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Adam Rubin of the Daily News is reporting that Orlando Hernandez has opted for surgery on his right big toe which could end his career.
The 38-year-old previously resisted the procedure because the recovery time would cost him a full season.
In 47 games (44 starts) as a Met, El Duque recorded 18 wins while striking out 240 batters in 264 innings pitched.
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Though this is about to be full of “good riddance” posts, I want to make sure there’s at least one sympathetic one. I wish he’d been a Met 10 years earlier, that weird leg kick is awesome, he was fun and funky like the best Mets are, which made him stand out all the more on the bland Yankees. He belonged in Queens the whole time. So it goes.
What he said!
maybe we can hike up those ticket prices some more and sign his brother next year to a 4 year deal like castillo has now. then he too can hit the DL 5 times, make 3 starts all year, and retire with the METS , and our, guaranteed ticket money.
some of these FA signings are turning out to be retirement bonus packages, a thanks for not playing for us offer.
Livan isn’t really injury-prone. In fact, he is quite durable. He is just completely washed up. So we wouldn’t even be fortunate enough to have him miss time on the DL. He’d always be around to stink it up for us. :)
On the bright side, though, he’d been another option as a pinch-hitter!
Right on!
Hey, it turned out to be a bust of a deal (re-signing Duque for 2 years after he was here for a couple of months after a trade), but he was good for us on those rare occasions he pitched. And, since he was on the DL so much, insurance should have paid for most of his salary, so it didn’t really hurt the Mets. Perhaps it hurt them in the sense that they were wary of going after other starters, because they weren’t sure if Duque would return and, so, they might not have room for another starter on the roster, but it didn’t appear to–and given his relatively modest salary, I would doubt it did.
And I agree, Geoff–Duque was wasted on that personality-less team known as the Yankees.
I have to disagree…no way that deal is a bust. even with him missing the playoffs in 06 and the end of last year, where would the Mets rotation have been those two years without him (especially in ‘06…Jose Lima?? ugghh).
Jorge Julio was horrendous, so it was a miracle they got anything close to El Duque for him.
Check my comment…I didn’t say the trade was a bust, I said the 2-year contract after 2006 was.
I agree the team would likely have been done a lot sooner in 2007 than they were, if not for Duque’s pitching for the time he did, but he could’ve done that with a 1-year contract (or 1-year plus an option), too. Granted, I never expected him to miss this entire season, but I’m not exactly shocked.
I’m sad to see El Duque go. He was a great Omar pickup that only cost Jorge Who?-lio. He was such a huge part of 2006, and he was so entertaining with his unique style.
He was also our best starter in 2007 before he got hurt. If he was healthy, a big if, 2006 and 2007 may have had different endings.
There is no doubt he COULD have been great. He just wasn’t because he was so old and got hurt all of the time. Hence, he does not get any praise for his career in a Mets uniform
Maybe you won’t praise him but I think most Met fans are smart enough and gracious enough to know that he settled the rotaion in 06 and pitched fine baseball for a good part of ‘07. He deserves praise,
Thanks, El Duque. You were entertaining, and much beloved. See you around.
Great career. Thanks for 07. See ya duke
And this is relevant news to the ‘08 Mets because?
B/c he’s on the roster and was supposed to be one of our starters.
lol
Since you are the only one blasting ElDuque do you think repeating the same ignorant comments will win over somebody? If we’re lucky your fingers will be injured and you’ll have to stop for several years.
good riddance to a player who was never there. awful acquisition for omar – cost us the postseason in 2006. i will not miss his absenteeism. the only good thing was getting rid of jorge julio
how was he an awful acquisition? he cost us nothing in jorge julio
how was he NOT an awful acquisition? 18 wins in 3 years? If you started Jorge Julio (and he is awful) he could get you that.
I do not get why everyone loves this hack. He did NOTHING for us. He won some games – great. But when it counted he was always injured. Maybe that was why he was traded for another awful player in Julio?
Wow, you are clueless.
Bye El Duque. You didn’t have a great career as a met, but we deffinately will miss you.
you are the only one who will
I’ll miss him, and I agree with Aflac, you are clueless.
you are clueless if you think he was a great Met. Face it – we got him at the sunset of his career when he was too hurt to ever contribute more than half a season
Aflac:
Deffinately?
