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In an ‘exclusive’ report for the New York Post, Bart Hubbuch details a recent ‘confrontation’ between Keith Hernandez and Jose Reyes while in St. Louis.
According to Hubbuch, citing ‘one player,’ Reyes and Hernandez were close to exchanging punches on the team charter until others stepped in.
…well, you know what, i’m proud of keith for speaking his mind on air, and i’m glad to see reyes sticking up for himself…
…they had a heated argument, or ‘confrontation,’ or whatever they want to call it, they did not come to blows, and so they argued it out like men and now let’s move on…
…i understand this is a sensationalistic, exciting story for people to talk about in print, on blogs and on radio, but, the fact is, this isn’t a tea party…none of these people are required to be friends…they’re only requirement is to do their job, be it on air or on the field…so, it’s hard for me to 
really care about this topic…
…i mean, two jocks got in to an argument because one called the other a name…wow…imagine that…what a shocker…
…that said, i am so sick and tired of wasting time writing about who should be fired, who shouldn’t, front-office deception, fights between players and broadcasters, possible clubhouse division, eighth-inning sing-a-longs, home run apples, and every other off-field soap opera that has been forced upon me through the text-media this season…it’s ridiculous…
In case you are interested, there is a real-live baseball game being played tonight in Philadelphia between the third-place Mets and the first-place Phillies at 7:05 pm.
…you remember baseball, right, it’s the game with the white ball, the bats and gloves…i hear it’s a whole lot of fun…
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What? is this real? Reyes fighting Keith? :o i find this hard to believe
We should expect this sort of non-story, negative reporting for the rest of the season by the NY Media. It’s their revenge for having to wake up at 3am to find out the details on the Willie firing.
haha, well i just read the story at MLB.com and it’s no big deal at all -_-
I agree with you Matt, who cares…
86 Mets had plenty of fighting (in and outside the clubhouse) and it didn’t stop them from winning the WS.
Well, I’ve taken my vaccinations, and now I’m off to Philly. Let’s Go Mets!
First, Matt, you need to specify the correct Reyes in your titles!
also, it is a good sign for 2 reasons. 1 is that Keith is doing his job, calling out the flaws on the team (as he perceives them).
2nd, and more important, Reyes cares about it. Of course, unless he looks in the mirror to see if Keith might have a valid point (and then do something to correct it) it might not matter.
It seems to be that yes Reyes cares..and while he might be a little stubborn about it, he’ll realize what needs to be done if someone suggests something he can do differently, and he was upset and was aware of the problem so..
Although, if someone on the Mets suggested something to you, if they’d previously given you such A+ advice like changing how you run, I’d take it with a grain of salt too.
what do you mean needs to be done? the guy plays hard. he makes mistakes because he isnt the sharpest pencil in the box, but when a guy shows he cares not messing up, and this is a problem now?
leave him alone. keith was doing his job, reyes was doing his. i think both of them treated this the way you are supposed to treat it. nuff said.
and if you havent noticed, reyes is having a monster season.
matt, its your job. if youre so sick and tired of it, why dont you give up the reigns to any of the hundreds of willing readers of this site. you are the one being the baby. were not on the website to read about what you like and dislike, we read this site to get information about the mets and talk about the team. the picture on the side isnt you, is it?
well in all fairness, this is a blog. a blog that initially served as a means for a mets fan to speak his mind about the team. however, it blossomed into something more than that because we the readers came back day in and day out to see what matt had to say about the mets and offer our own opinions, whether in agreement or not to the topic at hand. thats the whole intention of the site and the whole purpose of the comments section. whether or not you agree with matt doesn’t mean he has to stop offering his opinion, which he is entitled to, as are you.
There’s no reason for Reyes to stick up for himself. Hernandez is doing his job. Players play, announcers announce, end of discussion. Maybe Reyes should worry less about what an announcer says about him, and see if he can make the necessary improvements to become something other than the fourth best SS in the division and the third best SS in New York.
Don’t be an idiot. He’s the best SS in New York. Especially as it’s obvious you’re talking about right now, and this year.
I’d take Reyes over any other SS in the division too. Rollins? Okay, but he’s not super-anything. He still owes the Mets a check for his MVP. Hanley’s good, but he’s pretty much just as whiny. And I assume you’re talking about Escobar who doesn’t exactly have a track record. either way, it’s July and ‘best SS’ is stuff for November. Like Matt said..baseball watch it. Why are there so many of you more concerned about Willie/Reyes’ attitude/Castillos 2010 than this year and this game?
That said, I’d watch a Celebrity Deathmatch between Keith and Reyes…
Go ask an adult to explain the concept of “end of discussion” to you. It means I stated the facts, and there’s nothing for you to add to them.
Um he added to the other part of your conversation boss..
players play, announcers announce, bloggers blog……..
Facts? Get real.
AlreadyMissShea,
I read this blog alot and for the most part I like your comments and they are insightful etc.
But lately you need to high horse man, who do you think you are? I can’t stand your sense of entitlement anymore because its really starting to piss me off.
Just tone it down please, thank you.
MissShea:
Your idea about what constitutes “the facts” is biased toward your own ideas of how the world should work, & are phrased as if you were Dick Cheney. Are you? It would explain why you apparently haven’t watched JR play since April.
Yeah, I’d rather have Escobar and his 18 extra base hits as opposed to Reyes and his 37.
Escobar isn’t even in the same league.
As for Rollins and Ramirez; even if Reyes isn’t better than them, which is definitely arguable, you’re talking about the 3 best shortstops in baseball and fourth place isn’t even that close.
