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The Mets (42–44) lost to the Phillies (48–39) by the score of 3 to 2 in Philadelphia tonight.
For a recap, boxscore, stats, etc., go to SNY.tv.
However, in case you missed it, know that Johan Santana looked great, but, for some bizarre reason, was removed by Jerry Manuel after the eighth inning, despite having thrown just 95 pitches while letting up just two runs and six base runners. Naturally, though he struck out Ryan Howard and Pat Burrell, Duaner Sanchez let up a double to Pedro Feliz and then a walk-off single to Shane Victorino to end the game.
What’s worse, the Phillies were freakishly pumped up following the win, leaving me quite worried right now.
In the fifth, the Mets sent up eight batters, but managed to only score two runs, leaving the bases loaded on a strike out by Carlos Beltran. In the first, Jose Reyes was able to reach third base with just one out, but David Wright and Beltran both popped out. In the ninth, Brad Lidge needed just five pitches to retire Damion Easley, Ryan Church and Marlon Anderson.
Santana has a 2.48 ERA in his last six starts, during which the Mets are 0–6 while averaging just two runs per game.
Honestly, I’m totally confused why Santana was pulled from the game. The only thing I can think of is that Santana struggled against Howard, Burrel and Feliz in their previous time up. But, still, given his pitch count and rhythm, and the fact that he’s ‘the ace,’ he should have remained in the game. That said, the offense should have blown this game wide open in the fifth, and they didn’t, and so they are equally to blame for this loss.
Eventually, Phillies or no Phillies, the Mets will have to win and get over .500 and, again, the clock is ticking.
The Mets continue their four-game series with the Phillies tomorrow in Philadelphia at 7:05 pm, with John Maine (8-6, 3.86 ERA) facing Jamie Moyer (7-6, 4.13 ERA).
i want people to see how much the phillies have owned us. every real mets fan is haunted by at least some of these games:
1. 6/5/07- utley hits a 2 run home run off feliciano in the top of the 10th. mets lose 4-2
2. 6/6/07- mets up 2-0. rollins hits a 3 run dinger off heilman in the 7th inning. mets lose 4-2
3. 6/7/07- mets up 3-2 in the 9th. burrell ties the game with a home run off wagner. phils score 3 in 10th. mets lose 6-3
4. 8/28/07- mets up 2-0 in the 8th. feliciano gives up a home run to rollins in the 8th. howard hits a walk off in the 10th off MOTA
5. 8/29/07- down 1 in the 9th, marlon anderson gets called for interference trying to break up a double play. if he doesnt get called for interference, the mets tie the game. instead, the mets lose 3-2.
6. 8/30/07- mets come back from down 5 runs. up 10-8, burrell hits a homer in the 8th. utley hits the walk off single in the 9th off wagner. mets lose 11-10
7. 9/14/07- mets up 2-0.. utley hits a game tying home run in the 6th. dobbs drives in the game winning run on a sac fly in the 10th. mets lose 3-2
8. 9/15/07- mets up 3-1 in the 7th. jimmy rollins puts the phils up 5-3 with a triple (beltran misplays the ball). mets lose 5-3
9. 9/16/07- mets tied 5-5 in the 6th inning. give up a run, followed by a greg dobbs grand slam. mets lose 10-6.
10. tonights game
these are 10 devastating losses to our main rival that would make any sensible person convert to a cricket fan. 10 games in the last 2 years where we had the lead and blew the game, getting beaten by the same usual suspects!!!! how is this possible.
looking at this stuff made me realize that our bullpen is always the suspect in causing us to lose all these damn games.
reading that physically hurt.
Remind me….Why did we get Santana?
Oh Yeah! It was because he can win games like this!
If he’s given a chance to that is.
That’s why I don’t care about beating the Yanks or Cards… the bottom line is the Mets can’t beat the Phils when it counts.
man i just…want to cry like a little girl. this hurts so bad…i thought i was a gangsta…
well i knew ten was going to happen once the game came back from commercial and duaner was on the mound.
i knew ten was going to happen when the game started, and guess what…tomorrow will be 11, and sunday will be 12 and monday will be 13. you can count on that friend
NO REASON TO PITCH TO VICTORINO THERE!! AHHHHHHHHH
if you can’t get victorino out, you don’t deserve to win.
the pitch he hit wasnt even a strike
stop complaining
i know right. Duaner did a good job busting him inside after going away away away,
why the heck was church playing so deep? with two strikes and and a pesky hitter at the plate, he should have been in closer, in case a flair or a sofft single fell through. i think the play at the plate could have been closer had church had not been playing in the second row.
Not getting Reyes in in the first set the tone for the game. Team seem to press at the plate after that. A lot of bad at bats.
I posted this in the previous thread and it deserves to be repeat here………………..
I will say this for the 5th time today. You don’t mess with a line-up that had 39 hits in the previous 3 games. We all know Church had 2 concussions and we don’t want him to play if he’s not feeling well, but if this was just a day of rest against the team you are chasing, then it’s unbelievable to me. It’s not just about one player, with church in the line-up, he LENGTHENS the whole line-up from top to bottom. The offense finally started to click and what does Manuel do? he sits one of the key cogs in that offense that was really starting to hit and hit it’s stride.
It just makes no sense. Team offense is very delicate in baseball, you change one piece and it throws it all out of whack. I know Beltran , Wright and Delgado didn’t perform well today and everyone is right in pointing the finger on them for the Mets loss today, but by removing Church from the line-up it changed the WHOLE DYNAMIC and flow of the batting order. It has a direct affect on everyone else. Dumb.
I totally agree with you. You have to consider these four games as playoff type games, therefore your best players must be out on the field.
Not only do we miss Church’s bat in the lineup, but also his defense. If he is playing, Chavez is playing left field and makes the catch on Werth’s single in the sixth inning, which was the turning point of that inning. And then did you see Aguila’s throw home it was awful. I am not saying Endy makes the throw home, but Aguila did not even look like a major leaguer throwing the ball home.
Only thing that would make sense is if Church came to Manuel and told him he wasn’t feeling well. But I think this was a stupid, pre-determined day off for Church by manuel to me it’s officially the first Dumb move in my mind by Manuel since Willie’s departure. No one’s perfect but manuel and the Mets have to show more sense of urgency, Like you said, this four games series HAS to be considered like play-off games. No excuse for not playing ALL your horses. I didn’t see the Phillies resting any of their key players?
Yeah, I agree with this being his first dumb move. And let’s just play devil’s advocate and say that Church did come to him and say that he needed the day off, then this goes right back to Minaya and the poor makeup of this roster and the status of our minor league system.
I believe that the man is a pathetic GM. People are going to say that he brought over players like Beltran and Martinez and made a name for the franchise. But if you look at those moves, he blew away Beltran and Martinez with money and years that no one else was even close to offering. And for Santana we were pretty much bidding against ourselves because the Red Sox and Yankees were just bluffing. Its the minor moves that make a GM worthy and I think more often than not his moves have blown up in his face.
He needs to go period.
A–friggin–men!!!!
As for overpaying with Martinez and Beltran—look at the team he was trying to bring them to for an explanation of his overpaying…And were Pedro and Beltran Minaya’s only moves? He brought Church over too…was that a bad move? How about getting Maine? Duaner Sanchez (recall how he pitched before the accident…)? Billy Wagner? Role players like Endy and Easley and Valentin—-very solid when healthy. Perez has been an enigma but Minaya got him in a desperation move when Sanchez was injured…pretty impressive under the circumstances. Apart from his trades of Bannister and Bell, which I didn’t like, the obvious grounds for criticism of Minaya has been his gamble that older players would stay healthy or play true to their histories…The results on that have been mixed…none moreso than Alou, Pedro, and El Duque all of whom are great when healthy but leave huge holes when not. Delgado was great the first year he was here…same with Pedro. These past two years Delgado seems to me to have problems with his eyesight…When he sees the ball (daytime) he can still hit the tar out of it; otherwise ( at night) he strikes out a lot. His contract and diminishing skills make him hard to move…It’s a shame we NY fans didn’t get to see him in his prime…he was a great hitter.
What’s so frustrating like tonight and the game in STL the other night is instead of getting back to .500, the team goes back to 2 under. It’s like one step forward and two back.
We come together cuz OPPOSITES ATTRACT!
isn’t it perez’s turn to pitch tommorrow?
no, it is maine’s turn and thank god he is going to pitch tomorrow. this is the only guy along with pelfrey that i have confidence in.
i must be missing something, b/c maine pitched in st louis and Perez last pitched against the yankees.
They said a week ago they wanted to split up the lefties. Perez was supposed to be in the bullpen in St. Louis but the situation never really arose.
they looked very unprepared at bat all game.
Killer in the 5th? Santana swinging at ball 3, 4 and 5 (who the heck could he swing 2-0? and 2-1 was in his face) Then, Beltran wiffing on a ball at least 2 feet out of the zone to end the 5th.
ALthough having Durbin K 6 of 7 batters didn’t do much either.
Still, if Santana doesn’t give up a bunch of hits together, they could still win. And once again, not having a real LF costs them, since quite possibly Endy would have caught the first hit (by Werth).
agreed that Santana should have been out for the 9th.
But, Lidge was coming back out anyway, so probably the Mets weren’t scoring in the 10th either!
This might have been the final nail.. Or at least put the final one real close.
And man, tomorrow is as close to a must win as you can get in July, because if they lose, I could see them packing it up and getting swept, while feeling sorry for themselves.
ANd if they leave Philly 5 under .500, and 8.5 back, Omar can just atart making his fire sale plans early.
In post game interview, at least Duaner did not try to pass the blame. I have alot of respect for him for that. Very stand-up.
Don’t bash Santana. The lineup needs to take accountability. We can’t blame the pitcher for not throwing a shutout every goddamn start.
i’d love for Maine to come out and pitch a big game like he is capable of. Pelfry, Santana, and Maine pitching well in three consecutive games would alleviate some of the pain from tonight’s loss.
as proven tonight, good pitching doesn’t matter when we’ve got Omar’s pathetic offense to work with
Matt … I agree with you re: Johan. I don’t know why he came out other than the Mets having a fresh bullpen thanks to Pelfrey last night. What I thought was curious was pinch-hitting for Castro with Church … if they had let Casto’s HR power hit, they could have PH Church for Aguila and let Johan pitch one more inning, and not wasted Marlon.
But it seems the decision to pull Johan was made immediately after the 8th – he was shaking hands with everyone. They must have told Johan he had the 8th and then he was done and we worked through it in only a few pitches.
I also agree with most posters … no way this is Church’s day off … Give him Sunday off … they needed this game and they needed all of their horses.
Manuel keeps saying they need to find a formula that works, well, they seem to have found it in the St. louis series as far as the offense. So what does he do once he finds it? He removes a key cog and we just saw the results.
The reason why they lost tonight the OFFENSE. Beltran himself left a SMALL ARMY on base. He, not Sanchez should step and take the blame for tonight’s loss.
So, if he takes strike three, he gets ridiculed and everyone on here makes some comment about “Gee. Beltran looked at strike 3 … never seen that before.”
So he sits on a fastball, gets one, and chases one out of the zone – a no doubt ball 4, and he still gets ridiculed … So I guess Beltran needs to always been perfect.
And for the record, except for taking a walk in the 5th, golden boy David Wright had a worse game (not getting Reyes in from first, grounding weakly with Chavez on deck, etc).
* Reyes from third IN THE FIRST I meant. ….
and this is not to pick on Wright … I’m just not sure why Beltran always gets the blame…..
Beltran’s been awful. Case closed.
