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In an emotional, and must-read report for SNY.tv, Ted Berg writes:
“I’ve written all along that, rather than playing without hustle or heart or desire or the killer instinct, the Mets are merely playing without that much talent, a predicament far more tangible and fixable than the ones so many of my colleagues have lamented…Now, I don’t know what to think. Maybe everything I thought I knew is wrong. Maybe these Mets are too accustomed to losing, after all. Maybe they’re underachievers. Here I thought they weren’t winning games because they can’t hit. Maybe they simply can’t win games…I should love this job…But every day, with every agonizing Mets loss, it becomes harder. I can only imagine how the players feel.”
…i sense that fans are giving up, emotionally speaking…it’s not that fans will stop watching or stop attending a game here and there, at least not yet, it’s just the passion that so many of us had in the middle of last season is long gone…
…and, apparently we are not alone…
…i have talked with a few agents who keep in touch with players, who knows players, i have talked with people connected to the team, people connected to its players, etc., and the sense i get is that there are several people on this team – key players – who are sick of the pressure, sick of the booing, sick of the media, sick of New York, and, if the team is winning it is tolerable, but, if the team is losing, they just can’t take it…
…i know Willie Randolph wants us to ‘turn the page,’ he wants us to focus on the future, and the long season that still 
remains…the thing is, like it or not, The Collapse is always looming…it hangs over all of our heads like a black cloud…the fans are still being affected by it, and players are still being affected by it…
…and so, i am starting to believe that this organization may need new players who have not been impacted by Game 7 and The Collapse…they may also need a new voice to lead them…the fans need new people to cheer, and to provide hope and something different…something other than the same slogans, the same results, the same players, the same cloud that is putting pressure on the players and depressing the fans…at this point, it’s not just about making the playoffs and winning baseball games, it’s about keeping us interested, passionate and hopeful…
…i want to believe this current group can get beyond all of this, and in some cases i do, but ownership may have too much riding on all of this to simply rely on faith at this point…
“who are sick of the pressure, sick of the booing, sick of the media, sick of New York”
Let me be the first to say then, get the H-E-double hockey sticks out!
Concur. Both New York franchises are shelling out the most $$ in terms of payroll in their respective leagues. They wanted the $$, they should handle the boos.
So the players are sick of the pressure, booing, media, NYC, whatever…….. Whose fault is it that they collapsed in 07, the fans or media? Maybe they should be sick of losing and playing like bums! It’s time for these clowns to look in the mirror at themselves and not blame the fans, city or media for there problems! If this is the way some of the players really feel they should be embarrassed, they’re getting paid millions to play a kids game, stop stealing money if you can’t deal with it.
Point for point. SPOT ON.
They may be sick of the booing, and I think the booing is in bad form, but that should not be anywhere near the top of their priorities. Their home record blows away their road record, so they might be sick of hearing it, but it’s not the root of their problems. And this team can be in fourth place with or without anyone who is so unhappy with their fans that they would rather go and play somewhere else.
Im DONE hearing about the “collapse” already! This is a different year and last years “collapse” no longer has anything to do with the way The Mets are playing this season!
Are we gonna be bitter about it like an ex girlfriend who broke your heart or are we just gonna move on like the Men (and Women) that we are!
I havent given up on this year yet but I have given up using last years “collapse” as an excuse to feel bad!
“Last years ‘collapse’ no longer has anything to do with the way The Mets are playing this season.”
Disagree. Haven’t you noticed they’ve been playing most of this season the same way they played in September of 2007? (Lazy, sloppy, disinterested, no clutch hitting, bad bullpen work, etc.) It’s a continuous thread. The collapse has EVERYTHING to do with what’s going on now.
so how long should we keep bringing it up? Months? Years? Decades?
2001 was a collapse of an entire team… not just 1 month and no one talks about that!
GET OVER IT!
Sorry but I have to agree with Toasty. While I’m usually on the side of stats, there is certainly a psychological/emotional issue with the current players. I assume you’re willing to concede that ever after you get your heart-broken, you move on but you aren’t quite the same. You tend to remember what happened and try to be better for it. These players are seeing the signs of last September, and knowing what will come (if things continue) they’re already depressed about it.
You can say get over it but you didn’t cause it. People are happy to bring up Glavine’s comments after the final game last year, and how he should have been more upset. He did what you wanted, said it sucked but it’s part of baseball and get over it. People blasted the crap out of him. The “turn the page” mentality is the same idea. So what do you want, the players to “get over it” or show they care? I’d rather they show they care by coming out fired up and angry, but that’s not how everyone responds.
As for the “so how long should we keep bringing it up? Months? Years? Decades?”, making wildly exaggerated points is an obvious sign of a weak argument. You don’t hold on forever, just like (most) people have stopped bring up Beltran’s K in the NLCS, but you tend to look at the current season and compare it to last year regardless of year/team/league/sport/etc.
The point is not for the players but the fans to stop dwelling.. There is NO collapse this year cuz they are not in first… Id rather see them battle and claw their way up in hopes that if they do make the playoffs, they know how hard it was to get there and will play with more passion…. if they dont make it, then we all know that this team wasnt capable of it
You do learn from the past, but you DONT make it the reason for whats going on TODAY
agreed. Some people just would rather hold on and use what is going on in 2008 as a reminder of 2007. This team is just not executing properly/consistantly. We are not in first so therefore the collapse has nothing to do with it. Everyone knew going into this year it was going to be a dog fight…Why is everyone so suprised when it is what we all thought it was going to be????
I just disagree. It’s like I said before, fans/columnist/bloggers all judge a current season as it relates to the last (to some degree). The team looks like they’re still playing in Sept ‘07, so the fans react accordingly. To say the collapse has nothing to do with the demeanor of the team is naive IMO
“I just disagree. It’s like I said before, fans/columnist/bloggers all judge a current season as it relates to the last (to some degree). ”
Is this perhaps the reason why you think-”The team looks like they’re still playing in Sept ‘07″
and therefore-”the fans react accordingly”
If you want to “judge” this season as it relates to past seasons that is your perogative, but dont say that we “all” do this because frankly i dont and im sure there are alot of people out there that treat this season as 2008. 2007 is in the books IMO. We have a few new parts to begin the season so IMO this is a new year and this bunch was not the same ones that collapsed. They are just not executing consistantly and thats why they are losing. To say they are not executing because of the collapse IMO is not the reason.
So you believe the players have completely divorced themselves from the events of last year? There is no lingering doubt in the back of their minds?
Let me be more clear. I’m not saying the last year is the reason the players are not executing, I’m just saying that it’s a reason. There’s no way to objectively judge it’s level of impact.
lingering doubt or not, they need to get over it…… but again this is more about the fans moving on. just stop dwelling on negative past events for once… METS FANS!!
“There’s no way to objectively judge it’s level of impact.”
-BINGO
sick of the booing and sick of the media pressure??? give me a break!
