The Mets (68–57) lost to the Pirates (56–69) by the score of 5 to 2 in Pittsburgh today.
For a recap, boxscore, stats, etc., from today’s game, go to SNY.tv.
John Maine was lucky to be pitching against the Bucs this afternoon because he looked flat, hitting 90 mph on his fastball just twice in 96 pitches. However, Maine hurled five shutout innings, only allowing two hits, one of which was a pitchout that Jack Wilson hit for a single.
Jerry Manuel didn’t last very long after getting ejected in the third inning for arguing a call. Basically, Argenis Reyes slightly rounded first base after an errant throw from Jack Wilson, then was tagged out by Ryan Doumit. Always run into foul territory, kids.
The Mets scratched out a run in the first and fourth to go up 2-0. Brian Stokes then relieved Maine in the sixth and gave up a two-run, game-tying homer to Adam LaRoche.
With two out and none on in the eighth, Daniel Murphy pinch-hit for Nick Evans, and lined a base hit to center. David Wright, and Carlos Beltran then walked to load the bases, but Carlos Delgado popped up to end the inning.
Conversely, Duaner Sanchez loaded the bases in the bottom of the frame, but the Pirates capitalized and scored three runs to make it 5-2. Duaner failed to record an out.
Perhaps two sweeps in a row was asking too much, so I’ll take today’s loss with a grain of salt.
The Mets start a three game set against the Braves tomorrow at Shea Stadium at 7:10 pm. LHP Oliver Perez (9-7) faces off against LHP Jo-Jo Reyes (3-9).
{ 129 comments }
This is obviously against conventional baseball wisdom, but intentionally walking Andy LaRoche is a bit of a head scratcher to me (in the 9th). I know you want the force to try to draw the double play, but I would much rather had faced LaRoche in that situation. Would have been a very risky call, and like I said, unconventional, but I would rather take my chances with a .197 hitter who watches way too many pitches.
That wouldn’t be a bad strategy if you were confident in your offense to score runs. However, LaRoche’s run was really meaningless because if the Pirates got 1 run I think we all knew it was over. With the bases loaded it increases your chances of getting out of the inning with 0 runs scoring. If don’t walk the guy you probably will avoid a big inning if things go wrong like they did today but will probably give up at least one run. With the Mets offense the way it was today that one run would have been a death sentence.
Very good point. However, it’s still puzzling to me that this team, even dating back to 2006, scores early and sits back. Either the pitchers figure something out, or the hitters just rely on the pitching. There has to be some way to break this trend.
maybe its not a question of sitting back..rather they jump on the opposing pitcher before he is able to get comfortable….Of course this game doesn’t support that theory
Yes with the bases loaded it does increase your chances for the double play and getting out of the inning BUT the problem is when you bring the infield in with the bases loaded you increase the chances that a ball gets through the infield.
There were some pretty head scratching moves made by Sandy Alomar today. Bad job outta manual getting tossed. I like the fire at times but that was the wrong time.
Agreed. There’s a reason Alomar doesn’t run the team.
Yes, I think that in desperate cases you play for the double play, especially since they loaded the bases for that scenario.
I hate playing the infield in. It really makes for big innings sometimes. (Yes, I know it works sometimes). Go for two there. If you only get one, at least it’s better than none.
At least he’s good at digging his brother’s balls out of the dirt (at 1b, of course…unless I’ve mixed them up….)
Thanx, Gary, for that gem from the first night of the series!
MAnuel is great he sticks up for his team and that what fired up this balll park but i can complain we r 1.5 out going home vs Atlants we should take 3 and Keep our LEad 6-1 on a road trip aintbad for this time of year
Sucks, but oh well. A very solid road trip. Just gotta keep on winning series.
Final pitching stats for the 4 game series
Mets starters 28 innings pitched 1 run allowed
Mets bullpen 7 innings pitched 9 runs allowed. It just keeps getting worse
Of course we should have scored more runs today but no offense can keep up with a bullpen this bad.
