|
|
|
I was watching the last game of the 1991 season, David Cone’s 19 strikeouts, on SNY’s UltiMets Classics the other day and got to thinking. Did I enjoy baseball more when I had lesser expectations for the team to succeed such as in ‘91 when they finished with a 77-84 record?
It’s always more fun to win, but when there are lofty expectations for a team and they lose, especially when they get swept, I get reminded of the lean years in Mets history when winning was a bonus and going to Shea was stress-free.
Now, with one of the highest payrolls in the majors and a team that on paper
was predicted to go to the World Series hovering around .500, the fun has just not been there because the expectation to win is so high.
I look at teams such as the Tampa Bay Rays who have never been good but are now playing their hearts out because they believe they can win, and are having fun doing it. Then I look at the Mets who seem bipolar; one week they look like the team I know can still win the division, and the next week they will appear lazy.
Would I rather have that ‘91 team than this one? No. I would still rather have a team that I believe can succeed than one I expect to fail, but I just can’t remember a time when I felt as confused as this team makes me feel.
 |
 |
 |
RSS 2.0 Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Well said Rege, Its unfortunate that more Mets fan don’t remember teams like this…As a long time Mets Fan I’ll still take this team over the 91, firecracker squad any day of the week.
Vince Coleman takes offense to that remark.
In ‘91, tickets were $10 and parking was $4. You’re supposed to get what you pay for, that simple.
I think that was the 93 team he was on.
I realize he wasn’t on the 91 team, but how could I let a firecracker reference go by without an obligatory name dropping?
He was on the 91 team, but he lit off the firework during the tragic 93 season.
Oops :D
There is a middle ground. The upstart improving teams that are just starting to come together. I think of the 1997-1999 teams this way and the 2005 team (and to some extent, 2006) were like this. So, I think we’ve actually been pretty lucky as far as root-able teams go over the last decade as Mets fans.
i would rather have David Cone circa 1991
At least with those bad 90s teams, you knew what you were gonna get. Some good individual performances surrounded by a lot of bad ones and the team looking up at the Braves in the standings (though that wasn’t expected until a few years into the 90s, of course).
This year’s team is beyond pathetic. I can’t even root for them anymore, they play with such little intensity and desire that they make it impossible. Throw in Omar’s horrific roster building job and Willie’s comatose style of managing and there just isn’t much to cheer on.
It’s a shame Shea’s last season is like this, but in a way it’s fitting. it came in with horrible teams, why not go out with one, too?
This team is so unlikeable I am actually happy this is happening. Omar plain and simply needs to be replaced. I believe he is the culprit, not Willie. It is the collection of players that wins or loses, not the manager. This was evident in 2006. Omar took long term risks on aging vets and it has burned the Mets badly. Not even sure how the Wilpons can face him. If they dont know by now that Oamr is a fraud then they need to sell the team.
The bigger problem is that when you allow this to happen for too long then it can have serious impacts on your young core (Wright, Reyes, etc.). Imagine how different a player Jeter would have been under these circumstances. Its like a piece of Wright dies each time he has to address the media about the Mets failures.
I just hope the Wilpons do not give Omar a pass this time. The one guy that has never taken an ounce of responsibility when things are bad is Omar. Did Willie decide to keep Delgado and Alou around? Did Willie decide to sign Castillo to a four year contract?
The Castillo contract alone should be grounds for dismissal. Can you imagine what we could do with that money? How can someone value him that highly, when you can get equal if not better production from a guy making minimum wage.
Bottom line is if these guys are tearing it up, kudos Omar. But the knife cuts both ways and he needs to step up and say I screwed up.
Did Omar get Santana? Did Omar get John Maine? Did Omar get Oliver Perez? Did Omar get Beltran? Did Omar get Pedro? Did Omar get Ryan Church? Did Omar get Schneider? Did Omar get Billy Wagner? Did Omar bring in Jose Valentin? Did Omar trade Jae Seo for Duaner Sanchez (possibly the biggest of the steals)? I can’t call Delgado a bad pick up….so did Omar get Delgado?
