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[Poll=111]
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This one should be a no brainer.
I think the no-brainer is having another reliable starting pitcher.
Sorry, but a bat to replace Delgado is more important than a #4 starter I think.
More like a 3/4 starter. We don’t know how long Pedro will be healthy. I’d like to think he’ll play the rest of the season and the post-season but it would be foolish to rely on it.
But at the same time, we have pitchers who can keep us in games. Vargas did fine.
Realistically, we need both. But we don’t really have the talent to get it.
I think our lineup is the main painpoint to this team. Delgado is not producing – we need someone who can take his spot.
I agree I voted for the 1B/OF option. I just don’t think it’s a no brainer at all. We could use help their, in the starting line-up and in the bullpen.
I think the offense is the main point though. Vargas has given the Mets a jolt, and I think the Mets can milk 100 innings from Pedro. If Perez can just turn in an average performance, the rotation is fine as is.
I agree with TheIcon–pitching trumps hitting.
aaaaaand here come the comments about “needing” Val Pasc-whateverhisnameis….
no choice for “all of the above”?
Agreed, this team is missing a few pieces. The question is what do they have to give up?
Honestly, I know “they” say that he’s gonna be the real thing, but F-Mart’s numbers aren’t so impressive (outside of his 40 K’s in 150 AB’s, which is alarming).
We have to ask why he’s not really producing at AA , and when he can be expected to really be the “teenage hitting machine.” Is he worth waiting for, or do we trade him at the deadline (if we’re still in contention, no more than 5 games out) for something that can get us there right now?
I don’t pretend to know the answer, but I’m interested in hearing from others.
“We have to ask why he’s not really producing at AA , and”
because he’s 19 and in their infinite wisdom our front office decided the best way for him to develop is to rush him so he’s constantly playing above his head. Which worked so well for Milledge. And he was hitting much better before his injury.
Martinez statline for may in 11 games and 43 ab
avg .349
obp .370
slug .558
ops .928
2 hr
9 rbis
Championship banners fly forever. Prospects come and go.
That thought process is why we’re in this mess to begin.
That point with Milledge means nothing. Lastings was destined to be this type of player. If he stayed in the lower levels longer do you really think he’d be a better player? He’s a free swinging kid with amazing bad speed and a bad attitude.
I don’t know if he’d been a better player but I doubt it would have hurt. It’s just seems to me like the front office is to impatient with it comes to developing players.
My response is to Krumble. That type of thinking; if the mets are only 5 games out, was the thinking when the mets traded Kazmir. Please, we don’t want a repeat like that.
You have a point Gina – look at Gomez, I really think we hurt him by rushing him. He’ll probably never have the plate discipline to make him a top flight outfielder.
To napes22: maybe you’re right about that idiot Milledge, BUT I sure hope they traded him for baseball reasons & not because he was pulling an Anna Benson, so to speak, embarrassing them with that CD.
another reliable starter, but that’s because im still scarred from monday’s game
Assuming everyone comes back and is healthy, there is already going to be a log jam of bench players, so who goes if they do acquire a good platoon for Delgado/Alou?
M. Anderson
A.Pagan
J. Valentin
D. Easley
F. Tatis
E. Chavez
I dont think there is room to add another, because you already have 6 guys for 4 spots (not including your backup catcher)
Anderson is supposed to be out for a while isn’t?
marlon anderson is quite expendable.
I think you can check Valentin off of that list, and you’re either going to have Angel Pagan OR Fernando Tatis, not both.
I’d like to see: Castro, Chavez, Easley, Anderson and Tatis for now. With Endy in the fold Pagan isn’t a huge need. Tatis provides more power.
But anyways, you’re right. If we acquired someone else there is a bit of a jam there.
The problem is that all of those guys are pretty bad.
pardon the potential idoicy of this question, but is Tatis at all capable of fielding 1B? I see he’s played a few games there and as recently at 06.
If so, I’d roll with:
- Castro
- Easley
- Endy
- Tatis
- Valentin or Pagan
The RealSince1986 says:
I am a dork. but I think we need Xavier Nady. Or someone similar. Would rather an experience veteran with a solid bat.
oh, you again
I don’t know, unless the X-man can play 1B, I don’t think he’s going solve any problems.
1) Why would the Pirates move him? He’s their best player.
2) The Mets have nothing the Pirates want that they can afford to part with.
