|
|
|
In his most recent report for FoxSports.com, Ken Rosenthal writes that suitors for OF Xavier Nady, such as the Yankees, Rays and Phillies, “continue to balk at the Pirates asking price.”
Earlier this week in the Pittsburgh Post-
Gazette, Dejan Kovacevic listed the Braves and Mets as having interest in Nady as well.
Last week, Kovacevic wrote that the Mets and Braves went so far as to recently conduct a conference call with the Pirates to discuss Nady.
…the problem, as i see it, is that the Pirates are rumored to be seeking your team’s two best prospects…also, for what it’s worth, there are few players for whom the Mets will trade Fernando Martinez, and nady is not one of them…
…and so, from what i can gather, for the Mets to have a shot at snagging nady - without giving up martinez - the Phillies, Rays and Braves need to turn their attention elsewhere, or at least get bogged down in talks for other players involving the prospects who Pittsburgh is seeking…this could happen if the Rockies start honestly shopping Matt Holliday…
…if this happens, my sense is that if the Mets give up at least their two best pitching prospects, in the eye’s of the Pirates, and the Phillies and Braves back off, nady could end up back in Queens…but that’s a lot of if’s…
By the way, Rosenthal also reports on rumors involving the Yankees, Bronson Arroyo and Jarrod Washburn, as well as Oakland’s interest in Bay.
Please no . . . . go the Winn route.
BLAKE IS GARBAGE!!!
Ibanez is the only acceptable alternative to a star type of player.
K ~
If you think Blake is garbage than your standards are too high. And please don’t start saying that Bonds is the only acceptable guy because it ain’t hapennin.
how about we shop for a 3rd base coach!!
No shopping needed. Just have Aguayo trade places with Oberkfell. Instant upgrade at 3B and Aguayo can’t really do any damage at 1B.
No thanks. I like Nady, but I wouldn’t want to give up much more than Carp for him. We can get what we need with Casey Blake or Randy Winn for not too much.
Blake will put up comparable numbers and cost much less.
The best part will be when Nady regresses in the second half and a team will have paid an enormous premium for his services.
yeah, unless its us
Ha, yes, then it would kind of suck.
Go out and get Winn cheap and p/u a decent reliever, Lord knows we need one after last night!
Yeah, the pen was horrid last night, but let’s not make it like our pen has been that bad all season. It’s actually been a strength, at least since late May.
The way I see it, we could use another arm. Feliciano is borderline useless for our team now. Everytime he goes out there he lets up runs. Muniz can only be used in mop-up roles. That’s 2 of the 7 or 8 or whatever it is spots in the ‘pen that can’t be used in a tight game.
It’s time to go out and land Fuentes already and have him in the 8th with Dirty in the 7th inning.
If we land Fuentes we’re going to have to use up most of the pieces that we might be able to use to get a corner of.
Randy Winn. Giants are looking for a salary dump, would not cost much.
How is Winn a significant upgarde over Chavez or Tatis? Lst time I checked we were looking for a corner outfielder with a bat to replace production lost with Alou and potentially Church. Winn is not that.
Chavez and Tatis are not everyday players, there will be a loss of production at some time. Winn has been a consitent OF producer for some time now. He is a definate upgrade for this season. I believe we need more help through trade for a pitcher with the chips we have avaiable. Winn would basically cost us nothing.
Just looking at their offensive numbers Tatis is hitting a much higher percentage of line drives and a lower percentage of fly balls. Maybe it’s skewed because of the sample size but I have a hard time seeing Tatis falling off enough for Winn to be more productive offensively. Although Winn does walk a lot more.
1) I don’t think Holt can be traded as he was just drafted.
2) Why would the Pirates want OUR pitching “prospects?”
The Pirates would want pitching because that is their biggest need. They would want pitching from anyone.
He could be traded as a player to be named later I think.
I love Nady, but not for what Pittsburgh is asking. Casey Blake, on the other hand, would be a perfect fit. He would cost less, but probably not as little as people here seem to think. As I’ve said before, the only guys I wouldn’t trade right now are F-mart and Niese.
