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Three weeks later, the Mets have finally placed Ryan Church on the 15–day disabled list.
…i haven’t heard yet, but i assume the corresponding move will be to activate Moises Alou…or call up a fourth catcher, because, you know, you can never have too many catchers…
…what a mess this situation with church was…the thing is, i’m not even sure who is to blame for all of this…it’s probably equal parts medical, Omar Minaya and church, who were probably at odds with needing him to play and rest at the same time…
…i just hope he gets better…not from a baseball sense, but for his own well being…
…Update…8:01 pm…
The transaction is retroactive to last Friday, meaning he will be eligible to return to action around June 20.
However, according to the team, Church will not be activated until he is ‘symptom free.’
…once bitten twice shy, baby…
That only took 3 weeks. What a joke.
I say it’s time to bring up Dan Murphy and see what he has. Bringing up Carp wouldn’t be a bad idea either. There both tearing it up in double A!
I have not posted in a while but this subject I could not pass up. The Mets in general have seemed to be playing with a collective concusion. I have trying to stay positive (the reson for not posting) but I have zero faith in this team and it’s choices any longer. I am pretty sure I would like to see this team semi-dismantled for Citi Field. I can deal with losing when the players don’t look like my uncles.
Perhaps if Delgado were to inject steroids for the remainder of the season, his power would come back. We’d have a legitimate 5 hitter and whatever time we get from Alou/Church – who, btw, could both use some juice – would be gravy.
I’m not going to bother looking back to find my comment, but I predicted this exact scenario the day after the concussion. Only I predicted 15 days of wishy-wash before they put him on the 15-day DL too late. Guess I was a little too optimistic.
Yet another symptom of an organization in disarray. Who’s the COO?
Finally!
Head injuries are very complicated. Especially when they are one on top of the other. It isn’t like with a hamstring where you can look and say “Yep, it’s ripped”.
Church has been our best player so far this year. Let’s hope he gets better quickly. I have no idea what his history is like. The way he plays ball he may have had numerous small concussions prior in his career and not really noticed the ill affects. Now he took two huge shots to the head within a span of 2 months. That’s real bad. If he were a fighter he’d just be getting off suspension from that first KO right now.
1. we can either stay with this up and down crap and see what happens
2. make a trade for a nady, dunn, or bay and hope it gets better
3. look to play some kids and start to sell
And anyone that thinks we should trade ollie is a bozo….yes hes be very shaky, but 15 game winner with a low 3 era…….shes young and a lefty…..you dont give up on that
I vote #3
sell ollie to the first team that gives us a middling A-ball prospect.
Rather have the draft pick.
Yep. Let him go; get the pick.
Hopefully, he gets better this year and combined with his performance last year that will get us a 1st round compensatory pick.
Also, hopefully, the organization that grabs him will be one of MLBs confederacy of dunces, the Astros, Nationals, Giants, Jays, or Mariners, so that we get a nice draft pick.
Can we stop with this 15 win BS. Look at his complete body of work. Perez is junk.
Your gonna outbid for him? Boras will have him walk for $1 more. I would trade him because I honestly think he will leave for more $ than they should offer him. If I’m wrong, you can always bring him back.
I bet we could get a lot for Perez… I mean look what we gave up for Zambrano
yeah but we cant trade him to the mets
I vote we trade him to the Chiba Lotte Marines for Bobby Valentine and one of his pitchers. Sign Bobby V to a 10 million dollar or 1,052,500,507 yen deal.
willies still the manager?!!!!
Unfortunetly…..yes
Val Pascucci > Robinson Cancel. It’s a worth a shot (considering the 0.000001% of games that are won by carrying a third catcher).
Love the sarcasm, four catchers. Priceless. I guess none of us on the site are impervious to the Mets poor play.
injuries have hurt the mets this year but these players are not responding to willie and its time to make some changes.
Get well soon, Ryan. We need you healthy.
I can’t blame Willie Randolph or Luis Castillo for this, so I have nothing to say.
You can blame Willie and Omar. They know that their jobs are on the line and they gambled with Church’s mental health to save their jobs.
That is criminal.
Get well soon Ryan.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ the only guy i seen wright that instead of talking about trades and offers …theres a time and a place for that but right now one of our players is hurt .. and we should wish him the best instead of talking about managerial politics
cruel times call for cruel measures. its time to make some trades!
Yea injuries have hurt the Mets but they hurt every team so that cant be used as a reason….and what was the excuse last year? Since a year ago this team has been down right depressing
yeah we lost to many teams missing key cogs… recently…
rockies 1 w/o Holliday, the rest w/o tulo, atkins
padres.. no peavy, tall guy… missed maddux
i love the way the marlins make trades[it seems they almost always aquire young pitching.]
I hope alittle R&R does the Church some good. He was off to a great start and on his way to a career year. Come back strong!
gimme a break with church already, it was just a little bump on the head! as willie said, suck it up and get playing! what a nancy-boy.
good idea. and when he gets hit again or just passes out trying to catch a long fly ball and turns out he cant come back for a few months, if not much longer, we’ll all know it was worth it to have him get a couple of more hits. seriously, u ever look into managing? hell, what was pedro’s problem last year with the arm? slap on a cast and get him on the mound.
just when I was starting to like Church on Sundays for the first time in my life…
ollie is junk??