Rollins: .276/.342/.452, 104 OPS+, 6 HR, 4 3B, 19 SB, 29 RBI, 37 Runs
Reyes: .295/.355/.484, 123 OPS+, 9 HR, 10 3B, 28 SB, 37 RBI, 62 Runs
Not even debatable which of them is better.
and hanley is a third basemen who just happens to play shortstop for a club that didnt have a ss. he’ll find his way to a club thats as illegitimate as the marlins soon to nurse his ego and try and be the savior somewhere else, much like what arod did with texas, and he’ll play third with that club, wherever it might be, maybe baltimore or san diego. the stadium move for the marlins will be as effective as joan rivers latest face lift, and hanley will be forgotten. reyes is the best ss in the national league because of raw talent and because he produces in NEW YORK CITY.
Get Hanley to play 3B, & switch Wright to 1st so he doesn’t have to throw too much & you’ve got an all-star infield, almost (2B missing).
I don’t necessarily think this is a bad thing. Although I would much rather see Reyes in a Donnie Brook kicking the “Carp” out of Utley but I’ll take it. Keith speaks his mind and that is why we love Keith. Reyes showing some fight is far from a bad sign. Maybe he should be a bit more careful where he chooses to throw down. Hope they weren’t sitting near an emergency exit.
Love your soda, but it’s “donnybrook.”
Yeah, because a Mets player challenging a broadcaster to a fight isn’t newsworthy at all, and has no relation to the actual game on the field.
Just like how the front office is or isn’t operating effectively doesn’t impact the play on the field either.
Sure.
I like it. Like the poster above said, the 86′ team seem to always be in one fight or another, that’s what made them so hated by opposing teams and fans but that was their “edge”. Nothing wrong with showing a little emotion and “:Fire”. I mean, make up your mind. This team has been blamed all year for showing little emotion and no fire. As far as Keith criticising Reyes, why not? It’s refreshing to see a team announcer (color analyst) actually point out what he perceives to be wrong with the team he covers and actually call a spade a spade. Unlike the other clowns cross town with their Pom-Poms and Rah, Rah Rah.
Amen….the SNY booth calls it down the middle most of the time – and that is a refreshing change from the hacks and homers in other booths.
i think you’re off base on this one matt. this isn’t rick astley or the apple being replaced, its a legit story and i’m interested in it. i gotta give the edge to keith in this one, reyes may be wiry and quick but keith has the size and experience. 3rd round KO by Mex
1) Reyes would destroy him.
2) I care about it I guess, but only a little bit. What angers me most is the negativity handed to Reyes on a daily basis. It’s gotten to a point where I can’t really listen to the radio or read anything Reyes-related. All of his “blow-ups” are blown up to such an extent that they make him look much worse than he actually is. Because of that, people are missing the fact that he is having an outstanding offensive season. Did we think Reyes was one of the absolute best players in baseball in 2006? Yeah, we did. And now when he is mirroring that season offensively, the guy cannot catch a break. Why, because he had a bad second half last year and people still can’t get over it? No one who has ever watched him play prior this season cares about his defense – it’s outstanding, and he’ll get sure-handed again. But, he’s doing a great job with the bat, and yet we hear idiots like Steve Philips say that the #1 key to the Mets getting going is Reyes getting going, etc etc. Reyes is playing at an all-star level right now for his skill sets, and because the media/casual fan doesn’t realize this, he’s unlikely to gain their acceptance this season because he can’t really play that much better.
OK, I don’t know where that rant came from, but I’m just tired of all of the Reyes hate.
I agree, leave the guy alone. Reyes is the least of the problems with this team. There was a stat refferenced a few games back comparing Reyes STRICTLY going by the NUMBERS as far as Batting average, doubles, triples, OBP, Steels, Homers & RBI’s and his numbers are right up there with Honus Wagner! Tthat’s HONUS WAGNER, consider the Greatest SS in the annals of the game. I don’t have the actual stats but it was analized on SNY. Google = Honus Wagner for those of you who might be too young to recognize that name. Enough with over-analizing every little thing Reyes does, leave the Guy alone and in another 10 years or so we’ll be talking Hall Of Fame if he stays on track.
Hah, I’m pretty sure everyone on here is too young for Honus Wagner.
Speak fer yerself, ya young whippersnapper.
Mex? I’d bet just on his belly alone. He could bump JR into the cockpit with one flex of that thing
what did keith actually say?
“Here is what they said on Ch. 11 in the top of the seventh:
Cohen: Reyes has taken his glove off and is standing hands on hips out there, with the glove on the ground. That’s something you don’t like to see. That’s not a good look.
Hernandez: Well, he’s got to get over that. Enough babying going on now. He’s a grown man, he’s been around a long enough time. Take off the kid gloves.
Here is what they said in the bottom of the seventh, following a shot of Reyes picking up his glove and sunglasses after throwing them to the ground, then trotting slowly off the field:
Hernandez: There’s one thing you have to do when you’re an everyday player. It’s not that tough. You run onto the field, and you run off of the field, to start the inning and at the end of the inning, no matter if you hit a triple with the bases loaded or you made an error or you struck out. It’s a simple thing to do, just run off the field, don’t walk off the field. Nothing looks worse than a team walking off a field.
Cohen: The question is, what was he upset about? Was he upset about making the bad play or about the fact the error was charged to him?
Hernandez: I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he’s mad at himself. I’m hopeful that that’s what it is.”
Source:Newsday
Hernandez also got on him at the end of the inning for standing on the field and pouting rather than running off the field.
I don’t care about what happened. I’m just highly amused by the cry baby picture Matt put on this entry.
kieth is an old fat man… a typical old fat jock that still thinks he can stand with kids…….. thank god it didnt come to blows.. kieth would have been humiliated but quik….
Happy 4th of July to Matt, his staff and all you crazy posters that fill my dull and boring days.
