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Last night for Triple-A New Orleans, Mets LHP Jon Niese let up two runs and six hits in six innings.
The 21–year-old Niese is 2–0 with a 2.08 ERA in two starts at Triple-A.
…i was hoping to see niese start for the Mets at Shea Stadium this weekend against the Marlins, filling in for the missing John Maine…the buzz around the team seems to suggest either niese, Claudio Vargas or Robert Parnell will be called upon to pitch either Friday or Saturday, depending on whether Oliver Perez is given an extra day of rest…
For what it’s worth, according to Toby Hyde from Mets Minor League Blog, Mets GM Omar Minaya was in New Britain this past weekend to watch Parnell’s last start.
In 23 starts for Double-A Binghamton this season, the 23-year-old Parnell is 10–6 with a 4.33 ERA, while striking out 87 batters and walking 56 in 122 innings pitched.
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Just bring up Niese.
With Murphy and Kunz up, the youth movement has begun. We might as well finish it off and give Niese some big league experience before he possibly joins the staff full time in 2009.
why would anyone be interested in seeing vargas pitch again??????
because i want to beat florida?
Because he pitched well when last up.I would lilke the Mets to beat the Marlins and as Gary and Keith mentioned Sunday the righty dominant Marlins are not a great match up for the 1st ML start of Niese.
good point.
Stole my thunder. The Marlins big boppers are righty. I’d almost rather see Claudio Vargas pitch this game, but it’s tempting to go with Niese. We need to get some momentum going into that series, or else those throw blankets they are giving away on Saturday night won’t be necessary this year.
The Marlins are worse against lefties.
vargas. he’s the best of the 3 right now, which is what matters.
you are up rook! please bring up a kid
Niese is “untouchable” and I want to see why. Bring him on up!
We are in the middle of a pennant race and you want to start giving 21 year-old prospects their first cup of coffee in the bigs?
The Marlins and Rays have played with prospects all year long. The Rays are in 1st place with one of the best records in the bigs, and the Marlins are right there contending for their division.
Hi Willie. I thought you were gone?
heres the thing…you want a RIGHTY to start against the Marlins, would love to see Niese, but come on, this lineup can murder an inexperienced lefty..
lets go w/ parnell or Vargas people
wow i actually agree with you.
is that rare? I find myself to be one of the more levelheaded people here
i don’t flip for no apparent reason, I don’t call for people’s heads…etc
Normally I would say Niese, but this time I like Parnell because…
A) Prevents 3 lefties in a row (Santana, Perez, Niese)
B) Niese pitched last night, so Friday would be on 3 days rest, they could push him back to Saturday for Normal rest but they wanted to give Perez an extra day.
C) Either way they’d be facing the Marlins. The Marlins are a heavy RHB lineup (Ramirez, Uggla, Willingham, Cantu, Ross). Better matchup for the Righty.
So im inclined to say go with Parnell for the spot start.
I think it should be Niese or Vargas. Niese is at AAA while Parnell is at AA, why would they call him up over the other kid. Vargas has been pitching well and he would be a good matchup against the Marlins. But it should be a 2 horse decision.
my god, niese was in AA for all but two starts, AAA is just dung bell major leaguers who couldnt make it.
yea..but you haven’t made a point at all.
why would they bring up parnell over niese? they let the kid play in AAA and then there gonna bring someone up that used to be alongside him? it doesnt make any sense.
And you can’t criticize AAA because these kids are there to learn off the veterans. Its a big benefit to have kids feed off some guys who have been in the show and may have had success or may have struggled, either way its all good experience for prospects.
you always manage to somehow find a loophole in my comment, dont you dude/dudette.
I almost agreed with you til I saw Parnell’s stats- he’s cooled off quite a bit since the all-star break, 3 starts ago he was awful but has since bounced back to be pretty good but not great. He’s also pitched better against lefties this year even though he’s a righty.
I like Parnell but not for this start.
Parnell’s been fine, he had the one bad outing (Where he did not allow an extra base hit during, it was just a series of singles, screams bad luck more then anything else).
Why does Perez need an extra day of rest? He only threw 76 pitches the other day.
ehh, Dog Days. Probably a little bit fatigued.
They want to give Perez an extra day to split the lefties.
With that in mind, I say Vargas.
Ok, gotcha, yeah I agree Vargas should be the choice.
Can’t rush the kid up just for a spot start. Gotta bring up Vargas…
I confess. I voted Niese. Simply because he seems to have a little momentum and confidence building in the minors. I would normally say to strike while the iron is hot, but Vargas seems to be the way to go after thinking it through.