If the knife cuts both ways, then let’s call it like it is.
The problem with your argument is that half the guys you listed arent good pickups.
Oliver Perez has been servicable at best, clearly not dependable. Will give away games. Is bad more then good.
Beltran – good player. Problem is we paid him to be great.
Pedro (if he stays healthy) will have given us 2 years out of the 4 we paid him for.
Schneider are you really going to give Omar credit for that?
Duaner probably cost us 2006 championship. Made us get rid of Nady for Hernandez. BTW did not play all of 2007.
Trust me- Delgado was a BAD pickup.
Your handle alone says it all, you can thank Omar for that.
I apologize for any duplicates, they aren’t showing up on my computer.
Looks like none of them are showing up. Oh well.
It’s easy for a GM to toss money at successful veterans when their boss has deep pockets. ANY GM in Omar’s position could have signed Wags, Beltran, Alou and Pedro. It’s the small deals that make a GM, and Omar has generally failed in those, with guys like Brian Bannister, Heath Bell, Royce Ring, Matt Lindstrom and how many more out there holding their teams pens together.
Oliver Perez had one nice season, other than that he’s been a horse apple generally. D-
Sanchez was nice in 06, but he did nothing last year (literally) and he’s been really inconsistent in his comeback. Not sure I’d call that a great success, but since Seo did nothing afterwards, you can give Omar a C+ on that one.
Church and Schneider are good guys, but Schneider has nothing to give with the bat and his prowess behind the plate hasn’t done much for the club over what LoDuca did here, and Church probably won’t be playing the full season now nor were they running off with the division with him healthy. B- at best
The Delgado deal sent Jacobs to the Marlins…..he’s sure look sweet hitting 5th for the Mets these days, eh? Trading a decent power hitting 1B for an older one just because he speaks Spanish isn’t good play. At this rate, it’s an F
The only deal I give Omar credit for was the Benson-Maine trade. That’s the only place he’s really hustled someone. It’s a shame that he’s given so much credit for that one instead of what should be said: that the O’s GM was even worse. A
“Did Willie decide to keep Delgado and Alou around?”
Complain about keeping Alou around if you want, but Delgado is under contract. He has to be kept around or paid an enormous amount of money to not play.
I know it’s frustrating but you simply cannot blame Omar for Delgado’s current state of play.
You hit the nail on the head regis.
I think the mets fans expectations heightened with the 05 season. The mets became the favorites..something they have not been since the 80s. The mets have to me been the underdog and i do miss that mentality at times but we got a much better team now than we had in 91. We got a chance to do something here that was unthinkable in 91. What made me a mets fan was the scrappyness and heart the mets would give even if they lost. The mets fans have high expectations for this club seeing what they were capable of in 06…Sometimes though forgetting this is baseball and the mets are a regular team just like everyone else. We are not owed anything and we have to fight just like everyone else.
Hey, while it seems like it is the distant past, the 2006 team is not to far from this current team.
We are all wrestling with the ups and downs of this last year, but somewhere down deep we expect this team to make a run and make it interesting (of course, if they fall short, it will be blamed on a lousy start.) This team has to show some heart– if it doesn’t , it won’t look the same in 2009.
No matter what happens this year. next years team is going to look a lot different, with all of the expiring contracts, plus whatever ded wood to be cleared.
This is going to be a key off season for the future of the franchise. Even if this year never comes together, I am worried more about them screwing up the future.
I can live with a bad transition year, but I really don’t want them going back into the dark days!