Be safe out there and Lets Go Mets!
Your friends at Mets Merized Online!
It’s a shame New Yorkers love this crap. Otherwise the NY Post would be out of business
kieth is also a pompus slob… who cant comment on a single play without somehow throwing in how great he was and how great he looked in a cardinals uni…….
You must be 12 and not know firsthand how great Keith was. I’ll take Keith opinions over jose’s anyday and twice on Sunday. Plus, he, Ronnie and gary are the best booth in baseball. Any of you among those stuck out-of-market with the Extra Innings Package or MLB.tv, ….you know what I am talking about.
why reyes…. why not pick on delgado…..
Because Delgado is just playing badly. Nothing juicy about that. Next time he does something like not come out for a curtain call, he’ll be the story again.
I read the NY Post article and what is striking to me is that Reyes seems to care; but remarkably, cares more about the fact that family and friends brought this up to him. You know he’s got a rep to protect.
This is displayed all over our culture, that insults, real or imagined, are the greatest crime, and must be dealt with swiftly and in some cases violently.
Amen. Poor Reyes got “dissed” and needs to protect his precious honor. Too bad the truth hurts the crybaby so much.
jeff francouer was optioned down to AA. wow!
Interesting non sequitur…I’d take Frenchy Heart any day. What happened to him? Must have hit the skids. Guy’s a gamer!
Keith was right. Reyes is a baby.
Grow up and act like a professional.
and tell me, what does acting like a professional entail?
i feel like carlos beltran is as professional as you can get, yet he gets killed for making it look too easy and smooth.
HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY EVERYONE!
The fact is that what happens off the field can often have a profound affect on what happens on the field. The players are not robots, but flesh and blood like the rest of us. What they experience in their personal/private lives can give us insight into how thay handle things on the field. I don’t think that most fans fully understand and appreciate how various life events can and do affect every aspect of both our private and public lives. This is especially true for those in the public eye.
Having said that, I agree that it really isn’t our business to pry into every nook and cranny of each player’s lives. However, I hope that whatever news does come out, like news of a fight or clubhouse discord, will serve to remind us that the players are still human beings and can help us understand them better.
Very true. And consider the fact that, even with today’s media, we don’t know about everything. Last year, when J.D. Drew was struggling with the Sox, we eventually learned that his kid was having some problems. This spring, for the first time, when talking about being a new father, Carlos Beltran mentioned that his wife had previously miscarried a couple of times–including one time after they had heard the heartbeat. Depending on when that happened, that could have been a very logical explanation for a slump. But, we don’t always hear everything, despite it feeling like we do, so it’s easy to forget that there might be a lot more going on than what we see on the field.
No one seems to mention that Bart Hubbach is the same amateur that ran the story about Manuel calling the mets fans “fertilizer” and interpreting that statement literally when every other human being with a pulse interpreted it as a metaphor. I’m not saying the story is fabricated, but I have no reason to believe he is representing the story accurately. He’s a hack, who writes for a hack newspaper.
True, but you don’t put the quotes he has in the story unless they’re accurate.
Unless you’re Scott Templeton.
Good point. It seems like throwing the Mets under the bus is Hubbach’s agenda. He is all about negativity.
does this bus have ladies or gangstas on it?
At least he didn’t choke him then get released! :-D
who goin to Philly this weekend???
I am! I’m going tonite. =)
There is safety in numbers! We’ll be there!! With Mr. Met on…and hoping there will be NO FIREWORKS until the 10:30 fireworks over the city! LET’S GO METS
CC goin to the Brewers is just about a done deal
As long as he doesn’t go to the Phillies.
How about we boycott all “news” from the New York post?
The Mets are finally hitting. Which also coincides with Castillo not wasting the best spot in the lineup for a struggling hitter.
Endy’s hitting great in the 2 spot. With some power. Little Endy. Power. **** castillo.
Wait wait wait, you still bother reading the Post? I took that crapbag off my bookmarks list a long time ago.
I know this is random…but i’ve been following this guy in fantasy baseball for a while and find it a shame that he is a #4 outfielder. Ryan Spilborghs is a 28 year old right hander from Colorado. In 602 career AB’s over the last 3 seasons he is batting .295 with 101 RBI, 19 HR, and 91 Runs – not to discount his 16 SB and .824 OPS. How come a guy like this has never come up as a possible guy that the mets would trade for to round out our offense. I know he would technically be a #4 outfielder here too…but with so many injuries *cough* Moises Alou *cough* I don’t see how he wouldnt get a ton of AB’s here. Also, the Rockies don’t seem to be going anywhere this season so they could be looking to unload players for some younger prospects (if we have any). However, I don’t think that his price would be that high considering his age and the Rockie’s pretty much set outfield for years to come in Holliday, Taveras, Hawpe.
Granted his Away BA is .274 vs. a .321 at Coors….he’d still be a very great player to have on the team. Oh, and did I mention that in 1137.2 innings in the field he has only made 3 errors over that span (with 232.2 innings errorless innings in LF).
This guy is way better to have off the bench than say a Fernando Tatis or Chris Aguilla, so can we please get a fan movement going?
how about the fact that the story is verified on THE OFFICIAL METS website………. does that still make the story less true cuz the post broke it…..?
It’s definitely a story. And a fun one at that!
I love seeing the Mets showing emotions, on and off the field. It is what made ‘86 such a joy, and hopefully will revive what was a pretty lame first half of this season.
good point……… and thats how i’m seeing this…. the emotion is refreshing….
I’m not claiming the story is false, I’m just saying there is a whole lot of conjecture in the article. Was is a confrontation? A shouting match? A conversation? A near fist fight? Maybe it’s semantics, but Hubbach wants to push the idea that they almost fought each other, but that’s a subjective call coming from a person who, in that past, has demonstrated that he isn’t always capable of representing quotes/situations in an accurate way.