Duaner in 3 or 4 appearances now has loaded the bases without recording an out. It’s getting pretty concerning. Who knows if he’ll be on this team next season.
I think we need to see him in SP next year. Who knows how long the recovery might be for this injury/surgery. But if he doesn’t seem better in March, I think you give him his walking papers. What a shame.
That’s ST, not SP. I can’t type today.
Yeah I was going to say, Duaner as an SP? Nooooo.
The Pirates’ offense didn’t have much trouble.
I know a 6-1 trip is nothing to be upset about, but….
It’s disheartening to see the same ineptitude from the bullpen, and inability to get a big hit in key spots. I thought we’d get our first look at Ayala. He couldn’t be worse than what we already have. Show did his job, but Sanchez, in particular is just a train wreck.
I’d like to think that the Mets are playoff-bound, but I fail to see how they can go very deep in the post-season with this stable of arms. Looks like Johan, Ollie & Big Pelf will have to go the distance…
Either than or go with a 3-man rotation of those 3 with Pedro and Maine out of the pen…not knowing what htey can do out there.
It’s almost like they are competing to see who can be worse.
I’d almost go 4 starters and use Maine in long relief.
Pedro + Maine = complete game. Apparently neither can get past 5 anymore.
That actually sounds like a pretty decent idea. Thinking outside the box, saves the bullpen in the playoffs, or rather it spares us the bullpen in the playoffs. They both know what’s going to happen beforehand so they can prep for it mentally.
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea.
Pedro has gone 6+ in his last three starts so what exactly are you talking about?
That’s a hell of a sample size you have there. 5-13 starts for Pedro resulted in at least 6 full innings. That’s not an encouraging number.
The bottom line is in a tight situation I don’t know how willing Manuel will be to leave Pedro in to get out of his many jams. I’d rather have Maine in long relief. you don’t know what you will get out of Pedro, you do know what you will get out of Maine.
Let’s not forget that you’re then asking the guy who “only goes 5″ to still do so on three days’ rest.
I agree that 6 of 7 in almost any context looks good, especially given how poorly the Mets have played against the lesser teams in the NL, but this game was very win-able.
You can’t win ‘em all I suppose, but I like the idea of putting pressure on the teams trailing us. It helped that the Phils and Fish played some tough teams while we were stomping on the Nats and Bucs, but having an extra game or two in your back pocket never hurts.
good road trip very tough lose. this bullpen is an absolute disaster and its still august….unfortunately its not gonna get any better and im worried it will once again be our down fall.
Honestly, the one heartening thing is that Jerry sounds willing to try some unorthodox approaches (although letting Kunz collect dust was not a good start). Last September Willie kept running the same guys out there, not that he was to blame for their ineptitude.
Stokes works as a long-man or spot starter, but not as a one-inning.one-batter guy. I knew they’d get emanored to quickly and get burned.
There have been times this season when the BP was lights out. Maybe this thing goes in waves, and since we’ve ridden out this low pretty effectively, maybe just maybe it gets itself together before September and beyond.
I know. Grasping at straws.
We split 4 with the pirates this week.
Actually we were 3-2 in 5 games.
No. We went 3 and 2.
This bullpen is terrible. The Mets should have a 5 game lead by now
28 blown saves this season. Granted not all resulted in losses, but still. It really proves that a bullpen is a crapshoot though. You can have the same grouping of players be amazing one year, or one month, and then be awful the next.
I still can’t figure out how Dirty Sanchez cleared waivers.
What does that mean? Why wouldn’t he?
It was a joke. He has loaded the bases how many times in his last few starts without getting any outs? He’s worthless. Why would ANYONE want him? Why do we keep pitching him?
He isn’t worthless, but he isn’t right. Either he’s been pitching through pain recently, or he just hasn’t regain the arm strength.
He was pretty solid in the first few months.
