|
|
|
In a chat for ESPN.com, Baseball America’s Jim Callis writes that, as of now, Mets 17-year-old OF Wilmer Flores is the organization’s top prospect, ahead of Fernando Martinez.
In 66 combined games this season with Kingsport, Brooklyn and Savannah, Flores hit .315 with 8 HR and 42 RBI, whiles striking out 34 times in 273 at-bats.
In an injury-plagued season, playing only 86 games for Double-A Binghamton, Martinez hit .287 with 8 HR and 43 RBI, whiles striking out 73 times in 352 at-bats.
…it’s hard to comment on players you’ve never seen, but based on reports and production, the proclaimed ‘Teenage Hitting Machine’ has not lived up to his hyperbolic potential during his time in the Mets minor league system…granted he has unfortunately seen his share of injuries in the last couple years and may be a victim of his own hype…
For more on the Mets Minor League system, check out Toby Hyde’s excellent Mets Minor League Blog.
 |
 |
 |
RSS 2.0 Both comments and pings are currently closed.
a young damion easley
is this because of his rise in the organization, or is it because f-mart is under performing?
I would guess a little of both, probably more F-mart under performing since Flores hasn’t even played A ball yet.
Let’s trade F-Mart to the Nats in two years for a defensive catcher and a woozy RFer.
And please don’t get on me for dissing Church, I liked that trade when it was made, most did not.
hopefully he isnt a headcase rapper like that dreadlocked fool. hopefully his pwoer was overestimated by the front office. Or, if it is, hopefully they have the wherewithall to trade him while his stock is sky high.
Wasnt it rumored years ago that Milledge could have brought in zito, mulder or hudson before their tired arms broke down? hahaha.
How many of you piss ants complained and moaned about the star “Milledge” going to the Nats…Raise your hands you fair whether fans…How many wanted Minaya fired, come on you Bums where are you now!!!!
That changes nothing about me wanting Minaya fired.
I liked getting Church, not Schneider so much, when the deal happened. Overall, I probably wanted a little more from the trade, and since Church has been injured, it actually has favored the Nats so far.
It’s not that Minaya didn’t get a decent return; it’s that it could have been better
Yes, LM is 23 years old. He’s washed up, a never was, will amount to nothing, his career is done and he will end up sponsoring cock fights for Pedro.
Fair “whether”??? Huh?
He’s playing in short season A-ball this very moment. I just watched him strike out.
cue the price is right game loss tuba
Going to school in Binghamton, I’ve seen him play in person about 20 times. I’d be stunned if he turned out to be more than a left handed hitting version of Jose Guillen…270 BA 20-25 HR with lots of Ks. He’s really stiff and unathletic too. If he fills out and puts on 20 pounds or so, I’m not sure he’d still be able to play the outfield.
Listen…FMart has the skill to be great but hasnt shown it yet due to injury. He is only 19 folks…give him time. Now as for Flores…he seems to be the real deal. Slick fielder, with a great bat. He’ll be ready by Castillo year 3 and then take over at 20. Jose and David will be at the ripe old age of 28 and as crazy as this is going sound…just going into their primes. As good as both of those 2 have been so early in their careers they will be at their peak starting then…scary for the rest of the NL. Oh yeah I predict FMart is going to be an all star in 2010. You heard it here first.
I doubt Flores will still be playing middle infield when he’s 20. From what I understand about his body type he’s almost already outgrown ss and he’s like to fill out a lot more.
The post says he’s an OFer.
Well he’s a shortstop right now and he’ll probably be playing short next year but theres no way he does in the majors. He’ll be a 1st baseman or corner outfielder. Thats not a knock on his defensive ability- the kid will just be too big for the middle infield.
The post is wrong. He plays SS right now.
Flores is already 6′3″. And he’s still growing!
What?
So now Fernando Martinez is NOT going to be next Willie Mays?!
Damn!
Wilmer?