I’m not saying that the booing to a point cannot become demoralizing and that the NY media doesn’t their large share of hacks but
YOU ARE PROFESSIONAL BALL PLAYERS! ITS PART OF THE JOB AND A PART THAT THE MILLIONS YOU MAKE THAT REQUIRES YOU TO DEAL WTH IT!
I just get a sense (i hope i’m wrong) that when the Mets lose and some players think “oh well, stil making a ton of money, life is good so no biggie!”
This is why there is a:
disconnect b/w fans and the team
lack of any chemistry
lack of hustle on some players part (def not all)
losing record currently.
ahh whatever, i am just ranting due to my frustrations with this team. I just don’t want this to turn into another lost season like this franchise is used to having…
With that said, knock the crap out of Webb tonight!
Oh, and I’ve actually imposed a boycott on the my watching the Mets this week.
I’m with you on the boycott.
Also, doesnt this sound a bit familiar? This Mets team was supposed to BE the new team, remember? The team that wasnt afraid of the Braves, a team that “wasnt a part of all those bitter defeats at the hands of Atlanta”. Sorry to tell ya, but this is just the way the Mets are, and always have been for as long as I have been a fan – lovable losers. Only I friggin hate this team, except for a select few.
“and the sense i get is that there are several people – key players – who are sick of the pressure, sick of the booing, sick of the media, sick of New York, and, if the team is winning it is tolerable, but, if the team is losing, they just can’t take it…”
Gimme a break. If they can;t take the booing and the media, start playing with some passion and desire, and win some games. Unreal. Bunch of primadonna’s. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
hmmm, i wonder who these players are??? 1st base, centerfielder, 2nd base
Actually, CF got booed pretty heavily in his first season here. He responded with a pretty decent 2006. This team won’t win without Beltran producing. So we should really all get behind him with enocuragement, rather than boos. We all do want the Mets to win….don’t we?
Id rather have them lose than have to cheer beltran on like you would to encourage the uncoordinated kid on a little league team
Beltran plays hard, and he is clearly upset whenever he makes an out. He has been roping pitches lately unfort its right at someone. If you want to Boo he is not the guy it should be directed at…
The problem here in New York is the level of expectations. Carlos Beltran while a solid player is simply not a superstar. He’s never hit for a high average, his power comes in bunches and is not an elite home run hitter. He’s got speed, which has diminished slowly, and clearly the best part of his game is his gold glove defense.
But after the postseason he had in Houston – an unbelievable one – he received a huge contract. Like any of us on here he signed the contract that Omar Minaya offered him. I put no blame on Carlos for not magically becoming a superstar. Carlos Beltran is an above average regular. He should be hitting 2 for this team or 5th. But they don’t have a legit 4 hitter so we’re expecting big things out of him (and he had a good season for the Mets, true, but that type of season is Beltran’s offensive peak – not norm) and they’re just not coming.
I had a sense since the beginning of this season that some of the players felt that way. I’m with you guys. If you can’t take it… get out! Regardless of who you are. Those guys that you listed are the usual suspects and I suspect them too. That being said the manager could and should be doing a whole lot more to get the most out of this team. Willie certainly is not getting the most out of this team and he should not have “supreme confidence” in guys who aren’t getting it done.
Please remind them to leave their New York-sized paychecks by the door on the way out.
That is why getting Schneider and Church and signing Johan were great moves. These people are clearly unaffected by the cloud since they weren’t here. Alou and Pedro are probably the only other two that seem unaffected and that is probably because they were only here for part of the collapse.
They probably should make one move to see what the effect it. Delgado seems like the best candidate. I’m sure we could get something for him if we ate part of his salary
“key players – who are sick of the pressure, sick of the booing, sick of the media, sick of New York, and, if the team is winning it is tolerable, but, if the team is losing, they just can’t take it…”
Hey Matt, you forgot to add “sick of the New York paycheck.” Oh wait, nevermind.
…so does this mean we’re breaking up?
Probably the best comment ever.
Not to mention the fantastic name to go right along with it
Great post, Matt. I agree completely that the mgmt needs to realize that this team, regardless of talent, is not going to get it done. I’m at the point where I would MUCH prefer they start rebuilding (though I realize it isn’t realistic to do too much before the ASB). The whole thing is like a married couple in a dysfunctional relationship staying together for the kids. Everybody would be happier if they just got divorced.
great write up matt, pretty much says it all. Not even Bill R. can save this sinking ship.
Omar will use Bill R. as a scapegoat to buy himself another year, and if any of us were in his spot we’d do the same thing. Fact is, Omar assembled this mess and its going to be near impossible to shed all the dead weight mid-season. So, he will ride it out, we will finish no better than 3rd, Willie will get fired, and he’ll pray he can unload some of these terrible contracts as they get closer to expiring. After all that, we will have to trust these decisions are sound ones, which I don’t have too much faith in.
He will want to make a big splash, which in most cases is simply a quick fix, when heading into the new stadium. The Mets have been doing this cycle for YEARS.
Why not just unload the whole thing with the exception of maybe 5 players, stock up on prospects, and commit to DEVELOPMENT for a few years?
They did it in the early 80’s when Cashen took over, and developed a powerhouse. It may not always work out, but its a more sound plan than continually throwing a patch over a leaking boat.
I would rather spend the money for this reason. If you commit to rebuilding and basically forfeiting winning for the next few years, you can still wind up with lousy prospects in your system. Then if that doesn’t work, what do you have to show for it? Nothing. Then that cycle starts all over again. Only difference is, it takes another 5 years to complete it.
I’m all for building a solid young core of a team from within, but you still need to use the free agent market to either build a bench, find a key role player, starting pitcher, or power hitter. just can’t give them the 7 year deals anymore.
Honestly just with keeping the core of Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Santana and Maine they can be pretty competitive if just some young prospects pan out.
but it’s still too early for that. They still do have some time to figure this out.
What do we have to show for what we’re doing now. And no one said anything about not using the free agent market. the problem is we seem to be doing it in replace of investing in our farm system and building a solid foundation to support the major league team. We don’t have to go out and sign every type a free agent on the market, we can get a few cheap role players to build a bench. But if we’re going to go after key starters and power hitters then I’d expect we’re going to have to keep giving them 7 year contract. It’s not like the terms of their contracts are entirely our decisions.
Not to mention with our financial clout there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to be competitive, or at least maintain what we’re doing right now, and rebuild at the same time. The Red Sox invested in their farm system and they still managed to win two world series, and now they have young players for years coming up.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other, as long as the front office can make smart moves and evaluate talent well.
So who do we keep? I think you’d have to keep Wright, Reyes, Maine, Santana and the Mole (whose centerfield defense is always excellent, even when his bat isn’t)
keep church and schneider too.
they could probably get something decent for Schoenweis from a team that needs a lefty and we would get out from under his contract for next year.
if they pull another kazmir/zambrano type deal, they’re going to have a riot at citifield. i really hope they choose the development route, like you suggest.