“every other off-field soap opera that has been forced upon me through the text-media this season”
Forced?
It’s your site. Don’t post the drivel. Or instead of:
News: Keith and Reyes have Confrontation
make it:
Don’t Care: Keith and Reyes have Confrontation.
Make a brief post and link to the pinhead media and leave it at that.
If you post on the confrontation again, then you’re part of the problem and you can dismount from your high horse.
How about that bases clearing triple? Jose Reyes does it again!
I wish Reyes would stop acting like a baby and grow up an be a freaking man already. What is he Milton Bradley Jr.
youve got to be kidding me. HOW IS HE NOT GROWN UP! how is he not acting like a man? you guys are really something else.
when paul lo duca acts like goddamn idiot child, you hear cheers. look at his heart! look at his fire! what possibly is your problem with how reyes is acting!
i remember when this guy came on the scene, all i heard from people is that “oh i hope he still plays with the joy he has now to have the opportunity to play in the majors. oh i love his spirit!”
jeeze…can you guys TRY to be consistant??
What does Lo Duca have to do with anything here. Reyes is acting like a BABY. Your friends and family tell you the announcer is saying bad things or should I say THE TRUTH about you, so you confront him. How MATURE is that.? Since you brought up Lo Duca, he was right about one thing, look at the comments he made about this team, seem pretty dead on to me .
The Republicans have the Clntons to Blame for everything
Mets fans have LoDuca.We will now blame him for all the bad things that happen to The Mets from now on.
I didn’t see anybody blaming LoDuca for all the Mets’ problems. I see someone (accurately) pointing out that, when LoDuca threw a fit, he was called “fiery,” but when Jose Reyes throws a fit, he’s called “immature” or a “baby.” That fight LoDuca had with the umpire last year, when he got thrown out of the game and his eyes were bugging out of his head? That’s a lot worse than throwing a glove on the field and/or coming off the field slowly. Not that I have a problem with anything Keith said–I love that he doesn’t pull any punches–but, while Keith seems to treat similar stories in a similar manner, the same cannot be said for the rest of the media and many fans.
It’s different–Reyes’ tantrum seemed like he might’ve been throwing it because of a teammate’s play, not his own.
Hahaha, this is great. It’s good to see Keith showing these kids how the Mets used to operate back in the 80’s with the fighting on charters and whatnot. I like that Reyes is defending himself. He’s been a tear lately. If it takes Keith Hernadez physically getting on the charter and kicking every one of these Met’s asses to get them over .500 then I’m all for it.
NEWSFLASH – I’m at the clubhouse and Ralph Kiner and Damian Easley are going at it! Seems Easley wanted to watch the Sox Yankees game while Kiner preferred ESPN’s coverage of the Coney Island Hot Dog Eating Contest. Fight! Fight! Fight!
Five bucks on Kiner!
Look I love them both… but the last thing I need is my star ss going down for the season with a broken hand that he suffered while fighting the announcer. Also, If it happened sunday why is it ‘breaking’ today?
hehe dontrelle willis fantasy comparison is -60.5….never saw anybody w/ negative pionts lmao
metsblog: MAN THIS TEAM HAS NO FIGHT! THEY DONT CARE! LOOK AT THEM! THEY GAVE UP! OH MAN SHOW ME SOME HEART
team shows heart, gets upset, sticks up for themselves
metsblog: GROW UP! ITS A MANS GAME! STOP SHOWING YOUR EMOTIONS LIKE THAT!
hahaha priceless.
typical of the area media and its anti-met bias which
goes back years!
I think Reyes gives a pretty lame excuse why he threw his glove down. Yes, I’m sure he was very upset for not making the throw but he doesn’t need to slam his glove down like that and make a scene like a little kid. I didn’t think it was that big of a deal just a little immature on my part. Maybe some people don’t agree with that but that’s my opinion on his actions.
*on his part
Why is it immature but other players do it and they have passion and want to win. When players punch coolers or pitchers and catchers bark at each other its no big deal this guy makes a bad throw and throws his glove down in disgust he’s “immature”. Im just sick of everyone getting on this guy for every little thing he does. I just cant wait until he gets that championship under his belt so all this nonsense can finally stop.
I’ve never seen a guy throw his glove down in disgust on the field. Maybe that’s just me yet to see it happen.
Yes, pitchers do it but you don’t see them throw their glove down when they give up a home run and do it on the mound. He wants to throw something go in the dugout and do it after the inning.
What’s the difference where he throws his glove? If it’s in the dugout, like it is most of the time with baseball players, the cameras still catch it, and everybody still sees it. Only difference is that the fans in the stadium, behind the Mets dugout, do not see it live.
it’s odd that nobody, when mentioning the 86 team, remembers that lots of that “fire” and “flare” that the team showed in those days was quite often fueled by the rage and fury of the recreational chemicals used in the 80’s. it’s not much of a secret that many mets were active participants at the time, and there’s no need now either to point fingers or assign blame, but it’s a good thing that these substances are not enjoying the same popularity now as then or else we would be having many more confrontations based on “fire” and “flare”.
i think our booth team of gary, ron and keith are the most entertaining and well informed bunch. and the fact that keith is outspoken and not an apologist for some of the boneheaded things that the mets players and managers and front office do is terrific. i love his off handed comments and hope he doesn’t decide to censor himself to spare feelings. as far as reyes, leave the guy alone. his “fire” seems to come from his passion for the game and not from other stimulants. jeez, after saying that, i hope it’s true!
Actually, why is it better that the coke is less prevalent? Doc, Straw and Keith all played well on the coke! Coke em up, I say!
