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In the ninth inning, with two outs and the Mets up two, Carlos Beltran fielded Pedro Feliz’s single and attempted to throw out the runner going to third.
Jerry Manuel, on team’s overall defense last night, as well as Beltran’s play:
“We made some fundamental mistakes, no question…I think he probably honestly felt that he had a legit shot, that’s the only reason.”
Manuel then agreed that, even if Beltran had a legitimate shot at throwing out the runner, it’s not a play he should make given the situation.
Beltran, on the play, speaking with reporters in the clubhouse after the game:
“I felt I made a good throw. It just, uhh, David was trying to tag the guy and the ball went by him.”
It was then pointed out to Beltran that ’some people’ think it is a play he should not have made, with his team up two runs with two outs, to which he said, “Well, you’re not a baseball player, that’s why…I felt that if he would have caught the ball, the guy wouldn’t have gone to second.”
…beltran is suggesting that by throwing ahead of the runner, it would have kept the batter from advancing from first to second, i think, which makes no sense…
For more on Beltran’s throw, check out Joe Janish at Mets Today.
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carlos is getting too much crap for this. Bruntlett had no business running. if he guns him down there the game is over .
Agreed. The fact is, it was a close play at third, and if Bruntlett was tagged out he would be getting killed right now. Plus, if it was such a bad play, why didn’t Wright just try to catch it or knock it down, instead of doing a swipe tag?
and wagner wasn’t backing up either …
Agreed completely – an out is an out. If he guns him down there, Wagner doesn’t ever have to face Werth….and Bruntlett is rightly getting the crap. Imagine if he makes the last out at third as a meaningless run? That was the bad baseball play.
Why is Beltran throwing his teammate under the bus? That comment infuriated me. DWright has ALWAYS defended his teammates, even when they make bonehead plays – and Beltran’s throw was bonehead all the way!
Is he trying to blame Wright on the play?
Bottom line, it was a bad play by Beltran — simple as that.
This all ties into the “accountability” thing we’ve been talking about with this team…no one’s exempt from criticism, Carlos.
Be a man about it.
It was a bad play all around. Bad pitch on 0-2 by Wagner, bad decision by Beltran to make that throw, bad play by Wright to not at least knock the ball down, and bad play by Wagner to not back up on the play.
But the Mets won, so let’s not make a huge deal out of this.
biggest single problem: not backing up the throw. where on earth was wagner?
Wagner was backing up home plate, which is where he should have been. Bruntlett made a bad decision by going for third, although it paid off.
bottom line-YOUR NOT A BASEBALL PLAYER lol j/k
Yeah — that’s some response by Beltran. Will definitely win him some points with the media…..
He shouldn’t be shocked next time they sack him.
He’s right. These writers learn their baseball from books, not from playing. Bruntlett is not ‘meaningless’ (I called him such above – apologies there). To the Phillies he is a run closer to tying it and to the Mets he is a potential out. Beltran saw a baserunning gaffe in front of him and went for the out….I have no problem with it. Wright is the one who needed to know the situation, and once he saw it was offline he needed to make sure to catch the ball, and yes, Wagner needed to be backing it up.
It was an aggressive play by Beltran….this team has been far too tentative all season. he had a great chance to end the game there.
The more pressing issue is not this error. It’s the horrible call on Howard’s double.
truuee that!
how is that pressing? it has nothing to do with the team’s play, and we escaped. if we had lost i’d agree with you
well if the umps would have made the call right and assuming heilman got out of the inning..we would not have even seen wags. But like you said we won so w/e helped my fantasy team lol
And if Tony Armas wasn’t on the team, we probably wouldn’t have seen Wags either.
can we have Claudio Vargas back please?
ah your right it was tony not heilman my bad
Can’t get on Carlos because his defense is otherwise stellar all season, every season. Much ado about nothing. Well, maybe not nothing. But put in perspective, it’s a little thing.
Ah! That’s what I like to see after taking 3 of 4 from the division leaders! More throwing fellow teammates under the bus!
Great! Makes my heart feel all warm and fuzzy!
Say, tell ya what, next time… DON’T BLOW A 10-1 LEAD!!!
Offense works in mysterious ways and finally manages to blow an opponent out, yet here comes the pen to give it back.