Wow … that’s a great argument … you convinced me. He sucks.
check the box scores. you shouldn’t need an argument to be convinced of the obvious.
Beltran is a solid player, but should not be the clean up hitter. He’s just not cut out for it. He’s horrible with 2 outs, and not great with men on base.
Why is this team so afraid to make changes to things that obviously aren’t working?
Bat Beltran 2nd or even 3rd. Wright is much better with men on base and should be clean up.
“A Solid Player”???—He’s being PAID to be a
Superstar!!!
Then blame Omar for that, not him. But he would be a superstar if they would bat him in the right place, he’s one of the best defensive outfielders in the league, definately our best player on defense and still one of the better hitters in the league. He’s just not a guy you want in the 4 spot.
Exactly. We have never used Beltran properly, and he suffers for not meeting expectations in a role he shouldn’t be in in the first place.
David had a poor game at the plate and it was awfully close on that 1-2 pitch in the fifth that was called a ball. Easily could’ve been called out on strikes there.
I gave Wright one heck of a tough half-season grade there Nails (C), but for the record, golden boy David Wright has been playing MUCH better than Beltran the last two weeks and pretty much for the entire season.
Fully understood and I agree with you. Wright is much more reliable, less likely to take a thrid strike, seems to hustle a bit more, etc.
That said, before you threw the last two weeks disclaimer up there, Beltran was having a better year. I remember posting something about it. Beltran’s OBP was better, his OPS was higher, he had more steals, almost as many RBI … I think it’s a bit much to rail on a guy while he’s in a bad slump and praise the guy that’s hitting 450 or something over the last week.
Let’s see where they are at the end of the year.
Certainly the swing at ball 4 from Beltran was ridiculous and would have forced home a run …
But the Mets are not under .500 because of Beltran. Let’s look at the bullpen, 1b, C, infield defense, Pedro, Ollie, our .185 avg in LF, and 2b before we mention our (at worst) 4th best player.
Is he worth the 18 million? Probably not. But he’s not the problem.
Probably Not???
Excellent point and exactly what I was thinking when Beltran was 3 &2. He has been pressued to swing instead of taking a shot at a walk like he usually does. I wouldn’t be too far off saying that many of his “watched ” third strikes were actually balls.
I don’t know why Church didn’t play but I certainly wish he had.
Santana looked great!
Pressured??–From who??
Pressure from himself, his fans. Written stuff tends to get to the players (witness Reyes).
This myth about Beltrans propensity to strike out looking is written about often. While he does strike out looking I do believe that most are balls that are called strikes. The guys walks more than his share…an indicator of patience and a good eye.
fongulalou, how long have you been watching? I thought one of the most telling, and least commented on, things about Willie’s departure was when he threw Beltran under the bus — he was recapping his managerial career, and included something like “Game 6, when Beltran didn’t take the bat off his shoulder.” No wonder Beltran’s looked happier with him gone.
He knows how to hit, but he’s not impervious to outside opinion — how many of us would be? So his trust in his judgment has been undermined, and he swings when he shouldn’t.
Brilliant, pitching to Victorino with 1st base open and the #8 hitter on deck.
That is wat the mets bullpen does, give up runs!!!!! u guys adress the starting pitching with johan but ur bullpen just sucks as ever!!
Where as the phillies got new people in their bullpen that kick teams butts and is the best in the legue!!
we adress the bullpen that way if our starters give up 2-5 runs in a game, we can comback thanks to the fact that our bullpen kept us in!!
mets, ur season is over just go home right know
i would sugest to get all new people on ur team u guys suck anyway!!!!
I agree with bringing Duaner Sanchez into the game. A tired pitcher has a tendency to hang sliders or leave changeups high in the zone . A mistake like that to Howard or Burrell ends the game on one pitch and if there was one way I didn’t want to lose this game it would be on a cheap wall scraping CBP to that fat lug Howard. At least Duaner made them get two hits. Hopefully Maine comes up big.
CBP Home Run I meant to say.
2 run lead. You can say it was only a 2 run lead, and that Santana needs a bit more run support from his team in order to have a better chance of guiding his teammates to victory.
And while I have supported Santana from day one, always stating that I believed that he had had many more very good games than bad ones, I’m getting a bit tired of ALL Mets pitchers handing back leads one they are given to them.
And quite frankly, Mr. Ace Santana has been just as big a culprit of this as anyone else on this staff.
We can talk all night and day about how bad a job this offense is doing with regards to manufacturing runs and stranding runners in scoring position. We know this! but since when has it become acceptable for a pitcher who is supposed to be the ace of the staff, to not be able to hold a 2 run lead?
I know this isn’t 1974, and I know that most final scores are rather bloated. But this guy is a 2-time Cy Young winner. He is being paid a king’s ransom to be the Ace, to be the stopper, to be the guy who can be counted upon to pick up his offense when the offense can not come through.
Even the best in history gave up leads. Nobody is perfect and I don’t want people jumping down my throat because they think I’m pounding on Santana. Fact is that he has been doing this much too often as of late, and this game was just the latest example of the ace of the staff not being able to keep the other team in check when he was given a slim lead.
Bottom line: if other former Cy Young greats who’s plaques now hang in the Hall of Fame could step up their game and pitch 8 innings of scoreless or 1-run ball in order to secure a win for their team, so should Santana.
I don’t want to harp on Santana either but the fact is he still had TWO OUTS before the Phillies scored. Where’s the bulldog mentality to get out of that jam?
That said, this is all on the offense. You can’t have your 1-5 hitters go 1-17 and expect to win.
well would u look at that
bangin on ur best pitcher because u guys suck!
who u guys gonna blame next? Randolph oh thats right hes gone and u guys still suck!!
see u next year
phillies r division champs!!
first of all the year is not over so lets not make rash predictions.second of all what are you doing in this forum anyway?your kind of alone here just in case you didnt notice.
Amen. Say has the granny he coughed up to that AL pitcher landed yet?
actually, it barely cleared the fence. but nice try.
good to see everyone hating on santana. the guy’s top 5 in almost every pitching category in the NL and you losers still find a way to rip on him. you DO realize that NO ONE has ever had an ERA of 0.00, right? 8 IP, 2 ER against the PHILLIES in citizens bandbox is ace stuff, and if you don’t think so then you’re clueless.
I guess you don’t know how to read. I am not slamming the guy.
Here wait… let me spell that out for you since you are obviously a complete dolt:
I…
a – m…
n – o – t…
s – l – a – m – m – i – n – g…
t – h – e…
g – u – y.
In fact, I do believe I said the following in my above statement:
“Even the best in history gave up leads. Nobody is perfect and I don’t want people jumping down my throat because they think I’m pounding on Santana.”
So stick your 0.00 ERA comment up your rear.
What I and everyone else here should expect from a 2-time Cy Young winner, and bonafide ace of the staff is to hold a 2-run lead at least once in a while. Because sometimes you just gotta pick up your offense when they are not doing right by you!
And you especially don’t give those runs back IMMEDIATELY after your team scored them. How many times did we all destroy Trachsel for doing that? Remember that? And how bout every other starter on this staff doing that on a fairly regular basis?
Since when is the pitcher infallible? What? 2-run lead not good enough? Maybe if they paid their pitchers say… 40 mil per, then they could scratch out the extra effort in order to win a game 2-0 or 2-1.
God forbid!
Barely cleared the fenced!? That home run went off the scoreboard!
to blame this on santana is jive guy!–a good team
w/ a rook-SP on the ropes & the likes of Durbin &
Madsen behind him has GOT to score runs!—
johan gave-up 2 RUNs to a team w/thw last 3MVPS
@ home in a band-box. COME-ON!
i don’t care about your BS little disclaimer you wrote, because you completely contradicted it throughout your post: “And quite frankly, Mr. Ace Santana has been just as big a culprit of this as anyone else on this staff.”
That isn’t slamming the guy? Really? Who’s the dolt here again? I’m pretty sure it’s the guy who’s trying to pin this loss on Santana. That’s you, right?
Face it: our offense is a complete joke. If all they can muster is TWO RUNS against a JOKE of a pitching staff in the epitome of a hitter’s park, it doesn’t matter who pitches. santana shut down the loaded phillies offense and our offense couldn’t help him out.
Next time you try insulting my intelligence, try learning a little bit about baseball. You clearly stopped playing after tee-ball. Get a fcking clue, buddy.
Amazing.
Oh well. This is what I get for talking to a bunch a children not old enough to remember when (or maybe were not even alive to witness) true greatness when “Aces” went 8-9 innings and held up slim leads in order to win games 1-0 or 2-1 (etc).
Guess I’m way off base to expect a 2-time cy Young winner to actually be able to win a 2-0 game. God forbid I look past his line for the night and expect that maybe once in a while he (and like I said, EVERY OTHER METS STARTER) not go out there and give back the runs that they were just given.
God forbid.
jesus christ you’re pathetic. if you’re whining about a guy giving up 2 runs in 8 innings to one of the best offenses in the majors, i don’t know what to say to you. you clearly just don’t know anything about baseball.
Jesus Christ?!? Where?
I love that guy! Seriously, how can you not love a guy who takes a few nails in the wrists and feet for our sins?
That’s just so clutch! The J-meister rocks, bro!
Now let’s all hold hands and pray for metsftw’s brain tumor to shrink. Because only then will he stop acting like a complete tool.
Well… at least we can hope.
you are so weird. wowwww. i’m probably 500 miles away (at least) from you and i’m so creeped out.
Thank the all mighty for that! Last thing I want is for what ever bug is crawling up your hole to escape and get anywhere near me.
Now step away from the computer, go outside, breath in deep, and try your best to get a life.
Trust me. You’ll thank me!
pretty sure my social life utterly destroys yours, but okay. keep reminiscing about the old days, creepy old man.
I hate watching this team….they win 1, they lose 1, they win 1, they lose 1…….it’s killing me.
Is 2 wins in a row too much to ask.
So are you still doubting this is a .500 team?
I never did.
It’s a pathetically .500 team.
At this point I’d be happy if we got to .500.
no there not a .500 team
there a below .500 team, along with anyother team besides the phils in the division ad that includes the marlins!!!!
Like the cliche’ goes, he pitches just good enough to lose.
I hate to say it but it’s true. We need a HUGE GAME from Maine tomorrow. Perez pitches Sunday, God only knows what you are going to get from him and Pedro pitches Monday and I have ZERO confidence in him right now.
we will get swepped
if we get swept, will they finally fire omar and bernazard?
Amen anrst. Both Minaya and Bernazard need to be fired.
if omar should be fired then john ricco should be the gm. this guy get things done quickly.
Forget Ricco, what about Krivisky.
Never happened!–Thanks to Sonny Boy Wilpon &
his love of the Don & his D.R.Mafia crew!
Don O has ATLEAST 1 more off season & MGR
move in him w/ownership. What w/the new park opening next yr. & all. He’ll tell ownership some
moves need to be made & w/50+Mil$ coming off
the books he’ll be granted the chance to sign a few
more aged,injured lat*n homeys who displayed no
leadership skills as well as a couple wash-out back-ups whos best seasons were back in the 20th
century.Maybe he’ll even get the chance to trade off
the few good propects we have for a platoon Catcher and/or OFer!?
either ricco or krivisky would be better.
can we purge anyone from the red sox front office? They must have some up-and coming execs who know how to run an organization.
Hire Gerry Hunsicker!
They’ll fire Omar and make Bernazard the gm.
because the baseball gods hate us.
if u guys get swept it will be the end of the line 4 the mets crap piles they got sippin beer and watchin their team fall 8 games back!!!
truth hurts….. take some pain killers
Could have really used alou tonight, ohh i forgot he’s never coming back. hey its ok i’m sure by the end of july he’ll be back better than ever, and we’ll be 9 games out of first. We should rest church tommarow night as well, chris aguilla is the savior.
