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Yesterday, at the team’s Teammates in the Community charity event, Mets GM Omar Minaya told reporters:
“To me, .500 is not acceptable because we’re better than that. It’s not so much about the financial investment, it’s about what this team is about. We know we’re better, we think we’re going to do better and I think we will.”
…the thing is, you can’t just run around saying things are unacceptable unless you’re willing to hold people accountable for their actions…otherwise, it is acceptable…
Minaya also told reporters that he is satisfied with the effort being put forth by his manager and players, which he feels is a playoff-caliber roster.
According to Adam Rubin in the Daily News, “You are watching the painfully slow demise of The New Mets, the vision Omar Minaya articulated four years ago but built as a house of cards.”
Rubin looks back at the job done by Minaya, adding, “The 
dependence on free agency coupled with the lack of a farm system also raises the question: Has Minaya failed to recognize a seismic shift in the MLB landscape?”
…i raised that exact question two weeks ago, here, in which i wrote:
“And so, while people want to get on Randolph’s case, and understandably so, Omar Minaya should also be held accountable for the way this roster was put together and his potential lack of foresight regarding issues with age, attitude and energy…The thing is, and what worries me, is that the old market – in which Minaya worked so well – is now changing, and being run by a younger, different-thinking generation…I hope Minaya is able to adapt…
“As I said a few weeks ago, I sense that the Mets are at a crossroads. Minaya did outstanding work, and did what was necessary to get from Howe to here. However, I have a feeling that more work will need to be done to get from here to a World Series ring – let alone remain over .500.”
According to Bob Klapisch, in a report for the Bergen Record, “Minaya promises to ‘look deep and hard’ at the culture of mediocrity that’s dropped the Mets 7½ games out of first place.”
…culture of mediocrity…well, if that’s not an effective talking point, i’m not sure what it is…well done…
Klapisch quotes a Mets official as saying, “This can’t go on.”
…i bet most of the team’s fans will agree…which is probably what the team official is really saying, whether he realizes it or not…
For more on Minaya and the state of the Mets, check out stories in the Bergen Record, Newsday, the New York Post, Star-Ledger and the Daily News.
oh damn looks like he hit the open bar very early ……..
moves need to be made …..Younger not older..
With the way this team is playing and the lack of young talent,
aging has beens, i can’t wait to see my bill for my two season tickets for next year …..
Seriously. They will have great big hairy cajones to try and up the ticket prices *another* 20% after the way the Mets have unfolded this year.
But I’m sure they will do it and I’m sure most of us will grumble about it but end up paying anyway because what’s the alternative really? Tickets to Citifield are going to be very tough to get next season, regardless of the product put out on the field.
Oh, the injustice of it all!
Dont even get me started on prices Xavier…dont even get me started…….
Prices wouldnt need to be so high if there were an extra 10,000 seats in that “stadium” they are building. At this point im actually starting to feel good about the way the Mets are returning to their old mediocre ways….I wont be tempted to shell out 50 bucks for a seat to a game against the Pirates.
And that’s another thing U-DDweller! We kept hearing how they came up with 45K capacity at Citifield because – with the exception of games against the Yankees and some weekend games – most games had a crown of between 40-45K. Yet in April & May, I would consistently hear Gary talk about a crowd of around 50K – and this was on a weeknight game.
So more BS from the Mets FO. Are they purposely trying to make it hard to be a Mets fan? I know we’re only supposed to focus on what goes on between the foul lines, but dang!
Ahhhhhhh…still fighting the good fight huh? I’ll give you credit fo your persistance….
Hey….things keep going the way the have been you’re gonna get into any game you want(maybe not the 1st game)…..
Xavier…if you think thats an accurate assesment of how many people were in the building I have a bridge I can sell you….
The Mets are setting some sort of record for tickets sold vs. actual people in the stadium this year…
I’ve been to about 12 games this year…..and outside of Opening Day I havent seen one ‘crowd’ over 50K….even the 1st Johan start was pretty weak…
Its gonna be funny in August when they are 12 games out and they play the attendance game on the scoreboard….”Todays attendance is 51,XXX”…..announced to a crowd of 15,000….
Doesn’t matter whether the people actually show up – those seats are still unavailable if you went up to the ticket booth that evening to buy a ticket.
My point is we are being fed a line of BS by the Mets FO that they designed the new stadium with the 45K capacity because “on average” less that 45K people attend the games. That may be true technically in terms of physical attendance; but the seats themselves are still unavailable regardless of whether there’s someone sitting in them.
Chase Field in Phoenix has a seating capacity of 50K. I find it hard to believe that the New York Mets would have a harder time trying to fill a 50K seat stadium than the D’Backs.
Well…yes and no….
Yea, the seats are sold, but no ones tripping over anyone to get their hands on them. I have eaten plenty of tickets this year(and I work in a building with 2,500 people)….
if reducing the seats increases demand, therefore allowing people to sell their tickets even when the team stinks, then I’m fall for it….
Im sick of sitting in an emply stadium on weeknights, in the biggest baseball city in the country , with more die hards than almost any other city….
They are hedging that if they play like ‘this’ in 7 years people will still wanna go, and guys like me can sell their seats…..cause after the thrill wears off, and if they stink….all it is gonna be is another 55,000 seat/25,000 people there $800 mil crap hole…
As a business you have to plan on worst case scenerio….the way things look now they made the right call….
Reducing seats may increase demand in the short term. But lower supply also means higher prices and after the thrill wears off as you said, I forsee that guys like us will have an even harder time trying to sell excess tickets because they will be at least 20% higher than current prices (true, we can sell them under cost, but that is a less than optimal scenario for us). And this is assuming the team is good; if they stink, we will just be eating more expensive tickets.
I can see the need to reduce the capacity relative to Shea. 57K does not lend itself to an intimate environment. However, I believe they erred on the side of caution in reducing capacity to 45K (and that includes SRO – seated capacity is closer to 43K). They still could have come up with a 50K stadium (as the Yankees did) and met their financial/aesthetic requirements.
Well I have to say this conversation is at least a bit more civil than the last time I was involved in the debate. And youre right saltzy, if they keep playing like this i should be able to get pretty cheap seats just about anywhere in the building.
Ha…well my whole master plan was that I lay out $3k this year….the new stadium has only 45k seats….even if they dont win the WS this year tickets should be impossible…..
What I didnt count on was the team absolutley stinking it up, and turning many quasi-fans that would wanna go next year off….
I still think it was a decent investment, but the early returns…..not so good…..
I respect you as a fan Saltzy, so dont take this the wrong way, but treating ticket sales from your season ticket package and stadium sizes, etc, as an investment strategy is what is wrong with “baseball as a business” in the first place!
Now i dont need to be told the average salary in nyc again, I’ve heard it too many times already….the number that should be used here isnt the average, it’s the mode. There are far less millionaires than there are average middle class families in the metropolitan area. And these middle to lower class people, the people that baseball as a sport was built upon, are the ones getting squeezed out by the “intimate” setting of these new quasi stadium/arena ballparks.
Get a better job.
You’re a d!ck gipper.
This debate was going just fine before you had to come with that garbage. There are thousands of people in the city that flat out CANT get better jobs. If you cant come up with anything better to say than “get a better job” just shut your mouth (or quit typing).
Hey Gipper….my man…how ya been….
I’m back to my usual ‘ruffling feathers’ self after a 2 month hiatus…but I’m back full force now…
UDdewller….Its not as though I dont see your point. Hey man, I wish we were still in the days of 50 cent admissions and 5 cent hot dogs, but the facts are that we arent. You seem to be a pretty smart guy, but(and you cant really argure here), you are an idealist. You keep fighting the reality of the situation…
Still….allow me to use your point. I’m not a millionare. I make jusssst over 100K. After taxes do you really think that the $3k I dropped this year was nothing? It hurt, but I was willing to give it over. Are you really saying that I should have to eat tickets so, when you feel like it, you have a seat waiting for you? is that fair? Again, all they are doing is guaranteeing demand. Not only is there noting wrong with that…its the American Way for christs sake….
I dont look at my tickets as an ‘investment’ per se, but hell, if I can reduce my costs by selling some tickets whats wrong with that? My reason for making sure I’m in Citi Field is to guarantee I have a seat for playoff games. Right now at Shea, thats a waste of money, cause even if they make the playoffs I can get in for 1.5 to 2X face, up to the WS where prices gert crazy….going forward my thinking is that if I just buy all the games, if/when they make the playoffs I’m gonna wind up spending what I would have spent on my Season tickets anyway. Especially if they make the WS. Its called hedging my bets. If I can go to the games I wanna, and sell the rest for market value, who am I hurting?
