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In a recent chat for ESPN.com, during which he discusses all sorts of issues relating to MLB, Keith Law had the following to say about John Maine:
“He threw a two-seamer for a while last year, but I don’t see him using it any more. That was a potential difference-maker in my opinion.”
…it can be rather grueling to watch him pitch lately, because the at bat just goes on and on and on…what’s weird is that, it feels like maine is pitching worse than he did last season, or, at least having less of an impact, but, according to his stats, he is essentially the exact same pitcher as he was one year ago….
Maine is on pace to win 14 games with a 3.87 ERA, while striking out 170 batters in 200 or so innings.
Last season he won 15 games, had a 3.91 ERA and struck out 180 batters in 191 innings.
…thanks to John K for the link…
…added to by Mike Nichols…
…cerrone is right, opponents at-bats versus Maine do seem to go on and on this season versus last season and the stats prove it, but only slightly…
…added to by Joe Janish …
…Since Maine’s arrival to New York, he’s occasionally had an issue with his mechanics where his front side opens too early, and as a result his pitches fly up and away to lefthanded batters (up and in to righties). This has been more pronounced lately, and hopefully Dan Warthen can identify and fix the problem. The flaw affects his command, and that’s part of the reason he’s pitching deeper counts.
Last season, Maine averaged 4.04 pitches per plates appearance and 17.1 pitches per inning, as compared to 4.17 and 18.0 this season, respectively.
Trade Maine for Joey Votto.
K ~
No Deal
Votto + then…
K ~
Homer Bailey + Votto, we’ll throw in Delgado as a bonus…lol i wish…
How about we keep Delgado, and just Maine for Votto and Bailey? I don’t think that trade is that far off the mark if it all….Bailey has been putrid at the Major League level, but the kid has potential…so we’ll take that potential…if the Reds added Maine right now, they could still make a run at the post season with all that offense….Volquez, Harang, Maine, Arroyo, Cueto…that’ll work….
K ~
nah i wouldn’t trade Maine
Sentimentality doesn’t win Championships…and that’s why I’m a fan. To see Championships won…you should re-examine your rooting interest in my opinion…and while you’re at it…your life and your personality.
K ~
umm…you’re sounding like a yankee fan right now. :P i enjoy watching maine, and i’m a fan to enjoy watching my team and its players, not just win championships, because then i would be rooting for the wrong team.
Why would a guy who has been “putrid” but with “potential” win us championships any more than Maine could help?
If you’re the reds why would you do Maine for Votto and Bailey?
umm…What? Wanting to win Championships IS NOT unique to yankay fans. I spit on the yankays, their fans, and everything about them.
You probably go to the stadium and boo, laugh like a hyena, and have a stupid look on your face 24/7. I hate “fans” like you. You’d rather the Mets lose than win so you can giggle, hate, and or pity yourself. You make me sick. You and your type are the biggest detriment to this franchise. Not Omar, not Tony B or Randolph; you. You’re horrible. The Mets are a business, and while you exist, their foolishness will exist. I hate you.
K ~
Votto would have an immediate impact on the team where as Bailey potentially could help down the line…
K ~
If I’m the Reds I need pitching….and have offense…that’s why I’d do Votto and Bailey for Maine…
K ~
Bailey is a pitcher last time I checked and one of the highest rated pitching prospects in the minors. They’re obviously not going to compete this year so why would they trade two young players, both with tremendous upside, for a middle of the rotation starter? It makes absolutely no sense.
Bailey’s name has floated about, and yes, I’m fully aware of the position of Bailey nor was that ever in any doubt. Word on the street is that he’s available. The Reds have an abundance of offense, and dealing Votto and Bailey for Maine actually does make a lot of sense….for both sides.
K ~
John Maine is anything but a middle of the rotation starter. hes a 15 game winner who came up huge in two of the most important games in recent franchise history (game 161 of last season vs the marlins and game 6 of the 2006 NLCS). The kid is young and has a good head on his shoulders. I wouldnt trade him for Votto, Bailey, or Bruce.
Maine will have a just as good if not better career than Volquez.
You ppl are idiots for wanting to trade Maine.
I like Maine, but trading him for Votto and Bailey does make sense.
K ~
Oliver Perez is a 15 game winner too.
I like Maine but he’s a #3 pitcher, a very good #3 pitcher but still a #3. It would make zero sense for a team that’s not in contention anyway to trade two young players with considerable upside, one who grades outt as a #1 pitcher, for a #3 pitcher. They need pitching but they don’t need it right now, they’re not going anywhere right now, they can afford to wait for Bailey.