Oh, you mean like trading Kazmir for Victor Zambrano?
i’d prefer rico brogna to delgado right now
Good post, Regis. I agree that I’ll take this team over any of the teams from the lean years. But, I think part of the fan base (myself included) is beginning to believe that this team cannot succeed. In the past four weeks, the Mets have had a seven-game homestand against two bad teams (Reds and Nats) and a seven-game road trip against two bad teams (Giants and Padres) and they went a combined 4-10 in those games. And that doesn’t take into account a four-game sweep against a mediocre Braves team. At some point this stops being a funk and becomes what this team really is: a .500 team.
Unfortunately I’m starting to feel the same way, that it’s more than just a funk. Time will tell of course, but they haven’t given me much reason to think otherwise. I skew toward the optimistic side of things, and it takes a lot for me to abandon hope. But, it certainly has been frustrating.
I for one do not expect this team to make any kind of a run. I would love to be wrong, but after watching all but a few west-coast games this season, I have come to the conclusion that the Mets will most like end this season with around 79-83 wins and about the same number of fans in the seats at the once proud Shea Stadium. It breaks my heart to imagine Shea 85% empty in the last week of the season, only to see Citi Arena packed everyday with stuffed shirts rooting for a bunch of underachieving, overpaid, “stars”.
I agree with this post. I think the key thing to remember in all of this, is that winning or losing shouldn’t be the reason why we have fun (as fans) watching baseball or going to the stadium. This is a great, great game no matter how the team does. Our lives are stressful enough, we don’t need to be stressed following a team. Just enjoy baseball!
Yes, the pressure of winning should be on the players, coaches, etc. But as fans, all we can do is root for our team, hope for the best, and believe. Once we’ve done that, we either have to accept the rough years and soak up the good years, or quit watching baseball. I choose to accept the rough years and soak up the good years – and enjoy it the entire time.
i’m with you, but to me the difference is how much of my life I’ll rearrange to watch the games. regardless, I’d say I’ll watch 80 games or so in a season, but a season like 2006 inspires me to argue for every last inning and get that number up to 150+. This weekend for example, I missed most of every game, had a fun weekend, didn’t argue with my wife about catching any of them, and when I checked the results, frankly I was relieved I didn’t waste my time.
Watching baseball is still fun, but I can’t take nearly as much losing baseball as I can winning baseball!
You obviously weren’t a fan in 1987 or 1988.
That’s actually a decent point. There were huge expectations of the 87 and 88 teams. Did the fans react the same?
If there was an outlet like this Web site, maybe? But our reactions are enhanced because of places like this blog, talk radio, etc.
as I’ve posted here before, I remember going to games in the late 80s at shea and afterwards listening to talk radio as everyone called for Davey’s head and talked about how lifeless the team was. I remember a particular game when Gregg Jeffries sparked a bench clearer, everyone was talking about how it might wake up an unenergetic team, etc etc etc. Same as it ever was.
FWIW, if you listen to mike & the maddog, you’ll hear yankees fans saying almost exactly the same things we hear here (no life, no guts, no passion, etc etc).
There were fewer ways to get to the postseason those days, so finishing second and out of the playoffs was much more easily accepted. The 87 team had 10 pitchers on the DL!!!! So fans tempered their expectations a bit. 88 was frustrating, but they did make the postseason.
Part of all this too is that the Yankees were awful then so the city belonged to the Mets win or lose.
Also the run by the Yankees in the late 90s gave fans of both teams these unrealistic expectations of “winning it all.”
Lastly, the teams in 87 and 88 were just far more interesting to watch. There was a TON of personality on those clubs.
The most interesting thing about the Cone re-broadcast
was that Frank Cashen said the Phillies offered Dykstra back to the Mets after the ‘89 season for Samuel.
The 1991 Mets were not expected to fail, they just did not succeed, two entirely different things.
Beat me to it. The team fell short of projection that season. It had depth at pitching and the lineup turned into an underachieving bust except for HOJO. I stopped watching them for a month cause i was so stressed out. When i went back to watching them we were almost in first. Then the whole season went to crap in an instance.