Bring up fmart already, he’s only been mashing in AA, give the fans something to watch at least. We need another bat, he can’t be any worse than throwing guys like aguilla out there everyday.
This continues and the phils win the series, both us and the yanks will have something in common come next week, we’ll both be done.
by the way the stat they just showed on SNY, 2.48 era in santana’s last 6 starts for us, but we are 0-6. look no further than that when were trying to figure out why were no in the playoffs come end of the year. If were at least 3-3 in those games were prob only only somewhere around 3 games out right now.
We didn’t have Alou back today but hey, at least Church will be well rested for the Giants series coming up. Why should we play ALL our horses against the Phillies, it’s only still July. More important to have all our Millionaires well rested.
“Could have really used alou tonight”
Correction.
Could really have used a B-52 to fly overhead while the Phils were on defense, carpet bomb the field, and have the game called in the Mets favor because the entire starting line-up of the Phillies had been decimated.
Apparently that’s the only way the Mets will beat this club when it counts most.
I don’t think they could even beat the Phillies ASHES.
when doesn’t beating the phillies count?
Sarcasm my friend, look it up.
nothing sarcastic about that post. you may want to look it up, friend.
now thats MY style mets fan
Could have used the Rabbi? For what? Delgado low on
Geritol? and FMart? I’ve seen the kid in person the last 2
yrs and he’s not even close.
i am sure F Mart will be here before the season is over, he’ll be rushed up soon enough so Omar can say ‘ see, there’s at least one prospect we’re developing’
I’m tired of watching this 2008 team. I had high hopes for them, but am not going to invest more time or energy watching this lethargic bunch of losers…
How can anyone say the season is over. On this day one year ago, The Yanks were two games under .500, the Rockies were one game under, and both the Cubs and Phillies were one game over. None were in first. All made the playoffs.
this team is so dreadful. might as well hope for the sweep. maybe it forces them to do something. cut delgado. trade beltran.. please do. get a prospect. fire omar. maybe we can pray for a strike
Those teams had young, hungry players. Not a geriatric home of underacheiving players. I hope I’m wrong about this team but what evidence has shown us they are going to turn it around.
The Yanks of Jeter, A-Rod, Giambi, Clemens, Abreu, etc. were a team of hungry young players?
In the second half they had an infusion of Hughes, Chamberlan, Kennedy but I should have added another adjective, clutch. The Rockies, Phillies, Cubs and Yankees always found a way to come back from deficits.
Bart I usually agree with your posts, but what have you seen from this team that makes you think it is a playoff team? Is the offense all of a sudden going to “wake up” and hit consistently, I just don’t see it.
this is a team of mercenaries
I am going to the game on Sunday and I’ll be cheering for this team but they just are not playing like a playoff team. I hope they turn the season around but I have doubts. They just can’t seem to consistently play well. When they pitch well they don’t hit.
the team should forget about playing like a playoff team and focus on playing like a good regular season team that can actually win games constantly.
Trade Beltran for Carlos Gomez….
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Hey, it’s simple. The better team won tonight. I know it hurts to admit that, but you can’t just walk around in constant denial. Last year was not fluke, the Phillies are NL Division Champions because they are just a better team. I mean come on, we had Aguila starting in LF against the team in first place who we are trying to catch. Does that make sense to anyone on this blog?
Amen!–seeing this team daily for two yrs now, the illies
are just a better team!–Not more talent but guts,heart
whatever you want to call it! not to mention better coaching
staff and a GM with a plan!
blowing that big of a lead (something that had NEVER been done before) wasn’t a fluke? yeah, okay.
I’m done, can’t take it anymore. I’ll check back in August 1, if they
don’t make any trades to improve I’ll be back in the spring. This
is without a doubt the most frustrating Met team I have ever
watched, I bleed blue and orange but tonight, I bled out.
I hear you, me too. Changes need to be made and made fast if they REALLY do want to make a run this year for the play-offs. If not, then we need to unload all the dead weight and acquire some young prospects and think about 09 & 10′ and beyond.
I am die hard met fan, go to every saturday game, have my car met up, my house and my kid. But i have to say…..since I have been a fan this is the first met team I hate. I try to stay positive, but its wearing thin. a very very small part of me wants them to get swept to put me out of my misery. This loss wouldnt bother me as much if I thought they could win 2 of the next three, but most likely they will win only 1.
Why was Church out of the game? Why the hell does Moises need to play a “rehab” game in AAA…..just call the guy up. At least we get 1 more game before he goes on the DL again.
All good points about Alou and Church. It’s obvious they don’t consider these ‘Must Win” games because if they did, they play ALL the horses instead of giving players ‘Rest Days” and dumb “Rehab” games. Aren’t the Phillies the team we’re chasing?
there really is no reason to watch, no reason to post about them. this team is a lifeless, unpleasant collection of passionless, aging players. nice going omar. have fun with steve phillips on sportscenter next year
As long as Jeff Wilpon keeps calling the shots, this team is going nowhere.
Perhaps the one post that cuts to the heart of everything that is wrong with this team. Best post of the night.
I know this has been said by several fans but Carlos Beltran consistently swings at bad pitches and takes very hittable pitches with the bat on his shoulder. He does this over and over again. This team is a .500 team at best and with Castillo, Delgado, no left fielder, and a very undependable relief core.
You got that right. This team is boring.
This is such a tough time to be a Mets fan, try to hang in there with me my fellow met fans.
I hate to break it to you but Beltran happens to be the best overall CF in the game.
Methead you are dead on. How can you root for Beltran, Delgado, Castillo, and there like. There are only a few guys I like on this team: Reyes, Wright, Church, Easley, Castro.
+1
This team is poorly conceived and it becomes more and more evident each day. It pains me to say it, but we had our chance in 2006. It’s now time to rebuild around Wright, Reyes, Church, Beltran, Johan and Maine. Who cares about the rest.
pelfrey too.
Also, I think it’s obvious that the problem is not the coaches, but instead the players and the man who put the team together- Mr Minaya.
Quid pro quo, yes or no? Pity about poor Omar though, tick tock, tick tock, tick tock…
Now your coming around!–I was crushed on this blog
all winter & spring then banned for my civil knocking
of the teflon don omar!-looks like thealou&castillo moves
not so good huh?
Amen to that.
This IS Omar’s mess.
Yes he acquired Church and Santana.
1.BUT he also gave Castillo a STUPID 4 year deal
2.relied on old players like Alou, ElDuque and Pedro
3. Did nothing to strengthen the bench
4. did nothing to strenghen the bullpen(Chad Wise -please!!)
5. Did nothing acquiring a real hitter-instead continues to shuffle-Nixon, Phillips, Aquila etc etc. while this shiaty offense continues to flounder and kill us on most nights.
It’s Matt Wise, not Chad.
Sorry Chad wise was a UCONN guard.
But I hope you get my point.
The only talent hes shown which separates him
from the run-of-the-mill GM is his ability to spend
money. You look at a GM like Ken Williams and his
responseto the whitesox awful season and w/3 moves
turned them around–Swisher,Cabarera&Ramirez.
Think about what those 3 cost them. Contrast & compare to any 3 major moves made by The Man of
Teflon from East Elmhurst.
the problem since the middle of last year is reyes, wright and brltran….the rest are role players and these 3 sucks, I know Wright escapes all criticsim for some reason…and so does beltran, im sick of it…try blaming Willie and Castro for this game…Wright and Beltran suck
wright has 66 RBI, 4th most in the NL….
Wright has not been super clutch like in years past but he is not to blame. I cant stand softee Beltran but its not all his fault when you have Delgado behind you. The problem with this offense is its missing a true hitter in the middle of the lineup or in our case a pair of good hitters – CHURCH and MOISES. Without both of these guys to make up for the drop off of Delgado, we are en empty lineup.
wright escapes all criticism because he’s the best player on the team and has an .890 OPS without even hitting that well. if you think he sucks, please stop watching the mets. actually, stop watching baseball.
You seem to enjoy telling people what to do. Maybe YOU should stop watching baseball?
Apparently it brings out the dooshbag in you. But then again, I’m thinkin that’s been there all along.
Never mind. Continue on, Lord Dbag.
stop following me around. are you one of those creepy 50 year olds who comes to the park and watches the children play? yikes.
Beltran is NOT a pressure player.
He should be utilized as a #2 hitter where he would thrive(like he did in Houston), batting #3 or #4 kills this guy you can see it-especially with no help behind him.
Bat him #2 ahead of Wright-this would be the best spot for him and the team.
Its not even the loss. Its a tough loss and you cant win them all. I am not mad at santana or Duaner. The problem really is, a loss here puts more pressure on this lifeless pathetic team which will lay down the next 3 games as a result.
We need moises and church in the lineup. PERIOD. The presence makes a huge difference. Isntead one is resting and the other is in a rehab game. Are ya kidding me?? Moises does not need a rehab game, either he can play or he cant. Pathetic.
Three reasons why why why:
Why did Manuel take out santana?
Why did Manuel let Sanchez pitch to the flyin hawaiian?
Why did Manuel pinch hit for Castro(who was 2 for 3) he could have let Church PH for Aguila instaed of Marlon(.200) Anderson.
these are minor details which may or may not have cost us the game. The problem is this lifeless offense.
They are not minor. Each point could easily have gone the other way to at least keep the game alive.
No need to pull Castro
No need to pull Santana w/95 pitches
And no need to pitch to Victorino-Feliciano was up in the bullpen to pitch to Dobbs if need be.
Feliciano of 2008 would have either hit the next batter or walked him.
you forgot we don’t have a LF b/c of Omar. And we don’t have a power arm in the bullpen either, thanks to Omar again.
i mean, a power arm from the right side
I agree. I just listed those comments afew relies up^^^^
No-No all winter/Spring 90% of the posters here believed a 42y/o who’d already missed 900+ gms in
his career could be counted on the protect our 37y/o
1B-man who was/is clearly on the downside of his
career AND these 2 would hit AFTER our 2B who has
the knees& hips of a man twice his age.
AGain, great planning Don O!
Why cant beltran get a big base hit for a $100,000,000.00
Oh yeah, I know hes not playing for money like he was
during his last month in Houston!
Can we please Fire Omar please. How does this guy keep his job, he has done an AWFUL JOB.
How did Isiah keep his job all those years? Answer one and you might have an answer for the other.
because people thought an ex-basketball player would automatically be able to run an NBA team?
Same reason ownership has fallen for his jive-talking
nonsense!
i know whay’r’sayin’.
I know Two By Four, bad ownership is the answer. Which the Wilpons can definetly fall into that category.
I wouldn’t say he’s done an awful Job, Brian Sabean has done an awful job. Omar has been okay. not great, not bad, but okay.
we need to be Sellers, no buyers at the trade deadline… if we can get at least mid-level prospects for the following, then the season won’t be a total waste. Omar should put these guys on the market now (but I’m sure he won’t b/c his job hinges on this season)… these guys could have some marginal value to a contender:
Schowenweiss
Heilman
Feliciano
Sanchez
Perez
Easly
Castro
Delgado
Chavez
… bring on the mid-level prospects.
“… bring on the mid-level prospects.”
maybe if we trade all of them for the one mid-level prospect.
Although for what it’s worth, I’d put Schneider on the block instead of Castro, I think he’d have more value. There are teams with strong offenses that could use a great defensive catcher.
Problem is this team is way to complacent. They win one game, feel good about themselves and lose any type of killer instinct the next day. How else can you explain having winning records against the phillies, marlins, yankees, angels. Splitting with st louis, yet losing series to teams like the rockies, nationals, and mariners. We complained about it under willie as well. Its not the manager. Its the players.