First, I wouldn’t worry about Keith censoring himself–I don’t know the man, personally, but I can’t see him *ever* censoring himself. Remember when he made that comment about women in the dugout, and SNY made him apologize on air? He certainly apologized, but right after, he quoted one of the rules from MLB’s rulebook (one about who is allowed in the dugout, and how many of them), to defend what he had previously said. So, I don’t think he is likely to change his style because one of the Mets’ stars objected to them–and I am happy about that!
Second, though it is irrefutable that lots of the ‘86 Mets did coke and God knows what else, as they constantly partied, it’s a stretch to say that their “fight” and “flare” was fueled by the drugs. If anything, I would say that both the drug use, as well as the “fire” and “flare,” were symptoms of the culture and environment of the time. They were superstars in “the city that never sleeps,” enjoying great success. They also had a bunch of “dirtbag”-type players, with fiery personalities, enjoying the same success. It’s not surprising that that kind of success, combined with a level of fan adoration that has certainly never been matched in *my* lifetime, would result in curtain calls and pushing people around. Every time they did something like that, they got more love–are you really surprised they would keep going back for more?
And, well, in the ’80s, if you were a star, you were doing coke (and many “non-stars” were doing coke, too, for that matter). It was just a part of the culture that resulted from their success and celebrity. An unfortunate part of it, but a part of it–not the cause, though.
Let’s talk about Darlings’ arrest for a bar room incident in Houston when he was with the Mets and Hernandez’ Pittsburgh grand jury testimony concerning his first hand knowledge of cocaine use and then we can talk about Jose Reyes throwing his glove in frustration for having given the opposition an extra out or Milledge slapping five with Mets fans after his first homerun… big damn deal. Reyes is a great player—enjoy watching him now because I can easily understand why he would sign elsewhere when his contract is up—who needs such a crappy media and such negative fans…the guy used to be such a joyful player. I hope none of the players ever read comments on this site. They are so rarely constructive.
Tell ‘Em Hoss!
LGM!
Matt … are you kidding me. You could have easily avoided “wasting your time” by not posting anything referring to Hubbuch’s story. Instead, you made a post of it … then continued to contradict yourself.
Is that you in the photo attached to the post?
I totally agree. I wouldn’t have known anything about this if you hadn’t posted it, Matt. Reyes hit a triple to break the game open last night but Pelfrey gets most of the props and Reyes gets this…
Agreed… I’m normally a fan of Cerrone’s “big picture” perspective and style of writing, but this comes off as very whiny. Pretty uncharacteristic and disappointing…
Gossip Girl here, wanting and knowing the insight all my favorite Upper East siders.
If you didn’t really care, why did you bother posting anything about it? I think it’s kind of interesting. I’d guess that Keith told Reyes something like — “You’re a major league baseball player, one of the luckiest guys in the world. Start acting like you understand that means you carry yourself with some class.” Good for him. Reyes may not have appreciated it, but let’s hope he takes the advice.
But why does Reyes get the “grow up” speech, whereas, when Wright beat the hell out of the dugout bench a few weeks back, it;s simply noted as a year’s worth of frustration?
The field is sacred; the clubhouse isn’t.
Its amazing that the editor of the post lets this become the back page though. Sure, its worth reporting on, but back page?
How can anyone be this cranky on independence day?
I like Keith’s commentary. I think he does a very good job and is generally evenhanded. Biut when he and Ro Darling start getting sanctimonious and talking like they were paragons of maturity as players, it strikes me as a case of selective memory. Check this out:
The Pittsburgh drug trials of 1985 were the catalyst for a baseball-related cocaine scandal which resulted in the harshest Major League Baseball penalties since the Black Sox scandal of 1919. Several Pittsburgh Pirates — Dale Berra, Lee Lacy, Lee Mazzilli, John Milner, Dave Parker, and Rod Scurry — and other notable major league players — Willie Mays Aikens, Vida Blue, Enos Cabell, Keith Hernandez, Jeffrey Leonard, Tim Raines, and Lonnie Smith — were called before a Pittsburgh grand jury. Their testimony led to the drug trials, which made national headlines in September 1985.
Testimony
The players were granted immunity in exchange for their testimony. Ex-Pirate John Milner talked about getting amphetamines from Hall of Famers Willie Mays and Willie Stargell. Milner added that he bought two grams of cocaine for $200 in the bathroom stalls at Three Rivers Stadium during a Pirates-Houston Astros game in 1980. Keith Hernandez revealed he’d used cocaine for three years. Hernandez added that about 40 percent of all Major League Baseball players were using cocaine at the time. Hernandez however, quickly backtracked by saying that he might have been “grossly wrong.” Tim Raines told how he’d keep a gram of coke in his uniform pocket (as well as revealing that he snorted during games), and that he only slid into bases headfirst as not to break the vial. [1]
Testimony also revealed that Rod Scurry once went looking for cocaine during the late innings of a Pirates game. Drug dealers frequented the Pirates’ clubhouse. Even the Pirate Parrot, Kevin Koch, was implicated for buying cocaine and introducing a few of the ballplayers to a local drug dealer.
[edit] Verdict
Curtis Strong and six Pittsburgh men were convicted and found guilty of 11 counts of distributing cocaine. Strong received a 12-year prison sentence but was ultimately released after serving just four years. Dale Shiffman from Pittsburgh was indicted on 111 counts, pled guilty to 20, was sentenced to 12 years and served twenty-four months.