Does that mean won’t? I’ve never seen that word.
Add me to the list of fans who will miss him.
Given the comments here, it seems pretty clear that you shouldn’t be speaking for all Mets fans, das2ble. Thanks in advance for your cooperation!
I never said that I was.
Your comment above, at 11:49:41, tells Aflac Sucks that he is the only one who will miss Duque. So speaking for everyone else was exactly what you were doing.
I disagree. When two people are having a conversation, and one of them tells the other one that “you are the only one who will miss him”, then that is exactly what it means. Not me. I won’t. If you do, then great for you.
Notice how I did not say, “Out of all Mets fans, you are the only one who will miss him.
Except you *weren’t* having a conversation with one other person. You posted a comment on the internet.
Care to try again?
Yeah, nice spin attempt there, das2ble, but we ain’t buying it. And by “we,” I do not mean you and me. If you honestly think that’s what “you are the only one” means in this (or any) context, you’ve got to stop using that phrase, since (in the immortal words of Inigo Montoya), “I don’t think it means what you think it means.”
“Inconceivable!” Heh-heh. One of the best comedies ever! Great reference!
I quit. Talk about jumping all over a guy for voicing his opinion.
I should have just written he sucks and be done with it.
I only speak for myself, but it seems other people here agree with me.
Go have fun creating murals and shrines for the guy!
El Duque was awesome. He almost had a sub-.200 BAA for righties. Take out his handful of blow-up starts and he was absolutely dominant most of the time. People who bitch about El Duque should eat some knives.
You are absolutely crazy. It does not matter what his BAA was because he was not around! 18 wins in 3 years? Are you serious? This guy is terrible. Maybe you love him so much because you liked him as a YANKEE. No doubt he was dominant there, but as a Met he was always hurt.
go away
Seconded.
yea, seriously. did el duque kill your dog or something?
yeah seriously are you married to him or something?
like I said, he had a good career WITH OTHER TEAMS, but as a Met? You are really telling me that:
a.) you did not know he was going to be out for this entire year in spring training?
b.) you think that he had an all-star career as a MET?
c.) he was really that important to the team?
d.) that they aren’t better without him?
Get over the love fest with your boy already. He DID NOTHING FOR US!
we would’ve lost the division by a lot more than 1 game last year if we didn’t have him. you really think jorge julio would’ve pitched as well as he did….well you’ve already proven you’re an idiot, so i guess thus just reinforces that fact.
that he’s injury prone does not make him a bad player.
he went 18-12 with a 3.88 ERA over a season and a half. That’s damn good. Nobody said he was an all-star, just that he pitched well for us when he was on the mound.
His injuries sucked, and came at bad times, but what can you do about that. There’s no way to justify hating him as much as you seemingly do, considering they got him for Jorge Julio.
Look, no one said that Jorge Julio is a savior or anything like that. I hated him too for all of the games he lost for the Mets.
But El Duque, as you said, was always injured! There is no more proof needed other than that.
As a YANKEE he was a good player, but just not as a MET. Why can’t you see that?
I have nothing against the guy – he is a baseball player and for many years he played the game well – until he came to the Mets. He had flashes here and there (like when he used the eephus pitch to strikeout a batter in a big situation) that made you think as a fan that he could help get the Mets to the World Series.
The plain fact is, he was just flirting with success. He never was able to put it all together because of his injuries. Couldn’t Omar see that? Or did Randolph campaign for him because he had seen him as a Yankee?
he WAS a good player as a Met, just one who got hurt. But he pitched 20+ games both seasons he was here. Heck, he has STILL pitched in more games since Opening Day 2006 for us than Pedro has. It’s not El Duque’s fault that Pedro ALSO kept getting hurt and we didn’t have anyone to take his place last September. But you can’t use his injury last September to say that getting him in the beginning of 2006 was a bad move, b/c it wasn’t.
When he was traded to the Mets, I was ecstatic. I thought he was going to be the same dominating pitcher that he was with other teams. He was, just he was for two half seasons.
I felt the same way about Pedro. And then he got hurt.
I felt the same way about Alou. And then he got hurt.
I felt the same way about Castillo. And then he got hurt.
It is not Pedro or El Duque’s fault – they cannot control their age. And I believe that they both gave the most that they could.
