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At New York Magazine, contributing writer Will Leitch, formerly of Deadspin, explains why Jerry Manuel with his charismatic style fits in with the legacy of Mets managers from the past more than former manager Willie Randolph ever did.
Leitch writes:
“Jerry Manuel might only be the Mets manager for the next few months, but already he has proved himself a rightful heir to Shea’s legacy in a way that Willie Randolph never was…Whereas Randolph had that Yankees’ corporate, We’re All Professionals Here attitude they prefer in the Bronx.”
…i’ll admit, i was very skeptical once manuel was named the interim manager…i thought nothing would change, as i heard manuel had very much the same demanor and style that randolph had…
…surprising, manuel is much different…setting defined roles in the bullpen, not being aprehensive with the media and making bold in-game moves…it’s quite refreshing…
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And he’s a little quirky, which we generally like.
Refreshing indeed. At least he looks like he gives a damn.
I agree with Leitch in the “we’re all professionals” context. Obviously I’m not ever in the clubhouse but it seemed to me from afar that Willie just assumed some sort of concept that these “professionals” always knew exactly what to do and when to do it, and he sat back and waited for them to do it. It seems that Jerry doesn’t assume anything in that regard, and he anticipates situations and prepares his players for them.
I have no scientific evidence to back this up, just observing and listening and this is what I’ve gleaned.
That’s how it was with the Yankees under Joe Torre. They were professionals and they just did their thing. Willie experienced that under Torre and brought that mentality with him to Shea and didn’t seem to adapt to the players very well.
Are you buying into the media crap? He speaks differently, but acts the same.
Isn’t using Schoeneweis who has been good, and is using roughly the same ‘roles’ that Willie did. In addition, Willie was beginning to trust Santana and Maine, and probably wouldn’t have pulled Santana in the 9th the other day, particularly if they’d just fired Peterson.
Look at Castillo, he says he’s not going to play him everyday, and then plays him everyday, which turns out was the wrong move, because what he needed was rest and healing. Now he’s on the DL.
If Manuel’s playing Castillo forced him on the DL, more power to him. All Easley’s done is raise his average 30 points since he moved into the starting lineup.
I agree Manuel’s underusing Show, but on the other hand, Willie tended to bury Feliciano. As between the two, I’d trust Feliciano to keep his production going at this level for the long haul based on his numbers over the past few years — plus, Feliciano can pitch decently to righties, and Show is awful against righties.
I agree with you Ceetar.
Oh, please, he’s already shaken the lineup up and relievers in ways Randolph didn’t.
Has he made mistakes? Sure.
Has he made some changes for the better? Definitely.
I still think the next two weeks will tell. I like what I’m seeing.
To me Manuel just seems more comfortable with himself than Willie did. Willie seemed like he was a bit insecure and he was trying to cover it by being stoic and being “a winner”.
I don’t blame him for being insecure; after all he had gotten passed over for a ton of jobs and this was his first foray into managing. But he gave off the impression that he would not listen to anybody else’s opinion because he was “in charge”, and it certainly felt forced.
i think you’ve put it best. willie tried to hard to make us believe he was in charge, manuel leans back and you just know he’s the skipper
When you have nothing to lose..
He ‘lets us know he’s the skipper’ a bit too much. I think it’s detrimental to the leadership of the players.
Sorry, can you explain what you mean there, “detrimental to the leadership of the players?” You mean he’s not leading the players well, or you mean he’s preventing the players from leading themselves?
If the former, I don’t get it — how can asserting his leadership publicly a actually undermine it? I certainly dont’ see that.
If the latter, I don’t agree, because this team has very little leadership from within — this has been a constant problem; the Mets have no “captain,” no one player that everyone looks to for that kind of thing.
Sure. The second is what I was getting it. I think the buds for ‘captain’ship are there, but Manuel is surpressing them. Things like not allowing Reyes any input, or ignoring David Wright when he wants to go out there and play in the field instead of DH.
