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I wrote a post on the Mets’ upcoming trade deadline decisions and outfield situation today at SNY.tv that goes into much further detail, but I’m hoping to get Mets fans to think about whether Fernando Martinez is really ready for the bigs. An excerpt:
The Teenage Hurting Hitting Machine is batting .294 with a pedestrian .338 on-base percentage in Double-A. People have pointed to the midseason callups of David Wright and Jose Reyes, but there are very few similarities between those and F-Mart’s current situation.
Both players were older than Martinez when they joined the big-league club, and both had proven themselves at higher Minor League levels than Martinez has. Reyes hadn’t done a ton to earn his promotion, but he plays shortstop — a position at which less-than-stellar offensive production is justifiable. Left field, not so much. And neither Wright nor Reyes was thrust into an environment anything like the pressure-cooker the Mets are currently steaming in. If they absolutely must promote F-Mart, they should start by moving him to Triple-A and work from there.
Don’t get me wrong: I like Martinez and I think he’s going to be a good player. Heck, for all I know he’s a Hall of Famer. The sky’s the limit. After all, he’s only 19 years old and he’s the third-best hitter on his Double-A team. On the other hand, he’s only 19 years old and he’s the third-best hitter on his Double-A team. He’s struck out 48 times this year against only 13 walks. If big-league scouts got the book on him, F-Mart would whiff enough to make Adam Dunn look like Tony Gwynn.
Again, not trying to hate on the guy — he’s very advanced for his age. I just get the feeling that a lot of Mets fans are hoping he can provide a lot more in 2008 than he’s currently capable of.
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“I’m hoping to get Mets fans to think about whether Fernando Martinez is really ready for the bigs”
We’ve already though about it. He’s not ready.
I’ve seen a lot of people on here say to bring him up along with Carp and others. None of these guys are ready for the bigs.
Yup.
Bringing them up now would essentially equate to throwing them in the lion’s den with no armor, shield or weapons. We are in a HEATED pennant race. This is no time to be evaluating kids, giving them ABs at this level.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWN.
He’s 19. Not ready. Only the most delusional think so, and (including?) Tony Bernazard when he’s spewing his latest line of BS.
Sorry, maybe I’ve been listening to too much WFAN.
No, Ted, you’re right. There has been enough discussion on other platforms on this topic to merit you bringing it up here. And you’re totally right. The kid is not ready to be brought up. And seriously, what’s the rush? The team is playing good ball right now. No use in screwing that up by putting in an over-matched 19 year old that is not even lighting it up at the AA level.
Keep up the good work Daniel.
Speaking of Bernazard, does anybody have anything in writing or tangible that this guy has done to be such a “snake” as people call him. I have heard and read a lot of stories, but am not sure what to make of them. You never know what’s true.
In all fairness, the Wilpons seem sensible. Nobody makes the right decisions all of the time, but why would they keep him around if he was nothing but a snake in the grass? I posted this a while bag when Willie was fired and nobody had anything other than hearsay.
Where there is smoke there is fire. There has been way way too much negative press about him for there not to be something wrong.
Thanks, same response I got last time when I inquired on this. That is exactly my point, all I can find is “negative press.”
What else do you expect to find? Tape recordings of conversations? There are only anecdotes, e.g., the Willie firing escapades, Delgado negotiations, etc. Gotham Baseball did a story that was linked from here. I encourage you to look it up.
It is amazing though how that all has died down with wins.
It is a amazing how a 9 game winning streak clouds anecdotes.
Omar never denied it when Francesca and Mad Dog grilled him on that point on the FAN after Willie’s firing. Omar wouldn’t confirm it, but he wouldn’t outright deny it either.
From all accounts, the relationship between Randolph and Bernazard was frosty at best. And it’s certainly the type of thing that would have driven Willie crazy – and rightfully so.
Reports had it that Berzadard was seen gloating and buzzing all over the hotel lobby after the firing in LA.
Ya know, with all the cameras and microphones you’d think someone MIGHT have nailed ole Tony in one of his fits of Mr. Burnsism.
I am not suggesting that Randolph and Tony Bernazard got along. But Randolph, much as I did not think he was nearly as terrible as some, was without question one of the most worried guys I have ever seen as a manager, he seemed obsessed with the appearance of control but always acted as if people were out to get him.
you make some good points ted, but what happens when tatis and chavez go into their inevitable tailspin, and if we cannot get another OF
i dont believe Omar would be satisfied with a hole in the lineup
I WANT FMART
Plugging in FMart at LF isn’t going to fill that hole in the lineup. It’ll probably make it worse.