I was 8 years old in 1986 and became a mets and giants fan due to a world series win and a superbowl triumph. I geuss I am a frontrunner from the get go, but I have been a die hard ever since, and I am nothing but loyal to both teams. I eat breath and sleep giants football and mets baseball and I can honestly say the greatest year of my sports life was 2007/08 giants football, and it is for the simple reason that I didn’t expect it. I wanted to go to the playoffs and nothing more. The rest was gravy, some of the best gravy I have ever, or will ever taste.
Due to the superbowl win I have done my best to temper my expectations for the mets, but with the collapse it has been hard. I will watch at least 120 games and I will live and die with every win and loss, but I will step back this year. I willl realize I am not a met no matter how many times I say “we won” or “we lost.” I will realize I don’t know what happens in the clubhouse, and no matter what I see on the field I don’t actually know who wants it more. I will enjoy my life and hope that the mets will be winnners but I will no longer let the losses affect me (easier said then done). I will root for what is here no matter what, and I will give my opinion and realize it won’t be heard because I am not in the wilpon family. I will always love watching jose reyes play and I will hope for a championship but expect nothing. I do not pay anyones salary, I cannot change back the hands of time for carlos delgado or pedro martinez (who are so sadly just getting old) and I cannot make fmart older or fix heilmans mechanics, BUT I WILLL STAY POSITIVE AND HOPE FOR THE BEST, BECUASE I AM NOT A MET, I AM SIMPLY A FAN.
Yell and scream all you like, it will get you nowhere. uggh for game sweep in SAN DIEGO…………..I WILL STAY POSITIVE.
Very good post. There is a big disconnect between performance and expectations.
“I would still rather have a team that I believe can succeed than one I expect to fail”
So would I. I just don’t think we do anymore. Which is good!
Pretty soon we can get back to being pleasantly surprised when the Mets win a few games!
Bipolar is how I described the Mets this year also. It’s go to know that other people know EXACTLY how I feel about this team.
good to know*
The Wipons have to jettison Omar and also have to stop honoring Selig on slotting . . . start now on a thorough search for the best current assistant GM type working for other teams who is ready to move up to the next level and then focus on re-building this franchise through draft picks and trades to re-stock the farm system in order to win for a sustained period of time . . . Omar’s ways are the past, look at how even teams like the Royals are locking up their best young talent.
Look at the Red Sox are doing. They have a high payroll and their system is stocked with good prospects. That’s why they are going to be good for a long time.
oh, you mean, like how he locked up Reyes and Wright, and then in 2007 and 2008 lower payroll teams follow suit, so they are really really smart…duh
Awesome post Regis. Between the fanbase and the media its hard work just letting baseball be fun; win or lose.
What a loser mentality this whole post has, comments included. I would much rather expect a win and have a heartbreak than expect losing and be thrilled with a win. The team is playing like crap and definately deserve to be questioned, but I would rather deal with falling on our faces after lofty expectations (like this year) than be the lovable losers that we all became accustomed to.
I agree with you rsman! This is New York, not Pittsburgh or some other small market team that expects to lose every single year and go around saying things Like I’m hearing on this post. “We love our team no matter what, we know they are bad and our ownership is cheap but we love the game of baseball and we don’t care about the standings, just want to see our boys have fun.” Give me a break! Loser mentality is right. Not in New York baby. No way.
don’t live in the past
mackey sasser is gone.
“these days are gone.”
I think back to 2005 when few of us expected playoffs, but we expected to improve a bit and hopefully play .500 ball. And we did better than that – finished 4 games over .500. Indeed, that was a fun season, as was 2006. obviously. They played hard, they left it on the field.
This team, however, is not as much fun to watch (for me, at least) because while they’ll play their hearts out one week, they come back the next laying goose eggs and looking like they literally left their ability on the field wherever they played previously.
We all know this is difficult, especially combined with the expectations that were heaped on it once Santana was acquired.