He’s so bent on asserting his authority, that he’s not letting the players do anything.
I am all for Mr. Manuel and the tone he has struck, but, folks, let’s be a tad more honest. Had it been Willie who pulled Santana after the eight h inning against the Phillies, this board would have been deluged with Willi-bashers and their comments.
Shouldn’t this read “contributing BLOGGER Will Leitch”. Choose whatever noun, just don’t use ‘writer’.
I’m sorry, but this isn’t writing. I clicked this link expecting something new from Will than what is typically on Deadspin. I was honestly expecting an article with worthwhile analysis and insight. This is nothing but a paragraph followed by a review of facts we already know. This is something one would see in ESPN the Mag, ironically a information medium Will likes to criticize (and rightfully so).
Not to be tough on Will, but this is what Buzz Bissinger means when he refers to the dumbing down of sports coverage.
It is in the Intelligencer section of the magazine which consists of blurbs such as this. No more than 2 or 3 paragraphs.
not familiar with that section, so thanks for clarifying.
I still think Will is incredibly overrated and has yet to show an ability to write something worthy of Intellegent journalism (or “Intelligencer”). He’s the E!News of sports coverage.
“intelligent”
ha.
you’re right, i knew before i got to the bottom of the page that he would reference the moustache with bobby v. people who arent even mets fan have already heard that one 100 times. some new info about these guys and why ny loved them would have been good.
Not to be tough on Will, but this is what Buzz Bissinger means when he refers to the dumbing down of sports coverage.
…
not familiar with that section, so thanks for clarifying.
So, basically, you’re agreeing with Bissinger’s take on “blogs” and adopting his research methods, too, eh? ; )
Take Leitch or leave him, doesn’t matter much to me. Personally, I’ll take him over Hubbach & Matthews any day of the week.
That said, you’re right, this wasn’t much of a piece. Exactly what it was supposed to be, I imagine.
As far as Jerry goes, I continue to like what I see, and am eagerly anticipating tangible results.
I don’t read every blog. Nor was I expecting NY magazine to have a section similar in format/content to what is presented in a blog.
My point is that Will should not be considered a ‘contributing Writer’. Regardless of whether I knew the intent of this particular section or not is irrelevant. Using the term “writer” for this piece is inaccurate, and I could see how that is offensive to other wirters.
I really don’t feel like quibbling over the definition of “writing,” Buzz. You don’t like Leitch, that’s fine.
p.s. As someone who makes his living as a writer, I’m a lot more offended that you see fit choose who’s a member of my profession and who’s not based on your personal preferences than I am how that particular publication chooses to title its contributors.
what can I say? I aim to please.
In that case, well done.
Just note that the only one getting personal here is you. Anonymity or not, that is not exactly a professional display of your profession, now is it?
Huh?
I fail to see what’s personal about it, and it’s not going to continue, despite your best attempts.
Well, it’s the very first thing he’s done for the magazine in his new role. And he’s technically an editor there now, so I imagine he’d be writing longer articles in the future. He’s written longer articles for them and other publications in the past.
curious, in your opinion, are they any good?
Don’t get me wrong, I want to like this guy, but I’m really having a hard time.
Half of what you read in newspapers or ‘legitimate’ news media isn’t ‘writing’. They merely have more qualifications, but that doesn’t make them better.
I don’t know who Buzz bBissinger is, but he’s wrong. That’s like saying there are more dumb people in New York than in Helena, Montana. There are just more people. Same with sports coverage, there is just so much more of it that some of it is inevitably dumb. However, this oversaturation also helps expose those dumb guys, whereas the old system let the average fan think these idiots were intelligent and insightful.
that’s a great point. the sample size is exponentially greater, these days.
Jerry Manuel is very serious about his role. He reminds me of the actor Morgan Freeman. Separated at birth!
morgan freeman neevr let sme down with one of his roles, lets see if manuel does the same
You liked him in Hard Rain?
randy quaid is in that so it doesnt count.
whens the next Approval rating? Im definitely giving jerry a vote of confidence, I like te job he’s done. And his post game interviews dont make me want to pull my hair out using the same cliches over and over and over again.
