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Yesterday, Omar Minaya was quoted as saying:
“The way the club’s assembled, when our full team is on the field, yes, it’s a playoff team…I believe that.”
A playoff team? Unfortunately, the Phillies, Braves, Marlins, and at least 25 other teams in MLB also have the talent to be ‘playoff teams,” as well.
I was given the impression that the Mets had built a ‘championship team,’ one that wins divisions and gets through the playoffs, not just to the playoffs.
Looking at the state of the team today, I don’t see the Mets as being either.
The starting rotation looked great on paper in February, but relied heavily on Oliver Perez pitching like he did in 2007; a healthy Pedro Martinez; and at least a half season from Orlando Hernandez. The assumption was that Hernandez would miss some starts, but Mike Pelfrey would have ‘a breakthrough.’
However, Perez has performed a ‘Jekyll and Hyde routine,’ Pedro has been on the disabled list for most of the season, Hernandez has disappeared, and Pelfrey remains a five-inning, one-pitch pitcher.
Similarly, the offense relied heavily on Moises Alou playing 100 games, Carlos Delgado returning to his 2006 form, and Luis Castillo solidifying the second spot. The lineup was supposed to be strong enough to overcome a .220-hitter behind the plate and a defensive specialist in right field.
Instead the lineup has been punchless, mainly because Alou has appeared in only 14 of the team’s first 62 games, Delgado continues to decline, and Castillo has been a disappointment.
If the Mets truly want to be a playoff team, drastic changes need to be made – in personnel, management, and expectations.
This team can’t continue to expect that Alou, Martinez, and Hernandez will be healthy; they can’t wait for Delgado to ‘get in the groove’; or believe this is the game Pelfrey finally puts it all together. In other words, the Mets can’t ‘hope’ a team to the postseason.
It’s time for management to stop talking about all the supposed ‘talent’ on the roster, forget the illusions of 2006, and come to the realization that this team is a collection of broken-down, overaged, unmotivated has-beens who often sleepwalk through ballgames.
They need to open their eyes, see the same things everyone else sees, and start fixing the problems – because they’re not going to fix themselves.
Hallelujah! You speak the truth Joe!
(reposting from an earlier entry by very relevant to this post) The mediocrity really started when Omar took over now that we look back. He chose Willie against his better judgement but towing the company line instead,…he preached about long-term success and building the farm system yet ended up gambling with old broken down players and has yet to develop a deep farm system to help support the rash of old players breaking down (this reason alone should be enough to get him fired),…he is the one whose underlings have usurped the clubhouse heirarchy by dealing with player issues behind the managers back (is that you Bernazard?),…it was Omar whom committed the first sin of this disaster by not allowing a new manager to pick his own coaches, a long held standard in baseball thats helps managers enforce their authority in the clubhouse.
Should Willie be fired? Absolutely, he was a wrong fit from day one. But Omar is the true architect of this disaster, that is making Steve Philips look like a genius more and more.
While you are right in that Joe made some phenomenal points in his post, you cannot be serious that “the mediocrity really started when Omar took over” and Omar “is making Steve Philips look like a genius more and more.” I have some serious issues with Omar Minaya, but do you have any knowledge of the Mets whatsoever? Philips and Duquette are the ones who created the 2001-04 Mets disaster, and Minaya was the one who built the 2006 team. True, he has only made the team rot since then, but saying that the mediocrity began with Minaya is just plain foolish and ignorant.
Excuse me, but Philips made the playoffs 2x in a row (only Mets GM who can ever say that) and went to a world series.
For all his flaws (and yes there are so many) he’s accomplished much more than Omar has.
well with all this whose to blame business, i can honestly say majority of the mets success during those years was due in part by bobby v and mr mike piazza. sure phillips got piazza, but still like the poll beneath this post whose to blame for the success that year. phillips would come in around 3rd place. but i see what your saying. ventura and zeilie were huge acquisitions.
Yes the success was due to BV and Piazza, but the GM had a hand in that happening, just like he gets a hand in the ultimate failure. I think what did Phillips in was his animosity towards BV that culminated in having to throw him under the bus to save his own ass, which of course did not work the following year.
I see the same thing with Omar happening.
Excuse me, but the team that won in 1999-2000 was NOT built by Steve Phillips. Phillips came to the Mets as a 34-year-old suit with great negotiation skills and no knowledge of what constitutes a winning team.
The team that won back then was assembled by Phillips under the guidance of Bobby V. and Omar Minaya. It was only when Phillips decided he could run things himself without any help that things started to fall apart.
“Excuse me, but the team that won in 1999-2000 was NOT built by Steve Phillips.”
You’re right. It was built by the grounds grew chief.
“Phillips came to the Mets as a 34-year-old suit with great negotiation skills and no knowledge of what constitutes a winning team.”
Replace the word “Phillips” with Omar” and “great negotiation skills” with “great scouting skills” and you have our current GM.
“The team that won back then was assembled by Phillips under the guidance of Bobby V. and Omar Minaya. ”
Oh In see, so know you are giving Omar credit,…no wait, not credit, you are saying that Omar “guided” Phiilips for the decisions that the GM made back then did? Come on, we are all frustrated but seriously.
“It was only when Phillips decided he could run things himself without any help that things started to fall apart.”
Kind of like now?
Phillips was bad, folks. He was bad. Omar, though hasn’t been true to his word. This team is getting older and less athletic by the minute.
This team has a putrid farm system. Teams like the Red Sox, Dodgers, D’Backs, Rays all could have put 4 prospects together for a trade and not completely depleted their farm systems. Sure the farm was weakened by the Johann trade, but it speaks to the state of the system that 4 guys completely empty it.
“Phillips was bad, folks. He was bad. Omar, though hasn’t been true to his word. This team is getting older and less athletic by the minute.”
Yes, Phillips was bad. Thing is he started off good (much like Omar has, or what we are meant to believe with our own eyes) and ended up bad because of bad foresight in the overall development of the organization. Omar is heading towards that direction unless he fixes things up NOW and I don’t mean just firing Hojo, or even Willie.
Otherwise 2-3 years from now we will be saying that Omar was “…bad folks. He was bad.”
I am totally with you there.
“I have some serious issues with Omar Minaya, but do you have any knowledge of the Mets whatsoever? Philips and Duquette are the ones who created the 2001-04 Mets disaster, and Minaya was the one who built the 2006 team. True, he has only made the team rot since then, but saying that the mediocrity began with Minaya is just plain foolish and ignorant.”
Yes I have knowledge of this team being a fan for 35+ years. You see, most people who are in Omar’s camp see the results of 2006 as his bright shining light on his abilities but in my opinion, we are beginning to see that the seeds to this disaster were masked by the overwhelming success the team had in 2006.