They should be better, but they’re not. They should look like they’re playing their a$$es off everyday, but they don’t. And we, the fans, should be cheering for a first place team right now, but we’re not. We’re disappointed, and I’m sure the players are too.
The 2005 team is a way better example then the 1991 team. 05 we had no expectations but were building with Pedro and Carlos. 1991 had a good pitching staff and good lineup (on paper). They underachieved just like the 2008 Mets.
I remember the 84 season as something special, as a bunch of no names and kids (and Hernandez) came together and finally started to win, culminating in ‘86.
Part of what made those teams of the mid 80s so special to me was the fact that the players were either home-grown, gotten in minor league trades, and in a few cases, major league ones as well. There were no big money free agents who you viewed as mercenaries. When one of those guys struggled, you felt for him. You didn’t get mad at him. They were our guys and we were there fans. They won for themselves and they won for us as well. At least it felt that way.
Two of the most popular Mets today are Wright and Reyes, and that’s because they are home-grown.
Mookie, Backman, Dykstra, Gooden, Strawberry, McDowell. All home grown. Carter gotten in a trade. Keith gotten in a trade. Hojo gotten in a trade.
El Sid, Darling, plucked jewels from somebody else’s minor league system. Orosco too.
It’s not a pure comparison as Delgado and Johann were gotten in trades, but they still come with a mercenary feel to me.
I miss the kids coming up and exciting us. That’s what I miss most about these Mets.
I hope Carp (.351 now!!!!) and Murphy and Evans end up being the real deal. I hope Niese is too. I hope the kids we draft are good and they stick around. That’s what will make the Mets fun again, win or lose.
Good example.
I couldn’t agree more. The Mets and the Yankees are now comparable to the hapless Knicks. There are too many overpriced mercenaries with flashy skills or credentials, but no heart, desire or leadership skills. If this continues, I say sit the veterans and let the kids play and see what they can do.
Comparing the mid 1980s to now with the hopes of pinning guys as mercenaries is silly. The makeup and economics of the game was entirely different, but make now mistake Hernandez and Carter were dealt because the teams they played for, especially in the case of Carter did not want to pay him at that stage of their careers.
Carter was much a mercenary if not more so than Delgado or Santana.
I don’t disagree with you, and as I said, the comparison isn’t pure. But I would argue that the current economics of the game are more in line with how the Mets assembled that group (with the exception of trading for good young prospects) than the way the Mets are currently going about assembling their roster.
Today is all about the home-grown player. The best teams have put that on display. The Mets seem to have gotten that memo late.
And as for Carter being a mercenary, sure. But what about ALL those other players I listed? Backman, Strawberry, McDowell, Mookie, Dykstra, etc.
I don’t think that Carter or Hernandez were mercenaries. Carter spent his first 10 years with the Expos and was traded away, along with several other Expos veterans, as the team was looking to rebuild. Hernandez was dumped by the Cardinals because Herzog was worried about alledged Keith’s drug usage. They weren’t traded because the teams did not want to pay them.
Delgado, on the other hand, was a free agent and signed with the Marlins a year before their fire sale.
In 1984, the Mets average player salary was only 10th out of 12 teams in the NL and 20th in all of baseball when they got Keith. In 1985 they were 5th highest in the NL, and 12th overall when they got Gary. They were staying well within the economics of baseball back then and not overspending as they are now.
Carter was most definitely traded because the Expos didn’t want to pay him. If you scroll to my original post I said that both Keith and Kid didn’t feel like mercenaries to me. I ceded the point because Carter probably was closer to that than any other. Certainly Keith was not.
EH, I’d take the firecracker/bleach teams over this one, even the Tony Tarasco-Mark Corey “Up in Smoke” team because you darned well KNEW change was guaranteed come the end of the season
A few quick hits:
1. I don’t remember expecting that ‘91 team to lose.
2. It is worse watching a team expected to win lose the way this team has.
3. Who picked this team to make the World Series? Not me.
Well, IMO, this year is different than last year for the very reason that the negative guy discoumts. After this year, no matter the outcome, there WILL be major changes coming (assuming Omar resists the temptation to renew any of the shot geezers).