Oh ok so give up on a guy with great stuff, young, and a lefty…..really smart
Oh yeah wait…..did i mention he won 15 games last year with a 3.23 something era?? THAT AINT JUNK
oh yeah wait….he did pitch pretty good in that NLCS game too…
oh yeah wait….he owns the yankeess….i dont who you are…if you go into yankee stadium more than once and shut them down you aint junk…..
Too bad we don’t always play the Yankees, Braves and NLCS games – Ollie would be lights out!! :)
Ollie is definitely not junk…..inconsistent yes….not junk
look, if he was a prospect we’d all say we shouldnt give up on him. but hes been here before. he has 6 years of experience. yet somehow he just can’t get 2 good consecutive years. thats probably because he cant get 2 good consecutive pitches. he fools around with his delivery when it finally starts working and suddenly that shutout becomes a blowout in the 6th inning. hes a child, in every sense of the word. hes the type of pitcher who gets pitching coaches, GMs, and managers fired.
If Ralph Kramden was talking to Ollie he would say “Ollie, you’re a mental case.”
let’s not get carried away. he’s pretty much junk.
i knew he was junk since he walked four in a row in a playoff game.
yeah hes jost NL junk, the kind that loses you a pennant but may win a bronx series. what are you smokin?
Sorry, charlie, but I’d rather the pennant than a subway trophy.
The man has pitched in the majors for several years. His stats for all but one are horrible. Many players have career years, last year was his. He’s pitched one great game in a NLCS. Only one. When they needed a big victory last year in September, he was nowhere to be found. As for his dominance over the Braves, does that make Wolf a good pitcher cause he dominates the Mets? I think your highly overestimating his pitching abilities. Yes he has great stuff, he just doesnt have the mind to control it. He will always be up and down, mostly down. He’s just too erratic to be counted on.
he was better in 2004 than he was last year, so I don’t know that it was his 1 career year. Just sayin.
And how did this thread turn into an Ollie Perez forum? Did I miss something, shouldn’t we be talking about how much it sucks that Church, the one bright spot this season, has missed the better part of 3 weeks and will be missing even more time now?
As in, the rest of his life. This has the potential to be very tragic. It’s an injury that could end his career and leave permanent damage. If he can reduce the risk by walking away now, I really hope he does.
He’s got tons of potential.
However, we will not be contending that soon, and the probability that he puts it all together is so low that it is not worth the risk of the free-agent money he will command. Signing free agents period is becoming a poor strategy. The draft picks are almost uniformly a better bang for the buck. In Perez’s case, this goes double, for he’s as much of a gamble as your run-of-the-mill 1st rounder. except he’ll cost 200 times as much.
finally, it’s salomon manriquez time at shea
too bad he’d be playing with and not against santana
ah, spring training looked so promising
Finally something Willie cant be blamed for.
Regards,
Fire Omar.
Listen Im all for bringing up young ball players but there is a reason these guys are still in AA ball they are not ready for the big leauges or the pressure to produce now. We saw how Nick Evens worked out.
Very true. You can’t really call up anyone from AA and expect production. Especially from our AA club, where the only blue chip is on the DL.
But you gotta give the Scooch and the ‘Guila-monster a shot over Abraham f**king Nunez and Robinson Cancel. A crap shoot is better than a shot of known crap.
BRILLIANT!!! Thanks Tim in LA!
Wright only had 31 games at AAA at age 21 before his call up. Reyes had 42 games at age 20. AAA is not a necessary stopping point. Lots of major leaguers have very brief or nonexistent AAA careers. Because Nick Evans had a poor week do you just close the book on trying any other young player? All players aren’t the same. Is Carp ready? Is Murphy ready? Since I don’t see them in person, but just follow the boxes, I don’t know. But I also know that just because Evans didn’t look strong, does not guarantee that all AA callups will fail equally.
Wow Matt – finally something that Willie isn’t to blame for. Will somebody take a hit for this or will this continue to be the Zero Accountability Mets. The thing is that, while we want to blame and discipline folks, it’s not always that easy either. A perfect example is Ramon Castro. He overslept and was too late to be allowed to play this weekend and then, what was his excuse? – I thought there was a change of time zone between San Francisco and San Diego and I didn’t even notice that there wasn’t although I’d already been in San Diego for 3 days? On the surface, sounds like a guy that, at this point, we need to get rid of, but I’d hate to be left with Schneider, Casanova and Cancel be our depth behind the plate. Castro hasn’t been a problem, from what I can remember, up until this. The medical mishaps have been a recurring theme, as has Omar’s poor roster management.
It wouldn’t suprise me if we don’t see a healthy Church for the rest of this season. Head injuries are a very serious thing.
This year is starting to look bad. Or maybe starting is the wrong word.
I’m pretty optimistic about the future. With over 40million coming off the books, we can go out and get a few pieces. Santana, Reyes, Wright, Beltran is still a good core to build around.
What’s Wagner’s contract situation? One year left, or is this it?
signed thru 2009.
What pieces? And lose more draft picks? I mean, what would we trade, not the only orts worth hoping for — Evans, Carp, and Murphy?
This is painfully evolving into the type of season for a team that books are writing about… I’m sure Klap-trap is already making his pitch.