3) X can definitely play first, but he’s a stud defensive OF, so why would you want to play him there?
1) Jason Bay is their best player. Nady is having the better year though.
2) Possibly. Maybe the Pirates cave because they want Pierce to get a shot this year when they inevitably fall out of the race. Only time will tell.
3) I love The X-Man as much as the next guy, but “stud defensive OF?” Come on man, he was mediocre at best in RF in 2006.
Didn’t he lead the league in outfield assists?
Overrated statistic, like interceptions for a DB in football. I believe Manny led the league in OF assists recently a few years ago. Doesn’t mean anything.
In some cases it actually means that they don’t respect your arm and run on you more. That would be like judging a catcher based on runners thrown out instead of percentage thrown out.
soriano had a ton of assists last year, and he’s a butcher. even milledge has a great arm, but that doesn’t make him a great outfielder.
Nady has in fact played some 1B. Very little, but he has played it. Getting Nady though would be epensive and he would have to take over full time at 1B. We need someone who can hit lefties, and pray Delgado will fix up his righty numbers. We don’t have the farm to trade for a guy like Nady.
I don’t think anyone in the organization belives they are 1 piece away from being an elite team, and frankly the Mets don’t have a lot that will excite anyone. The price for a reliable starting pitcher will price them out of the market, when the only thing they can dangle is a small contract guy like Pagan and/or a beat-up Heilman (who I don’t see them moving anyway).
I would LOVE to see them try to move Alou to an AL team looking for a DH, but the most you can realistically expect back is some low level mediocre talent or a career minor leaguer.
Is there anyone even out there that would be an upgrade at 1B/OF to platoon with Delgado that’s better than Easley or Tatis?
no doubt in my mind the greatest need is another reliable starting pitcher, preferably a left hander… especially with ollie crashing and burning and going down for the last time… i never know what to expect from that guy from inning to inning let alone game to game. who knows what’s going to happen with el duque and it’s great to have pedro back but he’s not someone we should rely on too heavily. the way the team is currently structured, i think the best shot we have at outpacing the braves and catching the phils is by out pitching them. i know the consensus seems to be 1B and understand the frustration with Delgado, but i’m old school… you can never have enough pitching
The problem is there’s not a lot of reliable players available in our price range, if any, and trading for one would probably devastate our already devastated farm system.
no more trading prospects… take the field with what we got.
Could probably package Delgado, Tater, somebody like that for an Aug/Sep/Oct(!) rent-a-starter from somebody or another
I agree with this, but there is not much to be done at this point. I have felt all along that Minaya left this team one starter short. With the utter failure (to this point) of wise, you can say a reliever short as well.
If OP does not get it together, they have a problem. I think Pedro/El Duque may end up being a tandem that solidifies one spot, and I have no problem with Pelf/Vargas as a 5, but that leaves OP as a major issue with no real back up plan. I don’t want Vargas and Pelf in the rotation at the same time.
Lohse is looking pretty good right now, but I admit I was not on that bandwagon in the spring. It be Minaya’s absolute commitment to Duque in the spring that is their downfall.
I don’t think it was a committment this spring more than it was a well what do you do with him. He said he had no intentions of being a reliever and he was great starting when he was healthy. Again, Omar should expect more from Pelfrey and he has not given anything yet.
Well, assuming that the OF/1B bat to spell Alou and Delgado has some power, that takes care of 2 of the choices. Between the 3, whoever is not playing becomes the power bat off the bench (although that may be too generous to consider Delgado a power bat).
we need an “all of the above” and a REPLACEMENT at 1B, not a “bat to spell”. Alou is either good or on the DL, but Delgado is a disaster- and after 2 blissful games of Bill R., Clueless Wilie has returned to put the rally-killer in the lineup every day.
an interesting name that wants out of Milwaukee is Bill Hall. He’s hitting .400 against RHP (in limited at bats) and in 400 ABs over the past 3 years is hitting 300 with 20 HRs.
Sure he hasn’t played 1B, but how different can it be than 3rd?
sorry that should be against LHP
He wants out of Milwaukee because they want to platoon him, which is the same thing we’d do. He is an interesting name though, I wonder if they’ve been shopping him and how much they’d want for him.
At mlbtraderumors they have a list of starting pitchers who might be moved at the deadline if anyone’s interested. Since it pertains to this post.
We’ve got to get out in front of the Freddy Garcia sweepstakes if he proves to be healthy.