Again, what is this love fest with Niese? The kid is no better than a #4 pitcher providing he even reaches his full potential.
He’s the only young pitcher with rotation potential at High-A or above.
We trade him and we have no young starting pitching depth.
Exactly. So the major reason he’s so “good” is because everyone else in the system is so bad. I somehow don’t think this translates into “untouchable.”
Niese is untouchable because we need someone for the back end of our rotation next year. Free agent pitchers are expensive, so why pay out the nose when you have an in house solution that is way cheaper?
Again we have only three spot locked in next year, Johan, Maine, and Pelfrey. We need to fill two and possibley a third spot, some one who can spot start in case of injury.
We don’t need Niese to be a front line guy, he provides plenty of value in the back end, where funny enough, thats exactly where he projects.
Yes his fastball sits in the low 90’s, but pitchers volicty increases with age until they reach their high 20’s. So you can expect him to increase 2 more mhp, and he has a plus curve ball. I can see this guy giving us a few Joe Blanton year, which isn’t bad at all.
So you’re basically saying you’re not going to trade a guy that COULD at best turn into a Bronson Arroyo or Joe Blanton if everything works out in his favor?
I think he’s saying he’d rather have a young cheap version of Bronson Arroyo or Blanton in the back of our rotation than going out and actually spending 10-12 million per on a pitcher of the same quality that’ll probably be in his 30s.
Personally I understand both your sides, and I don’t really know which would be a better option. I guess it would depend who we got in a trade for Niese/Parnells. If it was a relatively young, like 28-31 outfielder who we could lock up for a few years then it might be worth it.
At this point, if it takes Niese to broker a deal for Nady without having to give up FMart, I’d pull the trigger right then and there. The improvement in the OF would greatly outweigh any risk of Niese turning out to be a Joe Blanton.
exactly Gina! You can use that extra $10-$12M for another position of need or faciltate the signing of another front end guy.
That could mean an Orlando Hudson, or an OF bat.
And another thing to consider is that this is New York and price of players is probably on the low end of the priority meter. We have the luxury of spending more that the other guys if it means improving the club as a whole. As long as it’s prudent, I have no problem with the team paying for decent talent.
Niese has been improving, and he’s actually projected to get better, though with the stuff he’s got, I guess not markedly better. If he comes in as a 3 or 4, we’re set. There’s no sense in trading a middle rotation guy if he’s gonna be a whole lot cheaper and perhaps even better than the stuff on the FA heap every year.
I have no problem paying for talent as long as it’s spent intelligently. ie, IMO giving Tex that huge 10 year contract he wants would not be spending intelligently because we all know they’re not going to eat the back-end of it when he starts to fall off.
The end of the rotation guys we’d be looking at signing are going to want semi-long term deals, if the front office isn’t going to be willing to eat those contract when the players start to really fall off then I’d rather just stick with someone like Niese. It’s one thing to spend money on a guy like Beltran, it’s another to spend it on guys that are mediocre and/or injury prone and in their 30s.
You’re also ASSUMING Niese is a #4 instead of a maybe like all prospects. The certainty that Niese will be the guy you think he’ll be is speculative at best since he’s still at least 2 years away if he stays on his current progression. You need to discount your current value of Niese for that factor.
just get casey blake, he hits .285 with 20 hr, and 85-90 rbi consistently.
I would think that its gotta be a guy like Niese, and maybe Parnell, or someone along the lines…
What about Jose Guillen? He is a bit of a headcase, I understand, but he could probably be had for something significantly less, since it would be a salary dump.
Guillen should cost nothing. He has 2 years and $24 million left on his contract and his OBP is sub-300
He would probably prove an upgrade in the short term, but that contract is as horrible as his attitude.
Although I remember Guillen as a National (I live in DC), and he loved and respected Frank Robinson and behaved quite well.
It would be important for Manuel to reach him.
Also important is the fact that KC has no desire to trade him.
I’ve heard that they are looking to move him, due to the contract.
