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At the Huffington Post, Dave Hollander examines how immeasurable the arrival of Cliff Floyd is to a team.
According to Hollander, wherever Floyd goes, his teams are impacted ‘as if before Floyd got there not only weren’t they winning but his teams appeared to have little idea how to win.’
Hollander breaks down the following examples of the Floyd Factor:
Marlins: In 1996, the team was 80-82, finishing 3rd in the NL East. Floyd joins the team in 1997. They go 92-70 and win the World Series.
Mets: In 2001, the team was 75-86, finishing 5th in the NL East. Floyd joins the club in 2003. Three seasons later the Mets are one strike away from going to the World Series.
Cubs: In 2006, the team was 66-96, finishing last in the NL Central. Floyd joins the team in 2007 and they go 85-77, winning the NL Central.
Rays: Since their inception in 1998, this franchise has only finished above last place in their division once. They have never won more than 70 games in a season, and reached that meager total but once. Floyd joins the team this season and they are leading AL East through the first third of the season. Their record has been at times the best in baseball.
Floyd typically doesn’t carry teams, nor is he the best player, however there is something about his presence which Hollander sums up the best by stating:
“You can’t measure a conversation that instructs or motivates or takes pressure off. You can’t quantify a well timed joke that eases tension in the clubhouse. Or a look that reassures. Or a skillful deflection of the media away from a player who can’t handle it. Or a million other little things that go into the relationships that are bonded over the course of season together. These are the human qualities that elude objective statistical analysis. But they’re crucial to creating a winning team. In order to win, especially to win a championship, it’s not simply about being the best player but about making other teammates play better.”
…this is a great read…uncle cliffy was one of my favorite Mets…i never realized he had such an impact for the teams he played on…i guess that is why, if i remember correctly, many of the players, including David Wright, wanted him back in 2007.
…by the way…is there evidence of him being able to resuscitate a team twice…
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Has anybody calculated the Abe Nunez effect?
when he was traded to the Red Sox, he helped them finish 24 games over .500 but still not make the playoffs… 2 years later….
they broke the curse
There is an unrecognized personality that he brings to a team. I actually had the luxury of doing a shot of straight Grey Goose with Uncle Cliff and DW at a club called Posh back in 06… when the team WAS actually a team….. those were the days! And if I remember correctly, Cliff hit a HR in his 1st at bat the next afternoon
Note; since not being resigned by the Mets, Cliff Floyd has played 132 Games, 51 Runs, 14 HR’s (Including walk off), 59 RBI while batting .272
Alou has only played 101 Games, 55 Runs, 13 HR’s, 56 RBI however he hit .340
Alou put up some good numbers but Floyd actually played in 30 more games… plus we actually Like Floyd!
Yes, but Moises Alou is NOT a nice guy. Cliff was the man. His ATTITUDE is sorely missed
I’ve been saying this since he left. Uncle Cliff was hugely important as a team leader.
Maybe if his name was Cliff Fernandez or Feliciano, etc, Minaya would have signed him to a 4 year 25 million dollar contract. . . or does he need to have bad knees too?
The Mets need some Lee Fine (a.k.a Matt Williams) in their clubhouse. He could come to bat to the song “Down with the Thickness” by Goddsmack. Subway down the right-field line would be replaced by a Perkins stand. Could you imagine the attendance at July’s Aunt Jemima night hosted by Bisquick?
Mmmmmmmm………..syrup……
The Mets need some Lee Fine (a.k.a Matt Williams) in their clubhouse. He could come to bat to the song “Down with the Thickness” by Goddsmack. Subway down the right-field line would be replaced by a Perkins stand. Could you imagine the attendance at July’s Aunt Jemima night hosted by Bisquick?
Mmmmmmmm………..syrup……
Context?
Remember when he went to the Expos? And then they moved out of the country!
A few weeks ago, I told my co-worker that he is the one guy that is missing from this team that really made an impact. Especially in the locker room.
and Nady.
Nady was on the team for like 2 weeks….what the heck did he really do here that the fans love him so much, I don’t get it? Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t dislike him, and I wouldn’t be upset if the Mets got him back, but he really didn’t make that big of an impact on me, and I’m curious why his name is mentioned in every “what’s wrong with the Mets” thread. You’d think the guy won 3 MVP awards here or something.
“What the heck did he really do here that the fans love him so much, I don’t get it?”