And really it doesn’t make any sense for us either, we can’t afford to wait for Bailey if we want to compete this year or next and we’re opening a huge hole in a rotation already lacking depth. We’d be going into next year with Johan and Pelfrey locked up and a bunch of question marks.
well we’ll have to agree to disagree then, but I think you’re incredibly wrong….on all accounts, and sound almost a little insane.
K ~
that I agree with.
Shes comparing Bailey a guy who has been up and down in the majors multiple times and shown nothing as a potential #1, however saying maine a 15 game winner and proven big game pitcher as a #3.
Stupid.
And I know Ollie Perez, and Ollie Perez is no john maine!
Trade Mets Fan for someone with intelligent comments
Trade our most consistent pitcher? that is plain stupid or unfunny. not sure which…
How is he our most consistent pitcher? Ever hear of a guy named Johan Santana?
With Pedro’s return, and Pelfrey coming on strong…I don’t think Maine offers that much more than we can get from Vargas…..Vargas might have a higher ERA, but 5-6 innings a start is 5-6 innings….Votto would have an impact in our line-up everyday, and set us for the future at the position….we can pick up a Starter somewhere, but it’s hard getting a good hitting First Baseman…..that can also play the Outfield….
K ~
That seems like opposite of the generally accepted reasoning on the topic. First base is generally easier to fill than SP. Next year, if Pedro doesnt re-sign, we have Pelfrey and Santana locked up. You want to go into the offseason with 2 spots filled in your rotation? Do you want to be forced to overpay oliver perez to be inconsistent because we have no other options? I’d rather keep Maine, and try to overpay Teixiera to come to the Mets…
The yankays are gonna way over spend on Teixeira….and I say let them. We trade Maine for Votto, sign Francisco Rodriguez instead of Teixeira, and be sure to get him. He’ll have to be a set-up guy for a year or maybe Wagner is for a year…maybe they’ll do a Closer by committee with the two…I don’t care…I want F-ROD and with him and Wagner at the end of games forget about it…I’d also sign Juan Cruz….
We re-sign Both Pedro(2/20) and Perez(5/65) and let Heilman Start the year off in the fifth spot….Bailey in reserve…maybe Pavano on a Minor League deal? I’d take Ben Sheets instead of or in addition to Perez though….
K ~
“John has been our most consistent pitcher,” Randolph said. “He’s improving more and more.”
Granted that was over 3 weeks ago. Johan has not been that consistent. I bet they are close on quality starts….
You don’t watch a lot of baseball do you?
K ~
who are you possibly accusing of watching much baseball, you just suggested signing a ghost and a pitcher with more walks than ks to a five year deal
Mets Fan, so you would rather overpay for K-Rod, a pitcher and reliever nontheless, rather than Teixeira, a position player. That makes no sense. If K-Rod was a starting pitcher then maybe I would even consider going after him rather than Teixeira but that is not the case. The Mets have a dire need at first since Delgado has become inept at his position in recent years. His bat is not better either.
I am not even sure K-Rod would be able to handle the pressure in NY. It is one thing to play great in laid back Cali but to get it done in the Big Apple is a whole different matter in itself.
wait, you said to move Heimlich maneuver into the rotation AND to sign Pavano to a minor league deal…
Okay so after you have shelled out 85M for the rights to the ghosts of Christmas past and Christmas Frightening you want to move a former terrible starter who can’t get 3 outs to save his life into the starting rotation.
After all this crazy haggling, you know what would be easier, signing Texiera.
you’re hilarious…and ever so original….
K ~
Guys…it’s a joke…not that we would ever want this trade to happen…right?
wrong. Votto fills a need, and Bailey is a welcomed addition…
K ~
They always find a way on here, don’t they?
The ‘K’ stands for kidding right???
K stands for Kherub.
K ~
Kherub that is you? So you are done floating around your crazy trade proposals on the Mets.com boards and are now passing them around here? You despire Maine then and you still seem to feel the same way now.
I would not trade Maine unless it was a deal that clearly advantaged the Mets. I do not think Joey Votto and Homer Bailey is that deal.
By the way, why not trade Carlos Delgado for Roy Halladay? That is a win-win-win deal for the Mets right?
despised*
lol, I got permanently banned from Mets.com…again….
I don’t see how Maine for Votto+ is crazy….Votto and Bailey for Maine seems about right to me…
Mets are gonna need a First Baseman, and need offense now….the Phillies are only behind the Rangers in runs scored…Votto and Bailey for Maine is a win/win situation for both teams.
K ~
‘I got permanently banned from Mets.com…again….’
Gee, I can’t imagine why…..
Trading Maine is one of the dumber ideas I’ve read on this post in a long time. Do you have any idea how much of a commodity young ML pitchers are? Even one you consider ‘middle of the road’???
I believe it will be far easier to get a decent first base or position player than it will be to replace Maine in the rotation.