But wait! Already having scored 10 runs, Damon Easley feels that it’s OK to just trot on home and walk softly into the catchers glove rather than stay at 3rd and give the next batter an opportunity to drive him in.
Gary talks about Philly now maybe wanting to take out starters in order to get bench players some time in, yet he seems to forget that this is the Mets and the team they are facing never give up, even when down by 9 runs.
Then as the team sees their once cushy lead slip away little by little, players like Beltran make awful decisions like trying to throw out a runner at 3rd that doesn’t mean anything because he’s panicking. And I understand. He is tired of his team making all the bad headlines and being the laughing stock of MLB. But making a play like that is what makes people think that way.
Then to top it off, he throws Wright under the bus and makes comments like, “Well, you’re not a baseball player…” in response to certain “people” thinking his throw was not a good idea.
Huh. Correct me if I’m wrong here, not only did Mex criticize Beltran for that awful throw, but he needed to channel every ounce of self control he could possibly muster in order to not come right out and call him a total bone head! And for Beltran’s information… Keith Hernandez is one of the greatest defensive players of all time. Which means that at one time (and not all that long ago), he was a BASEBALL PLAYER.
Now how bout they all shut their yaps and go out there and take at least 4 of the next 6. Is that possible? Hmm?
you’re not a baseball player.
Well I agree with Keith, and he was one of the best to ever play his position. Darling also took him to task on that play as well, also noting what a dunce Bruntlett was for even attempting to take third there.
Ah! A true tragedy of errors!
i agree as well. just pointing out, again, how ridiculous beltran’s comment was.
I could understand the idea that Bruntlett shouldn’t have been running, but he was going full steam and made it with plenty of time. Could it be that Bruntlett was very sure that he would make it to 3rd base and that’s why he did it? A baseball player being decisive and making a good play! (Let me guess: what IF he got thrown out. what IF he ended the game at 3rd with the winning run at the plate. what IF the mets could go up 8-0 and cruise to an easy win. what IF this team played to expectations)
Aguayo never should have sent Easley there. If he held him up, then our best hitter (Reyes) gets a crack with the bases loaded. And facing Swindell, Reyes would have gotten to hit from his stronger side. Making the third out at the plate there was dumb. Almost as dumb as sending Tony Armas back out to pitch the 6th inning.
The reason Easley slowed up was because he got no indication from his teammate that was standing behind home plate that there was going to be a play on him. It’s the responsibility of that player to indicate to Easley that he needs to slide because there is a play on him. Who was that player behind plate? None other than Carlos Beltran.
But then again, we are not the baseball players, he i
He should grow a pair and acknowlege his mistakes and not throw his teammates under the bus.
As everyone has stated it was a bad play all around, including Bruntlett’s decision to even go to 3rd because making the 3rd out there would of be inexcusable as well.
With all that said it’s a shame that this is even a story after a very good series for the mets.
Beltran should not have made the throw, but he probably thought he had an abnormally high chance of getting the runner. The riskiness of the play was compounded by Wagner’s failure to back up Wright there.
I hate Wagner; he talks so much s–t, and never backs it up. He doesn’t pitch well, he doesn’t play his position well, and then he talks trash about his teammates.
Does anybody remember a few weeks ago when there was a post on this site about another note in the clubhouse. It was after Santana was not circumspect with his comments about a Wright error, or getting run support following a good outing, and the next day there was a note that said something like the man who blames others can’t see his own faults? Does anybody doubt that was Wagner?
Why do the Mets keep this clubhouse cancer? I wish the Mets would trade him now.
Unless they say it was Wagner, don’t say it was. I hate when fans start spreading stuff like that. Like all that crap about Leiter and Franco getting Kazmir traded.
Yeah, I know Wagner left the Milledge note but there’s no indication he left a note for Santana.
And, yeah, I know Wagner’s been a crappy closer this year and doesn’t belong in the all-star game, but don’t make him out to be worse than he is.
umm…
wagner has been a clubhouse cancer in every stop of his career before this one. his fallout in philly was incredibly ugly, he has a rep for talking trash about his teammates to the media, as you mentioned he left the milledge note. i don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to suspect him.
He wasn’t a cancer in Houston. I think he had a lot of friends there.
He wasn’t a cancer in 2006 when he was pitching well either. I guess he’s only a cancer when he blows games, right?