Frankly, if we could land him, i’d try to deal Ollie for some bench help to a contending team desperate for starting pitching. I’ve seen him mail in enough games for my liking – I don’t want to re-sign him. Someone is going to give him a stupid deal and it won’t be us.
Problem is with Garcia it looks like late August at the earliest for his return. That’s too late to bank on for sure.
We don’t need to bank on it but it wouldn’t hurt to have him as a back-up plan.
He’d be a nice to have for 2009 as well.
True assuming he is healthy Garcia taking the #5 spot would help out tremendously.
Here is a question however, at what point do we consider Pelfrey lost as a starter? I know he is still young and we could send him down but does anyone want to depend on him next season? With the amount of SP on the market in the offseason I really think it would be a mistake not coming back with 5 quality starters.
Clearly they see something we do not. He’s had some gems, I think he’s still learning. Personally, I think he’d look good in the 6th and 7th innings long term.
Pelfrey just finished throwing seven innings of two-run ball the other day. I would think that helps him stay. (Not sure I like that, but so what–maybe I’m wrong.)
I know its difficult to rely on Pedro and Duque to be healthy for the second half of the season, but we actually should be in pretty good shape as far as a five man rotation. I dont think rotation help is the biggest concern.
Johan-the ace of aces
Maine-a solid #2
Pedro-if healthy is more than enough as a #3
Ollie-will have his up and downs but if he can at least be a .500 pitcher
Duque/Pelfrey/Vargas-a healthy Duque could solidify the staff.
Thats a lot more options than most teams have.
“Thats a lot more options than most teams have.”
But how many of those teams do you expect to be in the play-offs at the end of the year? I know we have to get there first, but I’d like to think if we do get there we’ll at least put up a fight.
Well, IF healthy a post season rotation of Johan, Maine, Pedro, Ollie with Elduque waiting on any sign of blowup would not be a bad rotation at all.
But that’s a lot of ifs. If Pedro is healthy, if Ollie can find a medium between last year and this year, if El Duque is even still alive, didn’t someone mention he hasn’t pitched since April? What happened to him. I’d just like some insurance.
No doubt, but then you start to think about what you do with the extra players.
Do you send Pelfrey down? Do you send Perez down, try and trade him? What spot in the rotation do you want this new guy to take? Also the new guy has to be better than not only those guys but Vargas and Armas JR.
I think it’s in our and his best interest to send Pelfrey down, but right now I guess they don’t think they have that option.
I would like to see what Armas Jr. has to offer though. But they don’t seem inclined to bring him up.
At what point is starting still in the best interest for Pelfrey? Do you think sending him down is going to right him for next season?
I would expect possibly:
Phillies-not as good a rotation at all. They are all hitting
Cubs-not as good a rotation. I would not trust their back end of the rotation.
D-back-probably the best rotation in baseball
Red Sox-good rotation but i think the Mets are comparable
Anaheim-another good rotation but i dont think head and shoulders better than the mets.
I would expect St. Louis before the Phillies, if we get in. I think if we get in we’re going to have to win the division. I would say the Cubs is comparable as ours but that’s because I expect Lilly to improve and I don’t trust the back-end of our rotation either.
I wasn’t considering AL teams but as for the Red Sox I’d say they’re a step above ours when you factor in that Shilling is supposed to come back, who knows what to expect though, and that they have Buckholtz to call up if necessary. Then you also have the White Sox who’s rotation has had a resurgence.
I just think any insurance we can get for the rotation is going to be a major help. After Santana and Maine, I have a hard time trusting anyone. Pedro staying healthy would make a huge difference but I just have a hard time believing he will.
the blue jays have something to say about that “best rotation in baseball claim” as would boston. the sox just keep bringing up young studs who win games. this week, it’s masterson.
I forgot about them, as well as the Rays who have Kazmir and Shields and then two young but highly touted guys in Garza and Jackson behind
Everyone continues to mention Bay and Nady but what about Laroche? They tried to sign him long term and that did not go well. Now this season he is struggling. If we decide to cut ties with Delgado he would be a cheap option to replace him for this and next season. He could be had for much less than the other 2.
I think the Mets will wait a while on a few things. I don’t see them picking up anyone of significance until they make a few decisions.
1) Can Pedro prove he is healthy by pitching in 5 starts without injury?
2) Will Delgado respond? Step 1 platoon, Step 2 release.
