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After the Mets’ loss against the Marlins on July 28 - a game in which Fernando Tatis went 2-for-4 with a triple and 2 RBI - Mets manager Jerry Manuel publicly announced that Tatis would be the starting left fielder, saying:
“He right now is our leftfielder. There is no question about it.”
Since that proclamation, however, Tatis has started only one game in left field. Instead, he’s started in right field, while left has been manned by a group including Marlon Anderson, Nick Evans, Endy Chavez, and most recently Daniel Murphy.
OK, no big deal - the key has been Tatis in the starting lineup.
Rather, the big deal is that Tatis is only 5-for-21 (.238) with one RBI, one run scored, and no extra-base hits since being named a regular. This is a far cry from the July numbers (.397 AVG, .463 OBP, .767 SLG) that earned him a starting role.
Granted, Tatis does have a 10-game hitting streak going, so perhaps this recent stretch is a simple hiccup.
If not, the corner outfield positions are a concern - particularly since Ryan Church’s return has hit another snag. The Mets are counting on the suddenly struggling Tatis and the unproven platoon of Evans and Murphy to fill what are traditionally ‘offensive’ positions. If these three don’t provide significant offense, their inexperience in the outfield becomes detrimentally counter-productive.
Strangely, the Mets are looking at Rich Aurilia (as linked to by Cerrone earlier today), who has zero experience in the outfield. He’s a nice hitter, but will he hit enough to make up for his glovework? Not likely.
The Mets may have a short leash on the Evans and Murphy experiment, hoping one or both can blossom while Omar Minaya watches the waiver wire for a legitimate outfielder with a power bat. For example, Aubrey Huff might be a nice addition, but at what cost? The Mets have too many ‘untouchables’ in the high minors and can’t afford to deal any of their MLB-ready arms considering the state of the pitching staff. One would hope that if Evans continues to struggle, Val Pascucci will at least get a look.
After the trading deadline passed, Minaya claimed that trading a few of the Mets prospects wasn’t worth a ‘rental” playe’ - a bold statement for a team desperate. I’m not sure I agree, considering that a few of the ‘rentals’ that changed teams would have turned into draft picks in the offseason (as Type “A” or Type “B” free agents), while the other ‘rentals’ would not have cost the Mets their elite prospects.
But there’s still time for one of these prospects to show us why they weren’t dealt, and for Minaya to swing a waiver deal. Let’s hope that two months from now, Minaya’s non-moves prior to the deadline make him look like a genius.
No offense but did you just post this just to uh…. post?
This has nothing new in it at all and says the same thing we have argued about since July 31st.
You give no examples of the “rentals” you are refering to that would have netted us picks IF they had NOT accepted arbitration.
You give no examples of any rentals that could have been had for lesser prospects.
Nothing to see here, move on.
As for Aurilia. I would think that the plan would be to use him in a platoon some with Castillo at 2nd and just over all make the bench better by taking Cancel’s spot. Sending Easley to the OF.
omg you hit it right on the head…bravo!
Rich Aurilia is no help to this team whatsoever. It is ridiculous that he is part of any “plan” involving the Mets at all. How many part time second basemen do we need on this team? Cancel has been pretty good for us off of the bench, and having Easley in the OF is no better than sticking Aurilia there.
Should have sucked it up and offered Martinez and Niese to get in on the 3-way deal with the Buckos and Red Sox. If you didn’t want to re-sign Manny we could have offered him arbitration. If he declined it, we walk off with two draft picks to replace the prospects we surrendered to get him in the first place.
And we wouldn’t be in the predicament we are in right now.
Well….I don’t care what you say, but Aurilia would be a huge upgrade over Cancel. And he probably wouldn’t try to steal 3rd with 2 out and Wright batting either….
As far as Manny, you don’t know where he would have signed and what draft picks you’d get for him. What if he signs with…say…Baltimore. And let’s say they draft 13th. Guess what? You’re down to a sandwich pick. Besides, replacing Fmart and Niese with even 2 first round picks is damn near impossible. So I wouldn’t say that it was as easy as that. If you’re already talking about trading those 2 guys then why get Boston involved in the first place? Trade them to Pittsburgh for Bay and Marte straight up. That’s a trade that could have happened that Omar didn’t pull a trigger on. So we’ll see on Saturday if Niese was worth it. And let’s see if they bring FMart up in September. They might not do it so that he doesn’t get exposed and his value stays high in case we want to trade him in the offseason. I guess it depends on where we are with the roster (church) and in the standings.
But thereal (or should I say t~h~e~r~e~a~l LOL) is right. Joe Janish just wrote a very brief summary of this blog’s message boards over the past week…
Frankly, this team just doesn’t seem to have the horses to make a run toward the playoffs (though with the starting pitching, I’d think they’d do well if they made it). So whats the point in trading a prospect for a marginal player? If they aren’t going to win the division, I’d rather let the kids play, so you know what you have with them, and then enter CitiField ready to go.
It would answer a lot of questions..for instance, if the kids can’t really tread water in the bigs, then perhaps Omar goes for Manny in the offseason..
The fact that Val Pascucci is not up with the Mets is absolutely mind boggling. How good do your AAA numbers have to be before you get a callup?
Ridiculous.
I think it has more to do with the fact that he can’t play any position. Take a look at the over all stats for that league. His numbers are good but so are a lot of has been never were’s in that last.
What I don’t understand is that he has incredible CAREER minor league numbers, and yet he was only called up one time in his career, and only for 32 games.
Tatis, Evans, and Murphy are infielders playing the outfield. Pascucci is a TRUE outfielder.
I would not go as far as saying he is a true OF, LOL. From what we have heard, he is a TRUE DH.
Because:
(1) He’s horrific at defense
(2) He whiffs a lot in AAA
(3) See above.
and I bet you have seen him play a grand total of ZERO times.
time to suck it up and sign Barry Bonds
Or at least see what Bobby Bonilla is up to these days.