Point is, there is NO — NONE, ZILCH — evidence that he left the Santana note. And if some fans like you keep saying he did, then pretty soon someone will be repeating it on talk radio and it takes on a life of its own.
Some fans actually believe to this day that Leiter-Franco were instrumental in getting Kazmir traded, which is pure poppycock.
i do enjoy the use of poppycock there.
It is a totally logically inference to draw that if person X did action Y in the past, and action Y happens again that person X did it again.
I hate Wagner for his performance, but also for his bulls–t stand-up guy routine, where he takes responsibility for errors. I mean how many times can you stink up a game and then tell the media, “Yeah, I blew tonight”? A stand-up guy starts performing well, and stops apologizing for poor performances.
Wagner, saying you suck doesn’t make up for sucking.
No, it’s not logical. Leaving a note in someone’s locker is not unique to any one person. That’s illogical to think it is.
Moreover, the tenor, style and literacy of the Santana note was dramatically different from the Milledge one.
I’m not saying Wagner is incapable of writing the second one, but his style is more redneck-blunt-coarse than the intelligent note left for Santana.
I’d be surprised if it were Wagner for that very reason.
As for him sucking, did it ever occur to you that he’s just too old to get it done consistently anymore? I mean, he’s 37, and players can’t even take greenies anymore.
I’m glad he says he sucks when he does. That he doesn’t make excuses. At least he doesn’t hide from it.
The organization just has to make adjustments in how they use him or they are just going to see more and more blown saves int he coming months.
actually you might have a point about the writing style of the note. the fact that it was cogent english would seem to rule wagner out as a suspect.
LOL, right. I mean, c’mon. Even when Wagner speaks, he’s all redneck. That note left for Santana was way more literate than what I think Wagner is capable of. It just wasn’t his style, even if he is capable of thinking like that.
I don’t think its fair to assume Wagner left the Santana note. Besides it wasn’t really put in his locker, it was posted up in the clubhouse as a reminder to everyone to act right, and it may have actually been there before the Santana whining. If it actually was in his locker, it would have been blown up into a much bigger story than it was.
And that note seemed way too philosophical for Billy anyway. I don’t think he is a “clubhouse cancer” he speaks his mind and some people might not like him for it, but he just gets ticked when his team doesn’t play up to its potential. I don’t think he’s said anything this yr that was that bad. I don’t care if he talks when guys don’t play well or not, he just need to pitch better, A lot better.
From what we hear, these guys act like complete girls in the clubhouse. Leaving a note in Milledge’s locker? I’d rather have Wagner punch him in the face and break his nose to set him straight rather than leave girly notes in his locker.
Also, Beltran, c’mon. You’re in the process of blowing a 10-0 lead, and you’re letting runners take the extra base to get into scoring position. Defend yourself by saying that you thought you had a shot at it but should not have made the throw. Don’t bring others into this. Eat some blame for a change.
bingo.
Like complete girls? It is an insult that is often directed at males and I think applies to them as often as it does to boys…find another simile, please.
Sorry I meant to say it applies to males as often as it does to females…you get my point.
I agree with Beltran………Wright SHOULD HAVE caught the ball. He missed it like he always does.
Terrible job by Beltran…as it boils down to a poor decision to throw.
He then blames Wright (granted there’s no reason for David to try to “make a play” there as Bruntlett was flat-out safe) — he has GOT to come off the base to make sure the throw doesn’t get by him.
Either way, though — Feliz is going to second on that throw….so it’s just a bad decision by Beltran.
Every once in a while he’ll make a play like that and you are left to wonder WTF is going on. Understandable, we know you like to showcase your arm….but pick the right spots.
That was a crucial point in the game, and there’s no need to left Philly further back into it. “My bad” — turn the page, move on.
Non-story, but our guys don’t seem to be the most media-savvy.
it must be because im not a baseball player that i thought you swing the bat in the 9th inning of game 7 of the NLCS w/ 2 strikes and the tying and winning runs on base
beltran’s throw was better than anything wagner was throwing.
Wagner was lucky he didn’t blow another save last night…. very lucky.