Look, at this point, Nick Evans is a better hitter than FMart. let’s give the kid more time instead of trying to rush him up now and disappoint everyone.
The issue is that it’s highly unlikely that FMart would provide anything resembling decent production. At 19, he wouldn’t fill a hole, he would be a hole. At this point if we can’t get anyone via trade we’re better off going with Tatis/Endy until they cool off, or another minor league fill-in (Pascucci, John Rodriguez, whoever).
Remember Pelfrey in 2006 when he was tossed into the rotation? I think he was 21 or 22 then. FMart is 19.
What makes a Chavez tailspin so inevitable?
He hit .306 through 350 ABs a couple of years ago.
I’m not saying he’s a viable full-time solution for LF, but he has shown that he can produce at his current level for a good chunk of the season.
People who are skeptical (as I was until yesterday) about FMart should compare what he is doing at AA to what Wright (A), Reyes (A/AA), HanRam (A), and Jay Bruce (A) were all doing at 19. It is eye opening, IMO.
right, and none of them were thrust into the major leagues at 19 except Reyes, and to say that did not come home to roost in 2004 is an under statement
Absolutely. No way should he be brought up now. Didn’t mean to imply that he should be!
All your points point to a developing player, not a MLB ready player.
Every other team thinks our farm stinks…yet we think we can just promote a couple of them to carry us to the postseason…….oh please….
They also thought Pelfrey was a “miss” what’s your point?
for starters that is the new york press and a portion of the scouts, and if every other team really thinks our minor league system stinks, promoting from within is really the only option anyhow, because we are unlikely to make some great trade then.
As much as I would like to see FMart up in the bigs, he really does need more polishing at Binghamton and N’awlins. He needs to play every day to do that, and he won’t get regular playing time at Shea.
I disagree. I think he is absolutely ready to be included in a trade for Adam Dunn.
Post your dealers number so I can get some of whatever has you that high.
It’s been chronicled: Adam Dunn is an ASOM.
. . . “Apathetic Strikeout Machine”
No way. I like Dunn but I wouldn’t even consider that, especially since Dunn is a rental.
We know.
Wake up and join the times, young super stars don’t play in AAA anymore.
Seen the kid in person a number of times the 2 yrs &
again, hes not even close!-maybe, maybe ready in 2010.
Seeing about 25 B-mets gms the last 2 yrs, he doesnt
stick out in any way,ave,
power,Speed or in the field.
+1
AA is the new AAA, AAA is a retirement home for career minor leaguers and injury replacements.
Sad it’s came to that but AAA is now the insurance league. It’s full of guys that used to play and are still holding on to hope that someone will pick them up.
It’s like a college degree, now a lot more people have them so a masters is the new college degree.
If anyone here says FMart is ready, you’re crazy. I saw him play @ Bingo and as much as I like him as a hitter, I want to see him prove that he can stay healthy (try to) for a full season minus the nagging injuries. In my eyes, FMart is a year away from the big show. If Tony Bernazard wants to spin his BS how FMart may be called up in the 2nd half, the man is DELUSIONAL!! Yes – I hope you are reading this Tony Bernazard. As you probably think in your head and world that you know more baseball than anyone else. The chances of you reading the post may be minimal, but I am sure someone else is probably telling you what they read and you can roll your eyes all you want. NOW – if the Mets were to acquire someone like Matt Holliday, I have a feeling it may involve someone like Jon Niese in the package and probably gut the farm system to get a year and a half of Matt Holliday with no guarantees you can sign him to a long-term extension other than getting two draft picks out of it.
Totally agree….a cup of coffee in September during callups as a reward is what we can expect to see from FMart this year….and maybe next year too.
He’ll start for us as a 21-year old.
starbucks maybe for the coffee this year. Unless of course we’re 10 out sept.1st. This guys not Gomez, he cant/wont be called up to pinch run.
LOL! No, I agree….I do think they’ll give him a taste at the end of the year when rosters expand….let him be around the guys when they clinch the NL East….maybe get an at bat or three.
I must agree. He turns 20 in October. We’re really looking at 09, and even then you can only hope he doesn’t get overwhelmed as a Rookie. We’re far away from F-Mart making a fantasy impact.
Ted (If that’s your real name), a few of us have brough up a possible trade with the Angels for Rivera and Morales. Any thoughts on that? It wouldn’t cost like a Holliday or Dunn trade and by filling up 2 everyday positions on the cheap, we could really go out and get SP next year in a good market.
According to mlb trade rumors Rivera isn’t available.
Just saw that, but also have seen that Omar is content to go with what he has. This time of year, you can believe NOTHING you read.