I mean hey, we’re still paying him anyway!
sign me up. Someone should start a petition to at least make the mets realize that they would not be shunned for trying to improve the offense.
baseball would do better in the long run to improve our impressions of barry bonds, instead of leaving open the typical media accounts (some clearly self-deserved). Sign Bonds… let him try to show he can be a good teammate. Contrary to media reports, players do like him… he used to pat almost every opposing catcher, and he jokes with all first baseman I’ve seen. I can’t imagine he’d bring his groupies, or he’d even be allowed to.
I think he would simply improve our offense, offer much needed protection for Wright in the 3… and be on base all the time.
LHP
reyes
Beltran
Wright
Bonds
Castro
Delgado
Tatis/Church
castillo/reyes/easley
RHP
reyes
beltran
bonds
wright
delgado
tatis/church
schneider
castillo/reyes/easley
He is an offensive force and our lineup has too many holes. Too bad there is no chance.
dude nobody’s signing bonds. He’s 43 and he can’t play the feild
The Mets have had a hard time fielding a top-notch, or even competent outfield for years now. Having three average to above average outfielders is the exception to the rule with this team (I point you to the 2000 WS team as an example.)
What’s curious is conventional wisdom holds that filling in an outfield is much less challenging a proposition than filling an infield or pitching staff. The Mets have seemingly had much less of a problem doing either of those (bullpen notwithstanding).
What gives?
True enough. It’s that we pride ourselves on pitching. I also think that for a while now we have had our best prospects be OF and none of them so far have worked out for us.
Milledge, Gomez, Fmart, …..
I agree, but still, picking up ML-average outfielders should be EASY. Yet we throw the Benny Agbayanis, the Jay Paytons, the Karim Garcias, the Shane Spencers of the world out there.
Honestly, it should not be hard to put an adequate outfield out there, even if the plan A (see Moises Alou) doesn’t work out.
Agabayani played excellent baseball for the Mets for a few years, Payton was a highly regarded prospect who suffered injuries and arrived late, you cannot possibly with any sense of intellectual honesty lump them in with Garcia and Spencer who were retreads parked on a makeshift roster.
Patrick:
You are right about Agbayani, he played well in a somewhat limited role, but who cares how highly regarded Payton was? He never had an OPS above .775 with the Mets. Excuse me that I included him with Shane Spencer and Karim Garcia (who was an enormously regarded prospect at one time, himself). The point wasn’t to pick exact like players. The point was that the Mets have trotted some pretty mediocre outfielders out there, when conventional wisdom suggests that getting a decent outfield is easier than getting a decent infield.
Yet the Mets keep putting converted infielders and 4th and 5th outfielders out there. It’s uncanny.
Typically, you have sidestepped the point to nit pick the example.
Agbayani played decent ball for us, yes, but he never played even 120 games for us, so he was a part-timer for the most part.
Typically I have side stepped nothing.
The Mets went with a gamble in left with Alou it backfired.
Rightfield blew up in their face with two completely unanticipated concussions.
Payton’s performance not with standing he was a Mets system guy, a highly regarded player coming out of college and a big time prospect prior to getting injured, he battled back and did not pan out but he was not some retread like Spencer of Garcia in their early 30s trying to hang on.
You call me nitpicky, well be right instead of vaguely obtuse.
Agreed…Wright and Reyes were definitely secondary prospects.
Those guys have been in the majors for a while now.
Really? Thanks.
dave27: don’t be a jerk.
If the Tiggers drop out would Magglio be an option?
Haha…. Tigger.
I hear there is this guy who will cost absolutely nothing except cash and can play the outfield. He used to hit home runs. Has a record or something. What was his name again??? Hmmm…
K~~~~~~ something.
Nope. That’s not it. I think his godfather is a Hall of Famer. It’s right on the tip of my tongue…
Bobby Brown?
Dale Berra?!
That dude’s been out of baseball for a while!
Actually, his name is ” * “
“can play” probably not.. “used to” key words..
*
A MetsBlog post without pom poms. I’ve seen it all now. And it’s awesome.
huh?
It’s refreshing to see some bare-bones realism, especially when it comes to Omar and a team that can’t get out of its own way.
I actually like Aurilia - but Omar needs to make up his mind. Is he building for the future (Evans, Murphy, Niese, Kunz) or is he playing to win it this year (Aurilia, uh, and no one else).
Yeah, REAL bear bones. He mentioned no one while making false implications about players that he does not even bother mentioning.
If you are going to be bold how about coming out and saying.
“Omar messed up by not trading Fmart and Niese for Manny.”
Not
“Well there were trades that could have been made that would have given us draft picks and there were trades that could not have cost us much.”
How about this - “Omar messed up by building a weak MLB club and a joke of a farm system. If we only have two prospects to trade and they’re both untouchable, whose fault is it that we only have two prospects that hold any value?”
And it’s “bare” bones. Not “bear” bones.
And let’s not use “not.” That’s something a Phillies fan might do. It just sounds, um, stupid?
It’s Santana’s fault. If we hadn’t made the trade for Santana we could have afforded to make a trade for an outfielder now. How many teams make two big moves like that in a season?
Criticism of Omar for failing to build a farm system is hardly timely, and isn’t consistent with a suggestion that there may have been trades to be made. The crystal clear implication is that someone like Niese or F-Mart should have been traded. Clearly he can’t think Murphy or Parnell really could have netted an impact corner OF bat can he?
No one said it would be any fun reading about the Mets as a “loser” in one of the tired, repetitive, meaningless “deadline winners and losers” columns by Stark, Heyman, [insert national columnist here] on [insert large, lowest common denominator-focused sports network here].com, but we need to resist the temptation to believe that such designations mean a damn thing. I’m convinced, largely by who moved, and for what, that there were not good deals to be had.