Quick vote, Met fans: who would you rather see in the starting rotation? Heilman or Maine?
i think part of the reason it might feel like he pitched better last season is because he did pitch better in the first half (and then again in his last start) but he had a worse second half - which evened out to the stats mentioned above. Meanwhile, this year, instead of being really good for a while and then not so good for a while, he’s mixing up the level of pitching a bit and pitching more at that median level in general.
I certainly hope he is able to take the next step, but if this is who he is, well, things could be a lot worse…
Who did he say his crush was?
Jennifer Aniston.
mmmmmm, who can blame him
lol word. Wasn’t she at the Mets @ Marlins game? he should have ran after her while she was on the field…
Knowing Jon Maine, he was probably scared as hell. I would be.
lol me too, but only if it was Maria Sharapova
I thought he’d improve just a little bit from last year…say, 1/2 a K up and 1/2 a walk down per 9…but it looks like this is who he is. And that ain’t terrible.
Yeah. He stinks :-)
Though he really does have to get his pitch counts down.
he’d be an ace if he could learn a spitball.
Or a splitter, to keep his pitches down.
well im really really curious to see how maine does with the new pitching coach. I always felt like Peterson’s theories about pitching (namely, that keeping the ball down below a certain point is the way to be successful) went against what has made Maine most successful. Meanwhile, Warthen has said that he is a fan of the high fastball which is Maine’s bread-and-butter strikeout pitch, and he’s also interested in getting several of our pitchers to add a couple more pitches (he talked about having Pelfrey bring back the curveball that he was told to ditch in favor of the slider a few years back) That, of course, depends strongly on whether the guys can actually master those pitches, but if Maine can do that- i think Warthen might be a nice change for Maine.
John Maine’s four seamer is his number one pitch but his changeup and slider are not good enough to get hitters out. Maine needs to start throwing that two seam sinker down and in like Pelfrey has been doing recently to get hitters out. Maine just does not throw pitches in enough.
i’m sure john maine and his family are relieved to hear that ‘john maine is john maine’ instead of ‘john maine is omar minaya’ or ‘john maine is jose reyes’. Though I’m sure he wouldn’t mind having his hits.
Did you guys hear the story about john maine catching pelfrey watching video of his hit during the game in which pelfrey was still pitching? And apparently pelfrey explained that he had been walking by and his video happened to be playing
I’m sure his family is relieved to hear that ‘John Maine is John Maine’ insted of ‘Jane Maine.”
He was a much much better pitcher in the first half of last year. 2.71 era pre-all star break last year with a BAA of .214 and WHIP of 1.14.
True, but he was horrible in the second half last year. So, it’s very likely his second half this year will be better than last years, so in the end he should be right on track for the same type of season. He threw a curveball which Peterson scrapped. Maybe if he started using again just for show it could make a difference. Someone should suggest that to Warthen.
I heard on the game last night that Warthen was going to let Pelfrey mix his curve ball back in… if this is the case, he may be thinking the same for Maine already.
I don’t know why that makes it “very likely” he’ll have a good second half.
I wonder what inning he pitched into on average last year compared to this. It has to be a full inning less this year
since I’m way too lazy to look at each start, just did regular division: he pitched 5.99 innings per start last year, and 5.81 per start this year. It’s really only a difference of an out here or there.
This guy is a great #3 guy to have in the rotation, but without an “out pitch” I don’t think the Mets can count on him at the top of the rotation. They have to be able to replace Pedro next season going into the new stadium. I’m guessing this will be Burnett (though with his comments about the Cubs recently I’m a little scared). We all know Sabathia is going to be a free agent and unless I’m mistaken Ben Sheets (who is probably the best of all 3 of these guys when he’s healthy) will be available as well.
Too early to get the sauce going on the Hot Stove?
Agreed. We have #1, 3, and 4 (I’ll be generous to Pelf) locked up, but with a depleted farm I’m slightly worried about next season. Omar better be working some back room magic.
I’d say we should go after Dempster
Ben Sheets is a pitchers’ version of Moises Alou, hurt, hurt and then hurt again. Avoid this guy like the plague
IMO: Maine is still developing as a starter. His numbers did not look that good in the second half last year probably because it was the first time he ever started more than 15 games.
I think he will have better numbers this year in the second half.
If he can add or perfect one more pitch then he is a legitimate #2. He just needs that pitch that either induces the K or the ground out.
That ground ball pitch might be the 2-seamer that Keith Law says he’s ditched.
Does anyone remember Maine admitting after the end of last season he injured his hip (I believe) in spring training last year and it just got worse as the year went on - and pretty much pitched thru pain especially after the All Star break? I wonder if that had anything to do with his stats being better before the break????