Just because a player WAS good before they got to the Mets does not make them worthy of praise. They have to earn it as a Met. El Duque tried his best to do that. But he is 42! I don’t think I could give as much as he did when I am 40. But then again I am not a professional baseball player. Or a general manager who believes that players past their prime are good for a team.
In short, El Duque was a good player, once upon a time. He was not a great player with the Mets, so good riddance. By trading for him, the Mets built their staff around the thought that he would be there when it mattered and he was not. When they found out he was injured, they still waited and waited, thereby delaying other options because he was on the payroll. Now that his career is over, the Mets can finally move on.
The Mets failure to have a contingency plan for Pedro and Duque injuries do not make either pitcher a bad acquisition for the Mets.
And, despite all your whining about Duque being good for other teams, and not the Mets, because he was always injured for the Mets…he was *always* injured for *every* team.
Since he came to the US in 1998, in 2006 (a season he split with Arizona and the Mets), he appeared in 29 games–tied for 2nd most in his 10-year career. In 2007, he appeared in 27 games (24 starts), the third most of his 10-year career. So, in the 3 seasons he spent at least part of the year with the Mets, two them were in the top 3 of most games he ever pitched in a season in his career.
In other words, he was actually *healthier* for the Mets than for his other teams.
thank you, Metsfan.
My pleasure. I just don’t get how anybody can claim that Duque was only injury-prone for the Mets. I think if you looked up the term “injury-prone,” Duque’s picture would be next to it!
The unfortunate part of Duque’s career with the Mets was *when* he got injured. And, given Duque’s postseason success, I doubt he was ducking the big games. It was just bad timing. Still, as much as it would’ve helped to have Duque in the 2006 postseason, or down the stretch in 2007, he helped the Mets get *to* the postseason in 2006, and be in contention in 2007. So to say he didn’t contribute to the Mets is just flat out wrong.
After looking over his stats on mlb.com, he only has three seasons where he hit 10 wins or more and really only 2 great seasons (1998-1999 with the Yankees). He has a total of 90 wins over his career. So, going with your point, it does not matter if he was hurt or not. He just is not that good of a player. I do not get how this helps your point as it just makes him look worse.
In either case, if you knew that he was “always injured”, why would you want to acquire him in the first place?
i know you don’t get it…that’s what makes your comments so laughably off-base.
It helps my point because you said that Duque was great for other teams, but sucked for the Mets, because he was always injured for them, and I proved you wrong by showing that he was probably healthier for the Mets than he was for any other team in his career.
Now, of course, you are trying to change the topic to whether or not he was worth trading for in 2006, which is completely different. And, I must say, it is quite telling that you only made the effort to look over the facts (i.e., his stats) after about a gazillion comments on here. Those types of baseless rants are typically left to people like “Jerome from the Bronx” on talk radio.
As for your new topic of discussion, though, I would say Duque was worth the gamble in 2006 (at least since they only traded that useless piece of garbage, Jorge Julio), but the team should have had a contingency plan, given his injury history. One could argue that, had Pedro not been suddenly injured, the Mets would have had that contingency plan in Maine but, despite the fact that Pedro had held up all these years, despite being an injury risk all that time, he *was* an injury risk, so nobody could have been shocked when Pedro went down either. So, Duque was worth the gamble–the Mets just should have done a better job picking up fallback options, which they didn’t.
Now, if we were to talk about the 2-year contract after 2006, when he had yet to return from inury….that was just a bad move.
Still, regardless of the wisdom (or lack thereof) of those moves, the times Duque pitched in 2006 directly contributed to the Mets making the playoffs, and those in 2007 directly contributed to them being in contention. You have yet to refute that, and will not be able to do so. But continue with your kicking and screaming. You are clearly desperate for attention and, shamefully, I have been one of many to humor you. I’d like to say I will stop doing so after this comment, but I cannot guarantee that. When I see something so clearly wrong, it is instinctive for me to correct it.
Oh great prophet – how could I ever doubt you? You know for a fact that if Duque was not there, they would not have made the playoffs in 2006 or been in contention in 2007? That is amazing. How can you rationalize something that never happened? How can you say what the Mets would or would have not done at that time? That is baseless.
Certainly he contributed – he was on the team. He pitched (as long as he could). He won some games. Great. But that does not make him some kind of fantastic star on the team.