Gina
Are you honestly implying that the Santana trade should not have been made?
Had Omar not swung that deal, we might have been able to make a trade for an outfielder, but what would it have mattered? Our team would have been no different that any other Met team over the last 5 years. We would have been able to score runs, but would have been sorely lacking in the starting pitching department.
And we’d all be on here criticizing the Met FO for not being able to swing a trade for a starter. Which, by the way, would have been more difficult than swinging a trade for a corner outfielder with a bat.
Omar absolutely had to make the Johan trade. To imply otherwise is ludicrous IMO. Especially when considering how little it cost us.
No I’m saying we couldn’t make a deal now because we made our big move in the off-season and because of that have a weakened farm system.
Um for one thing trufflesuffle I did not use “not” in the sense that you are implicating. I said it as saying he should NOT have said……….
And you really mean the Mets did not have 6 prospects to trade for Johan and Manny. And in my opinon they did not.
What did he say that has not already been said? In fact what did he say AT ALL? That the Mets have questions in the OF, well duh.
Barry Bonds. Uh. Adam Dunn. I still think Tatis is better than Jayson Werth, even if his step-dad is Dick Schofield.
If somehow Omar could pickup Aubrey Huff, I’d be thrilled. Problem is I don’t know what we have to give up and whether or not he’d clear waivers.
I don’t think it’s as much as what we would have to give up, it’s about him clearing waivers. Counting this season he is owed around 10 million (8 for next season and around 2 for this season).
I would think that the RSox would jump on a chance to get him as would the Twins knowing they could spin him in the offseason, and a few other AL teams. Then in our own league I would not be surprised to see the Braves pick him up.
As for what he would cost, you could soften it by sliding Mora through as well. That would give them a ton of cash of the books and would give us a RH of the bench in a Aurilia mold.
Problem is that none of the players we send back can be on the 40 man roster or they too would have to go through waivers.
Wouldn’t we get a crack at a waiver claim before the Twins and Sox? Didn’t they have better records than we did last year?
It’s based on this season. It’s also based on your league first then the other league.
See mlbtraderumors.com it explains it there.
Got it. Thank you.
Great post…. esp reminding everyone about baseball’s draft pick compensation.
Manny Ramirez = 2 first round draft picks
NO HE DOES NOT.
You would have to offer him arbitration and he would have to decline. He MIGHT, but if he does not then you are on the hook for him for about 22.5 MILLION DOLLARS. Then you would have Manny being Manny in a contract year AGAIN.
Manny being Manny is overrated.
As part of the deal, Manny agreed to decline arbitration when the Dodgers offer it to him - so they will get those two picks (unless they resign him, of course). The Mets could have easily asked for the same condition.
Show me where he said that. He said he wanted them to decline the option years. And when has Manny ever been truthful?
Manny wants a long term deal.. so he is NOT going to accept arbitration…
If he does.. and we pay him 22 million that means we get ANOTHER year of a top 5 hitter… for the combined 2008 Salary of:
Moises Alou (7.5 million)
Brian Schneider (5 million)
Orlando Hernandez (7 million)
Scott Schnoenwies (3.6 million)
So really, who are you kidding when it comes to Money.. not to mention the fact we’re paying Pedro 12 million! So far he’s pitched 49 innings! That’s 244K per inning.
So.. if you want to argue that Manny’s only a rental or a waste of draft picks… you have no argument since you:
Either get a 2nd year of Manny for the price of 4 of our worst players
Or you get two drafts picks.
Independent thought.. ain’t it amazing
You can’t get rid of Show and Schnieder so their money is still there. You also have a hole at 1B and 2 SP. We have 40 million coming off the books so that leaves 18 million to spend on 3 positions. Good luck. Then when Manny leaves you have absolutely no one to replace him.
Worst case scenario is that he accepts your arbitration offer. If he does, (and you lose), then you will be on the hook for his big salary for one year.
Not really a big deal in the case of the Mets. He would easily out produce anyone the Mets could roll out into LF next season. At least you would have a hole filled. If you aren’t happy with him after that, let him walk. Then you get your draft picks.
Maybe by that time you’ll have someone in-house ready to take over in left.
You can’t have someone in house ready because you just traded our only OF prospect.
The Mets have minor league outfielders not named Fernando Martinez, you know.
Really, which one will be ready in 2 years?
Like who?
Not even joking, what minor league outfielders do we have not named Martinez that even have an outside chance of making any major league roster, let alone ours.
Val Pawhatever. LOL.
Evans
Evans is not an OF prospect by any means. He is an infielder.
And you really want our BEST positional prospect (ready in 2 years or less) to be Nick Evans? Our only starting pitcher to be Parnell?
Evans is a first basemen.
you who are all so certain that Evans nor Murphy could possibly play the outfield, recall that our other corner outfielder had not played pro ball in three years and was really a thirdbasemen and has managed to handle himself just fine.
gee if we get Rich Aurelia whos next… the great Ross gload?Or maybe omar can convince Todd Van poppel to make a comeback and become the next nolan ryan?
Is Aurilia better than Robinson Cancel?
He’s probably better than our entire bench, which is sad. How can this team contend by bringing up guys from AA.
Why do you hate Cancel so much?
He’s an inexperienced player who made a baserunning blunder.
Other that that he has been pretty good for the Mets coming off of the bench.
12/63 in his CAREER. He is not a good hitter, fielder, runner……
There is no reason for him to be on a team looking to make the post season. There is not another team with hopes of playing in October that would have him on their roster.
Wow. Just wow.
MetsBlog is truly an enigma.
In one post I read how important it is for the Mets to have more young, homegrown talent.
In the next I read how a guy like Robinson Cancel should be nowhere near a team with playoff aspirations.
Wouldn’t you say you are being a little quick to judge on this one?
What does he have to do with home grown talent?
You are joking right?