The problem is they haven’t done anything really interesting to help sell the book to the general public. Showing up late or telling a reporter that your own TV network is trying to make you look bad won’t get the job done. We need firecrackers and people getting soaked with bleach!
there’s still 100 games left, anything can happen.
Most of it crappy
frankly, you’re giving the Mets too much credit to think that there is some book out of this. What have the Mets done this year that is so surprising? Not lived up to expectations, have things gone wrong for them? Played middling ball? If that’s a book, there should be books written about a few teams every year. Frankly, we’re all a little too Met-centric around here and were to begin the year off as well. Thinking this team would win the division easily (or at least handidly by the end). That’s your NY-sports bubble for you!
if the mets deserve a book then the tigers deserve a multimillion dollar movie directed by Steven Spielberg
What an embarrassment. A man’s very life was at stake, and it took until now to take action.
I cannot remember being more disgusted with this organization, and I lived through the Lenny Randle/Bruce Boisclair/Randy Tate eras.
Yeah, I’m REAL ready to pay $50 bucks or whatever it’s gonna be for the nosebleed seats at CitiField.
i felt a lot better about the teams chances about making a run at the division when the marlins were in first…
well this just means they´ll lose some more… Church had been very solid. Will anybody please tell me why Beltran is still the clean up hitter?? I hope to see Alou there tomorrow (if he really comes back), Wright walks left and right and beltran goes 0 for every game. Move him up to the 2 spot, where he can bunt as much as he likes!!!
How bout ….just for old times we sake we bat Beltran-Delgado-Wright
I know hes Del-done-O, Del-crappo, Delgarbage, etc. But what have we got to lose at this point. put him in the only spot he was ever successful for us at. Batting cleanup in front of Wright.
yes I know im dumb, and it will never happen. but it cant get much worse then our current state
I’m down with that.
Like it or not, but Delgado is the only thing on this current roster that closely resembles a clean-up hitter. Yes…Wright, Beltran, etc are better hitters at this point in their careers….but they aren’t cleanup guys at all. It is sad to say, but it comes down to Delgado regaining his stroke (positive signs the past 2 days) or the Mets trading for a guy like Dunn……
All the Nady’s and Bay’s in the world won’t help this team….they need the #4 guy in the lineup that makes everyone else better.
Wow, that’s a major move, maybe it’ll be brought up at Willie’s next closed door meeting with the Wilpons regarding his views on abortion and stem cell research.
I never even realized this, but the Phils are batting Ryan Howard and his .214 avg 4th. Look how bad theyre doing. I think we seriously need to consider Delcleanup
I was just thinkign this today that our wright-beltran-alou/delgado hasnt been working, so we should go back to betlran delgado wright for atleat a few games especailly since Delgado has been hot. I think it would give him some confidence back and it would take pressure off beltran and wright
At this rate, it couldn’t hurt. Besides, with Endy or Easley batting 2nd, their guaranteed to come up to bat with at least 1 out every time.
When Alou comes back:
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Alou
Scheider
Castillo
Endy
P
I thought they weren’t going to let Church play at all until he had been “symptom free” for two days?
What a disaster.
Half the guys can’t stay healthy, the other half are on the field 24/7, but can’t produce.
Perez finally gives his team a (relatively) quality start, but the offense can’t come through (big surprise).
The team as a whole took some nice steps in the right direction winning three straight series in… well, only God knows how long. Then they proceed to follow that up by switching it in reverse and losing yet another 4-game series, but this time to one of the worst teams in all of Major League Baseball.
This club certainly doesn’t have all the drama of the early ’90s squad with Bobby “You Can’t Wipe That Smile Off His Face” Bonilla and Vince “The Firecracker” Coleman, but it sure does smell an awful lot like the second coming of the “Worst Team Money Could Buy.”
Say, when is the next 4-game series? Maybe they can just forfeit that entire series right now. this way the players can maybe book a nice vacation or something. Take a load off and relax a bit knowing that they don’t have to worry about those games.
I see some people are still clinging to the expectations of 08. Just let it go man. I was on here myself calling for Willie’s head, but Ive come to expect .500 ball now. I think my blood pressure has dropped considerably since letting it go.
I really do think we’re in good shape for the near future. If this year is a bust, next year we have an awful lot of money to spend.
Our pen should be in good shape next year, or at least the same shape it’s in now.
We’ll have Santana, Maine, and Pelfrey, who hopefully is at least a 5th starter by then. We’ll have to go out and buy ourselves an expensive pitcher, but they’re out there. Sabathia, perhaps? Had a terrible start to the year, but since his first 6 or 7 games, has been good. Not sure I want a fat guy for a long deal.
Then we find another mediocre pitcher somewhere, leaving us with LF and 1B as holes. There’s Teixeira, but I honestly think he’ll be more money than he’s worth. He had great numbers in a tiny park with Texas, slumped a bit, moved to Atlanta, had a great half year, and is now putting together a not-great season, though he’s heating up.
Any thoughts?
Yes. There’s a core and nothing else. The cupboard is bare. It’s going to be a slog, and it’s going to take a much better GM than Minaya to bring in the right complementary parts. I’m having a premonition involving a press conference during the off-season, with Minaya proudly announcing the acquisition of, e.g., Carlos Guillen or Raul Ibanez, trying to justify the five-year deal he just gave the guy, etc.
You think he’d get a guy that hits as well as they do? Omar looks for guys further on the decline and 5-6 years older in age.