Although Beltran was wrong in throwing, can someone explain to me why Wright completely missed the ball? He needs to use any body part to keep that ball in front of him. Its just as much on Wright as it is on Beltran.
ron darling basically said after the play that there were too many things that went wrong to call out each and every offender in time. so let’s recap.
wagner grooves an 0-2 pitch to BRUNTLETT
Beltran decides to throw to third
Wright alligator-arms the ball
Wagner not backing up the throw.
excuse me. feliz hit the ball, not bruntlett. there needs to be an edit function on the comments.
As usual my friend, you are spot on!
“beltran is suggesting that by throwing ahead of the runner, it would have kept the batter from advancing from first to second, i think, which makes no sense…”
that is NOT what he is suggesting…he’s saying that if Wright had caught the ball instead of trying to catch and tag at the same time, THEN the runner wouldn’t have advanced.
Beltran is saying he wasn’t wrong for throwing to third, Wright is wrong for not catching it.
He has a bit of a point, but not enough to offset making the throw in the first place.
and not to mention that he shouldn’t be talking like that about wright to the press, even if it’s 100% true.
agreed
I am glad Beltran called it the way it was.
I agree with your assessment of what he said….
However, the only way wright was getting the out there was to hurry the way he did. If he ensured he made the catch (like he should have…given the stupid throw by beltran) the runner was safe anyway.
Sure, Beltran is right by saying….oh if Wright catches the ball…the guy doesn’t advance. It doesn’t mean it was a smart throw to make……because it was stupid
Though according to a couple articles, the runner had already started breaking for 2nd once Beltran released the throw. So obviously the 9th run wouldn’t have scored, but the tying run could have moved up anyway.
Beltran, Wright and Wagner all screwed up on the play, but it the end they won, so no harm no foul. Just don’t make the same mistake again.
I’m surprised people aren’t more disturbed by Beltran immediately blaming Wright. Wright is, at least partially, at fault but it would be nice to see Beltran take some blame for once. For a team that’s trying to build character, finger pointing is not a good technique.
LOL at Beltran and anyone defending his play. Sure there were other mistakes too, but his mistake is such a fundamental error that the Mets should schedule him for a serious mental examination if he thinks he did the right thing there.
Another thing about this idiot — I was at the game last night, right behind home plate. On the play where Easley got thrown out at home, Beltran scored just ahead of him. You know what Beltran was doing as Easley was trying to score, and as Coste deked him into thinking there was no play? Beltran just stood there watching. No attempt to tell Easley to slide. No hand gestures telling Easley to slide. Nothing. He just stood there, watching. And Easley went into home plate, weakly, and got tagged out.
Would Easley have scored if he slid? Maybe. Would he maybe have run harder down the line? Maybe. I don’t know. The point is that it’s another basic error from this overrated dog. Tell the guy coming down the line that he has to slide. It’s not that hard. Don’t just stand there.
Well, Wright never takes responsibility for any of his errors so somebody has to call him out. Good for Beltran!
LOL now thats not true
We all know that Beltran’s decision there was a bad one. But, that happens from time to time and he’s a great defensive center fielder (and normally, a smart one), so I can’t get on him about that all that much.
And, I’ll buy an argument that says that Wright should have caught that ball, and I would go so far as to say he also didn’t realize how poor a decision it was by Beltran and how little that runner going to third meant because he didn’t come off the bag and block it at all costs – he tried to make the sweep tag to get an out.
BUT, Beltran throwing Wright under the bus is pretty bad. And this stuff happens all too often on this team. Honestly, it makes it tough to root for a bunch of guys who are constantly publicly bashing each other. It’s clear they don’t have strong comradery, and certainly clear that Wright isn’t the respected leader in the clubhouse (no one is at this point).
they all aggressively tried to make a big play. except Wagner, who preferred to watch from the best seat in the house. i can’t fault anyone here, especially since we won. too many people put too much pressure on the Mets to make a big play and then attempt to ridicule the players when they try to make the play. if Beltran felt he could have nailed Brutnlett at 3rd (and to me it looked like he could have), i want him to make the throw.
I thought that even with the throw, the runner would have been safe anyway. I questioned Beltran’s throw because if David Wright would have caught the ball and tagged the runner, i think he would have been safe.