And what does he have to do with young?
i hear century village has a plethora of major league ready outfielders!
headline ..headline…i think we just got matt stairs!
just kidding.
Haven’t got tired of doing that yet?
Omar just loves older players!
no not really.all jokes aside im tired of omar signing old players.
you cant seriously tell me that Rich Aurelia is going to take the mets to the series!
Wow..so Manuel fed us bs…no surprise there.
yeah, but delgado has been good, wright for the first time in a while is streaky and struggling, and beltran sorta seems to have picked it up. its not the offense, but the bullpen. but i would like to see a homegrown ballclub, its like saying by trading prospects, the mets trade away 10-15 years of their future for 2-3 years of self glorification. and by the way, does team payroll mean anything at all about how good a team ends up. the rays
This team doesn’t use the draft propperly enough to have a successful homegrown ballclub.
i agree 100%.
Have you seen some of their draft picks? The draft seems to look pretty good, they just don’t keep anyone. Such as Fernando Vina, A.J. Burnett, Raphael Palmero, Scott Kazmir and others. (If you curious I got those names from baseball-reference.com)
Those guys aren’t really recent. Maybe Kazmir but he wasn’t drafted under this regime.
True enough, there just seems to be a habit of this.
Reyes, Wright. Smith. Santana is a result of the farm system.
i third that, they dont draft above slot, its better to play dirty than be a good noodle at the expense of the fans, the team, the players, and the state of the ballclub.
It’s not about the slot, imo, it’s that they seem to target low-risk players, and usually low upside, players who they think will advance quickly. How many high school bats and/or pitchers have we taken at all the last few years?
Milledge wasn’t low risk. But generally you are right. They love that “has future middle reliever written all over him” type of guy.
Ike Davis, aside, this year’s draft might be ok.
Ike Davis aside? We’re giving up on him already?
I am. The 5 walks have sold me already.
I was suspicious when I first heard his name come up with the Mets because nobody else seemed remotely interested, and the walks have sealed it for me.
I hope I’m wrong, but he has career minor leaguer written all over him. Check with me again in 5 years. If I have to eat crow, I will.
This year’s draft will be okay, but still the two first round picks were low risk players, although I think Havens will at the very least be a productive starter.
And I’m with you on Davis, it’s not like he was a project player the best thing about him was supposed to be that he’d move through the system quickly. I don’t see much chance of that happening now.
Hey Tidewater that is 4 more walks than A. Reyes and R. Cancel combined.
Yes, but neither of those guys were first round draft picks, nor are either one of them major league regulars, nor should they be.
They are both pretty much career minor leaguers too. But Cancel’s a catcher, so despite what the movie Bull Durham would have you believe, it was likely he’d eventually see some playing time. As for Reyes, some people still forgive middle infielders for not knowing how to get the most out of their offense.
Never said they were. I am just saying it’s too early to give up on Ike.
If we’re hoping that Ike Davis follows the career paths of Argenis Reyes and Robinson Cancel, he wasn’t much of a first round pick.
Some of this is Peterson. he would submit his recommendations, and they were based on valid things, just not baseball things. He had, and has, and is still working in this dept, about analyzing delivers and arm angles and picking out guys with high probabilities of having injuries. It’s good for the overall health of the minor league pitchers, but if they’re not good enough, who cares ifthey’re going to get injured down the road?
So does anyone think Rich Aruilia can make a difference on this team? I simply cannot believe that this team is one player away from making a serious run in the playoffs. I agree totally with what I read earlier about not getting a real outfielder for a few years now. The prospects that have been called up, IMO, should stay with the club. Or at least in the organization. If a trade can be made through waivers so be it, IF no top prospects are dealt away. I took a look at the Mets draft picks since 1984 last night and it made me sick. As for Pascucci, this is why you brought him to AAA. Might as well give it a shot, especially with Church’s future for this season up in the air. And can we all please drop this Barry Bonds business. What would have to happen when he took one swing and broke down again. We’re right back where we started. It is what it is guys, we might as well keep these kids and add them to the core of the team if they’re ready.
I would like to see Guiseppe Franco in left. Good with the stick, solid glove, and he’s available.
I don’t own this ball club. I don’t know anything about it. I just know that Guiseppe Franco is the best option to play left field for this team.
I’m sure he’d look great in the post game interviews as well.
i think we all need the day off as well
how about adam lind in left and hunter pence in right? with beltran in the middle.[thats what i wanna see!]
Good idea, lets put guys in the outfield who play for other teams.
they dont play for other teams if we aquire them.
I think we’ve all been duped here. When Willie was fired and replaced with an interim-manager that was the first sign we were shooting for 09. The win streak was another tease, but realistically, it’s hard to picture this team in the WS with such a terrible bullpen and weak OF. And after the trade deadline netting ZERO impact players I think we should just start to believe that this season is “not ours.”
Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think Manny would have brought us the WS. Wagner has been awful (and now hurt), Maine can’t make it past the 5th, neither can Pedro, RF is still an abyss, and we have no true bridge from started to closer. You really wanted to trade our 2 best prospects for 2 months of not having a LF question, but still so many other holes? Even if we got 2 draft picks, you’re still on the losing end of that deal.
This is Minaya’s final year with the Mets. Firing Randolph opened the curtain. His incompetence can no longer be concealed.
It was never about Willie (as much as everybody blames him for “it” rather than the chump players we have who play with no heart.).
its really hard to take anyone with that nickname seriously
How come no one on metsblog besides Cerrone - and one kid who is in college - has a bio listed on the site? Can we see some qualifications?!
I played 3B for the 1969 World Championship New York Mets.
“Don’t ever throw a slider to The Glider.”