That being said, I would like to get a little stability in the outfield already. Perhaps calling up F-Mart mid-month and telling him the job is his until he proves he is completely overmatched. I’m talking Nick Evans overmatched.
I voted Niese too but changed my mind and now think Vargas.
Evans has F-mart beat in every hitting category this year- it seems silly to expect Fernando to be better than him.
It does seem silly. I would argue that even though the numbers support Nick Evans is better this year than Fernando Martinez, is there a scout out there that would tell you Nick Evans is the better player? I just think we wouldn’t be losing much by putting F-Mart out there and letting the kid grow while batting 8th.
Batting 8th he is not going to see much to hit… Maybe it can actually make him regress…
But I know what you are saying, with all the hype you want to see what this kid can do…
Scouts will probably tell you F-mart has more potential, but I’m not sure why they’d say he’s a better player at this point.
He’d be overmatched this time next year,nevermind
this season.
Are any of these 3 choices already on the 40 man roster? Mets dot com suggests none of them are.
None of them are. But it doesnt matter, they can make moves to bring up about 4 guys if needed…
I would like to see Vargas get the game against the Marlins and then slide into a long relief role. Maine will likely be on a shorter leash when he comes off the DL, and Muniz hasnt been good as a long man.
Parnell should move up to AAA and work in trelief there so he can be an option for the Mets pen in a couple weeks.
Thanks, Nate. You’re my 40 man roster guy :-)
I’m guessing the ‘moves to bring up about 4 guys’ would involve putting J. Vargas, Wise, Alou and/or Nixon on the 60 day DL?
heh, i do obsess a bit…
and Pagan, El Duque, etc
His splits (from last year) with runners on base are bad, and even worse with RISP. ERA’s of 7.99 and 12.04, respectively.
If he’s gonna be called up, he should start, I think.
Anybody have Niese’s splits? How has he pitched against righties?
Never mind … I found this on the minor league blog … Toby Hyde:
Statistical evidence of the cutter’s impact is slight but perhaps using full-season data is not fair since Niese has integrated the pitch over the course of the year. In 2007, lefties hit .258/.324/.409/.732 (AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS) against him as compared with righties who hit .291/.333/.394/.727. Lefties’ OPS was five points better than that of righties. In 2008, Niese displays much more typical left/right splits. Righties have hit him harder .261/.324/.373/.698 than lefties .217/.292/.304/.597 for a .101 point difference in OPS in 2008. Versus his 2007 self, in 2008 Niese has performed a little better against righties (-.029 OPS points) but a lot better against lefties (-.135). With the cutter now a major weapon for Niese against righties, pay close attention to his left/right splits at triple-A.
Niese In AAA this season:
Versus LH – 3.1 IP, 3 H, 3 BB, 2 K, 0 R, 0 ER. .250 BA
Versus RH – 9.2 IP, 6 H, 1 BB, 7 K, 3 R, 3 ER, .182 BA
Thanks GDH. Small sample in AAA … but not too shabby against righties, huh? Maybe he could hold his own against the Marlins.
You can go to minorleaguebaseball.com for splits. the only problem is they only do it for the current level their at. There’s a few other sites too. Fangraphs may have splits as well.
Thanks for the tip, Gina.
I voted Niese because I’m dying to see this kid pitch, but now that I’m reminded of the Marlins being a righty-heavy lineup, it makes more sense to go with Vargas or Parnell.
A case can be made for either, and while Vargas might give us a better chance to win simply because of his experience, you could also argue that with the Marlins having never seen Parnell, he could offer something different for them to see and perhaps keep them off-balance and guessing a bit.
I’d like to see Parnell, personally.
The Marlins have reverse splits and are worse against lefthanded pitching.
Now that is a great point!
Excellent call Danny, I looked it up:
BA OBP SLG
FLA v LHP .231/.311/.388
FLA v RHP .261/.325/.454
Good job – who woulda thunk it?
In that case, by all means, let’s see Niese! I honestly feel that Niese is more major league ready anyway.
Whoever it may be, let’s hope for a good performance and a win!
Parnell’s era against lefties 3.60; righties 4.92.
Niese has given up 6 homerun’s all year and is a groundball pitcher- considering the Marlins do most damage through homeruns and Neise is a better overall picther I think between the two of them it should be him.
Or we could go the safe route with Vargas.