For this season, other than Santana and Church, it was largely carry over, including the injured old dudes. Well, those contracts expire, along with some others, so there should be wholesale changes coming.
No idea if we will see guys out of the minors winning jobs, new guys traded for, a FA. But there will be some new faces.
And even better, no more injured old guys holding the team hostage!
Alou, Duque, Delgado, probably Perez, Maybe Pedro, most of the bench, and who knows what else.
Just moving to a 1B and LF of the future (assuming they do, instead of old stop gaps) will be a huge lift for the fanbase.
Heck, I would be happy to see Carp and Murphy come up right now to share time at 1B (and get some experience, regardless of the outcome) and LF, and hope that they get at least 1 2009 starter out of it.
And I will predict here, again, that if they do sign Teix ot a huge deal, it will be a total bust, and they will end up with another 30+ guy whos best years were in the past.
Not owed anything are you kidding me Sanchez.. Mets fans ARE OWED something. There owed a team that plays with passion, hustle, heart, and pride, something this team has NOTHING OF. Between the ticket prices Mets fans pay, and the fact the Mets have the highest payroll in the National League, this team should be better, screw expectations that’s a fact. Mets fans shouldn’t be upset with a team where the backup catcher “oversleeps” on the day he is starting and blames it on the time change when he has been on the West Coast ALL WEEK. The players don’t care then why should we? Back in 1991 and even before that, there was always a guy or guys that always hustled, that got there uniform dirty, that you could respect and or root for. Who is the guy on this team, yea I can’t think of him either.
David Wright, come on. He might not be flashy but he always dives for a ball and busts his butt.
you don’t think the team played with passion this weekend?
they lost because they gotten beaten, no amount of passion puts the ball Wright hit in the gap in that park, no amount of passion makes Feliciano’s pitch any better or worse, and then yesterday the team did everything could and more only to have Wagner have a bust outing in the worst spot possible.
It is not passion, they are just not good.
Couldn’t agree more. Everyone on this blog and calling the FAN seems to forget that guess what – The teams the mets play are actually trying to win the games too! They pithced great in three games – and hit well on Sunday. They don’t put it together (or haven’t as of yet) but to just say they have no heart makes no sense.
there is a reply button you know..any way here we go
“Not owed anything are you kidding me Sanchez.. Mets fans ARE OWED something. There owed a team that plays with passion, hustle, heart, and pride, something this team has NOTHING OF. Between the ticket prices Mets fans pay, and the fact the Mets ”
I was addressing the team not the fans when i discussed the owed portion. The team is not owed a ticket to the postseason based off their sucess the last season(as the 07 team played like). This year everyone knew it was going to be a dog fight. The mets are not the favorites in the NL anymore. That time has come and gone and we could not capitolize. Yes as a fan you pay to see your team play. THERE IS NO GUARENTEE THEY WILL WIN and if you feel because you pay for a ticket/parking/food w/e the team should automatically win…you are in the wrong sport(if there is a sport that has those guarentees). As far as pride, passion…etc…I think that is easily confused with execution. Of course a team that does not execute consistantly is going to be viewed as a team with no heart/passion w/e. Do you believe the phils and marlins play with more passion and heart than the mets because they are winning or because they are executing more consistantly. The mets are not executing when the have to bottom line..it has nothing to do with heart/passion..etc.
“and the fact the Mets have the highest payroll in the National League, this team should be better, screw expectations that’s a fact”
Can people please not base their expectations on payroll…ask the yankees how that has gone for them.
“Mets fans shouldn’t be upset with a team where the backup catcher “oversleeps” on the day he is starting and blames it on the time change when he has been on the West Coast ALL WEEK. The players don’t care then why should we”
Yes you are entitled to be upset but i doubt castro woke up late because “he did not care”. These guys are human. Willie did the right thing in benching him for the game. What more do you want. You want them to cut castro because he woke up late for ONE game. He got benched and fined i think that enough.
