According to the Denver Post, the Rockies have asked the Mets for LHP Jon Niese in a deal for LHP Brian Fuentes.
Similarly, the Rockies have asked the Red Sox for RHP Clay Buchholz, and the Yankees for RHP Ian Kennedy.
…to me, the news here is that the Rockies put niese on the same level as buccholz and kennedy, which is good to hear…
…by the way, from what i can gather, these are not hard-and-fast offers, but are a general sense from the Rockies to each time on what fuentes could cost, assuming each team is interested…
…i still believe fuentes will end up on the Rays or Yankees, though the Marlins have reportedly expressed serious interest as well…
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I think I’d do that move in heartbeat, though we have a lot of lefties in our pen
Am I the only one that thinks Buchholz is over rated? I see him pitch all the time since I live in Mass and I don’t see what everyone else sees.
Bucholz hasn’t even had a full season in majors. Pelfrey is finally showing his good stuff now. You can’t make that sort of judgement just yet.
Just to note, Buchholz was taken with the draft pick we lost for signing Pedro.
Niese isn’t going to be used in the Pen. He’s been converted to a starter, and we kinda need him.
Niese is really our only in-house option for next year’s rotation, so he should be kept if at all possible. On the other hand, if Wagner’s aches and pains are worse than we think, Omar may have no choice.
Agree. Perez may very well be gone next year, and so might Pedro. If that’s the case, there will be 2 rotation spots empty, so Niese could fill one and Omar could get the other via free agency.
Maybe I’m down on Niese or maybe I’m overrating Buchholz but I have a hard time understanding how the rockies could put them on the same level.
I agree, Gina, and I AM high on Niese. Perhaps Colorado factors in lefty/righty?
That’s the only thing I can think that might make his value a little higher, but aren’t lefties usually harder to project.
Niese has a 1.58 GO/AO ratio, and has given up 5 dongs in 117 IP. Colorado may be more intrigued by him sensing he’s a ground ball pitcher in Coors.
Maybe the Rockies realize that asking for Bucholz is kinda nuts and Neise is more realistic.
I don’t like it – I’m sick of trading every prospect we have. I think Fuentes is overrated and redundant. Wagner is in place, Scho has been strong, and Feliciano is not totally unreliable.
I agree, though getting Huston Street would be nice. I really don’t want to trade Niese, though.
Huston Street woudl be tempting, although I would rather keep Niese.
Street seems to be injury prone.
They’re putting Niese on the same level because that’s all we’ve got! Sad isn’t it? This is exactly why we can’t trade him. The Rocky’s need bidders and offers in order to make a trade.
No way do I do this move!!! Fuentes is not going to do anything that Scho can’t do. You don’t give up a potential 3 or 4 starter for a soft tossing 2 month rental bullpen guy.
Starting pitching is @ a premium, especially for a team w/ only 3 starters locked up for next year and NOBODY @ AAA ready to step in. If they’ll take lesser A ball players, and more of them, fine. But we HAVE to keep Niese & Martinez.
Like Omar said a week ago, we CAN’T keep doing 4 for 1 deals. Look @ our OF now. We need depth, and it’s a hell of a lot better to bring up a youngster in AAA to fill a hole than some retread. Don’t mortgage the future. With a core of Reyes, Wright, Beltran, and (hopefully) Church, w/ Johan, Maine, and Pelfrey, we’ll contend for a bit. Supplement that w/ good young talent and we’ll be good for a while…
I could not agree more.
Let’s not get carried away, Niese is the Mets only pitching prospect that garners any attention. I’d rather see them promote or get a feel for this Eddie Kunz kid than trade a blue chip for a maybe guy.
No way I make that trade, Fuentes isn’t really all that great anyway.
And I don’t want to see Niese on the same level with Kennedy. He’s terrible, and I don’t see why he’s regarded as something special. He doesn’t throw hard, his stuff is pedestrian, and from what I’ve seen of him, he doesn’t seem all that bright as far as pitching goes.
Buchholz, on the other hand, looks like he could be something special one day.
But I’m not a baseball scout (surprise, surprise!), so what the heck do I know?
I guess I do know that I want Niese to be the man… my ex-girlfriend in Binghamton has watched him pitch and says he has nasty stuff, so I guess we’ll see.
He has a nice 12-6 curve, kind of like Barry Zito. Although Zito’s curve lost a lot of the sharp break it used to have.