How can you know what the team would have done without him there? It is impossible. They certainly have won a lot this year without him.
18 wins in a year and three quarters jerk. He wasn’t here in the beginning of ‘06 and he wasn’t around this year. Not bad.. Too bad you are so blinded for some unknown reason not to see it.
First of all – do not call me a jerk.
Great – a year and three quarters of play – it does not matter. He was signed for 3! I wish I got paid for 58.3% of my work.
I saw somewhere that he was 42. What?
exactly. this is why Omars decision to go with him at such a late stage of his career is foolish (kind of sounds familiar, doesnt it?)
FOR JORGE JULIO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who cares for Jorge Julio? 42 year old pitchers break down and it should be expected.
I have no hate for Hernandez, but no love, either. 18-12 is fine, but 6 games over .500 over three years, so what?
He was not a big part of this team and he was not a disaster (when he pitched) either.
All in all, you wish a fellow human well, but shed no tears. He was what he was — a decent, incredibly unreliable pitcher (health wise).
Mourning Hernandez is like mourning Bruce Berenyi.
Big whoop.
You are missing the main point here. Yes, he traded away Jorge Julio (thank goodess). But he killed the rotation in the process.
He killed the rotatrion HAHAHAHA! How genius. By making sure bums like Lima vanished?
Glavine and Maine and pray for rain
Lostmets–nobody directly responded to your question, so I figured I would.
Duque’s listed age is 38 but, as with many Latino players, it is believed that he is lying about his age. It has been reported that there is documentation to prove that he is actually 4 years older than claimed (or, 42). Some actually believe he is even older than that, but I don’t think anybody has ever claimed to have any proof that he is older than 42.
I was hoping that he could come back help the bullpen in post season because of his experience
I know what you mean. Duque was always so unpredictable that one couldn’t help but think that, just when you give up on him, he’d come back.
El Who-que?
agree!
This guy was our best pitcher in 2006 and most of 2007. Too bad he didn’t have the bunion surgery at the end of last year, he could be coming back about now to help the pen.
His career ended last year as far as I was concerned.
Shame his career had to end this way. He had a great career for a guy who came over here at 32. It’s a shame his seasons ended early the past two years. Thanks for giving us two good seasons.
This is pretty sad actually, but totally saw it coming. I could name a bunch of great El Duque starts from the last two years. He really has had a great career! Miss you, bugs bunny!
I’ll miss his postgame interviews the most.
LOL. I know what you mean. I’m not sure I ever understood one word that man said in his post-game interviews.
That being said, as much as he would have been better off using an interpreter, I always appreciated his effort to speak English. A lot of foreign-born players don’t make that same effort.
Good riddance
Finally! Someone else agrees that he is not a superstar.
He had a great start of 2007, but if he did not get hurt, maybe he could have won us some games in September last year!
Maybe if Pedro hadn’t gotten hurt he could have won us some more games.
Maybe if Delgado didn’t suck most of 07 he could have won us some more games.
Maybe if Wright didn’t have a slow start to the year he could have won us some more games.
Maybe if Reyes, and Maine, didn’t fall apart the second half of 07 they could have won us some more games.
Question: How many total wins did Hell Duque give us in September in his career as a Met?
that’s what I thought
how many did jose?
1 less than Maine did. Do you think he’s worthless too?
Of course not! Maine isn’t 42!
Then he should’ve gotten a lot more than 1 more win than the 42-year-old, don’t you think?
Maine is just starting his career. Duque’s is over.
So, again, he should have been able to get more than 1 more win than Duque last September, rightt? Especially since Duque pitched all of 6 2/3 innings that month.
Yeah das2-babbler, you thread-clogging nuisance, but if he had not won 9 games and pitched so well earlier in 2007, we may have been 5 or 6 games out the last week, instead of still in it!!
So, what you are saying is that losing by 1 game is different than losing by 5?
We lost. Period. If he was healthy enough to pitch, he could have helped us win!
I apologize for my post. You are FAR from being worthy of debating.
Thank you for apologizing. I am glad that you can see that you are wrong
No, I sure am not wrong, except to attempt debating you.
Have a nice life!
I thought you were not going to debate me? LOL
I’ve never seen someone make so many comments on one post, but why the grudge?
