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Prior to yesterday’s game, Jerry Manuel explained to reporters why he, from an out-of-town perspective, believes the Mets are a second-class citizen to the Yankees, saying:
We’re kind of like the second team…The Yankees have won 26, 27 championships. They’ve been here longer, I would think…That’s just the way it is. That’s just my opinion now. I don’t speak for everybody else. That’s my opinion. And being a baseball person all these years, from the outside, I’ve seen it that way. In Chicago, if you asked me, ‘What was the favorite team in New York?’ I would have to
say, ‘The Yankees.’ I don’t have a problem with that. I love playing them…Shoot, use that as motivation. If you want to be first, win. Win some world championships. Don’t be first just by popularity, or who wears what jersey. Win some championships and you can claim first. I don’t have a problem with that.”
…it’s sad, but true…i’m not happy about it, but he’s right…also, he’s right that if the Mets truly want to take the town back, they need to win…because, i think it’s quite clear that part of New York is a front-running town when it comes to baseball…
…i say that, because, to me, the two fanbases are probably split fairly even…it’s the middle ground, the undecided, fair-weather, front-runner fan who likely sways towards the championships and the cache of cheering for the favorite…and so, the team who is winning is the team with more ‘fans’…that happens to have been the Yankees over the last decade…for much of the 1980s, it was the Mets…and so on…and that’s all totally understable…
According to a poll by Quinnipiac University from last summer, which you can check out here, 52 percent of New York City baseball fans said they would back the Yankees over the Mets in a Subway Series, while only 44 percent said the Mets.
I don’t want to make a big deal about this but, why the hell would Manual say anything like this? Last I checked, he worked for the mets. His comments may be true, but come on, your a met.
I agree. I guess this guy is throwing out as many controversial and eybrow raising comments as he can to see what sticks.
In his two weeks as manager, he’s already been more interesting and colorful than Willie ever was. Not that it matters because if he doesn’t win, he’ll be just a footnote in NYM manager history too.
What was he supposed to say?
How about nothing.
ah very williesque
Well, I think that if Willie said this, every fan would go nutz.
Well, back in the good old days (mid 80’s – 1990ish), the Mets owned NY. And it wasn’t even close.
Sure, you had the hard core Yankee fans (the ones that went back to the early 60s), and some Reggie era front runners that stayed around, but NY was a Mets town in those days.
It didn’t really change back until the reign of terror started in 1995/1996.
Yeah, it wasn’t even close. I remember a poll in the Daily News back in ‘87 or ‘88, and something like 2/3 or 3/4 of baseball fans in the city were Mets fans. I also think the Mets had an advantage earlier on because a lot of the Giants and Dodgers fans switched to the Mets, so even in the early days of the franchise NYC was more of a Mets town. The combination of those fans dying off and the Yankees rising to prominence changed the balance of power of course.
If I recall, the Mets outdrew the Yankees in 1962, a year they won the World Series.
the Yankees have traditionally been second (or third) class citizens, and they’re only pretenders now.
I hate to be the hater here, but:
Mets attendance 1962: 11,532 per game
Yanks attendance 1962: 18,439 per game
Guess I don’t recall.
Hell, Yeah!
NY WAS a Mets town!
What JM says actually bears this out: when the Mets win, you know they will own NY again.
The more I hear from Manuel, the more I like.
LGM
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The reason is the Yankees always seem to have the intangibles, which are guys who come through in the clutch. The Mets (unfortunately) seem to have too many excuses.
Truth be told, I would rather focus now on the NL. The month of July has us playing 26 games against good NL teams. If the Mets can play .650 ball for a while then I think we are in the hunt. The total record would then be around .530 and we would be going into an August schedule that is much easier. July is going to be critical.
It is time to get serious and start winning every series and quit playing .500 baseball. Otherwise we need to start looking at 2009.
Manuel is correct, anyone who thinks differently is hopelessly dreaming, and if the Mets want the town, win.