[edit] Ramifications
On February 28, 1986, Baseball Commissioner Peter Ueberroth handed down suspensions to 11 players—seven for a full season. All avoided the suspensions by agreeing to donate a small percentage of their 1986 salaries to a drug program and do community service work. The players who were suspended for a full year were allowed to play under the condition that they donated 10 percent of their base salaries to drug-related community service, submitted to random drug testing, and contributed 100 hours of drug-related community service:
* Joaquín Andújar
* Dale Berra
* Enos Cabell
* Keith Hernandez
* Jeffrey Leonard
* Dave Parker
* Lonnie Smith
The four players who were suspended for just 60 days were allowed to play if they donated 5 percent of base salaries and contributed 50 hours of drug-related community service:
* Al Holland
* Lee Lacy
* Lary Sorensen
* Claudell Washington
Peter Ueberroth also asked every player to submit to voluntary urine tests. Ultimately, the Players Association thwarted that plea.
thanks, mh. i mentioned earlier about this “fire” that the mets of 86 were always showing, and i’m glad you followed it up. those events seem to be somehow forgotten by today’s fans, or perhaps they’re young and have never heard of these facts. in any event, keith is always interesting and his perspective, for me, is even more valuable based on his life experience, good or bad. it is true, however, as you mention, that he might do well to remember his own youth.
Let me preface this by saying that I think Reyes is getting a raw deal, and I’m sick of hearing about him supposedly needing to grow up.
That being said, there is a difference between doing coke and throwing your glove on the field because you’re upset you made an error. Doing coke is certainly much worse, and much more significant, but it has *nothing* to do with a player “presenting himself professionally on the field,” or whatever the gripe is with Jose throwing his glove. Doing coke is bad for reasons having nothing to do with baseball.
Again, though, I want it clear that I have no problem with what Jose did. It’s just that, if it *is* wrong, it’s wrong for reasons having *everything* to do with baseball. The same cannot be said for a player doing coke.
Drugs aren’t the problem; the abuse of drugs is the problem. Outlawing nature is silly.
MH…you’re a colossal A-hole for dragging up crap from 23 years ago.
So the announcers made mistakes many years ago…so what? Now they can’t say anything about anything? Is that your rule?
It’s called perspective.
Presumably they’ve learned something from their mistakes. Reyes should be listening to Keith, not getting in his face.
I said I generally enjoy Keith’s commentary…I like his forth rightness but I don’t like his sanctimony. My point is they are remarking about the maturity level of these players and their tone and comments in no way acknowledge their own poor judgment, which was much more serious than anything Reyes has done. They get preachy. Reyes throwing his glove is an nonevent except for the big deal the media has made of it. Hernandez on the other hand was using when he was a player. He got immunity to snitch on people who were doing what he had been doing for 3 years. Personally I am not sitting in judgment of Keith on his drug use. But his mistake was recurrent and premeditated whereas Reyes’ was a reaction to an error.
GregB
My point is that Keith could’ve simply defused the issue on the telecast by simply acknowledging Reyes’ frustration with himself. He chose to call him a baby instead… During the YES broadcast of that game David Cone was all over Reyes as well. When Cone was with the Mets there was a play during which he argued with an ump at first base without calling timeout, while runners for the opposing team flew around the bases and scored. I am perfectly happy to cut Keith and Ron and David Cone…former Mets…some slack but I’d like to see them get off their high horses.
Imagine if Reyes had done this:
Concerning Ron Darling: “On July 19, he and teammates Bob Ojeda, Rick Aguilera and Tim Teufel were arrested outside a bar in Houston, Texas for fighting with security guards (who were also off-duty police officers). All four were released in time for the following game and the worst results were $200 fines but the incident fed into the Mets’ reputation as a rowdy crew that season.”
Keith is colorful. He speaks his mind and occasionally goes ‘over the top’. That’s part of his charm and a big part of why Met broadcasts are interesting and enjoyable despite the mediocrity of the team they are covering.
You can drag up all the examples of past indiscretions by Keith and Ron that Google will serve up to you, but why should they matter? You seem to be stuck on the point that if someone has made a mistake in the past, they are no longer entitled to point out the mistakes of others.
People often make mistakes and hopefully they learn from them. If they can use that hard-earned perspective to point out to others the mistakes they are making, then maybe some good will come of it.
I don’t care what Keith did in the early ’80’s. (I’m glad the Mets didn’t either, or we probably wouldn’t have won in ‘86.) If Keith thinks Reyes was behaving like a baby, he’s probably got a better perspective on it than you or I.
Google did not serve up these indiscretions to me, I remember them. Google refreshed my memory as to the details. In any case, we agree that Keith is interesting. We agree that it’s good the Mets forgave his indiscretions and Darling’s as well. We also agree that there is value in the perspective a former player can offer concerning a current player. Most of the time Keith and Ron are fair in their comments. In this instance I think Keith was not fair…same with David Cone. Their comments did not concern his play but rather characterized his person. At that point I begin to think about their conduct when they were already older than he is now and think…they were not subjected to this level of scrutiny when they were players. They were cut a lot more slack for more serious matters. That’s fine. But maybe they should bear that in mind when they are making very public comments about someone like Reyes and temper their remarks. That’s all. The media sharks like blood and Keith helped draw it by turning the surface scratch that Reyes caused himself with his actions into a wound.
Keith wasn’t the only one to notice Reyes’ behavior. It was probably making the papers anyway. Keith just voiced what many of us watching the game were thinking. The only reason the ‘baby’ term was used was because this wasn’t the first sign if immaturity on Jose’s part.
Try this. Suppose it was Chavez that made an error and threw down his glove in frustration. (Hard to picture, I know). Would Keith have called him a baby? Probably not, because it would have been out of character for Endy to do that. Keith may have pointed out that it was unacceptable, but that would have been the end of it. Jose picked up the ‘pouting’ label last year and the glove incident was hot on the heels of his poor behavior getting removed from Jerry Manuel’s first game. If Jose stops doing things like that, he won’t have to worry about what Keith is saying about him.