I’m at about a 3 for him.
As for Jerry, he fits simply because Willie did not fit. He comes in and replaces a round peg that couldn’t fit into the square hole. Jerry is benefiting from following a situation (and predecessor) that honestly couldn’t get any worse.
One thing that Jerry brings to the mix for for sure is this…we are back talking about baseball for once. That was impossible with the 2008 WIllie considering his legacy of being outmanaged in the 2006 NLCS, and leading the 2007 sinking ship.
He’s doing a good job, but the consistency with this team is still lacking. A win tonight will really help exorcise the demons we have against PHL. And we all know that does not happen with Willie in the dugout.
yes, since jerry stepped in, i have been thinking less baout the collapse. that will follow willie the rest of his career. we just needed to get that yankee out of shea and things will turn around.
Of course not..because Willie didn’t win 4-2 against them right? And the Mets didn’t have a winning record against them at this point last year? They oculd’ve gotten away from the collapse (which is on their minds and ours until they’re in the playoffs) simply by affirming his status as manager for the year and firing the coaches. The only thing different about this Phillies series if Willie was here is they probably win the first game because Willie seemed to trust Santana beyond 95 pitches.
Willie Randolph could not get out of his own way. And that was a hinderance on this team’s ability to move past last year. Whether Willie brought it on himself, or was unfarily under the spotlight of media/fan scrutiny all year is irrelevant. Willie in the dugout calling the shots was a distraction.
I’m not saying Jerry is the answer, but he is a better answer than Willie b/c the focus is no longer on Willie. It is now finally about the players playing the the game of baseball.
And if you can’t see that, I don’t know what else to tell you.
Is Manuel a better fit? Perhaps but isn’t it too early to proclaim him being the rightful heir to any Shea legacy ? I mean, we just scratched oursleves back to .500 for Pete sake.
I guess i like manuel more based on he has had managerial experiance before and i think it shows in flashes. I have yet to see the “major” changes he’s been talking about and i havent really seen the roles defined in the bullpen strictly used more than willie. We will see if manuel gets the job in 09 but he would have to get this team rolling and he has the whole 2nd half to do so.
The jury is still out on Jerry. Pulling Santana the other day was a Willie-esque move if I ever saw one. But his manner of in-game substitution is far more refined and creative than Randolph’s–something he’s showing every day.
Plus, he’s giving Chavez more time in the outfield, which is great, imo. Sure, Endy doesn’t hit much, but I’d rather have a Gold Glover with a mediocre bat playing than an out-of-position former infielder with a mediocre bat (uh, Marlon Anderson, your table is ready…).
I’m not convinced Jerry is the long-term answer, but I AM convinced he’s better than Randoph by a wide margin.
the team hasnt played any differently since Manuel has been coach, they teeter around .500 baseball and the offense stil lstruggles in half the games and Wagner still blows saves, really the only difference since the firings has been Ollie, more power to Dan Warthen for that.
as far as the “defined roles” in the pen…did Jerry have to come out and say it? did willie use the pen any differently? duaner was the 8th inning, and we had the 2 specialists, just cause Willie didnt say it in a press release….it was the same, nothing different.
Lastly, I am shocked a contributor to this site is saying anything positive about anyone in the Mets brass since they havent called up their personal hero and savior Val Pascucci….
Exactly. Willie didn’t say it almost because he didn’t want guys becoming complacent and it wasn’t a hard and fast rule.
The thing I found most about Willie was that when he did make the playoffs in ‘06, he used the experience from the regular season to define roles and use guys how they’d shown they were best fitted.
Manuel has nothing to lose, and so far it’s just been different. Not better, but probably not worse either. I hope he’s gone no matter what after this year though. Fresh start, with Wright captain and a strong manager backing him up.
