In a recent report for SI.com, Jon Heyman takes a closer look at how Manny Ramirez ended up being traded to the Dodgers.
Regarding the Mets and GM Omar Minaya, Heyman writes:
“Sources say that the Mets didn’t want to risk bringing Ramirez and all his baggage into their clubhouse. But strangely, after the Mets had stood pat at the deadline, Minaya suggested on a conference call that the reason they couldn’t make a deal for Ramirez was that Boston had requested a big-league outfielder back. That claim must have come from Minaya’s very vivid imagination and appears to have been an attempt to cover for the Mets or possibly refrain from exposing their true feelings about a Ramirez trade. In reality the Red Sox had called the Mets and were told no, and that was the end of that.”
…Boston did want a big-league outfielder back, and got one in bay…also, why would the Mets have investigated a three-way deal to get manny, when, if such a deal was even possible for minaya, he likely would have wanted bay for himself…
…also, yes, i am willing to bet minaya is mostly keeping his current feeling about ramirez quiet, out of respect for the player and out of fear of the player’s union, which is probably the more prudent thing to do…
{ 45 comments }
The way its going right now, the team simply doesn’t have the hitting to make a stretch drive to the division crown. Why not let the kids play, and see if they can tread water. If not, then you can re-stock the lineup by getting a a guy like Manny, and be all set entering CitiField
If you’re gonna stack the lineup with kids with another 2 months to go in the season, then you should argue that Omar should have unloaded a number of players at the deadline. It’s only 3 games – not 13…there are 45(?) games left to play what makes you think that we can’t stay close and have a shot through to the very end? Why experiment with kids? Unless they’re all performing…you can’t man 3 spots (2B, LF, RF) with rookies when you have Schneider and the pitcher in your lineup. If the rooks don’t bust out, the 5-9 in the lineup is a joke…
Easley is a kid?
Easley belongs on the bench. He’s not a regular.
Look around. The 5-9 part of the line up is already a joke.
Then Omar should have either made a trade or unloaded the veterans. The fact that he didn’t should tell you that he feels that this bunch can win the division as they are. I’ll trust his opinion over anyone else’s on this blog – that is, unless Jerry Manuel posts comments…
See if they can tread water? We have a 138 million dollar pay roll, and a win now team. Why would we not make a move in a very mediocre NL east that is ripe for the taking, to make a run this year? Have we won 2 world series in the last few years that I missed? Why wouldn’t we go for it now? Get Manny or get Bay or get Nady and Marte, but get something! Some Mets fans drive me nuts with prospects. Yankees won 4 of 5 by getting guys that helped that year, and holding onto their established home grown guys (Reyes, Wright, Pelfrey in our case)… FMartinez has established very little outside of his exceptional tools, other than he is injury prone early in his career. It’s a disgrace that we suddenly elevated mid to good level prospects to untouchable. NOW we don’t have enough hitting or a bullpen. Now we will struggle to make the playoffs, and if we do, have few horses when we get there. So tired of the attitude of lets make sure we are a decent team in 4 years, when the team has won 2 world series in 46 years. The team has a chance to be a championship contender this year! Goodness, that Kazmir trade really has hurt this fan base in so many more ways than just losing that player.
oh please and you know how many people clamored for Steve Phillips to deal Jose Reyes and David Wright in 2002 and 2003 before he was canned?
And how many people wanted Pelfrey dealt at the 2006 deadline, the 2007 deadline and this offseason?
Minaya could have tried to cement his job trading what little was left and winning the NL east or he could have done the right thing and said this team, with this talent should win the east anyhow.
At least he did not screw his potential successor
How are you comparing 2002 to 2008? That team was doomed from the get-go with Mo Vaughn, Jeromy Burnitz, Roger Cedeno, and Roberto Alomar on the roster. Not to mention the 0-65 Rey Ordonez at SS. That team was going nowhere, that was clear as day. Same can be said for 2003 – a transition year where you had 3 rookies in the infield, although there were a few moves made to improve the team with uncle Cliff and Glavine. And no one in 2003 ever tried to trade Jose Reyes – everyone wanted him to take over – which he did as soon as he was ready.
Don’t kid yourself – they were different times. That said, I DO NOT disagree with holding on to FMart and Niese.
Restock the lineup by signing a type A free agent and thus delpeting the farm system even further…
depends where the type A comes from, if a team ahead of you dont lose the pick, below you do.
That’s not accurate at all. The first 15 picks in the draft are protected, 16-32 are not. So if the Mets are picking 18, they lose that pick regardless of where the other team is picking. If the Mets are drafting 14 (which they probably won’t be) then they get to hold on to the first round pick, but lose the second round #14 pick.
And signing a type A free agent doesn’t deplete the farm system. You just lose your first round pick. You still have the 64 other rounds where you can pick up players…
…and also because manny will be a FA in the offseason?
So.. FA = 1st round draft picks a la Tom Glavine for us this year
I’m not sure what to make of this. I may have to let this simmer for a little bit.
