|
|
|
Prior to tonight’s game, Mets GM Omar Minaya confirmed that he had been approached by Indians GM Mark Shapiro regarding RHP C.C. Sabathia before trading the pitcher to the Brewers.
According to Minaya, Shapiro felt the Mets had the necessary players to make such a deal, but he declined.
…from what i understand, shapiro would have required Fernando Martinez and a pitcher like Jon Niese or Eddie Kunz, as well as another mid-level pitching prospect…
Sabathia, who is 6–8 with a 3.83 ERA, will be a free agent at the end of this season, during which he will likely seek a contract similar to the seven-year deal signed by Johan Santana.
…personally, i’m glad the Mets did not bite on sabathia, who will almost certainly sign with a different team after the season…right now, the Mets problem is not pitching, it’s a consistent offense…
Loading ...
This is a deal the Mets should have made. We aren’t talking a Kazmir for Zambrano deal. None of these guys have shown anything spectacular at all, and even if Sabathia walked which may have not been the case, we still get 2 picks for him and honestly I’d rather have Sabathia for half a season and going for it and the 2 compensation picks than Martinez + Niese + Some PTNBL.
That’s extremely short-sighted. A couple of months of Sabathia, when the Mets trouble is offense, not starting pitching, is not worth much. Plus, you’ve just given away most of what the Mets have in terms of talent at AA or higher. That’s the kind of thinking that got them in the bad situation they are in right now.
Seriously..i mean, santana is 7-6? Getting Sabbathia would not have been the way to go. Its nice to see Minaya not doing what every other mets GM would have done. Plus its the New York Mets, so Sabbathia probably would have sucked if he were in NY anyway. Also, he sucks in the playoffs
The draft is such a crap shoot….Martinez and Niese is a significantly better haul then what you might be looking at with 2 compensation picks. And really, we don’t need Sabathia. We need another bat. If we’re going to do anything to bring this team to the next level it should be to bring a bat to Shea.
What is Sabathia for half a season going to do for the Mets? Pelfrey has pitched well, Perez has righted the ship. It’d be another thing if Sabathia was a power-hitting outfielder… but he’s not.
What is a legitimate ace going to do for the Mets? Give them a solid rotation that can help us get into the playoffs (Sabathia would give us about a good 17 starts, right now we have Santana/Maine/Perez/Pedro/Pelfrey really Sabathia isnt a huge upgrade over the latter 3?) and then go for it in the playoffs.
I just don’t buy the hype on Fernando Martinez to begin with, he hasn’t shown much this year and Jonathan Niese may end up being good, but Sabathia IS great and would have helped the team out right now. I understand why the Mets didn’t do it but really I’d pay Sabathia whatever he wanted, and the Mets will probably go after him in the offseason anyway.
Perez was standing on the gallows a week ago and now everyone loves him after one win. When he loses another, everyone will say that Omar should have made this deal and that the season is over because he didnt, and should be fired as a result.
You couldnt make this stuff up…
if sabathia was a power hitter who could play both 2nd and left field at the same time, then it would have been a good trade
why are my comments not posting?
Unless CC was going to play LF, this would have been pointless. The Phillies never seemed like major players. If they were, Omar should have gone after them. Worst thing that happens is it makes the Phillies give up more.
And first base, and second base.
Nah, Omar did the right thing. We need F-Mart and Niese, that would have decimated our prospects. Also, I don’t think there are enough Popeye’s franchises in Manhattan to set up Sabathia with a lifestyle he’s no doubt accustomed to.
For that package I rather get an offensive weapon that…
A) We can have for a couple seasons
B) Can resign too…
Matt Holliday?
I’m responding to every Matt Holliday reference with the plea to just look at his statistics when he is any state other than Colorado. He is NOT a superstar. He’s really extraordinaryily ordinary.