Anyone who was in this town during the mid-to-late ’80s know how this type of thing fluctuates. The Mets OWNED this town back then, and they will again. NY was a National League town even when Ruth/Dimaggio/Mantle played, and it still is. It only needs a quality team to root for.
With the Yanks old and on the cusp of mediocrity, the door’s open for the Mets. Let’s hope they take advantage soon.
One thing that struck me this weekend: the Yankees are really a boring team to watch. Yeah, their offense is great, but man do their games plod along. Every single guy on the Yankees seems to take a stroll after every pitch. It’s painful to watch a Derek Jeter at bat. I absolutely love the game of baseball, but even I was reaching for my remote in some of those innings. Suddenly I felt like Homer Simpson in that episode where he gives up alcohol.
“I never realized how boring this game is!”
I think it’s the wording more than anything else. If he had said the Mets are the NY team with more to prove, it probably would have sounded better. I don’t think referring to them as the second team should be coming from the manager to the press. If you want to motivate your team with those words, better to do it in private.
Why does Manuel talk so much?? We know the deal here in NY and know there are front running yankee fans out there. We don’t need to be reminded about where we stand by our own manager. I think he’s getting too comfortable trying to be the anti-Willie. Worry about winning first. Winning cures all so let’s do that and go out there without talking smack.. Let’s do it professionally and quietly!! Enough with the rhetoric already. JUST WIN BABY!!!
because talk is all he’s got.
And he knows he isn’t, and Willie wasn’t the problem, so he’s saying stuff, pretty much doing the same thing with the team, and hoping his ‘different attitude’ earns him a job if the team turns it around despite him.
I don’t neccesarily disagree with you, but Randolph always got killed for his post game “non-remarks”.
It seems like we (as represented by the media) want it both ways – we want a guy who speaks his mind and tries to honestly answer questions, doesn’t just throw cliches out there after every win/loss, then they get skewered at every turn (gangsta, fertilizer, now this).
How long before the media gets what it deserves and Manuel starts talking without saying anything like Randolph?
Well, you know where Randolph got that from..the team the media loves, guys like Derek Jeter and the Yankees.
Double standard much?
The media is irrelevant. The only reason they ‘want’ actual content is so they have an easier job. If you win and say nothing, they won’t be able to kill you, if you don’t win and say nothing, that’s all they’ll write about.
it’s not like he’s saying that people in new york didn’t already know. the players know it too. you’re reminded on a consistent basis about the 26 championships and their endless current streak of playoff appearances. we haven’t won in twenty-two years. the yankees haven’t won in eight years but that was the end of a dynasty.
what jerry is completely correct. he’s talking reality and if the mets and their fans want to stop hearing about it then you know what has to happen. that’s it. no more excuses. that’s from the top on down. if a player is underperforming, trade him or release and eat the money. the yankees have no problem doing that, for some reason, the wilpons are reticent. pay above slot for draftees, why don’t we? treat the mets as a sacred franchise, a credit to the game instead of a frachise just off its training wheels.
wow met fans complaining that their team isnt second important in ny on a monday? didnt see that coming …sarcasm.
i dont see how this is controversial at all. its the frank truth. people here are always bitching about spin and now you get the truth and its controversial.
win. thats it. win.
I do like the picture Matt used. A chess board. The only thing more boring than watching the Yankees play “21st century” baseball.
How about a slice of Humble Pie?
ha
I really have no problem with his comments. I think he was also putting his team in the underdog role, which they seem to handle better. Randolph never said anything at these pressers, now I know why. Every statement is relentlessly analyzed in this town.
And as far as that poll, 52% – 44% is a heck of alot closer than I would have guessed considering how the skankee ranks have grown over the last decade. Every soccer mom has a yank decal on their minivan now it seems, and I have a fellow from Chi in my neighborhood, and another that recently relocated from Pitt (6-7 years ago) and they both wear skankee hats now. Pathetic. I would have expected 60% – 65% yank supporters.