No one said he was a superstar, but through the middle of the summer in 2007, El Duque carried the pitching staff at a time when he wasn’t expected to.
If Pedro can spend the better part of a four year contract on the DL and get a standing ovation walking off the mound for a mediocre but not great performance like he did the other night, El Duque at least deserves a little respect.
And if you really think that missing the playoffs by 1 game is the same thing as missing the playoffs by many games, I wonder if you were ever a Mets fan before 2006. Sure, it was heartbreaking to watch the end of 2007, but at least there was some hope and excitement and a possibility that somehow they would make the playoffs. I would have killed for that possibility during most of the 90s and 2001-05.
So you think Pedro deserves the ovation then? I don’t.
I have been a Mets fan my entire life, so do not give me the whole 2006 spiel. I have watched and been to many games where the Mets have been out of it come September. I still cheered for them anyway.
Indeed, the hope and excitement about the possibility of getting into the playoffs was great last year, especially after what happened in ‘06. However, with El Duque out and not pitching at the end of the year (as he had the year before), our chances at getting into the playoffs dwindled. If he was healthy, I have no doubt the Mets would have been in. But that is just the thing – he was never healthy and always hurt. That is why I am not sad to see him leave.
Can you imagine if he had come back this year? Everyone would just be wondering how long he would last all over again. And then the whole process would start over yet again. You guys cannot seem to let him go when holding on to him means you have to delay other and better options.
Nobody is unwilling to let him go. Most of us just realize that he made a significant contribution to the Mets during his time here.
I can’t help but wonder if Duque once snubbed you for an autograph request, or the like. You are much too anti-Duque, ignoring all the facts being mentioned to you, for nothing to have happened.
How can pitching for a half season (twice) be a significant contribution?
Duque did nothing to me, so stop it. I have nothing against the guy as a man, but as a player he is not worth it. End of story.
There are other people on this site who disagree with you as well. They agree with me that he will not be missed.
He made a significant contributions because 1 win in April, May, June, July and August has the same value as 1 win in September. When you win a game in September, you don’t get credit for more than 1 win just because there is less of a season left.
Oh, and ask the Brewers how a pitcher can make a significant contribution in half a season.
As for your issues with Duque, they are clearly rooted in something other than disapproval of his performance. You are right that others disagree with me, but they are doing so rationally. They are not ignoring facts and commenting an insane amount of times. It is clearly *very* important to you that you convince a bunch of strangers to agree with you. One can’t help but wonder what the reason for that is. Of course, it may not have anything to do with Duque, but that was just the most obvious reason for your odd behavior.
He kept the eephus pitch alive and I’ll miss him. His career flamed out so brutally this year.
“The 38-year-old….”
Funniest line of this post.
Maybe that’s actually how long he played professional baseball? :)
I remember Orlando being the only consistent pitcher we had second half of last season. Yeah, he had injuries but when he pitched, you could usually count on him.
Thanks for all you did for us.
“You could always count on him” …. to get injured!
ROFL!
Read all your posts here. Dude, you have some serious anger issues towards El Duque – LOL.
das2ble, im sry, but all those years ago it wasnt el duque who killed ur dog. it was me, i lied. sry
Thank you for apologizing for not knowing how to spell – there is help out there! I suggest you look into it.
Shoot – meant ‘06
That’s just it – he never pitched. But I don’t blame him so much as I blame Omar for planning the rotation around him. Fortunately, other people have stepped up.
Off-topic:
What time do you think you need to get to Big Shea to be able to park? I’ll be driving in tonight with my family (too many people to take the train into Grand Central, then the subway, driving will actually cost us less). But every game I’ve gone to this year I took the train. Any help would be really appreciated.
I’d try to get there around 4pm.
Whether he is/was good as a Met isn’t as important as whether or not he had anything left in the tank. Two things about El Duque lead me to believe he doesn’t want to play (or wasn’t entirely happy with) the Mets: 1) As one person above called, his absenteeism in the 2006 playoffs 2) His lack of foresight or general disinterest in having the surgery at the beginning of the year/this past offseason in order to be able to come back and help now. Based on this I wouldn’t be totally surprised to see him sign with another team, as crazy as that sounds.
