Prior to the game on Sunday, Keith Hernandez will be revealing 
No. 17 on the wall of Shea Stadium during the Lincoln Mercury Countdown.
In case you missed it during Wednesday night’s game, Gary Cohen asked Hernandez how he beat out Dae Sung Koo for the great honor, in which Keith responded with silence – then jokes that it was a toss up between him and Josa Lima.
I always find it hilarious how upset Hernandez gets when someone else is wearing No. 17, especially pitchers.
According to my wife, Hernandez would eliminate 17 from the numerical system if it was possible.
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It is a gag between him and Charlie Samuels.
Charlie knows it gets Keith’s goat. The Mets have generally been cautious with the following numbers
8, 16, 17 and 18.
I stress generally, becuase 16 and 18 have obviously been given out.
17 has been given out far more liberally than 18 and definitely 16. I think Samuels really held out with Doc’s number.
More than Keith would pull 17 from circulation. It’s a total joke. Even a sorry franchise like the Astros moves swiftly and decisively to retire a number like they did with Biggio last week. The Mets should be absolutely ashamed…I’m glad the marketing dept is pushing Mets history this year, while operationally the team has spit on their history for 46 years and counting.
Biggio played his entire hall of fame career with the Astros. I think that this is a completely different situation than any player referred to above. Strawberry and Gooden both played for the Yankees later on and both Hernandez and Piazza played approximately half their career with the Mets.
I am not saying that 17 and 31 should not be retired and in fact, I think they should. However, I think the Biggio thing is completely different.
It’s unimportant, but Biggio was always my favorite non-Met player. He was a old school kinda player and the ultimate team guy.
and he went to my H.S. Kings park.
like how they’re aren’t incorporating any Met’s history in Citifield. Instead, lets celebrate a team that isn’t here anymore.
You didn’t hear? We are retiring Duke Snider’s number.
I agree that Biggio is as clear-cut as can be…my point was just that they made a decision and didn’t dick around. I guess with all the shea celebration cramming a retirement ceremony on for Piazza might be tough…but they better do it next year.
I don’t think 17, 18, or 16 should be retired. Maybe 31, but I’m not convinced of that, either.
The fact is, none of those guys were Mets long enough to warrant it.
Ahh, I did wonder why Murphy was given 28 instead of 8, his Binghamton number. I figured it was probably because of Gary Carter.
For a second their, I thought you were saying that Valentin was going to unveil Keith’s #17
My comment made more sense when the original post said ‘Stache to unveil #17′
Retire 17!
Exactly! He should be annoyed about it The fact that we haven’t retired his number is just sad… Same thing for Piazza…
We should retire Tony Tarasco’s number. That guy was a blaze.
As long as we retire 31, I can live with scrub pitchers wearing 17.
Nah, 17 is clearly the number most deserving of joining 41 on the outfield wall. The leaders of the two best teams in Met history with the only two rings.
Piazza was great and a better hitter than Keith, but Keith was infinitely more of a leader, as many 86 Mets have said again and again.
Sure, Piazza’s a HOFer and Keith isn’t, but largely because Keith smoked and drank and drugged and his career ended early. If Keith’s lifestyle hadn’t ended his career so early, he’d be in the HOF with Seaver.
Please.
Do I have to list the 2000 WS team roster? Don’t even try to compare Piazza’s numbers to Keith’s. I love Keith, but he’s not even in the same conversation.
Didn’t try to compare their numbers–check out the sentences that say “Piazza was great and a better hitter than Keith” and “Sure, Piazza’s a HOFer and Keith isn’t”…….but actually, other than HR, RBI, and SLG, Keith’s numbers everywhere else are a lot better than you think. He was the best defensive 1st baseman maybe ever, and was a leader for two championship teams.
He partied his way out of the game, but he was a great player in his prime, and more of a leader than Piazza could dream to be.
Actually, other than HR, RBI, and SLG, Keith, in about 450 more career AB, was better than Piazza in EVERY SINGLE offensive category.
Kingman I was with you on the later thread, but HUH???? Where did you come up with this?
Hernandez’s back went out after a 16 year career. How did he party his way out of the game? That’s a pretty silly statement if you ask me.
