duque, I’m here to hand in my Metsblog membership.”
Cerrone: “GET THE HELL OUT OF MY OFFICE, DON’T LET ME SEE YOUR FACE AROUND HERE AGAIN. GET THE HELL OFF MY BLOG!”
there is no seniors league.
You know you’re in trouble when you’re wondering when El Duque is coming back.
Pedro Who??
You can’t deny that Pedro is saying all the right things. IMO, if he get’s hurt again, he may pack it in.
I hope not, I think he is a warrior and proud to have him on my team. Best wishes tonight.
Also, Willie seems to be making adjustments in his coaching style that are paying off. I have to give him props after killing him lately.
I’m tired of having to rely on Ollie – I’ve defended him in the past because he was a fave, but he’s shown he can’t be relied upon.
I hope the same does not turn out to be true (this year at least) for Pedro. We just need him healthy and the rest will work itself out, I believe. He’s an all-time great, and if he is healthy (which is, I guess, a sizeable “if”), he will pitch well.
If this team wants to win, it looks like something will have to be done with Perez. Despite his poor performance, I’m sure some teams (think Yanks, others) desperate for pitching help will take a chance that a change of pitching coach and scenery could help Perez. He obviously has the stuff and the talent, but his head is not all there, it seems.
I think something can be had for Perez and/or Heilman (perhaps even Pelfrey), but at this point it probably won’t be much.
Blah-Blah Chamberlain
Pedro will win.
I’m having trouble with the Pelfrey over Vargas move
I’d rather try and get something for Perez if I could. Draft picks are too risky
Wouldn’t be better to buy low/sell high?
Hey Matt…can we get an El Duque update…haven’t heard anything on him…we could really use his veteran presence in the rotation…Livan would have been real nice too on a two year deal…Also what do people see the team doing in the offseason…It’s obviously really early, but the Mets will have about 50 million coming off the books (Delgado, Pedro, Alou, Perez) and really three rotation spots to fill along with First base and Left field. What do people think will happen?
Duque hasnt pitched in a minor league game since the first week of april. He is all but officially retired.
If they let Pedro and Perez and Duque go…they will likely resign Vargas to a reasonsable deal and will have Pelfrey in the system. Nothing wrong with getting one more big time guy in the rotation and going with Santana, Maine, Big Guy, Vargas and Pelfrey with filler at AAA…..
The bigger issues to me are how we do we get a 1b with punch and do we spend on a new Lf or do we simply give the job to one of the kids (Evans, Fmart, Murphy?)
Considering how weak the 1B market and OF market is and how deep the pitching market is, I would find some stop gaps for another year in LF and 1B and then invest as much money as possible in pitching. Go get CC and Garland. That should still leave enough money to get a couple of 1 year guys like Ibanez or make a trade for Nady.
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Church, Nady, Ibanez, Schnieder/Castro
Santana, Maine, CC, Garland, Pelfrey/Vargas
That would work and then the next season hopefully one of the FMart, Carp, Murphy, Evans works out to take a spot.
What is so wrong with relying on Sheadro? The yanks rely on unproven guys like hughes and kennedy who consistantly get killed. We rely on a proven vet and good old espn destroys us.
Seriously. Pedro pitched great last year down the stretch. I don’t see why we can’t expect similar numbers from him from June till the end of the regular season.
However, I hate ESPN, as it employs idiot pinheads like Stuart Scott, John Kruk, John Clayton, and Chris Mortensen. Go away.
Because he’s a strong gust of wind away from an injury? Relying on young pitchers is common place around the league, but it’s not very smart for a franchise to rely as heavily as we did on El Duque and Pedro.
40 or 50 million?
not enough.
Mets need to add 25 more to that and go after some talent. Matt Holiday is my first choice and he can be had in the right deal. give him 20 million for 7 years.
Martinez/Pelfrey and Heilman would be the package I’d offer.
throw another 20 million per at Tex. that’s 40. with the other 35 go after some pitching.
Wow, that’s some interesting stuff right there.
If I’m the Rockies, I’d laugh at that offer.
Update: El Duque did not hurt himself today.
Pelf should be the long man. He’d be coming into games that are already blowouts. That would be a good role for him now. Vargas has completely out-pitched Mikey.
I agree. Pelfrey doesn’t belong in the rotation. Vargas does.
neither does Perez
A couple of interesting issues:
1. Mets pitchers give up a lot of first inning runs….and Maine, Ollie, Heilman, all young guys have regressed…Maybe Peterson is the problem….Maybe Willie needs Leo Mauzonne
2. Anyway to find out what the Mets ERA is with Schneider vs. Castro/Cassanova….I know last year there was a great disparity when Lo Duca was catching
“The Jacket” is worn out, as far as I’m concerned. Useless. If the Mets miss the playoffs and Randolph gets axed, I hope Peterson gets bounced too. The “I can fix him in 10 minutes” statement will always make my blood boil.
The theory that maybe Perez is injured might very well be true, but if he is 100% healthy, then earn your money and fix this guy Peterson.
Maine has regressed??