He hit! Also going 5 for 5 on opening day was great too. He’s a nice right handed bat to have in the lineup.
“He hit!”
yep, he hit ..264/.326/.487, 14 HR in 75 games, for an OPS+ of 107. That’s decent, but it still fails to tell me why so many Mets fans have a hard-on for the guy. Derek Bell hit .313/.395/.485 and 10 homers through his first 75 games with the Mets, yet you never heard anyone clamoring for him to come back to save the season when the Mets were struggling in 2001 and 2002. And Derek Bell had flash and charisma, so it’s not like he was dead weight. Again, what, exactly is it about Xavier Nady that people are so obsessed with?
this is the exact reason why you cant look only at stats when talking about baseball.
Nady played hard all the time. Alot like church does. He played a solid D, and had a great attitude… alot like cliff.
Its not always the all-stars that win or lose games (although he could be one this year)… its the other guys… the guys we dont have this year.
Derek Bell was a punk.
I miss Cliff… he was a good Met. Thanks for the post…
I’d take Cliff on this team. Anybody that deny’s that the personality and make-up of a team is an important part of a winning ball club is out of thier mind. See: the 2006 Mets, 1986-1988 Mets, Mets of the late 90’s, 1969 Mets, etc etc……
Guys like Floyd and Valentin are obviously missed, more than any of us (the fan, the WFAN host, or any beat writer) can come close to comprehending.
OK, here’s the thing. We all love the METS and after 2006 we are wanted and thought that 2007 would be the year, it was not. Now in 2008 we still want it and we look at the team with blinders on. We dont see t he problems and holes we ignore them and think that faith and hope is enough to win, ITS NOT. This is a 500 team, thats all folks, nothing more and nothing less. We still have a few good games left in us and some great come from behind wins that will make us all remember that 2006 feeling, for a moment. But, when the season is over we will be a 500 team in the middle of the pack. I like to think of 2001. We got hot and played great at the end, but, fell short after giving it a run. That is what we will do in 2008. We will hang back and then catch fire and all our hopes will soar and we will all believe that this is our year and then, back down to earth. Im OK with that. It was OK for all the other years as a MET fans, so why should I expect anything other than that now? Lets have fun watch the games and be happy that baseball is back. We can cheer and Boo and have fun and know that in the end October is the end for us.
that article right from the make something out of nothing file….
he had nothing to do with the marlins success…he was injured most of the time leading up to the 1997 WS.
i’m sure he’s providing good vet leadership with the rays, just as he did with the 2004-2005 mets, but let’s not get crazy. the teams he has provided leadership for have won EXACTLY NOTHING.
…and i like cliffy…
I guess there’s a line drawn between the cup empty and the cup full argument. There have been plenty of players in all sports who have quiet performances but provide a lift to their team that helps them play better as a whole. It’s not something that’s measurable, but no writer can ever write this kind of story without extensive research - talking to ex-teammates, coaches, etc.
One thing we know for sure, everyone liked Cliff here in NY. And there were even weeks when he did carry the team. The bottom line can be that he was a non-factor, but it can also be that he was a huge contributor to the team’s success. Personally, I was very disappointed when he wasn’t resigned, but my guess is, he wanted to start and the Mets were offering a bench role (if anything). Would he have made a difference last year? Perhaps. But in reality, if looking at the numbers (and baseball IS a numbers game), his performance wasn’t anything special.
Haha and instead we brought in Alou who’s probably played even LESS time than cliff has over the last year
I liked Cliff, but it is a stretch especially with the Marlins in 1997 and forgetting the Mets sucked horribly in 2003 and 2004.
If this is a serious article than it is very poorly done.
Floyd is great, you always have to root him on no matter where he is. Atta boy Floyd
I dunno, I am hearing way too much about
“clunhouse presence”.
Pedro was gonna light up the team’s spirit,
Valentin and that 90 year old X brave were like coaches,
Delgado the restrained but dignified leader. Maybe we need better
coaches.psychiatrists, or comedians to liven up the club?
Most of these character guys are trying to stave father time.
I do think Chemistry means something because a confident
happy team with as much talent as ours usually wins.
Cliff was the guy who told the mets brass to bring up Reyes
and gave him the tough love he needed to get out of the trainers room and become a star ( for a minute).
Cliff was also a lefty Alou..could never stay on the field.