As far as Phillips comparison, I was being somewhat sarcastic in saying he is making Philips look like a genius, but lets examine facts. Yes Steve destroyed this franchise and rode BV out on a rail, but fact remains that Steve Philips still built a World Series and 2x post-season team. Omar has a 2006 team that was the best in baseball fall to a .500 team in the NLCS, and the 2007 Collapse on his watch to go along with the penchant of signing of older players that break down because as Darling had suggested, he did not adapt to the changing climate of baseball.
What does Omar have for an encore this season?
My issue was more with your claim that the mediocrity began with Minaya. I don’t refute the success the team had under Phillips, but the mediocrity began with the end of his term and with Duquette. It’s not like Minaya’s reign began in 2000 or something — there were several years in a row of mediocrity-to-awfulness when he got the job.
baseball is, without a doubt, a general manager’s game. of the 3 big sports, the manager has the least value. a good manager is one who can motivate his team and one who does not make stupid decisions. unfortunately, willie is both a bad motivator and prone to making poor in-game decisions.
however, in 1999 and 2000, the mets success was totally on the back of bobby v. i have no clue how he did it, but he took a .500 team and took them to the world series. yeah, the mets had mike piazza, possibly the best offensive catcher in the history of the game, but they had career journeyman todd zeile at first. mike bordick was their shortstop! robin ventura was mediocre at best. they had probably the worst outfield to make it to the world series, ever. benny agbayani, jay payton, timo perez- all 3 were young, and only one finds himself still in the majors. outside of catcher (piazza) and 2nd base (alfonzo), i would take the position player from the 2008 team over the position player from the 2000 team.
bobby v is a genius, and its too bad steve phillips drove him out of town,
“My issue was more with your claim that the mediocrity began with Minaya. I don’t refute the success the team had under Phillips, but the mediocrity began with the end of his term and with Duquette. It’s not like Minaya’s reign began in 2000 or something — there were several years in a row of mediocrity-to-awfulness when he got the job.”
My comments of mediocrity have to do with this current bunch, not the bunch prior. Yes the overall state of the organization can be traced back to the end of Steve’s tenure (or perhaps way before then leading back to the 1992 team), but an argument can be said that Omar gambled that his moves would pay off and turn the organization around 180 which it seemed like in 2006, but instead, with no foresight in mind, it has put us dangerously close to perpetuating the bad team culture of those seasons prior to Omar, if not already.
Omar was able to make the Mets credible again. He put together a very good team in 2006, but he has depended on that same team for the past two years, instead of improving the team. The only improvement since then has been Johan. But I almost feel that the Johan acquisition enabled Omar to mask exactly what he has not done, which is there are many holes in this team which became obvious last Sept. But instead, we have the same team as then, with the exception of Johan. The last I checked however, Johan is not a senior citizen in the OF, is not a capable bench player (well maybe he can hit better than some) and he only plays 1 out of 5 games. That acquisition masked all of our problems and made people forget that we really didnt improve the rest of our team since that wonderful collapse.
The only exception I would say is the Milledge trade. I am big supporter of that trade and Church has proven he does not have many weaknesses in his game. And Schneider is an improvement over LoDuca, defensively and offensively(more consistent IMO).
Eli,
Though I agree that the teams of 99 and 00 had more intangibles and better on-field leadership, they weren’t without talent. The 1999 infield was the best ever in history with only 33 errors all season (only 27 from the starters), leading to only 20 unearned runs allowed for the entire team. That’s how you make it to the post-season without superstars.
1. Fire Willie. 2. They are not a playoff team.
The sad part of the whole thing is we dont even have parts we can sell for prospects. Besides that the pantry is bare down on the farm, I’d love to say let F-Mart and the other young stars come up and show what they can do but there are none. Being a Mets fan right now is like being in purgatory. The only fun thing to root for the last few months was the maturation of Ryan Church and now even that is gone!!!! When does Football start AHHHHH!
wow…..harsh, but ultimately true. Its sad when you think about it, especially after how charged everyone was in the offseason…Perhaps Perez can build up his value, so they can get some nice prospects for him at the deadline
There you go – bout time!!
Well said joe!!!!!!
Spot-on, Janish — as usual.
Attaboy.
“Instead the lineup has been punchless, mainly because Alou has appeared in only 14 of the team’s first 62 games, Delgado continues to decline, and Castillo has been a disappointment.”
Wait wait wait…. How about Carlos Beltran? Delgado’s numbers are CLOSE to Beltran’s and Luis Castillo has the same amount of Homeruns Beltran has had in the past 6 weeks of the season!
If there is a goat, it’s Beltran. Getting paid 20million and putting up dreadful numbers at the plate and he’s the cleanup hitter who’s done nothing.
Beltran also is coming off dual knee surgery, yet has played each and every game, and at least can provide excellent contributions on defense…the others can’t say that.
Knee surgery thends to sap away your power when its on your driving leg, as there is significant muscle atrophy. SInce Beltran has it on both legs, it impacts him on both sides of the plate. Its an excuse yes, but at least I can understand why his numbers are down.
I also think you would see a difference if Willie moved him out of the 4 hole.
yep, its time willie moves beltran to the 3 and shifts wright back a slot. this is what id like to see
Reyes
Castillo
Beltran
Wright
Alou
Delgado
Tatis/Aguila
Schneider
im really tired of chavez starting- the guy cant hit a lick. i love chavez, and have many fond memories of him (the catch, walk off bunt, game tying homer, etc), but its as if we have 2 pitchers at the bottom of our lineup.
agreed!! in fact move everybody up one slot and castillo down to 8
absolutely not should beltran hit 3rd and wright 4th, that makes little sense. beltran should hit 2. when church returns:
reyes
beltran
wright
alou
church
delgado
catcher
castillo
i actually agree, but until church comes back, its a moot point
Absolutely. Wright should absoultely NOT be moved out of his spot. What you’re saying is that you want Beltran to be getting more ABs than Wright? I can see moving Beltran to the 2 hole. Add a little pop there, and he was very effective hitting there for Houston (the reason why he was offered such a huge contract – that monster post season he had for the Stros). Wright is this team’s best hitter and should hit in the 3 hole. I like Beltran 2. The Mets simply don’t have a 4 hitter so I see no one other than Beltran Willie can put there. But that’s this team’s problem. They don’t have enough juice (Delgado – start juicing! please!!). If they had a legit 4 hitter – maybe a Mark Teixeira – the lineup would be that much deeper.
Then you can’t get on Castillo.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying Joe, however I think a little more credit needs to be given to Pelfrey. He has been pitching well of late, and should have a few more victories if the run support didnt run and hide.
everything else im on board, drastic changes need to be made. the team has a good core of position players with schnieder, reyes, wright, beltran, and church. castillo has seemed better recently. if we got a productive 1b and LF, as well as some bench help, the team might turn it around
In my opinion Pelfrey also represents another awful trend with the Mets. Their slogan should read “have prospects, will rush them.” Pelf should be in the minors working, instead he’s been brought up too soon. Out of need, of course, but that is just a wrap-around to the problem of depending on the broken-down older players. It is a bad cycle to get stuck in.