Where’s Manny Mota these days? I’m sure if he talked to Omar, he’d have a seat on the bench soon. I’m still shocked Julio Franco couldn’t convince him into getting another shot.
I don’t know — Ibanez is 36. Ripe for the signing. I have no idea if he’s a FA, but if so, Omar is making a PowerPoint right now to explain to Fred’n'Jeff why he’s worth a seven year deal.
Look. We sucked in 2004. Minaya came in and got us within a game of the world series in two years.
That sort of acceleration costs a price. Now we’re paying it.
Yes, there have been a few moves that Minaya would probably take back. The Lindstrom deal, for example, or Bannister. Bannister’s ERA is now at 4.96…
But getting good in two years means you’ll end up with a whole lot of old guys a couple years later at the end of their contracts. Which is precisely what we have now.
If after 2004, you told me that our next four years would contain one real good shot at winning it all, two mediocre years, and one shot at the postseason, I’d take it in a heartbeat. Any of us would.
The only real regret I have is how last season ended. We’re still in a position to rebuild and get good again, the main pieces are there and we’ll have the money.
So everyone, shut up about how a .500 team is an embarrassment and how everyone in the front office needs to be fired. If you didn’t think Delgado or Pedro would break down at the end of their contracts, you were fooling yourself. If you think that the Delgado trade or the Pedro signing were mistakes, you’re probably wrong again, given how good Delgado was in 2006.
Hold on a sec. One 97 win team and then rebuilding, and we’re supposed to “shut up”? What a fantastic GM — overpays for some guys no other team wants to take a chance with because they don’t have the payroll, then throws up his hands after — whoops — didn’t make the World Series one year. A twelve year-old could have done that . . . or helped Jeff Wilpon do that.
The fans always prefer a consistent winner, and that’s what Omar set out to give us — a team that could retool as it contended. As the Delgados and Pedros sloughed off, we should have had a real bench and real prospects to take their places. Ah . . . noooooo. Omar succeeded only with the obvious moves.
Yes, but I would like to know what the plan is before I’m asked to plunk down my $2k + for tix at Citi. Minaya has been the invisible man just about all season.
I mean, are you gonna re-up for more of this? I’m not going anywhere and am looking forward to Citi, but we have some large bills coming in the mail later this year. I would like some inkling of what they plan for next year.
I’m living on the west coast now, sadly, so the ticket prices won’t hurt me until I move back.
I’m really just curious as to what moves Minaya and the Mets could have made to avoid the state we’re in now.
Castillo’s been a little painful to watch, but there aren’t better 2Bs out there.
Get another outfielder? Who was there, Shawn Green?
I’m 100% for signing Kenny Lofton immediately, but I really don’t see where the Mets could have done better.
And I went a bit far with the shut up comment. As someone who lived through the 90’s Mets, if not the three decades before, the Mets could be much, much, much, much worse off, and people don’t seem to realize that.
The Mets could have done much better in the scouting and drafting department. Yes, i dont think Omar had a lot of great choices on the free agent market the last two years, but at the same time he signed Alou, which cost us a first round pick two years ago. That pick couldve been a really good player and in general the Mets have drafted horribly for years now. That is the true problem with this franchise.
It’s still early!
ok….it gets late early here.
Realize it’s not on topic, but man am I glad we didn’t trade for Dontrelle. 1.1 innings, 8 ER, 64 pitches. That’s Ollie-esque.
i hate to compliment ollie but ollie wishes he could be that bad
Without Church, I have no faith. Punn.
The Church thing has been entirely mishanlded. It’s complete arrogance to not get a specialists opinion about head injuries, and i’m positive they didn’t, because no good neurlogist would have cleared Church to play with the symptoms he was having. Hopefully, hopefully, Chuch will be alright in the end.
i wouldnt mind seeing dunn on the mets yes he does strike out and not sure how good with a glove but hasnt he hit 40 hrs every year for 3 years?this guy is a masher who is strong enough to hit it out of any park.
You obviously don’t remember the Dave Kingman years.
i do . But is adam dunn the distracting force in the clubhouse kingman was?At least he can still hit 40 hrs i dont see delgado doing it.
Kingmans Career OBP was around .300 and he had 100 RBI’s only twice in his career.
Dunn….. OBP .382 and already 3 seasons of 100+ RBIs and well on his way to #4 this year.
No comparison……..
Era?
Era doesn’t really account for the OBP gap. the rbi’s, sure, though guys drove in runs back then as well.
Sorry this is off topic but, on a positive note, ESPN2 just showed a clip of Ike Davis pitching to get Arizona State out of a jam by getting a batter to hit into a double play. They said he seems to relish high-pressure situations and often gets the team out of tight spots. Maybe he can be cloned and the Mets can use him at 1B, OF, and P…
Yeah, but can he scout?
second coming of Micah Cummings?
lol, micah owings.. unless im missing a joke
HA!
I thought Midre Cummings. Then I thought, “huh?”
haha whoops….I think I got messed up with the “second coming” part…that, or my mind was somewhere in the gutter.
there’s a freudian slip if i’ve ever seen one
They also showed him getting into a pre-game fight with one of his own teammates, Wallace. Shades of Hernandez and Strawberry?
At least Ike’s got some spunk (even if it was with a teammate)! Something the Mets could use.