I don’t know how much of this factored into the decision but I’m pretty sure the front office advised him not to have surgery in the off season because it would have kept him out the whole season.
lulz
Well, first off, he re-signed with the Mets after the 2006 season, so I doubt his failure to pitch in the 2006 playoffs had anything to do with him not wanting to play for the Mets. If he hadn’t, he would have signed elsewhere.
Secondly, there is no reason to believe that he *chose* to not pitch in the 2006 postseason. He *couldn’t* pitch in the 2006 postseason, due to injury. Regardless of who he wanted to play for in 2007, it would only have helped him to pitch in the 2006 playoffs and, once again, have success–he would’ve been able to make more money than he did. The fact is, he was injury-prone, and he happened to get injured at the worst possible time for the Mets in 2006–and 2007, for that matter.
As for not having the surgery, like Gina said, that seemed to be what the team wanted, too. And, for that matter, earlier in the season–probably during a Spring Training game, actually–the Mets announcers said that Duque claimed the bunion surgery would actually cost him *3 years* and, thus, most likely, his career. I don’t know where he got that number from but, regardless, whether he loses 1 year or 3 years, the time off was likely to end his career, and it makes sense that he would try to see if he could rehab without surgery, and try to make it back at some point this year. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out.
I agree with those who say good riddance. Not because El Duque was a terrible pitcher or a bad person, but because he took up valuable roster space and dollars that should have gone elsewhere. It was stupid of Omar to sign someone so old and creaky to a 2-year deal.
I like the direction of the club now, finally utilizing younger players like Murphy, Evans, and Argenis. I want to see Carp, F-Mart and Niese in the mix soon too. If this is the result of Bernazard, well then he’s not as bad as I thought. He may have a better idea of how to build a club than Omar does.
As for El Duque being the Mets best pitcher in 2006? That’s nonsense. Glavine was better than him. I know many Mets fans hate Glavine, but he was better than El Duque in 2006.
Nice post
Hang in there. I see you’re getting pelted because you have an unpopular opinion. But I agree with most of what you said. Stick to your guns.
I’ve also been attacked at times here in the past because I criticized the Alou and El Duque signings, among other Omar AARP moves, but I still believe they hurt the club more than they helped.
Here’s my question.
Who was the other guy the Mets would have gotten if not for Duque? If “building” around him hurt the rotation so much, who would the Mets have gotten otherwise?
The Mets never built around El Duque. They traded a useless reliever for him, and expected him to be a 5th man / spot starter at best. Then he exceeded these expectations.
He then made 24 starts in ‘07, pitching very well in that time. Keep in mind that our 5th man to start that season was Pelfrey, who wasn’t really ready to be there. If rotation depth were an issue, Pelfrey would have been the first to go. As it was, Sosa filled in for him quite well for a stretch, and then we dealt with Brian Lawrence. Ew.
As to ‘08, we haven’t built around El Duque at all. The rotation’s been very good. If you want to frown on relying on Pedro, alright, but we’ve done a good job dealing with that.
Sure, it would have been nice to see El Duque pitch more, but I don’t see where we hurt ourselves building around him. Should we have picked up Zito, or Gil Meche for 11 million a year? (Although Meche is starting to look like a decent move, if not a great one.)
One more thing. Look at a list of free agent corner OFs, and tell me what we could have done instead of Alou.
EXACTLY.
We never “relied” on El Duque, we traded a spare part reliever for him and he pitched very well for a while. I don’t know what some people wanted from him or Omar? Did you want Omar to trade Jorge Julio for Brandon Webb? Or did you want him to hold onto Julio? El Duque was the best we could have possibly hoped for in that situation.
That’s revisionist history there. They did NOT sign El Duque to that 2-year contract to be a 5th starter. Stop it. Just stop it. No team signs a guy for 2 years at $7+ million per year to be a #5 starter. Perhaps only the Yankees do something like that.
If you read my posts again, it’s clear that my primary problem with Omar concerning El Duque was giving him a 2-year contract. That’s the main issue.
There were other ways to go after the 2006 season. One of them was to NOT trade Bannister for what ended up to be a useless pitcher. Now I know Bannister is struggling big time now but 1) The fact is he pitched well last year and could have helped the Mets 2) I believe he will eventually turn it around to become a good starter. Now if you show me a list of all the free agent starters or those traded the winter after the 2006 season I will tell you other ways Omar could have gone. Omar was the ONLY GM in all of baseball who would have given El Duque an insane 2-year contract after 2006. If you think there is another crazy GM out there like that, name him.