You are absolutely right. Pelfrey should not be in the majors. And while his linescores look better of late, I will not be sold on him until he stops giving up so many hits and walks. With that many runners on in his games, I have to believe his improved results of late have a rather large component of luck.
Of course if the Mets actually followed that motto, Kazmir would never have been traded. The kid never got a chance. The Rays put him in the majors upon arrival (although they didn’t really have many options). I’m just saying.
Much like anyone with any problem, until one admits the problem one can’t confront it, and Omar hasn’t admitted the problem yet.
well said. Omar still envisions this team as being successful. On paper, they are very capable. But Omar put us in this hole by not acquiring ANY depth. He was ill-prepared for any setback, and unfortunately we have suffered many.
What scares me most is that Omar will attempt to patchwork this team in order to save his job while it most likely will not be in the best interest of future seasons.
Swap Beltran and Wright
exactly.. beltran is better suited a #3 hitter. Why hasnt this come up more often?
I agree! Beltran is not a 4 hitter!! He is a 2 or a 3. He has absolutely no protection behind him. Pitchers are no longer scared Delgado. Alou is never in the line up and Church hasnt been around lately. The mets really need a #4 hitter that can hit for power and play 1B or LF!
Wright is their 3 hitter, NOT beltran. Wright’s their best overall hitter and that’s where he belong. Beltran should be at 2, or at 5. Problem is this team DOESN’T HAVE a legit 4 hitter. The Delgado of 4 years ago would be perfect. But they don’t have it. Beltran is by no means a power guy but I think he IS best suited for the 4 hole on this team. If Alou shows he can play for long stretches, which he won’t, I would bat him 4th. But if you switch Wright and Beltran you’re taking a few at bats away from Wright, the superior hitter, and giving them to Beltran – the inferior one. This is my ideal order:
1-Reyes
2-Beltran
3-Wright
4-Alou
5-Church
6-Delgado
7-Scheider
8-Castillo
9-Pitcher
this post is an example of overanalyazation and things look worse when the team is bad.
Truthfully, we don’t have a defensive specialist in right field..well we do now, in Endy, but Church has been good, and he’s injuredrather unexpectedly. Seems to me everyone weas saying “whatever you get from Pedro is a bonus” before the season. so I don’t even count that. Pelfrey has been more than acceptable in the 5th spot. Obviously Perez has been bad, but Maine, except for taxing the bullpen lately, has been consistant, as has Santana. Pedro is back now, and I have to assume he’ll round into form as he gets used to out-thinking batters. I don’t know anyone counted on El Duque to give us morethan Pelfrey has/is.
Obviously the offense is a big issue, but a lot of that is RISP, which Castillo has been good at. They lack some power, but a different approach at the plate that doesn’t mean homeruns isn’t bad.
Castillo is good with RISP??? Have y ou seen how many double plays he has hit into? He is close to leading the league in that category! He hit into one last night with 2 on and 1 out when we needed runs the most.
I do agree that we need Power and i think that should come from 1B and/or LF. We need a #4 hitter!!
I believe he has the highest avg with RISP in the team.
RISP doesn’t tell the story
1)The double plays mean something. He has killed many many rallies singlehandedly
2)His hits are weak. While he can potentially drive in someone from 3rd base with a hit, his singles are often too weak (e.g. the infield variety) to drive someone in from 2nd, and he has virtually no chance driving in someone from 1st. The goal is to score runs, not get a high RISP
3)Even though his RISP is OK now, it’s a small sample size
4)What does your gut say? If the Mets have 1st and 2nd with one out and Castillo is up, do you feel good about it? I don’t. I’m fairly confident it’s going to end up as a medium speed groundball to second resulting in a 4-6DP.
who cares what position it comes from? (and it will improve in LF if alou stays healthy and church when he comes back)
We don’t need a power hitter in the 4 slot, we need a guy that has a high average. with RISP. you could almost make the case for Castillo, as rediculously as it is. This team needs to stop thinking “we need a home run here” With Wright and Castillo and Reyes on the bases, any hit from the #4 should score a run. and then Beltran is fast too. They need to play to this strength by hitting and running, swiping the bag when needed, being able to read hits well and advance first to third, score from second, tag up, etc. And stop sitting on second base expecting to be driven home by a home run. less fly balls trying for the fences means more ability to have singles taht you can run on contact with.
Not that they don’t do this at least some, Reyes dancing on second and getting the pitcher flustered was certainly what this team needs to do.
I said we need Power not HRs! Even though i would be happy with some HR production from the 4 spot. Beltran should be batting 2 or 3 he is not a #4 hitter. Like you said we need someone in the 4 spot that can at least rope a double! Beltran hasn’t been that guy due to the fact that Church/Delgado/Alou haven’t consistently been behind him to protect him. Church was on a roll for a while until the 2nd concussion. So once we get past Beltran batting 4th right now there is absolutely no production!
But yes we definitely need to start doing more of the fundamentals of the game better! Steal bases, pay attention to situations, ect.. This team is not doing that right now.
SheaVendor, may I have your address to send you a slap? Yes, let’s trade Wright. Do you have mental problems?
Wright might be the only position guy on this team I would not trade.
i think he means in the order
Yes!!…Bat Wright 3rd and Beltran 4th…DO NOT TRADE EITHER ONE!!!
I think he meant swap them in the batting order.
Ha. I’ll slap myself then.
I’m not sure that swap will accomplish much, though. The order still usually dies after the 4 hitter, with the injuries the Mets have had, anyway.
wow, did he really mistake that for TRADE??
Hey Hook….What…No apology?
DUH!!!
great post janish. i was reading this and as i got to the bottom, i thought, there is no way this is a cerrone post, he would never bash the mets considering his new sny contract and reluctancy to speak his true feelings since signing the dotted line. great post. all points were spot on. all we have to look forward too is citi field.
obviously you’re new because cerrone has bashed the mets plenty lately.
you can’t say he hasn’t been more delicate since joining sny.
i disagree….
if anything, I believe Matt’s been much more vocal and critical of this team over the past few weeks.
anditsoutthere: thats a horrible post. You obviously are new here and certainly don’t read metsblog daily (or hourly like most of us). You obv believe the perception that Cerrone has sold-out which couldn’t be farther from the truth. If anything, his new access has enabled him to more accurately give his opinions. And his opinions are rational, which many readers here are not, and they focus on this teams inability to field the best 25 man roster and Omar’s inability to provide depth before this season to a team that is very much similar to 2007. He has also enlightened us that this isn’t really Willie’s fault. Willie has been the scapegoat to Omar’s ineffectiveness to provide him with players that can perform under pressure and consistently.
Hookslide, can i have your address to send you a slap?