Owings sounds amazing. I can’t believe he had a pinch hit HR and was recently batted 8th in the order…wonder how that made the position player feel who batted last.
Davis looked pretty good but Wallace looked better. Did he get drafted?
Sweet, more Endy time. He might just get enough atbats this year to qualify as the worst hitting position player EVER.
Hal Lanier and Mario Mendoza, eat your hearts out……
willies got to go.
If, when the Mets are 15 games under and Church is still suffering, Omar says something like “well, if we had had Ryan Church. . . ” I will give the Wilpons 24 hours to fire him before I become a free agent fan.
Church on the DL – it’s about time. Here’s hoping, solely for his sake first, he gets back to feeling himself soon. And a distant second – yeah b/c it was at least exciting when Ryan was playing….
Along with poor decisions – could this team have any worse luck? They say you make your own luck. It’s about time the Mets put that pot on the stove and start cooking……
i think omar and willie should think about a career in stand up comedy.
might give abbott and costello a run for thier money!!!!!
also hoping f-mart isnt another alex escobar!
this rests squarely on the MEDICAL Department.
No decent Doctor would allow a patient who suffered a SECOND concussion in three months to FLY to COLORADO days after the event.
NO decent Medical Staff would allow a concussive person to make his own decisions on how he feels and whether he was OK to play..
This is a travesty to Ryan’s health and I hop there are no Long term effects for this action which is bordering on malpractice.
i could just see them pointing fingers at each other right now.
omar is currently trying to convince doug sisk to make a comeback!!!!!!!!!!!
Matt –
How could you possibly place ANY blame on Church or even Omar.. Even if Church Lied about his symptoms any competent Doctor should be able to examine him and determine his condition.
I mean Gary Cohen and the rest of the Broadcast team have been commenting for days – WEEKS – on the fact that Church just doesnt Seem right.. he ahs a distant gaze and seems out of it..
One interview with him and these medical minds in the broadcast booth determined he wasnt right.. what were the quacks with the medical degrees thinking???
And Omar? He has no idea.. what did he do? Are you saying he told the Docs to clear him? because if thats the case there are deeper problems and concerns here
Did you see his eyes after the PH HR? He looked like we was wasted…
Captain obvious called. He said the next time he will stop by is when the mets are statistically eliminated.
Hey guys….its been a while since I posted. Did i miss anything good?
Hows the team going this year?
In a related note, I hate this team…
Ok, good…I havent been able to post in a while, and then when I could either Matt or the site wouldnt let me post…
My thoughts on this season that is quickly slipping away. First off, I really dont know what to say about Willie. Part of me says that when a team underachieves its the managers fault. The other part says these guys have now been through about the worst calendar year a team can have, and they STILL DONT GET IT….I dont know what happened, but that Dobbs HR last year ‘broke’ something in this team. It was like they were becoming the cool kid in school, and got shot down for the prom. Whatever happened that series against the Phils it became part of this team. All their confidence is shot, and to me, whenever they show any its fake. They went from knowing they were a good team, to thinking they were a good team, to having too tell themselves they are a good team. Suddenly all the personal wounds that were being taped over with winning came pouring out, and Willie has been trying to get the toothpaste back into the bottle since…
Just like everyone else I dont know what the ‘problem’ is, I can just observe it just like everone else. I fear this team will continue this trend of 75% poorly played, lazy, bad fundemental baseball….get the requisite wake up call in the form of a front page….play hard for a few games…then slide back into this year long funk they’re stuck in….I dunno….If getting JOHAN SANTANA, and enduring the worst collapse in baseball history isnt enough to wake them up, does anyone really think firing Willie will?
As a sports fan, I am a little bewildered and shocked by the conduct of the mets organization, whether it’s the front office or the medical staff or omar or willie, .
Church continues to claim that the mets didnt handle anything wrong – that they left it up to him and he told them he felt ok and its his fault. I’d expect nothing less from church, but its precisely the reason that he says the mets are not at fault that disgusts me and puts them at fault absolutely. The mets left important playing and life decisions up to a player who is known as a trooper and hardworker and would undoubtedly want to get back out there as soon as possible. Their excuse – we couldnt tell what he was feeling, so we had to go by how he told us he felt. Going by how someone who has only had one concussion before (followup concussions are said to be very different) says he feels, not even as a clue for specialists to give diagnosis off of (as far as we know) but for straight up playing-or not playing-decisions. But in hockey and football people get concussions and they are treated much more cautiously – especially in hockey! Excuse? willie randolph said “nobody really knows much about concussions in baseball. This situation probably wasn’t willie’s fault at all, but thats a pretty dumb thing to say. I think corey koskie who’s career was ended by concussions would beg to differ, so i can only assume willie meant that doctors who deal with baseball don’t know much about the effects on baseball playing. So, they don’t know much about it, so rather than consult a hockey doctor who deals with it regularly or perhaps deal with extra care, much as they might do for a repeat arm injury for a pitcher, lets just throw him back out there – let the player decide. And when things work out poorly with all this? Lets avoid mea culpas, use as much secrecy and rhetoric as possible and let our player who’s career and life we could have messed up continue to defend us.
The Mets have made some dumb personnel moves of late and in the past, but if things truly went down and continue to go down as they are appearing to, then it is ridiculous and they should be ashamed of themselves.