“Back in 1991 and even before that, there was always a guy or guys that always hustled, that got there uniform dirty, that you could respect and or root for. Who is the guy on this team, yea I can’t think of him either”
Alou(when healthy…stealing home remember…), Reyes, Wright, Church, Beltran(playing cf), Endy, Delgado(for a few games), Santana(stretching singles into doubles in his ab)…..
At least the ‘91 team was entertaining OFF the field. Watching the ‘08 Mets is like watching the cast of Cocoon trying to play baseball, every single night.
You really get great inside to how pathetic this franchise has been by watching the Mets “Classics.” They’re really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
‘96 vs. Astros – Butch Huskey strikes out 6 times.
‘90 vs. Phillies – Gregg Jeffries farts in catcher’s face
‘88 vs. Giants – Sid Fernandez eats sandwich in between pitches
so true, soon sny will air the “other” David Cone game involving the incident in the bullpen.
As I’ve been saying all along, we’ll all be happier if we are realistic about our expectations in light of the injuries that have beset this team. Our expectations were attached to the idea that several players would be in the line-up regularly—and certain pitchers would pitch regularly. Passion has nothing to do with it…nor does strategy, for the most part…Injuries account for a lot of what ails this team in the loss column…
Our #2 pitcher (Pedro) and 3 of our 5 projected outfielders (Moises Alou, Angel Pagan, and Ryan Church) have missed how many games total? Why does anyone expect this team to win more than half the time with one hand tied behind its back?
I am encouraged by the recent pitching performances and by the way Delgado’s been hitting. I think the team has played some stellar defense as well. Wins would have been nice but there’s something to build on here…if we can get and stay healthy.
I think this team was built on a ton of “ifs.” If Pedro returns to form we win. If Alou can play 120 games we’ll be good. If El Duque can stay healthy we’re in good shpe. If Delgado hits again like he did in 2006 we have a strong lineup. If Sanchez returns from injury and pitches like 2006 we have a strong bullpen. If Schneider can handle the staff we have a strong receiver and we can forgive the bat. If OP can match or better last year we are golden. If Endy is Endy of old and Marlon matches the pinch hitting he is capable of we have a strong bench. If Reyes can match the way he was and the beginning of the season last year we have the best player in baseball. Too many “ifs”.
Agree. The Braves are having the same problems with injuries as the Mets. Chipper and John S. out. If games were played on paper the Mets would be right up there in the standings.
I think we are seeing a team not unlike the post ‘86 and ‘88 teams– very high expectations but falling quite a bit short.
That all being said, if we can somehow keep Church and Alou (and Pedro) on the field for something like 6-8 weeks, we have a real chance of putting together a run. The problem is that, even if we do that, we need 12-14 weeks of it now, and that’s hard to fathom. I see the Mets winning 85-86 games this year— don’t think it will be enough for the division, and probably not enough for the wildcard.
Ever read the book ‘The Worst Team Money Could Buy?’ You should. The early 90s Mets, like this bunch, had a bloated payroll (one of the highest in the majors) and big expectations. They also stunk up Shea. There is no reason to get all misty about the 1991 club. Among all their other wonderful qualities, they were also involved in a sexual assault scandal.
1991 was a horribly disappointing season. Mets finished strong in 1990 after Harrelson took over for Davey Johnson, and were pretty much favored to win the division if not the NL. Their rotation was Viola Cone Gooden Darling and Fat Sid….
1992 was the Worst Team Money Could Buy..
the low expectations didn’t start ’til 1994-1995…there was some fun with that…
Oh come on MH, don’t start with the injury bug excuse. Every team goes through injuries during a season. Maybe if we had a real bench instead of the worst in the National League we could win some games. Who’s fault is that, oh yea that’s right the GM’s. Patrick you are right this team is no good, but what I mean by passion is they show no fight, they get down, they stay down. You think the 86, 88, or even 06 Mets would stand for losing three straight 2-1 games.