I would guess that Castro has a far better catchers ERA than Schneider since he has come of the DL. (maybe until last night)
when Schneider was in the hospital we heard how a lot of the pitchers ERA’s were lower when he was in there, but since he came back those pitchers (Perez and Pelfrey) have bombed with both catchers back there.
has Casanova even caught any innings this year? Does he even have Mets catchers gear?
Didn’t Cassanova have to start for like 2 weeks or something?
But vargus can be a long man out of teh pen, and you don’t want to mess with a prospect like pelfrey
“and you don’t want to mess with a prospect like pelfrey”
Which is why Pelfrey should probably be in AAA
Pelfrey is not a prospect
I still think, in the long run, it would be in his and our best interests to send him back down.
i think he should get the full year in the bigs instead of messing with him over and over again…let him pitch a full year before moving him to the pen
I disagree. I think he should get a full year in the minors. You always hear players saying that the difference between the majors and the minors is that in the majors, the game moves so fast.
I always took their word for it, figuring you had to be in it to really get it. But watching Pelfrey, it really seems like the game moves too fast for him.
Of course people will cite his last outing and jump all over me. But it really seems to have his head spinning, and that’s why i think he’d benefit from doing some more learning on the minor league level.
I’ve been waiting for this night for far too long. Go get em tiger.
Matt-
Actually I believe they are 15-8 when Santana and Maine pitch but most of that is due to Santana. The Mets are 9 – 3 when Santana pitches and only 6 – 5 when Maine pitches. I’m still a big John Maine fan but (as I mentioned at nymetskorner) he is not having as good a year as he had last year.
After 11 games last year the Mets had won 8 and lost only 3. This year his era after 11 starts is 3.66, last year it was 2.81.
…and, the team has lost his last three strarts while he’s given up 12 runs (11 earned).
And how terrible was Maine’s second half last year? Wasn’t his ERA over a 5? I’d bet it’s a lot lower this time around, bringing his end of the year totals better than last years.
That’s true. Maine was hurt towards the end of last year plus he pitched 191 innings which was his highest total. Previously he had reached 168 with Baltimore and Ottawa in 2005. So hopefully he will finish stronger than last year.
First we’ll use Santana
then we’ll use Maine
Then an off day
followed by rain
Back will come Santana
followed by Maine
And followed
we hope
by two days of rain.
Haha, Lincecum and Cain aren’t the only two names for that rhyme
pedro is the best pitcher of all-time considering the steriod era and small ball park he’s had to deal with.
#1 adjusted era
#2 winning pct
#1 whip since 1917
that’s a great opening salvo for what would be a very heating argument. there have been many best of all time pitchers. I will say that I tend to agree with you, though.
Ever read Bill James’s entry on Tom Seaver in the Historical Baseball Abstract? He makes a great case that Seaver was the best pitcher of all time when you adjust for the low quality of the teams (run support, winning pct., etc.) behind him. I’d certainly like to see Seaver vs. Pedro in their primes.
It’s Lefty Grove.
Best ERA+ of any starting pitcher other than Pedro.
300 wins.
Led his league in strikeouts 7 straight years.
Put together a record somewhere in the vicinity of 130-30 over his best 6 years, beating out the Koufax “He was the best ever over a short stretch” argument.
Pedro’s up there too, of course.
El Duque was our best pitcher for most of last year.
Just throwing that out there…
Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro
breathe…ok
Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro Pedro
whew… that was exhausting.
Evan Roberts and Joe “The Brain” Benningo floated the trade of Heilman for Bill Hall. I would do that trade in a heartbeat. We know that Bill Hall can play all the OF positions, 3B, SS, and 2B. If he can play 3B and SS he could definitely play 1B. He also had a pretty good bat and speed.
only problem is hall wants to play regularly…he was willing to change positions to play more often…he wouldn’t want to be a bench guy that fills in at every position, either way, i would do that trade in a heartbeat as well
Bill Hall’s splits are insane this year — he’s killer against lefties but anemic and sad against righties. Not that I wouldn’t take him for Heilman, of course I would, but we might be able to find a better match either in a pkg or one-up.
I think Bill Hall could play 5 days a week on this team. With the combination of Alou, Castillo, Delgado that is a good amount of AB’s. On top of that Reyes, Wright, and Beltran are going to need a day off eventually.
Just what we need, a guy who can’t get past the Mendoza line against righties.
Maybe Konerko’s days in Ozzie Guilllen’s fantasy factory are numbered… He’s had some testy back n’ forth w/ his wacky skipper the last few days and there’s a lot of tension over there right5 now. What about one of those classic “change of scenery” trades, Delgado plus Heilman for Konerkpo and future considerations…?
I think Ozzie goes before Konerko
Actually, you’re prolly right there. The way Ozzie publicly blamed his GM for his team’s lack of punch was not smart career move
Nah, Konerko has an extra year left on his deal I believe…we can just buy out Delgado after 2008.
BTW I hear El Duque is having dinner tonight with Genralissimo Francisco Franco.
Why do teams announce when their starters have pitch counts?
All that tells the other team is to be patient and wear the guy out.
I repeat
martinez/Pelfrey and Heilman for Matt Holiday.