Finally, none if this has anything to do with whether or not Keith misbehaved 25 years ago. There is no ‘credibilty gap’. There is no ‘yeah, but Keith was immature once, too’. It’s about Jose and Keith gets to call ‘em as he sees ‘em.
I’ve enjoyed the discussion though. I’ll even retract the ‘colossal A-Hole’ comment. :-)
It;s story in the NY Post.They have some good writers but they are owned by Murdoch who will make stuff up and print it and blow it out of context.
They may have had words who knows
BTW-keith got us a champioship
immature ,to me is a fifty something year old fat guy, acting like he’s going to fight a 20 something world class athlete..
grow up kieth…. your old…
Remember, according to both Keith and Jose, it wasn’t even a confrontation, let alone a fight.
It was a conversation.
Personally, I’ll take the word of Keith and Jose over some reporter from the Post. Heck, I don’t care if the Post is right, I’ll STILL take the players’ words at this point, ’cause the Post sucks so much.
The media is going to overplay it, the parties involved are going to downplay it – the truth is usually somewhere in the middle…
hey John-Screw You-I am over 50 have lots of younger friends and I have seen more great things in my life than you can ever expect to.You may make it to over 50 and you will realize-with age comes wisdom.
Now shut up and make this about baseball
No question the worst post I’ve read on this blog, and I’ve been here since close to the beginning. Matt, you sound like Omar blaming the media and what not.
This stuff is all on the team. They start winning games, and the off the field stuff is a non-issue.
why should kieth confront anyone? he’s an announcer…… he should act his age and walk away …..
Reading comprehension is our friend:
“Reyes said friends and family alerted him to the comments immediately after the game, prompting him to approach Hernandez in front of teammates on the late-night flight here to St. Louis.”
In other words, Jose confronted Keith, not vice-vera.
Let’s focus on the game tonight.
Does anyone think Santana will show up tonight and be the real ace this team needs????
He needs to go 7-8 IP with 0 runs (and not just 0 earned runs, 0 RUNS!!)
It’s time to Cowboy Up and become a Met, JOHAN!!!
Agreed – Johan can make a serious statement tonight…
here ,here…….
They were arguing over who was the best Prime Minister in British history. Reyes said it was William Pitt the Elder. Keith said it was Lord Palmerston.
Fight and Bicker till November!
Just keep hitting the G-D ball, and let’s make the series in St. Lou the true turning point that I think it is.
Bust up the Filthies Bad!!
Let’s Go Mets!
Happy 4th!!!
not sure if it matters, but borowski was released
You’re right, it doesn’t matter. Eric Wedge believes your closer is your worst reliever.
What does “comments won’t nest below this level” mean?
Why did my comment trigger it?
it means if someone replies to your comment it will be directly under it instead of off to the side a little, so it’s harder to see who the comment was actually in response to.
Thanks.
Sorry, I have to vent but I was just watching Mike and Mike on ESPN and they were interviewing Steve Phillips. He actually had the audacity to say, in reference to teams trading away talent in panic mode to make the playoffs, that the Mets “organization” did that when “they” traded away Scott Kazir for an “aging” Victor Zambrano….are you f&*king serious!?!?!?!?!?
GOD how I HATE that man….
Don’t understand your comment. Phillips was not the GM when they traded away Kazmir. Duquette was.
Aww… I think it’s cute that you Muts fans still have team spirit.
But let’s recall some fun facts — the highest paid pitcher in the MLB is 7-7, and curiously enough a Met. The 3rd highest payroll has bought you a sub 500 record. And now you are playing the very team you rolled over for last year. Doesn’t that memory still haunt you at night? Well I loved it.
Good luck with these next four games. I know, if you attend the game, you aren’t expecting a win, so at least stay for the fire works.
GO PHILS!
Wow, trolling on Metsblog huh? You’re a winner!!
Last I checked we’ve taken 4 of 6 from you this year! And you’ve only one 6 of your last 15 games!
Boston series…lost.
Angels series…lost.
Oakland series…lost.
Texas series…lost.
Atlanta…sweep (not bad but does it really matter?)
See the pattern? We’re back in the race and the mear fact that you’re here shows us Phillies fans are worried!!!
“….and the mear fact that you’re here shows us Phillies fans are worried!!!”
nah, we’re here for the comedy/drama.
And because you’re team can only beat a team that has no starting pitching and just sent their starting RF to Double A.
In the spirit of our fine nation on this celebration of our independence, please have a wonderful day and enjoy America’s favorite passtime.
(Yes, even a jerk like you is allowed to express your opinion today. It is the American way)
Hey, Mets’ fans attacked my site, so I return the favor. Just remember that we’re still on top.
Which site is your site?
I promise I will only write nice things — heck, I am going to Philly this weekend, and I look forward to truly enjoying what I hear is a beautiful ballpark. And some Mets wins, of course…
And that means? You don’t see Cerrone hoping from site to site trying to “defend” erratic posters like yourself. But then again, that’s why he has the largest Mets fan based site in the world and now works with SNY…where as, I have no idea who you are, nor do I care.
Stay classy Philly!
Really, this is what you’ve chosen to do today? This?
GregB
My point is that Keith could’ve simply defused the issue on the telecast by simply acknowledging Reyes’ frustration with himself. He chose to call him a baby instead… During the YES broadcast of that game David Cone was all over Reyes as well. When Cone was with the Mets there was a play during which he argued with an ump at first base without calling timeout, while runners for the opposing team flew around the bases and scored. I am perfectly happy to cut Keith and Ron and David Cone…former Mets…some slack but I’d like to see them get off their high horses.