I doubt you will go check this message board today but i think you are missing my point. Im not mad at the people buying the season tickets, theres always going to be people willing to shell out the dough to “hedge their bets” and even some people for which 3K is nothing and will pay that much in a heartbeat for season tix. Fine, have fun, buy your seats, sell your seats, watch your ‘returns’…i dont care
What im upset about is the size of the new stadium, the inevitable rise in ticket prices due to the size of the stadium (and obviously due to inflation, etc), AND the fact that they wont even be selling weekend packages or 5 game packs, or any of the other more affordable ticket packages….just full-season ticket sales and individual tickets. I dont care what their marketing strategy is or their friggin business plan, I care that fans who want to bring their families to a game or two a year will have to forgo the opportunity because they are being priced out.
This is baseball, there are 81 home games a year, more than enough to make money, the Wilpons own the team, the stadium, and the network, they are making money hand over fist (even with a BAD team). Why wont they just give a little – be it small ticket packages, or 5-10 thousand extra seats in their fancy new “stadium”? It’s greedy, and its downright mean.
Soon they WILL lose the support of the lower and middle class fan, because who wants to root for the home team if you have to take out a 2nd mortgage on your own just to see them play??
Sorry Omar, this is not a playoff caliber team. Alou will get hurt this weekend, then what? Explain to me, why the mets have 2 guys in AAA batting over .300 not on the team?
OMAR you are in DENIAL!!!!!!! You’re not fooling us.
Yeah.. good thing he STILL doesn’t get it by the way he handlded the draft.. passing on Mellville, Cole.. Fredreich…
I turned on the college baseball world series last night just in time to watch Ike Davis Struck out.. and apparently he got into a pre-game brawl with his team mate…
Great bring Ike up now, maybe he can smack around some slackers on this roster.
one of the roster spots should be an enforcer, just like hockey…LOL
Well Evans was hitting over .300 and that worked real well. AA .300 does not a MLB player make. They may or may not be ready.
“AA .300 does not a MLB player make”
Thanks Yoda! :)
the real:
I said AAA not AA. Meaning Aguila and Feliciano which both happen to be outfielders. And both are 28.
I know everyone loves to look at “sample size” and use the “81-81 in our last 162!” stat. But what makes you, Horseman, a fortune teller? How do you know the Mets aren’t a playoff caliber team? Every NL playoff team from last year wasn’t “playoff caliber” in mid June last year. You simply don’t know what’s gonna happen. As New Yorkers all you guys just wanna come on here and make brash predictions as if you know where this team is headed. I’m not gonna pretend like it’s been pretty or that the Mets themselves are giving me any reason to believe a regurgence is coming….they’re not. But please guys enough with the ridiculousness. This IS a playoff caliber team. Last year, they were playoff ‘caliber.’ They’ve essentially added a Johan and a Pedro to their rotation. It’s a long season. They can easily make the playoffs. Fans wanna look at last year and this year – sure it can indicate but if I’m not mistaken the Rockies had a bigger sample size of like 13 years of pitifulness. You simply never know.
Oh, there’s definitely a regurgence coming, especially if this team continues it lackluster style of play. I can feel it in my throat.
You are right Boscov. I am not a fortune teller. I am simply stating an opinion. Second, I am not a New Yorker. I live in Pa and have the sunday package, therefore, I go to a lot of games and consider myself very loyal to this team. I’ve had the tickets for 6 seasons now. I am just stating my disappointment with the ballclub.
EXACTLY! If it’s unacceptable, then prove it! If nothing changes you are implicitly saying, “it IS acceptable”. You hit the nail on the head Cerrone
“…the thing is, you can’t just run around saying, ‘it’s unacceptable,’ or, ‘inexcusable,’ unless you’re willing to hold people accountable for their actions otherwise, it is acceptable…”
Im with ya 100% matt. While usually this would mean some sort of change is about to happen, i would not be surprised if nothing happened. We all know its unacceptable, i just hope omar has something up his sleave to make our record acceptable. Time to pull a rabbit out of a hat omar.
Exactly.. he needs to pray that Johan, Maine, and Pedro gel to give this team a pretty good chance to win 3 out of 5 times….
And that somehow someway the offense clicks… maybe he can take on a big contract to add a player.. but he really can’t trade for anyone…
Hey Omar, buddy … YOU’RE UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!!!
Nice team you put on the field Omar. Delgado, Alou, El Duque, Castillo and Pedro. 5 guys you depended on to magically find the fountain of youth this year … with no backup behind them, when we all knew they would not stay healthy. You didn’t know that though.
Nice chemistry you put together, Omar. These personalities clash. You put them together.
Nice manager you hired and kept after that mess last season.
Omar I’m sick of you and I’m sick of your manager and that lousy team you constructed. Get out.
Very nice work!
I agree 100% that Omar is the weak link in this organization. Poor Bill R. came in a couple of weeks ago and tried to turn things around but Omar’s boys couldn’t score any runs in SD.
Are they really better than a .500 team? I don’t think so. Their record says what they are: mediocre.
Actually, they are less than mediocre – two games less.
What’s unacceptable is these awful roster moves. We might win more games if the pitchers didn’t have higher batting averages then the guys pinch-grounding out for them.
Nunez and Casanova on this roster is a joke. Give Pascucci and Aguila a week or two in the majors. I don’t care they can’t hit major league pitching, we just got swept by 4 AAAA pitchers.
Also, change 3-4-5 to Beltran Delgado Wright. Delgado will get strikes to hit, and even swinging blindly he’l make contact 27% of the time (hopefully)
I agree with moving Delgado to the 4 spot. Beltran is _not_ a clean-up hitter at all.
Maybe with Wright protecting Delgado he will get more pitches to hit. Who knows. If they continue to put nobody behind him pitchers will never challange him and therefore he will never get his confidence back to where it needs to be.
wow a couple weeks ago people wanted Delgado to be traded for a bag of balls and now YOU want him batting 4th? That takes balls to ask Willie to do that given how much people on this site hate both Willie and Delgado!
82-82 going back to last season is a pretty large sample. And know what it says? It says the Mets aren’t a playoff team.
satisfied by the effort, not the result? Okay, it is the talent then? Which means the caliber is exactly the result? .500
He should be happy then. Quit complaining. NY loves our team.
“..the thing is, you can’t just run around saying, ‘it’s unacceptable,’ or, ‘inexcusable,’ unless you’re willing to hold people accountable for their actions…otherwise, it is acceptable…”
Matt, you are 100% correct. It became acceptable after the Collapse and not one person was held accountable. This season is just the lingering effects of those decisions.
I believe a few people were held accountable…check out the bullpen at the end of last year…Aside from Schoenweis, who pitched with a torn ligament all last year and is obviously better now, most of the pitchers who part of the collapse are gone.
Feliciano, Heilman, Wagner, Smith, Scho. The core of the bullpen is still here. And Sosa was kept around until he struggled this year. Who exactly are you referring to?
He’s full of baloney
“This year, to Jimmy Rollins, we are the team to beat.”
You know when Beltran said it that we were doomed.
You know what, I’ve had it with you Omar, you know wha’ I’m saying. You try to play the fans off for fools and for a time we bought it. We saw glimmers of hope. But you know what, it wasn’t you, it was the fact that the Wilpons finally decided to spend money. You are exactly what this team is… mediocre. A .500 GM. One step forward and one step back. The Mets Cha-cha.
Exactly. I don’t know what’s worse … that he thinks he’s fooling us … or that he’s in such denial that he believes what he’s saying.
OMAR … YOU MADE A ______G MESS!!!!!!! IT’S TIME FOR YOU, WILLIE and your LOSER REGIME TO GO.
Too bad we’re STUCK with a bunch of these STIFFS you left us with.
It is so clear he is trying to protect his own job. Willie should turn the tables and start pointing the finger at Omar’s moves.
minaya is a moron. fire willie randolph NOW
this team is going nowhere, the phillies lineup is 3x better than the mets lineup. we will be lucky to finish in 3rd place with this old, care free, team we are fielding this year.
The two parts of the organization that aren’t going anywhere are the owners and the players. Time for Fred to step in and show the fans that he means business. Fire Omar first and give Willie the rest of the year to gain the players respect without “Hermano Grande” watching.
I agree with this approach as well. Just by looking at Willie you can see he has something over him. Omar and his cronies need to depart leaving Willie to truly manage the team. Lets see what he can do.
The other thing IMO, is firing the manager mid season will not accomplish much, more then likely will just make the scene even worse. Plus you want the new GM their to evaluate the ballclub so he knows what hes up against prior to the beginning of the off season.