@EV—Injury is not an excuse, it’s a fact. …Are Church and Alou and Pedro bit players…? You don’t think their presence and performance makes a difference in the overall performance of this team? Meanwhile, our projected bench was Pagan (how many games has he missed after having STARTED how many games?), Endy ( also injured early on), Easley (didn’t he miss several games?) and Marlon Anderson (when did he last play?), and I believe Valentin (not in a game yet) as well….That too has been depleted because of injuries and because bench players are starting, forcing call-ups or forcing Willie to manage short-handed time and time again….Injuries as excuses? That’s what high school coaches tell their kids to make sure they don’t think they’ve lost before playing the game…These injuires account for much of the inconsistency. They also make it so players like Wright and Reyes and Beltran can’t take a day off because the team needs them too much…and it makes it so the team hesitates to put Church on the DL ,as they should have, because they are already short handed.
Watching a team with low expectations is more enjoyable. In 1983, I went to many games by walking up to the advance sale window ten minutes before game time and asking for “tonight’s game,one behind home plate, loge reserved”. I think the price was $7. I had no expectations. The ballpark was mostly empty (we may have been last in the league in attendance that year). But we acquired Hernandez, Strawberry’s rookie season, Seaver’s return…it was pleasureable even when we didn’t win. I’d trade that year for this one any day.
Would it have been as ‘pleasurable’ to you to watch Hernandez aquisition or Straw’s rookie season if they had never won in 86? I doubt it. With out WINNING in 86 the Stache would not be even close to the icon he is for the Mets now and Straw wouldnt be loved for helping the Mets WIN a ring in 86 but for how great he could have been if he wasn’t a complete @$$-hole. Games should be fun, sure, regardless of winning and losing you should have fun with your kids at the game and generally enjoy them. However there is a reason you could get prime seating minutes before game time. Because people don’t like losing, they dont like going to a game where a team is expected to lose…people love winning.
Same goes for the underdog theory. People don’t remember underdogs unless they win! People remember the US win over Russia in the olympics and Villanova in the NCAA tourny. But 5 years from now noone will remember the rockies underdog run to the WS or George Mason’s run to the Final 4 (I bet most people already forgot them). Winning isn’t everything. Its the only thing.
1991 was an extremely disappointing season. The Mets were expected to contend, and in fact were in contention until mid-July. After an 11-game win streak in early July, they collapsed. Sound familiar?
Pretty much the whole decade of the 1990s, except for the wonderful 1997, was full of disappointments.
yeah, i’m lost here regis, 1991 brought high expectations and actually a pretty good team up until right above the all-star break.
i actually remember listening to a sweep at the hands of the pirates that july and even as a kid who had never followed a bad team, i knew the jig was up.
that’s how i feel now, actually.
That era just reminds me of how much less stressed out I was when watching the Mets and although I seem to have done so, I didn’t mean to single out the ‘91 team per se. True I was only about 13 at the time, but I expected less and it was easier on my psyche.
Although I agree that watching a team with lower expectations that overachieves is more fun than watching a team with high expectations flop.
Low expectations, overachievement: 1969, 1973, 1976, 1984, 1995, 1997
High expectations, underachievement: 1970, 1972, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1998, 2001, 2002, 2007, 2008
Although really I just like winning regardless of the expectations.
Good historical perspective. Everybody loves the underdog.
And their payroll in 1997 was only 15th or 17th overall depending on what records you use.
I wouldn’t call the ownership cheap, they do have the highest payroll in the NL, just stupid.
I was reffering to the other small market teams with the loser mentality. That’s exactly my point, we have the highest payroll and it’s one of the main reasons why Met fans shouldn’t just reserve ourselves to accept this type of play.