I see a .315 average on the road, no?
i see a .277 career average on the road. but more importantly, his OPS drops almost 300 points (!) away from coors.
i would have done it if they were given a chance to negotiate an extension. martinez, kunz, niese all have potential but havent played at that major league level yet. CC is a proven hard throwing, young lefty who would give us the best 1/2 punch in the league with him behind johan. ill take proven stars over the crapshoot that are prospects all day, everyday. as said earlier this isnt zambrano for kazmir, its a CY young winner for 3 kids with AA experience, plus the ever popular PTBNL. to say you wouldnt do this, provided we had the chance to work out an extension is dumb. i wouldnt rent him for 3 months, but if i could lock him up for 5 or 6 years, im doing this deal all day and twice on sunday.
I agree, I’m surprised so many people voted no.
santana 29
sabathia 28 (give him santana money)
maine 26
pelfrey 24
livan hernandez ?????
Sabathia is considered a bad risk by many because of his size. He is not expected to hold up. Hell, that could’ve been why he seemed to run out of gas when he hit the postseason last year. He doesn’t belong in the same category as Johan. He may end up being great until he is 40–and if he does, good for him–but there’s every reason to bet against that.
BINGO… I was looking up and down this thread for this comment. Sabithia WILL break down… he is a 300 lbs Pitcher. No Way No How does he deserve a contract as long as Santana. NOW… I would be willing to give him Santana like money for 3 Seasons… But he (and his agent) aren’t stupid and know he is a high liabilty pitcher.
I find it funny… all the hoopla over a pitcher with a losing record!!
The losing record doesnt really reflect that statistics of a pitcher. Santana is one game above .500 and we know that 4 or so of his loses really shouldnt have happened. Win/Loss record reflects poorly on your team if you have a good ERA. I think Sabbathia has something like 123 K’s to 24 BB’s..thats pretty good. Still he’s not worth the prospects the indians wanted. If the Brewers dont win it all this year they’re gonna regret making the trade. Sheets and Sabbathia will both be on the market next year
Our pitching has been fine, it’s our offense that’s been lacking.
And I think it’s safe to say there’s no way they would resign him, do you really think they’d give out a second contract like the one Johan get, cause thats what Sabathia is going to be asking for. And if for some reason they did how would we fill the hole at 1b and in lf.
Like I said, I prefer an offensive weapon. How much more of an ‘ace’ can you get than Santana and look what we always do to him…never score enough runs for him. We would probably just waste starts from Sabathia too. If we had a stable Alou & Church then I’d say yes, I would make the Sabathia trade.
Why can you not have more than one “ace”. There really is NO offensive weapon available this trading deadline that will be AS GOOD as Sabathia would to our rotation. Maybe Teixiera but the braves wont trade him to us, so who is there? Matt Holliday cannot hit on the road, just look up the stats. Xavier Nady, Jason Bay? Seriously, sometimes its good to build up a strength to the point where it can cover up your weaknesses, and CC Sabathia would have done just that.
most if not all those who voted no haven’t seen F.Martinez
who if ever,we won’t see in Flushing until2010.
But isn’t typical of Omar after the fact to let us know we
were involved?
I’m trying to figure out what you’re getting at here. Are you saying he should have let “us” know before making a decision so that we could vote on it? Or that he shouldn’t mention it at all after the fact?
Just giving another heads-up about the kid(no I-
-Can’t call him FMart,hasn’t earned a nickname)
AND yes Omar should have just kept his mouth
shut since apparently talks weren,t serious.
Lord knows if they were Tony B. would have leaked
to the press.
lol the phillies announcers call jimmy rollins J-Ro…its so dumb. So the Phillies are cool right? They must be pissed that the mets took 3 of 4 from them at home hahaha..so awesome
Yeah, he would have done that for three months. There’s no guarantee after that, but we’re out one F-Mart and Niese. You guys are overlooking the contract. Still, I see your point. It just seems like too much of a risk when we’re already having problems with run support.
Put Matt Holliday in a lineup with Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Church…then let me see if he still can’t hit on the road.
Cause Garret Atkins, Todd Helton and Brad Hawpe are scrubs? It’s not like he gets zero protection or something.
atobe, I looked up the stats and he’s hitting .315 on the road. What else do you want him to do?
He has Atkins that’s it.
THIS year he is, look at his career numbers.
And he’s still slugging nearly 150 points lower.