Also i agree with you anrst.Whether we end up making a run this season or not its clear we need some upgrades at some key positions in the offseason. I just pray that omar doesn’t make any stupid desicions come the deadline just to save his job.
Like for example trading fmart. That would mean we would have traded 3 of our outfield prospects within a year. I dont want to turn into the yankees recent years, sell every prospect we have. Thats not the way to build a team now right now, we need to get younger. Alot of teams are doing this.
If come the trade dealine were 8 games out, we should be sellers. No sense in making a desperation deal like we did with Kazmir, we are what we are, and that is a team around 10 game below .500 the past year and a half.
The wilpons don’t need to worry. Doesn’t matter if we make the playoffs or not, we’ll have money to spend in the offseason, we might have a new coach. These are selling points, citifield will sell tickets no matter what.
Those tickets are sold already!–Hence the lack of urgency!
The Wilpon’s are still concerned with SNY ratings since it translates directly into ad revenues. Additionally a good team playing in a brand new ballpark enhances the image of the Mets.
Even though Beltran didn’t come through in the clutch today I really can’t find myself criticizing him. I firmly believe he is being mis used. He is NOT a 4 hitter and I don’t understand why they keep batting him cleanup. Our main problem is that we relied on Delbumo returning to 06 form and it’s just not happening. We also relied too heavily on a 40+ year old Outfielder who needs to be covered in bubble wrap. So I can’t blame Beltran… how can you? He’s being forced to bat 4th when he should hit 2nd or 3rd and he has NOBODY behind him.
PLEASE!–When you pay a guy 100+Mil even in this day and
age he should be the centerpiece!-STOP ALREADY!
The reason he got over paid was because of his tear up in the playoffs. Yes I agree he is over paid, but he is NO WHERE NEAR as big of a waste of money as other people the mets have gotten.
Alou 16mil lit on fire for 2 years.
Castillo 25mil lit on fire
Delbumo the 30mil for 07 and 08 thats lit on fire
Need I remind you of Mo Vaugh and Roberto Alomar?
Atleast Beltran has contributed during his tenure with the mets and has had some clutch moments. It’s not like he fails in every single spot. And he does play spectacular defense. I can’ t stand how people want him to be traded…
this team cannot string together back to back to back hits at all instead it is always a hit, then an out and then another hit with no runs scored. there is no consistency in this lineup at all. this team cannot even put a freakin ball in play when you need it to score a runner from third. somehow, it is either a pop up or a strike out. these are the basic elements that is preventing this team from going on a nice run.
Check out the Mets’ and Phils’ records exactly a year ago and you’ll discover they’re damn close to the inverse of now. Given that last year ended with the teams a game apart, and that all sorts of things can make a significant difference in records (anyone else noticed the Phils have basically flipped heads every time in the injury department this year while the Mets have flipped tails, which can’t keep happening?) if the Mets have any heart they can put themselves right back in the mix.
They’ve already shown–for the last calender year–
they have no heart!
THIS Mets team doesn’t have the balls to put a b*tch slapping on the Phils like they did to us last year.
The Mets have been under .500 for 1 1/2 years-why would it suddenly turn around with basically the same core of deadbeat players?
Don’t get me wrong I hope it does but I can’t come up with a scenario where it does.
These METS have a hard time winning 2 games in a row let alone 15 out of 20.
The Phillies just went through a terrible stretch during inter-league play and where are the Mets?
holy crap marlins lead rockies 17 – 16 in the 7th
wow, one really messed up game. every pitcher gave up runs.
Just think about next year its not looking to promising too many holes that need to be filled. After Santana,Maine,Pelfery who are your next two starters I dont see Perz comming back. you need a fisrt baseman and a left fielder. I dont see them paying the money Texieria wants plus I dont think hes a NY type of guy. The free agent market is not that great next year also.
firstbase: Joe crede
leftfield: Evans/ Murphy/ carp….. either one
starting pitcher: Jon Garland, jon Niese, and salvador aguilar
relief pitcher: eddie kunz
That doesn’t give me a lot of confidence. I’m hoping they sell at the deadline and maybe get some players that will help in 09.
Enough Santana bashing. He gave up 2 runs to the Phillies in CBP. That should be enough to win.
The Mets, especially our $17M man Beltran, need to start hitting and bringing runs. 3 against J.A. Happ shouldn’t be a lot to ask for.
no. not enough santana bashing. he’s getting paid a lot, so that means he isn’t allowed to make any mistakes. he must go 33-0 with a 0.00 ERA, otherwise he’s an overpaid lazy bum. and if david wright doesn’t hit .500 this year with 300 home runs, then he’s just an overrated pretty boy. beltran’s an overpaid bum because he isn’t batting 1.000 in “clutch” situations (NEWSFLASH: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CLUTCH HITTER).
i miss the old days, where players would play with broken legs, arms and ribs and still OPS .900. “aces” all had 0 ERA’s and NEVER gave up leads.
please, this season was over a long time ago…believe that
J.A Happ R.A.Dickey is it something with guys with initals that we just cant hit LOL
Here is another set of initals for you:
N.O. Playoffs
Also can someone PLEASE give Ramon Castro a firstbaseman’s mitt????? The way Delbumo plays first at this point we are better off just benching him against lefties and throwing in Castro at first. Hes not going to be great but I think even he could bend his dam hip down a few inches to reach for a ball.
Not happening. That makes too much sense.
ramon and bending down = a long DL vacation.
I think playing 1st base would be a lot better for his health then catching. Why not give him a shot!
the more things change, the more they stay the same:
santana = frank viola
beltran = mcreynolds
castillo = alomar
delgado = mo vaughn
reyes = jefferies
church = gilkey
wright = hojo
It’s the curse of the Mets pinstripes.
Don’t forget:
Baerga=Castillo
they were both great and they come here and they are bums.
did you just compare jose to greg jefferies?
santana to viola?
what is going on with this blog
Yeah, Santana did more than his job. He did what was asked for him.
Since his place in the order didn’t come up in the 9th, I probably would have left him in for the 9th. . .
The team does need to hit better. 1-8. Not just Beltran or Delgado, etc. With one out and Reyes at 3rd, Wright needs to get Reyes in (weren’t people crapping on Beltran for the same thing in the Cardinals series?).
It won’t make an sort of long lasting impact, but I still think HoJo needs to be reassigned within the organization and they need to find a different hitting coach with a different mind set. . .
A new hitting coach is not going to make Beltran hit in the clutch or help Delgado turn on an inside pitch or give Castillo back his speed and 2 good knees.
The hitters are the problem-they are unfortunately what they are-NOT CLUTCH!!
Rick Down wasn’t the problem either just like HOJO isn’t the problem.
Blame Omar for assembling this group and not moving quick enought o make changes when necessary.
But if people are willing to fire Wiliie because they thought he was the reason the team was underperforming, why not do the same with Howard Johnson, who has even less of a reason to be a hitting coach then Willie did being a manager.
I careless of Johnson was a Met. He has no business doing what he is doing.
Beltran wasn’t brought in to be clutch (if there is even a such thing). He was the beginning of trying to set a new frame of mind in Queens. And he did, along with Pedro. The guys that need to be clutch are Wright – he and Reyes – are the cornerstones. Beltran is the supporting cast ala a Scottie Pippen.
Jeez. Once again, Santana is stuck at seven wins. I hate the fact that the only way he can get wins now is if he pitches a complete game shutout.
dude, didn’t you know? aces are supposed to have 0 ERA’s, because…they get paid a lot of money.
d-bag alert
Even if he threw 9 shut out innings theres no guarentee they would score the 1 run that would let him win.
Shut outs are hard to come by in Citizens Park-where a regular fly ball goes out.
Johan did his job the offense again did not do theirs!!
i actually wonder if that’s why santana was swinging like that when he was up with the bases loaded….he was pressing to get the runs himself since he’s had such poor run support. I don’t blame him for that, but Jerry should have had the take sign on with that pitcher not throwing strikes.
Fire Willie!–Thats the answer!
oh wait, we already did that.
Fire Jerry!
Fir Omar!
it’s time to break up this pathetic team. Beltran has been a MAJOR disappointment. today 2-0 count he looks at 2 fastballs down the middle, then strikes out on ball 4. Trade him get a some major prospects play Endy in center bring up FMart for left. I would trade anyone but Wright, Reyes, Pelfrey, Maine. Would trade Santana BUT no one would take him. He’s been very good BUT NOT an ACE. We need some players with “fire” this team plays too passive. OH yeah get rid of Minaya and his “crew” and Fred, please find another job for Jeff.
You are ridiculous and a typical horrific Mets fan. Throughout history the Mets fan: 1) initially demands that the manager is fired and 2) wants to trade all of the players, 3) complains about 1 and 2 for 10 years as “bad moves” once they actually happen. You were probably in the crowd that was glad that Bobby Valentine was fired and was also happy when they got rid of Jeff Kent.
these are the guys u let walk next year:
pedro, duque, wise, anderson, delgado, alou, easley
you attempt to trade:
heilman, shoenweiss, castillo, schneider and billy wagner
then you try to get some sort of hot deal for Beltran….his ups are not worth his downs….
you keep endy, tatis, reyes, wright, church, castro, pagan, duaner
then you sign: O-Dawg, K-Rod, Garland
You obviously have no desire to have a good bullpen. Trading Beltran would put a nail in the coffin of this organization. Because he doesn’t hit .330 like everyone, for some ridiculous reason, expects, he is a very solid batter and a spectacular fielder. Maybe he is not worth the $17 million/year that he gets, but I can think of many players with the same salary or greater (Giambi, Furcal, Jeter) who I wouldn’t rather have on my team right now.
jeter at beltran’s age doesn’t SHIIT the bed every single important at bat…..he gets it done……beltran is not terrible, but id rather the prospects or MLB talent he could net as opposed to his contributions to the team.
and obviously when u TRADE PLAYERS, you get guys back, like heilman and shoe for Fuentes…..You also can bring up eddie kunz next year……you still have armas, vargas, feliciano and joe smith……..
tatis has shown he is more clutch than anderson, delgado, and beltran……id like him on my bench thank you……pagan is perfect for left field b/c you can’t spend money on a big contract for that position when FMart will be here in a year or so…….