HR, RBI and SLG? That’s it? You mean all those run producing numbers?
Piazza’s average and OBP was close enough to Keith’s to make it a complete landslide.
I’ll take on the field production any day. When you’re surrounded by Strawberry, Gooden and others it’s easy to look like a brilliant leader. If you give Piazza another superstar and the Mets likely win multiple World Series in his tenure.
Piazza will always be a better player, and a better teammate because he could single handedly carry a ball club.
Dave 27–Keith was only an everyday player for 12 years….now I am not saying I was there or anything, but don’t you think that his being a smoker, drinker, coke-lover, and nonstop partier for years back then had something to do with his health giving out at basically age 35?
Did it have anything to do with Mattingly’s going out at the same age, or coutless others?
By most accounts Keith was a fairly casual coke user – he was not some raging crack head. nor was he an alcoholic…he liked a few cold ones after a game and clearly had a party streak, but given that no one ever suggested he ever came to the park unprepared to play – not even Herzog whose gripe was more Keith’s cerebral approach – then no, I don’t think it was a factor at all.
Nor do I think it was a factor for Gooden, but that’s a whole other argument. People like to conveniently forget the guy was throwing 250 innings at 19 and completely blew out his shoulder…maybe if he’sd done steroids like Clemens he’s still be pitching too.
Good points all (except maybe the Mattingly analogy—was he ever a smoker or a partier?)
Disagree about Gooden though, sure the coke abuse hurt his and Strawberry’s careers. Even as a kid, I remember wondering why one day Darryl would hit lasers and the next day he could barely manage to swing the bat enough to strike out. That’s being hungover and out of shape from excess partying, no doubt.
Who knows about Keith, but I think that drinking every day, smoking cigarettes, and coke use absolutely have to have some effect on guys who are playing sports at the highest level 7 days a week for 7–8 months out of the year.
Just my thoughts, but I certainly respect and appreciate your opinion.
being age 35 in 1991 is a lot different than being age 35 today. most players retired at or around that age including great ones.
Keith did not play over 95 games after age 33 and was out of baseball at 36. This was not common for great players at any time.
But I do agree that Beltran is a warrior.
Let us also not forget that blow is considered a performance-enhancing drug. Also, it was way more pure in ‘86, and less prone to inducing hangovers.
If we’re never going to retire any players numbers, can we please un-retire 37? It just adds extra sting to the insult to have a senile manager with a sub-.400 winning percentage honored while Hall of Famers and Championship leaders have to see the likes of Luis Lopez and Angel Pagan in their numbers.
Just for reference, there are more great Mets players with thier numbers hanging in the Bell Centre in Montreal than there are at Shea Stadium. Sounds about right.
And don’t forget, Keith was 37 with St.L., and just took 17 in 1983 because 37 was retired for senile Casey!
Anyone ever look at Stengel’s entire baseball career other than the run with the Yankees? VERY sad and pathetic.
So let’s re-retire 37 for Keith….since no one esle has worn it, it’s cleaner than a number tinged by Lopez, Koo, Lima, and even Tatis.
Look Stengel was a great manager…for the Yankees. I just think it’s funny that the team was so quick to retire it’s first number and establish some history, and has been the stingiest team in baseball since.
How have they been stingy?
Ummm, by not retiring virtually any players’ numbers in their history? Are you paying attention?
They’ve retired one player’s number. One. And even Hodges, had he not died suddenly and had it retired on the spot, they probably would have found a reason not to retire his either.
One player? ONE? So you have to be one of the 5 greatest RHP in history to get your number retired for this team?
As I have said below a guy who should get their number retired is a guy who is the face of the franchise (in a positive way) or an absolute baseball immortal. To me the Mets over their time have had 2 faces of the franchise (Seaver and Piazza) and 2 immortals (same two). If the Mets had been retiring numbers the way some of you want them retired then people would start complaining that they are retiring the numbers for the sake of a promotion to gets people in the seats and make more money.
In this sense I do not think they have been stingy. I just think they have not had the history of great players to actually retire.
dont forget kenvin appier wore 17 aswell
*kevin*
Hmm you say “senile Casey!” I guess you have no respect for the most improtant manager for a new team that for many years had no talent .