I think he is hurt and he is refuse to yet anyone know since he already missed since the taxi accident until this year. I also think it is curious that since Peterson left there is more pitching injuries. Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t want Peterson here from the beginning. But it is worth mentioning.
Are there really more pitching injuries since he left? Besides, it’s later in the season with more wear and tear on arms. I wouldn’t read too much into it.
Sanchez is not necessarily hurt, that’s just speculation. What is a fact is that he has not pitched a full season since 2005, and is right at the number of innings he threw in ‘06 before getting hurt. There’s a very good chance he’s just out of gas, which makes the Ayala pickup even more important. He can’t be any worse than what we’ve seen out of our pen this year, and he’s had proven big league success. In my mind, it’s a great pick up for Minaya since there’s really no downside and plenty of upside.
I’ll take the 6-1 road trip as momentum going into two straight home series, one against the Braves and then against the Astros. I’d like a sweep of the Braves, but perhaps 2/3 is more like it. Same against the Astros.
The Phillies are home for the Nats and the Dodgers, so these will be important games for the Mets to win if they want to maintain or expand their lead over the Phills in the NL East.
I also look forward to roster expansion on September 1st so maybe some new faces in the pen can help.
Not to sound like a cynic, but when have new faces in the bullpen ever been used correctly. I actually like Muniz, and think he can be a good releiver. But anyone who isn’t in our top 5 gets the Heath Bell treatment.
Let’s hope the home cooking helps, seeing as the Mets are 0-9 in Atlanta and Houston this year.
Seeing as how that’s the case, the “homecooking” as you call it, certainly can not hurt.
Anyone think this bullpen can get outs in the postseason or a critical game down the stretch? Anyone? Anyone?
Roster expansion will hopefully help, and if Wagner comes back, he’ll help too. We can hope that Ayala will offer something, but outside of that, there isn’t much to be optimistic about.
I think the fact that this team built itself up to 1.5 games up, and without its main closer, and even blowing leads left and right, should be given credit.
What worries me even more than the pen is the lack of clutch hitting. Even though they went 6-1 on the trip, they were like 10-60 or something like that with RISP. That has been a consistent problem all year long.
I think Wags may be out rest of Aug, and Manuel may throw Mains down there in the pen if Wags is done for the year.
Hopefully the Phils don’t find their hitting stroke anytime soon…
Here’s hoping the stat heads are right and there’s no such thing as clutch hitting. If that’s the case, we’re do for a big change in luck!
That’s due, not do. Sorry.
Didn’t Bill James change his mind about clutch hitting?
Did he? uh-oh.
I’m not a stathead. In fact, I don’t own anything about stats (sorry, couldn’t resist)…
Anyway, I guess some of them say there’s a way to prove a player is better in the clutch than another player. James used to say that you couldn’t rove it/there wasn’t data, but now says the idea of clutch hitting might be possible to prove. But whatever, I do know that Damion Easley was NOT clutch today.
What is the opposite of clutch anyway?
opposite of clutch? That’s easy.
It’s Alex Rodriguez
To be fair they always get the outs, Its just a matter of how many they let in before the final one is recorded.
Really? I thought we were still playing yesterday’s game.
LOL!
I’m gonna stick to putting my fingers in my ears and going ‘lalala’ because that’s the only way to avoid the inevitable.
Well, if they make the playoffs, I gotta think they will go with a 3 man rotation and put two starters in the pen. Who would you move though? Obviously not Santana and I don’t see Pedro being that effective in relief as he usually starts off slow. I guess it would have to come down to matchups and who is pitching well at the time.
At least I did not have to read a post-game from Cerrone. Ever since he affiliated himself with the Mets, his ability to be objective is long gone. Can’t blame the guy for trying to improve his situation, but this site has suffered big time.
Forget about Cerrone. THIS is where the real post-game analysis happens.
Honestly, I haven’t seen any changes at all. Cerrone was largely equivocal and noncommital before, and remains so now. If anything, we get more “opinions” these days.