Matt – maybe you should start selling the “In Omar We Trust” tshirts, I am sure they will be a big hit.
The worst bench in the majors…while Chris Aguila and Val Pascucci have 28 homers between them, and both with OPS near 1.000 in AAA.
Three catchers? Abraham Nunez?
Most teams don’t have Jay Bruce et al waiting in AAA. Most teams have guys like Aguila and Pascucci. And then they bring them up, to be bench players, which is what they are probably destined to be at this point. Ex: Greg Dobbs, Matt Diaz, Mike Fontenot, Alexei Ramirez, Chris Snyder…
When you lose three straight 2-1 games, and your bench is the worst in the game, it’s not surprising.
Can’t have it both ways Omar. If the manager and players are putting out the effort, then this team is performing up to it’s capabilities, and it is NOT a playoff caliber team.
The danger is, if he really believes this, then he is more likely to make a panic move (trade the last of the prospects for an over the hill guy to try and put them over the top).
Better off going back to calling up some young guys and giving them a real chance to play.
That’s the problem … I think he really believes what he’s saying. We … the fans … are in trouble.
Wow…I posted for the first time in about 2 months ago yesterday and its amazing how much the vibe has changed. Anyone remember the day we got Johan? 1,000 posts talking about we couldnt wait to beat up on the Phils. Everyone was juiced with the thought of Johan, Pedro, Ollie, Maine…and did we even care if the #5 was El Duque or Pelf?
The one thing that this team could NOT afford was a shaky start where their drive was being questioned, and thats exactly what happened. IMO, in any organization, when doubt and fear of failure creep into the mindset you’re in BIG trouble. The reason is its no longer a ‘fire so and so’, or ‘try reshuffle the deck’ sitiation. Any time something negative becomes systematic, you’re in BIG BIG trouble. It doesnt take a genius to figure out this team(along with the personnal issues) has major systematic problems…
Like i said yesterday, if anyone read my post….It seems like that Dobbs HR last year planted a seed of doubt. They went from a team that knew they were good, to a team that hoped they were good….to now….a team that is trying to convince themselves they are good….
I really hope I’m wrong here, but were in big trouble….
I agree, they needed to get off to a good start and get some swagger back . Not doing so has opened up pandora’s box,
fire Willie, fire Omar, get Bobby V, release Delgado, see if El Duque can pitch with two boots on….booing Santana at home, get Bonds….and Leo Mazzone… it’s all become comical. IMO the one thing this team sorely needs a veteran everday player that all the players respect….because of the effort. Give me a David Eckstein type, no talent, no arm, no range, never gives up an at bat or on a play….universally respected…. with a couple of rings. Get in Reyes’ face for doggin it, Delgado for more effort in the field, Beltran for…….not going there…..Someone to scream at everyone, I’m mad and I’m not gonna take it anymore! LOL Where’s Ray Knight?
10 worst things under Omar’s tenure:
10. Julio Franco to a 2 year deal
9. Hiring Willie Randolph because he was a “winner”
8. Heath Bell, Brian Bannister, etc.
7. Depleting the farm system
6. Hiring Rickey Henderson
5. Ambiorix Burgos
4. Counting on El Duque, Pedro, Alou, Delgado, and the rest of the Sr. Citizens
3. Scott Schoenweis over Chad Bradford
2. Luis Castillo for 4 years
1. Not firing Willie Randolph after The Collapse
agree on all except…
8. No sleep should be lost over Bell, Bannister
7. Santana vs prospects.. you do this deal everytime.
7. wasnt just the Santana deal. He has not drafted well nor developed talent correctly. Why has Carp not had his cup of coffee yet this year? Do we really need 3 catchers and Nunez up?
It’s not that we lost Bell, Bannister, Lindstrom, Owens, etc. It’s that we didn’t get anything of value in return.
# 1 was definitely the biggest mistake. That was the perfect time to fire Willie. The collapse was just completed, the fans were ticked and just waiting for heads to roll. And then nothing happened. Omar blew it right there.
FORGOT ONE….GUILLERMO MOTA!!!
add-on to Cuban’s list:
Firing Rick Downs and replacing him with Hojo.
Wow Omar, talk about a walking contradiction. In one sentence he says that the current state of the team is “unacceptable” but in the next few breaths he says that he’s “satisfied with the effort being put forth by his manager and players”? Really? How is that not a polar opposite statement? It would seem to me that if your team’s current state was “unacceptable” then by all accounts the effort being put forth would be “unacceptable” too, no?
This is the exact problem that I’ve been preaching since the demise this year and Cerrone stated it above as well. There is no accountability…none. I’m sure the players are trying but why would they worry if they know their job is secure? “Well, the boss is mad but I know I’ve got my spot locked up. I’ll just do what I can to get by.” That’s the attitude of our players right now.
If you don’t believe me look at the White Sox. Guillen’s team was playing sub par ball and he lost it. Went off on his players, his GM and what happened…7 game win streak. The players that were under performing are now playing to the level of their expectations. Why? Because their jobs were threatened and they didn’t want to loose their spot to a bench player or a AAA player. That’s the attitude we need. That’s the kick in the butt we need. This team can’t just expect to win b/c we’re good on paper and we’re “supposed to be winning”.
I’m pretty sure it’s that same attitude and complacency that allowed the September collapse to happen. But, at least we’ve learned from our mistakes and we’re making the most of our talent right? Wait a minute…
Well, if you’re waiting for Willie to do something similar to what Ozzie Guillen did, you’re going to be waiting a very long time.
Willie said some stuff to the media and this team looked fired up and was playing good and won 7 out of 9 games before the SD series. They had a couple bad offensive games to start the series in a pitchers park where they lost the 3 games by 1 run and then came out sunday and looked alive and the closer got beat. The one bullpen pitcher that has pitched consistently all year loses the game to end the ridiculous 21 games in 20 straight days and people want to jump ship again? Give them a break, a day off yesterday is what they needed, the pitching staff has looked good and they have been playing with more passion than in the beginning of the season. IF they had gotten blown out in 2 of the 4 games than I can see why the panic but they played them tough and just couldn’t muster up enough to win. You work 20 straight days and travel to multiple cities in that time and see how exhausted you are. If this team isn’t playing better by the allstar break than I’m with you but they still have a month to prove us wrong. 60-40 over the last 100 would get them into the playoffs. Thats right you still have 40 losses to go thru this year so be prepared for that.
When they get pitching, they don’t hit. When they hit, they don’t pitch. That’s just a sign of a bad team, plain and simple.
Well said. Everyone has had a boss that threatened to fire them, or dock them or whatever. As time goes by and nothing ever happens you start to realize they have no teeth. You may still respect them as a person, but not as a supervisor. I think thats where Willie is right now. Hes ‘liked’ by the team, but they don’t respect him as a manager, and they CERTAINLY dont fear him….
Its the problem with becoming friends with subordanates. Its great when things are going well, but you have effectively lost the ability to discipline. They can say whatever they want. When we walks away they go RIGHT back to their old routine. I still am not sure firing him will do anything. Like I said before, once medioricty and laziness become part of the fabric just changing one person, even the manager, wont turn the ship around then and there…..and thats what we need…..again, were in BIG trouble…
Maybe if the new person is a total opposite, like a Larry Bowa type, who would break golf clubs over people’s knees when they don’t hustle and play the game right. That kind of drastic change could make a difference. However, it could be too late at this point if the Phillies keep pulling further and further away.
Pinella or Leyland would be my choices(anyone else rooting HARD against the Tigers this year? Maybe theyll make a change and we can get him)…
Either way, I agree in principle…but it wont happen till next year. If someone is gonna come in and crack the whip IMO they need to be here from ST. Even if they hire Bobby Knight it seems like ‘this’ team wouldnt even know how to respond…They need to go through ST hell, and know that their crap is no more…..just dont see that happening this year….hope Im wrong….
A good example of the lack of respect for Willie is the comment Delcrappo made last week when he said that if Willie is thinking of platooning him then he and Willie will need to talk. Who the heck does Delcrappo think he is??? If the manager wants to platoon you he probably has a good reason to do so and it’s his decision to do so. Don’t like it, rot on the bench, loser! Everyone notice that as soon Willie sat him he stepped up his game afterwards? Hypercritical loser. This cancer should be excised.
Wow, 7.5 games out of first place. That’s freaking awful. The whole organization should be ashamed of itself.
7.5 games out does seem pretty awful to me. It’s not easy to make up games. Is there something we’re seeing now that suggests that they will turn things around?
The one thing Omar did do right was pass on Gerrit Cole. Nad makeup, bad mechanics, plus recent injury problems.