I was curious about Beltran comments about David…so I read the Metstoday.com story- and it infuriates me…I can read that kind of crap (even if mixed with truth) on the PHillies websites…After all the METS gave us over the past 4 days, including the tummy aches, the agony, and ultimately, a new and improved, never give up TEAM…is it really necessary to burn Carlos at the stake!?!? Insult his English!?!? Forget that he’s not the only person on the team who has spoken out of frustration? I support free speech, so with that…I’ll resign myself to knowing that some Mets fans are just too angry to Enjoy a few hours of “not sucking”….argh..
LET’S GO METS!
Yeah, me too. Apart from what you think about Beltran’s throw or his justifications, the posturing is absurd (3000 games!!). And when a person has spent his life in English-speaking schools, he just has no business dissing the language skills of non-native speakers. Really the mark of a small mind. I am SO tired of Janish.
I heard the interview last night with Beltran on post game. Some reporter flat out asked him something to the effect of explaining ‘your stupid throw’…..Stupid being the operative word and clearly heard. I think Beltran lashing out saying ‘well you’re not a ball player’ was a reaction to that incredible poorly worded question. I’m not saying one way or the other if the throw was valid or not, nor will I judge his wording that many of you think was throwing Wright under the bus. I think it was a long, frustrating game and he just reacted to the way that question was asked. Yeah, they’re getting paid to put up with that and deal with media accordingly. But….no matter how much these guys are getting paid, they’re just human also.
I think too many of us are expecting perfection from these guys and are holding them to a higher standard than is possible.
Just saying…..(as I prepare for the backlash I’m likely to get on my opinion on this).
Joe Janish is not acting like a Mets supporter if he’s placing this event under a magnifying glass and turning it into a “court” type discussion.
Beltran’s culture and heritage is one of pride. He knows when he makes mistakes but it’s not his nature (and shouldn’t be) to ‘fess and apologise. Frankly, the issue was not worth bringing up unless you want to undermine the guys confidence.
Many of you don’y understand how hard Beltran tries to play and hit well. he tries and practices so hard that it sometimes can be to his detriment. Focusing on an issue like this doesn’t gain anything.
I have no respect for Joe Janish. His comment about grammar and speech shows a lack of repect for other cultures.
“Many of you don’y understand how hard Beltran tries to play and hit well. he tries and practices so hard that it sometimes can be to his detriment. ”
Please tell us how you know this.
adanp,
I know this because there was a large news article discussing how he was coming to the park early and taking (opinion in the article) too much time practicing. There was a hint of frustration on Beltran’s part but an overzealous attempt to correct his swing (read almost like OCD)
Agreed. Joe’s approach is to assume the role of a pompous and aggorant judge, using mock formality by calling him “Mr. Beltran”, insulting his grammar and even his character, and even having the gall to say to Beltran that “Baseball isn’t your strength.”
If this joke of an article is any indication, Beltran plays baseball much much better than Janish writes, it’s not even a contest. I don’t just dislike the article, but now I despise the writer.
You can question the decision to make the throw, but Beltran’s instincts are usually good, and this attack is completely ridiculous.
I don’t understand the criticism.
DAVID WRIGHT SHOULD HAVE PUT HIS BODY IN FRONT OF THAT BALL.
Great throw? no but not horrible. You learn this in high school. Block the Fin ball and not let it get behind you, especially in that situation.
If he blocks it, Bruntlett is still on third.
First I mean.
That article by this Jarnish character was unbelievably petty and borderline racist. Its one thing to get on his case for his decision making and his attitude which is totally fair. But why attack his English? It’s not his first language and he is there trying to do his best to provide good answers in a language he isnt as fluent in. His English is not to the point where you cant understand him. I’m just a bit disgusted that this bigot’s link is displayed as if it was something that was well written and fair when it reeked of jealousy and unfounded hatred.
Janish’s article is pompous and doesn’t really bring much in the way of analysis. Linking to it was a waste of space, IMO.
Either it was a bad play for Bruntlett to run or a bad play for Beltran to throw. It can’t be both.
If it’s a bad play by Bruntlett, then it’s bad because of the risk of being thrown out. This risk is only significant enough to worry about if Beltran’s trying to make the throw is a good idea.
beltran is a great talent, but he’s a bad baseball player. terrible approach at the plate far too often, too many baserunning gaffes, and plays like this where he doesn’t even understand why what he did was the wrong play.