But more then any one he himself kept the spirits up for the fans to follow them in those years.
He was funny as he mocked the club, in the most nice way.
He kept us being fans until Gil took over, and made us a real baseball team.
Casey is possibly the single most undeserving member of the HOF. His playing career was so-so, and before the Yanks, he managed the Dodgers for 8 years, and in an 8-team league, never finished higher than 5th. After the Yanks, he managed the Mets to four straight last-place finishes.
A chimp could have probably won with some of those Yank teams Casey had.
And if we had a serious manager and not a clown in the early years, maybe we would not have been such a joke for years.
In my opinion, your retire numbers of players who came up with and performed for your franchise alone, not random guys just because they won a championship.
So Keith’s a “random guy”?? He was the on-and-off field leader for the very best team in Met history, and is one of the most beloved Mets of all time.
By your logic, the Cubs shouldn’t retire Sandberg’s number? The Cards Brock’s? The Phillies Carlton’s? The Mets Piazza’s?
I think you ought to look through every retired number in MLB and calculate how many of those players never played for anyone else. I guarantee it’s not even 5%
By your logic the Giants should unretire Willie Mays, the Braves should unretire Hank Aaron, and the Yankees should unretire Babe Ruth. Are you serious? Are Jerry koosman, Gary Carter, Keith Hernandez, and Mike Piazza really “random guys” in your estimation?
Thank you.
Should we retire Ed Kranepool’s number?
If you are being sarcastic then yes! Along with Ron Hodges, Craig Swan, and Jeff Innis. They only played for the Mets too, right?
If not, then no, I don’t think so at all. Kranepool stunk – just a sign of the times that a guy could play 15 years with one team in a bench role like that. If Kranepool came up in 1993 he’d have 7 teams on his baseball card.
I was being VERY sarcastic….
Good :)
I agree. I would caveat that and say he doesn’t have to play his entire career with the team, but more than 6 productive seasons would be nice. And homegrown makes a world of difference.
I can say this now…no other Met will wear 5 or 7 again…
100% agree and rightfully so. I hope both Wright and Reyes play their entire careers with the Mets.
On Wright and Reyes, I had to listen to Chris Carlin discuss the MVP candidates this morning. Of course, being the typical radio host, he goes to the numbers on his computer screen and spouts out Reyes’ HR, RBI’s and Batting Average and concludes that REyes is clearly not the MVP in the NL this year. He then says that Wright could be. These guys must really never watch live games.
A guy doesn’t deserve it because his team simply wins a championship.
Look at the Red Sox they have been around forever and have 5 numbers retired (outside of Jackie Robinson). The Red Sox have an actual policy for retiring numbers which makes a lot of sense. It eliminates any controversy. There policy is simple. 10 years with the team and a hall of fame induction.
Personally I think Piazza needs to get it more then Keith does. My main reason is Keith was a part of a great group of players. Mike was at times the only reason to go to games. He was a guy who put this team on his back and carried them for years.
Don’t get me wrong I get all nostalgic about ‘86 and I am only 26 years old. I just think Piazza deserves it more
Interesting then that no member of the Sox teams from 2004 and 2007 will get their number retired. Pedro and Manny weren’t there long enough and Papi is a long shot to the HOF because he didn’t start to become as fearsome a hitter until too late in his career.
I don’t agree with the Red Sox policy, but I applaud them for having one.
10 years in this era is far too many. So they won’t retire Pedro? Manny? That doesn’t seem right, at least not by “rule.”
I would say a team I think has it right is the Astros. Retired numbers are about who meant something to YOUR franchise. Doesn’t have to be about length of tenure or championships. anyone who remembers the 80s remembers that Jose Cruz Sr. was the face of the Astros for the whole decade. In baseball history, he’s not even a blip, but for the Astros? I definitely think he deserves it. Mike Scott, Nolan Ryan….these are all guys that represent an era of Astros baseball. Nice that they saw fit to retire some 86ers while we do not.