If you think Manuel is the right man to lead the team next season and beyond, you’re nuts.
I refer to the other night, when he removed Johan for reasons known only to him.
He’s a breath of fresh air personality-wise, but NOT a very good manager, sorry
I like JM and I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Also, there is usually more to the decisions made than what meets the eye.
Still, I have to question the playing of Aguila and Marlon Anderson in LF. Neither show me anything defensively and Anderson has sucked offensively, while the jury is out on Aguila. However, I’m not expecting anything, nor is anyone else. Tatis should be there if for nothing but his offense.
Haven’t agreed with the PH moves either, with Anderson getting the majority of the AB’s.
The flip side says the JM seems to have a great deal more respect and support of the players. I’m sure enjoying watching them more, versus wondering whether or nor Willie gives a sheee-aht.
If the Mets make the playoffs this year after over a year of .500 play, there is no doubt that Manuel comes back, if for no other then at least a one year deal. Jerry walking to the mound yesterday shouting praise to Pedro the entire time after Feliciano’s clutch 3 pitch strikeout to Ryan Howard in the 8th was all you need to know about his fire and will to lead this team to success. We’ve never seen that out of Willie in his 3.5 years here, getting excited about something mid game, other than his little half-smile when a HR would be hit. Jerry the OG!
“Feliciano’s clutch 3 pitch strikeout to Ryan Howard”???
LOL….are you joking? In case you havent heard Howard strikes out more than anybody in baseball and a monkey couldve struck him out. And Jerry Manuel pumping his fist for Pedro Feliciano hardly makes him a good replacement as manager….
Runner in scoring position, 8th inning, 1 out, mets held a 1-0 lead, whether Howard leads the league in strike outs or not, he got those 60+ Rib eye steaks somehow and he didn’t get one yesterday. Yes that is clutch. He wasn’t pumping his fist either, you must have been watching Joba and those shanks.
tell that to Willie and Guillermo Mota last August.
Will Leitch is no longer with DeadSpin?
Please. I hope we are smart enough not to buy into more media fluff. Neither Jerry Manuel or Willie Randolph have shown that this club is anything more than it is, a mediocre ball club. A nice article in New York magazine will not turn Jerry Manuel into Gil Hodges. Bottom line is that Jerry Manuel is NOT a good fit for this team past this year. We cannot fall into the trap of giving him a long term contract as manager just because he just happened to be the bench coach when Willie got fired. The whole team needs to be revamped after this season, including giving the heave-ho to Manuel and reloading this team for the future. That includes getting a new managerial staff. This team needs a disciplinarian, a task-master….someone to kick these guys rear-ends. Jerry Manuel is NOT the answer. Bobby V are you listening????
If anyone complains about Santana getting pulled the other day or a guy like Aguila (Agbayani jr) playing on this team…and then states their love for Bobby V they should no longer be allowed to post..
I mean you are tlaking about the guy who ran John Franco or Benitez out there every single night he could, the guy who continuously sat players if they hit in 5 straight games, sometimes he would make double switches when it made more sense NOT to do them….Bobby V always made moves that if Metsblog was aroudn back then we’d all bash him on this board today, he always made moves that were bound to fail 80% of the time BUT since they were so “idiotic” that if they worked…he was a genius!!! the guy was a complete narcissist and if it wasnt for him we wouldntve had to “go in the opposite direction” and hire the worthless Art Howe afterwards…
history revision is fun.
Bobby V took a team of scrubs (Piazza being the exception) to the playoffs 2 years in a row (the only manager in Mets history to do so) , not to mention getting to the World Series. And to say that we got Art Howe because of Bobby V is essentially ignorance. The only thing Willie Randolph did was tease us in 2006 and took us not only to mediocrity but embarrassment in 2007. Jerry Manuel is Willie stepped up a notch. Which is an improvement over Willie, but not the right move overall, nonetheless. Major changes needed for this club to get where it needs to go. Manuel is not the answer…..