How come his lineup in Colorado provides sufficient support to allow him to hit at home,but doesn’t protect him on the road? Home/Road splits are a real phenomenon, especially at Coors. Holliday has had years to show he can hit at sea level. He is on pace this year to hit 7 home runs on the road and that is typical for him. At Shea, he would be a typical guy with warning track power.
And also MetsfaninVegas
a)his road average this year is OK, but it is devoid of power
b)Over the last 3 years his home average has been .370 but his road average only .281, also with a noticeable drop in power
So what outfielder do you want? I would only go Holliday or Nady.
One that isn’t going to cost much in the way of prospects. If they can get one without moving F-mart and Niese I’ll be fine with them. Or how about Kenny Lofton, even at 400 he provides great defense and he still has a productive bat.
at least we know that we have prospects people want. GO OUT AND GET A BAT OMAR!!
smart move by omar not to even think about moving the prospects. i would not give up that much to get a half year of a pitcher that will be a free agent at the end of the year. shapiro was trying to make omar repeat what he did in montreal.
I just don’t see that we need another starting pitcher. We have what is shaping up to be one of the most solid starting rotations in the National League, and they’re relatively young. Maine, Pelfrey, and, God help us, even Perez look quite good this year, and of course, we have Johan, for whom we don’t seem to be able to produce runs, but that’s not his fault. Pedro may still be a question mark, but there are at least some encouraging signs now, and even if he fell apart completely, how many teams in the NL can say they have 4 really quality starting pitchers?
And our bullpen is pretty good, too, a few recent hiccups notwithstanding.
No, we need help with our aging offense. In the next 2 years or so, we’re probably going to have to populate first base, second base, and left field with younger talent. That’s where we need to be concentrating our trades.
I think the at the end of the year the mets should let go of both perez (huge contract) and pedro (he’s old) and go after sheets. They could probably get a second tier pitcher to replace perez. I think Perez is showing signs of maturing but hes gonna want a johan contract too…boras is his agent so he’ll sign somewhere for that kind of cash
If you are going to give that up, then you have to have more than 1/2 a season. Prefer some offense as starting pitching has not been our downfall.
as i said as a rental its dumb as hell, but if you do it with the stipulation you get time to negotiate an extension, ala schilling and can do so its worth it. santana, sabathia, and maine as 1-3………..i could pitch 4 and 5 and we could still win. without an extension i wouldnt do it…..but hes worth johan money and IMO you can never have too many #1 caliber young lefty’s.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be dead set against it if there was a contract stipulation. By the way, how’s your arm feeling?
I don’t think Sabathia was open to negotiating an extension now. He wants to test the free agent market. (I’m not 100% sure of that, but I’m pretty sure that was what he had said.)
Sabathia is a good pitcher, but i would not have gone after him either. i’ve always felt that Sabathia was a bit overrated to be honest…i mean he’s put up solid #’s and has gotten better over the years, but compare those numbers to Santana and he is, in my opinion, in a lower tier than Santana.
now if the Mets didn’t get Johan last offseason, it’s a different story…you go for him. at the same time, the Mets would have more prospects in Gomez, Mulvey, Humber and Guerra to trade. however, the mets need a bat…not an ace right now.
pitching is not this teams problem, see santana and his stats. sabathia would have been another victim of the anemic offense. we need hitters, our pitching is fine, albeit not dominant.
I voted no.
Need outfielders.
I voted no for the common reasons mentioned. SP is not what is going to keep them from the post season (if they miss). Having a stable offensive and line up is. and maybe the pen…
That, and the fact that they have so many holes to fill next year, and these guys either have to fill them, or get players that will.
I am also pretty sure that Cleveland siad no signing window, so he was truly a rental. Plus he is a tubso, and no way I want to invest Johan years and $$ on him.
If they are going to make a deal for the “cream” of the prospects, better it is for an impact bat, and preferably not a FA rental.
Also, I think it might be close to time to just bring up Kunz. THe Mets probably need him more than Bingo does at this point!
No thanks to Kunz…walks way too many guys. His numbers have been pretty bad since we drafted him, I hope he puts it together.
Seen the kid, throws real hard and real straight.
Its nice to know that we could have made the deal, but if he wasn’t going to stick around here then there is no way we pay that much to rent a player and then pay even more to sign him.