Cant blame Omar for somebody elses mistake. Also we don’t have a Kazmir like prospect. F-Mart??? If he didn’t go for Santana then he’s not goin anywhere.
If we can get Holliday I send Fmart packing.
look at his numbers away from coors. not even close to worth it. especially with the huge contract he’s likely going to be asking for.
Remember when L.MillZ was the next big thing? Alex Ochoa… Escbobar… you remember those names? Prospects are suspects. Once in a while a Kazmir will get away..
I take Holliday anyday over Fmart. For the record CO would need more than fmart.
Great post. Keeping Omar only amplifies the pressure for a short-term fix to the long-term detriment of the team. A new approach is clearly needed.
Bill R. is a big part of the problem.
The Bill R experiment is OVER!
after last night’s loss the team fell to a .500 record (1-1) when delgado get his uniform dirty.
I absolutely feel the fan base is giving up. The postgame threads on losses were approaching 1000 just a few weeks ago. Yesterdays postgame thread….168.
Not to imply that every fan posts on this blog, but I think that it can represent a microcosm of the fanbase as a whole.
I know I’ve cared less lately. I used to watch every minute of every game. Now I watch most of the games but not all and it usually depends on who’s the starter.
I’m with you. I used to watch every minute of every game…………..even got MLB.tv to watch at work. Now I jsuut tune in to see how badly they are losing. How sad is that!?!?!!
Obviously, this is your opinion. I just don’t have one any more. I’ve theorized a lot, but I’m not even sure the players know what the problem is.
I don’t think this team is weak (mentally). Maybe they just lack the proper guidance, whether it’s the approach at the plate, to the media, or losing. I don’t know.
Maybe they need to have a couple of days of media black-out, where they don’t talk. Maybe they need to elect David Wright leader, and for a couple of days have him be the ‘media relations’ guy for the players, but that’s an unneccesary burden on him and it’s not like he’s immune to the not hitting in clutch situations lately.
Maybe just the opposite, maybe Willie needs to leave them out there to get grilled. Mandate that they all sit with the media and answer all the questions and the grilling. Open the floodgates, let them air it all out, and then they won’t have anything to hide from the media and they can stop being scared of them.
I just don’t know. I hope someone does. As they supposedly said in this meeting, they do have time to figure it out. Even if it takes another month, if they figure it out and play up to how they should, I’ll have faith they’ll come back and win even if they’re 12 out.
“key players – who are sick of the pressure, sick of the booing, sick of the media, sick of New York, and, if the team is winning it is tolerable, but, if the team is losing, they just can’t take it…”
Wow, this comments bothers me a lot. It’s NY and players new when they signed here what it would be. Here is what I am confused about. Why is it that when the yankees sign a free agent, there seems to be no problems? But when the mets sign a guy, he can’t handle it? Is it the fact the team is losing? Must be.
To me, it is time to rebuild. I said before, call up these kids who are performing really when in the minors. This is the only way, the mets can see what they got. Trade players away. Wagner, Perez, Heilman, Show, Castillo, Alou, Delgado. I know some guys have little or no value, but, get them off the team. I am tired of seeing old players or useless players like Nunez and Tatis, getting called up instead of a kid. It makes no freakin sense.
there’s plenty of examples of the same thing in the bronx (pavano, big unit, probably farnsworth, abreu to an extent). it’s just that it never takes over the whole team, b/c the team leaders don’t let it. we don’t have someone who can cut it off.
The Yankees are perceived as being the ultimate big-money free agent signing team, and to an extent they are. But, with the arguable exception of the late 70s, they have only succeeded when their home-grown talent has carried them. The Mets have problems which are too numerous to list. But a huge one is the talent vacuum in the minor leagues. I don’t think you can build a team primarily thru free agency. It’s real expensive, you lose your draft choices and the players get old real fast.
Well, wonderful, the players are sick of all of that? Awesome.
Well, we, as fans, are sick of their uninspired play and lack of guts. So, we both have issues with each other then.
Like I said last week, apathy is the word to describe this fanbase now. And you know what? It is completely justified.
I’m sick of DVR’ing this lazy buch of derelects!
love the user name!
Im sure the collapse definatly plays a factor with many fans and possibly the players/managers. This season is far from over and there is plenty of time to right the ship. With that said i do believe some Personnel changes are in order. Now im not a smart enough man to figure out who exactly need to go except from the obvious, but i just dont see one move or one trade is going to impact the team to a point that they play consistantly. Look what we are witnessing is the dying trend in MLB as teams are now being infused with young talent that has their best days ahead of them and not behind. The mets are a veteran team..a dying trend of the MLB these days. One of the biggest problems the mets have is we dont have the lucury that other teams do of having a good farm system with talent that can come in and do an adequte job. While alot of people want to promote youth and guys like val/chris so on and so forth, they dont stop to think what if they fail? If they are not ready (see nick evans) they only hurt the players morale and the teams morale, not to mention it hurts their trade value (see milledge). I am a mets fan and frankly i have put the collapse behind me as soon as the season began. This team has a look of “woe is me” and while it does bother me, they will work out of it. It just looks like this because all of this is happening at the same time and lets not count out the media’s manipulational spin on this as well. This is baseball…ups and down…execution vs non execution. We have to do the best with what we got this year because come 09 alot of these guys wont be here. Will that be good or bad…gonna have to wait and find out, but i dont think there is just one thing to fix it all with this team and dont expect teams to line up to help us out. Still gotta feel optimistic tho that theres 100+ games left and just like last year..ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. Lets go mets!!
I’ve got to hand it to you, that’s a lot of blind faith in this team. I gave up when Willie was retained the second time.
thats the day I was done.
Ya gotta have the faith bro…If the yanks can come back from 14 back last year and the rockies made it to the WS..dammit anything can happen.
Always look to that monumental collapse when things are bleak.
Why??
why look toward the collapse for motivation? Unless you want to mimic that senario and continue to associate yourself with negativity. I understand if some fans have as matt put it “giving up, emotionally speaking”, but why try to bring down the people that are positive and want something to come out of this season. We are not in september and 9 games out. We should be looking toward other teams who have had much more difficult obstacles to overcome and they overcame them for inspiration that the team which i assume if your posting here that you love will do the same. We are still in this race. Its not september yet.
Ah you misunderstood, i meant the collapse in 2004 of the stanks. When the RS were down 0-3 they stormed back.. gotta keep fighting.
ah ok lol my bad lolllll
i take it back dk im sorry lol
i have talked with a few agents who keep in touch with players, who knows players, i have talked with people connected to the team, people connected to its players, etc., and the sense i get is that there are several people on this team – key players – who are sick of the pressure, sick of the booing, sick of the media, sick of New York, and, if the team is winning it is tolerable, but, if the team is losing, they just can’t take it…
But the money they sure do love.