Pelfrey gets way too much of the blame, as far as I’m concerned. Perez has been a total mess, and Pelfrey has not.
Pelfrey took a no-hitter deep into a game and got a loss because the Mets couldn’t muster up a single run. In the start prior to that one, he pitched well – not amazing – against the Reds by throwing 6 ip with 2 er, and he got the loss.
More recently, he came through with 7 ip with 2 er against the Dodgers and the 6 ip in San Diego with 1 er. Both games were no decisions.
I guess I’m just tired of hearing how Pelfrey is “2-6.” I hate W-L as a stat for pitchers, but it’s so popular that it’s not going anywhere. At the very least, though Pelfrey deserves to be 4-4, perhaps even better in the Win column.
His ERA isn’t horrible for a 5th starter, and he shouldn’t be taking the blame for the woes of the Mets as a whole.
Told ya so?
I just posted this on another thread.
You be the judge…
Worst Team Money Can Buy?
1992 (70-92 0.444 W pct) – 2008 (30-33 0.476 W pct)
C Todd Hundley – Brian Schneider
1B Eddie Murray – Carlos Delgado
2B Willie Randolph – Luis Castillo
3B Dave Magadan – David Wright
SS Dick Schofield – Jose Reyes
LF Daryl Boston – Moises Alou
CF Howard Johnson – Carlos Beltran
RF Bobby Bonilla – Ryan Church
SP David Cone – Johan Santana
SP Sid Fernandez – Ollie Perez
SP Dwight Gooden – Pedro Martinez
SP Bret Saberhagen – John Maine
SP Pete Schourek – Mike Pelfrey
RP Mark Dewey – Duaner Sanchez
RP Paul Gibson – Scott Schoeneweis
RP Lee Guetterman – Aaron Heilman
RP Jeff Innis – Joe Smith
CL John Franco – Billy Wagner
the common denominator is Willie Randolph
that’s just dumb. willie is a 6-time champion along with the captain of great yankee teams.
Send him back to the Yankees then. Maybe thats what they are missing.
it’s still a dumb comment.
i don’t care if he’s fired.
maybe willie was a good player, perhaps, i never saw him play (too young) but that doesn’t make him a good coach.
and his affiliation with the yankees as a bench coach is with diddly. their manager doesn’t even deserve credit for that teams success let alone the bench coach.
willie is not a good manager, never was, never will be.
i cant remember a time he actually showed conviction or heart while arguing a call
great player has nothing to do with great manager, take a look in every sport.
also, just because wilie randolph was a base coach for the yankee dynasty, that makes him a winner? any mlb personnel can step into that role and ride torre’s coattails, what a dumb statement.
i never said he was a great manager. i was making the correct point that making a correlation btw willie’s presence on the 1992 and this one is foolish.
that comment was a response to you, more of a response to the subject.
was not*
Well zen you’re entitled to your opinion. It is an indisputable fact, however, that the common denominator between the 1992 Mets and the 2008 Mets is Willie Randolph, I mean just look at the list. I’m not suggesting anything more, you are inferring and that reflects on you. The criticism I would have thought someone would note was the other common denominator that I missed initially, Howard Johnson. They are the only 2 people associated with both teams. Whether they have contributed to the failure of either I’ll leave to others to decide, but the fact remains, they were both at the scene of both crimes.
a lot more went into that label in 1992 than on-the-field performance. the 1992 team had a lot of jerks on it: saberhagen: bleach; coleman: firecrackers; bobby bo: make your move; cone: playing with self in bullpen.
this team has a lot of good guys…some are just not the ideal players for nyc.
excellent and humorous synopsis of those ‘92 players.
my hunch is we might still have some : playing with self in bullpen.
heilman
What’s the point here, exactly?
Haha…I’m trying to figure that out myself. Maybe both teams look good on paper and both have played horrible. What I take from it is that its the combination of players that really matters. Both of those teams have select great players, but the overall mesh of the teams are very similar in that they are unable to play consistently together and for each other.
We hear all the time about the camaraderie of this 2008 team but obviously that must be over-rated. So I’m not exactly sure what needs to be done, but for 1992 and 2008, both arrangements proved ineffective. (There is ~100 games left however so I will always believe)
It’s difficult to see how this can be fixed this season. Omar dealt all our decent prospects to land Santana, so supposing their is help to be had on teh trade market, how do we get it?
Even if a deal could be done, is it worth further decimating the farm to sign a guy like Dunn or Millar for whats already looking like a lost season?
Is it time to bite the bullet and admit this team is not good enough and with an eye to next season make some painful trades of our own?
Get rid of some overpaid underacheivers and get in some new blood, guys hungry who will fight for success?
Personally I would be willing to give up on this season if we could cut some of the wasters and retool younger for next year.
Me too, though I’m guessing it’d probably be more like retooling for 2010. Which is why they won’t do it with Citi next season.
That’s exactly right. This team is almost always a “buyer” even when they should be selling. (Kazmir anyone?)
What this team really needs is to get young even if that means suffering growing pains.
They wouldn’t do that in a typical year, so no way they will with Citi opening next year. It’s a shame, because that mindset will likely buy many more years of mediocrity with an occasional glimpse of competitiveness.
You’re right. We do always seem to agree. I just hope we’re wrong. Unfortunately I’m not sure most fans would accept the growing pains anyway. It seems like most would still rather try to patch the team we have now.
Hi Gina! I didn’t know that you’d seen that from the other day.
I know I’d accept growing pains. I’d like to think others would too, but maybe you’re right.
When did the New York Mets become the New York Yankees? The following was written about the Mets today in Buster Olney’s blog on ESPN:
The Mets held two separate meetings; the second one ended at 12:15 a.m. And when it was over, GM Omar Minaya emerged and said that manager Willie Randolph and his coaches are safe, writes Brian Heyman. Before the game, each player was handed a sheet that sort of look liked a flow chart, and Roger Rubin saw the sheet and wrote about it here. What follows is speculation that you can take to the bank: Minaya’s decision to hold a late-night meeting is a direct reflection of the angst of those he works for. It’s time to officially re-start the Willie Watch, writes Ken Davidoff.
Can’t you just substitute in the names of Steinbrenner and Torre here? I am so tired of expectations, fear, and failure. I just want to watch the Mets play baseball with heart, win or lose. The thought of midnight meetings, getting the ax, and demands coming down from ownership is absolutely sickening. The Wilpons, Minaya, and Willie need to take a good long look at this team. Personally, after speaking with many Met fans, we aren’t even demanding wins and success. We are demanding that we want our team back.
Thats all I want. A fun team to root for. Someone I can be happy to watch. This is painful. They go through the motions and dont seem to care, win or lose. Its a direct reflection of their manager who THINKS this is the Yankees. One that shows no emotion and gives the same answers in the post-game for 162 games. He actually said he saw some positives last night. How do you believe you are doing a bad job when “your boss” tells you how you are doing a good job?