3) Will Alou be able to play 5/7 games a week?
4) Will Heilman regain any form what-so-ever?
I think a lot will be determined in between now and the allstar break with Omar hot on the blackberry until then. I don’t see them rushing into anything yet.
great point. laroche would be interesting.
Does anyone think if we’re at .500 by the deadline, we should be sellers? I sure do. We could probably get something for Ollie, Duque is he’s healthy, Alou, Heilman, and possibly even Delagado.
If we are out of the race then you have to think about what you might get in return for these guys that will be potential FA and compare that to the possible picks you would get.
I would assume that Elduque would not net a type A or B FA because of lack of innings.
Perez I would bet would be at least a B and if he recovers at all an A.
Alou maybe an A but I don’t expect us to offer him arbitration nor do I even expect another team to sign him.
Heilman I would trade yesterday.
Delgado will most likely still be a B level FA but if you could get a guy that could impact the team the next season, why not?
Never mind on Delgado’s status, I don’t think we would offer him arbitration.
Anyone think that if Alou does not retire at season’s end that we should give him another year and let him platoon? As long as we are not DEPENDING on him it might not be a bad option. Fmart and Alou platoon? Fmart would still get more AB’s as he is LH? Let Alou start the season and call up Fmart around May. Just a thought.
We could maybe get a Single A non prospect for El Duque. We’d get next to nothing for Alou and Delgado, unless we paid the remainder of their salaries, and then maybe we can get a B level prospect for them, combined.
Only guys we’d get something for is Heilman and Perez, and it wouldn’t be a lot with the way they’ve pitched this year.
I actually think that if healthy at the time Alou could get us a pretty decent prospect. I am not sure the Mets would trade him or if he would go.
Some team like the Yankee’s, Sox or even the Rays I am sure would love to have him if healthy.
Believe me, I realize the man can flat out rake, but the fact remains that he is a) extremely injury-prone and b) 41 (or 42?). Teams aren’t going to give up a lot for a 41 year old injury-prone rental for 60 games, no matter how good he hits.
Some of these teams, like the Rays, have a deep farm system and do not have the opprotunity to make the post season every year. I don’t think they would mind giving up a decent prospect for a potentially healthy Alou to DH. You gotta remember that an AL team might only be interested in him DHing.
Doesn’t Alou hate DHing though? I remember hearing Willie wanted to DH him vs. the Yankees and he said he wasn’t comfortable DHing because he likes playing the field.
That said, if we can get anything decent for Alou and we are fledging at around .500 at late July, in a heartbeat I’d trade him.
I think you are right Alou does hate DHing, however, I am sure that he would love to win a WS in his last season or at least be on a playoff team. Thus if the Yankee’s told him he would be spliting time with Matsui in the field and DHing he would do it. That’s assuming the Yankee’s would be in better shape than the Mets and that’s assuming a lot.
Wouldn’t this hypothetical team sign Kenny Lofton then? Or even Sosa or Bonds?
Sosa or Bonds no way. Also Lofton is not the hitter that Alou is.
binb, think about it this way. The Mets need a LF right now. Assuming that a guy of Alou’s quality could be had and had been healthy for 2 months which one of those 4 would you want for your stretch run?
I do, but I doubt the front office will, considering they’re jobs may depend on our performance this year.
It also depends what the market would be for those guys, and I wouldn’t expect much back that’s better than what we already have. I don’t see anyone running away with out division so being .500 could mean we’re only a few games back, so unless we could get some young impact type players it might not be worth it for the front office.
Lets just hope we are not out of the race by the end of July.
The only thing worse than being out of the race by the end of July would be being almost out of the race by the end of July. I’d much rather be in 4th place 13 games back at the deadline than in 4th place and 7 or 8 games back. The front office would be far more likely to add long term value and far less likely to do something stupid.
“and far less likely to do something stupid.”
Ugh this worries me so much. I’m worried that if they think the wilpons may clean house if we miss the play-offs they’ll make trade that seriously damages our future after this. it’s been mentioned before that Omar traded Sizemore, Phillips, and someone else I can never remember, when the expos future was in doubt. If he thinks his job depends on how we perform this season who knows what moves he might make.
I don’t see the Wilpons allowing it this time considering the negative press they have taken for the Kazmir trade.
The only way Fmart goes in a trade is for a YOUNG PROVEN player and at this point who would trade that player for him?