Forget the corner outfielder this bullpen is the worst I’ve seen in years. They have ruined countless Johan gems, and really turned a number of close games into complete laughers. Yes, it would be nice to have a real bat in one of the corner positions but without a consitent bullpen, I dont care if we bring Barry Bonds circa 98 back. Beltran should take off his skirt and start anchoring and back up what has been a pleasantly surprising performance from Tatis. Of course the guy was bound to cool off. Still we have easily blown 10 games and turned countless others into laughers late……..At present we are the sevewnth best team in the NL, unless Church gets healthy, Beltran actually hits to his capability and the Bullpen stops giving up 3 and 4 runs continuously I dont see us has having a realistic shot to make it to the big dance. And no I can’t blame Omar for not making a move, Bay is ok but not worth out top prospects and Manny is a disgrace, albeit a great hitter, anyone who whines that makes 20 million dollars to play this game is no one I want on this team. Period!
Totally agree!
Thanks for that post. I have always been one to defend our bullpen, but I’m out of excuses.
Longing for the days of Darren Oliver and Chad Bradford…
Ummmm….Joe…
In what world exactly is Rich Aurilia a “nice hitter?”
Is it the 5 seasons out of the last 7 in which he’s had an OPS below .750 that sold you?
Is it the career .330 on-base percentage of a 37 year-old FIRST BASEMAN that gets you goin?
You could throw a dart in a crowded bar after a company softball game and find better offensive production from a first baseman.
ReyesMets, you know that Aurilia is a utility IF. He should not be compared to other starting 1B. He is a backup player, much like Marlon Anderson except he can at least still attempt to play the field.
I would much rather have him than Cancel.
I won’t say that I think your openly hostile attitude toward Cancel here is wrong for argument’s sake.
What purpose does bringing Rich Aurilia here serve? Is it for his veteran leadership skills?
Seriously, I don’t get it. Robinson Cancel aside, how many over the hill, past their prime infielders do we need?!
I swear to God, I look at some of the moves that Omar makes and think that he is collecting players that impressed him while he was working as a scout for Texas.
I think it’s more of who is available to fill in Anderson’s role? Pick him up and if someone else becomes available thats better then just release him or send him somewhere else. You are not really losing anything of value.
I thought it was blasphemous and inappropriate for Christians to use the Lord’s name in vain.
You make the same mistake that so many before you have made…
My name is Christian. Nice to meet you.
I suspected that. ; )
Welcome aboard.
Let’s Go Mets!
Aurilia was a poor fielding infielder when he was young and in his prime. I shudder to imagine what he’s like now.
Riddle me this: if Rich Aurilia is a “utility infielder” still capable of holding down a middle infield position, tell me why he hasn’t played a single inning at 2nd base or shortstop this year?
Uhm because they already HAD 2 old men playing 2B and SS. He has played some 3rd this year and played every infield position last season. He is not great but he is a decent replacement of Anderson.
Aurilia can’t replace Marlon Anderson. Aurilia is a RH batter.
Thanks, but I think we were looking for a RH too?
Also, you still have some explaining to do. You just mentioned Cancel as a young homegrown prospect. Do you have an answer to that?
Really??
The Giants have had SIX different players play 2nd base this year and FIVE different players play shortstop this year and yet Rich Aurilia (who has been on the team all year) has not logged a single inning at either position?
Sure, sure, sure, he can DEFINITELY still handle the position no problem, right?
Nope. I misspoke.
I realize that Cancel is neither young nor homegrown.
I was sort of basing my point on the fact that he is a guy who has not really ever had a real shot in the Majors. What’s the difference between that and a young, homegrown player?
And Marlon Anderson is supposed to be serving a specific purpose. He is supposed to be a pinch hitting specialist. On the many days that Endy is starting, he is also the lone LH hitter on our bench. How does replacing that with Aurilia help anything?
Did he play there last season? Did he have to play 1B so much last season?
Again we are debating the wrong thing here. Do I think he can field well anymore? NO. Do I think he is an upgrade over Cancel, Anderson, and or Evans? Yes.
Cancel is 32 years old. He does not fit either the mold of bringing up youth to see what happens or a veteran player. He’s just uh…..
Hopefully Endy never starts. Our bench is pretty bad right now either way.
Castro/Schnieder, Endy, A. Reyes, Evans/Murphy, Cancel.
Tell me that Aurilia would not be an offensive addition to that group for THIS season.
Upgrade HOW????? He doesn’t have a position to play!!!
You can’t waste a roster spot on a 37 year-old backup first baseman with no versatility that hits like Rich Aurilia hits. Period.
If the guy could still play a middle infield position or had ever logged a major league inning in the outfield in his entire career then maybe, JUST MAYBE, you would have a leg to stand on
What position did Anderson play? What position when Castro is healthy does Cancel play? What position did Julio Franco play? Why does he need to play 2B anyway? We have 105 of those already.
So far this season Cancel and Anderson have played the equivilant of 22 games total the entire season. We are talking about a pinch hitter here.
Julio Franco should never have been on the team and was a complete waste of a roster spot for a year and a half.
Anderson can play 2nd base (if necessary) and plays the outfield and if a lefty bat off the bench. Am I happy with Anderson being on the team? Of course not — he sucks. But at least the roster spot has a plausible explanation.
Cancel allows greater flexibility at catcher. Once again, in an ideal world do I want Cancel on the team? Of course not. But that does not mean you throw good money after bad and perpetuate one mistake with another.
Aurilia has zero defensive value, has barely hit above replacement level for the past seven years, and hamstrings the team’s flexibility by having zero versatility whatsoever. AND he’s expensive — a pro-rated 4.5 million a year.
Do you think Anderson would be better or worse at 2B than Aurilia? Over the past 3 years Anderson had played around 35 games at 2nb base and none at SS. Aurilia has played 56 games in between 2nd and SS.
And good money? What else are they going to spend 1.25 million on? Besides it’s not like they could not ask the Giants to chip in a little anyway if they wanted a prospect back at all.
The only thing that Cancel should allow us is for Castro to be a pinch hitter but we don’t seem to use him in that role anyway.