This reminds me of when Jose Reyes was injured years ago and the horrible advice he got. That new running style that caused other injuries. I know MLB doesn’t have the same guidelines as the NHL and NFL, but seriously, how about looking out for the health of your player. Asking a guy with a serious head injury how he feels isn’t very smart. Hopefully he gets well and can help the team in a few weeks but they blew this.
the Mets have changed their Medical Affiliation since the Reyes incidents.. But whoever is dealing with the medical side of this injury is squarely to blame,
Fred and Jeff previously sold out the Medical affiliation to the highest bidder.. When players started dropping like flies they stopped that practice.
Agreed. The mets wouldn’t have let Ryan play without getting clearance from the docs. No wonder why the mets won’t let anyone talk to his docs…they don’t want to put their medical reputations on the line.
We need to try to get all our players healthy first before we throw in the towell. Lets give our up and down team one more try with both Church and Alou in the lineup. I mean maybe we would have won all those games 3-2 instead of losing 2-1 if they were both healthy. If the injuries continue or we just cant win…at the July 31 deadline confirm this team as a rebuilding team…and look to sell Beltran or Wagner for whatever top prospects we can get. There are plenty of teams out there that will need a big bat or a big closer and will be willing to pay the money for it. We can get a lot for these players. Then we can start seeing what are young players are made of…get some new prospects, hope Fernando Martinez starts tearing the ball up..and get excited about season 1 at Citi Field
for beltran you can get better than just some good prospects…..also did anyone see dontrelle willis stink it up 2nite? id love to trade O.P. to the Tigers…….
I think Beltran has a no trade clause. Which wouldn’t make it impossible to trade just harder, especially when you factor in the contract. But either way before the front office could even entertain the idea of trading him, or anyone, they’d have to come out of their deep denial about this team.
I agree 100% and I would try to trade Beltran now. Give me some Rowand and Eckstein type guys for this team. The Mets need grit, not mud.
It’s almost to the point where for the first time ever I’m actually starting to feel embarrassed to be a Mets fan. Not because of the win/loss record but because of this circus atmosphere that surrounds this team and all the bone-head moves and mindless decisions they seem to make on a weekly basis. We are becoming the joke of the league and this terrible situation with Church takes the cake. I actually caught myself yesterday removing my Mets cap (on a subconscious level) when I went out to buy a pack of cigarettes, I’ve never done that before even when the Mets were one of the worse teams in baseball back in the late 70’s. I just can not believe the sudden and shocking turn for the worse this team has taken. Can’t it possibly get any worse?
Never say that….There are PLENTY of things that could still go wrong…..None of the star players have been hurt(at least seriously)…
If Johan, Wright, Reyes or Wagner get hurt things can most definitly get worse….
Lets prey they stay healthy. You’re right. I almost expect it to happen the way this season is going. It’s always in the back of my mind. I keep my fingers crossed when ever I see Reyes sliding in head first into 2nd base or see Write dive for a ball down the left field line. Nerve racking.
How many concussions has Omar had?
Enough not to remember what he did to ruin the farm system.
He didn’t ruin it, it was ruined before he got here, he just did absolutely nothing to improve it/keep it from getting worse.
I’ve been having an interesting chat with a guy who has been convinced all year long that the Mets problems stem from the fact that they are an “old team”.
I decided to take a look at all the teams, and here are the results. Yes, the Mets are the oldest team in baseball at 30.8 years of age on average, but considering that the Phillies are 30.6, the Red Sox 30.4, and the Cubs 30.3, I don’t think the extra tenth or two of average makes a hill of beans difference.
The Mets are playing poorly, but not because they’re old
So why then – what do you think?
First and foremost I blame injuries, then there are the inexplicably poor performances of Heilman and Beltran (early),
I think we need one boomer bat off the bench and a bit of health, and this team will be the cream of the NL.
It gets late early, but there is a ton of season left.
Age is relative. It also can be skewed by which position the respective players play. You can have a team with almost ALL young players in your starting 9 and have a bench full of 30+ bench players and a few relievers as well which will push that average over 30. The important thing is, which KEY players are Old and close to washed up.
The Mets aren’t old?? Alou, Pedro (probably older than he says he is), Castillo (who is older than he says he is), El Duque (ditto), Easley, Marlon Anderson, Delgado (who is 35 but plays like he is 45), Tatis and Schoenweiss (who are in their mid 30’s but used steriods), Wagner…. This is 1/4th of the 40 man roster.
The Mets problem is that their older players are fragile and easily susceptible to injury or are in a state of decline, e.g. Delgado can no longer catch up to a decent fastball without committing early which makes him susceptible to the off-speed stuff. He may have a good streak at times but over a long period it is obvious that he can no longer produce as he had previously.
Also, you can have just one player (Julio Franco for example) that pushing 50, that can really skew those numbers!
Also, about the old players…..our two stars and three of our pitchers are below the age of being “in their prime”……combined with our old guys like delgado, alou, pedro, duque, it averages out to a bunch of players in the phillies who are in their prime (rollins, utley, and howard are all 29 or 30)
That’s why I said age is all relative. Unfortunately for the Mets, allot of the old players are KEY pieces to this team’s success, not just bench players or spot relievers or secondary players.
OK, and DW, Reyes and Church are 24, 25 and 29.
Do we not also have young player in their prime?