Not even close to being ready. I’ll be surprised if he is even “ready” before this time next year. I’d just as soon let this kid remain in AA for the rest of the season and then start him fresh in AAA in 2009. Let’s just hope that he can stay healthy for a long stretch for a change.
It seems as though International free agent signings move through the system and to the majors faster than draft picks, I think f-mart will do fine, but we should wait to bring him up. Speaking of international free agents, has anyone heard of any movement by the Mets.
FMart is the next Ricky Lede. Trade him while you can.
And this is based on……..?
22 year old Ledee finally getting the AA callup?
24-year old Ledee finally getting the big league callup?
I wouldn’t mind F-Mart going to the show for a bit. Why not show the kid a glimpse of what he should expect. As long as the coaching staff enforces that he will suck before hand ( and thats ok because he’s just 19 and its perfectly normal) and that no matter what he does he will go back to the minors, I think it will be fine. Knowing what to expect might make him work harder. If he does well during a 20 game stretch promote the kid to triple A. Done and Done.
Fmart should NOT play in AAA. There are no good prospects in AAA.
IF we plan on keeping him then bringing him up for a while is fine.
IF we plan on trading him then you do not let him near the MLB team.
NO MORE MILLEDGE TREATMENT. We got lucky in the deal we got for him.
What about Nelson Cruz though?
My roomate in college is now a starter for the ct defenders and has pitched against the B-mets several times. He said that f-mart is good, but that no one is ever as good as their hype and that he isnt close to being mlb ready at this point because he is so young. He said the best hitter on their team is danny murphy, interesting cause he has been passed up twice. In regard to Carp he said that he is dangerous because he is a lefty who can simply launch it when he get a hold of it.
Saw Martinez in Binghamton last month and said he is a year away. He hit a bomb opposite field on a changeup from a lefty but he struckout ugly in his first AB chasing a breaking ball in the dirt. Let me just say this though, he will be 2 or 3 times the player that Milledge or Gomez will be. Carp looks like another Chris Duncan in the making and was terrible in left. I plan going down to Binghamton(weather pending) friday night to see Martinez, Carp, and Murphy who was hurt, and see Niese pitch.
The fact is no one has any idea whether or not bringing him up will hurt his development. It could go great and it also could be a disaster. Hitting in double A is whole different ball of wax. Most of these pitchers have no control and have no command of the strike zone. When they do they are gone in a heartbeat. So promoting him to tripple A seems like the right move. Lets see what this kid can do against the MLB reserves.
Why do people not understand that AAA is not AAA anymore? You don’t want him there.
Why don’t you understand that people are free to disagree with you?
Darth, that is not a good assessment of why he is doing just okay in AA at all.
My the force be with you.
or MAY
He’s 19, he has yet to dominate any league he’s played in, and he has only had over 300 ABs once in 3 pro seasons. He does not appear to be ready yet except perhaps in the confidence category.
Agreed. He is not ready. We need to leave him alone and let him finish this season in AA. Then for 2009 sign a veteran to start the season that can be a bench player when Fmart arrives. Something like Ibanez.
OR
We need to trade him right now when he trade value is at a high.
I am actually fine with either move as long as the trade is for a guy who will start in LF this season and is signed at LEAST for next year. Holliday, Bay, etc.
prepare yourself…AGREED
The truth, however, is that Bernazard’s reputation has taken a pummeling. Take this for what it’s worth, but Wednesday, I received two phone calls from industry contacts — the first, a longtime friend of many Hispanic players, and the second, a scout from an American League team. Both, unsolicited, brought up Bernazard, both professed to not know him and both offered the same sentiment: “I hear he’s a really bad guy.”
To all of this, Minaya responded angrily and passionately. The Mets’ general manager, reached by phone Wednesday night, said, “I am convinced that Tony Bernazard’s intent has always been, ‘What can I do to help Willie Randolph?’”
Added Minaya: “Tony Bernazard is one of the brightest people, and one of the hardest-working people, I’ve ever been around.”
Minaya has been wrapped up in the notion of “perception” nowadays; it served as a dominant theme in his Tuesday news conference. So it’s worth noting Bernazard gives off a terrible perception.
He hangs around the clubhouse more than any front-office person I’ve ever seen, checking in with players — creating the perception that he served as a sympathetic ear to players who didn’t like Randolph.
When he’s not with the players, he can often be found with Mets COO Jeff Wilpon, who also took a gigantic hit from the Midnight Massacre. The two men are close. In spring training, they’ll sometimes share a golf cart.