He needs to be fired, along with Willie.
Actually I will give Omar a pass until next season. I really think that he signed some of these veterans because he did not want to block others or that a long term solution was not there. Ex. Alou, Elduque……
Next year we have 1B, LF, 2 SP and a new bench to look forward to. Lets see what he does with those positions.
Something like
Trading for Kendry Morales this year while the Angels are trying to make a playoff run.
Allowing one of the AA guys to platoon in LF/1B next season with Morales.
Signing 2 big name SP like Sheets, Garland, CC, Harden, etc.
Bringing up youth for the bench that has no real starting potential. Like a Gotay type, even though he has been terrible this season.
Either way I think this offseason will define Omar. During this time, however, you have to fire Willie and the coaching staff except Peterson. You have to know if it’s the players, manager, mental, talent or what excatly is the problem.
The thing is, if YOU can come up with these ideas, any baseball man can. Omar can be replaced and these agendas can still be persued. Do we really want to “trust” Omar with the reigns with these big decisions coming up?
Like I said for this offseason yes. I think we need to allow him this one. I still think there is a posibility that he did what he could to make us competitive this season with all eyes on next season. We have a couple of promising young position players and a ton of money to spend. Lets see what he does with that first.
Yea im with ya real. 09 is going to be the do or die term of omar minaya. We got a lot of holes we need plugged up going into next year. I looked into that morales guy and hes a pretty good option, just wonder how much he would cost to bring him onboard. I also agree that going into 09 we need a breath of fresh air and i think that can include the bench coaches as well. Regardless of how this seasons ends i believe omar will outlive willie but definatly 09 he will be in the hot seat…period.
Kendry is at AAA for them and for some reason can never stick at the MLB level. I would imagine that the Angels feel this is their year and if they needed a good bullpen arm they would not hesitate to trade Morales. Something like Show and cash or Heilman maybe enough.
Except Peterson, why? That guy has been the driving force on moving out guys like Lindstrom and Bell, it was on his advice, right or wrong he is as much to blame for who has come in and out for that staff.
So all we need to do is trade for Kendry Morales and sign two of Sheets, Garland, Sabathia and Harden, except only two of those guys are free agents next year.
I won’t give Minaya a “pass’ but I am also not going to hang him.
The players are responsible for what does down on the field, period. I will give every manager and GM at least two shots to prove the hypothesis wrong.
At this rate 2009 will be make or break.
Harden has an option that there is no way that Oakland picks up, buddy.
why not? if they’re keeping him the entire year, they might as well pick up that option and trade him. what’s the point of just letting him walk?
yeah, there is NO WAY the A’s pick up a $7M option on a 26 year old pitcher with his promise, get real
their payroll last season was $80M, this season it is $50M with Harden making $4.5M I am sure they will squeeze in the $2.5
I think we’re being a bit to harsh on Minaya. I like Omar and the job he’s done overall. Sure, he’s made some mistakes, especially, as everyone has mentioned, keeping Abraham Nunez and Casanova on the bench. but the makeup of this team is good enough to be in the playoffs and to get to the WS.
The Bench is hard to addresss, but here goes: No one thought Anderson would struggle as he has; Easley was a rock last year; Castro has always been a great backup catcher; Pagan has no history of injuries, so we could not see him going to the DL and struggling – after all, he earned the spot out of Spring Training; Tatis was a gamble, but he has won two games for us, and cost nothing… Some of the young guys need to come up to show what they’ve got, but we need to realize that is difficult on a team trying to win now. That said, the guys currently on the roster aren’t getting it done, so a change is necessary.
Which gets to the biggest and most crucial point – the players are not holding up their end of the bargain. Delgado’s fall is well documented, but Beltran hasn’t hit, Wright has disappointed, Reyes has only recently got it going and has made plenty of mental errors that have hurt us, Church and Alou haven’t been in the lineup consistently, Castillo has been far too passive a hitter. The pitching has disappointed – especially Heilman and Perez – and the gripes go on and on. The bottom line is that these guys should be getting it done.
Personnel changes need to occur – that includes changing the manager and his staff. As someone on this blog said yesterday, it may be time to make a change simply for the sake of making a change. This team is not getting it done, so change is necessary. That much, no one can argue with.
I agree, I thought coming in that our bench was in good shape.
Anderson and Easley were some of the best PH in the game last season
Castro was the best backup catcher in the NL
Endy was the best defensive OF in the game
Pagan was a great addition
Now Endy can’t hit at all, Anderson can’t hit and is injured, Castro is sleepy and injured, Pagan is injured and we have Cancelnova and Rey Ordonez lite on the bench.
Matt, not for nothing but I think if we went back two years ago to the point when Minaya signed Wright for a barrell of monkeys and Reyes for less than the contract than Castillo you said how brilliant Omar was for locking up young guys, which in essence in the last 12 months other GMs have followed suit on.
Minaya is responsible for the roster existing now, I have not seen where he denies that or does accept responsibility.
No farm system, over-dependence on free agents (mostly older vets), a bench filled with has-beens and never-beens, a myopic GM and COO, son of a billionaire p-laying baseball genius, a mgr. befuddled, et.al. Result is that in no way can these Mets recover. New blood is needed.
Where is Scot Kazmir when we need him?
Tampa Bay. Duh :-)
I’m sorry, perhaps you meant it symbolically, as in, “Where is the young stud pitcher we can trade for a piece of crap like Victor Zambrano?”
If that’s what you meant, well… we don’t have any of those :-(
They’re playing .484 not .500. No need to round up.
Ok, being that I love the rumor mill, what was the last we heard on what it will take to get Adam Dunn? I know his contract is up and he makes 13 million this season. Is there a fit out there for him this season besides us? Who has playoff asperations (did not say potential) and in need of a 1B or LF?
What about Grif fey Jr? Would he play LF? He could be a good stop gap in LF until Fmart is ready?
I think Boston has been rumored to be interested in Adam Dunn, and they have more trade chips than we do. Jayson Stark is an idiot, but he said this morning on Mike and Mike that Cleveland is all over Boston’s farm system right now in case they’re interested in CC Sabathia.
And wouldn’t hold your breath on Grif fey either. He’s had his chance to come to NY before and declined. I think he has a no-trade for certain teams anyway.
And keep in mind for players with no-trades that they would have to waive to be traded here – this team is not winning or even particularly close, so these players will not look at the Mets like Santana did when we duped him.
i would not call these comments reassuring. omar = used car salesman methinks
Omar saying this is a playoff caliber team just means he is truly clueless.
Jeff Wilpon needs to grow a pair. Remember his email after the collapse saying he was going to repair this? Well Jeff what are you going to do now? We all keep talking about accountability, the owners are the only ones that can hold their employees accountable. Until they start doing that and making changes it will be business as usual.
I’ve always been in Omar’s corner but I’ve started to change my views. Yes Omar can’t be blamed for the underperformers but you look at the three ways a GM can influence an organization, Trades, Farm System adn Free Agency and its hard to say Omar has excelled at any of the three
In terms of trades, you can only hang your hat on John Maine for so long. Santana I dont’ give him all that much credit for because he finished third in a three horse race but the first two horses bailed and he won by default. The Perez trade isn’t as big a win as it used to be. Its not a loss but its not a slam dunk anymore. Then you go to all the “minor” trades he made and not many have worked out. The Lindstrom, Bell and Bannister trades are a hit against Omars record, espcially when most of the players they got in return are either injured or out of the organzation. Whether you believed they were good trades or not they haven’t worked out. Even Delgado hasn’t worked out as well as you would have hoped, and Mike Jacobs is becoming a player for the Marlins. On top of that, every deal he seems to make, the players given up by Omar always seem to become quality players with the organizations they are traded too. Now the goal isn’t to fleece teams but you’d hope he’s not constantly giving up quality every time, especially when in return it hasn’t been the same.
The Farm system at the top is so bad the Mets have gone on a signing spree the last month signing players who haven’t played MLB ball in years. New Orleans has turned into retread city. how many 30-33 year old outfielders have they signed this past year? Where are the players needed to fill slots when guys get injured?? Look at all the guys the Sox bring up to fill in when players get injured or eventually start as regulars…Hanson, Masterson, Buchholtz, Pedroia, Ellsbury…the list goes on.
Free Agency hasn’t been as big a boon as you’d think either. Too many old broken down players. I love Pedro but he has had one full year out of four. Alou, we know can’t stay healthy. Beltran is a great player but not the mega/superstar and team leader we all hoped he’d be.
All I’m saying is, how has Omar done a great job with this team? What aspect of the team has been greatly improved?? How is this organization set up for future success? You want to say in the lower minors they have top players? That’s a long ways off before we find out. I just don’t know if Omar’s track record here and with Montreal has shown he’s a top notch legit GM.