And, I disagree about Pelfrey. He WAS ready to be in the majors in 2007 and I argued this with other fans here before the season started. Struggles are part of the growing process at the major league level. Santana, Glavine, Smoltz, countless starters have struggled when they hit the big leagues. So if Pelfrey didn’t go through it last year, he would have gone through it this year. His previous struggles at the major league level were important to his maturation as a starter.
El Duque has been a big waste of money and roster space.
Also, keep in mind that they nickel and dimed Bradford after 2006, so don’t say the money they threw at El Duque was peanuts. They would have been much better off throwing that money at Bradford … but instead, they threw it at another waste — Schoeneweis.
And stop implying that I said they tried to “build” around El Duque. I never used that word. They just threw money and years at him that he didn’t deserve and he was a waste.
As for Alou, we could have signed a stopgap outfielder for 2007 (like I advocated on this forum) and then gone after Fukudome for 2008. Or signed another stopgap for 2008 and used Evans/Murphy/F-Mart for the latter part of the year like they are doing now. Alou was almost a total waste too.
Alou was also detrimental to the team because they always felt they were short-handed and were always waiting and waiting for him to get back, never getting their rhythm going. And you know what? Adam Rubin who I respect a lot said the same thing a few months ago.
Good riddance to both Alou and El Duque.
Look at the current market. 7m is NOTHING for a starting pitcher.
Carlos Silva is getting what, 10 a year? And he’s just about the worst pitcher in baseball.
What we got out of Duque in ‘07 was worth 7 million, given the market. It’s a goofy, goofy market, but that’s what it is.
‘08, on the other hand…
Anyway, you didn’t say anything about building around El Duque. That’s what das2ble has been saying over and over. I apologize for being too lazy to reply directly to him on that matter.
Last, who is this stopgap corner OF? The best one out there, as far as I can tell, was Reed Johnson.
And we did pick up a good stopgap. Fernando Tatis.
My mistake. Stopgap for ‘07, not ‘08.
Still, I’m going to need names before I can agree. As far as I remember, there was no one that was better than Alou/Endy
I agree with you about Alou, for what it’s worth. But as Dafatone said, $7 mil is not that much for a starter. They nickeled and dimed Bradford b/c he was a middle reliever, and they are a dime a dozen, there’s almost no rhyme or reason to which of them will be good one year but not the next (look no further than Heilman). The Schoenweiss signing was terrible, I’ll give you that, but that has nothing to do with El Duque.
And you say Pelfrey was ready, but his 3-8 5.57 ERA disagrees with you. He made 13 starts last year: imagine if they gave him El Duque’s 24 starts, and then had to use guys like Dave Williams to make up Pelfrey’s 13? They would have been competing with the Nationals for last place.
Silva is actually getting 12 million a year. As far as I can tell most low end 2 & /3/4 type starters are looking at 12-15 million per in the offseason. So I would say 7 million per isn’t that ridiculous for a #5 starter.
Also I’m not completely sure which year you’re talking about but Mike Cameron was available in 07, as was Eric Hinske, but Hinkse signed a minor league deal so I would figure at the time he wasn’t really in high demand.
We weren’t going to sign Mike Cameron to play a corner outfield spot. Absolutely no way, no how.
He might’ve been a decent fit on paper, but again, no. Not going to happen. Not a chance.
As far as I remember, there really weren’t many corner OFs available. Which is why I was okay with Alou. Plus, Alou was pretty good in ‘07.
Look, I gotta go and I will reply in detail later tonight. One thing I gotta say now though is that saying Bradford is a dime a dozen reliever is really dumb — along with saying trite and untrue things like the bullpen is a crapshoot.
There are a handful of middle relievers who are consistently good throughout their careers — and some who are consistently bad. Bradford has been consistently good. Mota and Show have been consistently bad. It takes a genius to nickel and dime the consistently good one and to throw money and years at the consistently bad ones the way Omar did. Terrible mistakes. And to anyone who thinks Show is good this year, how so? They can’t even use him reliably as a late inning guy or closer even though he’s being paid $3+ million this year. They really have to pick and choose their spots with him so as to minimize the damage he can do. Not what they had in mind when they gave him 3 years at $3+ million per year.