I hate to state the obvious, but if the mets want to win the division, they need the John Maine of the 1st half of last year for the remainder of this year and a more consistent Oliver Perez. I think a lot of their other questions marks are starting to become negative answers. Forget El Duque, forget expecting much from Alou, forget the Heilman of old, forget getting Delgado numbers from his prime. The way for the team to be consistent is for the rotation to be consistent and the Mets just need a bit better production out of Maine, especially in innings pitched. It’s not far from July. I think the Mets need to establish themselves as consistent and be ready to play that series in Philly over the 4th of July weekend. Unfortunately, that series can bury the Mets.
True, that series could bury the Mets. On the flip-side, it could be a swift kick in the ‘nads to the Phillies.
John Maine is a #3 starter period. he is and always has been a middle of the rotation starter. Without cutting down his walks and finding a true out-pitch, he will never be any better than he is now. Lots of fans on here hype up players way too much and then they want to trade guys away when they dont reach our expectations. stop the insanity
whoah we have El Duque on the team? since when? :o
I think Maine should develop a splitter. I think that’d help him put hitters away.
I’m outraged by these comments. John Maine is a number 3 starter????
Are you insane. He is a high-end #2 starter. And he is one of the best personalities on the team. Remember when he wasnt worried about his next contract or arbitration, that he just wanted to pitch. Man, was that refreshing.
Maine won 15 games last year with a sub 4 ERA. Not to mention in his career he pitched a near perfect game in the 2nd to last game of the season last year. A MUST WIN GAME.
Also, he pitched 6 innings of 1or 0 run baseball in the 2006 NLCS, A MUST WIN GAME.
The guy is young, has great stuff, is not a headcase, and should be locked up for the next 6 years. He is as important to this team as Wright or Reyes.
yes locking up pitchers when you do not need to, to six year deals is genius
I have to side with Patrick here. Pitchers don’t get six year deals unless they have a Cy Young or two in their back pocket.
Yes thats why you do it now genius. so you dont have to pay him market value for a 15 game winner.
Give him a deal like Reyes got. Buy him out of his arbitration years and lock him up for this first couple years he is eligible for free agency at a lot less than what he would get as a free agent.
Man you ppl are dumb.
He won’t be a free agent until 2012. We’ve got 3.5 more years before we have to even think about paying him market value. Who knows what his market value will even be then. And if he continue to need to throw as many pitches as he does now an inning who knows what kind of shape his arm will be in.
no Gina, you are Crazy pay him more in 2009, 2010 and 2011 then necessary, and before you have any idea what he is worth or if he will hold up, tack three more years onto that.
see what you do is, when a guy had a good half season and one good post season 6 inning performance is sign him to a six year deal while he is struggling to pitch 5.1 innings a night, because you buy out his three arbitration years and get the bonus of the remaining three years
because ya know, it might not be like Jason Isringhausen circa 1995
I’d liek to thank Janish for the mechanical insight. We get far too little of that kind of substantive info, generally (not picking on Metsblog, which is supposed to be a fan blog.)
it would be great if the that subtance had any reality behind it, the depth of counts is more a reaction to Maines failure to put hitters he routinely has at 0-2 and 1-2 away, and his up and in and away is exactly where the new pitching coach is going to have him go, Peterson’s obsession was keeping the ball at our below the knees, Warthen preaches changing the sight line of the batter, Maine and every other Met if any team was scouting was hopelessly predictable in their approach
If he’s pitching balls up and out of the zone, he’s going to have trouble putting guys away that he has 0-2 and 1-2.
actually, that is how you get guys when you have them 1-2 and 0-2, change their eye level and chase, if you continue to throw for knees side to side, guess what the hitters do, they adjust and the scouts say…
Hey Maine throws everything down away and down in once he has two strikes, and a hitter can tee off and foul away pitch after pitch after pitch until one gets fat and the plate
I think it seems Maine isn’t doing as well because of the fact that with his very good season last year and his fantastic spring training, he looked like a potential 20 game winner. I’m not concerned though, the guy is pretty solid. I put him behind Santana in my order of confidence.
Maine is doing fine. Hes had a couple of hickups in his last two starts. But like at his starts after the first start of the year.
He will win 15 games and not drive fans crazy.
My fav pitcher on the team.
I think John Maine is on the cusp of figuring it all out and, when he does, he’ll be a star pitcher for years to come. What’s surprising to me is that I thought, given the excellent spring training he had this year, that he had figured it out. His walks were way down and his confidence way up. And the results were excellent. Then the regular season started and he seemed to revert to last years form.
One thing that strikes me different about Maine this year is that he seems to have more zip on his fastball. He’s thrown is in the 95-97 mph range a number of times this year. I couldn’t remember him doing that before that much, if at all.
He’s one guy I give Omar a lot of credit for getting in the Anna Benson trade with the Orioles.