I think the Expos future was in doubt because nobody knew if the franchise was going to be around. I don’t think Minaya is going to make drastic changes. The Mets as an organization can’t do it because it has so much invested in the new stadium, network, etc.
As I’ve said before, the Mets need to keep an eye on the future by drafting quality prospects who will be MLB ready in two years. The Mets need to take at least a half page out of the Diamondbacks’ and Rays’ playbook. The organization needs to change their thinking a little bit.
Cliff Lee was the third prospect Omar traded for Fattolo Colon
A reliable starter is the most valuable player in the league right now. 1B is fairly easier to fill, though. I’m not saying we don’t need one, I just think I’d take the pitcher if given a choice. 1B/OF would be even better. I guess it would be cool to take care of either or the problems, and both would be great (but unlikely.)
The Mets FO should sit on their hands. None of us is happy with how the team has played thus far, but there isn’t an easy fix. There’s not one spot that we can improve that will instantly turn this team into an elite squad. As is, the team has a fair chance of winning the division or the wild card. No one acquisition they’ll be able to make is going to change that. Any trades they make this season should be for the health of the franchise, not the 2008 Mets.
I think I agree with this, but it frustrates me to no end.
Here’s another off the wall idea that would be only a bandaid for this season and cost us really only money in return.
Why not trade a bag of balls to the O’s for Mora and Bradford. The O’s are on the hook for their salaries this year and next.
Mora can play every position but catcher and still has some pop. To me he would be a perfect super sub guy. He is owed 14 million for the rest of this season and next season. That is a terrible amount of money that I am sure the O’s would love to get rid of part of it.
Bradford is owed around 5.5 million for this year and next. He would help solidify a shaky bullpen for us and be a great mentor for Smith.
That’s 17.5 million dollars that we would have to take. I am willing to bet that if we traded them a low prospect took those 2 contracts they would pay the 7.5.
Any takers?
Thereal….this is an interesting proposal. Not the virtually impossible-to-pull-off “quick fix”, but addresses two areas of need, without any further mortgaging of our future. This is the only kind of move i could wholeheartedly support. I am willing to let 2008 go in the service of being competitive in 2009.
I voted for the outfield-first baseman option, but only because I don’t trust Alou to stay healthy, and Delgado is just not an everyday player anymore. I look at any other possible move as a panic move that would just as likely make things worse in the long run, and there isn’t any one move to be made that will be able to change the fate of this team. For the most part, if they make it, they’re really going to have to do it with what they have.
Here is something interesting. Since his benching Delgado is hitting .318 with a .400 OBP. Maybe he can wake up enough to be a #7 hitter? Our biggest need is still LF. Get that and Easley and Tatis can spell Delgado against tough LHP. Also IF Alou can come back and pretend to be healthy for a while then you have solved many of the problems. You have a power bat for the bench in Easley and Tatis and you have a platoon for Delgado in those two as well.
vs. LHP
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Alou, Church, Easley/Tatis, Castro
vs. RHP
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Church, Alou, Delgado, Schneider
That lineup should do fine.
Imagine the flak Harrelson would take in today’s game.
I’ve heard mention in this post the names of Bill Hall or Adam LaRoche. I think either one would make a good trade target. I’m just not sure which would be cheaper to obtain. My idea would be to obtain Hall and put him at 3B, and move Wright over to 1B, relegating Delgado to the bench (”power bat”). However, I don’t see Wright being moved to a new position mid-season as a realistic possibility, so if Hall were obtained, he’d have to play 1B this year, and then maybe make the Hall/Wright position switch in the off-season. By the way, Hall also can backup SS, 2B, and the OF.
If the focus is on LaRoche instead of Hall, then he automatically fills the 1B need and relegates Delgado to the bench. However, he’s not as flexible as Bill Hall would be to this team.
Another name not mentioned who could be available soon is Chad Tracy from the DBacks. Tracy plays both 3B and 1B, and also has 52 games of experience as an OF. He “might” be the easiest to obtain in trade, because the DBacks are stacked, and he has been relegated to a supersub kind of existence.
Any of these three players would be great to obtain for this year and beyond. The only question becomes one of how much the cost.
Just food for thought, but I think getting one of these guys would be better than blowing BIG money on Teixeira next year. If the Mets are to blow big money next year, it should be on another solid starter. I don’t think Teixeira would come here anyway.