I guarantee you that this paragraph refers to Beltran, who BEGGED the Yanks to sign him, and to Delgado, who didn’t want to be here in the 1st place. It may also refer to Reyes, who is becoming someone who annoys me very, very much.
THEY’RE sick of the “pressure”? THEY’RE sick of the “booing”?
How dare they?
Maybe WE’RE sick of chokers who don’t give a sh*t and play like dogs.
If you can’t handle it, don’t sign here. If you sign here, STFU and do your goddamn job.
While I believe your ‘black cloud’ image is more valid, at least the image of Peanuts’ character Pig Pen in his ever present rain cloud would have brought me a brief smile.
Pigpen had an ever-present dust/dirt cloud. Maybe you’re thinking of Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh. Now there’s a perfect embodiment of this team.
Eeyore = Heilman
If this organization did what its supposed to do then the players wouldn’t feel as much pressure and negativity from the media and fans. The organization let the players down and its now to the point where these guys want out. Great Job METS.. This thing only gets worse as the days roll on.
Here’s the thing- in 2006 and most of 2007, it was a freakin’ lovefest at Shea. And they STILL couldn’t get the job done.
They actually expect the fans not to boo?
Oh my lord. Get these weak-willed p*ssies out of here and get me some tough guys like they have in Philly please
Oh, slowly but surely, the elevator doors are closing. We are all seeing the inevitable. It was “just” April. It was “just” May. Now it is “just” June. Not so much the time of the season that concerns most Mets fans, it is the overall direction of the team. It is the sense of utter failure and no answers that will solve the problem. Trade Beltran, Heilman, Perez. We will have to suffer through this Castillo deal for the next four years. Alou, Delgado and Chavez will be off of the roster come year end. Pack it up. Start over. You can wait until July as well. Nothing will change.
I want Endy back. The rest (that you mentioned) can go.
Is there still time to sign Ed Whitson?
It is not easy to trade veterans when guys like Kenny Lofton can’t get a job. I don’t imagine Delgado, Castillo, Alou, Chavez, Heilmann, Anderson, Schneider, Schoenweis or Sanchez will return much, if anything, given their salary to talent ratios. And since the Mets give out no-trade clauses in greater numbers than any other team (Beltran, Wagner, Martinez and Santana), the Mets have virtually no flexibility. Win or lose, I suspect this is the team we will be seeing in September.
Which is why, on my blog today, I made the case for Buck Showalter coming in as head of baseball operations, with free rein and full autonomy. He did it for the Yankees, he did it for the D’backs, he’s been Manager of the Year twice in the AL; he’s a winner, hard nosed as they come, generally intolerant of b.s., and I believe is the guy we need to turn this around. The only question is, with the Wilpons have the guts to do something like this?
Rock – f’n – Bottom
One word: Citifield. I think that starting over fresh in a new environment with one sold out game after another will be great for this team. During spring training I laughed off the idea that The Collapse would hang over us. Boy was I wrong. It has cast a shadow over this team since the first day of the season. I do think that Citifield will provide some relief from this nightmare.
You know, it’s sad. During the times when the Mets were a mediocre team over the past 10-15 years, I had so much more faith in them. The words ‘Ya Gotta Believe’ were always on the tip of my tongue. We were down in the 9th in 1997 vs. Mariano? Matt Franco was coming to the plate? Ya Gotta Believe! Ventura was coming up with the bases loaded vs. the Braves? Ya Gotta Believe! I don’t know when it happened, or why it happened, but I just do not believe in this team right now. I simply do not believe that they have it in them to come back. To me, the essence of the Mets is being the underdog and coming back from behind to win. We just don’t do that anymore. The belief is gone and I’m really not sure how to get it back.
“To me, the essence of the Mets is being the underdog and coming back from behind to win”
and i think you hit the nail on the head AMS. We are no longer the underdog. Thanks to omar we have traded that label for becoming the favorites to win, the team expected to win. I believe that is one of the factors that have the fans going nuts after every loss and the media playing their manipulative flute for them to dance too. This season is far from over but 2009 will be something new for us and it could either make or break us. I obviously hope for the best but ever since 06 nobody looked at the mets the same way again..Thats the fact.
Lol sorry bro..gave props to wrong blogger name lol good job amazin mets lol
I have to agree with you Matt. This season was lost last October. Not even the great Johan Santana could salvage it. There were too many memories. The message that ownership send by NOT firing Willie meant that it was OK to choke. It was OK to underachieve. And now we are paying the price. Its too late to try to rectify it, so yes, we need CHANGE…Until that happens, this fan really doesn’t care. I’m frustrated, but I’m just a shell of the fan I was last October. (I passed on 4 field level seats last night because there was no point in watching them lose. They weren’t worth the tolls to me. THE TOLLS!!! I can’t believe thats what it has become.)
Unfortunately, it is too late for ‘09
There’s a ready-made analogy here:
Remember what happened to the NY Giants when they blew that playoff game to SF a few years back?
The next season they brought back Fassel with pretty much the same roster.
Result? 4-12. Fassel resigns (”They need a change”).
Like it or not, players don’t forget, and it doesn’t help when neither they nor the organization have complete confidence in the manager.
Beltran and Delgado would dearly love to be traded to the American League. Don’t know the teams that well but they could be useful to the Angels or the White Sox.
aww poor babies……guess what if you suck, you get booed……how bout this, return the money you;ve made and we the fans, the media, the city as a whole will leave you be….
LET THE REBUILDING COMMENCE!
This team is all about excuses, this person is hurt, the season is young, the media is to critical, the fans are too mean. That is what this team is about making excuses. They need to concentrate on their jobs and start earning their millions. Until this team grows some heart they will never be champions.
Now is the time to trade Delgado. He has raised his average to .245, if scouts are watching thaey see he is starting to hit but cannot really play the field. Perfect candidate for the A.L. (iIs Carp ready?) Also OP will not sign with us next year ( know we shouldn’t give up on him blah blah blah) but he is still valuable and maybe we can get some good prospects. Need to shake some things up.
I agree.
Would you rather trade him? Or would you prefer having him for the whole season, and then lose him during free agency? Do we not receive a compensatory pick in next years draft?
If we could get a good AA player I’d trade him right now. If we could get a bucket of balls I’d be tempted, but I’d probably hold out for a draft pick.
plan on paying $9 a beer? $8 a sandwhich? $200 a pop to show up to a game? Loyal does not equal stupid.
Pregame buddy, pregame. If you are running late a $3.00 beers on the lirr or if you got out on time
$4.00 beers at the White Horse Tavern.
“…there are several people on this team – key players – who are sick of the pressure, sick of the booing, sick of the media, sick of New York…”
Pride is a funny thing when it comes to pro athletes. It gives them the courage to speak their mind and demand respect…
As long as they can remain anonymous when they do it.
ha- too true
Why should WE care?
Its just one game.