Pagan and Tatis are untouchable in your mind? Please. I’m so glad you aren’t the GM.
i agree, and pagan isnt even on the roster
we can spend all the money we want, we’re the mets
why is everyone picking on beltran, he is not the problem, the guys is on pace to drive in 100 rbi for the season. the problem is that 3 guys(wright,reyes,beltran) cant do it all the time. the mets win when one of these guys have a big day. we have to get a power rbi man
would u people be happy with this bullpen?:
armas or vargas as the long men
feliciano and smith lefty righty specialists
duaner 7th inning / 8th inning
kunz 6th inning / 7th inning
fuentes 8th inning
krod closer
all colorado wants is heilman and shoe for fuentes
krod is a free agent and indications are the Angels dont want to spend the money he is looking for…..
on top of this, you trade a 37 year old closer who no long throws 97-100, but 94-96, before his final year……and get some prospects in return…
interesting concept
you are talking about the bullpen and our main problem is the offense….??
scroll up and read or re-read the first post. They look rather equal in severity to me, and not just against the Phils.
and how about this lineup:
reyes
chavez
hudson
wright
crede
church
fmart
castro
pitcher
i’ve gotta believe this team will suck it up and send castillo packing when it comes down to it. i really don’t like endy starting, but the o-dog is exactly what this team needs
a pagan chavez platoon would be fine…..look at the redsox, ellsbry and crisp do fine, and i think endy and pagan could be similar…..
where is beltran?
we won’t get much for most of the guys on this team, at least the ones i’d consider trading.
people hate beltran, but ask yourself this and answer honestly: who can we get that’s better? don’t say shane victorino because he has “grit” or “hustle”. i value those qualities, but come on.
has beltran been bad lately? yes, but i’m expecting him to bounce back. tonight was a bad loss, really bad, i can’t stand the phils.
for those that want to trade johan, get over it. tonight he was great and for whatever reason jerry pulled him. 2 runs over 8 at that little league park is a job well done. he hasn’t been perfect, but his era is lower than his career marks for the first half of the year.
the guy they should look to trade if they fall way back by the deadline is wagner. he’d bring back a solid return and they can sign k-rod in the off season.
on a different note, i’ve decided to go mets-free for the next week, or at least attempt to do so. every time they lose a game like this, i realize that i’ve only managed to waste 2.5-3 hours that in the end frustrate me. that’s being a mets fan, but at the end of the day, it isn’t our job to win, just to support.
don’t let it stress you out, maybe take those 2-3 hours and do something productive for yourself. i’m gonna try for a week, because this team that i love, this team with so much talent just keeps killing me, and while i hold out hope, i need a break from them, as i think we all do.
never thought the all-star break would be beneficial to a fan base
and this staff:
Santana
Garland
Maine
Pelfrey
Perez if we can sign him for under 15 mil
it is better off if we cut ties with perez.
how about:
santana
maine
garland
pelfrey
jon niese or salvador aguilar or bobby parnell
and a bench of pagan, tatis, endy, mike carp, schneider
all the while you will have flooded your minor leagues with prospects, good ones too, to go along with the new ones we’ll get from the free agents leaving, and ike davis and reese havens……then you HAVE some chips to trade AND guys to develop
With Beltran’s contract, and his no trade clause, we’re probably not going to get an amazing deal for him. Unless you get above average players who will be able to contribute in 09 or 2010, which I really doubt, it wouldn’t be worth it to trade him.
Duaner most definitely should have pitched around Victorino with a guy on second and the 8 man up. Omar has made some questionable moves, bottom line is we just don’t have a Burrel or an Utley to scare the daylights out of a pitcher. I imagine that J-Man sat Church because he figured we could not mess up a game with what’s his name going for the Phils and our boy taking the mound. There cannot be any presumptions in the future if we actually want to win ballgames. Rest Church last night. Rest him for the whole damn Giants series. But you put him out there opening game of the biggest series of the season to date. Can you imagine what this group would look like if Church wasn’t busting his balls? He makes the rest of the team look bad. Except for Reyes and Wright (at the plate at least). We are all making good points, but it amounts to nothing, just more frustration and poor Mattie in the studio with no one watching post game highlights of another BS loss. Maybe the team just can’t stand each other.
and this is why you sell sell sell……..if i’m omar, right now i’d trade shoe and heilman for fuentes……..that move right there alone would help the bullpen for the next few years…..
TRADE WAGNER, not because he’s bad, but because he is GREAT, and you can get things for him, meanwhile signing a 26 year old who would EAT UP NYC in K-Rod…..
Every single negative minded person who has posted here should hang themself to remove thier genes from the genepool. I am so sick of the fair weather, fence jumping fans. Just please get rid of yourselves.
You don’t have to possess a negative mind to be frustrated or bothered by a loss, much less this loss. If we didn’t care, we wouldn’t be so pissed. If I didn’t think they could beat the snot out of the Phillies, even with Aguila in left, I wouldn’t be so pissed. But I agree, fence-jumpers should go, it might help with the traffic at Shea.
What is there to be postive about???
also, the number of free agents you are permitted to sign has to do with the number of free agents in the market…..
Can someone name me a better CF in baseball than Carlos Beltran? Off the top of my head I cannot and you people want to trade him???
My biggest knock on this game was Manuel not starting Church. This was hands down the biggest game of the year and Church has been one of the best players on this team. I don’t feel comfortable having Chris Aguila starting in our biggest game of the year. This move cost us the game because Endy Chavez would have had Werth’s single in his back pocket.
beltran may be an elite center fielder, but his skill set has no translated into helping our team win……he has underachieved here from the start, and instead of forcing the issue with a piece who, though he may be briliant, DOES NOT FIT, you should move on and look for a better fit FOR OUR TEAM.
He fits great.
Batting 2nd, as pretty much everyone here has said, over and over.
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Church
Easley
Delgado
Castro/Schneider
Endy
Pitcher
It’s not exactly a monster lineup, but with the way our rotation’s been going (very, very well, in case no one’s noticed) it’ll get the job done.
Throw Alou in there, and it becomes a pretty solid lineup.
Which is why I don’t understand why the coaching staff hasn’t made the change. I mean it seems obvious to everyone else in the world.
my friends, it is time for a trade…
I will give the Mets until July 20th which is a week after the All-Star break to get their act together. Otherwise, it is time to start making trades (Oliver Perez, Carlos Delgado, Aaron Heilman) and start making plans for the 2009 season. I am getting tired of watching the Mets yo-yo their way back and forth no matter how close they are to the Phillies in the standings. As it stands, the Mets record is 42-44 (.488) and are 5.5 games out of first place. They are also six games out of the wild card behind St. Louis, Milwaukee, Florida and the Dodgers. Now all of a sudden, you have trade rumors linking C.C. Sabathia to the Milwaukee Brewers (as long as it is NOT the Philadelphia Paperclips). The Mets will have some hard choices to make, but that clubhouse really lacks real leadership. Should the Mets not make the playoffs, it is time for a new manager (regime change) and no Tony Peña to lead the club. Either Mazzilli, Oberkfell or a coach outside of the organization.
You can’t trade Delgado. Nobody wants him.
Draw up any trade you want. Delgado for prospects, we pay his whole salary, whatever.
Now, drop Delgado from the deal. Teams would rather the straight cash he’s owed (what is it, 14 million?) than the player.
He has ZERO trade value. He’s staying unless we cut him.
If we end up with a new manager, Oberkfell.
I’m pretty sure this is Delgado’s last year on his contract so if we can put up with him this year, then we must change greatly for 09. Minaya made the mistake of not improving the team after 06 and again after 07. Instead, we resigned an aging post-prime Castillo for 4 years whom we’re stuck with unless we can somehow ship him away. That being said, how’s for the 09 opening day lineup. Reyes, Eckstein, Beltran, Wright, Bay, Church, Carp, Schneider. I don’t know how we’ll bring in Eckstein or Bay but its possibilities.
Forget about Eckstein and Bay for a minute… Realistically speaking, the Mets farm system is barely full. The Mets do not have the resources in the minor league system to use as trade bait… Same goes for the Phillies and the Yankees. Castillo should have been allowed to walk and sign that 3 year deal with Houston so the Mets could have had an extra pick in the 2008 MLB Draft and also, they would have been better served signing a stop-gap player at 2nd base, or trading for one. Delgado’s contract is up unless the Mets decide to pick up the $16M option for 2009 which contains some sort of buyout (no thank you, I’d rather give him a buyout). Carp may be tearing Double-A but he is still a year or two away. Right now, you have Church (pending his next concussion) and Beltran guaranteed in the outfield. Trading any of the three players (Heilman, Delgado, Perez) will allow you to fill some holes by pursuing players who are ready. Sabathia like Perez is a free agent. Although he dominates more than Perez, I suspect Perez can fetch a quality player or two.
The phillies actually do, they have to great pitching prospects that teams have supposedly been interested in. Plus they can afford to trade one of their of. It’s not going to be enough for someone like Sabathia but I would not be suprised to see them end up with Burnett or Bedard.
I understand that however, you just never know. If (and this is a BIG IF) Delgado’s bat catches hot fire pre-2006, then you can extract some type of trade value even if you have to pay some type of salary. If there is anyone who is in an envious position, it’s Billy Beane who has made some shrewd trades and seems to be taking other GM’s to the cleaners with the sole exception – John Schuerholz..
Who do you suggest plays first/second/left then? I agree with many of your points but so far no replacements have been seen. Bay seems a little farfetched but Eckstein is good for one more year or so but if Carp is not ready who do you have playing first?
Eckstein has already said he doesn’t want to move to second base. There’s really not a lot of options unless we shell out the 17 million a year Hudson is supposedly going to ask for. And considering his defense is about as bad as Castillo’s, and he’s going to be 31 himself, I’m not to excited about that option either.
Still can’t get over the fact we didn’t start church. Not only did it hurt us offensively, but if church is in right, that means endy is prob in left and gets to that ball aguila let drop in. Also endy could have thrown out chase utley at the plate on burrells single.
This reminds me of the series in philly a year ago, the first game of the series (august 27th) it was somebodies brilliant idea to start brian lawrence in citizens bank park, thus throwing the game away. As it turns out we learned you just don’t give games away like that against a division opponent by starting a guy that can’t top 84 with his fastball.
It’s time to face the facts. To put it simply, the Mets SUCK. They are a sub-par baseball team, and that is the truth. This four game series against the Phillies is a referendum on their ability, or lack thereof, to contend for a post-season berth (a much lower expectation now compared to the one at the start of the season).
Last night’s game was yet another glaring example of the Mets inability to perform on a consistent level, as they lost to their division rival despite having their best starting pitcher on the mound; in what on paper amounted to a gross mismatch. Even the great Johan Santana could not pick the Mets up, and carry them to victory. Yet again, one bad inning from Santana cost his team the lead, and ultimately the game.
Though their woeful offense is greatly to blame for this latest in a long string of heartbreaking defeats, Johan Santana has not pitched like the $126 million dollar ace that he was advertised to be; which is not to say that he has pitched poorly, but to say that he (like the rest of the team) has not done his job when it matters most.
For these reasons, and so many more, I have lost faith in the 2008 New York Mets.
“Johan Santana has not pitched like the $126 million dollar ace that he was advertised to be;”
That statement is illogical. Based on fact, he is pitching better than usual for the first half. You cannot count a lack of offensive support against him.
The offense has killed us for the better part of the year.
That’s why the mistakes by the starters and bullpen are so glaring.
Bottom line even at full health(which No One should have counted on coming into 2008) this was an ill conceived team.
Too many old players coming off bad years and injuries and zero back ups should the starting players slump or get hurst(as usual-Alou).
he stopped improving the team after he aquired Santana.
Again this is Omar’s mess.
One more move to make-FIRE OMAR!!
Can we also please stop with Mike Carp. There is a reason he has not been brought up yet. He is not a good defensive player! We do not need another poor defensive player on this infield.
Another argument against accountability for the players. I guess it’s Omar’s fault that Santana can;t make a lead hold up or that Beltran left 3 men in scoring position in the late innings, right? He should magincally have seen these things coming.
What is with people that always want someone fired? What is firing Omar going to do? Who is the new GM and how does he make these guys perform?
Stop whining about Omar, and Willie, and Jerry, and everyone else who never picks up a ball. The blame is with the players…perdiod.
Considering Santana has always been a second half player and that for the majority of his career Beltran has been a #2 or #3 hitter I kind of would have expected Omar to see this coming. Hell there were fans in here who saw this stuff coming back in January.
How is the story here pulling Santana? Why isn’t it that Santana always pitches well enough to lose? He had a 2-0 lead in the 6th. For $138MM…for ONCE…I want to see this guy make it hold up.
And honestly who cares? They could still be playing now and the Mets would not have scored. This team is a complete joke. They need to move to a sport where the objective is to fill the bases every inning and then not drive them in. Seriously, we could’ve played 19 innings without scoring. We made Chad Durbin look like Dennis Eckersley.