Revise this pal…..for all his flaws (and yes, even Bobby V mega-fans like me know there were many) Bobby V took a team to the WS that neither Willie or Jerry would be able to coax 82 wins out of, guaranteed.
Clint Hurdle took a team that was worse than any team Bobby V ever coached and put them in the world series, is he a great manager too??? no. Yeah Bobby V had 2 good years of coaching in his career and one of them is directly, beyond the shadow of a doubt, related to Mike Hampton.
Playing “his guys” Agbayani and Timo Perez in the playoffs killed us in 00 worse than leaving that bum Mota in for one inning in game 2 of the NLCS…oh and when given guys like Alomar, Vaughn, Rickey and all the other guys who we now have Delgado, Alou and Castillo as replicas…Bobby V managed to do much much much worse than Willie ever did….oh yeah, and Bobby V had talent in his pens, whereas the Mets havent had any since Duaner went down in 06….he’s a shell of himself and the other guys just aint too great either…
Yeah, revise it again.
I think it is too early to tell if Jerry is the right guy. I’d like to see wher we are in another 20-30 games. If we are still at .500, then maybe another direction is needed. if we move 5-6 games over .500, then we’ll be making a race of it and I think the cloud over Shea dissolves a bit.
He does have a little Bobby V in him. He’s deflecting stuff onto himself and letting his players play. I think guys respond to this type of manager.
I have long been a supporter of Willie since I felt the main culprit has been Omar … and Willie, nor his coaches deserved to lose their jobs.
However, I like Manuel’s personality a whole lot better. And some of the things he does, I like better too. Such as rewarding and playing the hot player more than Willie would do.
However, the problem wasn’t Willie. Never was. And this team even if it makes the playoffs will not go far — unless they make some tweaks to the roster, as I’ve always maintained.
But you have to admit that the mere presence of Willie was a distraction. With merit or not, it was a distraction.
Considering this media market and the loud passion of the fans, Omar and the Wilpons should have seen this coming as opposed to making Willie walk the plank for nearly 80+ games this season. Willie was in a no win situation, and should have been cut last October.
Most everyone in baseball eventually wear out their welcome, some sooner than later. There are not too many managers that have the job security that Bobby Cox or Tony LaRussa seem to have. Even Gil Hodges, had he lived, would have eventually been replaced.
In any case, I think that managers get way too much credit or blame for what happens on the field. A single play can dictate the outcome of an entire season (Bill Buckner anyone?), and who really has any control over that?
Even Gil Hodges, had he lived, would have eventually been replaced.
Blasphemer! Blasphemer! (AC makes warding off evil sign)
Notice that I said, “replaced”, not fired.
“There are not too many managers that have the job security that Bobby Cox or Tony LaRussa”
The reason they HAVE job security is because they win. Bobby Cox won 15 consecutive division titles and a WS, and La Russa wins wherever he goes. Willie Randolph only brought us dashed hopes and a dubious place in history as choke-artists……..definitely a reason to “wear out their welcome…”
And as for Gil Hodges….a pox on you for even mentioning the man in a negative light….RIP Gil……..
i dont think bobby cox is as good as media makes him to be. their is no talk about why he has not won. THERE PITCHING COACH. once he left cox done nothing. good manager but nothing w/o his pitching coach
“I dont think bobby cox is as good as media makes him to be”
The media?? LOL…..his record stands for itself, he doesnt need the media to “make him” anything. 15 straight division titles and a WS is not just having a good pitching coach.
Again. I said “replaced”, not fired or let go. No one can live forever, and Gil’s legend continues just like JFK.
Should read: ” … and Willie, and his coaches, didn’t deserve to lose their jobs”
The past is the past.
Going foward, this feels better alrerady and I could see JM being our guy for some time to come.
i feel the mets need a agressive manager, like ozzie guieen. u need someone to lite a fire up under their ——–
New coach, same team.