We just turn the page.
We’ll get into a nice little rhythm.
The champagne will taste sweeter in September.
Its a long season.
Its a marathon, not a sprint.
Its just a little rough patch.
We were in hiding before these guys got here.
I trust my guys.
You know what though, I am not sure if anyone can manage themselves out of this mess………….but it would be a lot easier if anyone could conjure up the courage to bench Delgado.
So how does the idea of trading of Sexson sound? Just for the sake off having someone new to shake your fist at.
Never mind bad idea. I if you think things can’t get any worse, just take a look at Sexson’s numbers.
No more old people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
just hitting a little scuttlebut.
the gopher ball hurt us a bit.
And they have to fly to the west coast. And sometimes in April and May it was chilly outside.
We’ve become the Yankees – a joyless team to watch, play for, and be.
The win-at-all-costs mentality makes for good sound bytes, but it is draining.
That said, Shea was the place to be in 2006 and most of 2007 – so these guys have only themselves to blame that the atmosphere has turned.
In the end, this team has talent, but talent has to execute…and they don’t execute. they make bad pitches, have terrible at bats, don’t move runners over, or drive them in, give away outs…literally everything that seperates a good team from a bad one, they do not do.
That’s hung over since last fall – if there’s a bad approach to take, they will take it.
Joyless is a word that really resonates. My best friend is a yankee fan, and one day a couple of years ago we were switching back and forth between mets/yanks. after a while, his wife said “the mets just seem so much more fun than the yankees”. And that’s the heart of my love for them…even when they’re crap, they’ve been fun to root for. but now with this sense of underachievement (wholly unfamiliar to most mets fans, I bet)…well, it’s just no fun. I liked having no expectations better.
The idea of unloading Delgado gets better by the day. While we are at it, I would also like a mulligan with the Castillo deal. Trade him away for a middle reliever, eat the contract and sign Orlando Hudson next year! Pretty please!
Alou can stay(on and off the DL) and let Pagan play everyday once he gets back.
I would really like Wagner but he is probably in league with Delgado in wanting out. If they want out, we need to trade them. I have a feeling that Wagner might actually net us the most in a trade.
I most defintely agree that a change is needed.
I don’t agree on the Castillo deal. There are no 2B that are coming up that will not kill the team financially. Hudson wants 5 years+ and 15 a year. I think he is the least of our concerns.
Delgado, now would be a great time to trade him. I am sure there is an AL team that is in the hunt that wants a part time 1B/DH that has the potential to hit for power. What about Boston while Big Popy is hurt?
If we are out of it this season, I for sure would trade Wagner. How about this one, the Cubs need a closer. Why not trade for Murton and Carlos Mármol. I am not sure they do that because Marmol is a stud but the Cubs would be lights out with Wood as a setup man and Wagner as the closer.
Orlando Hudson is not going to get $15M per season, so he is going to have to live with $10M- $13M, my guess is $12M *5yrs. I can take that. Castillo’s OPS is nothing to shout about, and we need the extra OPS since I don’t see any first base solutions surfacing anytime soon. Carp is the only answer on the horizon and who really knows what he can give us.
Here you go: Burrell(trade him after yr two of his contract), Garland, and O Hudson seems like good answers to me. I think we might need another picther in addition to Garland…..who know who that is.
we need wagner for tarp duty
I really don’t think wagner’s one of the unnamed. he’s never given the impression that he doesn’t care, and (as we all know) has been pretty vocal about the responsibility resting on the players to perform. I think he’s handled NY pretty well.
Agreed, get what we can for Delgado, Alou, ask Martinez and Beltran where they want to go, get younger and let them get the experience this season, would rather see young players with hustle lose, than overpaid mid 30’s – 40 yr olds play 500 ball and spend half their time on the DL, hate to see Gomez playing good ball for another team while we struggle to field an outfield…
In case you didn’t hear we got this guy named Santana for Gomez. He’s supposed to be pretty good.
Name the names of the dispirited and alienated players. Then we’ll know who it’s right to boo.
Im glad to hear this. Now it wont be so difficult to trade players with no trade contracts like Wagner and Beltran. They dont want to be here anyway, im sure they will accept a trade to a contender.
Indians could use Wagner, and they seem to have a surplus of talented bats.
Rays could use OP and heilman. Maybe they would trade us Edwin Jackson.
edwin jackson = ollie perez. wagner to the tribe makes a ton of sense, though.
Edwin jackson at least is not eligible for free agency until 2012. We need to start looking at who fills holes 3 and 4 and possibly 5 of:
1 Johan
2 Maine
3
4
5 Pelfrey?
Garland and Freddy Garcia, with Niese in AAA NO as injury insurance.
I have a feeling Beltran isn’t one of those players. He has been pretty standup since his first year. He is also starting to take a leadership role on the team. I would try to keep Beltran. At the very least, he gives you an excellent glove.
Man willie and omar are getting slammed on their respective polls…..
As well they should be.
Fire Willie.
It is my opinion that this team does indeed have the talent to win the NL East. What it does not have is leadership.
Fire Willie
Get a leader on board and get out of the way as he places his boot squarely up some prima donna asses. Quit the psycho babble and excuses, give me a manager that understandws that when you get paid millions of dollars you must perform, not whine and cry little little school girls.
Fire Willie
For all I care make Billy Wagner a player/manager – it is not that hard to manage a freaking baseball team, it is hard to LEAD one.
Unfortunately, I believe Randolph must go now. I still don’t think it is his fault, but there is a toxic cloud over this group now and while it may not fix it, it certainly can’t hurt.
Then Minaya has to be put on notice as well. He made several inexcusable mistakes this offseason.
Berg is dead on when he points out that instead of stockpiling for 2010, Omar will make desperation moves to try and keep his job. Which is something that scares me. A lot.
To quote Robert The Bruce “My hatred dies with you”. Add any of the aforementioned.
One word: Citifield. I think that starting over fresh in a new environment with one sold out game after another will be great for this team. During spring training I laughed off the idea that The Collapse would hang over us. Boy was I wrong. It has cast a shadow over this team since the first day of the season. I do think that Citifield will provide some relief from this nightmare.
You know, it’s sad. During the times when the Mets were a mediocre team over the past 10-15 years, I had so much more faith in them. The words ‘Ya Gotta Believe’ were always on the tip of my tongue. We were down in the 9th in 1997 vs. Mariano? Matt Franco was coming to the plate? Ya Gotta Believe! Ventura was coming up with the bases loaded vs. the Braves? Ya Gotta Believe! I don’t know when it happened, or why it happened, but I just do not believe in this team right now. I simply do not believe that they have it in them to come back. To me, the essence of the Mets is being the underdog and coming back from behind to win. We just don’t do that anymore. The belief is gone and I’m really not sure how to get it back
If You Build It – They Will Lose
ha!
I hear you, but given the team payroll and the many preseason prognostications of this team winning the pennant, this ‘08 team is not an underdog, it’s just a dog.