His agent has to come up with something
sexier than that. Maybe just Will. Wilmer
sounds like a character on Hee-Haw.
I’ve heard him refered to as Fez- don’t know where that came from though.
Its better than the boring old way of combining part of the first and last name to form a nick-name.
that 70’s show wimer “fez” walderama
oops wilmer
YA THAT IS WAT I THOT WILMER NOT WIMER FOo0L!
F-mart is a beast, a little stutter in the middle of the season and everyone is down on him, F-mart is still only 19 and has played his second season in AA, while most 19 year olds are lucky to be in A+ ball. Guys like Jim Callis Make these rankings just make them selves more popular, if u think F-mart is gonna be a flop ur insane. An all star in 2010, IDK, but rookie of the year in 2010 is the most likely.
I’m not down in wilmer, its just that F-mart is the real deal and deserves more respect
You can disagree with Callis if you want but don’t get personal about it. He could be wrong. Or maybe FMart projects to be an all-star and Flores projects to be a superstar.
Before you smear someone you likely don’t know, remember he analyzes minor leaguers professionally. That doesn’t mean he’s always right, but it probably means he knows more about this than you do.
Like I said, disagree if you want, but save your “Guys like Jim Callis Make these rankings just make them selves more popular” thoughts, because they are ill-informed and stupid.
Martinez may also be a victim of the front office being too aggressive. Maybe he’s just not ready for AA ball.
You can blame Tony Bernazard. He is behind all these fast promotions.
Yea Blame the Mets sees for early promotion, you know like that stiff Daniel Murphy, its a good thing he’ spent sooo much time in the minors!!! Yep, That Daniel Murphy sure is antsy and swings at alot of bad pitches….
Let the pros do what they do, you meanwhile go sit in cold water until you watch it disinagrate you fungus….
You are a complete GYTLESS moron!!!!
Murphy is 23. Wtf are you talking about.
That guy hasn’t posted one comment of substance yet; his entire schtick consists of belittling other people’s comments and calling people “weasels” and “gutless morons” (er, sorry, “gytless” morons) and other insightful names of that ilk.
I recommend not feeding the trolls.
Gina and NYP-BOS regardless of Parvis previous posts it is pretty clear that post was drenched in sarcasm.
Fernando is mostly the victim of being a Mets prospect.
Callis worships the ground that Austin Jackson walks on, yet he posted the same OPS that Fernando Martinez did in Double-A this year.
Oh, and Jackson is 18 months older.
And Callis rates him well ahead of Fernando.
callis is a shill
cerrone is a lackey schillrone to be exact
Gina, I think he was ready for AA. Just because he didn’t hit 30 HRs, doesn’t mean he still didn’t hit. His problem wasn’t that he was overmatched. The problem is he has an extraordinary amount of hype to live up to.
I don’t care that he hasn’t hit 30 homeruns. I care that he hasn’t posted an ops above .800.
The injuries make it harder for FMart to get into a grove, but its too early to fret. Frankly, his numbers for a 19 yr old in AA are fantastic, and better than many other top big leaguers who themselves were pushed thru the minors.
Flores’ numbers on the other hand are otherwordly. He has proven he has got talent, but as he ascends the ladder, he will need to prove he has the right mental approach, and ability to make adjustments, that many a ball player struggle with.
…learning to field a ground ball wouldnt hurt either.
The kid is an amazing hitter for his age and if that continues they will find a position for him. But much like Miguel Cabrera at that age Wilmer is a hitter playing SS who cant play SS.
yeah too bad he doesn’t have victorinos speed – i hate his guts but he can field
The injuries make F-Mart a little too similar to Alex Escobar. He could be the most talented player in the world, but if he is never healthy enough to show it, or if those injuries hinder his ability, does it really matter?