I’m pretty sure he’s referring to the 3 team deal. They needed a third team to take manny. So it would seem the Mets were asked to take the place of the Dodgers and give a few prospects to the Bucs
That makes sense and probably the team requesting an OF was Pitts
Omar realizes that mlb will push the Cubbies all the way to the world series. We all know its the year of the Cubs.
Just like 2003! Thanks Steve!
I guess we should cancel the rest of the season then huh?
Not saying that at all. I will be rooting as hard as ever that the kids can contribute and we get our version of Cabrera from ‘03 in FMart. And, to address the other post, Wright was untouchable for the proper reasons. He had a body of work and was considered a special type player/person early in his development. I also went on WFAN in 2003 and vowed to not watch the Mets if they traded Jose Reyes, and I was serious. There are a few key differences here. The 2003 team was a hanger on team, that was clearly not talented enough to make a run even if it got to the playoffs. This team has arguably the best rotation in the NL (with a healthy Maine) and bona fide stars at three positions. 2003 saw the Braves running away with the division (again). This year, the division title is there for the taking, as is the wild card. I have just seen too many Alex Escobars, Jay Paytons, and Alex Ochoas for my liking. I am tired of next year. Not saying I want to be the Marlins (who do the best job in baseball at somehow restocking, next to maybe the twins, but that is a seperate post), just saying this team for the last two and half years has been good enough to win the division, and I want to win it this year. Jason Bay sure would have helped.
The truth is, the Kazmir trade has made Mets fans completely gun shy.
Omar also realizes that Bud Selig was in Dallas the day JFK was killed.
Not to mention that the Bay of Pigs was Omar’s doing.
A)This story is 2 days old. B) Not surprising given
Omars track record of saying something diff AFTER
the deals are made-See nady/Marte And/But C)—
Prime example of why NO MATTER HOW WE FINISH this season,Hes still our GM—Because hes
clearly covering for Sonny Wilpon who wanted no part of Manny even if he didnt have to pay his salary.
Bucs dont need another OF prospect since their best one is better than FMART and about MLB ready.
They took laroche who was/is a fading prospect and
morris who is more suspect then prospect YET We
Couldn’t match that?? C’mon!-Nonsense.Ownership wanted no part of Manny who
they felt might ruin “chemistry’ and we know how important that is.Right?-They’ve already got what
they wanted from this group.We’ve been in the thick
of things the last3 seasons and with the new park
opening no worries selling tix, Typical. This is why
omars safe. They think hes done a good job.
The Mets are Relevent again so a Championship
is gravy.
I guess the fans idea of relevent and the Wilpons idea are different. 1 divison title in 3 years in a horrible division is not my idea of relevent , nor is it yours i feel.
Absolutely true IMHO. Seems to me the Wilpons are always more concerned with being “relevant” than actually taking the steps to win that year.
Exactly the prob w/this team now for years.
I’ve hated the yankees and more their owner
for years for all the harm I felt hes done to baseball
the 35yrs I’ve been following closely BUT over the
past few yrs I must admit and give credit. All he cares is winning. Everything else is a distant 2nd.
Look how many “bad eggs” have worn those pinstripes the last 10-15 years and yankee pride
has grown to mean one thing,WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS!-Our ownership on the other hand seems more interested in making sure that
if the Yanks get 6or7 stories in the sports section
we atleast get 3or4.Also,seem more concerned
about doing things”The Right Way” as opposed
to doing whatever has to be done to WIN.
I too took pride in this as a Met-diehard for yrs
But enough.The Best,most clutch &Dangerous—
line-up changing Righty OF bat becomes available
and due to circumstances and we’re not even serious players?Okay!,Well Aurilla a solid citizen.
Ain;t he?-Plus, he does hit right handed! Unreal!
Why not start the day with a conspiracy theory!!! HAHAHA,, I knew that would get people all riled up..
unless maine comes back healthy, billy wagna comes back healthy, ryan church comes back healthy, the bullpen doesnt blow games, carlos beltran continues his three game streak of hitting, unless david wright can snap out of a long slump, unless the mets can get johan santana a win, this team will not make the playoffs. i for one would like to see the mets making the deal for manny, but people are saying that the dodgers gave up nothing. andy laroche, though a 39th round pick, was rated 20th by baseball america’s midseason top 100 prospects, 9 spots of fernando martinez. anyway, do you really fmart will really be as advertised, or just another guy. some people say great, and others, not so much, so i really dont know.
what are the possibilites of this lineup
jose reyes SS
dan murphy 2b
david wright 3b
Ike davis 1b
Reese havens C
fernando martinez LF
Carlos Beltran CF
Ryan church RF
Johan santana
john maine
mike pelfrey
ollie perez, if not, brad holt
jonathon niese
eddie kunz
nathan vineyard
bobby parnell
joe smith
aaron heilman
scott moviel
in a perfect world, huh?
I think you forgot: Nick Evans (PH) and Argenis Reyes (Util)…
Seriously, it’s one thing to have faith in the prospects and another to basically pencil every decent minor leaguer we have into the big league lineup. I can’t see all of those guys making it, let alone being so good that they could relegate Beltran to batting 7th and Church 8th. But obviously I hope you’re right.