What would the Mets need to give up to get Blake? Personally, I feel they should include Feliciano in the deal. I might be mistaken, but I believe he’s a free agent at the end of the year. Schoenweiss has pitched effectively, and I don’t think losing Feliciano would hurt that much. I think Feliciano and two decent pitching prospects would get it done.
So if you give up Niese and Parnell, then what happens to the rotation next year.You have two spots and I see Niese brought up to AAA later this second half, and getting a crack at the rotation next year in Spring Training or mid way through next year for the back end. So essentially you will need three starting pitchers next year, two for the rotation and one to spot start from AAA in case of injury.
I’m not sure either of them should be expected to be in the rotation anytime before late next year, they both need to develop their pitching repertoire, or at least Niese does I may be confusing Parnell with Kunz.
I’d rather have Jose Lima in the rotation if it comes down to Niese AND Parnell. (Okay, maybe not but you get the point)
This is the Mets, not the Expos. If they aren’t willing to find anyone better for the rotation than Niese and Parnell during the first year of Citifield, there’ll be a mob with pitchforks and torches outside Citifield.
The problem is there’s not a lot of options, the free agent market is pretty empty. Our best options will probably be to resign Ollie and sign someone like John Garland.
I agree Gina. Ollie is going to cost waay more than he is worth, and Garland is a wild card. I would like to see them let Ollie walk, get a draft pick out of it, then sign Sheets for a three year $15M per yr deal with a club option for a forth, maybe a Jason Schmidt deal. Having Freddy Garcia or John Garland pick up the rear. Niese sits in AAA for injury spot starts.
By the way, Niese pitched deep into spring training with the big club and played well, so I am not sure he is as far away as you may think. The Mets have gone station to station with him in his development, so he has had plenty of time to polish things off.
I will refine what I just said about Garland and say that he is a consistent 4.00 ERA guy. Do you want to spend a lot on that? I think they might have to.
The problem with a guy like Sheets is do we really want to add another 30+ pitcher who’s injury prone. Plus wouldn’t that cancel out the compensation we’d get for Ollie? I can’t imagine Sheets would be less than a type A free agent. Probably same with Garland.
Personally I’d rather just re-sign Ollie, he’s young with no history of injuries, as far as I know. He’s probably not going to cost more than Garland or Sheets would.
Good food for thought Gina. I thought that O.P.s pick would come from the team that signs him, and with signing Ben Sheets, the Brew Crew would take our own first round draft pick, but we get to keep the one from O.P.s team.
You have a point about Sheets injury history, but he is more consistent than O.P. My problem with Ollie is that he may just fall apart mentally. I guess they both carry big risks, but with Sheets you can take on less years.
I personally think you take a lot of things for granted: Niese will be a decent back-end guy and Ollie will net us a #1 pick. Consider for a second the chances of even a Baseball America top-100 prospect actually making it and then consider the chances of a second/third tier prospect like Niese. Now ponder the chance of Perez not be a type A since they take more than 1 year’s stats to determine that. And then throw in the possibility that Perez signs with a team whose pick is protected because they had a bad season. And then the possibility that Sheets signs and is a type A. You could potentially be looking at Niese not making it, Mets have zero #1 pick, and Sheets pitching even less games than El Duque.
I know I’m looking at the glass as half-empty but I don’t think you should discount that possibility. You have to recognize what the probabilities are in all these scenerios before saying “Niese is untouchable because he’s the closest to the majors.”
Free agent status is based on the stats of two previous seasons, so unless Ollie completely implodes down the stretch, which with him is obviously a possibility, he’ll be a type A.
Although I hadn’t considered him being signed by a team with a protected pick.
And it also depends on who else is in your FA class. Ollie would need to be in the top 20% of all free agent SPs to be a type A.
At this point, I don’t know how certain I am with him being a type A since he is an implosion waiting to happen. Moreover, it’d also depends on whether guys like Sabathia resigns or now. The more the competition, the less I like Ollie’s chances of being a type A.
Why do people think Niese is going to all of a sudden be ML ready at some point next season? That is ridiculous. Either you get someone like Nady and patch the pitching in the offseason, or you stand pat and still have to find a 1B and patch the pitching in the offseason. Niese is hardly untouchable.