Get back to you all later.
Show’s been as good as anyone this year. No, I’m not sure what that means.
I was worried that Bradford would lose effectiveness after people had seen him a few times. Maybe that’s why he keeps switching teams / divisions / leagues despite consistently putting up good numbers.
The money that Show is getting isn’t a big deal. And if nothing else, he was our best reliever in September last year when the entire pen failed.
I know, that’s pretty scary.
The Mets didn’t “nickel and dime” Bradford. The Orioles, out of nowhere, threw a 3 -year, $10 million contract at Bradford–way more than *anyone* had ever considered giving a specialist out of the pen. When the Mets, wisely, decided not to go anywhere near that, they soon found out that the Orioles’ ridiculous contract for Bradford had set the new market for middle relievers and, unfortunately, they ended up having to spend that same kind of money to replace him anyway (with Schoeneweis). It was like when the Jays signed B.J. Ryan to that absurd contract–any chance of getting Wagner for less than the Mets did completely disappeared.
You say the Mets were smart not to sign Bradford, but then you act like a piece of trash for about the smae money was ok, because someone else raised the bar. Well, the Mets were dumb then because they could have had a lot mote talent for the same money and let someone else pay big bucks for the trash.
Oh, no way do I think the Schoeneweid contract wasn’t bad! If I made it sound like that…oops!
What I am saying is that the Mets got screwed by the fact that the Orioles screwed up the market for middle relievers. In hindsight, yes, I would have much preferred to have Bradford over Schoeneweis for essentially the same ridiculous contract. Sure, Show has been pretty good this year, but it’s still *way* too much money for a middle reliever, and I agree that Bradford would have been better.
I agree with you that the 2-year deal was dumb–I wouldn’t have expected him to miss this entire year, but multiple injuries over the two years was inevitable. And, as I noted in another comment on this thread, I too considered that he might have kept them from picking up another starter. Still, given his relatively moderate salary, I can’t imagine that he kept them from picking anybody else up. Of course, only those with knowledge of the Mets’ “inner workings” can know for sure, so it is a possibility.
das2ble, take a deep breath.
If someone said this already, then let me know, but why don’t the Mets move him immediately to the 60-day DL whether or not his career is over? It frees up a spot on the 40-man for someone a century younger . . .
They have a bunch a few guys they could move to the 60 day dl, who knows why they don’t.
I can’t say I noticed this. Who else have they not switched to the 60-day DL that they could have (and should have)? I’d ask you if you’ve seen or heard anything to suggest why they do this, but your comment indicates that you have not.
Pagan and Vargas, Matt Wise, who I’m starting to think is dead, Trot Nixon, and Burgos but I guess he might be able to make a comeback this year.
40 Man Roster Rules:
You are forced to put a player on the 40 Man Roster after his 3rd season as a pro (otherwise he is Rule 5 eligble – see Dan Uggla.)
After a player is on the 40 man roster in 3 seperate seasons, he is “out of options” and must clear waivers before being sent to the minors or being removed from the 40 man roster.
So adding a young player to the 40 Man Roster only makes since if you are going put him on the big league roster. Adding a young kid now just wastes one of his option years for no reason.
Good riddance to both Duque and Alou. Nothing personal, they’re great people off the field from what I understand but they simply didn’t contribute enough while here. You get sick of the whole “he’s hurt, he’s rehabbing, he had a setback, he’s rehabbing, he’s returning, he’s here, he’s hurt again” treadmill they’ve been on the past 2 years.
I thought Duque was just trying to establish his residency in Port St. Lucie so he can run for office there. :)
Hallelujah!
El Duque was the Met’s best pitcher coming down the stretch in 2006 ( scheduled to be the game #1 pitcher vs. Dodgers ) and again last year before his foot injury in 2007, always seemingly coming up with a big win when the team needed one. 18-12 with and ERA under 4.00 as a Met doesn’t make him a total waste.
I like him he was quite solid for a little bit and its not like we gave up babe ruth for him
El Duque is 42 years old. He was born in 1965. Wikipedia, baseballreference and espn all have him listed as such. With a quick search, Mets.com is the only site I found that lists him as born in 1969.