By the way, Havens is still playing SS and while there’s talk of possible moving him to 2B, I haven’t heard anyone seriously talking about him as a catcher recently. I think that was just pre-draft speculation.
gZauCDhCHMM6
Heyman is an idiot.
SIGN BARRY RAMIREZ
heyman is an idiot and really has become the joan rivers of baseball reporting.
if minaya had a shot at manny and didn’t make the move, then he failed his job.
adding manny makes the entire lineup better. so if the bullpen gives up 3 runs in the 9th, it won’t matter b/c the mets would be up by 5 runs.
he didnt fail in his job if he presented the idea to ownership
and was told, No go!–Actually then he did his job.
Please note: This is from a very harsh critic of Omar.
and the dodgers didn’t give up a ml ready outfielder, pittsburgh did, and the dodgers still ended up with manny WITH his salary paid for.
You could argue further, considering what the Pirates got for Marte and Nady, that we could have dealt directly with them and gotten Bay, especially considering the deal might have been able to be done without FMart in it, as the Pirates are stocked in the OF, and took a 3b back. Would you not do Murphy, Evans and Niese or Parnell for Bay? .RH bat, .280 avg, 30+ HR’s, 100+ RBI’s, 100 runs and under contract to 2010, at age 30 in sept? I would. So we will see what we have. All this said, I better see FMart up here by mid month, starting in LF. Fast track, lets see it. Think the organization has expressed enough confidence in him, shown him how valuable he is, that if he struggles when promoted, it shouldn’t hurt his development at all. Plus the kid seems to have one thing in abundance, and that is confidence that he belongs.
And with that I will stop my b*tching and move on, as the Mets have a Pods team to sweep this week.
Listen my fellow Met fanatic and read carefully,
If by some odd chance you do see Fmart up here
ANYTIME this year you will see an overmatched
batter and still learning OFer.I’ve watched the kid for
2 yrs now and hes not even close.
I gotcha, and I trust you’re opinion, as I have seen very little of him. That makes their unwillingness to part with him even more unfortunate, to me, because they protected him to the point that he was unavailable in any deal that would make the 08 club better, a club that in my opinion is close to competing for a title this year.
As an aside, out of curiosity and since you have seen a lot of him, how far away is he at the plate from being ready? OF doesn’t concern me as much, as he seems to be (from what I have read, he little I have seen) a pretty pure athlete with good speed, that can cover a lot of mistakes out there… Just a guesstimate…
First I’m Sorry! But this Manny thing has got me crazy! I got into my truck leaving work night of the
deadline and as soon as I put on the radio heard
“Manny gets traded but not to the Marlins” I was
like oh yeah! Until I heard the actual story.
Seriously,following this team and sport fanaticly
since”73 Manny is the best and most clutch Righty
hitter I’ve ever seen. Still cant get over it.
RE: FMart(and boy do i hate that)-He really is just
a kid.you can see a physical change sometimes
from month to month. He’s got a real quick bat BUT
again,against higher-level prospects and MLBrehab
guys hes overmatched. Not just w/breaking stuff BUT fastballs as well. Looks like his Prob and its
likely due to youth is often hes clueless at the plate.
No Plan.He looks O.K. but not great in the OF &
atbest O.K.running the bases w/ave to maybe
above ave. speed BUT the kid really Needs atleast
a full uninterupted season @ AA then maybe a few
months @AAA before they should even consider
bringing him up. He does however have a sweet
swing and VERY quick bat. But fo instance hes
not Greg Jefferies who @19/20 y/o could hit anyone,
anywhere.
I would consider that deal, but why would the Bucs, they got Andy Laroche who is ml ready and a better prospect than everyone you just named. They went quantity over quality in the Nady deal, this deal they got quality over quantity.
the reason LA didnt have to give the Bucs a ready OFer
is two-fold,#1)they dont know what theyre doing and #2)
their best prospect(by far) is 21 @AAA and ready to go.
No doubt Omars loved Manny for yrs BU lets face it the
wilpons put the kabash on this thing from the get-go.
Again, though I hear Aurillas a solid citizen.Plus hes a long
time Major leaguer,he can learn to play the OF on the fly.
Right?Thats work out well for us over the yrs w/Juan Samuel,Hojo,Keith Miller,Hundley etc.,etc..
My point exactly. That’s why I feel if Omar had gotten creative, FMart could have been left out of a potential deal for Bay, especially considering the ineptitude displayed by the Bucs front office.
Ah well… they will go with what they have, because they have no choice.
Starting pitching has to carry the day… this lineup as constructed, I feel, is going to be very hot and cold.
And thank you for bringing up Mr. Samuel, as I just threw up in my mouth, just a little bit. ;-)
Yeah,they just gave Samuel a plaque on the
phillies walk of fame in Ashburton alley @ Little
league field errr Citizens bank park. More unbelivable though was Omar hiring him to Manage
the AA Mets last a couple yrs ago.
Re: Him being creative,haven’t seen that yet during
his tour here unless ofcourse you count his creative
spending on the likes of Franco,Mota,Alou,Duque,
castillo etc,.
Comments on this entry are closed.