I’ve been a Mets fan since 1973, but lived in St. Petersburg for a few years during the Devil Rays’ early years, and I can say that the effect on the players there was tangible – when you “know” the team is considered a loser and is always under the spotlight as a loser, and everyone’s writing premature post-mortems, or making jokes, or always asking when the manager’s going to get fired, it really takes its toll. The Rays turned it around when they turned to their farm system and began cultivating players who were young and green and hungry and didn’t care about the team’s previous problems.
It’s time for the Mets to rebuild. Shed the old, broken parts, build around Wright, Reyes, Beltran, and Santana, get (a lot) younger and get a fresh attitude. Don’t you think the fans would respond to that? It’s gotta be better than the ways we’re responding now….
I think a significant enough portion of the fanbase would respond favorably to that, but I don’t get the sense that the current administration has the courage/knowledge/vision to successfully make it happen.
thanks for that blinding flash of the obvious, Didn’t say I hated the trade,
Yeah I’m pretty sick of getting paid millions of dollars to play baseball too. Whiners.
Only another 5 monthes until the Knicks season starts. I figure it will take until the middle it will take approximately 18 games, until their season is over as well, then I can start to look forward to have some semblance of hope of Mets turning it around in ‘09.
for the first time in my life i think im rooting for them to lose
hit rock bottom and start over
OMAR — swallow the pride and sell
Considering that 90% of the team doesn’t speak with the media, and the other 10% are glibly outspoken, I wonder what pressure the team can claim they are feeling. By design or accident, they are either camera hogs (Wright, Wagner) or too shy or angry to speak at all. (pretty much everyone else)
By taking the pressure off themselves by not speaking, they should not be able to claim media expectation as an excuse.
if only this team and these fans realized that some teams like the yanks, a’s, cards and astors looked at the second half of the year as a chance to get to the playoffs not as an insurmountable pressure cooker .
lol forget it dave…that type of logic is wasted on some people here….
Does this team really strike you as a playoff team?
Did the rockies last year…..
Since is the only comment section i can use, I just wanted to say that I voted high for Willie and low for Omar. IMO, Willie, who was AWFUL before memorial day, hasnt made any boneheaded moves since the press conference. There were some questionable at best bullpen moves, but to be honest, I was watching every game, and at the time, I wouldnt have done anything differently. Like last night for example, how was Willie supposed to know Joe Smith and Duaner were going to be taken deep 3 times?
Now Omar, hes made some TERRIBLE roster moves. Church, Casanova, Cancel and Nunez. I know Nunez is gone now, but with 2 hot bats in AAA in Aguila and Pascucci, you have to question those moves. Especially since we got swept by AAA pitching in San Diego.
Strategy is only 1 part of managing. You have to think that Willie is a big cause for the players’ mindset. He is supposed to get these guy to believe that can win every game. Instead of getting different guys to be the hero every game, it seems as if there is always a different guy there to be the goat.
You dont’ get paid milliojns of dollars a year for going through the motions, you get paid for results. Willie is managing what should be an NL East contending team to a sub .500 record.
As an anology – would you pay a salesperson a million dollars a year because he is always talking to customers, even if he didn’t actually make sales.
Willie was a bad hire, Willie is a bad leader, and our beloved Mets are suffering daily because ownership will not act.
Not penalizing Castro for showing up late in San Diego is inexcusable.
he was benched and fined
Omar — there are guys who play baseball that aren’t 35+ and Latino. There are lots of them—really. I promise.
Here’s the deal: if this team is going to play at .500 or below for the rest of the season, then bring the kids up and let them play. If we’re going to be mediocre, or less than mediocre, I’d rather see what the new blood can do. At least a rookie’s mistakes can be blamed on lack of experience, as opposed to passion for the game.
And oh, by the way, I agree with much of the commentary already posted regarding playing in NY. Please, if you can’t take playing in front of some of the most passionate fans in the world, either a) play like professionals and turn those boos into cheers, or b) pack up your dollies and head to Florida, where there will be little pressure, or fans.
Thank god for the Euro Cup.
Can you imagine these guys playing soccer and dealing with hooligans for playing like crap or worse, scoring an own-goal to lose a game?
No, but thanks for the image of Mrs. Beltran as a Spice Girl!
boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Well BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to you to.
People on this blog have no respect for the elderly. Even multi-millionaires have feelings. Boy you just don’t understand what it is like to still play a little boy’s game. Hey bus driver, mine worker, police officer, firefighter you just don’t get it. Hey how would you like it if I went to a fire and boo you while you’re saving a life? You have to pay to see a fire, right? Do they sell $8 beers there?
Time for some changes.
Fire Willie and let Manuel finish the year. Not because I like Manuel but because the candidates midyear are crap. I would rather have this offseason to look for the best candidate.
Fire Hojo, the offense has been terrible since he got here. Especially inconsistant. Maybe a good will call up of someone in the minors will work there for now. The new manager next year should be able to bring in his own guy.
Keep Peterson for now but then I would try and pry Roger Mcdowell or Dave Duncan from their respective teams for next year.
Trade Delgado. There are about 3 AL teams that I think might want him. Boston because Big P is out. Delgado could share time at 1B and DH. Tampa Bay, they are in this thing and have a ton of minor league talent. A bat like Delgado’s would not hurt. Texas, this one I like. They have no 1B really. He can go there and play 1B/DH and likely even sign an incentive contract for there next season. Looking at their minor leauges they don’t have a lot that would be tradeable. They have a good looking 1B in Chris Davis, not likely to get him because he is mashing. They also have a stud catcher in Max Ramirez but again I think that is over Delgado’s head. More likely it would be a couple of single A guys. Like Jose Vallejo a 21 year old 2nd baseman who already has 9 HR and 24 SB. That would be a great pickup.
More on who to trade later, I have to do more research. This is knda fun. By the way new to the site, bad time to join huh?
Now that I think about it, Alou would be a perfect fit for the Drays. He could platoon with Uncle Cliffy.
Dude… I like your ideas. Delgado would be the first to go just like Robbie Alomar. If Beltran wants to leave, he would be the one player in which we can get a lot of haul. Again – by no means am I waving the white flag.
I am not either, there are some of these guys that are dead weight this season. Maybe like one of the guys mentioned we could get Kendry Morales from the Angels for Heilman. Then trading Delgado would not hurt us. As for trading Alou, he is not here enough to help us anyway. Maybe the Cubs would take him for Murtton, kindofa going out party for Alou.
I just think we will miss an opprotunity on a lot of these guys if we don’t unload them. How many of these guys do you want to offer arbitration to just so you can get the picks?
I don’t think Beltran is one of the guys that wants outs. I would keep Beltran. I like the Heilman for Morales idea, but I am not sure what the Angels plan for him. I would take Delgado for good middle relief.