” Lindstrom, Bell and Bannister trades are a hit against Omars record”
Have you seen Bannister’s numbers? Vargas is better and who knows what Burgos will give us. He is still incredibly young. Bell was TERRIBLE here. He would have never been successful here. Lindstrom worked out for the Marlins but we did get 2 young LHSP out of the deal. Not a bad gamble for 2 older middle relief guys who did not have a spot on the current roster.
Mike Jacobs is becoming a player for the Marlins? So you wanted to spend 3 years in which we were supposed to be competing for a shot at a WS while a guy was becoming a player? He has a friggin OBP of .284. He is terrible.
What players that Omar has given up have become impact players? Bell? Again, anywhere there was pressure he would have folded. Nady? You have to give to get and Ollie did a lot of good things for us in 06, 07.
Beltran “but not the mega/superstar and team leader we all hoped he’d be.” Speak for yourself. He has been exactly what I expected. We knew he was a quite guy that was streaky and played great defense all while doing every thing well but not exceptional. No one expected him to be a 40 HR guy. Ideally he is hitting 3rd or 5th with a true power hitter 4th but Delgado got old.
Omar has made some bad moves but for the most part again none of the moves can be judged until this offseason.
“He has been exactly what I expected. We knew he was a quite guy that was streaky and played great defense all while doing every thing well but not exceptional. No one expected him to be a 40 HR guy. Ideally he is hitting 3rd or 5th with a true power hitter 4th but Delgado got old.”
Exactly. Alot of people s*** on beltran not understanding that he is playing out of role on the lineup. He is #3 hitter or #5. He also plays a hellova CF and i would not trust that job to just anybody.
You can’t say he got lucky with the Santana trade because he waited everyone out and did not deal either Reyes or Fernando Martinez, he very well could have believed the Yankees and Red Sox were simply calling each others bluff and waited.
Anyhow his trades have not been nearly as bad with the Mets as documented, the notion that he has given up so many guys becoming “players” elsewhere is entirely false.
Jacobs has had his routine early season power surge, but the guy is hitting .246 with a .280 OBP, he will swoon righ back to his sub .750 OPS by mid summer.
And Bannister of the 5-6 record with a 4.98 ERA and .275 BAA, at some point trading a young Steve Trachsel is not a huge loss.
Minaya takes a hit on the current state of the farm system because the Mets have failed to scout better in the 2005, 2006 and 2007 drafts. I also believe they made a huge mistake with Holt in this years draft, we shall see.
But it is possible Murphy, Evans and Carp (drafted by his predecessor but kept by Minaya) could all be legit contributors, all-stars perhaps not but legit.
Guys like Pedroia and Ellsbury were late bloomers out of college too, but one thing Minaya has to do soon is have a plan to move Evans, Carp and Murphy at least to the next level.
Agree with everything but the last part. AAA is not the same as what we grew up with. All around the majors AAA is for AAAA players and geezers. AA is where a name prospect should be. It is more likely that kids come up from AA than from AAA.
Also regarding Jacobs I read an article yesterday which suggested the Marlins will be using Jacobs as deadline trade bait, moving Cantu to first and calling up Dallas McPherson to play third.
It is time for the Mets to become sellers. Someone will surely take Beltran. Sign Lofton for this year only and trade Beltran for prospects. Release Delgado and trade or release Castillo, even if it means eating much of the contract. Trade Heilman for prospects. Ditto for Schoeneweis. And as much as I am a fan of him, I say trade Ollie Perez NOW or at the deadline. He’s going to leave at year’s end anyway, and who cares about the compensation pick? The Mets don’t draft well anyway. I’d rather take someone else’s prospects. They have a better chance of succeeding than anyone Omar picks.
This team is going to suck all year. Better that they suck with hope for the future rather than with this false hope that they are going to come out of it and, as Willie would say, “find a nice little rythym.” What a crock. Get what you can for whoever you can at the deadline and plan for a better 2009 in Citi Field. The alternative is 3 1/2 more months of torture, only to be followed by the inevitable purge. The only difference is, if we wait, we can’t hold up other teams for good prospects.
i love when people basically say to trade the whole team away for prospects. Who do you trust to play CF if beltran is gone…Endy will give u a nice glove but his bat is less than desireable. Who plays first if delgado is gone and who plays second if you trade castillo? I would see if i could unload heilman but show has been doing ok for us this year. Why do we have to pull a FL Marlin tactic and have a fire sale. ITS STILL JUNE PEOPLE with 100+ games left to play. Besides im sure you will enjoy paying more for tickets/parking/food in citi field for a team of prospects. And last but not least whos to say anybody wants the guys you want to unload. Teams are holding on to their good youth players…i doubt we will get equal compensation in return for the people you mentioned trading. Lets ride this season out..hopefully omar can make one or two adjustments to this team before trade deadline and make a push. Next year is going to be pretty much 360 from this year.
Beltran has a no trade clause. Also, he is the best at his position in the NL. You don’t trade that, you build around that. He would not bring back anyone that is as good as he is. If you trade him for 4 prospects chances are none of them come even close to what he does.
Castillo is such a reason for hate on here but he does his job just fine. Sure he is not a power hitter but he still gets on base and plays good defense. You can’t have every position be superstars. Who the heck would play 2nd base? Easely? Your pitchers would shake every time out. You think you would just go and sign Hudson next year. Well that will cost about 12-15 a year, twice what you are paying Castillo. Hudson is much better but the numbers that you get from him don’t add up. Especially when it keeps you from getting the SP or 1b/LF you want.
The only thing I can agree on is trading our bullpen pieces and Ollie.
Trade Heilman and Show. Show should have good value because now that bad contract is half over and he is pitching much better. Heilman’s value is not what it was but some team would take a chance on him because he is still under team control and cheap.
I blame the HoJo for the Mets losses. Ever since he became the hitting coach the Mets’ bats are pathetic, when the Mets fire him, and hire a top quality hitting coach then the Mets’ problems will be solved. Stop bashing Omar he made this team a contender, in 06 I remember people sayign how much you guys love Omar, now because they are losing it’s all Omar’s fault.
The Mets were a contender in 2006. Since then, it’s been a downhill ride. The future does not look good. Omar was supposed to build a contending team for the long haul. he has not done that.
Can’t say that until this offseason. He has positioned himself to be a big player in this offseason with all the spots and cash opening up.
Are you his agent?
One more year is his favorite slogan.
Well, if what everyone is saying is true (our system is barren, players are old, etc. etc.), then we sacrificed all of that to make our run in 2006, and we came up short and have to live with the consequences. Stuff like that happens. I agree with what I heard on the radio– Omar gets one more manager.
Exactly Omar wanted to win in 2006 and went for that. Then with 07/08 he patched some holes hoping that some of our youth would be ready. It wll be interesting to see what happens. Just think if only 1 of the AA guys are ready for next year that gives us another 15 million to spend on other holes.
Give Omar until 09, are you people crazy, He should be fired RIGHT NOW. He deserves a pass but Willie doesn’t, that’s garbage and I’m tired of hearing it. We have no minor league system is that Willie’s fault? We have 2 guys in AAA with a combined 30 homeruns and they are not up here eventhough we have the worst bench in the National League is that Willie’s fault? I’m not defending Willie, I think it’s time for a managerial change, but if Willie is going out the door, then Omar should be joining him. I don’t understand how people let this guy slide, what Cuban wrote was dead on. I want him gone and I want him gone before the trading deadline because if we have to dismantle this team and trade any of the marketable players we have for prospects I don’t want Omar doing it. What sure prospects are you talking about Real. What Martinez, I think he’s going to be a real good player, but the jury’s out on Evans and Carp and I hope your not talking about this year’s draft because there’s no guarantee those guys are going to be any good. FIRE OMAR!!!!!!
And replace him with who?
Who do you believe would do an adequate job in your opinion. Who do you think would be able to dismantle this team and reasseble this team to your liking and this point, given what we have?
I never mentioned any SURE prospects that I know of. Now do I think that one of the the AA guys will pan out? Yes but that’s just a guess.
And who the hell is dismantling this team? FA will take care of that. 1B. LF, 2SP and some BP and bench players will all be gone regardless. Again, why does it not occur to anyone that Omar may have planned it this way?
We do have a weak farm system, cousinrk, but I don’t think that’s the issue here. Most teams don’t have much to call on in AAA.
Only a few top prospects are ready for the majors right now. Most need more seasoning. Most organizations, if they need more depth, haaren’t relying on the big names from their farm system…they’re relying on people like Greg Dobbs, Ryan Ludwick, or David Murphy.
