The Mets have announced that Jon Niese will be promoted from Double-A to Triple-A, where he will start on Wednesday.
Niese, who has not allowed a run in his last seven innings, had been 6-7 with a 3.04 ERA in 22 starts with Double-A Binghamton.
Niese has been mentioned in a variety of trade rumors.
In fact, according to Jon Heyman at SI.com, the Mariners have been asking for Niese, whom the Mets consider to be ‘untouchable.’ Additionally, the Rockies had asked the Mets for Jon Niese in a deal for LHP Brian Fuentes, according to a recent report in the Denver Post.
…from what i can gather, the decision to promote niese came a few days ago, i.e., before John Maine’s potential shoulder injury…that said, it’s pretty good timing…
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I guess Niese is closer to the bigs than we all thought! If this injury to Maine persists, or Pedro gets hurt again I don’t think any of us should be shocked to see Niese brought up.
I kinda feel like this is also part of a ploy to build up his value, and then move him after the non-waiver trade deadline.
niese is the next koosman. that is, if omar is smart enough not to trade him!
yeah i agree Prismo…better get him on the fast track to the bigs incase Maine needs to miss more than one start…and with my boy Pedro, well, u just never know with him..
speaking of young pitching, it was only Single A ball, but Brad Holt dominated his last start…i think 14 Ks in 6 innnings of shut out ball…lets hope he can be another good underrated young pitcher in our system
By all reports, Holt has a + fastball but lacks even a semblence of a second pitch. He can develop one, no doubt, but let’s give him a few years.
His stat lines have been phenomenal all year though, so I am quite hopeful he progresses nicely.
well yeah, im not saying he’s gotta step right in next year. But im saying maybe by 2011 he can come in and be effective
Actually, his slider is still a little inconsistent, but the Mets have been shocked at how fast his changeup has developed. He wasn’t asked to throw it in college much at all, but the Mets tweaked his grip and apparently he’s taken to the pitch immediately.
Holt is definitely a guy to watch.
Also, it’s worth mentioning that his fastball (which has been called MLB ready) has a lot of movement on it, and Holt has good control of it, which somewhat mitigates the need for a refined secondary pitch at this stage in his development, as evidenced by his 51 Ks in 34.1 innings.
(Holy run-on sentence, Batman!)
Great news, great posts guys. I’m glad the change is developing. I know his fastball is considered MLB ready, and the fact that he’s dominating A hitters is great. He is high ceiling, obviously. I was just worried that the original poster thought we were looking at a sure thing that could help soon. Give Holt time!
The scouting report for Niese doesn’t read much differently, he has two pitches but neither of them are consider + pitches. And his velocity doesn’t usually get up past 91.
I remember he had a sharp 12-6 curve during spring training.
That’s one of his two pitches, but it’s not considered a plus pitch.
Wait, how is that not different?
Niese has two pitches, one of which is a fastball that sits around 90, neither of which are considered plus, but both of which are clearly adequate.
Holt has one established pitch, which is a plus fastball that sits in the mid-90s, with two more raw pitches in development.
The biggest thing they seem to have in common is an aptitude for getting people out. That and the fact that their birthdays are very close (Niese is 2 weeks younger than Holt).
I said it’s not much different. Holt has a plus fastball pitch and a developing change-up. Niese has two adequate pitches neither of which are considered plus pitches.
Fair enough. I guess I’d just consider those two scouting reports to be quite different is all.
How is a first round draft pick underrated?
Because he wasn’t on a lot of scouts radar as a player who could be picked in that range and because most of the fans here flipped out, in a bad way, when we drafted him.
FWIW Saber Scouting did their own formula based ranking, not sure what the formula was, and he and Havens both landed in the top 30.
meaning how it seems ALL of our prospects get no love, and GMs and scouts say how “barren” our system is..maybe underrated wasn’t the right word, but i have a decent amount of faith in our youngsters. It annoys me that every GM makes it seem that if your system isnt as good as the Rays, Dbacks, or BoSox, your system stinks…i like a lot of our guys. Maybe we cant BUILD a franchise around them, but im SURE that a good amount of them can contribute heavily in this league
The pitchers in our system really aren’t underrated. And I’m not sure I can think of a good amount of our players who could contribute heavily.
A lot of our higher ceiling players are at the lower levels right now. Given a year or two, and resisting the temptation to trade from it, our farm system should be looking much more attractive throughout.
But you don’t need every prospect to be a blue chip that shows up in BA’s Top 100. We have several guys who could develop into back of the rotation starters or solid middle relievers, or role playing position players. We can’t expect everyone to be an ace or hit cleanup.
i guarantee you that Kunz, Flores, Carp, Murphy, Niese, F-Mart, Holt, and Davis are contirbutors in the majors (Carp is probably destined to be a DH though)
Thats 8. NOW, 8 out of like what, 100s with all our minor league affiliates isn’t much. But 8 solid players in the bigs, not to mention Carlos Gomez, Humber, Guerra, and Mulvey. Let’s say 2 of them..now that’s 10. 10 guys in our minors who will be names in the bigs REALLY isn’t bad, if you ask me. There are so many guys who never do a damn thing in the bigs, even with the hype.