How about Heilman to the Angels? Would they have anyone that would be of interest to us?
Wagner to the Cubs, Indians?
Wagner to the Yankees as set up man?
I don’t see Wagner doing that. Besides they would have to keep him next season. The Cubs do not really have a closer in Wood and the Indians have absolutely no closer or one in the waiting. I would be anxious to see what we could get from Cleveland.
Sorry, Wagner has a full no trade clause, my bad.
I don’t see the Delgado to the Rangers thing because as you pointed out they have Chris Davis.
Heilman to the Angels involving Kendry Morales could be interesting.
As far as the Indians, just no Rafael Betancourt please.
You don’t think at this point that Wagner would not waive his no trade clause and the NY Mets good bye?
As for the Rangers, they are still in the race in the West. I could see them making the move for this year and then letting Delgado DH and play some 1B next season.
Wags may have a full no trade but if he’s sick of playin for this team in this city like Cerrone has elluded to with some of the players, then maybe he would waive it to go to a contender to finish his career.
I’m sure Wags would waive it to be a contender’s closer, I was just agreeing that I didn’t think he would waive it to be a set up man, when I suggested him to the Yanks as set up man I’d forgotten about the no trade.
As far as Delgado to the Rangers, I think they have enough stop gap talent in Shelton/Saltalamacchia/Blalock/etcetera while waiting for Davis that they don’t need to give up any players or money for Delgado for the rest of this year.
What about Perez and the Show? Any good fits for them? I really think we could get some value out of a lot of our guys.
What about St. Louis for Perez? They seem to love relamation projects as much or more than we do. Plus they have a need for starters.
Perez to the Yankee’s makes a ton of sense. Even Baltimore.
Show would also be of interest to the Yankees and just about any other contending AL or NL team.
that was one of your best posts, it was dead on right. These players have some hell of a nerve complaining about playing in New York. Were you complaining in 06 when you were winning games and the fans were cheering for you? You play like this and what do you expect Mets fans to do cheer for you? We want a winning team and most of us live and die with the Mets, and it’s hard for us to stomach a team like this that is heartless, passionless, and just goes through the motions and acts like a loss doesn’t matter to them when it matters to us. Get rid of these seven cry baby players who can’t handle the pressure and the booing, send them to Kansas City and lets see if they like it out there with no pressure or booing from the fans. Bunch of millionare whiners, prima donnas.
For the Omar lovers, i got a replacement GM, Wayne Kirvisky, who is that you may ask. He comes from the Twins organization where they now a little bit about having a good farm system and developing home grown players. Then when he was GM of the Reds, he pulled off two of the better trades in the last 4 years: He stole Brandon Phillips from the Indians and he also got Edison Volquez from the Texas Rangers. Yea, I think he could do a better job than Omar.
Why did he get fired? He was shown the door pretty swiftly wasn’t he?
Talking about “The Collapse” is like beating on a dead horse… when is the media and Matthew Cerrone going to just LET IT GO?!? The more I hear about “The Collapse”, the more it makes me want to buy a Tampa Bay Rays baseball cap…
As for the players, get used to New York City. If you signed with the Mets as a free agent and you don’t like the boos, no one told you to come here in the first place and take the money. If you were traded to the Mets, suck it up and deal with it. Each one of you ballplayers are getting paid for one thing: TO PERFORM AND WIN. Willie Randolph is getting paid to: LEAD AND INSPIRE THE TEAM. Omar Minaya is getting paid to: PUT THE BEST POSSIBLE TEAM TOGETHER. Quite frankly, I wonder how this team would perform under Bobby Valentine, Jim Leyland or Tom Lasorda.
we could let the collapse go if willie would be let go….at the end of the day he is the sorry sad face of that collapse
I have an idea. Next off day ay Shea, let’s get Dr. Phil, the team and 55,000 fans to talk about the grief of 2007.
The we can all hug it out, b!+ches!
yeah i’m pretty sick of making barely enough to pay my bills and watch losses every other night.
beltran does seem to hit the ball hard right at people. can’t he adjust something
I concede.
It’s become painfully apparent that nobody in this organization — from the Wilpons on down to the batboys — actually gives a damn about winning.
CitiField, SNY, the back pages. That’s what they care about.
If they don’t care, why should I? I’ll go to the games for which I already have tickets, I’ll watch on TV — sometimes — just to while away some time. But living & dying with each win & loss? I’m done with that for this year.
And if they somehow surprise us all and actually do turn it around — yeah, riiiiiiight — no one will be more shocked than I, and I’ve been a fan for 41 years.
I’m on board with you can’t complain if you are taking th emoney.
All of these rumors are nice, but name these “key players” Get it all out in the open. Frankly, they don’t have that many key guys, so out the ones that hate it so much, and get rid of them if you have to (and it benefits the team).
Of course, if any of them voluntarily signed contracts to be here, then no sympathy. They can either suck it up and bust their humps (which shockingly, might eliminate the boos!), or retire and forfeit their slaries.
Delgado could have left after 2006, but he did not want to give up big back loaded salary. Castillo just signed for 4 years (I just hate writing that). Beltran followed the Boras dollars. Etc.
Even Reyes and DW, if they were the “unnamed” guys, signed deals, but they were going to be here anyway for that time (maybe they lose 1 year of FA).
So root out the guys that don’t like it, and unload them
Pretty sad that there are guys (and I honestly believe Delgado is one of them) that just want to get paid a lot of money, and would be happy to play in KC with few fans, no expectations, and no sign of the PS ever.
Keep up the moaning, guys. I’m sure you’re being heard, and it will contribute to a change, soon.
There is no doubt in my mind that bringing in a savvy, fiery ass-kicker of a manager ala Wally Backman or Bobby V. would salvage this season.
This team will contend if that happens soon. But with every day day they continue with Willie as the manager, the chances grow dimmer.
Mark my words: if the Mets change managers within the week, they will win 90 games.
nice obama slogan placement matt! ;)
While the Mets have been playing awful and certainly have flaws in their roster, to blame most of this on Minaya is unfair. He did what he needed to do to restore credibility to the Mets when he signed Pedro. We all knew that the contract was for too long and that he would break down before or by this year but that was what it was going to take to sign him and Pedro has been good when healthy.
We also knew that the money for Beltran was too much but in this era of inflated salaries, that was necessary to obtain an impact center fielder.
I was never a big fan of the Delgado trade but at the time we needed a big bat in the middle of the lineup. LoDuca was solid during his time with the Mets. Minaya also turned Benson into Maine and el Duque and while Perez has been inconsistent, he has also been excellent at times.
Wagner was the best closer available at the time and the Mets opened the pocket book to sign him and while he has had his meltdowns, overall he has still been one of the best closers in the league.
Signing Alou and El Duque to relatively reasonable contracts ($ wise) were calculated risks for their prdouction v. their injury risks which generally hasn’t worked but made some sense at the time.