Who are these players for whom the Mets would trade Martinez?
Holliday is probably one.
He’s overrated.
Agreed.
That may be, but he’s still the best OF available in this trade market.
Winn is a great idea but I do not think the Giants are making him available.
Parnell is really something, i would love to see him as a starter next year, anyway, why feliciano, he pitched well up to yesterday. metaphan, the players would be matt holliday, and thats mostly it, and he is enough, because the indians asked for him in the cc sabathia deal, so you know he is good.
how is Randy Winn and his sub .750 OPS better than anything we are trotting out there now?
Enough.
If you get an outfielder. Get one for NOW and next year at least.
Go all in for Holiday or Bay now.
Thats in one of the tougher hitter parks out there. He plays good defense and gets on base. I thinke he would be a great #2 hitter in this lineup.
Sounds like Endy Chavez.
At this point Tatis’s OPS is higher, and while it could just be a fluke because of the small sample size Tatis has a higher percentage of line drives and a lower percentage of fly balls so it’s not a given that Winn will be a more reliable offensively down the stretch.
give me a break, as if he has been the road warrior while with the giants.
Casey Blake is the best option right now. people say he wont be a different maker, but he is on pace for 20 HR and 85 RBI, those are decents numbers. to get a different maker superstar we have to give up the whole farm, and we dont want to continue to hurt our our future.get him along with Rafael Betancourt who is not having a good year but is a proven setup guy
both of this players should come cheap
blake+betancourt for carp and two level prospects?
what u guys think?
Why would Shapiro take that deal? He can get something better for those 2.
Yeah, especially when you throw Betancourt in the deal.
i honestly dont know, depends on the level prospects, i think that the mets farm system would be ranked way better next year cuz they have prospects, just not in Triple A.
I swear I hear this every year.
Its like Groundhog Day really. “Next year the farm system will be great…..Next year we go to the World Series…..Next year Santana will pitch a no-hitter for us…..”
Ughh…..
Also most teams don’t have their best prospects in triple A. The problem is our prospect in AA, and A ball aren’t looked at very highly by most scouts either.
Matt, I guess that you are guessing what Omar might do and not what you would do here. I’ll just state that Nady is not worth what is perceived by the Pirates to be our two best pitching prospects – hmm, what would that be – Niese, for sure and maybe Kunz or one of the other starters. Crazy talk. Frankly, I am much much much more concerned with the state of the bullpen. I would trade Church and Heilman for Street.
church?..then who plays rightfield next year?
ummm Church is not getting moved until he proves he can stay in the game
WO WO WO did you just church, no no no no no no no
I rather give up a lot for Huston Street than two prospects for Nady.
He is just as bad as the guys in our current bullpen. Are you kidding?
haahahhahah church and heilman for street WHAT
The only way you move Church is if you can get some reverse Billy Beane fleecing returns for him. Back in Dec. when we traded for Church it was speculated that Beane worshiped Church (I hold for laughs on that pun) for reasons I no longer remember. So unless we can get: Street, an ML outfielder, and a prospect we aren’t trading Church. I’m not saying the odds of those returns are anything better than a million to one but you never know how bad a GM wants a guy. Plus with Church’s health its unlikely you would get anything for him.
I think what Dejan Kovacevic is saying is that, come August 1st, Xavier Nady will still be a Pirate.
I’m really not sure where I stand with this…I don’t want to give up too much but I’m incredibly nostalgic for Nady, I think he’d provide a great spark.
agreed. and he is insurance at 1B for if/when Delgado breaks down.
With the asking price for most of these players I bet we don’t make any moves and I can’t say I will blame Omar for that.
*grabbing something* Here are my two best prospects b**ch!
(sorry for the crudeness, just if this is Pittsburgh’s wants, they can take it and . . . )
I’m sorry to be debbie downer, but why can’t we be sellers for once? or at least not “buyers”. it’s painfully obvious that this team has flaws that no quick fix is going to solve for a run at the WS. I would try to see if Delgado’s recent resurgence has perked up any GM’s ears and try to restock the farm a little bit. Same goes for Ollie. I’d rather miss the playoffs this year but get back some young prospects for a run at long term prosperity than to make the playoffs this year only to get swept in the first round.