Your point on the Astros is my reason for Keith not getting his number retired. I can’t say who meant more to the Mets in ‘86 because it was such a good team with so many important players. When I think of late 90’s early 2000’s the only player that comes to mind is Piazza. He resurrected the team and carried the team.
Keith and Gary shared the “role” as team leader in ‘86. When I think of the Mets in the 80’s I don’t necessarily have a specific person. That championship was as much of a team effort as any championship is MLB history.
Hell, Bobby Jones MEANT something to the Mets franchise. Let’s retire his number too. If we can remember it.
Mookie Wilson means more to me as a Met than Keith, though Keith was certainly better. Jerry Koosman, too.
So Keith gets annoyed when the Mets give out #17??
Does Keith know how ANNOYING he gets when he starts drooling over the Cardinals??
when does he drool over the cards? i’ve never heard him…
Then you haven’t been listening….he does…
Are you serious? Have you heard him whenever the Mets play the Cards? It’s a love fest. St. Louis fans are the best because they never boo, they have the handsomest uniforms ever, etc..
who cares? inferiority complex much? do you expect him to completely disavow himself from a franchise because he played for yours too?
They stopped giving 8 out after Carter was elected to the HOF right? I have to imagine they’ll do the same with Piazza, unless he gets inducted as a Met then it would be almost criminal to not retire his number.
As for Wright and Reyes I think it will take a WS championship and both of them playing at least 10 years for the Mets to seriously consider retiring their numbers. I know Piazza might get his number officially or at least unofficially retired with having played less years with the team but he set records for his position. As good as David and Jose might turn out to be, they are not setting records for their respective positions.
Yes on Carter, but what’s the point? Either retire it or give it out. They did the same thing with 24. Are we introducing “Limbo Numbers” which are neither retired nor issued?
I like that they haven’t given out 24. He wasn’t a Met long enough to retire it, but if Mays played for you and wore #24, nobody gets that number. Limbo or not.
What about being the best player at your position for your team ever and playing with that team for 7 years plus…That’s why Wright and Reyes have a shot, and that’s why Piazza will almost certianly get his # retired. I am sentinmental for Keith, but he does not fit this standard.
I don’t think they have to win a WS to have their numbers retired. If they play 10 years with the Mets, between them they will split every offensive stat Mets record. Good enough to get your number retired.
Keith is crazy man
he is about as crazy as the guy from one flew over the cuckoos nest man
i mean c’mon man
Keith is almost as crazy as someone who responds to themselves twice on blogs…..j/k.
He’s not THAT crazy.
Keith won a MVP and was a key part of multiple great teams (on two different organizations). His number should be retired and players – especially Fernando Tatis – have no business wearing it.
Same with 31 and, very shortly, 45 (John Franco, not Pedro)
Keith’s MVP was with the Cards, having no bearing on his standing with the Mets.
yeah in 1979 and it was a co-mvp. nonetheless, he played a substantial portion for the mets and he deserves to have his number retired. at least we’re not the yankees who retire everyone who played 10 years for the club.
Franco was #31 for most of his time with the Mets, and almost his entire tenure as the closer. More reason for 31 to be retired, but I don’t agree that 45 should be retired.
OT – Just thought that I would throw an interesting observation. Is it just me, or does it seem like the Phils and Mets just flipped their seasons?
1) The Phils started out the season with a lights-out pitching staff while the Mets staff struggled.
2) The Mets had an all-star 1B that was lost at the plate (Delgado), and now the Phils do.
3) The Mets were under performing against teams that they should have dominated while not scoring any runs.
4) The Mets’ fans were booing the team and it was making national news. Now, the Phillies fan base is doing the same thing. (Although, I would say that it isn’t as bad as Shea)
5) Metsblog was calling for the team to dump star players and rebuild (Beltran, Delgado) and now Phillies fans are doing the same thing (Rollins, Howard).
This just tells me that this thing could end up being decided the last week of a season. After last year, that can’t be good for my blood pressure.
Retire #17 – #16 – #18 – #31
Phillies fans want to use the “rebuilding” excuse for why they’re not doing well. They can’t deal with any success. But they’re already in the WS, just ask Jimmy Rollins.
Can we retire all 5 numbers worn by Jeff McKinght??? Still a Mets record to this day.