I agree. It seems since the 8 year drought the yankees have with winning a WS(and payroll increases) the people of ny are almost split 50/50 between the yanks and mets. The yankess have been here since like the birth of baseball so they have several years over the mets. Idk i think at this time with either team not really doing much, any team can take over ny at this time. The yankee chokehold on the city is over for the moment imo.
Well the Yankees haven’t been here since the ‘birth of baseball’. Them silly Orioles didn’t start until 1901 and then sucked majorly for 20 years.
The ‘town’ was ripe for the picking when the Mets blew the opportunity to have a second season in a row when they’d be playing baseball while Jeter was repeatedly stepping away from his golf shot, hoping to psych out the hole.
But go further in the Playoffs this year again and it’ll be a huge momentum swing. (Which is one of the reason I don’t/didn’t want a Subway Series)
I’ve got one thing to say…YANKEES SUCK!!! and I mean that from the bottom of my heart!!!!
Didn’t Quinnipiac polling suggest that registered voters backed Kerry and Gore? We know how those turned out, so New Yorkers backing the Yankees in a Subway Series should mean a Met win.
I don’t think saying it’s a second team is a slur. It’s why I became a fan, in fact. As a formerly equal-opportunity New-York-sports-team hater. Or, I should say, New-York-sports-team fan hater. (I’m not a native NYer, obviously.) God, the provincial “we’re the greatest!” idiocy of NY fans used to be one of my biggest entertainments. I miss those days, talking trash to Knicks fans when they thought (delusionally) that they had a hope in hell.
Anyway, my point is, popularity among typical NY fans is nothing to covet. My mets love caught me entirely unawares, snuck up on me because stupid fans didn’t have me on my guard. ;)
I believe the White Sox take a similar outsider pride in their status.
The papers made way too big a deal of this today.
Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for US Steel, Microsoft, the Republicans, Exxon-Mobil, WalMart and the banking industry.
Spot on. It’s rooting for the machine.
As opposed to rooting for the Mets who also have a billionaire owner, a new stadium, a cable network and boatloads of profit?
What is it you would like to see? I mean that seriously. Give us something besides criticism. The mets are a little ahead of the curve is all, but all teams will soon have stations, and all owners will be billionaires.
I don’t want you to strain yourself. It’s certainly easier to be “negativefan”. Like that poor sod in the Red Sox movie (2003?), who clung to his pessimism to prevent the psychological work that dealing with reality can involve.
I remember reading Giambi saying something similar a year or two before he signed with the Yankees and then at his press conference saying it’s every boy’s dream to wear Yankees pinstripes.
Joebaby,
I generally want US corporations to do well and make money for their investors, create jobs, produce new and useful products and services for consumers, and help the economy. Also, I generally vote Republican.
Yet, I loathe the Yankees and love the Mets.
Personally, I see rooting for the Skanks like rooting for the government – large, impersonal, powerful, merciless, and all too present in our lives.
Plus, ….there’s the DH abomination. ;-)
Mets are arguably the 3rd team in this city. I see more overall passion and interest for Boston Red Sox here than for the Mets.
And why shouldn’t there be? The Sox are relevant, the Mets are chokers.
Yeah. There are definitely no redsox bandwagon fans of of late. Every boston fan I have ever met has been a diehard fan who knows everything about their sport. I look up to Boston…
(please read as sarcastic)
It seems that Mets fans take the rivalry more serious than Yankees fans. I think it’s the people that became fans from both teams in the 90’s that have fueled the rivalry. I remember growing up in the 80’s and although the Mets were more popular among the casual fans, I don’t remember either fanbase caring much about how the other did given the lack of interleague play.
The idea that Manuel espoused about a team earning bragging rights by winning is best illustrated by the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry. Even though you’ll still see the Yanks fans with their t-shirts saying stuff like “Do The Math”, they know that Boston has earned the right to brag this decade. I’m still waiting for the Mets to win a series or two while the Yankees go fruitless for another decade or so.