Thats what I mean when i say other teams give the mets no love on their farm system. Are we getting a raw deal? Maybe not, im not saying we’re in the top 5..but to make it seem like we NEVER have enough to get anyone in a trade, or that we cannot develop players that can eventually contribute, either on our team or another, i think, is silly.
That’s all im saying. Believe it or not, i do A LOT of reading about our young guys. And this is what ive deduced. Thats it. Thats MY OPINION, and im stickin to it dag nabbit!
***10 guys who are in OR WERE IN OUR MINORS***
correction…before im friggin thrown on the cross for leaving that out..
I semi-agree with the younger players, the problem is it’s so much harder to project them. You don’t know how they’ll progress from year to year. Ruben Tejada had a .748 OPS last year, now it’s .596. A guy like Flores is advanced enough that he might make a jump better but a lot of our other high ceiling players really can’t be expected to.
Also outside of Evans and possibly Murphy depending on how his defense, and obviously F-mart I’m not sure we have many positional players that could play a role with us.
I’m worried about Ike Davis too. Looks like the scouts who said he wasn’t going to adjust well to wood bats may have been on to something… I hold out hope though.
And bigchart, I’d add Reese Havens to the list, he is the guy everyone is saying will move quickly.
I gotta agree. Wilmer Flores may also be a sky high prospect. These two, in my opinion may have higher upside than Fernando Martinez and that is pretty damned good.
I’ve been reading stuff about FLores and boy this kid has talent. Big frame kid who is SS now, but has the body for power. He is ripping up the same A-ball team at age 16 that Dwright was playing when he was 19.
Flores is actually playing rookie ball in the Appy League, not A-ball, although yes, he is a special player. Also keep an eye out for Jefry Marte. He just turned 17 last month and is tearing up GCL pitching.
ehh…i knew it was a tenn. league. I knew there was an A in it too. But i was right about his correlation with Dwright. Reyes was playing the same league at 17 also.
Yup, Flores is definitely advanced. I’d expect he’ll be making an appearance in the Mets Top 5 BA prospect list for 2009 (for what it’s worth). And it wouldn’t shock me to find Marte in the Mets Top 10.
I could see this was part of Omar’s plan for the trade deadline. Bring up our top pitching prospect, let him go for AAA tonight, and if all goes right and he plays good then our phone will be off the hook for my “untouchable.” I really do think that could have been part of Omar’s bigger plans. I say past tense b/c that may all change now with the timing of Maine’s injury.
I agree, and I think it’s very smart, but based on the market I’m not sure it’s going to make a huge difference. For an impact bat, like someone better than Ibanez and Winn, teams seem to want larger packages anyway.
I don’t think Omar wants to move Niese for Ibanez or Winn. Just the timing of this move seems like he’s trying to increase Niese’s trade value. He must have someone up his sleeve, b/c I dont think he will trade Niese for just anyone. We haven’t really been linked to any big name bats though. So Im just speculating.
I agree…fact, I made the same comment earlier in the thread
Marty Noble has an interesting read about Maine potentially going to the bullpen. I think they need him more as a starter now but that is intriguing. I think Maine would be a fantastic 8th inning set up guy and maybe eventual closer. But right now we just need to hope his MRI is clean b/c he is huge for this team. I love Niese but not at the expense of Maine so crros your fngers.
hmm…I never thought about that. I could see the point, he has had tough times going deep into games. But on the other hand, we have seen him pitch some gems that have been more than 5 Innings. Just look at the second to last game in 07 and his Game 6 NLCS in 06. I think he can be a solid starter. I don’t know if he has enough breaking stuff for a legit set-up man. Just seeing K-rod and Paps, they both have great breaking stuff to off-set the 2 fastballs.
Maine in the pen is a good idea for the playoffs, but not necesarily during the season, especially with Pedro in the rotation, we don’t know what Niese will offer us yet…
No
Just a thought. Where is Tony Armas Jr? I know he strained his abs, but was that a season ender? Where I check he should have come off the DL a couple of days ago. He would be great in the pen. What’s going on there?
Trading for Huston Street means trading future for future…
its that simple
thats a VERY good point metsflip…no offense to anyone on here, but some people don’t see the value of trading our “future” for another young guy, or a dominant guy (like my Roy Halladay posts where i’d trade 4 out of our top 7 prospects for him) in order to STILL set up our future….
again, Alex Ochoa and Alex Escobar were supposed to be 5 tool, great players…ricky ledee, juan rivera for the yanks…eric milton…it happens all the time..grant roberts..some of these guys were so hyped up and haven’t done a thing.