I think you should start the “I Heart Jeff McNight Blog”
Retire 8, 31 twice (Franco was never really 45), and 17 for edgardo alfonzo. And also add butch huskeys name to the 42 already on the wall
Alfonzo was 13, and I don’t think he belongs at all.
Franco was 31 for 7 seasons and 45 for 7 seasons. I always thought it would be cool to double-retire 45 for Franco and his hero Tug McGraw….but now you’ve got a HOFer in 45 so it’s all messed up.
8 yes. A HOFer should have his number retired someplace, and since the pathetic Nats decided to ignore over 35 years in Montreal and unretire it, we should step up.
And where’s 36? Koosman was the most underrated pitcher of his era, bar none.
I heart Keith just as much as the next person and do agree that his trade changed the face of the organization and he was a integral part of the successful 80s team. Let me stress that last part…integral PART of the 80s teams. I think the problem with those successful teams was that there wasn’t a stand-out player. Rather everyone did their part. It was especially tough with Darryl and Doc. Darryl was a spoiled brat who ended up leaving for LA and didn’t match the success of his Mets years, got involved in drugs, jail and has now found God. Congrats, but that doesn’t make a retired number or lifelong “Met.” As for Doc, well do I need to even go there? As for Keith, he’s a Met favorite, he played tough but it would be a travesty to retire #17 and not #8, especially since they were great but a PART of the success. Let’s face it, Keith’s best years were with the Cards, not the Mets. I like how the Mets have honored dead players and Mets who had their best years with the Mets…Tom Seaver. I also think that 31 needs to be retired for Piazza. Not Franco. Puh-leeze!
Retire #17.
I think numbers should be retired for players who had legendary careers in that team’s uniform. I’m a Piazza fan, but I don’t think his time with the Mets was outstanding enough to get his number retired. Just because we love a guy doesn’t automatically qualify him for a retired number. I don’t know one Knicks fan that doesn’t love John Starks, but nobody’s saying they should retire #3.
John Starks wasn’t the best offensive shooting guard in the history of the game, and he was never the star of a team that made it to a championship. Piazza is much closer to Pat Ewing than John Starks.
just so everyone knows no one has worn number 31 since piazza left the mets i just wanted to throw that piece of info out there
Well, the people that wear 17 aren’t exactly super stars. It does seem like they’re keeping the option open but only giving it to aged players or temps.
I saw Jose Lima a couple of weeks ago, when I went to a Somerset Patriots game. There was a guy in the dugout for the visiting Camden River Sharks. Actually, he was never in the dugout, but was talking to players, fans and anyone within earshot. I figured that he was a coach, but it turns out that Lima is playing minor league ball for an unaffiliated team. And not playing very well, with a 5+ ERA. I will say that he was great with the fans, as well as his teammates, acting like an on-field coach.
It was also cool seeing managers Joe Ferguson and Sparky Lyle.
If we are going to look at any influential player, Koosman has as much right to be retired as Hernandez. And for that matter Staub may as well. And why not Agee.
If Piazza is determined to go into the hall as a Met, the Mets will retire his number. Other than that, you can’t be like the Yankees and retire every third number. Its ridiculous.
I like Keith Hernandez as much as the next guy and he was a very good player. And he was a Captain of the team. But that doesn’t merit retiring a number. He wasn’t a Hall of Famer.
The argument for Biggio is different because he is a Hall of Famer.
Piazza right now is the only one who merits consideration in my opinion. And I do think he will go in as a Met.
personally, I’d retire Koos’ number and possibly Gooden and Strawberry. Maybe Carter. But not Keith.
Keith was a great clubhouse leader and a very good player and all that jazz, but he only played 4 full seasons for the Mets. That’s just not enough time. Heck, Olerud played 3 full seasons and put up much better numbers and by all accounts was a great guy in the clubhouse, so should his number get retired?
Hernandez didn’t JUST play (exceptionally well) for the Mets, he’s also on his way to being one of the greatest baseball announcers of all time for the Mets.
If Keith continues to do a stellar job in the booth representing the Mets, that would be additional merit/cause to have his number retired.
Lima time!
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