Same reason that Kevin Millar has not played in the OF, yet many in MetsBlogLand still seem to think that he is the answer to our corner outfield problem.
Defintely not the answer to the OF but again, he would be a nice replacement for Marlon or Cancel.
That Jeff Conine trade from last year would be a really big help right now, wouldn’t it?
One of his type. Remember when we got Shawn Green? Not great but very serviceable.
no offense to Cerrone or the rest of the writers, but Joe Janish’s bloggings are worthless. As has been said many times earlier, he just spews things out we all know anyway and his points are horrible at best. Its not worth reading and I don’t think he helps Metsblog at all.
Thanks for that, I thought I was the only one.
He said absolutely nothing, yet tried to make some bold accusations with out puting his neck out and saying ANYTHING.
Terrible bloging. I don’t think I have ever even critqued a post before but this one was just bad.
Ouch.
Just a guy sharing his thoughts.
You know that you don’t HAVE to read his post, right?
What thoughts did he sare?
It’s ok, like I said it’s just not up to the normal standard of Metsblog.
christian warrior,
I know that and I know I don’t have to read it, but as therealsince86 said..its not up to the normal Metsblog standard and never is.
Many of us “normal” readers could do a better job.
I’ve been reading here as long as anybody, and I know what the standards are.
Your comments just seemed a little harsh. This isn’t exactly the New York Times he is writing for, you know.
I know, it’s usually better than the Times. And yes I know you have been here a long time, we have had a many a battle on here through the years.
Fair enough.
yup, christian warrior, obviously you are absolutely allowed your opinion, I just wanted to make mine known…
ahh the battles :)
Jesus H. Christ! (BTW, what the the “H” stand for?)
Pitching wins championships. Remember?
Auerilia, Millar, are not even outfielders. Our infield is fine. We need our pitching — starting and relief — to improve for us to win.
When we went on a 10 game winning streak, it was our pitching that carried us (along with timely hitting). We need a streak (again) where we pitch very well, play solid defense, not do dumb things on the base paths (yes, you Cancel), and get some timely hitting.
We are not the Phillies; never will be; and never should be. We are the NY Mets and we should be playing to our strengths. The problem now is that Maine and Wagner are shelved for a bit. The rest of the team has to “step up” and pick up the slack. Championship teams do that. I guess we’ll all find out what we’re made of during the next 1 - 2 weeks.
I agree completely, our pitching is our biggest concern.
However, if wanting to upgrade the bench Millar and Auriia types are about it.
I’ll take Millar. Aurilia? Eh.
What would you do with Millar?
Spell Delgado occasionally at first base against tough lefties. And play an occasional corner OF position, especially if Church doesn’t come back healthy. (Wince.)
But he has played in the OF three times in the last 2.5 years. That doesn’t concern you at all?
We know that Millar has not played much OF lately. Again this is the Marlon Anderson spot. He played in about 20 games the entire season. He was THE pinch hitter. Every team has one. They don’t have to play defense that much.
Think Matt Franco here.
The guy played the equivilant of 153 games in the field his entire career but some how made 1113 plate apperances during that span.
We are looking for a decent pinch hitter AND an OF. We can do both.
Christian, of course it concerns me. But we’re scrambling here. I’m just trying to get a little bit of firepower from the right side of the plate. I would have preferred XNady, obviously. But that didn’t materialize. So…… Can Millar be any worse than Tatis in the OF?
I guess, but what is the point? I mean, it isn’t like Millar is a no brainer upgrade to Marlon Anderson if you are only going to use him as a PH and nothing else. At least Anderson is a LH batter and is used to the PH role. Millar isn’t either.
And I know we are looking for a RH bat, but I don’t think we’d want to add it at the expense of our only real LH bat off of the bench.
Well with Marlon injured I think they are looking for anyone with a pulse. Plus I think they would like to send Evans back down.
this proves that Omar does not know what the hell to do at this point.
well hope you know that your job could be at stake Omar….
As for the outfield … I would send down Evans and keep Murphy. Murph looks like a hitter up at the plate and does not appear as overwhelmed as Evans does.
Lets see Murphy play a week before we said that. Remember how Evans looked after his 1st game.
He got 3 hits in his first game, but they were all to right field. He looked like he was fighting off everything. While I was happy with the results and was not particularly impressed.
I know this sounds touchy-feely, but Murphy looks like he’s got a better swing up there.
Just my opinion. (But I hope I’m right and you’re wrong.)
: )
Oh I agree, I THINK Murphy will be much better. There is something different about him.
I also would send Evans down, he just needs to go back down and work on a few things and get regular AB’s. He has not done poorly, just not enough to stay right now.
Agreed.
From what I understand scouts believe Murphy is the most offensively advanced player we have in AA. I know baseball prospectus had him rated above Evans and Carp and I think he was the only one of those three to make our top ten prospect list for them.
You are correct. The only reason Evans was called up 1st is his handedness (is that a word?)
I think it was because of Evan’s being on the 40 man roster as well, which may have to do with his being right handed. I have no idea handedness is a word but firefox’s spell check says it is.
And in the land of baseball, just so things to show you other teams have issues too.
Prince Fielder just threw a haymaker at his OWN starting pitcher.
Joba just left the game with shoulder issues.
Is that true about Joba???
Yup and Fielder.
WOW, that’s spectacular!!!!
No one deserves Tommy John more than Joba.
Hey, I don’t like him but Karma buddy, Karma. Maine and Wagner are now out for the season because of you. ;)
No way, Maine and Wagner don’t act like Joba, Joba made his own bad karma.
True enough, but I never like to take chances with the Baseball Gods especially when they have been raining down on us all season.
Guys would you not guess that we could still have Randy Winn? I would take him right now. He would have to clear waivers being that he is signed next season.
I’s really rather just see what Murphy has
I guess, but If Church does not come back we really do need a real OF.
Yeah that’s true.