Exactly. I have been reading this site for as long as I can remember and I have not noticed any changes at all. I love all the jealous cry babies who come on here to hate. Go get a job and do something with your lives and stop hating everyone else.
Word.
Agreed, but that’s the NY fan. Most are never satisfied, and never will be.
agreed. Matt has only changed things for the better. He gets more access which in turn gives us more access. I think people that think he has changed are fans that are flat out unreasonable. Matt always gives his opinion the same way and that is through a reasonable and logical explanation. The same can’t be said for alot of posters here.
iawtp
Speaking of which, why can’t the word mgmt be spelled out? Write it and it will not post.
firemets….
huh?
He’s Gary Busey. No one understands him.
He’s referring to a disgruntled mets fan who had that word in his username and who would constantly spam this site.
It’s funny, but about 6-7 months ago, I noticed that posts of mine with that specific word in it were also getting held up. It was really odd, and I doubt they’d put such a word on a black list. It’s some quirk in the spam filter I think.
It’s frustrating. I wrote a long post the other day with it and it vanished into the atmospheric ether.
I would have signed for 6-1 before that trip definitely. And if I did I would have thought that the 1 would have come against Maholm, since he is the most credible pitcher they faced on the whole trip.
They just need to take care of business at home now.
Yup…before the trip started, many posters said anything less than 5-2 is unacceptable, and 5-2 wouldn’t be so great either.
Sanchez’s arm only allows Manuel to pitch him once a week. Maybe we should just consider shutting him down for a couple of weeks. His arm is ragged right now.
Sanchez is useless right now, a 15 day DL stint for a “tired arm” is the only way Met fans can pray he becomes effective down the stretch
Agreed. Shut him down or send him to the minors if he still has options. They have to start realizing that some of these relievers such as Wagner and Sanchez have severe physical limitations.
Omar really has his work cut out for him next year. The bullpen needs to be heavily re-worked.
You know, we have 37 games left – 15 of which are against the Nationals and Braves. 20-17 puts us at 88 wins, which (I hope) gets us the division. Not that we should be happy with slightly over .500 ball…
This past week was a great start to the rest of the season.
37 games left? Wow. It doesn’t feel like the season has gone by that fast.
BTW, you must be an Arrested Development fan.
I absolutely am.
And, for you to pick up on the reference, you must be as well.
Can’t wait for the movie. It’s all but finalized that there will be one. I also would have enjoyed a Mrs. Featherbottom reference.
Who’d like a banger in the mouth???
“Say goodbye to THESE”
Maybe it was the other George Michael. You know, the singer/songwriter?
What a disgusting performance
I know JM wanted to give Jose a day off but using Robinson Cancel to pinch hit instead of JR just makes no sense. Granted, Cancel walked but still, why would you do that? Willing to give the game up? At that point Jose should have DEFINITELY PH for Argenis. I just don’t get Jerry sometimes.
Jerry was ejected, Sandy Alomar was the manager (although jerry probably still called the shots) and the pitcher’s spot was up next, I would have probably hit Jose for Argenis too, but what if he gets a single instead of a homerun? At that point I think Schneider was the only man left on the bench. Whoever the manager was was hoping for another baserunner to get Jose up there.
I think that was the thinking — they could have pitched around Jose and pitched to Schneider, who was the only man left. I still probably would’ve taken my chances with Jose for Argenis.
Thats what I was thinking. We were down 3 anyways. The idea would be to prolong the inning just enough to get J. Reyes up in the pitchers spot right before the big boys.
I actually prefer the somewhat unorthodox play of pinch hitting Reyes for Delgado in the 8th against the lefty. Bases loaded, two outs, thats the big spot where you use your best weapon off the bench, the NL hits leader. Delgado has a obp of .280 vs. lefties while Reyes is .370. Then you can move Easley to 1B. Instead weak pop up, inning over, drive home safely.