The Yankees are in the playoffs every year (12 in a row or whatever), so Willie feels entitled. That’s the attitude he has instilled on the players. If you are entitled, then why give 100%? The playoffs will just come to you right?
The champagne always tasted sweet in the Bronx.
Sweet champagne?? I hate that stuff! Gotta go Brut!
Are those people who yelled at those people booing the first week of the season ready to admit that there is something wrong with this team that won’t be fixed just because “it’s a long season”?
Omar: ‘when our full team is on the field, yes, it’s a playoff team,” he said. “I believe that.”
Great post, Joe. I couldn’t agree more.
Omar cannot admit that this team is mediocre. To do so would put him on the hot spot for assembling such a flawed group. The logic of his position requires him to put the blame on others – the players (they are not playing up to their potential) or Willie (the team needs more of a motivator, strategic manager, whatever). Hence, he cannot be the one to admit or fix the core problem.
Well, Omar is a fool for thinking this team would ever be full at one given time. Duque, Pedro, Alou, Delgado? Delgado is the only one consistently on the field, but based on his decline last year, did Omar honestly think that at age 35 he was going to rebound?
that’s the big problem. Omar is CYAing by hiding behind the missing players.
Well, assuming they weren’t going to be missing was a major maistake, especially when you don’t have any viable back ups!
You cut the GM slack if they build a playoff team that doesn’t make it because younger core guys get freak injuries. Not much you can do about that.
Use the Phils as an example. If Utley, Howard and Rollins all went down at the same time with blown knees, quite likely the team wouldn’t win a lot or make the playoffs. But you really can’t plan for that, or hold the GM accountable.
That is different than assuming Delgado would find the fountain of youth, Duque would make 30 starts, and Alou would play 140 games!
The Mets will go on a serious roll at the end of the year when they are out of it and nobody cares.
With the pressure off and nobody watching, they will begin to have fun.
Moises Alou wants to go out doing well
Pedro, Delgado and Perez are playing for contracts
Heilman will throw 20 scoreless innings
Sanchez will reestablish himself
Wagner wont blow any saves since they will not be any important games played
Church will show that the beginning of this season was not a fluke
But in retrospect, maybe we expected too much from a team that had a monumental collapse in the biggest media market with 24 hr media attention.
Maybe they needed to rebuild immediately , start from scratch and throw away this year.
Finally, I do not know if I by this post steriod age argument
Age didn’tlead to Church’s 2 concussions
age hasn’t lead to Beltran and Wright not hitting in the clutch
age hasn’t led to Maine not being able to pitch beyond the 5th inning
age hasn’t led to Perez giving back so many leads
age hasn’t led to Heilman’s troubles
If the above weren’t true then I do not think that we would be talking about the Mets and their age problems.
I’d hope that if the Mets are out of it, they’d trade away some of those players and let them play for their contracts elsewhere.
If Oliver Perez continues to stink up the joint, he might except arbritration. Which means the mets would be stuck with him another season. Decisions to be made are going to be tough.
Perez will not accept arbitration. his numbers will not be that bad. Remember Carlos Silva just signed a $48m deal and he is 4 years older than Ollie and Right handed…CARLOS SILVA!
Joe, I really have to take issue with “castillo’s been a disappointment”. He’s doing exactly what he’s done his whole career. If you expected more than this, you weren’t paying attention.
um … Castillo is a career .295-.300 hitter with blazing speed and supposedly Gold Glove work at second base. He’s currently hitting 30 points below his average, and is hobbled on the bases and in the field by his bad knees. And this is the first year of a four-year deal.
BA aside, his obp is still right there, as are all of his other numbers, on pace to come out exactly in line with his career norms. He hasn’t had ‘blazing speed’ for years. I’ll give you the gold glove rep, but it’s not like he’s been a dog…in fact, he’s made some outstanding plays, particularly turning the dp. I’m certainly not defending the contract; in fact, the reason so many were/are against it is because we knew what we were getting…I don’t see how that qualifies as disappointing.
The WFAN just talked about trading Reyes. You get a star player and get an avg SS to play everyday.
They also talked about biting a financial bullet when it comes to Beltran.
Wow, I can’t believe the season has come to this.
Its fatso and angry puppy. God forbid they speak badly about a former Yankee and one of their weekly spots in Willie. They will blame Mr. Met or Aramark before they blame Willie.
They did say they wouldn’t mind if Willie is fired.
No, they said it is the wrong move, but they understand it is likely going to happen.
I am not in favor of trading Reyes..ever. I would be in favor of trading Beltran though. That would net us solid talent and ease some of our financial burden.
BUT, who will take him? His contract is way too high for a “regular team” to even come close to.
The Wilpons would have to eat a lot of his salary. But I would do it as well. He is certainly not necessary if the team is not playoff caliber. He can go somewhere else and bat .165 for 6 weeks and then go on a 5 day tear to bring his numbers up to respectable levels.
There’s not one of 29 teams that would not take Beltran in this scenario. That should tell you something.
that’s crazy talk.
I thought they talked about biting the financial bullet when it comes to Delgado.
Francesa and Russo may not be likable but they do have a point.
They are suggesting moves to change the short term cosmetics (dump Delgado on somebody) and long term structure (hypothetical Reyes trade ) of this team. I think they threw out Reyes as a lark just to bring the point across.
I like the idea substituting Beltran for Reyes
This team is one player away from contending. Unfortunately that player is David Eckstein and the Mets decided that his win-at-all costs attitude wouldn’t mesh with the win-if-I feel like it mentality that most of the team has demonstrated.
I’m so excited for 3.5 more years of Castillo!
I dont know that David Eckstein is the one player that would turn this franchise around…lets take it easy on that one.
More of a commentay on the team’s hustle and attitude than actually suggesting that Eckstein would save the season.
the guy (Eckstein) is a winner. plain and simple. the mets are full of losers. do the mets have a world series MVP on their roster? so should we really take it easy?
There’s one small problem. Eckstein refused to play second base and was only willing to play shortstop. Small problem dontya think?
Then why isn’t Toronto winning?
It’s more like, Eckstein had no interest in playing 2B. That’s been well documented.
you have GOT to be joking
David Eckstein? Just having him, and Oli wouldn’t be stinking up the joint? and Duaner would be pitching lights out, same with Heilman, and Maine would get through 6-7 normally…and Alou would be healthy..
I hope you were being sarcastic
I will be an old man when that contract runs out, and i’m only 30 now.
It’s like being in a bad relationship. Everyone around you sees the flaws and is trying to tell you the problem but you never listen. You just keep on looking and thinking that what you have is the best thing around…truely sad.
Great analogy.
“Say it ain’t so.”
Can we still be friends?
It’s not you….it’s me.