A man’s t-shirt spotted in the Forest Hills post office some years ago say it all for me:
I Love NY
But I hate the Yankees!
Queens, Baby!
The Home of the Mets, Jets and Two Million Beautiful People!
(Ok, so the jets moved on)
So did most of the beautiful people I hear.
yeah they all moved to brooklyn.
represent!
HaHa. I was thinking more of Italy…
gotta love those italian women.
Brooklyn-born, I’ve been a Mets fan since 1969. There is no question in my mind, outside of the Bronx, NYC has always been a National League town, with the suburbs split – southwestern CT, NJ and Westchester for the Yanks, and Long Island for the Mets.
While I do agree with Manuel and Matt that winning would change the perception of the Mets, the bottom line regarding building a resilient fan base is that it’s not only winning, it’s how you win and who is doing it.
What’s often overlooked in the negative fan response to the Mets since the collapse is that other than Wright, they are not a very likable team. If you don’t like the team, why give them the benefit of doubt and root for them?
In my opinion, the Wilpons and Minaya made a big mistake in taking a page from Steinbrenner and the Yanks in their attempt to take a shortcut to optimize the profitability of the pending launch of CitiField with a free agent spending spree.
What was needed, and wanted, was some homegrown players that reflect well on the team and the city. Just ask the Yanks about Jeter and his value to the franchise.
Well that is all well and good, but the homegrown players sacrificied in what amounted to a division title and within a hair of a National League championship have amounted to nothing special.
Sorry I do not buy the code word on how you win and who is doing it.
I also do not buy that they are not very likeable other than Wright.
What makes Wright any less part of the collapse other than the color of his skin?
Since my intent has been apparently misunderstood, I’ll clarify my post for you.
First and foremost, you need to recognize that it is not a question of the homegrown players who have been traded, but rather a question of the overall approach to building a franchise and how get the best ROI. Over the past five years, who other than the Mets has made a bigger splash signing free agents to big (money and term) contracts? Have you not considered the picks that have been lost? Have you not considered how that money could have been spent improving the ability of the Mets to scout and sign players?
Second, there is no code, only the fact that the fan base, in spite of a large number of Latino fans, have not embraced Beltran, Castillo, Delgado and Santana. All better than average players, they do not openly exhibit the same love for the game as Pedro Martinez, Jose Reyes and David Wright.
Unfortunately, Pedro has been injured for far too much time as a Met, and while Reyes has a winning personality, a significant number of fans question his commitment to the game and his team.
Lastly, I’m not sure what gave you the impression that I was excluding Wright from his responsibility for the collapse. He shares it equally with the other members of the team.
Well…David actually PRODUCED in September, unlike just about everybody else.
Other than that, cgpublic’s commenst are well-taken.
That said, I certainly loved the 86 team, and that was full of hired and traded for guns, many of whom were hardly reflecting well on the city or were David Wright / Derek Jeter types of men at that point in their lives.
I think the Mets have more actual fans in the New York area. The Yankees total is bloated from bandwagon jumpers and frontrunners. But, either way, I could care less as long as the Mets win.
“They’ve been here longer, I would think”
Hmmm, Jerry’s not exactly a student of baseball history, huh? He just “thinks” the Skanks were around longer than our 1962 expansion team?
LOL I like jerry, but that one made me laugh.
I understand Jerry but we have wright, reyes, and santana. The mets are the future for NYC. A tip for Jerry Manuel and the Mets watch the Tampa Bay Rays. A low salary team and they are playing hard. The month of July will show if this team is good or bad. If the month goes even more south i would think to try and trade Delgado, Perez, Heilman, and Alou to get some young prospects. Delgado is a lost cause, Perez is only good against the yankees which he could face twice, Heilman would be a good trade chip to get young prospects, and Alou well lets try to get something out of Alou and his wasted time here. Hey, you never know the mets could finally make a good trade instead of bad. Then the mets can make a run for World Series titles and become the real New York team.