You’re comparing Niese’s curveball to that of Zito’s? What’s next, his change to that of Johan’s?
This seems like a no-brainer move for the Yankees. Kennedy has shown nothing, they desperately need relief help..
I certainly wouldn’t hesitate if it was Niese for Huston Street.
Eh. If I was sure Street could hold down the closing role I’d probably do it in a heartbeat but I’m not sure how confident I am.
Of course compared to the options we have now he’d probably be the safest choice in the 9th.
Niese might be needed to fill a rotation spot next year. Pedro and Ollie could both very well be gone.
Even if they are gone I wouldn’t expect Niese to be up next year, from what I understand he still needs work on his secondary pitches.
I would think if he had a lights out spring, he would get a chance. Pelfrey never had his secondary pitches working (and still doesn’t), but was thrown into the fire.
Pelfrey has two plus fastball pitches that hang around 92-95 and get up to 97. Niese has a fastball pitch hangs around the high 80s and can get up to around 90-91, as well as a great curve. Pelfrey’s 2 primary pitches are just a lot better.
uhhh…street’s era is OVER 4…and he throws like 89mph…heilman’s better than he is..
I heard from Olney yesterday that the Mets have had productive talks with the Indians regarding Casey Blake. Looks like Blake is Omar’s target
Good. That will be a great move and I think will really help the team. Blake is supposedly a great guy and will probably fit right in in the clubhouse.
His bat won’t hurt either.
What do you guys think it will take to get blake?
They’re going to want pitching… I don’t want to give Niese, and I’m not sure how deep our pitching prospects are. I can’t imagine it will cost too much, but it really depends on what they think of our prospects and what the other offers consist of.
That’s an interesting question. Cleveland is probably looking to rebuild since they are pretty much out of the mix. So they would most likely be looking for a prospect. I think it’ll likely be 3rd tier prospect and maybe cash/draft pick.
Plus, the Mets are taking pro-rated 6.5MM of Blake’s contract.
Neise is not even close to clay buckholtz in terms of talent. Buckholz is a top 10 prospect in the majors. Neise is a nice prospect, and I would rather get a left fielder, for him. Ibanez is a good fit. He isn’t good enough o get bay or nady
Scouts are often wrong. Buchholz has been getting wrapped this year in the bigs, and frankly teams often see more upside in a guy like Niese who is progressing and keeps the ball out of the air.
Ibanez for him is total disgusting waste of young talent for another aged has been.
I’d give them Val Passuci or Argenis Reyes or some other light wait for Ibanez, not a prospect.
The Mariners BLOW, they are not only not winning this year they are not winning for five years. Ibanez is a free agent following this season so no way am I willing to see the Mets trade a 21 year old developing pitcher who throws from the left side of the diamond for a 36 year old free agent to be. You trade 24 year old single A catchers for those guys, like how the Mets got Castillo.
Baseball america has buck ranked 4,
Espn has him ranked 5
Scouting book has him ranked 3.
Neise could be a good pither, but buckholtz will be an ace.
I would rather trade neise for a nice left fielder
I don’t know if it came across, but I really do not give a crap what or where anyone ranks these guys.
I would not be so bold to say Buchholz will be an ace based on what scouts say.
Many many scouts once said that Scott Kazmir should be converted a closer before he was even drafted comparing he and his stature to Billy Wagner.
Johan Santana was once a RULE V draft pick.
Niese might never even be a number four starter, but I sure as hell am not going to find out by dealing him for a 36 year old free agent to be.
a guy who’s already thrown a no-hitter in the bigs is going to have a lot more upside and attention thrown his way than a kid who’s still in double a. the hype on buchholz is there. neise is promising but let’s not disparage other prospects in order to make neise more than what he currently is.
Between Niese and Bucholz, who do you think has the stuff to pitch a no-no? Oh wait, nevermind, moot point.
No way Jose!
Niese has some nice potential, and frankly, while I’d like to have Fuentes out there, he isn’t worth a guy who could be a middle to back of the rotation starter.
I agree with those, however, who would trade him for Street. Does Oakland have any OFers we could get as part of a bigger deal?
And the A’s once suggested Jason Isringhausen for Billy Taylor.
And I’m not sure the Rockies are equating Jon Niese to Kennedy or Bucholz, but rather grasping at straws hoping that someone is foolish enough to surrender a talented young starter for a 2 month pen rental.