I hope metsblog refrains from linking to “The Huffington Post” in the future. Even if it is an article about Cliffy.
Really? Pretty good website, in my experience.
With you on this one, I am very politically motivated but prefer to see my mets and my politics firmly seperated.
We live in a world of synergy. As long as Obama or McCain aren’t taking pictures with the Homerun Apple, we’ll be okay.
just pick Floyd or Valentin to replace Willie. Problem solved!
I have commented numerous times on the impact of floyd. He was a leader.
Why do people think managers don’t need previous experience? Keith Hernadez on SNY said, ” the manager sets it up and the players make it happen.”
Besides, the Mets would need a player with the charisma of Beltran or Robinson G. Cancel to take over.
I love Cliff and wanted him back, but I am not sure he really had anything to do with turning the Mets around. I believe the year your are referencing with the 75-86 was 2002, they were a respectable team in 01. But anyway, they actually got worse immediately following Cliff’s arrival losing 95 in 03 and 91 in ‘04 before reaching some level of respectability again in ‘05. If Cliff was the transformer as he is claimed to be, why did it take 3 years and virtually a complete overhaul of the team to get the Mets back to respectability and playoff caliber. I think it had way more to do with the development of Wright and Reyes, and the additions of guys like Beltran, Delgado, Pedro which all seemed to coincidentally come around ‘05-06. I think the same can be said for the Fish in ‘97 too. The loaded up on big time players, thats why they won.
That being said I do I think the Mets miss Cliff’s leadership to a certain extent. It probably would be good to have someone like that to be one of those guys who can be that guy who stands up in the clubhouse and/or the media b/c clearly the veterans that we have in Beltran, Delgado, etc don’t want to be that guy and all that stuff seems to be unfairly thrust upon Wright and Wagner who as he said himself is the closer and making him be one of the mouthpieces of the team everyday in games he doesnt pitch in is silly.
Gary Sheffield has been on some pretty good teams and some pretty bad ones and he’s generally not considered the best guy in the clubhouse.
Oh, and Barry Bonds has been on some good teams too. I wonder if he’s good for the clubhouse.
Sheffield was never the primary guy in any clubhouse. He was on winning teams with Fred McGriff, Tony Gwynn, Floyd, Moises Alou, Derek Jeter, Al Leiter, Ricky Henderson. etc……
All those guys are either clubhouse leaders, or had proven careers that forced people to listen to what they had to say.
Yeah no.
youre just not buying the coincidence having relevance are you mr dubb?
“Coincidence.” You said it.
By this article’s logic, Reggie Sanders should have been a hot commodity in his heyday.
what i miss most about cliffy is definitely his blog.
Anyone who read my blog in 2006 knows how much I loved Cliff. So what do we think: Given the intangibles he provides in the clubhouse (which he certainly did for the Mets) and the number of games Alou has missed due to injury, should we have kept Cliffy?
Clifford was my favorite while he was here. Very disappointed to see him go.
this is just a coincidence and not a trend and just horrendous cause/effect analysis:
1997- adding moises alou, bobby bonilla, edgar renteria, alex fernandez, livan hernandez, darren daulton, and jimmy leyland might have had something to do with that world series ring
2006: mets: first of all, this guy needs to do his research. the mets won 82 games in 2001, and 75 in 2002. in 2003 and 2004, the mets won 66 and 71 games respectively. i think the mets surge in ‘06 had something to do with adding beltran, pedro, wright, reyes, maine, delgado, wagner, etc and firing art howe, a manager who makes willie seem like casey stengel.
2007: cubs: added soriano and lee played only 50 games in ‘06.
Does anyone know when the Rained out Mets-Yanks game will be made up- I havent seen any posting for a Double-Dip yet- and its only a few weeks away???
for those who want kenny lofton to come to the mets, realize he is the unluckiest player in the history of the MLB:
1995: lost in world series
1996: lost in ALDS
1997: lost in NLCS
1998: lost in ALCS
1999:lost in ALDS
2001: lost in ALDS
2002: lost in world series (giants were up 5-0 in game 6 vs the angels)
2003: lost in NLCS- bartman series
2004: lost in ALCS (3-0 comeback)
2006: lost in NLDS (swept by the mets)
2007: lost in ALCS (indians blew a 3-1 lead to the bosox)
if whats written about cliff floyd is true, lofton is the anti-cliff. 0 for 11 in the playoffs, and he was involved in 3 of the greatest disappointments in the history of baseball
wow minus 2000 and 2005 he’s been there every year since 95. this is a stat gamblers could utilize this upcoming post season if he makes his way onto a playoff team
I’ll gladly take a disappointment in the postseason this year. Or last year for that matter.