Do the Mets have guys like these? Well, potentially. Chris Aguila has 17 homers and a .980 OPS; Val Pascucci has 11 homers (wasn’t here until late April) and a 1.010 OPS.
In other words, I don’t think the farm system is the problem with our bench…it’s Omar’s bizarre choices. Letting big bats rot away in AAA while calling up a third catcher and the terrible Abraham Nunez seems highly problematic.
omar should only be given the rest of the year, giving him credit for the wilpons opening the checkbook dont fly……
but all that will be unnecessary , philly will fall from back tto earth and the mets will take the div.
it’s hot now ,and as willie promised , players will start to hit and santana will become dominant….
david will go on a seconed half tear, and beltran will follow, even delgado will start to pop the ball…..
i know i’m optimistic ….today………..
John, what’s in that flushing water? Oh, and this flab around my waist will turn to muscle, never having to lift a finger.
i might be one of the biggest doom and gloomers here….
but i’m telling ya , i just feel it……..
What am i not being positive enough for you on here today? Are you trying to push me out or something?
John… thanks. I’m putting aside logic and reason and just embracing your optomism and it feels so good. (not being sarcastic)
The problem is.. the players might hit.. but when… and will they be consistent. It is so hard to make high priced veteran ball players accountable.. It is unlikely that we’ll be able to make a trade that will have any impact with such a weak farm. Even if there was a trade, the only thing you’ll get is another aging veteran on the downside.
I think the only thing that can be done.. is to take advantage of Church being on the DL and have a revolving door in right field to appease the fans and media. Who knows.. some rookie might create a spark. There is nothing better than a rookie or underachiever overachieving. It makes a great story and gets everyone excited and might spark the team to play better.
I’m with you man. I wish more people would continue to live by _our_ motto “You Gotta Believe!”
The Wilpons need to make a move, even if it is to just shake things up. Clearly the signing of Johan did not have the positive affect on the players as Omar was hoping. I do believe we can still make the playoffs but I’d like to see a new pitching coach (not sure who) and some young players come up. Poor Church, he was looking so great and now on the bench, and with head injuries he’s at least out until after the all-star break, probbaly he’ll try and come back for september like Pedro last year.
THis medical staff also has problems. We have way too many injuries and we did throughout spring training and last year, the players are always fragile and then they give the go ahead to Wille to run Church back out. The medical staff should be fired too.
“Clearly the signing of Johan did not have the positive affect on the players as Omar was hoping”
i would have to disagree. Because of the johan signing it cause the most unlikely of people to declare victory in beltran. His affect has been positive..I dont have the stats but he has handled his job as stopper well so far i think.
“I do believe we can still make the playoffs but I’d like to see a new pitching coach (not sure who) and some young players come up”
I do to but we dont have that many. Alot of our young players are still in AA and are not ready for the big time..(see nick evans). I would rather them stay down and develop a bit more before we expose them to the show. By doing so it keeps their trade value intact just in case we need to include them in a trade sometime in the future.
“the players are always fragile and then they give the go ahead to Wille to run Church back out”
i could be wrong on this but i thought church gave willie the ok to play. The medical staff just said he doesnt have that many symptoms from the concussion and it was churchs call.
Man, 95% of the posts are finger-pointing. Can this team give us a freggin W already!
The thing is, everybody knew this was a “win now” roster and I think that a team should have a blend of young guys and veterans. There was just too many question marks surrounding the veterans. At the same time, the options were limited at the time when Omar decided to rely on these guys. Think about each one of the guys being named in this post (Alou, Delgado, El Duque, Castillo, Pedro). I would be hard pressed to find people that disagreed with any one of these moves when we attained these people…or at least find people that had better options at the time. Is there one person in here who did not want to trade Mike Jacobs for Delgado 3 years ago (I’m sure these people were also pissed the day we attained Alomar too)? How many times have you said to yourself you wished you had Jorge Julio in their in the 7th or 8th inning? How many middle of the lineup outfielders were available the day we signed Alou…and is $8M for a half year of his production really such a terrible thing? How many more games would we have won with Eckstein playing 2nd? Do you really think that signing Pedro didn’t restore at least some credibility to a team that desparately needed it.
That is not to say he hasn’t made some terrible moves. He’s traded away some young talent and gotten nothing in return on more than one occasion. And not bringing up these two journeymen outfielders in AAA is mind baffling. I don’t know…when I look at the whole body of work, I think he has done an OK job. Not great. Not terrible. It will be interesting to see what he does if this BS continues though…
I can see it now. Late August the Mets will be 12 out of 1st and 10 out of the wildcard
All of a sudden, with no pressure and an apathetic fan base ,the Mets will go 25 and 5.
They will have a team BA of 325 and hit 60 homers
They will beat teams into oblivion and no contender will want to play them down the stretch
Moises Alou seeing his career coming to an end, will play everyday and hit 350. Fans will be clamoring for Fernando Martinez but they will be unable to get Alou out of the lineup
Heilman will pitch 20 consecutive scoreless innings
Wagner with no big games on the schedule will convert every save opportunity
Mets fans will be clamoring for Mike Carp, but Delgado will finish big batting over 300 and hitting 10 homers in September
Beltran, Wright and Reyes will quietly put up good numbers
Pedro will make every start
Perez will go 4-0 in his last 5 starts with an era under 2
Even Mike Pelfrey will turn thecorner
However they will still miss the playoffs and be no better off than they are today.
i agree ,only they WILL win the div………
If the Mets win 25 of their last 30 and finish outside the playoffs as things line up now, they would have to drop to about 55-77, as poorly as they have played the last year, that ain’t happening, 25-45 over their next 70, not likely.
I know you are ultimately kidding on this stuff, but that would get them a wild card
The Mets have one of the WORST farm systems in baseball, that’s not just my opinion, it’s a fact according to most scouts.
Is Abraham Nunez the best we can do? You’ve got to be kidding.
The guy was released from the Brewers’ minor-league system, and who had batted just .133 in 13 games at Triple-A New Orleans! This was our pinch hitter in a game we HAD (needed) to win. Case closed on that point.
Without getting into to Willie, who I can write another three page book about all the reasons he should have been fired after last year’s HISTORIC Collapse, Omar Minaya is the main reason why this team will NEVER be nothing but a .500 (at best) the way it’s currently constructed. NEVER.
Omar failed to recognize the prevailing trend in baseball, which is too develop your farm system and get younger instead of older, teams like Tampa and the Brewers come to mind.
This is the kiss of death in the POST Steroid Era where older, declining players can no longer turn back the hands of time, Hence Delgado and Alou.
The worst part now is (for me), is that we now have to listen to this guy’s idiotic and moronic statements about how he’s satisfied with the effort put forward, another way of saying “hey, don’t blame me”. Complete Bull Sh…i…..T!!
We may have the worst farm… but isn’t most of our farm teams in first place… mostly due to an insane, overachieving offfense. The big league club on the other hand is a bunch of pathetic underachievers. Let’s bring some guys up!
Why not? They can’t possibly do worse than these clowns up at the major league level, Can’t possibly!
MetLifer, I agree with you on bringing the Bingo guys up. Carp and Murphy deserve looks this season before September. Instead of bringing up Nunez, why didn’t they call on one of them? Why is Nunez even in the system? The Brewers let him go from their minor league club and the Mets call him up to the majors?
As for the records of the minor league clubs, I believe they are generally bad, especially St. Lucie.
Has Minaya failed to recognize a seismic shift in the MLB landscape?
A few weeks ago I said Minaya was “behind the curve” on this trend,that other GMs have recognized. And some took issue with my assessment.
The new PEDs rules and revenue sharing and luxury taxes have conspired to make the old model of team building obsolete, and I don’t even know if Omar recognizes this now. He may be hopelessly stuck in the past, in which case the Mets are in trouble.
As I’ve said before, firing Willie would be a bandaid move. To make the fundamental changes to this organization that need to be made for long-term success, I believe they may need to change the GM. That”s the key. Not changing managers. That simply musical chairs.
Well said and 100% on the money.
Meant to say changing managers is simply playing musical chairs.
Although I agree with you that Omar is the main colprit, I also beleive Willie needs to go, you just can’t keep a manager that couldn’t find a way to win just one extra game during last year’s collaspe, just one extra game.
Maybe they both should go after the end of this season. Even if they get into the playoffs.
Only if they make the WS should they get a stay of execution.
Just for sake of arguement, in that process, he had a win in Florida in which his big mouth closer pulled up lame and could not pitch turn into a loss.