Hey, a 6-1 road trip is great and if you had told me before they headed out that they would go 6-1, I would have signed up for that in a heartbeat! With that said (oh oh, here comes the negative), Let’s not forget who we were playing. yes, of course we need to beat up on the bad teams, something we weren’t doing before, but there has to be something done about this bullpen. You cannot expect to make the playoffs without a REALIABLE bullpen. And even if for some miracle you do, you’re not getting far.
When you make the playoffs, anything can happen. I’d be happy with making it there and then taking my chances.
What worries me now is that maybe teams see our bullpen’s struggles and this could give confidence to the Phils, Marlins, Cubs, Brewers, that when we are leading and our bullpen comes in, the opposing hitters are feeling pretty good. They still are in it, no matter the score. That is kinda scary.
duaner needs to lose some weight. maybe that will help him record an out once in a while
There have always been questions regarding his work ethic. He needs to show a strong one now if he plans on getting his arm strength back.
the brewers are going to spank the mets bullpen.
I realize the Mets went 6-1 on this road trip and are in 1st place. That’s all peaches and cream and I’m happy, but you can’t help but be a little bothered by today’s loss in that it highlighted the Mets 2 biggest problems this season and last.
1) The bullpen is an absolute abortion (Wagner or no Wagner)
and
2) The Mets continue to struggle hitting with men in scoring position ESPECIALLY with the bases loaded.
The Mets apologists can commence with their whining, but those are two facts you can’t deny.
Agree. Like I said before, all teams have flaws, there are few ‘Perfect” teams out there. But a bad bullpen is about as big a flaw as you can possibly have second to a bad starting rotation.
Yeah, just ask Phillie fans about bad starting rotation.
Agree, that’s why I feel even with our bullpen problems, we’re still in better shape than the Phillies because we have one of the BEST starting five in all of baseball. It’s because of that we’re in first place.
Its ironic that they struggle so much with RISP, yet they have scored the 4th most runs in the NL.
I’m willing to see what Ayala can do…I liked his quotes. Saying how Minaya got him out of Mexico when he went to the Expos and stuff like that. Sounds like he has something he wants to prove, which is always a good sign. Also, he is a guy that is supposed to get righties and lefties out.
He can spell Sanchez at a minimum, since its pretty clear that Dirty is dragging knuckles on the ground right now….he ain’t right at all.
I also heard they started selling a cornballer than won’t burn your hands
that was meant for the arrested development post
Drastic times call for drastic measures. I’m one who wouldn’t mind seeing Maine go to the pen. He only seems to be able to pitch 5 innings anyway so he would seem like the ideal candidate to be moved to the pen. Now that brings the question of who would be that 5th starter?
Who do you guys think could be our 5th starter if Maine would be moved to the pen? Just curious.
4 man rotation
I think Sanchez must be sat down for the rest of the season. One thing to consider is that he didn’t pitch at all last year and he might be pushing himself to much. He clearly has no life in that fastball and isn’t going to be getting too many people on a changeup that only is 2-3 miles different that his fastball. Maine in my opinion is a bullpen kinda of guy he is effective for about 4-5 innings, he could go long relief for you. This leaves a hole in the starting rotation, but maybe bringing up someone for 5-6 starts wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Neise? or is he not yet ready for “Prime Time?” What other options do we have down in the minors?
I know this game was extremely winnable, but I’ll sign up for a 6-1 road trip.
Well, if Delgado keeps going on this downhill stretch (and over the last couple of years, he certainly has been streaky at best), it may paint a whole different picture about picking up that option!
I know he had an real nice stretch, but if he does follow it up with a long drought, it would be much easier to give him the 4mill and call it a day.
It is tempting to see what someone like Murphy could do if given the every day job and plenty of tutoring!
Evans + Murphy is also looking like a nice little option for LF for the time being.
It seems that almost every game the Mets lose these days is from the bullpen. I bet their pen has an abnormally high percentage of the Mets losses versus other teams. It’s atrocious and Omar needs to fix it this offseason.