The ace against the rookie with one career start. We can;t win this one? GOOD. NIGHT. 2008 Mets.
Somebody needs to Santana he is not a hitter. He swung at two balls and cost himself a run!
“How is the story here pulling Santana? Why isn’t it that Santana always pitches well enough to lose? He had a 2-0 lead in the 6th. For $138MM…for ONCE…I want to see this guy make it hold up.”
C’mon!! Get real.
This is NOT the era where pitchers pitch complete games anymore. Going 7-8 strong innings is big enough. Bottom line…he pitched a great game yesterday. The offense failed us.
Equally ludicrous is blaming him for his at bat. If he has the green light then he’s going to try to help win his game like he’s done a couple of times this year.
WE NEED ANOTHER BAT. Santana is great and Beltran is great. Beltran has always been hot and cold but no one can field like he can and when he’s hitting…watch out.
Did I mention that without ANOTHER BAT we will not likely make the post season?
Even if you add another bat you’re then putting all your eggs in the Pedro/Perez/Pelfrey bat hoping that at least 2 of them can pitch well enough on a regular basis to give this team a winning chance and at least one of them can be counted on in the post season. Not to mention once we trade for one bat we’re likely not going to have the resources to add anything to the bullpen, and unless you’re saying they trade for a first or second basemen, which they won’t with those contracts, you’re still going to have that blackhole on the left side of the infield.
Basically, it’s not worth it, one bat isn’t going to magically fix this team. They’re better off trying to win with what they have until the deadline and then selling some spare parts for players who can contribute in 09 or 10.
the story is absolutely not only pulling santana (which if anything is being underplayed in the media today) but santana not demanding – demanding to remain in the game – instead of saying that he’s ‘fine’ with coming out of it – santana was the mets best option and only option to pitch the ninth – why wouldn’t he be????? what was the downside of leaving him in there?? it’s a monumentally stupid decision on so many levels that it’s had to believe Manuel tried to defend it – and had a miserable time trying to after the game. he simply could not defend the undefendable.
It seems like just about everytime the Mets play the Phillies, the Mets have the better starter going. The Phillies beat us by staying close and their bullpen shuts us down while they always score runs in multiple late innings.
Scoring runs in late innings is a sign of a good team. Despite their problems the Phils are still pulling games like this off. We could do the same with one more power/Risp hitter.
Beltran is just killing us. The truth is that we don’t have a clean up hitter. But sticking Beltran there is just wrong. He has no balls. He can’t hit in the clutch or with men on base. He left 5 men on base last night. He is one of only 2 or three mets that have a lower batting average with men on base than bases empty. (Others: Anderson and Chavez)
Player Bases empty Men on Base
Beltran 283 241
Church 255 370
Delgado 215 255
Alou 167 632
Castro 226 314
Wright 286 294
We should go with this line up
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Church
I hate to sound redundant, but this team is JUST NOT GOOD. The sooner people realize that and accept it, the less indigestion fans will get watching them play games like last night.
This team is not good at situational hitting and leaves too many runners in scoring position. i dont know what coaching can do to help, but ever since the end of 06, the clutch hits stopped coming and it makes it very difficult to expand/hold leads late in games.
as far as Santana, it is a function of going through the meat of the order for the fourth time, where the advantage should be to the hitter having seen all the pitches.
Rick Peterson has said it, and many other pitching coaches feel the same way: it is not a matter of macho or stamina to have a starting pitcher finish games, but rather a matter of statistics which say that a starting pitcher’s ERA is way higher the fourth time through a line up, which often comes in the 90-115 pitch range. statistically, it makes sense to bring in a high quality reliever like Sanchez, whose ERA should be lower facing hitters for the first time.
I am not a stat freak and believe that it all works out (see last night) but it is so often misrepresented why these moves are made. Starting with Ron Darling, who I like very much, continually describes it as babying the arms, while pining for the old days.
it is a matter of stats and whether we like it or not, going against the stats and losing is how people get fired
why do the mets never hit the opposing pen??
Don’t even get me started on Brad “Lights Out” Lidge. Retired us on 9 pitches. Madson and Durbin too. We had to hit off Durbin, WTF. I used to like when the Phillies bullpen was total trash and everyone and the Kansas City Royals could hit off of it.
Exactly, metsfanmurph – but one of the problems there in all of those 10 killer loses (You forgot to add opening day when we had a 2-0 lead off of Jamie Moyer, then Willie pulled Ollie in the middle inning and put in Show) is that the Phillies “ace starters” hold us to 2-3 runs, making it close.
I was at the game last night, and this really is no different from when I went in August of last year and Mota gave up the walk-off to Howard. But, I try to see the positive because I was excited about going all year long. Johan Santana was absoutely incredible, and he’s even more overwhelming in real life. I saw him throw a bit near the pen before the game, so that was really neat. Hopefully he’s a future hall of famer, a gamer, and a total workhorse. At the game, I had no idea he only threw 95 pitches, I would’ve sent him out there in the 9th inning. Johan did get into a bit of hot water, but the Phillies have the best offense in the league, and he contained in to two runs. He deserved this win,
But then, this goes back to the offense. Beltran and Wright had great chances to break this game wide open off of Cy Young-J.A. Happ and failed too. I was pretty pissed when I got to the ballgame and see our outfield consisted of Chris Aguila and Endy Chavez. Love Endy’s D, he played a nice game out in right, but seriously – he should’ve put Church in the whole game, not just the ninth inning. Though it was SO nice to see Church out in right, even just for one inning.. Ahhh.. Damn you Jerry! Put out a A+ line up for your ace, c’mon.
Though how awesome would it have been if Church actually threw out Feliz to end the 9th inning? Damnit, that place would have been dead silent.
These tough losses to the Phillies to come from via our bullpen. It was always Feliciano who was the culprit, but this time it was Dirty, which is ashame because he struck out Howard and Burrell really nicely, I didn’t expect Bum Feliz to get a double and Victorino (Who I’m really sick of, btw lol.) to score the winning run. But whatever, we can’t stop the “Philliahs.” Maybe the Marlins can or something, I don’t know.
This is nothing new, we just have to get used to it. This is who we are.
Just another frustrating loss to the Phillies. Is it me or do the Mets collapse vs. their division rivals. We always did well against the Braves. NOT!!!
Why wasn’t Church in the started lineup? Why didn’t Santana have a take sign TWICE? Why didn’t Santana start the 9th? You can see that the Phillies get up for the Mets and love beating them. How about some killer instinct when we have a guy on third with less than 2 out or the bases loaded with no out. Awful.
Omar, get rid of Beltran PLEASE. He just isn’t cut out for NY. .118 BA over his last 10 games. .250 over the last month. This is our cleanup hitter? C’mon, at least have Manuel move him in the lineup and give Church a shot of flip flop Beltran and Wright.
That’s the point, he’s not a cleanup hitter. A player just can’t turn into an RBI machine when he’s a typical number 2. Granted, he needs to put the ball in play a lot more, and stop getting ugly strikeouts.
I love the people gettting after Santana for 8 innings, 2 runs versus one of the most potent offenses in baseball i nthe ULTIMATE hitters park…get real, this is all on Wright and Beltran, as usual…Beltran is getting deeservedly crushed but for some reason Mets fans continue to coddle Wright, who has been by far the most DISSAPPOINTING of al lthe Mets…not the worst, not by far, but you knew delgado, castillo & pedro were aging…get a hit when it counts
david wright is tied in RBI with already annointed MVP Chase Utley……you are clueless
why wright and beltran? is it impossible the mets can win 3-2
??? why is it the mets have to score 8 runs to win…
BINGO!!! You hit the nail on the head. Why is it that we have to totally blow out the game with out offense to win???
Can we not string a few wins together before we say this offense has turned a corner and do we always have to waste 7 or 8 plus runs on one game and then dribble like old farts in losses the next 2???
what what what? wright gets all his hits in the first 3 innings, when its close and late he and beltran blow it every time, they are so un-clutch its unfunny, no Mets fan should ever crack on Arod, we have our own unclutch 3B
we dont need to blow anyone out, but most games this team cant score more than 2 runs…this is never the pitfchers fault, period, why do you expect we should win all 3-2 games, if they cant score more than 2 a game we will finish in 4th place, regardless of the pitching staff…you are clueless
Okay, so it’s been 13 hours… Just got our tickets for tonight’s game…braving the CLASSLESS Philly fans… trying to will our METS to a win… I wish the baseball gods would will us to WIN too just to shut up the man behind me last night who kept yelling PUKE at the top of his lungs and stomping his feet EVERY time Jose came up to bat. Even the Phillies fans next to us thought he was suffering from some kind of psychosis! LET’S GO METS!
Are you all maddddd. Johan needs to put up some freakin zeroes sometime!!!!! That is what an ace does…. Hold them to zeroes just once! If he does that we win. 137 mill…..come on can he just throw one shutout???? This guy is an above average pitcher, not a stopper!
i think he did that against arizona – that worked out well
I think we can learn from the Rays, who don’t have one stand-out player but are a YOUNG TEAM. They play defense at pitch, and clearly that has shown to win ball games. If our bullpen can secure a lead then there is no chance we can win.
Again how about a starter putting up freakin zeroes for a change. Especially the ace.
so the bloom is off the rose with that idiot manuel and his henny youngman one liner act….
he was a moron in chicago ,and the knock on him was constant switching of the lineup , constantly sending out sunday lineups..
and he’s clueless with his pitchers….
this was the biggest game all year and he had no right screwing with the lineup, aguilla had no buisness being in that lineup…. he should be the last guy off the bench……. he should have played his starting line up period….. aguilla was overmatched both in the field and at bat…
and his excuse of to much stress on santana is a joke…. that s why they pay him 140 mil….
Yeah but if your starter goes 6 with 2 runs. You’d hope that the pen can hold the lead for you.
why does it seem like the smart teams trade players away while they can get something good in return[they dont wait till the player gets older and suddenly loses bat speed or velocity.]
b/c they accept that sometimes you have to trade awway great players if they aren’t working on your team ::cough cough:: BELTRAN
Because our front office doesn’t want to accept they’ve made a mistake on a player or the team isn’t good enough until it smacks them in the face.
how about your 18 million dollar man learn how to take an at bat…..and i dont mean johan, i mean beltran and delgado……
yea ,cuz it was phillys 18 mil .man victorrino ,that drove home the single run to win it…
sorry boys baseball teams dont score 7 runs a night….. maybe it would be nice to win a close one…. no ….?.
how about a victorrino type getting a timely hit for the mets….. but i know only beltran and wright are allowed to get a timely hit..
beltran was the one up in situations that required the timely hit……SEVERAL TIMES…….he has 6 strikeouts in his last two games, and is 0-8
beltran is one of the streakiest players ever….. always was …… it’s nothing new..
and his streakiness is NOT worth it…..which is why you trade him.
hey … i had had my fill of mr.softee after 06…….i shed no tears for the most overated player on the team..
Exaclty right…..you cant score every night…that is why the freakin pitcher (ACE) needs to put up zeroes..
you would think our ace could dominate and outpitch durbin and happ…..
No, all we get is excuses for the “ACE”…….He did his job, we need to hit better, we need blah, blah blah,,,,,just freaking put zeroes up, you piece of crap waste of 137 mill!!!
jets i really don’t get you. let’s face the fact:
philly’s lineup is superior to ours, and that’s basically where i think their advantages end, or should end.
don’t tell me johan didn’t outpitch them. 8 innings of 2 run ball is his job. the offense should hit those 2 bit amateurs that philly rolled out there
gee jerry ,who’s exhausted tonite.????
but dont worry Omar is currently seeking bob the ”hammer” hamelin to make a comeback and play first for us.