He had a win locked down by Pedro against the Phillies at Shea that Heimlich Manuever coughed up.
You had two wins against the Nationals farted away be the worst pitching efforts known to man.
If managers could “find ways to win” they would do it all the time. You can only put your team in a position to win more often than you lose, and last year his players totally and utterly failed him as a unit.
He is not headed for the mount rushmore of managers, but this is a guy who more than once could have thrown his players under the bus, he never has and takes the punches and his players the best they can do is shrug their shoulders and feel bad for themselves.
Minaya began the curve when the Mets inked Wright and Reyes for absurd pre free agent contracts in 2006, you can get on him partly for not having more Wrights and Reyes, but some of that comes from what the Mets developed prior to Minaya’s tenure.
He dealt away two promising players in Mulvey and Gomez, but when Santana is the return that is a no brainer.
He also got Maine and Perez for peanuts.
He ain’t perfect, but he ain’t terrible either.
Uh, no. mid-market teams were inking their home-grown players to long-term contracts before the Mets locked up Wright and Reyes.
And I have no problem with the Santana trade. The problem are players like Bannister, Bell, Lindstrom, and Flores.
Maine and Perez were throw-ins.
No, Omar is not terrible. I never said he was. But he’s done a lot of harm to this franchise unnecessarily, especially to the farm system. He certainly is not in the top echelon of GMs. NY deserves better.
For the last time Perez and Maine were not throw ins. Omar ask for them and got them.
The problem are players like Bannister, Bell, Lindstrom, and Flores.
Bannister is terrible, Vargas is better. Bell was AAAA here and was TERRIBLE. He would have never done well in NY. Lindstrom was old and had no spot on the current roster. Flores, who would have guessed that a team would have carried a guy who was no where near ready all year. Besides he would have still been in AAA for us.
“But he’s done a lot of harm to this franchise unnecessarily, especially to the farm system” What harm has he done to a farm system that was already rated subpar before he got here?
Not for the last time ( because I know someone will be wrong on this again) but Maine was not even in the original trade discussions, and Perez was a reclamation project who Omar was ready to trade to SD for Linebrink. So it’s not as if Omar targeted either of these pitchers. He lucked out on them.
Bannister is not terrible. Lindstrom was not old, and he did have a spot on the team if Omar had made room for him. And who would have guessed that Flores was worthy to be taken as a Rule 5 player? Davey Johnson and lots of Mets fans. That’s who.
And, who cares what level Flores would have been in. The point is you protect talent like that. You don’t just give it away.
The farm system now is in worse shape than when Omar got here. The clubs at the lower levels are playing like crap. Bingo is doing OK, but most of those players were in the system before Omar got here.
It has been mentioned many times that Omar targeted these guys. Both times he had a need for a reliever and the guy the other team wanted in return was worth mor than that reliever. So Omar went back and did research and demanded that “throw in” in return. It has been well documented that Omar and Peterson both liked Maine and saw a ton of potential in Perez. Yes Omar wanted to trade Perez for Linebrink but that was when Linebrink was on top of his game and the Mets weren’t down 17 SP.
Lindstrom was 27 years old. Yes he was old for a guy that had never made it to the majors. So Omar was supposed to make room for a 27 year old middle reliever instead of trying to get younger by trading him? Lindstrom has a 4.76 ERA with a 1.76 WHIP. Heck even Heilman’s WHIP is less than that. He has almost as many walks as strikeouts. And why does no one ever mention Henry Owens when they talk about that trade? He was old and had a delievery that was bound to produce an injury and uh… that’s what happen. I can’t believe people get on Omar for this trade. He traded 2 older middle relievers that did not have a spot on the team and got 2 LHSP that were under 25. He actually got younger.
As for Flores I guess it was a mistake in judgement but you can’t say that it devestated the farm.
The only reason the farm is in worse shape than when he got here is because of the Santana trade. Who was in the farm when he got here that was so great?
So far you mentioned a 27 year old #5 pitcher 28 year old middle reliever and a AAA catcher.
You guys kill me with all this hind sight stuff. Omar has taken this franchise from nothingness to where we are all complaining that we SHOULD win. Yes that has a lot to do with money but a lot of it has to do with him too.
Oh, and kudos to Adam Rubin. He’s been ahead of the curve in his assessment of the team while most other NY sportswriters (like Tim Marchman, Klaptrap, and this guy at SNY) were simply aping the “fire Willie” mantra.
Change of topic. Addressing your user name: Can you tell me why they never considered trying out Heilman as a starter?, It’s not like we have 5 aces going out there every 5th day, just curious, it’s something that I don’t beleive I”ve ever gotten a straight answer on.
I don’t think the organization has ever been very specific as to why Heilman shouldn’t start. I’ve heard some fans say Heilman has only two pitches. But during the last two weeks, one of the Metsblog writers (forget which one; maybe it was Berg) wrote a piece about how Heilman did have more than 2 pitches.
It’s just a shame that Heilman has never been given a real chance to start since he tweaked his arm angle in 2005, and he continues to be put in a role in which he’s not real well suited for.
I can just see it now. The mets will eventually trade him and it will be another Banister situation where Heilman is going to turn out to be a pretty good starter, possibly a No. three. I just have this gut feeling about him that once he’s put into the roll the guy trully has been wishing for and I beleive was always made for, he’s going to florish.
I personally hope that, if we trade him, he turns into the next Bannister. That guy is terrible. I would rather have Vargas.
I guess Banister was the wrong name to use, but you got my drift.
I understand what you are saying but what is the last SP that the Mets gave up on that had a great career? Mike Scott?
I hope Heilman does turn into Bannister — a pitcher who is adaptable and knows how to really pitch instead of just throwing the ball. I wouldn’t be surprised if Bannister makes the necessary adjustments this year to have another good year. And, at any rate, Burgos has been almost a total failure.
By the way, 1986 Mets, now that was a team for the ages. You could never accuse those guys of not having any “Fire” or lack of spunk, best year for me as a Mets fan and a baseball fan.
If we could somehow fuse Banister’s pitching knowledge and adaptablity with Oliver Perez’s raw talent, we’d have a 20-game winner.
What is this? Is this bizzaro Metsblog? Has all ability to rationalize went out the window? Bannister is flat out terrible. His numbers look no better than Claudio Vargas or Pelfrey. He is at best a #5 pitcher.
I agree with you but i think changing gms would be “one” of the many keys for this team to succeed. The manager needs to go because unfortunatly while a case can be made that the players are not doing their job at the plate..the manager always takes the bullet..comes with the territory. My only worry is if the can omar early, the next guy may not be able to impact the team as immediately as people want him to. Thats why i believe omar should be given 09 to work outta this mess. Omar made this team to win the WS in 2006 and they didnt get this done. Omar did most of these moves to win now and forget about the future. I dont know if it was FO to make that mentality but he abided by it and now we are stuck with this mess. Give omar 09 to show his worth and if he cant make moves to inspire confidance then dump him.
If the team doesn’t make the WS, they both should go. Problem with keeping Omar for ‘09 is that I don’t think he has the vision to be entrusted with the organization’s long-term health. They need someone who can look at both short- and long-term needs.
I disagree. While omar has done questionable moves, i think he needs one more year to be evaluated propertly. Omar built this sqaud for 06 and since they have not gotten the job done he has been making short term solutions ever since. Now with 09 he has alot of players coming off the books and now i believe he will show his true colors and if he does have long/short term vision. I think one more year is fair to evaluate omar since this team has become competitive again.
Again, Dirty I agree completely. Omar has refused to give long term contracts to guys that we have potential replacements in the minors. Thus no LF. 2nd base was something that there was NONE of in the minors so he locked up Castillo with a longterm contract. (Obviously too long but who cares, we can eat the money if we ever need to)
The big question is what will Omar do with 09. Will one of the AA guys be ready? Will he go after Tex or Dunn to fill 1B/LF. Again I think Omar has actually set us up well for next year with big time money and positions coming off the payroll. Lets see what he does.
I still can’t understand why some refuse to believe that MAYBE that was his plan all along. Win in 2006 and patch those spots with veterans until 2009.
Overlooking Flores had nothing to do with winning for ‘06. Making bad draft selections had nothing to do with winning for ‘06 (and this slotting excuse is BS). Even Bannister had nothing to do with winning for ‘06, and in fact, he might have been more helpful for winning “now” if they had kept him for 2006 and 2007.
This “winning for 2006″ might explain some of Omar’s risky moves like taking on Delgado for 3 years, but it doesn’t explain all his errors. He’s made enough of them that I wouldn’t trust him for even 2009.
And I hardly think giving El Duque a 2-year contract was winning for “now.” It was more like reminiscing for yesterday.