Dan “Robo Cop” Murphy!
What’s this about Prince Fielder throwing a haymaker at his own pitcher? Huh? Whah? Really?
I just read it on the espn web site. Fielder went up to Parra in the dugout in during the 7th inning after Parra (9-5 btw) was lifted for a pinch hitter. Allegedly, Fielder pushed Parra twice before teammates broke it up.
… blah, blah, blah. Watch the Brew Crew go on and win 12 in a row. Why can’t our guys get into fights and then go on a winning streak?
I say resign LoDuca for the sole purpose of starting a fight between him and Bel-TRAN … and then we move on to the winning streak, of course.
the guy couldn’t even make the Nationals.
There has been plenty of ‘fights’ and all that stuff people like toscream about. none of it has any effect.
I was just kidding.
I say let the Brew Crew fight, they were rather combative with themselves last season and they finished on the outside looking in.
As if that really had a lot to do with their finish. If you search through baseball history you will find teams that won where you would swear the players held hands and sung kumbaya. OTOH their have been teams like the old St. Louis Gashouse Gang that Keith Hernandez refers to where there were fist fights in the clubhouse. I couldn’t care less about the clubhouse ambiance. I’m more interested on how they perform on the field and I loved the arrogance, cockiness and piss and vinegar of the 1986 Mets. Where is Ray Knight when you need him? :)
Hey if there is no other option for next season (I’m going to get killed for this) is anyone for Pat Burrell in left?
He seems to be the best of the soon-to-be free agent OF. Cots baseball contracts has the list, I tried to cut and paste it and it went ‘poof!’
Sign me up.
He seems to be a Met killer so I figured if you can’t beat him, hire him.
Dude Pat Burrell is like the typical Met fan’s mortal enemy
BTW, you all read about Val Pascucci’s 3 HR game. Well, guess what? (”What?”) Two of the HRs were against none other than …
Micah Owings, who was recently demoted to AAA.
I wonder how long it will be before Owings switches to OF.
Matt … this Janish guy has to go. All of his opinions are the work of Captain Obvious. I didn’t realize the Mets were weak in the corner outfield …
Also curious that he chooses a 6 game sample size, one in which the entire Mets offense has been lackluster, to pick on Tatis. Since Tatis has been named the regular, David Wright is also 3 for 22. He may not be the answer at 3B either.
I don’t mean to offend or be mean, but Mr. Janish is not up to par with your work and others. I mean, you have sources and speak to people in front offices around baseball. The only difference b/w this guy and me is his picture is on the site.
Agreed, as I have already stated. Hopefully, he will learn from this post and end up providing something to this board in the future.
Let’s not be too hard on Mr. Janish. This post was not that bad at all. I’m mean, we all are a little frustrated these days. We don’t have to poor Janish our kicking dog.
(I don’t recall any of his “priors” sticking out in my head, either.)
I mean, he does bring up a valid basic point: why are we looking at Aurilia with all our corner OF problems right now? Perhaps that was “stating the obvious,” but it was not THAT bad.
It’s a blog, for God’s sake. Settle down. Just because Janish isn’t kissing Omar’s a$s is no reason to rip the guy. I think this post was one of the best I’ve read on MetsBlog in a few days.
By the way, what front offices are in contact with Matt? While you’re at it, let me know more about Ted Berg’s qualifications.
; )
Thanks for the support, guys. As for the critics, you are quite right … much of the obvious has been stated — for the most passionate and “in tune” fans. However there are at least five or six people out there who think Tatis will continue hitting a shade under .400 through the end of the season and that Dan Murphy really is the next George Brett. So this was my attempt to educate the naively optimistic fans.
And as for qualifications, I have a BA in English and over 15 years’ experience as a professional editor, writer, and copywriter. I’ve authored over a dozen non-fiction books (none on baseball, yet) that have been published in 9 different languages and sold tens of thousands of copies worldwide. I’ve also been playing baseball for over 25 years — I’m an old fart now trying to keep up with the youngins’ in a semipro league but was a 4-year starter and an All-American at the NCAA D1 level about a hundred years ago, and coached D1 for a few years after that. I still give baseball lessons at a facility in northern NJ, and I work for Don Mattingly’s baseball bat company (please don’t tell him I’m a Mets fan).
Hope that helps clear things up.
Joe … I wasn’t questioning your writing ability … but rather your thesis.
However, now knowing that you were writing in attempt to curtail exuberant optimism from the casual or newer fan, I understand. Come to think of it, your post a month ago about Manuel was basically the same thing .. .convincing guys to give Jerry a month. I think I understand now.
Nichols does the pregames, Jordan talks to the minors, and you try to educate. Understood.
Adios.
Hey Nails, I wasn’t singling anyone out, but I appreciate your response.
With nearly every post I make, there are a number of people wondering who the heck I am and why I’m writing for MetsBlog … and since my bio isn’t up, I can completely understand. After all it’s not like I’m Jon Heyman.
That said, I’m simply trying to establish that I’m somewhat credible, and not some wannabe hack scraped from the bowels of a bad journalism class. And I do have some “inside sources”, though most are scouts, players, and coaches throughout baseball (mostly, people I played with or coached).
Hey BTW you’ve identified some of our “roles” … very Manuel-esque, eh?
uh, who thinks Murphy exactly is going to be George Brett? And to root for a kid who had worked hard at every level of the Mets system, performed and earned the right for shot to help the club is naive how?
GIve me a break.
one thing about all this concern about which player is or is not an OF.
Why is it so upsetting to some people when a guy switches positions? Don’t other teams have players move from 1B to 3B, 3B to OF, OF to 1B, and so on?
You also have no idea how many games someone like Evans played in OF during LL, HS, College (well, not him, but you get the idea). If he has the wheels and arm and BB instincts, he can get used to LF or RF OK (IMO, of course!).