The fact is, F-Mart needs to find a way to stay healthy. Once he does that, hopefully we will be able to see what he can bring to the table.
oye…injuries are NOT what derailed Escobar
he got worse as he aged through the levels of the minors and his K’s became more glaring as the pitching became more consistent and less fastball oriented.
out of the other side of his mouth Callis comps FM to Bobby Abreu and Garret Anderson. While they arent 10 time all-stars they are solid starting OF’s that every team around the league could use. So I’m not sure if thats intended as a slight or a compliment to FM.
It’s not the other side of his mouth, fool. He merely said Flores was better, not that FMart was bad. Maybe that means we have two stellar prospects on the way.
…but you cant call Flores better than that when he is 17…
if FM is being compared to 10 year pro’s then he should be calling him #1 as well. Its contradictory, imo.
Hey gang,
Don’t mean to junk up the post, but I’ve got a problem.
I thought I had tickets for tomorrow’s game, and made convoluted plans to get down from far upstate. Turns out, my tickets are for Saturday, when I have to work back up here. Yeah, I’m kind of an idiot.
The point is, if anybody wants to go to Saturday’s game and has Friday tickets to trade me, drop me a line (clott1986 AT yahoo DOT com).
Thanks!
here how bout u give me the tix and we’ll call it even
he has a great arm so he could be a corner outfielder
i think this could be a good problem season him for 1 more year in aa then put him in left and murphy at first in 2010
i just bought my playoff tickets today- $750 – they computer wouldn’t tell me if i got my regular seats so when i called and got a customer service rep i asked her if they were the same seats or remotely near them she asked me what plan i ave and when i told her the partial sat she giggled and said “of course not” very bluntly – damn u gotta love our front office the way they treat us consumers
two yrs ago i got jipped and got game 5 in the first round which never was played
Last yr i jumped quickley and made sure i would go to a game so i got game 1 first round..and well i didnt get to go to that game either because of umm…umm well u kno
Toby Hyde posted a good article about F-mart from the Binghamton newspaper- this is part of it:
Martinez has played two seasons in Double-A, though with injuries it works out to about one full season. And since he came off the DL in June, he’s hit .291. He’s driven in 14 runs in August alone (though that’s as much a tribute to moving around the batting order than anything else). He’s struck out 32 times since the end of June. That’s the same number of strikeouts he had in April alone.
Martinez is getting better. His good stretches are lasting longer and are more dynamic. When he hits the ball well, he’s crushing the ball.
Keep this in mind: If Martinez takes three or four more years to fully develop, to make it to the big leagues, he’ll be 22 or 23 years old. The same age Evans and Murphy are now.”
I can’t stand when people talk about him as if he’s somehow failed because he did not light up AA.
exactly, I agree with you. utley and howard were 25 when they came up. give the kid time to develop
mets in 5 yrs…
Evans
murphey
Reyes
Wright
F mart
Flores
Pelfrey
Niese
Parnell
Nice young team
WRONG, YOU INCONSDIERATE FOOL!
Do you realize how unlikely it is that the Mets or any team would field 6 of the 8 starting players from their own system?
not to mention in 5 years Wright and Reyes will be 30, Murphy will be 28 and Pelfrey will be 28 as well, not old, but not exactly spring chickens either
Martinez hit .287 .340 .432 (772 ops) as a 19 year old in AA and he’s a bust? Do you realize most players in that league are 22 or 23? Those are impressive stats.
Mets should go after Manny next season
and a chicken BOCK BOCK I POOOPED MY PANTZ
Im sure your an expert and Dirty panties you know the ones you wear that are really tight and smell like they have not been washed in 2 years…Go stick your mouth around a tail pipe you putz>>>>()
Grow up.
It’s an idea. They’d have to give up draft picks to do this though. The only reason why I’d think this wouldn’t be worth it is because Manny’s going to want a long term deal. Manny’s getting old. He’s also questionable in the club house.