I’d have done it provided we could sign the guy.
Johan
Maine
Sabathia
Pelfrey
That’s a rotation you can win with for years to come
without a doubt
he’s not signing with the brewers, so that may be the rotation of the future whether or not the deal happened
He’s overweight and wouldn’t be able to handle NY well. That’s my opinion. I’d pass on a rental and pass on giving him the monster contract he’d demand. Few pitchers are worth that kind of money & years and this he is not one of them.
I’m really happy the Mets and Omar Minaya didn’t pull the trigger on this deal. The Mets don’t need C.C. Sabathia. Just like Matt said, what they need is a consistent offense. It doesn’t make much sense to give away the future of your offense in Fernando Martinez and either the future close or a future starter in Eddie Kunz or Jon Niese for a rental player.
No thank you on Sabathia. Given our already depleted farm system given the Santana trade, I’m glad that we wouldn’t go out and deplete it even further by getting another so-called ace. The aura around Sabathia’s name given his pending free agency would be another distraction that this team doesn’t need, as a cloud would hover over this team about whether or not he will resign. This is something that the Brewers will have to endure in the middle of a tight division race with St. Louis and the Cubs.
Plus, does anyone else want to hear about another so-called ”ace” on our staff not getting enough run support to get him wins? Talk about the pressure of winning in New York after such a big deal would be made in such an unsure situation ala free agency - it’s a hassle not worth enduring.
i dont understand what everyone means when they say its not like zambrano for kazmir, going on to say that meantioned prospects are just prospects.
kazmir never played for the mets. HE WAS A PROSPECT!
so how do you know its not like that? what if f-mart is suddenly next year’s rookie of the year for the indians? and neise is the next nolan ryan? or kunz = papelbon? you don’t know yet, so you can’t say its not like zambrano for kazmir.
The difference was Kazmir was dominating the minor leagues as a 19/20 year old and it was obvious he was going to be a major league stud in the not to near future.
Fernando Martinez has simply been average at best so far, he’s been all tools and almost no production. Kunz has shown nothing and really Niese’s value might never be higher than right now.
On the flip side CC has established himself as one of the best pitchers in baseball the past few years. Victor Zambrano is exactly what he was, Victor Zambrano.
AVERAGE?!!??
mind u, he is still only 19 yrs old…
he is way ahead of most 19yr olds at this stage….
plus at spring training, he hit well over .300 this year and last year
Ochoa was no where near heralded as Martinez and was 24 by the time he got any playing time in NY…
Escobar played 18 games for the mets and got hurt…he was traded to the Indians in the Alomar trade…
How about Melvin Mora ? I think he turned out ok….
Jeff Keppinger…hmmm…I think we couldve used his production out of 2B…
no way no how I trade away F-Mart….and right now til we sign a long term deal with a good 1B…I hold on to Carp as well…
As much as I like CC as a pitcher, it just made little sense unless Omar had to reassurance from the Wilpons that they were willing to give him a contract like Santana’s.
And I doubt they would have. Trading for a three month excellent pitcher only makes sense if it made John Maine or Pelfrey expendable as trade bait, but they weren’t unless CC was signed. Draft picks or not.
But it is good to know that other teams like a few of our prospects.
Hey Matt,
It’s just CC now, not C.C. Sabathia.
CC Sabathia that is, not just “CC”
I think we’d be crazy to trade MORE of our young prospects. Teams are now building around those type of players. Even the yankees who have notoriously traded their players away for the win now mentality have started to adopt this.
We traded Milledge, we traded Gomez, both trades were justified yes and have worked out nicely. However were going to trade more of these guys? I don’t want to do that. Point is not to get any older, were old enough already.
Yeah we could make a run this year by acquiring a big time bat, but nothing is guaranteed. Alou is supposedly coming back and i’m fine with that as long as he’s here for the stretch run, Church might be fine. We don’t know yet, as we get closer to the deadline we’ll have better answers to these questions.