Of course we do, that’s why it’s called an AVERAGE.
You can throw Beltran in there too along with Main, Perez, Pelfrey etc.
So are you saying we have more KEY older players than young or prime age players?
Besides Delgado and Alou, who do you see as too old for the team? Easley (role player)? Tatis (only here because of injury)?
I consider Pedro, El Duque and Castillo (he looks like he’s going on 50) Key players that were looked upon to contribute heavily to this team before the season began. Pitchers are Key players too, maybe even more so.
Reyes: 24
Wright: 25
Beltran: 31
Church: 29
Schnieder: 31
Santana: 29
Maine: 27
Ollie: 25
Smith: 25
Sanchez: 29
Heilman: 29
That is a very solid core of guys between 24 and 31.
You can also look at the other side of the coin:
El Duque: ? LOL
Delgado: 36
Alou: 41
Pedro: 36?
Easley ?
Tatis: ?
Marlon: ?
Schoenweiss: ?
Castillo: ?
Sorry I didn’t have all the ages but you get my drift.
Castillo is 32. Marlon is 34.
Schoeneweiss has pitched extremely well this year….is age holding him back too?
So I’ll ask again, other than Delgado and Alou, what key cogs for the Mets are dragging the team down because of age?
The Mets core is actually fairly young, that’s why I’m in favor of keeping the gems in Wright, Reyes, Smith, Maine, and Santana, and just selling off the rest of the team for younger players. Willie is finished after this season so I won’t even bother discussing him, but if the Mets did this, they’d instantly get younger and more athletic, as well as open up more salary space to possibly go after Tex and Sabathia in the off-season.
Schoeneweiss has definitely pitched extremely well this season, I’ll give you that. I also consider Pedro and El Duque Key pieces to this team. Castillo, that’s a grey area, Biological age may be 32 but with two bum knees he looks like he going on 50.
delgado was supposed to be a clean up hitter if not 5th…. how huge of a age related hole do ya need….
Exactly. When you have your Clean-up Hitter (your big thumper) that can’t catch up to a 90 hr fastball (and sometimes 86!) and your power hitting left fielder – Alou who’s suppose to balance out the line-up from the right side both basically washed up, that’s a huge AGE RELATED hole. These aren’t roll players we’re talking about here. You have to give more weight to one player versus another depending on how much of an impact they have to your team.
4 and 6 hitter …. delgado and alou…….. not exactly like having an old bench player or 2…. thats old in key spots…
Thank you. That’s my point exactly. I understand NY Sports Dog’s argument also that we’re basically only talking about two starting everday players but what a HUGE hole they leave in the middle of that line-up. That has a trickle down effect to the whole batting order. As a result we have Beltran who’s a natural and pure no. 3 or no. 2 hitter having to bat out of position in the clean-up spot and Wright who idealy should be batting 5th batting in the 3rd hole and so on and so on.
There’s also the two huge holes Pedro and El Duque leave/left/will probably leave again at some time during this season, in rotation.
Yes, so we have two HUGS holes in our batting order and two HUGE holes in our Pitching rotation, and we wonder why the Mets are doing so poorly? Hmmmm, let’s keep wondering some more, shall we.
I meant Huge……………..not HUGS! LOL. Actually the Mets could use a few of those too!
Freudian slip, huh Nads?
Is there something going on between you and Gina that we all should know about?
Hmmmmm?
Hmmmmmm? No Glider, never had the pleasure of meeting Gina, I’m sure she a lovely person though. Hey, she’s a Mets fan, gotta love it. Lets get back to topic now and not turn this into a personal chat, shall we?
Get well Ryan. Worry about your health first.
This team will not materialize in to anything more than a .500 team. With these recurring injuries with Church, Alou, Pedro, Schneider, and Castillo, it’s time to dismantle much of the team and build around our core again, but in a different fashion. Reyes, Wright, Santana, Maine, Pelfrey, Smith, Sanchez, and Church need to stay, whereas nobody else should be back next year. Here’s a few trade scenarios to build up our farm so we can become a younger competitive team in a few years:
1) Billy Wagner to the Brewers for Jeremy Jeffress, Angel Salome, and Lorenzo Cain. The Brewers have no true closer, and this will allow Torres to be their 8th inning guy again. Wagner seems like a perfect fit for them. Jeffress is just a better version of Gerrit Cole, who many were furious that the Mets passed up. High 90’s fastball, a potential plus slider, an average changeup, and smooth mechanics. He has had recent drug problems, but went through rehab during his suspension and should be given a shot. His ceiling is enormous. Salome is a big chunky catcher, but has big hitting potential. Cain is a potential 5-tool outfielder, but dissapointed last year. A major sleeper in the prospect world, he just adds some minor league OF depth.
2) DFA/Basically give away Delgado. Bring up Carp, who is mashing in AA and give the kid a chance to prove himself.
3) Attempt to move Carlos Beltran, we would need to eat up a few million off his contract. The Cubs seem like a logical suiter, as one more bat could put them over the top. If the Mets pay 3-4 mil off his contract per year, we might be able to grab Josh Vitters and Donald Veil in return.
4) Trade Oliver Perez to a desperate team in need of starting pitching at the deadline. A lighting-in-a-bottle lefty is always valuable, and a team like the Yankees would definitely be interested. Maybe Alan Horne and someone else in return. Or OP straight up for Kennedy.