But I really do like Jon Niese, and given the many holes the Mets will have to fill in the rotation next year, there’s no way you trade this guy for a reliever. For a quality major league outfielder that can hit in the middle of the order, yes. For Fuentes, no.
I dont understand the need for bullpen help. Other than Tuesdays disaster, our bullpen has been stellar as of late. If we are going to be trading our prospects for anything, i think it needs to be a corner OF. The past week Tatis has been coming down to earth and Anderson is a mess in the outfield. Eventually playing these guys in the OF every day will catch up to us.
At least Tatis is a right handed bat who has some pop. Marlon Anderson has been so awful (in the field and at the plate), he is entering Julio Franco levels of futility.
I recommend designating Aguayo for assignment and then asking Anderson to stand in the third base box.
Agreed. Filling our OF void is top and only priority this year.
Next year we’ll need to replace 1 or 2 SP’s and 1B (I’m hoping Castillo will rebound from his not so good start of the year).
In a fantasy world I’d trade for Holliday this year and sign Tex, Perez, and Garland. (I’m not into big man CC long term).
Realistically though, Omar has a tough job and it’ll be fun to see what he’ll be able to do.
Let’s Go Mets!
Here’s the thing, I think the Mets greatest need is an outfield bat, not a relief pitcher.
I’ve never been a huge Niese guy and really think he’s more of a #4 starter. That he’s the Mets top starting prospect has more to do with the lack of pitching depth in the Mets minors than Niese’ long-term projection, though he will be a major leaguer. Personally, I think Scott Moviel is the Mets best starting prospect.
That said, I would hold onto to Niese and use in a package for an outfield bat.
That said, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Mets land a reliever and an outfield bat, but just not something that excites us.
It could be Fuentes and maybe a deal for Ibanez (thought I’m not a fan of Ibanez). I can even see them dealing for Casey Blake and Paul Byrd and using Byrd as insurance in case Pedro goes down.
I agree about Moviel but isn’t he like 19? I also like Holt a lot but it’s kind of early to be projecting him. I think Niese is our best starting prospect that’s anywhere near making it into the rotation.
Holt could be really really good for us one day. I’m also high on Anonini, who I think just got promoted to high A. I was sort of anxious to see Bobby Parnell but he’s been mediocre at Bingo this year.
Unfortunately, all these guys are 2-3 years away. So yeah, Niese is our best prospect. He made Baseball America’s top 100 prospects in all of baseball.
I’d give up on Antonini if I were you. The kid has a 30-40 fastball (on a 20-80 scale) and no great secondary pitches.
neise sounds an awful lot like kevin mulvey except right-handed with a better curve. he’s a middle of the rotation guy at best and arguably has more value to the mets because of the quandary they could find themselves in in the offseason than a lot of other teams who have more in vaunted prospects to give up if the need arose.
This is random but talking about prospects made me think of this, has there been any news about international free agent signings for us?
It’s good to hear Niese being valued…but like others have said, an OF bat should be the priority right now.
I LOVE Nady and am nostalgic for him…but really, Casey Blake will cost a lot less and would be a better fit, so I say go with that. Who knows, maybe we could convice the Tribe to throw in a reliever in the deal. It could be a Mota-esque move (minus the signing him for 2 more years after he gets suspended)
I wouldn’t be surprised if Omar trade for Paul Byrd and Casey Blake and uses Byrd as a long-reliever/insurance in case Pedro goes down.
Mets may have to take on Byrd’s contract to get Blake. Not a bad idea as a Pedro back up
I’d put a sweaty sock on the same level as Ian Kennedy.
Can someone (perhaps who has seen him pitch a few times) explain why Niese is such a top prospect? I mean, I certainly hope he is, but in AA he is 5-7 with a 3.22 ERA and 1.32 WHIP. 43BB/104K. Those numbers are serviceable but seem pretty average. What am I missing?
Also, see Salvador Aguilar, who is 4 years older than Niese, but beats him in just about every other category.
He’s 26 and repeating AA. I can see why other teams scouts wouldn’t view him so highly.
well you pretty much just answered some of your question, Niese has been a level to level progression and will be 22 when they year ends and throws from the left side. Aguilar is going to be 27 after the season, is repeating double A and unlike Niese does not miss bats.
Finesse righties are not in high demand in the major leagues especially when their minor league career began at age 23. As for wins and losses who the hell cares about a minor leaguers won/loss record.