Theres also a rumor that former pitching prodigy todd van poppel is comin back to lead us to victory!
i say jerry should rest wright , beltran ,church ,and delgado ….
keep em fresh for the games that really count…
“Yeah but if your starter goes 6 with 2 runs. You’d hope that the pen can hold the lead for you.”
What? Your ace should be able to at one time or another put up freakin zeroes……then when he has 95 pitches in 8 inn, he should go out in the freakin 9th…. These bunch of clowns are hard to watch. From the Gm down to the Manager and the players.
Gm is the leader clown BOZO
Manuel hes just a freakin idiot!
its time for new blood! trade ollie and beltran .
THIS TEAM NEEDS AN ENEMA!!!!!!!!!!!!
i know what were missing trot nixon and his grit……
god i had a few laughs at all the clowns on here buying into trot the savior…….
I wonder what we could get for beltran?Anybody need a cf?
Why the hell are they leaving pascucci in N.O……these guys stats are incredible….I’m no pascucci apologist, but the way this group of garbage is playin, I rather see him then this crap..
But think about it if there was one mets player you could trade who would it be?
SAntana
carlos beltran b/c we could get something valuable for him….
beltran
perez
sanchez
hielmann
feliciano
smith
Wagner because I think he might get the best package back. Or maybe Church because I’d worry he might start to regress back to his career norms and his value may never be higher than it is now.
I’d rather keep Church and have him play like garbage than trade away another superstar talent. Someone actually comes to Shea and overachieves and you’d trade him?
I’d rather trade someone who’s overachieving for a great package then wait till he’s at his lowest value like we usually do. It’s obvious this team isn’t going anywhere the way it’s configured and with our sorry excuse for a farm system there’s not much help on the way. If we want to improve any time soon we’re going to have to make real trades, we can’t expect to only trade the players playing like crap and get back anything that’s going to help.
I mean I understand where you’ll coming from, and I would love to keep Church. But what other real options do we have? Reyes & Wright are obviously untouchable, every starter not named Perez should be untouchable since we’re going to have two rotation spots to fill next year. Beltran is going to be very hard to move with his contract and NTC and likely won’t bring back the same package Church will since Church is cheap and under control for a while. After them, except for the guys in the bullpen, and even most of them other than Wagner aren’t going to bring back much in the way of prospects or help this year, we really have no one of value.
the LF position is killing us this year, i think we just have 1 HR from that position. we cant continue to rely on alou. he could be on our bench. omar has to find a RBI man to play LF like bay,holliday, ibanez
PASCUCCI
I would rather see him than aguila, call him up!!!
SOmeone tell me why he is not up , but we bring this clown up….what the hell!!! You cant make this crap up! What are they thinking….Not only do they call up a player that is overmatched, but they PLAY him in the biggest game of the year…..
but really with alou out and church back ,and the biggest game of the year …. someone please tell me why the last roster spot on the team is starting ….? really just one person tell me why aguilla was in that lineup …..
and anyone who thinks his presence didnt hurt the team ,your lost …. he was out of position in the field, overmatched at the plate and his arm is little league stuff..
Noone can answer that question, becouse there is no sense to that decision to play him. Manuel is a CLOWN
Billy wagner may not be young but i guarantee he will have value to a contending team.
but would he waive his no trade clause? and if so, who needs a closer?
san diego? arizona?maybe.
the rays actually lets hope percival is out for a while
i would love to see the mets trade wagner and beltran and get good young prospects that could eventually turn into mlb players.[how did we get jesse orsoco? we traded jerry koosman for him.how did we get gary carter? we traded hubie brooks and floyd youmans for him.And neil allen for keith hernandez.
Even better we got david cone for a 35 year old catcher named ed hearn.
i wish omar would just let this team die…….the future is still very bright but we need to be smart
agreed, hopefully Jeff Wilpon will step in before Omar makes a Kazmir-like trade (not that we have anyone in the system as good as Kazmir).
I doubt the Wilpons will let him going into a new stadium. It seems counter productive to us but they probably figure they’re better off with a crappy team that has a chance of making the play-offs than throwing up the white flag and selling.
Either way there has to be a way to improve this team for the future if we have to watch the way they play now.
there is……………………… you leave your ace in ,in the clutch and you run your best lineup out there EVERYDAY….. especially in the biggest games of the year…
in fact i would consider trading anyone except for wright ,reyes,maine or santana.{on th mlb roster].
i have a different take on this: when it could go either way, managers dont take out ace pitchers unless the ace gives them an inkling that taking them out is ok. i have a hard time believing that if a big time ace goes to his manager – an interim manager at that – and insists that he wants to stay in the game, that the manager would “say no, u coming out”. i think it was up to johan to say “no skip, i’m not coming out”. unless the manager is named scoiscia, leyland, larussa or pinella, i highly doubt a manager wouldnt defer to a pitcher of santana’s ilk if that pitcher insists on saying in the game. so everyone’s blaming manuel, but i say santana played a role as well.
You are correct…they are both CLOWNS
Wait, listen,you hear it? Its the cicus theme. Bring in the Clowns! Wahoo…..the circus is at Citizens bank field for the next three days!! WAhoo……Then we get to watch it all the way till October!!! Wahoo…….Then next year we get to watch it at citi field…Wahoo!!!! Come see…..Johan and $137 mill, Reyes and his “you took my Babah away ” act, Beltran and his “bat on his shoulder routine”, how about Wagner and “see you later”, Dont forget Alou “walking the tightrope in a wheelchair”, and Ollie perez walking around in a daze…..you gotta see it to believe it……Wahoooo!!!!
lol…..
LAdies and Gentlemen, now turn your attention to the Cannon……Here comes Wille shot out of the Cannon..headed rith to the bay..
its time to make trades before it too late and we let some more players get older and weaker. The only way moises should be used is as a platoon or pinch hitter off the bench [thats if hes not on the disabled list.]
Wheres frank cashen when you need him?
HEs in the circus too. The midget with the big bow tie and Glasses….Hes ridin a bicycle on the high wire….
Anybody remember a guy named craig swan? when he did pitch for a crappy mets team in th late 70s early 80s It always seemed he would lose 1-0 or 2-1 0r 3-2.Maybe its time we got one more big bat? I wonder how much of a diiference it would make?
NOOO…I like this circus the way it is. Now stop tryin to make sense….let us enjoy this , this, this circus atmoshpere
last night ………. that would be ryan church…. but he was resting…
Wasnt he the guy on top of the elephant?? I think he was…He was pretty funny when he stood up on the4 elepant and stayed balanced while it was running…
Well at least with cashen as gm we had a very good farm system and eventually a good team.
call me crazy , but i always liked having my best player on the team ( this year)… in the lineup for the big games….. but i’m sure jerry knows better about how much he adds sitting on the bench resting..
thats like not putting in the funniest clown one night, cause he is very tired from the night before performance…
And lets hope that f-mart isnt just another alex escobar!
No…He is a much faster clown than escobar….you should see him run away form the lions ..
then we would be adding another ”bozo”!
HAAAAAAAAA
and wasted money!
Offense, or lack thereof, has been the biggest problem this year. We’ve gotten the pitching pretty much when we needed it. We’d be at least a half dozen games above .500 now if the offense had been there.
Case in point: 3 straight 2-1 loses to the Padres.
Pelfrey’s 1-0 loss to the Nats in May.
Last nights game.
You get the picture. When we’ve had the pitching to win the game, the bats couldn’t get it done.
Look at 2006. I think we paraded something like 13 different starters out there that year to keep it going. We got it done with those starters b/c they pitched well enough to keep us in the game and the bats ALWAYS came through. Come from behind wins were a dime a dozen. Scoring in the first 2 innings was routine. And how many grand slams did they hit that year?
What’s wrong with this picture this year is the offense….
Wrong….again how bout someone throwing a shutout in one of those games …..that would help give the team some momentum…….this team is a circus act……thats it…
exactly………. these people must think it’s against the law that the mets should win 1-0 …2-1 or 3-2……. mets must have 7 runs to qualify for a win……
and heres a crazy thought…. but how about the bullpen (beloved sanchie ..the late night rice and bean king ) actually nail down a close one … god forbid……
Three 2-1 losses against the Padres – Mets push half the men on base they’ve stranded this year so far, could have won those games – even 3-2. So I’m saying the same thing, even though we don’t agree. I never said anything about them having to score 7 runs or better every game.
Do the math. Mets are like 5th in stranding runners on base. Push half of those across, it’s a whole different picture.
It’s far more reasonable to expect to get half those runners home they strand, than it is to expect your starters to go out and throw a shutout every night…..
How abou we trade wagner and ollie to baltimore for garrett olson a young lefty starter and jim hoey a young hard throwing reliever and 2b brian roberts?
How about we call ringling brothers and see if they want to trade all there clowns for ours…
I’m sure we can squeeze them for one of their best clowns
OMAR , i hope you are reading this! we need another big bat!!!!!!!!
and omar dont go looking for this bat in an old age home!!!!!!!
I’m tellin ya,,,,ringling brothers…lets see what they have to offer
everyone relax Omar has everything under control. he will be soon trying to convince jose feliciano that he could be a top closer for the team.
you mean we cant get ‘Crusty or Bozo?
judging by some of the “comments” above, i see that the manager is no longer to blame. in my opinion, last night’s loss should be laid directly at the feet of the manager. why in the world was ryan church being “rested” in the first game of our biggest series of the year? number 1, he’s hot and on a 5 game hitting streak since he returned from injury. number 2, with him in the lineup we have one of the top defensive outfields in baseball, chavez-beltran-church, left to right. werth’s one out single to left in the 6th would have been caught easily if chavez were in left instead of the minor leaguer aguila who was obviously tentative on the play. the pop up by rollins 2 batters later would have ended the inning without a run scoring. since the horses were already out of the barn by that time, i don’t even want to get into santana being removed from the game in the 9th. these are two glaring mistakes that the previous manager would have been roasted for making, and rightly so. how come the new manager gets a pass? is it because he’s so “fascinating?” he may be doing things “differently” but no one can deny that he’s still getting the same old results… win one, lose one, win one, lose one, etc….
for all of that, a baseball manager’s number one job is to put his team in the best possible position to win every game, especially crucial games like last night. no matter how “fascinating” and “engaging” and “thoughtful” you think he is, our manager failed at doing that last night… and that’s why we lost…
You are correct….he is the leading Clown!!!!
but he does such a great stand up routine…….
and don’t forget, he’s a “gangsta”…give me a friggin break.
I could not agree more. I hate to look for someone to blame, and I’m sure there are reasons JM rested Church. Right now though, that is the reason the Mets lost last night, and no one can convince me otherwise.
Look. Wrights stats are filthy. Reyes too. Lord even Delgado’s numbers are better than what I was hoping for this year (on pace for 90 runs, 150 hits, 30 hr, 100 RBI, though his avg., obp, so, and bb are atrocious.) We can’t trade him not because he’s not hitting, but because this is his contract year, and because his salary is so huge. There are more than a couple teams who could use 15 hr and 50 RBI from a 1st baseman in the second half, but not many who could swing the bread. Lets try to give a little credit where credit is due.
We can’t b*tch at our hitters for last night, they are human. Well, we can b*tch at Beltran, but ya’ll are right, he needs to go to the 2 spot. Then we can b*tch at him if he still stinks. We need to focus on Jerry making sane moves (like starting our most productive outfielder against our nemesis), and with the fact that our bullpen cannot be trusted in a tight spot. Cannot be trusted. God I miss Alou, perhaps we could build him mechanical legs and back.