I’ve been hearing this same sentiment on the radio, etc.
But – whether there is a new managerial style or not (and I’m not so sure), the results are the same. And, I’m all for giving Manuel a fair block of games on which to “rate” him, but I wouldn’t say things are turned around. if it wasn’t for a great pitching performance by Ollie Perez, Mets could have just as easily gone into tomorrow looking at losing 3 of 4 to the Phils – and I wonder what we’d be saying then?
Jerry’s results aren’t better than Willie’s. So, I’ll hold out until a few more weeks (at least).
My guess is the Mets will continue to play .500 ball or just slightly over, and win about 86 games… will that be enough for the division title? Possibly. The Phillies pitching sucks, and Pat Burrell is good for one long slump every year, that hasn’t come yet in 2008.
I don’t think the Mets will make the playoffs. It would be shocking if they do.
I’m kind of enjoying that aspect now. We started the season believeing we were the best, and have dropped that idea as time and games disproved it. So now I, like many fans, have also dropped my expectations, and presto changeo, the year’s exciting again. The phillies cannot run away with this division. they’re too flawed. outside of crazy luck (good or bad), it should at least be a competitive year. I can get behind that.
Jamie, I agree that now that I’ve dropped my expectations of the Mets as a “shoo in” for the playoffs, it’s shaping up to be a competitive second half that will be engaging to watch.
In that regard and in connection with the basic issue of this particular blog, while I think it’s too early to weigh in on Jerry Manuel’s performance, I will say that I believe the competitiveness of the Mets that’s been evident over the last several games since Willie’s departure is due to Manuel’s influence. I won’t bore you with the details of how he’s different from Willy but just to sort of short list’em: Manuel is fired up and shows it on the field; he’s made bold moves and appears intent on making more in order to find a formula that will make this team at least incrementally more successful, and he’s publicly saying not-so-subtle, indeed, provacative things that let you and his players know that he expects more out of this team and will do what it takes to get that more.
The one thing that I see from Manuel that I like the most at this point is that his own ego isn’t nearly as boldly on display as Willy’s was. He’s willing to let his ego go whereas Willy was not. As stated in the Comment by the blogger identified as “Gland” above (2008-07-07 12:08:04), Manuel: “seems more comfortable with himself than Willie did. Willie seemed like he was a bit insecure and he was trying to cover it by being stoic and being ‘a winner.’”
To add to this point by Gland about Willy’s insecurity, he seemed to me to be always sort of competing on an ego level with his own players. As bizarre as it sounds — to me there was always a kind of undercurrent or subtext to Willy’s comments through which you could perceive that he was trying to show us all that he was a better ball player than any of the players on the Mets roster even though he was the manager and was no longer competing on the field. You could just feel it. In addition, as Gland sort of indicated above, because of his insecurity Willy was always sort of trying to show off his Yankee pedigree in an effort to impress.
Along the same lines, one of Willy biggest faults I think, indeed perhaps his biggest, was that he tried to emulate Joe Torre’s managerial style but didn’t have a team with the offensive talent that Torre’s Yankees did.
I must say I am not a Yankees fan — in fact, put lightly, I’m the antithesis of same. But, let’s face it, the Yankees have paid for 5 or 6 of the 10 to 20 best offensive players in baseball, and as high as the Mets payroll may be right now they have not flat-out bought that quanitity or quality level of offensive talent. Joe Torre’s laid back style was a product of the fact that as Yankees’ manager he could sit back and wait for all that offensive talent to start winning games because, over the long haul, it would eventually come around and do so in big way. Willy wasn’t in the same position because he didn’t have that volume or quality of offensive talent but he always managed as if he did.
In a huge game that the Mets absolutely had to have, they came out sharp offensively and defensively and really took it to the Phillies early. This is a very good sign that Jerry could provide the spark that is missing on the field and (up til now) in the clubhouse. I think he is much more interested in motivating and getting the most out of his players directly than Willie was.