The key phrase there is “in the postseason.”
agreed
There is nothing like postseason baseball with your team on the tube! I did not miss an inning of the 2006 NLDS or NLCS. Just love that #@$%.
eliporter … relex mr. alieass sports bureau
Alou 2007-
VORP 32.6
Warp 4.1
Floyd 2007-
VORP 9.6
WARP 1.8
Screw intangibles, there is no argument to be made here. The Mets are far far this argument is just plain dumb better with Alou instead of Floyd.
Using similar analysis, one can prove an inverse relationship between the global Pirate population and global warming. Clearly the disappearance of Pirate’s is responsible for global warming. What a waste of space this article was.
Careful with your analogies, PhillR: pirates have been making a comeback. See http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/pirates.htm
But of course your point is quite correct.
I’m sorry but according to FSMism, if you don’t use a cutlass you aren’t a pirate. End of discussion.
Plus the Mets were heavy on the left side, and needed the righty bat of Alou.
perhaps there is a cancer in the locker room besides willie. no one mentions who the good guys are until they are gone, unless its pedro and he’s out in the open dancing. perhaps there is disunity that no one talks about. could heilman be a real pill? what about beltran? he seems like he could be antisocial? i’m serious though. something is afoot here.
Yes.
It’s called attitude. “when we get our guys back we’ll be OK” When Pedro comes back, we’ll be OK
When Alou comes back, we’ll be OK
When El Duque comes back, we’ll be OK
When blah blah blah comes back, we’ll be OK
It’s a mindset that we’re not serious, that “it’s only game BS” that just wastes game after game after game.
Sickening…
Miss good guys like Cliff
So then the Omar should go out and sign the “The Whopper”, Billy Paultz, since no matter where he landed, his team always made the playoffs
“In 2001, the team was 75-86, finishing 5th in the NL East. Floyd joins the club in 2003. Three seasons later the Mets are one strike away from going to the World Series.”
Can someone please help me to understand what that last statement means? In what way would one strike have guaranteed the Mets the NL pennant in 2006?
I think he probably meant “one pitch away from the World Series” in that if someone had gotten a big hit with 2 men on in the bottom of the 10th, they could have won the game (hey, look, we’re talking about Cliff Floyd again).
if cliff floyd was on the 1986 red sox, stanley doesn’t throw a wide pitch and/or buckner makes that play at first base in game 6.
or if he was the flight director at NASA during the mercury program we would have beat the Soviets into space and Alan Shepherd would have been the first astronaut. Its all timing and leadership.
if Floyd had been Prime Minister in 1938, hw would have convinced Hitler he was wrong, forcing him to give back Austria, and retire to a career of painting.
We complain about how old this team is and some people want Cliff Floyd back? Umm…no thanks.
Thank you!
I think that it’s a reflection on the state of the team that we’re all, including Matt, reaching to explain their demise. So we’re picking apart the players that have left trying to identify the precise moment thing started to go wrong. It is counter-intuitive for fans of any team to concede that their team is poor one third into a season of any sport. Even more so for fans who have high expectations.
Don’t take the responsibility away from these players for their play.
More importantly always remember:
Expectations are the building blocks of disappointment!
Doctor Shackleford I presume?
The only way to stop this collapse is through transdental electromicide. I’ll need a golf cart motor and a thousand volt capacimator, stat
I don’t think there are that many realistic folks that think Floyd could really help. But he’d make a great coach. it’s the attitude that is missing.
Floyd brought his lunchpail every day. There’s only one guy on this roster right now who displays that character — and he doesn’t even know what day it is (Church).
I loved Floyd but he was another one who would get hurt every other week. Was time to move on.
Go Cliff.
I bet his brother works security for Tampa Bay now (as he did with the Mets).
Rays vs Cubs 2008 World Series.
Rays in 6.
In your face Lou.
A) left devil rays because he sucked for them.
B) didn’t push to get Cliff back.
This article is poppycock.
Players contribute to teams by reaching base or driving in runs. No evidence suggests that fostering a player-friendly culture in the clubhouse leads to more victories. And don’t try listing examples! I could list as many examples of winning teams that were bored all season.