Because we’re a big market team going into a new stadium and raising ticket prices That’s only a game out of first.. I would understand if they decided to sell, depending on who it was and what it was for, but I doubt the vast majority of the fan base would.
Well yes the teamed is flawed, but every team in the NL is flawed so if the Mets do happen to get to the playoffs anything can happen, as evidence by WS winners like the Marlins and Cardinals (an even more flawed team at the time).
The Wilpons want a winning team going into the new stadium. Selling doesn’t achieve that this year.
We are only a game out (for now).
While it would be nice to restock the farm, it’s just not the time to do it.
Dont understand the knocking of Winn. Guys a real
solid everyday OFer.Something we have only one of right now for 3 spots.If you can get him on the cheap,
why not? Besides, while I like Nady he has been completely overrated by both fellow fans and now the
Pirates. Like Ibanez too but this is 2 years now we’ve
need a righty everyday OFer. Winn can hit in the 2,6 0r7
spot and although not great power has no other weaknesses to his game. Another related point, hope
omar will be real careful w/ Parnell. I’ve seen in 4x over
the last 2 seasons and the kid looks like hes gonna
be a mid-rotation starter once hes ready.
My issue with Winn as I don’t see him as much more than an defensive upgrade and a slight offensive downgrade. IMO if we’re going for a corner of it should be one who’s either a clear-cut upgrade or a clear-cut offensive upgrade.
Hi, I rarely post anything but I am a very regular reader. Food for thought, or at least my thoughts as it were. I liked Nady, the obvious reason of an everyday LF and right handed bat, but almost more importantly, I believe he is under contract for next year and now plays into the equation for next year at several positions. If F. Martinez is ready Nady can move to first as likey Degado will be bought out of his option. If Carp or Evans is ready before Martinez Nady could stay in the outfield. I agree the price is too high, so perhaps Blake could be had for a better price and fill that role, we will have to see how the market fairs, but I cannot see trying to lock up an outfielder when we have Martinez on the verge, or even Evans or Carp for that matter, depending on who would be left after such a move. I truely think it is time for this team to get out of the habit of leaning on the over priced free agent market and start looking within our their own system. To note I made no metion of a Texeria signing simply because he is a Boras client. The contract will be too big and too long, and the most important factor is Hank will not be outbid by the Mets after passing on Johan last year. Just my thoughts.
we would be stupid not to try to get nady and a RP from Pitts…
we need him for both this year and next. adding a RP would be great too.
everyone says we dont have enough to trade….they are TOTALLY WRONG!!!!
Pitts needs pitching and some complimentary guys, as well as retool their farm. From all i have read from scouts and have seen…
MLB ready SP-heilman[yes, and teams want him to start], niese
inj considerations-burgos, vargas, and bostick
Project, high ceiling talent-parnell, moviel
RP-muniz, kunz, smith
hitters-evans, carp, and murphy
wildcard- a. reyes
in fairness to both sides, i can see this working like…
1-2 low level prospects
+ near ready SP-heilman/niese
+ hard throwing prospect-parnell/moviel
+ close to ML talent-evans/a.reyes
[evans over carp bc RH to platoon with laroche, a.reyes over murphy bc he is ready now and WAS a bigtime prospect, and at 25-still has a chance and looks good now. they do need a 1b option to help laroche and a 2b to move sanchez back to 3b or ss]
everyone’s fear is that we have no SP next year…
as long as we keep 1 of niese or heilman, we will have 4 on the books. i would keep c. vargas as a potential 5…while looking at the FA market. we also have j vargas and bostick around to compete and back up.
i like it, it looks fair…lets get to it.
nady is the best available fit….why???? he is a very solid player that did well in NY, he plays 1b and OF, and we keep him next year,
reyes, church, wright, beltran, nady, carp/evans/fmart, schneid/castro, and castillo/2b
santana, maine, pelfrey, niese/heilman, + FA/c vargas/bostick
looks great to me!!!