Every time the Mets played the Nationals, Bernazard conversed extensively with Washington manager Manny Acta, the Mets’ former third-base coach, creating the perception that Bernazard wished that Acta was managing the Mets. To clear up any murkiness, Bernazard, who mostly avoids the limelight, conducted an interview with The Washington Post last September in which he effusively praised Acta’s managing skills.
And early Tuesday morning, when the hatchet fell on Randolph and the two coaches, Bernazard could be seen in the team hotel, giddy as a schoolgirl with a new dress.
That’s a heck of a lot of perception to overcome.
To all of this, Minaya stuck to his guns. He said that, back in October 2005, it was Bernazard who recommended Randolph as Minaya’s first big hire. “Tony has always been available and supportive to both the coaching staff and Willie,” Minaya said.
I’ve heard from too many reliable sources that Bernazard has been an anti-Willie force for quite some time now. At the very least, dating to the end of last year.
ESPN’s Buster Olney reported on Tuesday that a Mets’ front-office member would tell players about negative evaluations from Randolph and his coaches. Bernazard is the natural suspect. The story is quite feasible.
so he is downright a skunkbag, with nothing to do but backstab others
I am so done with this. It’s over. If we win then he and Omar will stay. If we lose they will go and I am fine with that.
Big supporter of Willie (although my opinion was he had to Memorial Day to get this fired in the right direction and he failed) it is possible that Bernazard did not like what he was seeing and hearing at the end of last year, like many fans.
what is with some saying AAA isnt AAA anymore. Thats simply not true. There are a ton of great MLB prospects in AAA. Rasmus, McCutchen are two TOP prospects there right now. Longoria started the season there, Bruce went there before the big leagues. New STUD pitchers Lincecum, Felix Hernandez, Hamels, Matt Cain, etc all spent time in AAA. I beleive its still much more common to have a pitcher or hitter spend time in AAA before he makes the jump to the big leagues from A or AA.
This is even more important for FMART to do since he 19 and still V ERY raw. FMART still needs to work on his plate disipline (which has been mentioned over and over…everyone has echoed) and AAA pitchers are much more advanced than AA pitchers in expanding the zone and making hitters swing it their pitch.
Im for players dominating at a level before bringing them up. It sure worked for David Wright as lets not forget he had over 100 VERY PRODUCTIVE AAA at bats before he got the call up in 2004…not that long ago
As pointed out in a previous post, look at the AAA stats and see who leads the league in BA, OBP, SLG and OPS. They are all journeymen.
I prefer Columbia two sugars and a cream, but the point on AAA you make regarding the very short stint of time all of those guys stayed at AAA is exactly to the point of AAA being defunct, it was a measure progression step by each of the teams.
It sounds like most of you are pushing for a trade and willing to sacrifice our last remaining prospects. I hope not. I’m so sick and tired of watching aging Veterans at the end of their careers.
Omar has one he!! of a decision. This team has the starting pitching to compete for a World Series but are short of one big bat. Its a tough call. Not much out there either. Is a nine game winning streak enough to convince you this team has what it takes in the clutch? Not for me. Don’t get me wrong I’m as happy as a clam but this team still has much to prove.
First off, no one is suggesting dealing the last remaining prospects for some 38 year old dinosaur of the steroid era.
If you can get a real guy like Holliday or Bay you have to do it.
Even if their plane explodes upon take off, or they fall down the stairs and no longer can walk, trading for guys WHO ARE stars with time left is a must.
And in so far as the last remaing prospects, the returns are early but this far the draftees of the Mets are showing nicely as well as last years international signings.
It is not inconceivable that at this time next year the Mets are looking at Flores and Marte with all the little minor league blogs and websites raving about them and suddlenly the system is deep with guys liket that and Davis, Havens and Holt mixed in.
If you can manage to get a 2 for 1 done you do it. If not a huge package is getting into risky territory and anyone over age 30 in my opinion is not worth it.
As for the Mets aging terrible veterans. A lot of teams would love the aging problem of Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, Beltran, Wright and Reyes heading into next year.
carlos lee, reyes, hanley ramirez, and most recently justin upton have come up as VERY, VERY young players….
most call-ups dont stop at AAA…AA is where the talent is, and the most competition.
Fringe guys like Carp, evans, and murphy NEED to be in AAA to work against savy vets and learn their positions better.