Church and Schneider for Milledge has worked out well so far except for Church’s unfortunate concussions. While Castillo is getting too many years and too much money, A) he was the best option available, B) he could have influenced Santana pushing to come to the Mets and C) he hasn’t been that bad.
Oh, and as for Santana, he has been pretty good, even if he hasn’t been dominant, and Minaya got him without giving up top prospect F-Mart, who most people on this blog were ready and willing to give to the Twins for our ace.
Considering how many on this blog wanted Zito or Dontrelle Willis, those non-moves look pretty good now as well. Minaya also hasn’t overpaid for back of the rotation starters.
Yes, the end result of many of these moves has left the Mets aging and injury prone with little depth in the farm system which now needs to be addressed. The bullpen and bench, which were strengths for the Mets 2 years ago with many of the same players (Chavez, Heilman, Sanchez) is now a weakness and the relievers that Omar has overspent for (Mota, Schoenweis) generally have not gotten the job done. The trades of Lindstrom, Bell, and Ring have also depleted some of their bullpen depth. Oh, and while I don’t entirely blame Willie for the Mets’ woes, he has not shown an ability to motivate and manage this club well and it’s time for a new voice to lead them.
AMEN!! 100% accurate. Bravo for speaking the facts.
I WILL CONTINUE TO SAY THIS UNTIL I AM BLUE IN THE FACE….I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THIS TEAM ISNT GOOD UNTIL I SEE THEM PLAY THIS SAME WAY UNDER DIFFERENT LEADERSHIP….
GUT THE ON FIELD MANAGER AND COACHES AND SEE HOW THEY REACT….YOU HAVE PLENTY OF TIME TO SEE IF IT WORKS….THEN YOU CAN BE SELLERS JULY 31ST…
WILLIE HAS NO RIGHT TO SAY THIS BUT I WILL 99 GAMES LEFT….WILLIE CANT SAY IT BECAUSE IT WAS HIS LACK OF URGENCY THAT KILLED US IN 2007 AND 2006….SO HE SHOULD KEEP HIS F——ING MOUTH SHUT….I ASSURE YOU WHEN HES FIRED HE WILL NEVER EVER GET A MANAGERIAL JOB AGAIN.
GET OBERKFELL UP HERE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS
Yea I don’t think he’ll get another job either. Not as a Manager anyway.
Update:
Willie’s confidence rating is at about 34%
Omar’s confidence rating is at about 43%
This mediocrity really started when Omar took over now that we look back. He chose Willie against his better judgement but towing the company line instead,…he preached about long-term success and building the farm system yet ended up gambling with old broken down players and has yet to develop a deep farm system to help support the rash of old players breaking down (this reason alone should be enough to get him fired),…he is the one whose underlings have usurped the clubhouse heirarchy by dealing with player issues behind the managers back (is that you Bernazard?),…it was Omar whom committed the first sin of this disaster by not allowing a new manager to pick his own coaches, a long held standard in baseball thats helps managers enforce their authority in the clubhouse.
Should Willie be fired? Absolutely, he was a wrong fit from day one. But Omar is the true architect of this disaster, and is making Steve Philips look like a genius more and more each day this goes on and opens his mouth.
Any coincidence that both HoJo and Willie were on the 1992 Worst Team Money Could Buy? I feel like this is a time warp.
You be the judge…
Worst Team Money Can Buy?
1992 (70-92 0.444 W pct) 2008 (30-33 0.476 W pct)
C Todd Hundley Brian Schneider
1B Eddie Murray Carlos Delgado
2B Willie Randolph Luis Castillo
3B Dave Magadan David Wright
SS Dick Schofield Jose Reyes
LF Daryl Boston Moises Alou
CF Howard Johnson Carlos Beltran
RF Bobby Bonilla Ryan Church
SP David Cone Johan Santana
SP Sid Fernandez Ollie Perez
SP Dwight Gooden Pedro Martinez
SP Bret Saberhagen John Maine
SP Pete Schourek Mike Pelfrey
RP Mark Dewey Duaner Sanchez
RP Paul Gibson Scott Schoeneweis
RP Lee Guetterman Aaron Heilman
RP Jeff Innis Joe Smith
CL John Franco Billy Wagner
Let’s face the following: anyone and anybody coming to the Mets right now has to face and be part of COllapse Syndrome/Malaise. It cannot but affect every dude donning a Mets uniform. The crowd, for damn good reasons, is not about to start heaping praise on anyone b/c he’s not Delgado or Chavez or Perez or Pelfrey or Schneider. Roookies will feel this, and so will/would Millar, Nady, etc. None of these guys will make any fast turn around w/o the whole team taking part. That’s the fact.
Two Solutions:
1)Start Winning A-F’in-Lot Now!
2) Look forward to protracted re-building that won’t yield any quick results this season.
Mets Needs A GD Fightclub!!
Efunk are you kidding me, it is fair to blame Omar mostly, he’s the GM. HE PUT THIS OLD AGING ROSTER TOGETHER ,he’s the one that has not fixed the farm system. so we have no depth. Willie is to blame here no doubt, he’s done a bad job but he’s working with players OMAR GOT HIM. Willie deserves to be fired but Omar should be joining him on the umemployment line. I’m not the only one who thinks this, look at the recent poll, more fans blame Omar than Willie.
Beltran mopes around here like he’s being held hostage or someone just shot his dog.
If he hates fans so much, when he was a free agent, why didn’t he sign with his beloved KC or even Houston, where fans loved him? Why would he sign with a NY team? Oh yeah, $120 million.
$120 million, but now the negativity makes him sad. Boo hoo hoo!
If players don’t like it here, good riddance. We’ve had many great players who have loved the atmosphere, and who have not failed miserably like this collection of whiny sullen losers.
In Game 6, numerous Met hitters battled back from 2 out, 2 strikes. What did Beltran do with 2 out, 2 strikes in Game 7? Oh yeah, kept the bat on his shoulder.
I think i have already given up on the 2008 Mets and started looking forward to 2009. as of now, i really don’t care who gets fired or traded, i just want a change, for the teams own good, the players and the fans. Booing is not even worth it anymore. Cheering is not even worth it anymore.
Comments are “off” for the Klapisch link’s entry, so here goes:
Klapisch:
“Indeed, critics of Minaya’s structuring of his team — the oldest in the big leagues — wonder how the Mets could’ve really counted on Pedro Martinez, Moises Alou, Carlos Delgado and Orlando Hernandez in the post-steroids, post-amphetamine usage era.”
Does the Sniper know something we don’t, or is he just taking cheap shots? He doesn’t say…
Blow up this team. Get rid of the whiners. If you can’t deal with the booing then you don’t belong in NY. That means you Beltran. You Delgado. I’m sure that’s who the agents are talking about.
thank you…this is exactly how i feel, we can get some good prospects for Beltran. i still can’t believe he opened his mouth about the “Team To Beat” stuff…why?