If those situations don’t work out (alou and church) then we can go out and get a bat. We can maybe get a guy like a nady for less, we don’t have to go out and get matt holliday.
the good thing is that its the brew crew the cant sign him at years end and he will be an option for free agency
I would have done the trade. Sabathia is a proven ace. Martinez for some reason to me has “Alex Ochoa” and “Alex Escobar” written all over him. Is Niese any different than Mulvey or Humber? He’s not a sure thing. The Mets offense seems to have gotten better the last few games. Maybe the big bopper they need is Mike Carp or Dan Murphy. Santana, Sabathia, Maine, Martinez, and Perez looks pretty good. If you don’t resign CC, are the draft picks they receive really that far behind of where Kunz, Martinez and Niese currently are? Not really. Oliver Perez and Pedro Martinez might bring a fairly high pick(s) as well if they don’t resign. Four or five picks in the top 50 of next year’s draft isn’t too shabby.
The Mets’ need right now is a RH bat for LF, not a SP. To trade what’s left of the farm now for Sabathia would make little sense. If this story is to be believed then it shows that the Mets do have some desirable commodities left in their system to use to acquire that RH bat if they see fit. Then, when this season ends and Martinez, Perez and El Duque (who?) likely leave, they can still negotiate with Sabathia if they want to to fill the likely multiple holes they’ll have in the rotation.
Sabathia is a fat pig who sucked in the playoffs. The Indians did the right thing.
4 games certainly seems like a big enough sample size to make that kind of judgment.
while it’s enticing to look at a rotation that would be this:
santana
sabathia
maine
perez
pedro
you create several problems:
- he’s going to leave and i don’t love the draft
- what do you do with pelfrey and even el duque?
- at the end of the day, the offense will still be the problem, along with the pen
LOL, who said give Sabathia “Santana Money”.
YOU give him Santana Money. I’m not about to give 7 years and 134 mil to a 320 pound starting pitcher.
hey, i just started my own blog on the new york mets a few days ago and i’d really appreciate it if some of you guys could go check it out and tell me what you think of it and what you think i could do better. thanks!
http://www.metsextreme.com
thanks, again!
We need a bat or two, not an arm (or a gut, in Sabathia’s case).
You don’t take Pelfrey out of the rotation now. Not with the way he’s been pitching. This is important development time for him. Just as those first two years when he got knocked around silly were important for his development.
The Mets need a solid reliever or bat more than they need another starter right now. I’m glad they didn’t bite at the offer.
The Mets have sunk big time, long term money into one pitcher and the only one worth the gamble available in the last two years.
If CC Sabathia was big time leftfielder who was 28 or younger I would be unnerved that the Mets did not go all in.
Sabathia is a fat, overrated tub who’s already peaked … gotta love Omar pathetically trying to get it out there like he’s a player.
Omar pathetically trying?
He answered a question confirming a report that Shapiro gave of the teams HE reached out to on Sabathia.
I understand that consistent offense is what the team needs, but how can you say, Matt, that pitching is not what the team needs when a 10-1 lead ends up being a 10-9 victory?
You can never have too much pitching.
That said, though, I wouldn’t have made this deal. Maybe for F-Mart and someone else, but Niese and Kunz can’t be going anywhere as far as I’m concerned.
Good non-move by Omar. There’ll be a strong FA market for SPs at the end of the year.
With Endy and Angel next year and F-Mart for half of the year, I don’t think we need a corner OF.
Besides Big Tex, is there any other 1B available who would be of interest? If not, we might have to trade.
I wouldn’t have made this deal because i would be giving up my best prospects Fernando Martinez and Eddie Kunz for Sabathia. This is exactly like the Johan Santana trade that we made in January when we acquired Santana and then we had to sign him. That pretty much the same situation the Brewers are in right now.
I also wouldn’t have made this deal because Sabathia would have cost money. His contract is up after this season and he would be asking for a big contract. If i were to make a guess on how much he would be asking for in his new deal, i would say more than $100 Million and i don’t think the mets want to do that.
Even though the idea of hearing how the mets have the best starting rotation in MLB, i still wouldn’t make this trade.
Let’s step back for a second. This is more spin from the grandmaster. Omar, as always, was vague about details once he was called out on this.
This is Omar trying to make it look like the mets actually have a farm system.
Omar is like Obama: loose with the facts so they conveniently fit what everyone wants to hear.
I never even considered trading for Sabathia.