If you can trade a bunch of prospects for a guy who is controllable for more than a year or even controllable for just next year but is a DOMINATING player at his position (as long as he aint OVER the age or 33, 34) then I think you do it…
I agree almost completely, my only tweak would be that in this “new era” of baseball in which 36 is the new 40, and 32 is the new 36, I might want to lower the age requirement of the acquired to “ain’t over 32.”
Depending on what we’re trading I’d say not over 30. Ie if we were trading players like F-mart and/or Niese I’d want someone we could lock up in a deal and trust to contribute at a high level for at least 3 years.
The problem is you’d be trading future,future,future,future,future for future in a trade with Beane. There’s also the fact there’s doubt to whether Street can be trusted in the closer role.
After watching last night…Omar has got to be reeling for some Set-up man help.
I know Duaner has been struggling recently, but he is the 8th inning guy. Manuel has been burned twice now in the past week by trying to finish the game off by using matchups. Its tough to get a setup man in rhythm when he doesn’t pitch the full inning .
Yeah.. I never thought that missing Heilman in the pen could be this costly
But we saw last night that Smith and Showy does not belong in 8th inning
Well realize that they also didn’t have Heilman for that slot either. IMO the front and second lines of the bullpen are very good, but when you have to mix and match, (like last night, with Smith in the 8th), then you’ll have problems.
are you lost. bullpen, what kind of idiotic idea is this, wow, and if maine riles off 7 innings next 4 starts, he’ll take it back, what a clown. that is a horrible idea, you dont put your number two starter in the bullpen and waste him, horrible idea on marty noble’s part, which i rarely say.
Noble talked about using Maine in relief in the playoffs if all 4 (pelf,martinez,Perez,and Santana) other starters were pitching well or if we only used 3 starters. Under those circumstances Maine makes sense in the bullpen
Don’t misinterpret what I said. I merely was siting the article and idea as intriguing. In no way would I advocate that kind of a change for this year or probably ever but if his struggles with throwing 100 pitches in 5 innings continue it might be worth looking at. (and once again not this year) As far as the Huston Street move, last night made me realize that’s probably a move they should make (depending on what it takes to get him). If Sanchez is going to be pitching the 7th (what happened to their “roles” by the way) I do not trust Heilman in the 8th….no way no how.
I think we should put Santana in the bullpen. He would be a dominant 8th inning guy
So what are we gonna do about our Bullpen? Maybe you should promote Kunz as well.. Maybe make Vargas a reliever? A trade. Please do something
Kunz is worth a shot over Muniz. Bring him up and send muniz packing
we NEED NEED NEED a power arm in the bullpen. Someone who can strike dudes out. Right now we have a lot of pitch-to-contact pitchers, which sets yourself up for bloop and dink innings like last night (for the most part). Is Kunz that guy?
From what I’ve read I think Kunz is a power guy, but he has control issues.
I thought he was more a ground ball pitcher. He has 38 K through 45 innings… good but not great. Walks too many people. Not sure he’s the answer.
He’s got 38 Ks in 45 innings with 23 walks…
Doesn’t sound all that great
SovereignRonnie … you speak my language… we need someone like the Indians Betancourt or Fernando Rodney… Heilman can top 95 occasionally… but we need someone else
yes kunz is a prospect, and probably set up man, muniz is a heath bell esque person
and chicagometsfan, thanks for clearing that up. i was steamed when i heard maine in regular season as a reliever.
Muniz doesn’t have half the stuff Bell had….the only viable comparison between the two is that the Mets sent both of them up and down repeatedly; unjustifiably in Heath’s case in my opinion…that idiot Randolph just ruined Heath’s Mets career….
K ~
what…. no El Dookie? VIVA EL DOOKIE!!!!!
*shivered*
I hope if Niese is to get called up to the bigs because of Maine’s injury, that he performes to his hype of being “untouchable.” I think Omar will hear a lot of heat if he didnt. and a lot pressure will be put on Niese if that’s the case in the heat of a pennant race.
who else is available is Maine is to hit the shelf? No El Duque!! PLEASE NO!!!
Niese is getting prepped for his MLB debut, which will happen after Maine goes on the DL :(
What did you guys think of Brandon Knight? With exception of 1st inning, I thought he was pretty decent.
At least he would be better than Muniz as a long reliever and occasional fill-in.
After all he seems to be doing well in the minors
He’s heading to Beijing for the Olympics
designated for assignment… off to beijing
Brandon Knight? The word “garbage” springs to mind.
MLB hitters can hit a flat fastball….
Niese … check the pics on this guy… the dudes got some really long arms
Off Topic, I heard on the radio that the Mets are going to be looking at Pelfrey’s pitch count/innings pitched real close from now on. They want to limit the number of innings pitched no more than 190ish innings. That means that he’s only going to be pitching 70 more innings. Spreading out over 10 games, that’s only 7 innings per game
he is going to pitch 12-14 games over the span from now to end of season, so its more like 5-6 innings,
anyway, i think that niese is being overhyped, cuz who knows, he might end up being the next andy pettite, or a flop, i just dont want him rushed too quickly, that could scar him for life
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