5) Jon Niese to the Majors to take OP’s spot. He has a mid-3 ERA in the minors and has consistently improved the last few years, Niese impressed in ST. He can throw 4 pitches for strikes and should end up being a 3 starter in the majors.
6) Platoon Daniel Murphy with Luis Castillo. It’s likely nobody will take Castillo’s ridiculous contract, so we’re stuck with him for at least another year. Murphy has played some 3B and 2B in the last few years and has mashed in AA just like Carp.
7) When Alou gets injured again, bring up Fernando Martinez. The best time would be some point in August, so Fernando would have 2 months or so coming off his recent injury. He was hitting extremely well after a lackluster April and could certainly bring a spark to the Mets.
8) Bring Eddie Kunz to the Majors. If Wagner’s gone, Kunz would be our 7th inning guy.
Mets fans will not rally or support a bunch of veterans on the back end of their careers, but they will get behind a bunch of kids playing their hearts out. Out core is good enough to not ever be horrible and we should be contending within the next 2 years or so.
From what I understand Murphy, Carp and Evans are all mediocre defensively so I don’t think platooning Murphy with Castillo is really an option. And I don’t think Neise has gotten better the last few years considering we drafted him a year ago.
Carp can’t be any worse overall than Delgado.
And Re Rey is proposing a trial by fire with Murphy at 2B, a position that he has little, if any, time out.
But, Omar doesn’t have the stones to pull of any of this, so it is a moot point!
Nice job but remember most other teams are not as quick to give up younger players as the Mets are. We’ve already held onto some players too long. Who is going to want Heilman? KC, the Giants and others have some promising players but I don’t see them taking a chance on trading for our guys. The Mets farm system has been decimated even before the Santana trade. And I’m not saying Gotay was any kind of phenom but we got nothing in return for him. There is just no life on this team.
Rey Rey, I would like to commend you for actually taking the time to look up players on other teams. Much more credible than most posters who just want to trade the bums! Of course, I am not really familiar with any of them, so I can’t comment on the reltaive deals.
COnceptually, I will go with all your ideas, except keep Beltran.
The other problem you have is no trade contracts for Beltran and Wagner, so they may not want to go. But hey, worth asking!
What you do point out is something I have been saying for a while. THe Mets do need to retool this year (if not now, at year end) anyway. But, the core to build around is certainly solid, and young enough to contend for a long time to come.
So, no trading more prospects for stop gap stiffs (like last year with Castillo and Conine). If you need a replacement, go in house.
If you did the changes you suggested (without Beltran), I honestly don’t think the team would do any worse, maybe better, and would certainly be better positioned for 2009+
Just curious though, if you trade Wagner, will you have a defined closer, or just go by committee?
Sanchez would likely be the closer, Kunz would be groomed in to our future closer.
To the other guy, Niese has been in the organization for 3 years. You’re thinking of Eric Niesen.
I have a feeling Wagner and Beltran would both welcome trades, especially Bektran due to his disdain for the fans.
Maybe we could swing Beltran to the Dodgers for Andy Laroche, Scott Elbert, and Andrew Lambo. Andruw Jones sucks, plus they could use the veteran among their extremely young core. Elbert has fallen off since his injury, but still has ridiculous stuff.
Whats up w/ F-Mart?
Still hurt and for how long is he out?
just a thought now that Church is out for ?????
When he was first injured, they said it would be about three weeks. It’s been just over three weeks, so he should be back in the lineup soon.
I say give this kid some time in the majors and see how he does.
Did anyone else just see our number one draft pick, Ike Davis, get into a fistfight with his teammate on the field?
Just when you thought things couldn’t get any worse….haha.
We need some fighting players.
I like Ike.
I agree we need some fight, but not with your own teammate!
Omar, this is not what I meant when I asked for more aggressive hitters.
at this point it probably couldn’t hurt. maybe some met on met crime is what this team needs.
well at least we know he wont let other teams push him around..davis that is
I’m not sure what I think of Ollie. I know somewhere inside his body and head he has the capabilities of having some outstanding games, but i do think his post season stats are a bit “glass full” type of analogy. Let’s face it, it took one of the most outstanding catches in MLB history to save 3 runs off his ERA. Without that catch, he’s just plain old erratic Ollie.
Church should be out for life. He can die or get really hurt.
If Church played HS or college sports his mother would say, “stop playing Ryan.”
There are always bomb sales jobs. He can be a financial adviser.
—–
Too bad though he was due for a substantial raise if he were to keep up his progress. Now even if he has an amazing run through the end he will have a cloud over him.
what in god’s name are you talking about?
Optimists here shouldn’t read the papers today.
You got Minaya admitting that he’s worried about the Phils in the Times, then backtracked on that.
You got Willie complaining in Newsday that it’s just not fair that there are high expectations for the team with the biggest payroll in the league.
And in the Daily News they rip Minaya for his aging roster and barren farm system.
The good news? Randolph sez in the Post that they’re going to beat the D’backs starters this week.
omfg if one more person even associates with the mets complains about the high expectations my head is going to explode. What the hell did they expect when they traded for Santana? That the fans would be happy with a mediocre team as long as we had an ace? It’s not like they spent the off-season talking about rebuilding, or something. They clearly pushed the idea that Santana would put us over the edge and get us to the W.S.