And, yes, the Mets’ situational hitting leaves a lot to be desired, but they’ve scored the second most runs in the NL. So you can’t put the blame on the offense.
It’s the bullpen that’s been killing this team the most. Just like it did last year.
The lineup blew the game today…not the bullpen. By not scoring with runners on third and less than 2 outs when we konw our bullpen sux is losing the game
The point is, over the course of the season, there are going to be games where they don’t score a lot. Happens to EVERY team. But not every team has as crappy a bullpen as the Mets. And their offense is 2nd best in the NL.
The Mets bullpen is the biggest culprit for the Mets losses since last August. More than the offense. More than the starting pitching. And certainly more than Reyes who got unfairly blamed for last year’s collapse.
And Sanchez is no worse than Heilman, Joe Smith, or Shoenwies
And he’s no better than the rest. They all suck bad right now.
You know, Sanchez has cost us so much over the last 2 years. His foolhardy judgement and latenight antics cost us Xavier Nady. Then his injury left our pen vulnerable and without Nady our offense was vulnerable so Sanchez cost us at least the division last year. I’d see if he’s still injured and possibly cut him loose.
cutting him loose would be stupid, its only smart to cut loose a player that is worse than everyone else and hes no worse than any reliever on this team rite now
If they don’t think his velocity will return, then it’s no use offering him a contract for 2009.
That fact they put him on waivers says a lot. That there’s more than just his reduced velocity that they don’t like about him.
Should read: “The fact they put him on waivers …”
His “foolhardy judgment”, while costing us Nady, did net us Ollie, which you have to consider more than a fair tradeoff…
Foolhardy judgment? The guy took a cab late at night. That’s what you’re supposed to do. If he had been driving, or a friend had been driving, after a few drinks or even just a late night out, that might be foolhardy.
If you want to get on the guy for being out at 3 am, or whenever it was, okay. But ask yourself. If you were in a cab at 3 am, and got into an accident, would you blame yourself for being out at that hour, even though you made the safe choice?
Then again, didn’t Glavine lose two teeth in a cab? Maybe cabs just suck.
“Foolhardy judgment” was from an earlier post, hence the quotations. I specifically used the same term to call into question its validity. But in any case, that wasn’t the point anyway, though I agree with you 100%.
but Sanchez’s idiotic taxi cab accident got us Ollie
Is Maine alright? I heard his velocity was down.
A sour end to an otherwise brilliant road trip. However, going 6-1 in that span and taking first in the process, I’ll gladly take it.
Now kill those damn Braves tomorrow.
A few thoughts…
Like people have been saying, a 6-1 road trip is fantastastic, whether it’s against the cellar or whomever. Though the fact that there isn’t a single arm you can trust out of the pen and that offense magically disappears after the third-fourth inning has made this team extremely frustrating to watch this year. If this team happens to take the division it will be all the more impressive because of these flaws. I’d love (or cringe) to see the bases loaded BA and even RISP BA at the end of the year compared with the rest of the league.
I also like the idea of a Murphy/Evans 1B platoon next year. This allows us to go get a decent corner OF with some pop (much easier to find) for right. There’s that 2B and C problem too though, not to mention the BP…gonna be a long off season (not discounting the rest of this year obviously, but always think for the future stability of the franchise)
While he’s cooled off, I’d honestly say Fernando Tatis is this year’s Mets MVP. What would we’ve done without him?
speaking of Tatis, Church and Tatis’s stats are scary similar
The major advantage with Church is that he is an outstanding defensive outfielder. I would also guess that there is a greater probability of Church, if healthy (and that’s a major caveat), will continue his performance next year. Tatis’ history suggests that you should be incredibly happy over what he has given this team but don’t expect it again.
great road trip but tough loss on a very winnable game. off the subject but anyone see the braves get blanked by barry zito. i repeat, BARRY ZITO?! we absolutely need to light them up when they come into our house and tag on some games to our NL east lead! LETS GO METS!!!
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