Honestly…when church or pagan come back…promote FMart to start in LF. we are not talking for the rest of the season, but for a reasonible period, or until he really falters.
reyes
pagan/church[whoever is healthy]
wright
beltran
delgado
easley
schneid
Fmart
bench: castro, tatis, anderson, chavez, and castillo/a. reyes
he doesnt have to be MLB ready…he has to play good defense, add some speed, and keep this team and the fans excited. we dont expect success…but what if he hits like others before him, or even like LMilz at the end of last year. my guess is .260, a few hrs + sb’s, a fair amount of k’s adn XBH…
true, he is not as good as chavez would, but…it adds a different dimension to the lineup. you have to respect his hitting prowess, and against really tough matchups, you use your bench.
however, i wouldnt play him without church or pagan in the lineup bc then his bat is that much more exposed, and you would be relying on him.
i think the main concept in his promotion is to restore the bench and add a 5 tool player with HUGE upside, and saving your role players for the big spots.
if it really comes down to a trade…the real trade to look at is for Garrett Atkins…maybe parnell, heilman, and carp/murphy/evans would do it.
logic…add a 100/30/100/.300 guy that can play 1/2/3B…options to replace delgado, or move to move wright if needed, or to just bury castillo somewhere.
we MUST NOT do any rental trades that cost any of our top 10 prospects or ANY TRADE involve niese or Fmart…
There is no way that you bring in Fmart to START in LF in the middle of a pennant race when he is not even hitting yet in AA. Besides that means that you lock yourself to him or will damage his trade value tremendously. Wait until September when the AA season is over with and see how he does. With Fmart we need to know about potential for next year or 2010. There is NO WAY he is ready this season. He would hit about .200 and would be exposed.
You can not start him over Pagan and Endy.
And you want Pagan and Endy to be starting corner OFs during a pennant race? Now, I am in no way advocating for F-Mart here. He is NOT ready. But let’s not act like he would be taking over for Hank Aaron and Roberto Clemente,
Just get a corner OF Omar.
Martinez most underwhelming part of his game is his bat.
that should SAY not his bat, the point being, if the Mets just need defense Chavez will be fine.
He’s not going to excite anyone when he hits .092 and strikes out every other at bat.
How about this one for off the wall.
Castillo (and lots of cash), Niese, Heilman and 2 AA prospects for Roberts, Bradford and Huff.
O’s get tons of salary relief. 3 guys that can play on the MLB roster for them next season for cheap and 2 guys with potential.
Mets get a consistant 2B and an OF/1B that is signed this season and next and a reliable reliever.
In that deal, you’d probably have to trade Smith because he and Bradford would be pretty redundant in the pen. I think the pen is OK as is, maybe see if you can throw Mora into the mix. He’d be a righthanded bat with some versatility, a solid bench player.
Ted, I think you think JP Riccardi’s comments about Dunn are taken too far. Dunn’s value hasn’t decreased because of Riccardi’s comments. The only person who has suffered from them is Riccardi. That type of behavior and a really underachieving team is what will likely do him in after this season.
On his weekly spot on Joe and Evan around the time all this Bernazard stuff was hitting the fan, Brian Schneider was asked about Bernarzard, to which he replied,
“He’s in the clubhouse a lot.”
Perhaps Schnieder was lieing, but he used the word NOT in his sentence.
perhaps I need spell check
100% spot on, Ted.
Well put.
The Mets really have nothing to offer in the trade market. We need to dance with who we brought. Fernando Martinez is not ready for prime time. We just don’t have the horses in the minors to pry a big time bat and we can’t afford to trade players on our major league roster.
of course my post from yesterday regarding Ted’s motives got pulled….I dont want FMart up yet either, seen him, he wont be ready for a while….heck Gomez still isnt ready…
but cmon Ted, you dont want him up cause you want your boy Pascucci….!!!! ha ha
I’d like to know what everyone think about what NASA can do to improve shuttle safety upon reentry into the earth’s atmosphere. I’m sure you all have it figured out too.
The bottomline is I’d trust Bernazard’s judgment on this matter rather that all of yours. For one, the man probably have seen more FMart games than all of you, COMBINED. Most of you are probably getting your info from the same source who might have seen FMart in action for a week. On the otherhand, Bernazard probably gets daily updates and progress reports. I don’t know, I think I’ll take his judgement over that of most of you just like I take stock recommendation from a certified financial analyst over that of a bum on the street.
Except the bum on the street was the certified financial analyst not too long ago. And he is now the bum because he didn’t make good decisions. Actually I think the Mets need another pitcher because I think Pedro is done or at least so erratic that we can’t count on him.
Nope. Schneider said exactly that.
He also followed that up by saying he tries to steer clear of these situations.
Gomez can’t hold a candle to F-Mart’s talent. I’m planning on going to to the game tommorow night.