First off BOZO is the best clown in history. There is no way we can get BOZO on our team. He is an icon of epic proportions. We need to set our sights a little lower. There could be other less than average clowns that we can acquire. I am sur that Omar is scouring the clown waiver wire to see what clowns slip through the cracks……
the great aguilla ..maybe ????
Naw.,..we already stole that clown away… that was a steal….great clown he is,,,great clown..
How about Kruzty the clown?
i still think we need a mgr who will light a fire under their butts and not be afraid to get on their backs when he should like”listen you bunch of overpaid clowns your not funny anymore!!!!!!!!!!”
LOLOLOLOL……yeah…
light a fire !!!! lite a f–kin fire ??? come on man we got a knife puller / fertilizer maker…..
you mean you guys would rather see church than aguilla….??? wtf ..is wrong with you people…..?
Look church has been shot out of the cannon too much… he needs to rest his noggin ….you know , when you keep landing on your head out of the cannon, its gonna have an effect. He needs to learn ow to tuck and roll…c’mon man…tuck and roll,,,tuck and roll,,,
your right …. he needs his resty …… till he learns the tuck and roll sponge landing….
ahmen
how about this aquire brian robertsfrom baltimore see if we can swing a deal for hunter pence from houston.
NOOO…we need a sword swalower….That , I think could be the move!!
Your beggining to sound like a clown yourself….YOu workin right now? Maybe we should take a look at you
sorry you already took my spot.
the again forget it houston and baltimore wants their clowns!
i thought we got rid of ours[wiilie!]
Wait,,,here goes that circus song again…..god I love the circus
pt barnum once said ”thers a sucker born everyday” i guess he meant us met fans.
Man, thats the smartest thing I’ve heard regarding this freakin circus in flushing..
Omar i hate to tell you this but…….. theres a space open in the unemployment line!
not having church last night was a horror……..this is what the lineup should be tonight:
reyes
beltran
wright
church
delgado
easley
castro
chavez
maine
YES, YES, YES !!!!!!!! Perfect. That should be the line-up every single freakin day and just leave it alone and let them start clicking and I can guarantee you that line-up will win more then 3 in a row. Only tweak you would make is inter-changing Castrol and Schneider against leftie/rightie. And when Alou gets back, it realy look good!!! Chavez as your late inning defensive replacement for Alou. Now, if we can see this, how is it possible Manuel and the Mets don’t?
Rest of the year ubtil Alou gets hurt again…………………
Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Church
Alou
Delgado
Easley
Castro/Schneider
Pitcher
I think you are right about this batting order, essentially. I have toyed with Wright, Church, or D-G as clean up since April. The most natural choice is Big Dog, but he really has no groove going (NEWSFLASH!). I think Wright probably has more natural power than Church, but Church sure as hell can mash it.
Beltran should never be clean-up. People complain about him ad nauseam, but the fact is he lifetime BA is about .270. He’s notoriously streaky.
Manuel needs to keep tinkering and tweaking with the power center of this lineup. I really, really think this is the key to getting us to win ballgames. Our team really can hit. Got to keep reformulating till All-Stare break.
Freddie better be looking for another GM
Omar should stay. You want Bernazard or another moron like Phillips here?
Freddie needs to sell this team to someone who knows what they’re doing; not his idiot son.
No, I want someone with competency and foresight- items that are absent from Minaya’s vocabulary.
I think this is the team we are stuck with till the end of the season. I cant see us making any big moves because we really dont have any chips to use. The farm system is shot and needs to be restocked.
Am I missing something or does Beltran never come through?
beltran, wagner, neise and perez for josh hamilton…….get it done
or how bout beltan, heilman, and perez for hamilton
You must be smoking the same crack as Hamilton!
People, it’s stupid to be down on B-tran. He IS a superstar CF-er! But he’s not WIllie Mays at the plate, and he never will be. He’ll get hot again soon, and you’ll get off his back, till he watches strike three or pops up w/ bases loaded, and the cycle begins again.
If you can suggest a more complete CFer in the Bigs now (who is available!), then, hey, let’s go get ‘em. But hatin’ on B-tran is doggone stupid as BB players go.
But, yeah, I like him for the two-spot in the lineup; makes good sense.
Where is Alou? I thought he was flying to Bingo a couple days ago but he has yet to play. I now officially hate him.
that was the original plan but the mets decided to fly him back to NY. So apparently he’s there getting ready for the homestand
And does anyone know what happened to Wilmer Flores? He left early yesterday and was not in the lineup yesterday. Perhaps he is on his way to Philly to join the big club? Kidding obviously but what happened.
NEvermind apparently Wilmer wasn’t feeling well.
face it fellas, we are a lesser version of the yankees. at least they can hit.
we need to look at next season. there is no trade at the deadline this year that will make out bats come alive. That i think is now realized. I was in philly for this game and honestly, once they won, it felt like a playoff game. they ran on the field and everyone in the crowd was mocking santana…. i felt like a yankee fan. we need to start thinkign young. i don’t understand what the FO was thinking when we went into the season with this bench and the aging players we have. Now it is realized we need to think young…. i dunno, i’m ashamed of being a fan of a team that plays like they don’t give a sh*t.
too bad santana has owned the phils already…….
my advice to everyone, especially when feeling irritable after losing a game like this to philadelphia, is to simply ignore any comments made by mookie1986. He’s not a troll, but he might as well be. (S)he consistently demonstrates a lack of knowledge about baseball, but more annoyingly, is completely negative and seems to spend his/her time baiting people with juvenile criticisms. Do yourself a favor. Control F this name and ignore these posts. You’ll be smarter for it.
tonights lineup was released.
reyes
church
wright
beltran
easley
delcrappo
castro
aguila!!
WHY IS CHRIS AGUILA PLAYING!? id rather see tatis in left
Not bad, and when we get Alou back (Hopefully), Aguila is gone. With Alou, that’s another quality at bat in your order.
I agree that they should flip flop church and Beltran in this line up. I also don’t understand Aquila playing, but he is here, and I assume it must be a lefty xstarter again?
yea aguila sucks big time…..he took some horrid at bats………in addition, ryan howard is proof of evolution….”and tonight ladies and gents we have a 300 pound gorrilla at 1st base”
Aguila, that was a real bad ab when he walked to load the bases in the fifth. he was also robbed of a hit his first time up. He certainly looks like more of a 4A player, but don’t talk out of your butt.
and he looked like a child striking out and he completely blows in the field and its likely b/c of his inability to see clearly.
inability to see clearly? is that a joke about asians?
Delcrappo, real funny. You must have been up all night to come up with that one.
Um Hubie…………………..Delcrapo is a name that has been used on this blog for as long as I’ve been comingnhere………………months. Guess you’re a ” Newbie”.
Jerry Manuel is quickly making mets fans irate! Chris Aguila? This is a joke! He sucks and Omar should be embarrassed at his AAA call up players. This is a disgrace. Let’s see how many times Aguila comes to bat with RISP and strikes out or hits double plays. And his throws to the plate!
Aguila is a solid AAA player!
yes sir, he made it to the AAA all-star game!
Manuel said he is going to bat Beltran second sometime in the near future.
Is Aguila the BEST this orginization can come with as a left field replacement? I mean really, come on. That alone says everything you need to know about these 2008 Mets.
Watch Aguila goes 4-4 with a HR and 3 RBIs and everyone declares Omar a genius.
I hope you’re right. But that would only be ONE game. We need consistancy.
Looks like we might get our wish soon, beltran hitting 2nd in the future in front of wright. I would hope manuel would be smart enough though to bat church in the cleanup spot. tonight though i believe i heard church is in the 2 hole.
Still don’t like delagdo hitting 5th though. If church eventually bats 4th i’d put easily 5th and delgado 6th.
How about Alou 5th and Delgado 6th with Easley 7th providing Delgado some protection?
I think Manuel will put Beltran in the 2 hole tomorrow against the righty. I think he didn’t want Church’s first start in the cleanup spot to be against a lefty.
Makes sense. Either way, Chavez or castillo in the #2 hole was not working. It’s a major improvement in my mind to have either Church or Beltran batting second. This should have been done a long time ago. It was actually tried a while back and they won something like 4 out of 5.
church in the 4 hole? dear god… why not put wright in the 4 hole? he is clearly an RBI guy.
reyes
beltran
church
wright
delgado/delgrandma/delcrappo/delbummo
easley
castro
the revolving door in left field
in my perfect world, id like to see church batting 2nd. look at the splits- the mets offense was dynamite with church batting 2nd. i like carlos beltran in the 3- he reminds me a lot of steve somer’s favorite RF bobby abreu, in that hes very selective and likes to take pitches. this is my lineup for the 4 games alou will play
Reyes
Church
Beltran
Wright
Alou
Delgado
Easley
Castro/Schneider
Perfect, if we can keep Alou healthy long enough for this line-up to rack up some wins. This really lengthens the line-up and makes it much, much tougher for an opposing pitcher to pitch around.
No one on this team is un-tradable. Not even Santana & Wright.
We should rape this team for young prospects NOW. Maybe in 2-3 years we will then have something to cheer for.
Nice metaphor, ‘ya dope!
Relax buddy, this team is not a re-building project,. It’s only missing some key pieces to really be a good, contending team for years to come.
With a core of:
Reyes
Wright
Beltran
Church…………………..all reasonably young
And…………………
Santana
Maine
Pelfrey………………………all also reasonably
All we really need is a Good, productive hitting LF and a good power hitting 1st baseman along with one more quality starter and this would be a contending team.
440 comments! Holy crap! Even if no one is exactly enjoying this season, there are a hell of a lot of people paying attention.
Agreed. We need that one stud bat (as do a lot of clubs with mediocre offenses) to make the whole line work. And we need more guys like Church, willing to run through a wall or a knee, if that’s what’s needed to win a game. Just to keep the veterans honest.
With Delgado declining, Alou not there, etc., we don’t have that stud in the middle of the order. Find that one killer bat, and all the other members of the lineup look good again. Could Tex be it?
If it looks like we are out of it at the deadline, then I’m all for trading Ollie if we can get something really decent back. Every time he has a great outing ( see Ollie v. Yankees) his trade value goes through the roof. We need a 1st and 2nd base prospect. Maybe we have a first baseman at AA. Maybe not. Let’s keep our options open.
For the record, no, NY does not deserve or demand a winner every year. We deserve and should demand a smart forward thinking organization that builds every year towards both short and long term goals.
THANK YOU EMPIRE!—Follow this game closely long enough and (as i did) you could predict THIS MESS coming
in!—Fire Willie!,Manuel is clueless etc.,etc..
Question, what other team EVER has 2 guys hitting back-to-back making 30 MILLION dollars who can’t get a big hit
b/t them?—THIS SEASON IS ALL ABOUT The Teflon Don
Omar and the job HE’S done puttig together this roster!
you could never sign that team……..and youd give up a thousand draft picks and trading for bay is not possible……
the things i mentione are realistic and very much possible…..
dude, sheets, k-rod, hudson, garland and tex will be type a free agents. you cannot sign all of them. you can only sign up to two type a free agents.
That line up looks so good, we at least have to sign Tex. Who could Omar finagle for Bay?
which is why you need to trade beltran…..and extend perez….
instead of focusing on tex, the met should be taking a look at Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres.
Why would they give up a young offensive power house first basemen who’s cheap and under control for a while?
Joe you are right about Gonzalez, he’s nasty. But he’s a lefty bat, and not a free agent. Tex is more $, but he’s available, AND he switch hits. I’d rather see Gonzalez too, but I don’t think it’s possible.