I’d say give Niese a shot as he’s pitching incredibly well in a hitters league at the moment. If the Marlins beat up Niese, so be it- it would be a good learning experience and he wouldn’t be the first prospect to get lit up in his first Major League start. I’ve seen Vargas before and was not all that impressed and Parnell has a little while to go before I’d consider him ready to face the big dogs.
Vargas has major league experience, plus he is a righty…we are in a pennant race here, people!
And he’s marginal at best. Niese offers something different. Not that Vargas is bad – far from it, but you want to try something different when what you’ve been doing isn’t working.
Hi Willie!
Is that supposed to be funny? It doesn’t even make sense. What does Willie Randolph have to do with starting a righty w/MLB experience over a lefty prospect???
Just the experience factor. He chose to start Brian Lawrence down the stretch last year in the middle of the collapse solely because he had MLB experience. Then, after Lawrence proved why nobody wanted him, he went to Humber, which at that point was too late.
Humber couldn’t even make it through 5 innings when he finally got his shot if memory serves me correctly. I don’t think either option is particularly attractive but you have no idea what you are going to get with Niese. He could do great or he could get lit up early and tax the bullpen whch is not good down the stretch in a pennant race.
While the Marlins are a very RH lineup, the only one of our pitchers to beat them last week was a LHP (Perez). With that in mind I say we start Niese just because it shows that the Marlins don’t get an automatic W when a lefty pitches. For the record the Marlins have a losing record against LHP (15-17). I know the common theory here is that Vargas is the more stable choice but I don’t think this team needs more of the same. I say start Niese, hope he catches lightning in a bottle and sparks the team. I would also call Vargas up but I would make him a long man in the bullpen.
That is an excellent point about the Marlins vs. LHP. You’re the 2nd person to mention that. I agree with you … give Niese a shot.
Why would Parnell get called up over Niese?
Also does anyone happen to know where i can find a scouting report for Parnell? For some reason I remember scouts being higher on him than Niese but I can’t remember for sure, I could be confusing him with another pitcher.
From BA in Dec 2007:
Strengths: A former prep shortstop, Parnell has velocity to spare. His fastball sat in the low 90s and regularly hit 95 mph late in games in August. His heater also has heavy sink and generates plenty of groundouts. His hard slider sits in the mid-80s at times and can be a strikeout pitch.
Weaknesses: The development of his changeup has been an issue since Parnell became a pro. He still needs to trust the pitch more, but he made significant progress with it in 2007, giving the Mets hope he can remain a starter. Too often Parnell works away from contact while trying to strike every hitter out.
The Future: Parnell still needs polish, but he has improved his profile from middle reliever to middle-of-the-rotation starter. He’ll return to Double-A to begin 2008.
They were probably higher on him because he throws harder.
From March 2008:
The Mets 7th pick in the 2005 draft Robert Parnell was invited to spring training this year. Parnell started his career in Brooklyn with 2 wins and 3 losses but a 1.73 era, 67 strikeouts in 15 games, 14 starts. The 6 foot 3, righty pitcher went 5-10 with a 4.04 era with 54 strikeouts in 18 starts for A Hagerstown in 2006. He also started 3 games for A St. Lucie; 0-1, 9.26 era.
Parnell started the 2007 in St Lucie going 3-3 with a 3.25 era, 62 strikeouts in just 12 starts (55.1 innings) making him a FSL Mid-Season All-Star. After being called up to AA Binghamton, the 23 year old struggled with a 5-5 record and era of 4.19 in 17 starts.
The scariest stat for Parnell in AA was the difference between bases empty, runners on base, and runners in scoring position. Bases Empty he had an era of 1.09, runners on 7.99 era, runners in scoring position 12.04 era.
There is almost no chance he makes the team but will most likely start the year in AAA and could come up when someone gets hurt. Keep an eye on the development of his changeup; it has been a problem since he became a pro.
Clearly Omar needs to call him up as a situational reliever!!!
(Sarcasm)
Thank you, metinDC23 and krumblekookie.
You’re quite welcome.
the marlins are a right hand dominant team why would they send a lefty? neise is going to pitch on aug 11th against the pirates from what ive heard.
see roughly 10 comments up, FLA hitting stats v lefty pitchers are worse than v righties
Because stats say they’re worse against left handed pitchers?
I’d rather leave Niese down in AAA to continue working, developing and improving. He is going to be our 5th guy next year, so I want him to be as ready as possible.