Theres only 1 player i would trade reyes for, and that would be reyes + a player for Josh Hamilton
Until things get sorted out, can SNY just preempt the live games and show Met Classics? That 1991 game the other night was priceless.
And now a word from Metropolitan Life…(smooth jazz plays).
There are some really great posts above. Most of them dead on with regard to this being a team that will ultimately not improve.
I decided to put together a list of the players I feel will be part of the future that will be bright. We have alot of nice pieces here at the moment. Here goes my spin….
3b – Wright – playing close to his career norms. Still one of the top 5 players in the league under 25
SS – Reyes – playing close to his career norms. Still one of the top 10 players in the league under 25
CF – Beltran – not playing well but should be give some slack since he has surgery on both knees in the offseason and still pretty young. Not a cleanup hitter but a solid #2 or #5 option.
RF – Church – When healthy this year proved he had pop, could hit lefties, plays gold glove capable defense. A bigger part of the future than anyone expected. We have our RF for the next 3 – 4 years
SP – Santana – as good as advertised in my opinion.
SP – Maine – A nice piece to a deep rotation eventually. Probably a true number 3 starter in this league
RP – Wagner – Amongst the top 3 closers in the league
RP – Sanchez – pretty solid set up guy
RP – Joe Smith – a very solid situational righty
RP – Feliciano – a very solid situational lefty
What has gone wrong then if these pieces above are seen as real components of a championship team…..
1) Delgado – 1b Cleanup – Unacceptable performance to date
2) Castillo – 2b – OK but not exciting to me. Trade bait if at all possible
3) Heilman – Just terrible..should be demoted to AAA
4) Entire Bench – miserable including Endy Chavez. No contribution to speak of short of the first 3 weeks of the year with Pagan
5) No long man to speak of
6) Perez, Pelfrey Vargas, Figueroa, Pedro, El Duque have all killed us with either their poor pitching or their lack of ability to get on the field
7) Alou/left field hole – absolutely the biggest cog in the offense that has destroyed the season to date. You can not win when your 1b and LF combine to have like 10 hrs 1/3rd of the way through the season.
Lots to get after in my opinion. Need to begin addressing the holes as we see them and start filling them up now..not for a magical run this year but for a decent opportunity for next year and beyond!!!!
I agree for the most part, but I think you need to take Vargas out of point #6 and …can’t we include The Show in the solid RP category?
How do you propose addressing these holes? We have no farm system and the free agent route is not a way to go. You make some good points, but Met fans have to be patient. There is no white knight out there. The Alous, delgados el duque and perhaps pedro will be gone next year, but for now we are stuck with them, so just support them. You can hate the contract, but don’t hate Castillo. None of these guys are tanking plays, but there skills have diminished. Does it mean you bash them and write this team off in mid june. No it should not. You keep on rooting and hope we can turn the corner.
pretty good summary. You have 10 people coming back, as the core, which is about right.
I don’t expect that the rest of the 15 will be new. Some existing guys will come back, right or wrong.
Pelfrey should be back, hopefully still improving. Castillo unfortunately they may be stuck with. A few spares could resurface too. Maybe Pedro.
So, say 13 guys from the current team come back. 12 need to be replaced.
If they have the opportunity to start weeding out some of the 12 strays now, go for it. Assuming they can get sme prospects or something of value back for it.
Final point: The 10 “core” guys that you have listed is actually a very strong group, that is certainly a good foundation to build a winning team on, and probably better than the top 10 of most teams.
It really is the supporting cast that has killed them.
You grabbed my points completely and added to them nicely. The word I was missing is core. That describes them perfectly. THey are a very good foundation just as you said.
I agree with all your points on the reality that we can not get 13 new players in the next 12 months and be on our way. It will take some time and creativity.
I just hope we do not waste the best years of DW and Jose Reyes and the first few years of Santana’s brilliance on mediocrity. We owe it to these guys to surround them with the right kind of players needed to make the leap from a solid foundation to championship contender.
I have written off this season in terms of competing for a championship. To me…they may get the playoffs or not but we are not built to win the whole thing. Since that is the case, we should start to sell of the pieces we identify that are not part of the core and at the same time…start to identify people in the game that we target as part of the future core.
The biggest issue to me will be the 1b and Lf dilemma. We can not possibly deliver guys from the farm system in both spots. We need a bonafide slugger #4 hitter to be in one of those spots next year.
I am guessing we get Adam Dunn, typical all or nothing guy which I think would be a mistake. I do not think we will get Texiera
The only way that changes are going to occur is if the Wilpons take the reins, because Omar is not going to fire his scapegoat. Fred and Jeff have to look at all the orange seats surrounding their field and realize that as bad as they thought the fan’s antagonizism toward the team was at the start of the season, that’ll seem like sunshine and flowers compared to the apathy that is going (or has already started to arrive) to cloud the fanbase.
Come on Janish, all this team needs is a winning montage then we’ll be a playoff team
“The time is now.”
That’s what I’ve been saying, forget about holding people accountable, this team needs a catchy gimmick
“Come for the baseball, leave with the hangover”
That’s about right. Can they paint that on the side of the stadium where the “Baseball is Back” banner once stood?
You guys and Joe are all horrible. We lose a few games in a row and its all bash bash bash on here. HOW ABOUT SUPPORTING YOUR TEAM!! The results have not been there the past 5 games, but you cant say the effort has not. Unfortunately, the bullpen has fallen apart the last 2 games. Forget about trades folks. you are a moron if you think we are getting anything for Ollie or Delgado. wags aint going anywhere. No one is running away with the wild card, so unless the roof totaly caves in, we will be competing for a playoff spot.
CAN WE ALL JUST STOP THE NEGATIVITY AND EMBRACING NEGATIVE ARTICLES LIKE THIS ONE AND SUPPORT YOUR TEAM. I am just as frustrated as anyone else with the mediocrity but I’ll never quit on the mets like most of you have. You guys must forget how bad the late 70’s and early 80’s were or are too young to remember.
They didn’t have the payroll that they have now in the late 70’s and at least in the early 80’s they were building a young winning ballclub.
I don’t think fans have quit on the Mets. If they did, why would they even bother with this blog? I think there is immense frustration with the organization as whole.
Like others have mentioned, this team was touted as being a championship caliber team, which is a far cry from what was expected in the late 70s and early 80s.
Seriously, it’s the PLAYERS who have quit on the Mets. Last time I checked the Mets still draw better than the majority of teams in baseball.
What players have quit? You can make a claim delgado was doggin it for a while but his effort has been there lately. Castillo limps around the field at times, but has he quit? Wright reyes beltran and Pedro have all quit. Wags has quit so he decided to give up a 3 run HR sunday. Joe Smith has quit and gave up a HR to lose the game last night. I repeat WHO HAS QUIT?
You honeslty think that this team with this talent which is 3 games below .500 has given it their all up to this point?