Same regarding Castillo, a 4-year deal? come on.
Again the years were too long but there was nothing that he was blocking and he can easily be dumped for just cash.
Elduque’s contract was nothing, besides he could have been forced into the pen. Omar wanted to give Pelfrey a shot.
Again, who cares about Bannister? Who’s spot did you want him to take? Pedro’s, Pelfrey’s? Yes we could have kept him in AAA but Omar wanted a young hard throwing reliever who had already had closing experience. Yet he was not thinking about the future.
Exactly guys look at the time bannister was dumped the mets needed bp help more than SP. Bannister if he was here would have been the #5 starter and frankly no way to tell if he would have had the same success.
Like real said elduque did well for us last year going 9-5 with a complete game. he was a serviceable pitcher with big game experiance..no real gamble there with pelfry in the wings when elduque makes his annual trip to the dl.
Last i truley believe omar made the deal with castillo to secure a 2b for us this year. I think the extra year was given only because houston was close to getting him with a 3 yr contract similar to our other offer. To ensure us a decent 2b this year omar threw in an extra year and castillo bit. Now with that said what were our other options for 2b…gotay..hernandez..reyes…we tried eckstien but that didnt work. Omar was handcuffed and he needed to put a serviceable, decent option at 2b.
and just to add a note here. Ive had to eat my words on castillo a bit. Hes done ok so far here.
I agree 100%. I don’t think Omar has made any particularly horrible moves, just that the overall direction we’ve had since he came in has been flawed.
Mets current playoff odds according to PECOTA:
25.67142%
This is better than the Yankees (13%), Marlins (7%), and Cardinals (23%).
But it still means that chances are about 3x as good that we miss the playoffs than we don’t.
Just thought this might help to put things in perspective.
that’s actually higher than I expected! Wow! LETS GO METS!!!!!
Even with the best roster in the game, we would still be looking at a lot of problems. This organization has always put more of an emphasis on internal politics than on putting the best team on the field.
Remember that line from Fred that appeared on this blog the day after the meeting with Willie a few weeks back? Basically, he said that if Willie didn’t come into the meeting and speak to him in a way he thought he should be spoken to, then he was ready to fire him. Is that really a good way to judge whether or not you have the right person managing your players? I know Willie was already in hot water because of his comments, but still, if he’s the right fit for this team, then your meeting should be about what he needs to win more games. If he’s not the right guy for the job, but he came in and kissed Fred’s ring, he’s safe for a little longer. That’s not how you make decisions.
Then you have Omar. A very charismatic and visible guy when they were winning. You don’t see too much of him now. Those comments came from a fundraiser. They used to come in the broadcast booth when he sat in with the guys and talked directly to the fans. I’m at a lot of the games, so if he’s been doing that and I just haven’t seen it, then I am wrong… But I don’t think he’s done too much of that this year, if any. Did Omar ever join the boys in the SNY booth and give Willie and the team as a whole a very public vote of confidence, or did he just cover his own behind and let everyone else twist in the wind? Omar’s lack of visibility has forced Willie to take on WAY more of the blame than he deserved, and I’m not exactly the president of his fan club.
This team has a fanbase that overdoses on its media. We know when things are good and the right decisions are being made. We also know when we’re being sold a bill of goods by a snakeoil salesman.
And finally, as fans, their bad decisions can only cause us severe frustration and mental anguish. They may have caused Ryan Church, at least to some degree, his quality of life. THAT is what is unacceptable.
“They may have caused Ryan Church, at least to some degree, his quality of life. THAT is what is unacceptable.”
See this is a little trickey because head injuries are weird. There were times that church seemed to be ok and others his symptoms were more severe. I dont think it is an ez blame on the mets brass for what happened to church. Church is a gamer and he took the attiude of most professional athletes that want to play and that is, if he can walk he can play and given the state of the team at that time also that he was our best hitter..of course if he could play he was gonna.
As far as the media thing..The manager is always gonna get blamed for the performance of the team..comes with the territory. I think the fact that the internal meetings were so exposed and the mets brass pretty much told the media willie was safe was enough of a public backing.
As a coach that has delt with player concussions before, it’s not that easy at all. Sometimes it takes days even weeks before the true symptoms appear. The problem is you just don’t know. We had a basketball player that had one that he showed no signs at all for 2 weeks and then all of a sudden temporarily lost his side vision. You just don’t know with head injuries. It’s not like a pulled hamstring or something.
That’s why the right decisions have to be made, and sometimes the right decision is to force the athlete to have ZERO activity.
I spent almost my entire life as a wrestler and in Judo. I was dropped on my head a few times (I know I’m setting myself up for a joke in there from someone somewhere!) It just happens when you do that stuff for so many years. Sooner or later someone without a lot of experience is going to screw up and your head is going to bounce around.
The gamer in me wanted to get right back out there all but one time, but was told that the answer was NO. The one time I DID get right back out there, I didn’t even know where I was or what I was doing.
At any level, from school sports to the majors, you are going to have gamers who are going to want to run right back out there. The really bad decision makers at every level are the ones who let the athlete make that decision on their own. Church should have gone home with a car service from Atlanta and been shut down completely. They really did screw this up.
Who told you No AMS?
My thing is that medical staff was on the fence with church and thats why they just said for him to take it ez. Given that church didnt show signs from the concussion they allowed him to play and no one including the medical staff said otherwise. If the medical people didnt object and neither did church…ya cant blame willie or mets brass for putting him in. If they wanted to be more precautionary, im sure the medical staff would have suggested he go home for a while. I could be wrong but thats my opinion
100% correct with everything you just said. Good observation regarding Omar’s lack of visibility, coincidental, I think not.
How refreshing would it be to have him come on SNY during a game and publicly take some of the blame for HIS team’s problems. I think we would all respect the man more and at least know that he is aware of the situation and is taking steps to correct them. What more can a fan ask for. Not happening.
“To me, .500 is not acceptable because we’re better than that.”
Uh no Omar. After 162 games worth of .500 baseball, the fact remains that this team is a .500 team. No better and no worse. The quicker you can accept that the faster you can try to resolve this issue before you end up a banished to head scouting position for some team out west.
As GM of the NY Mets it’s easy to spend lots of money on big time free agents and trade for big contracts that other teams no longer want, any GM could do that much. The farm system is barren and it’s not because our former prospects are all-stars for other teams, it’s because Omar hasn’t done a good job stocking it. Why can the Yankees and RedSox, both big spending teams still produce top prospects and we can’t? IMHO Omar’s biggest mistake was trading for someone who loudly proclaimed that he didn’t want to play here, it made no sense.
“Minaya also told reporters that he is satisfied with the effort being put forth by his manager and players, which he feels is a playoff-caliber roster.”
And therein lies the problem folks. Delusion and denial.
This kind of attitude is why the overall culture of the Mets will not change and result in a real championship team. It starts at the top and Minaya proved it with this quote.
Can we fire him already?
Omar is just following orders. It’s the OWNERSHIP – always has been with this organization. Faulty – must analyze!!!
You’re right Mgary, ownership hired the wrong GM and Manager and should rectify the situation immediately!
The ownership is at the root of at least a big part of the problem. They just have never decided what it is that they want to be. They don’t like to spend money, but they know they have to spend money to make money. Now they LOVE to make money, so they do spend. Problem is, anytime you really go out and open the wallets, there’s a decent enough chance you aren’t going to get what you think you’re getting. What they almost always refuse to do is cut their losses.
Sometimes they do, like with Sosa, because there’s just nothing left that can be done, but more often than not they just decide to ride out the length of the contract, even if it hurts the team. In that meeting, they apparently told Willie to not base his decisions on money, but they don’t practice what they preach. If they did, Willie would have a better team to manage, even if only through addition by subtraction. Doesn’t mean things would automatically get better, but at least we would have more of a fighting chance.
blah blah blah blah., enough talk Omar, bust some balls
You Omar lovers crack me up. Talking about 09 already, so basically we chuck 08 and along with that he gets a free pass right, we just forget the terrible job he has done this year and leave him in charge for 09. So, on his watch he is the GM of the team that suffered the worst collapse in regular season history and this years team which is turning into the 2008 Version of The Worst Team Money Can Buy. So because of his one good year in 2006 we forget 07, and 08, give him a fourth year, yea that makes alot of sense. I think Almar said it best, can we fire him already. As far as a replacement GM goes, you have an intern GM for the rest of the year and then you go hire one in the offseason, are you going to tell me no one would want to be the GM of the New York Mets?
I agree Omar…..your performance has been unacceptable.
Next time you even think you want to sign an old, injury prone Latino, you should be fired.