As far as I know he’s not considered a “top” prospect by scouts but he’s considered one of our top prospects because our system is seen as kind of sorry. But FWIW he’s only 21 and he’s younger than most pitchers in the Eastern League with comparable numbers.
Fair enough, I certainly hope for the best for him…and us.
Blake is very popular with the Tribe, and they’re clearly expecting to get real value back for him, not just a third-tier prospect. (At least, that’s what their blogs tell me).
Would we do the deal for Dan Murphy and Dylan Owen or Parnell?
Ya know, seems over the years that not only do the yankees over value their prospects but so do teams their
dealing with. Now,Although I’ve seen most of our AA talent
the last 3 years,I always miss Niese so I can’t say for sure
what he is/will be. But Buckholz I think its pretty clear is a
top of the rotation type SP While to me Kennedy seems like
no more than a 4th starter. Its like when they were discussing Santana back in January,They didnt want to give
up Melky & Kennedy. This guys not on the level of Hughes&
Chamberlin but it seems that Since The yankees group the 3 together well.then they are!—And no I wouldn’t give up
niese or Parnell whi I really like for Fuentes.
I’m pretty sure it’s that they didn’t want to give up Kennedy and Hughes in the same deal, not that they didn’t want to give up Melky and Kennedy.
keep niese, fuentes is 32 and is a 2nd tier reliever. we need a productive outfielder with some power
Becareful w/Parnell.Mes think hes a keeper.
XCasey Blake is a nice player BUT this is not a guy you give
up a top prospect for besides as I stated before,the guys
really an infielder.I’ve seen Murphy and he too looks like
a player BUT hes not a good fielder and ANY position.
Yes, the BP can always use an upgrade…but thats like trading a 1st rd pick for a kicker in football…its just plain stupid.
RP are a seasonal rotation of good/bad luck. fuentes is a good RP, but did just lose his closers job last year and made a no-name kid corpas a lot of money doing so. now he has it back….so what. is he that much better of a setup guy than smith, feliciano, or sanchez??? probably not.
however, where the big issue is, is on offense…we still have 3 fill-ins on our roster and it must be addressed immedietly!
If we are in win-now mode…we must concede and get nady from Pitts ASAP!!! however, while we are there, I will pony up som more to get a RP[marte or grabow].
With that, if im Omar…im trying to win this year and next year, so we must keep 1 of heilman or niese to step in the rotation next year, and 1 of carp/evans/murphy for possible roster spots. making kunz and Fmart untouchible. so Pitts, pick what you want and go…
i think if we sent heilman, parnell, evans[RH platoon w/laroche], and either a.reyes[need a capable 2b]/j.vargas/burgos/pellot or low-tier prospect…
we get nady and marte/grabow.
I would then take inquiries on Show and see how we could move castillo, maybe as a package…to see if we can get some prospects out of it, or maybe even a position player.
leaving us:
08-reyes, beltran, wright, delgado, nady, easley[2b], tatis[lf], schneid
Bench-anderson, castro, castillo[when healthy], chavez, + evans/murphy/carp
BP-short-muniz/feliciano/smith/show, 7/8-MATE/GRABOW + sanchez, cl-wags
09-depending on who is ready out of carp, murphy, evans, and Fmart…1 guy plays at either 1b or OF, and nady plays the other. plus we have either heilman or niese to be the 4/5 SP!
*Seriously…i would just outright put heilman, show, chavez, and castillo on the trade market…we have their replacements internally. we may be able to get the offense we need out of a trade with these guys
if we dont get nady…we dont trade niese at all. we try to get huff or blake for offense, and maybe a low-level RP. there is no need to trade for street or fuentes…they are “closers”, so the price tag doesnt meet their value to us…unless we are going to trade wags[which i cant see]
First off, Jon Niese is a starter… not a reliever. Secondly, for Brian Fuentes no thank you. Brian Fuentes s*cks!!!! For Casey Blake, I’d do Dan Murphy. If I am going to trade Niese, it will be as one of three players for Matt Holliday otherwise he is someone who we will find out soon whether the Mets will bring him up for one of the weekend’s starts.
Definitely.. we have to look at our needs. For Blake, I would give up any Double A position prospect not named FM. No starting pitching included… The only way you would trade Niese is for another starter in return.. Not rental RP. For Holliday, I would trade any position player including FM, but no starting pitchers.
Bottom line is.. the only way we trade starting pitching is if we get starting pitching in return..
Pass. Fuentes ain’t that good. He’s not going to push your team over the age to being a true contender.
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