To me that means letting him go thru AAA for the rest of the season, allowing him to further develop his skill against a equal skill level. Then after the triple A season ends bring him up for september call-ups and use him as a reliever/spot starter.
Let him get his taste at the back end. No sense rushing the kid when we are going to need him next year.
Why dont we just sign Roger Clemens,wheel him out
in one of the old Met-Cap golf carts Driven by Mr.Met
while we can have Gary Cohen,shouting then crying
“Oh God, of all the Dramatic moments in Met History,
Roger Clemens in Met Gangsta Black etc,etc”
No?
No.
But they could sign Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and Rafael Palmeiro to deals for the stretch run.
Now that would be dramatic. Stupid, but dramatic.
And then they could bring in Keith and Ron from the SNY broadcast team… and I heard Yogi Berra is looking to get back in the game as well…
I agree. Vargas has the most major league experience was actually pitching pretty well for us as a starter.
This is no time to be screwing aournd seeing what minor leaguers can do for us.
We can let Neise pitch AFTER we clinch first place. ; )
i think i am the only one that wants to see parnell. i mean honestly, in spring training, i prefered bobby parnell over niese, i think that he could be a great starter or a dominant set up man. the thing is i dont think the mets can afford to lose any more games in the standings the way the phillies are rolling, i say vargas, but the thing is that niese had pitched already apparently, but i think you should start him if you slot perez on friday after johan and then the pitcher on saturday. the reason this works is cuz
today- michael alan mike “my guy big pelf” pelfrey
wed- pedro “the guy with the awesome curls and will go 8-3
thurs- johan “i have to go eight innings for a win” santana
friday- (stop starter) or you slot perez in
saturday- ????? you cant put pelf cuz he is on three days rest.
Niese has never pitched more than 137 innings in a single season, a total he’s reached again this year. Is anyone worried that throwing him into a pennant race, having already racked up his career high IPs, might put too much pressure on his young arm?
Sadly, that’s probably a legit concern. But if he’s gonna be a major league pitcher, he’s gonna have to push it at some point. Let’s see what he’s got. Don’t throw him out on three days rest for 9 innings, but he has no history of injury… let him work it out.
The rule of thumb is you can stretch a young pitcher 20 or 30 additional innings per season. More than that and you risk injury.
I guess I’d rather see him throw 160 innings and call it a season. That would mean he ought to be able to log nearly 200 IPs next year.
Its likely a concern for Parnell as well. I would like to see the Mets extend him in a relief role and see if they can get more use out of him this year as well as help the dogged ben in Sept.
nah, not really
you guys should really look at the facts.
only 1 marlin has respectable #s against lefties despite the team makeup
Marlins vs RHP 261
hanley R 310
uggla R 296
willingham R 291
cantu R 277
hermida L 265
jacobs L 247
ross R 239
Marlins vs LHP 231
hanley R 236
uggla R 185
willingham R 259
cantu R 337
hermida L 235
jacobs L 242
ross R 257
Vargas has a 4.3 era @ AAA this season
Parnell has a 4.3 ERA @ AA this season (122 IP)
Niese has a 3.04 ERA @ AA and 2.1 in 2 starts @ AAA.
I can’t see how Parnell would be an option.
Vargas if you’re concerned about experience,
but Niese if u want to go w the hottest pitcher.
They can limit him to 80-90 pitches. Bring Niese up
for 1-2 starts while Maine on DL, then send him down.
If they’re concerned about innings, dont call him up in Sept.
Why use Varga’s AAA numbers when he has MLB numbers? Also, check out his game log. He struggled only when he was sent back down. I can understand that. He’s back going again now.
His MLB ERA was worse 4.60
I used the lower ERA
He pitched 37 innings for Mets & 43 inn in AAA
His best ERA is actually since he went back down,
but his ERA over his last 5 starts in AAA is 4.93
What happened to Knight? Was his start that awful where he couldn’t get another chance? Just wondering…
He’s in Beijing on the Olympic team.
Knight is on the US Olympic team in China.
The Mets let him go before they knew of Maine’s problem
That’s right, Thanks for reminding me. To bad because he settled down nicely after that 1st inning.
I vote for Jose Lima!!! Please take that as a joke..lol
As much as I like the future of Niese, I would much rather see Vargas take the start and stay on as the long man once up. He did a very good job when he was up last time. Look at his WHIP. It’s the best of all the starters besides Johan. That’s good for middle relief too. He could save a lot of innings off our pen if we would use him like Willie used Oliver.