Do I think this team has given it its all? No, the effort was a bit suspect at times in May, but since Willie’s job was on the line on Memorial Day, I think the effort has been there. People forget that a team of 25 year olds w/o big contracts has a lot more motivation than a team of veterans with big pay checks. That being said the effort should still be there most if not all of the time. However, from a personal standpoint as soemone who was a pretty good basketball player, I played a lot harder when i was 25 than when I was 35, b/c unfortunately, your body can’t do everything at age 35 that you could do it 25. I don’t expect Delgado and Alou to be diving all over the field and hustling 100% of the time. Alou breaks down enough already and Delgado is no spring chicken.
ok hubie, you can’t be serious!! keep on wearing your rose colored glasses and enjoy thinking they r just in a little skid. This isnt just losing a few in a row!!! THIS is 5 losses in a row, getting swept by the lowely pads, and being an overall sub .500 team for the past year . will seven, eight , nine losses in a row bother you ??? trust me no one is boycotting or gonna stop watching. watching and rooting for the mets is in our blood and we feel empty without it. with that being said we all have the right to go nuts and call for change bc its been a year now of this garbage and just bc some of us were too young to remeber the 70’s and 80’s doesnt mean we dont have the right to call for change.
Comparing this season to the Mets of the late 70s and early 80s is patently ridiculous. Those teams weren’t in the same universe when it came to expectations.
Dude, you are missing my point. There are no changes to be made right now. This is the team we are going to battle with. We have no farm system left to trade from and there is no white knight out there to rescue them. If you don’t like the team, then don’t watch. IF YOU DO SUPPORT THEM.
It bugs me when people suggest trading Heilman and Pelfrey. Why would you trade 2 talented but struggling pitchers when there value is so low? Do you really think getting Kevin Millar is worth it? Xavier Nady will cost us anything left in the farm.
Realistically, I think the Phils are primed to win the division, but I do think this team can win the wild card. A healthy and productive Pedro and Church would help that.
I will post this in 2 parts as it is not coming up in one long post
“A playoff team? Unfortunately, the Phillies, Braves, Marlins, and at least 25 other teams in MLB also have the talent to be ‘playoff teams.’
I was given the impression that the Mets had built a ‘championship team,’ one that wins divisions and gets through the playoffs, not just to the playoffs.”
Yes but along with that impression im sure you were also aware that this year was not going to be a cake walk like 06(which to this point has played out exactly as we all SHOULD have known it was). Given a good bill of health this team can be just as competitive as any other team as we have seen glimpses of it when everyone who omar wanted to be on the field and the lineup is there. Not making excuses for the injuries but you have to admit…things have not gone as planned from the get go
“The starting rotation looked great on paper in February, but relied heavily on Oliver Perez pitching like he did in 2007; a healthy Pedro Martinez; and at least a half season from Orlando Hernandez”
We relied heavily on OP to produce like he did in 07 because he did produce in 07. He stepped up and merited those expectations. No one could have forseen pedro lasting 3 innings to start 08 and be absent for 2 months and we expected to have Orlando to start the season at #5…Obviously this and many other things have not gone as planned.
“Similarly, the offense relied heavily on Moises Alou playing 100 games, Carlos Delgado returning to his 2006 form, and Luis Castillo solidifying the second spot. The lineup was supposed to be strong enough to overcome a .220-hitter behind the plate and a defensive specialist in right field.
Instead the lineup has been punchless, mainly because Alou has appeared in only 14 of the team’s first 62 games, Delgado continues to decline, and Castillo has been a disappointment.”
We all knew the Delgado from 06 was gone and I for one did not expect Delgado to produce as he did in 06 but rather put up avg numbers for a first baseman. The severity of his decline yea was very unexpected but if you expected Delgado to produce as in 06, you were asking for a world of disappointment. Alou we knew we would not have him the whole year but we did not expect him to be out to start the year..but on the same token, his replacement did very well to cover that spot(as far as his individual performance, his affect on the lineup however is a different story). Castillo ill admit at the beginning of the year he was stuggling but I believe he has settled into the 2 hole and is giving reyes more protection. I don’t have his stats but im sure hes doing a lot better now than he was to start the season. And he has played pretty regularly than what we thought he was going to play. Castillo has picked it up IMO
why is the fat guy and the dog suggesting trading reyes??? thats just stupid
One of the only players with REAL trade value.
I am not saying the Mets should, but that’s why.
Well that’s ridiculous, just because this team sucks doesn’t mean you give up on your young core, fire the manager and cut the old fat.
what??
They made that suggestion to shake the team up. I think it is better to shake the team up by sending Carlos Del… and moving Ollie Perez. I think Reyes would be huge but not effective.
I didn’t read your whole thesis, but regarding your point about the injuries, if you go into a season with Pedro, El Duque, Castillo, and Alou as main components, you’d be stupid not to expect injuries.
Im sure they were expecting injuries to these guys but im sure they were not expecting them so soon. I wish i could finish posting the rest of my analysis but i think i overan my limit idk
There’s no reason they shouldn’t have been expecting them so soon, it’s not like players get less injury prone as they age. If anything they’ve gotten lucky that Delgado and Beltran haven’t visited the DL yet, or that no injuries have occurred to unexpected players.
Where i was getting at was the team has not really been the team that omar put down on paper yet to start the season. There have been injuries very early in the season that may have had an impact to where we are at today. Yes some have filtered back in the equation but we have not fielded “the team to beat” so far this year. Even so pagan did an ok job for alou being out and while pelf has been up and down, hes done what i think(again i dont have the stats) the avg is for a #5 starter. No team has an allstar as their 5th starter. Thats all i am saying. Judge a team by their results as a healthy team playing at potential rather than a team that has been playing with replacements all year IMO.
Can we please stop blaming Luis Castillo for this team’s bad play. I understand he’s not the greatest 2Bman in the world and Lord knows none of us would have signed the guy for 4 years, but that’s not his fault. His OBP. this year is right where it should be….and that’s his job to get on base. The real problem with this team (one among many) is the overall batting average with RISP, its awful….and you can thank Delgado, Beltran, and even our golden boy DW for that.
Willie is so arrogant and ignorant, today he had the nerve to say “Arizona is not an elite team in the NL”.
HA! They made the playoffs last year, Willie did not. They are in first place, Willie is in 4th. What a jerk
Did he really say that?
If he did, that is absurd.
Just in case they weren’t fired up enough to come in and beat up on us.
Let them, until changes are made, this team is dead man walking
check the nypost article, you can find it online. it is at the bottom of the “alou thinks mets are a playoff team” article.
When will this idiot learn to shut his mouth, once and for all. I hope the Diamondbacks blew that quote up in their locker room today and laugh at our pathetic our manager is. Which of course will be followed up by a complete beatdown of Mike “One-Pitch” Pelfrey.
And great article, Joe.
*how pathetic our manager is.