Imagine if Reyes had done this:
Concerning Ron Darling: “On July 19, he and teammates Bob Ojeda, Rick Aguilera and Tim Teufel were arrested outside a bar in Houston, Texas for fighting with security guards (who were also off-duty police officers). All four were released in time for the following game and the worst results were $200 fines but the incident fed into the Mets’ reputation as a rowdy crew that season.”
Actually keith said the Mets should stop babying Jose. He did not call him a baby.
Didn’t Keith say something to the effect that the Mets need to stop babying Jose? If so, that’s the same thing as calling him a baby.
No. It’s a knock on the Mets more than it is on Reyes.
I agree that something should be said to Reyes but I believe it is an announcers job to announce not lecture players. And I love Keith but he shouldn’t be talking about discipline.
Also, if Matt is so sick of writing about these topics he should just not write about them. I’m guessing it isn’t just the print media – as he points out – pushing these topics. Most of this talk is fueled by sites like this. And I love metsblog.com.
Oh, and Rollins is just 8th in Win Shares this year. Jose is ahead of him too.
And Wright is the third best at 3rd in the NL right now in Win Shares, behind only Chipper and Ramirez. If Chipper can’t attend the All-Star game, Wright deserves the nod.
he should be there anyway – his numbers are better than ramirez’s, and he plays at shea, not wrigley
Win Shares is park adjusted. So Ramirez gets no advantage because he plays at Wrigley. However, Wright is ahead of Ramirez in many offensive and defensive categories so a good case can be made that he should be on the all-star squad regardless.
by the way, i know that was rehashed time and again when the trade happened and it’s still early for their careers, but i am really glad right now that we kept pelfrey and somehow handed minnesota humber and mulvey. guerra still has time to be good, but is a ways away while humber looks like a flat out bust. mulvey won’t ever be anything special.
gotta love the big pelf, now if f-mart can get it going for a while…
Jose Reyes is a great shortstop, but has shown little growth as a player or as a person. That’s just the truth. He is what he is, and we should be happy with that but, but I no longer expect more from him. I just hope he’s working enough to maintain.
i agree with you, but it’s not hard to envision him maturing in these next few years. i hate to say it, but rollins came in with a bang, fizzled for a few and then had better years in his late 20’s. while jose has been superior to rollins’ early career, i wouldn’t mind seeing a similar boost as he hits him prime.
it’s odd and we hammer him at times, but the guy just turned 25. he gives us reason to complain and to often expect more, but just think that in 4 years, when f-mart is 23, maine is 30, johan is 33, jose will only be 29
Shown little growth as a player? Do you remember his on-base % a few years back? His pitch recognition? This guy is putting up Honus Wagner type numbers and we’re resigned to it?
“that said, i am so sick and tired of wasting time writing about who should be fired, who shouldn’t, front-office deception, fights between players and broadcasters, possible clubhouse division, eighth-inning sing-a-longs, home run apples, and every other off-field soap opera that has been forced upon me through the text-media this season…it’s ridiculous…”
Couldn’t have said it better myself…. amen my brother
funny right now tbs is playing the keith hernandez episodes
I really dislike Ron Darling and Keith on SNY. They were good players, but they show a surprising lack of understanding of baseball sometimes. Keith is overly focused on RBIs as an indicator of success and Ron Darling is constantly dismissing statistical analysis and modern theory. If one reads the transcripts instead of listening, its hard to tell when its Ron Darling speaking and when its Ralph Kiner.
Ron Darling is a less pompous Joe Morgan. Which is good because Keith more then compensates.
Tragedy is when age defeats youth; comedy is when youth triumphs.
Hernandez (cocaine and dog knows what else) and Darling (defaulting on his Yales loans while earning $1M) were triumphant comedy that culminated in 1986, along with the rest who put the middle finger up to authority.
I’ll take Jose’s comedy any day over the old scolds. Just kudos to the Mets organization for a long history of contraianism (Kiner’s Korner featured the winners so we got to know all NL players; McCarver and Davey Johnson going at it, etc.—can you imagine the Evil Bronxian Empire ever doing this?)
I’ll take the Jose/Keith thing as a positive omen.
Reyes is a baby and people who are baby’s do not become perennial all-stars, let alone hall of famers.
“Comment by anrst
2008-07-04 18:18:18
Reyes is a baby and people who are baby’s do not become perennial all-stars, let alone hall of famers.”
Oh…OK. I guess you better dig up Mickey Mantle (alcoholism, voyeurism, etc.), Ty Cobb (racism, furious temper), and Babe Ruth (alcoholism, hedonism, gluttony) and let them know they’re out of the HOF.
…so you’re putting Ty Cobb, Mantle and Ruth in the same breath as Reyes … right … anyway, racism, hedonism, rage, alcoholism, whatever, that stuff may be self destructive but it doesn’t make you a cry baby… There are no pouty sulking cry babys in the hall …
Matt, and everybody– just want to point out that if this team was, say, 50-37, we wouldn’t be picking away at any of these scabs. Look at us, and all these stupid arguments, finger-pointing, and name-calling amongst us.
Of course, there are some who think that the internet’s purpose is specifically for uncalled-for verbal abuse and provocation. And there are some of those on this board.
But I think if Mets fans were in a happier place in general, and not getting whiplashed with frustration every day none of what Matt called “and every other off-field soap opera that has been forced upon me through the text-media this season” would matter. It probably wouldn’t be there, because the media would winning to write about, instead of all this nonsense to inflate into the crisis du jour.
Keith’s right. Keep on keepin’ it real moustache man.
thank you.
The double standard is part of what irks me, too.
Yess! and unlike Daryl Strawberry who missed a punch because he couldn’t hit lefties its Reyes best side.
“Boom, a nice level swing,I like that.”