If Manny were around for say a one or two year deal, than maybe he’s worth it. Usually he wears down mentally the longer he’s on a team. If he’s just there for a pit stop, he can help. Manny doesn’t want that though. That’s exactly why he left Boston. The Red Sox would have gladly picked up those options had he not been a disturbance to their clubhouse. Manny’s going to look for the best deal. The Dodgers are a big market team that spends and they’re not going to let him go easy because they gave up a lot to get him. Plus, he sells tickets. He could get a 4-5 year type deal at 20MM+ a year.
Hypothetically even if Manny were with the Mets for one or two years, is that worth a first round pick? I don’t think so. If we signed him to a longer deal than that, he’d eventually be another old egocentric Met with nagging injuries. Where does F-Mart play? Where does Murphy play next year? We got Beltran in CF and Church in RF. Sure, you can trade him. But for what? Why not develop our youth?
After a variety of FA’s declare, the Mets pick up Delgado’s option, Johan gets his salary hike and hopefully re-sign Ollie, the Mets are looking at around 20 MM they can use. If they chose not to re-sign Oliver and go after CC, they could use around half of that to try to lure him in. A little less likely, they could consider the idea with Texeira.
The needs of the team should be addressed before looking for any surpluses. K-Rod is the best guy out there who’d mean the most to this team. It’d allow us to trade Wagner – a guy who’s blown as many heart breaking saves who we can’t trust as the rest of the bullpen. They’ll be a team out there willing to take Wagner off the Mets hands and not ask them to pay for him. Than with the rest, you can add a couple relievers who can complement the bullpen.
I would like to see them go after Ben Sheets. I know the injury history, but he has been nothing short of spectacular this year. At 15MM per year, I would rather see that locked up in a guy that guarantees to be ace material when he pitches. Ollie is a crapshoot.
Yeah, I don’t understand how he’s a bust. His numbers are pretty good for a 19yo in AA. He’s also coming back from a broken wrist last year and a playing 2008 with a strained hamstring. If he gets stronger with age (makes sense at 19) his HR and SLG will go up. The only concern I see is his K/BB.
How about this. Let’s not ”over hype” Wilmer Flores. He’s 17. To most people, that’s high school. We know he’s hitting well down there, but there’s a long way to go. Didn’t we say the say for F-Mart? I wouldn’t say F-Mart isn’t going to be good. I think he will. I think that between his injuries and the progress of Murphy and Evans, that it can be a little overshadowed. If we look back, it may have been a better move to give F-Mart to the Twins instead of Gomez.
The Mets went through a series of believing some OF prospect was a God. They did it with Milledge. He didn’t have the head and he wasn’t keeping up. He also got hurt. Than comes Gomez. His speed impresses us. He gets hurt. If he had stayed around longer, he may have developed into a solid Met. Than comes F-Mart. They finally decide not to rush with him like they did with the other guy’s. A mixture of because he got hurt too and other guy’s like Tatis, Murphy and Evans have produced.
So is Wilmer Flores the next God to come along? The next guy who’s pumped up more so we can use as a trip chip? They use to say Gomez was ”even better” than Milledge. Than they said F-Mart was better than all of them. Don’t worry, they’ll be someone after Wilmer. It never fails. We may never see any of them in the line up card.
Gomez’s line this year .252 /.289/.341/.630
He has the greatest range of any OF, but he’s the same Gomez after 500AB this year. I don’t see him being anything more than a Endy Chavez type of player with more stolen bases.
Putting down F-Mart would just be a way of making Wilmer Flores sound better. I’d like to have confidence in both of them. I think F-Mart is more pro ready. Wilmer could have injuries of his own like the previous two Mets OF prospects. By the time he may be capable of playing pro ball, Beltran’s contract may be up. LF belongs to F-Mart. Murphy will eventually see 2B or 1B while playing a variety of positions to keep him in the line up. Same thing could happen with Nick.