Carbrera went from 1B to 3B to LF. And you can’t blame him for being a lousy OF on not having played the position, rather he just isn’t very good with the glove..
OF is also the easier way to go. It just takes a little getting used to reading the balls off the bat, and positioning (and the dugout does that). Not like learning footwork at 1B (right, Piazza?)
To state is succinctly, how much worse can he be defensively than Tatis? Question is, will he give us as good an offense?
someone tell me why the white sox can aquire young pitchers like gavin floyd and john danks[who by th way are both doing well.]
how they got them? in which trades?
i just mean why is it the white sox can make those trades and develop these pitchers and we dont.
Danks- because texas’s gm was an idiot, really that trade was ridiculous, but he’s since made up for it.
floyd- they bought low on him, he was a good pitching prospect who struggled heavily in his major league time but was still young with upside.
wish Omar would make some similar moves.
we should be able to make trades like these.
what you mean like getting Maine and Perez as toss ins?
i wonder if texas would consider trading eric hurley another highly touted pitching prospect.Or if Omar would consider talking to san francisco about matt cain.
The rangers are pretty desperate for young pitchers. you would have to give them a hell of a package. They would be willing to give up young offense for young pitching though.
Omar doesn’t buy low on prospects, he buy’s low on old guys.
Scratch that, he was the guy that got us Oliver Perez and John Maine.
He still buy’s low on way too many old guys. Too bad we didnt get Josh Hamilton in the rule 5 draft….
Omar did a fantastic job putting together the ‘06 team, and getting Maine and Perez. Keep in mind where we were in ‘04.
Since then, he’s been more alright than great, but if nothing else, I think we’re in a very good position for the next few years.
Building that ‘06 team required such guys as El Duque, Pedro, and Delgado, whose contracts are now painful to look at. Delgado, maybe not so much, but it’s still a lot of money.
When we made those moves then, you had to see that it would hurt down the road. Hence a bit of a speed bump now.
If we go out and retool next year, looking at some combination of Burrell, Dunn, K-Rod, CC, and another starter (yeah, I know we’re not getting them all, duh) we should contend for a while.
And it’s not like this season is a bust. We have two months left.
the deals you site as problems, Pedro was a free agent deal, the Mets gave up no first round pick because of where they were when they signed him, that was the year they drafted Pelfrey, Boston got a supplemental.
Duque was acquired for that clown from Baltimore and signed to a nominal deal.
Delgado was traded for basically nothing.
I think he was talking about the contracts rather than the trades. I agree with him, Omar hasn’t been great but he’s done a decent job of building a team that can compete, without completing mortgaging the future, in a very short time. I think there are better gms out there but I don’t think taking the chance on an upgrade would be worth the risk of sending the franchise back into turmoil.
well that is all a little short sighted on the contracts, those acquisitions got the Mets on the map again especially Pedro, in a years time the Mets were within either a good ninth inning relief appearance or a good ninth inning hit of the world series.
Pedro and El Duques injury status in the playoffs not withstanding, the team got there.
And last year the team folded like a house of cards, I do not know exactly why, but this much is true, if the Mets remain a float and get the job done for better or worse 2007 goes down on Randolph, which ironic because Minaya got the players and the manager. But everyone continues to seek specific individuals to blame.
you can’t be serious
He does sell low though. So maybe he’s getting there?
-Val Pascucci, as many have mentioned above, is pretty much a DH.
-We do need a Pinch Hitter in our lineup, that plays little to no Defense, as many have mentioned above.
-Am I the only one making this connection?
Tatis IS on a 10 game hitting streak, yet everyone is discounting that.
The roster should be…
1B-Delgado
2B-Castillo (what else are we gonna do with him)
SS-Reyes
3B-Wright
LF- Tatis
CF-Beltran
RF- Church (hopefully he comes back, if not Murphy and Endy)
C-Shneider
SP-Santana
SP-Pelfrey
SP-Pedro
SP-Perez
SP-
BP(lefty)-Feliciano
BP(righty)-Smith
BP-Heilman
BP-Sanchez
BP-Muniz-until Wagner comes back
BP-Showenweis
CP-Kunz
Bench- Castro backup catcher
Bench- Chavez backup outfeilder
Bench- Murphey backup outfeilder
Bench- Pascucci pinch hitter
Bench- Easley backup infeilder
extra spot - Aubrey Huff, if he’d clear waivers, otherwise Rich aurillia (if Church isn’t coming back
Maine is the missing spot, I meant to type someone like Niese in until Maine comes back
Church is not coming back, the Mets were attempting to play a decoy on that.
Castillo got hurt in his single A appearance last night.
thats not bad, I dont want to see him at 2B anymore anyway.
The Mets have great starting pitching , one of the worst bullpens in the league and a really bad offensive lineup (especially in homerun numbers). It is actually impressive that they are hanging in their like this but they do not have the players with career stats like their competition does. Omar made a big mistake by putting all his faith in aging players like castillo and alou. Add on the Ryan Church unfortunate situation. With all that said if Wagner doesnt have the most blown saves of all the competing teams the mets would still be in first place. It seems like everything has gone wrong for this team all at one, if just one of these things didnt go wrong Mets are in first place. (and I even left out Beltran and Wrights down years).
Beltran and Wright will have big August numbers.
This team will sink or swim on pitching, not offense. The offense, while not great, is decent enough to keep them in games. Everyone slumps. But if Pelfrey succumbs to not having ever pitched more than 130 innings, Maine’s hurt, Pedro’s done, and the bullpen is overtaxed, they could field an all-star offense and it won’t matter.
the starting is the least of my concerns the bullpen has coughed up way too many games.
Do we definitely know that Church’s comeback has taken another snag? Yes, he’s being examined in NY, but do we know why?
There is more going on then the Mets are telling us. Last time they said he just had a normal headache that was unrelated to the concussions. If that was true we would have seen him by now. I wonder what they are not telling us ?