Unless you are reading that elsewhere, your quote is not entirely accurate:
The Diamondbacks began the season as one of the majors’ hottest teams but had lost 14 of 20 before last night. So Randolph wasn’t ready to label Arizona one of the NL’s top teams.
“Probably not,” he said, citing the recent slump. The D’backs were 28-16 on May 18 before their swoon began.
How am I misconstruing that? He was asked if the D-Backs are a top team, and he said no. Pretty black and white there. Regardless of one little slump (Willie has been in a big slump for over 170 games now), they won their division last year, made the NLCS, and are currently in first. So he is simply a moron.
where are all the people that called some us chicken littles in september of last year?
right here, chagrinned that we were wrong and annoyed at those of you who continue to trumpet that you were right.
So, when can we expect the changes to be made. Any one want to go on record here?
End of season at the earliest, this season will most likely waste away.
Two weeks, if this abysmal play continues.
If they haven’t fired Willie by now, what makes you think they’ll change their minds in two weeks?
For those imbeciles (like almar 1965) who are blaming all of this on Willie Randolph lets examine some of the elements of this disaster:
1)starting pitchers that go 5 innings
2)a scatter armed Oliver Perez who I’d drive to the airport just to get him out of NY
3) bringing up a player like Nick Evans from double A
to play a position that he has no experience at
4) having a 4 man bench (2 of them catchers) when
they should have disabled Church on May 23
5) the signing of a 34 year old 2B when your LF is 41 and your 1B is through.
And Mets fans want to fire Willie !!!! Who is his replacement Wally Backman or Bobby Valentine –that will change things right ?
If I had a dollar for every Willie apologist I’d retire tomorrow.
Hey X-manI am not a Willie apologist , but who acquired all these players ? Maybe I should inform you of something- THIS IS NOT A GOOD BASEBALL TEAM. The front office must take responsibility for this you moron !!!
Are you an umpire?
No I am a realist who knows a ballplayer when I see one. Abreham Nunez and Fernando Tatis will not get this team to the World Series nor will a over the hill Delgado or a Alou who is one sprint from another stint on the DL . Who acquired these players ?
No one is saying it’s all Willie’s fault, but you can’t fire the players and firing the GM won’t do anything in terms of this year. The only certainty we have is that whatever Willie has done to motivate this team hasn’t worked, so how would it possibly hurt to change managers? What would be the negative? Can someone please explain that to me?
There is nothing wrong with firing a manger but rarely does a managerial change anything for the long run. You can change managers , have meetings ; bottom line this is a old broken down team whose year was 2006. Besides if you fire the manager who is his replacement ? Temember this is a veteran team very set in their ways . If I hear Bobby Valentine’s name one more team I ‘ll jump off the Brooklyn Bridge.
Marlins changed manager in mid-season in ‘03 and won the world series.
Houston changed manager in mid-season in ‘05 and got to world series.
As for who is the replacement, who cares? Somebody other than the guy who has managed a team that has severely underachieved for a season and a half.
Hey mets fan 119 you should be reminded of something : both of those teams had a talent base–not a bunch of players who are over the hill.
The core of Santana, Maine, Wright, Reyes, Beltran, and Wagner are just as good as the core of those teams.
and this team is below .500 in the past 162 games. let the leader take responsibility for that.
I don’t blame Willie. I don’t think he is a great manager, but he isn’t horrible either. I blame the players, they just aren’t producing, for whatever the reason.
But you have to agree this team needs change, and you can’t fire the players
I agree to some extent. I don’t know how much a change of managerial position will help over the long haul.
I think they need trades.
After Citifield opens and the Wilpons remember that they have a team thety own that is wildly underachieving
Off topic,
1) I think the mets own the record for “most hard hit line drives that is hit directly to a person” in a single season
2) Also the record for “most web gems against”
That’s an excellent question, I wonder what the team’s collective BABIP is as opposed to their career BABIPs.
this would be great to know, can somebody with a baseball prospectus account check this out? I don’t know where else to look that up. i’d wager at least beltran and wright are way under their career marks
I can’t tell you for the whole team but yahoo sports lists metrics for individual batters so I can list what our starting line-up looks like.
Reyes- .308
Castillo- .274
Wright- .305
Beltran- .290
Church-352
Alou- 372
Delgado-. 282
Schneider- .297
according to yahoo the league average last year was .306.
I could be wrong but I don’t think that Willie having an approval rating of 1 and 666 people voted for it is a good omen
Omar should sit there in the stands with the fans and watch the scoreboard when the player averages are displayed when they come to bat! Playoff team? Championship team? Not one player has a batting average over .300!!!!! This lineup is a disgrace…….Omar is delusional with his line of crap about a championship team……..
To the last comment made by NYMBosco, I say “amen”. Not only is he delusional as to the type of team he has two additional things must be said here:
1- Omar believes this team is a .500 team because when they pitch they do not hit; when they hit they don’ t pitch well – this is a trademark of a losing team which this team is.
2- He will not fire Willie because if he does and the team does not improve (and it won’t ) he is next in the line of fire
I agree with your number 2, that is why it’s so damaging to have hands off owners like the Wilpons.
Exactly! maybe a 70s Mets team could do it w/ outstanding pitching.
Here’s what most of us thought this year: we’re going to tear the league up hitting: Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Delgado, Church (remember power projections as compared to DC?), and Castillo–yes, Cast. b/c he a .300 lifer. No one expected much of Schneider, save to be a great defensive catcher who would be terrific w/ the staff.
As for pitching, we expected an early-70s-type staff (or ‘86 for that matter). In my mind, I felt sure that Santana, Martinez and Maine would get betw. 17-20 Wins, and perez would be good for 15. Idiotically, I thought we would see the Pelfrey who we were promised (Nyuk!).
And if our staff faltered, we had a great pen, incl. Sanchez, Smith, Feliciano, and Wagner.
Unfortunately, nothing but nothing has worked, save for Wagner and Church, but for all we know it may be a cold day before we see Church back to normal.
As long as I hold out for a miracle, the Mets might be great in ‘08. The real mets fan side of me says .500 or worse.
Put together some serious wining streaks and I will forgive them the past year’s misery. UGH!
Hey Joe — brilliant hindsight. WTG!!!
Your anger suggests that you were duped and drank the Kool-Aid, so you can’t say you saw it coming.
And well: “They need to open their eyes, see the same things everyone else sees, and start fixing the problems – because they’re not going to fix themselves.”
I guess you can’t even anticipate a future that includes contracts expiring at the end of the season. Wow — October — that is YEARS away!!! Right?
Lets remember that Omar is Steve Phillips’s protege. They both have the same “win now” philosophy The problem is that this lends itself to trades or free-agent signings for over-the-hill or soon-to-be over-the-hill players.
Not much of an “official” blog post–lots of posters on here have been saying the same thing all season, to varying degrees, and sometimes even in more detail…??