I’m not going to get down on a guy who I haven’t ever seen play ball. He’s supposed to be a 5 tool guy. Maybe he won’t. If he’s a guy who hits 25 HR a year and can hit like .280, steal some and play good defense, that’s fine with me. People are expecting superstars to roll around. Not many guy’s are going to be like Reyes, Wright or Santana.
Maybe it’s better F-Mart isn’t ”lighting it up” in AA. Look at Lastings. He was tearing the cover off the ball down there. Than he comes up and gets eaten alive. Not everyone’s going to be David Wright bashing home runs down there or Jose stealing that many bases. There’s a lot of guy’s who don’t tear it up down there. You see a lot of pitchers who don’t have amazing ERA’s who are projected as some of the best prospects while guys with good numbers are rated lower. Give Fernando time and he’ll be regularly hitting 2nd or 6th for the Mets. He’s so young. I just don’t understand why everything is about rushing players. Give guy’s like Murphy time and they adapt a lot better.
What will help F-Mart too is that there is less pressure on him to break out. When you got guy’s out there who are producing, it makes having you a luxury. The Mets extreme depth in the OF can now allow them to use their money in different areas in the next couple of off seasons. I think this team has to focus more on it’s pitching prospects too. I’d like to see more of Pelfrey’s come around.
Have we all forgotten that F-Mart was projected to be a once-in-a-generation type of hitter? These words were spoken by numerous GM’s as recent as last off-season. I don’t know this Wilmer Flores character but I did get to see F-Mart face some serious major league pitching in spring training and fare pretty well. Lets just all take a deep breath, realize we still have a top 10 mlb prospect in F-Mart (5 TOOLS) and just let the kid develop. Remember when everyone wanted to trade jose reyes because he had a hammy problem? How conveniently we forget about those dark days. Fernando will be fine, he’ll be crushing it from left field for the next 10 years and we’ll all be happy we didn’t expect too much from a 20 year old when he clearly isn’t ready for this stage.
F-Mart
still… I would trade him in a heartbeat for a decent middle reliever
you never trade 19 year old outfielders for a decent middle reliever
Very true, would you trade him for Houston Street or BJ Ryan?
Perhaps
The only reliever I would trade him for straight up, would be K-Rod. But even that is necessitated a bit by our bullpen woes.
You don’t have to do that, he will be a FA. It’s just Street and Ryan would be cheaper.
Martinez is NOT untouchable, and yet the rush to box him in as a bust is a bit much.
I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect teenagers to play full professional seasons without getting plagued by injuries … they’re still maturing physically… so i worry more about the mets rushing FMArt than by his injuries.
F-Mart’s stats are up to date.
He’s been a disappointment. For those who keep harking on, “he’s only 18 years old!” to “he’s only 19 years old!” to “he’s only 20 years old!”, please tell me Alex Ochoa has yet to enter your mind and I’ll believe you. Promise.
He has Ochoa and Escobar written all over him.
Here is a player who made his debut in the major leagues when he was 19 and had a ops+ of 50. Gee I wonder whatever happened to Babe Ruth?
^^^^^^
Yes another Crank Yanker, when Fmart turns out to be a good player for the Met’s sees, this jerk will say “I knew it all along” Go take a long Nap you weasel!!!
For anyone who says Ochoa and Escobar you really need to go look at the statistical performances of those gents at the same age and then the rest of their minor league careers before making silly comparisons.
If it is simply to evoke other guys that were hyped, fine, but Martinez game does not resemble either of those two in the least.
Yeah, the author of the update should have taken his own advice and not commented on things he is obviously clueless about. Not that Callis is any better.
Injuries aside, Fernando showed great progress as the season went along — of note was his excellent K/BB ratio in August. We all know about the shows he puts on in BP, it’s only a matter of time before that translates into game action. And time is something we have considering Fernando hasn’t hit his 20th birthday yet.
Wilmer is off to a promising start, but let’s see him do it over a full season before calling him an elite prospect. Remember, Fernando dominated the Sally league at age 17. Wilmer’s not even close, not at this point.