These are professional athletes. Except in very rare instances, they’re not trying to make outs because they’re annoyed at other players speaking Spanish or because their manager’s a curmudgeon. It just doesn’t work that way.
As much as I love the movie Major League, as serious fans we have to acknowledge it’s fiction. “Intangibles” do not lead to more runs.
omar are you saying just sign bonds and trade for griffey?
I think that what you said
I think you are pretty much dead wrong. Do you work in an office? Have you ever noticed that well-run, friendly offices are generally far more productive than ones where the employees don’t get along? It’s all about productivity, and people are more productive when they are happy. Why are baseball players magically considered to be above this, just because we keep statistics on them?
Have we all lost our minds
What this team needs is to be remade screw cliff floyd
Fire omar and his entourage
Trade beltran to the cubs there the only team that will pay him
Release delcrappo by the way at this point in the year he is only owed 6.6million
Get some one to take pedro and take whatever in return
Tell alou thanks for the almost memories
Report oliver perez to the INS
Send endy chavez to hitting school
Pay some team to take castillo off our hands
Get all minor league players for the ones that could bre traded single a type
play out the year and finish with a better record than what this junk will produce this is a bad team that only beat teams that are bad
When we beat the braves chipper wasnt playing when we beat the phillies there was no rollins when we beat the yankees there was no arod when we beat the dodgers there was no furcal
Let’s face is it guys….This team is not very good. I say we rebuild for next yr.
Let Delgado, Alou, Pedro, Duque, Perez walk at the end of the season.
Trade Beltron at the deadline for some younger players. Eat some of his contract.
Demote Castillo to the bench.
Sign C.C. and or Texiera
Promote F-mart at the start of next season.
Tell me what you guys think.
i think that idea is stupid
This post is ridiculous. I loved Cliffy, but come on…
I think it’s so interesting that though none of us has ever stepped foot inside the Mets’ clubhouse, we all sense a lack of leadership on this team. Though I would never say Cliff is the missing link, most of us would acknowledge that we need not just an outfield bat but a guy like him who can provide leadership and generate more positive energy in the clubhouse.
Would anybody out there dispute that?
I think Cameron, though he wasn’t with the Mets as long as Cliff, also brought a lot of positive energy to the clubhouse. Those two were practically best friends, from what I understood.
Is there anybody out there we could get via trade who could provide the kind of leadership and energy that Cliff had?
What I wouldn’t give to have 35-year-old Rusty Staub on the Mets’ bench now!
first i hear perez sucks because pedro wasn’t around all season to hold his hand. then i hear reyes is off to a bad start because valentin wasn’t around to give him his milk and cookies and tuck him in at night. now david wright needs “uncle cliff” back. maybe they can put him in charge of waking his teammates up so they can get to the game on time.
the real problem with most of the players on this team is that they are being coddled. how many fans think castillo should have been benched for doggin it on that ground ball the other night? just like manuel did to rollins last week… how many think castro should not only be fined but suspended(W/O PAY!!!!)? both instances are inexcusable and should be severely punished. examples have to be made of certain players and certain actions.
the problem with willie isn’t his managing abilities or baseball knowledge. his biggest problem is that he’s too nice a guy. i know it’s not his personality but you don’t need to act like a raving maniac in order to discipline your team. bobby cox is a perfect example of that and all of his players respect him and as a result always perform for him and don’t embarrass the team.
sometimes adults behave like children so they have to be treated like such and receive the appropriate punishment. then they have to learn their lesson like the men they’re supposed to be and make sure it doesn’t happen again. willie does nothing but undermine his own authority when he neglects the disciplinary part of managing. that’s when players lose respect and start “tuning out.” this team doesn’t need cliff floyd or anyone else. it just needs a little tough live every now and then. only then will the pride and commitment be restored and only then can we start winning again…
Cliffy “no light at the end of the tunnel” Floyd’s impact as an effervescent guy in the Mets clubhouse is ridiculous. More accurately, he was a younger version of Moises Alou without the peeing on his hands, but with all the other assorted damaged body parts. However no one can doubt that he and LoDuca sure knew how to show David Wright the time of his young life out on the social scene.
There is no light at the end of the tunnel if you’re headed to New Jersey. I’m pretty sure Cliff doesn’t have any dealings there. Cliff is the veteran presence on an immature team with immense pitching talent.