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The Mets bullpen has not allowed a run in it’s last four appearances, spanning 15 innings.
Duaner Sanchez, as quoted by David Lennon in Newsday:
“A lot of people have been talking about the bullpen, the bullpen, the bullpen. Listen, everybody goes through tough times…Go and look at the record since Billy left. If it’s a losing record, then we can talk about it. If not, we have nothing to talk about – simple as that. I know what we can do and we never lost the confidence that we can do it.”
As Lennon points out, the Mets are 21–9 since Wagner was put on the disabled list.
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Still doesn’t change us fans being nervous about them. it still seems that everytime someone comes in that plenty of action takes place. Ayala has been good but he always seems to make things interesting. Probably not a coincidence that Heilman hasn’t been in for a few games and the Mets won 4 in a row…
Well, right now the guys are hot, so it doesn’t matter who comes in. But with Manuel’s strategy of cycling through the bullpen until he finds the guy that doesn’t have it that night, you have to be a little worried.
I just don’t want to hear it from this bullpen if they resume their awful play:
“Still, it must be noted that the Mets may be running some of their bullpen corps into the ground, with Pedro Feliciano (74 appearances), Luis Ayala (71), Aaron Heilman (71) and Joe Smith (71) all in the top seven in the majors in relief appearances.” Daily News
What are supposed to be concerned about here? Is it that they might start pitching poorly due to fatigue? How is that any different than pitching poorly when rested, which is what they’ve done for the majority of the last 2 years? Just continue pitching well (for a change) and keep quiet. The vocal ones always seem to be the biggest culprits, it amazes me.
The main reason the bullpen has been pitching better is because with the addition of Ayala, Stokes and Figgy to the roster we haven’t had to see as much from the other dogs in this bullpen.
Manuel deserves all the credit in the world for making this bullpen by committee work. Rather than be intransigent or use his gut Manuel has indentified the strengths and weaknesses of the bullpen. He has separated those pitchers that are successful in getting hitters out from both sides of the plate versus those that are specialists. He has used the guys to their best advantage trying to put them in positions where they will be successful. He also seems to try and use all the resources he has available instead of only sticking with his guys. Obviously he has made some mistakes and has had to use pitchers in situations that don’t work out but generally he has done an excellent job.
You are correct in worrying that by using so many pitchers eventually one will be inserted that will fail in that outing but by using so many pitchers in a given game he has also limited the exposure time of some of these pitchers and gets them out of there before the opposing team adjusts to him.
The team’s performance speaks for itself.
BTW I wonder if Sanchez ever found that restaurant he was looking for if indeed it was food he was seeking.
All well and good, but how many of those 9 losses were due to blown saves by the bullpen?
You posted an interesting stat a month or so ago that said if the bullpen were able to hold on to just half the games they’ve blown, the Mets would have the best record in the NL. It’s nice that things are working well this week, but next week, who knows?
At any rate, nothing can really be done at this point beyond praying. But come the offseason, fixing the bullpen should be Omar’s first order of business (and I believe K-Rod is a FA).
Your right, about how many of those 9 wins were blowpen blowups, and to boot, 2 of those 21 wins came off of Mike Pelfry complete games, so they didn’t get the chance to eff it up.
The answer is 4.
It doesn’t always work that way. You can’t just say that if the bullpen were able to hold onto games, the Mets record would be x or y. A devastating loss seems to ignite this team. If that devastating loss in Philly last week propelled them to win 4 of the next 5, then what if they held onto that 7-0 lead? Maybe they ease up just a hair and go 3-2 or 2-3. You never know in this game. The devastating losses/bullpen meltdowns could actually be a good thing in an odd sense in that it inspires this team to push harder.
Interesting to consider… I hadn’t thought of it that way, but it seems to make some strange sense.
It makes it a little easier to digest a meltdown too. I don’t get too upset because I just think, hey, maybe that was necessary to get them going on a run again. I felt that way after that blown 7-0 game, and so far, it’s hard to argue the results.
Yes, but as you say, it doesn’t always work that way. You can’t just say that if the bullpen weren’t able to hold onto games, the Mets record would be x or y. A hard won victory seems to ignite this team. If that come from behind win in Milwaukee this week propelled them to win the next 2, then what if they held onto that 7-0 lead a week earlier? Maybe they sweep the Phils and go 7-1 on this road trip. You never know in this game.
You’re right, there is no answer either way. Same goes for in game situations. When someone gets caught stealing, and the next pitch is a home run, it always bothers me hearing the announcers say “Well, if he stays put and doesn’t try to steal, it’s a 2 run home run.” How do they know that the pitch selection would have been the same with a runner on first as compared to the bases empty? And how do we know the batters approach would have been the same?
According to Einstein and top theoretical thinkers, history and all future events are on a straight timeline, which means if you change just one thing in that time thread, even as small as killing a butterfly, you just changed all future events from that point on. So there is no correlation between a base runner getting picked off and a subsequent homerun. But, you can’t expect these ‘Genius” announcers to even comprehend such a deep, theoretical concept, so they will forever keep saying it would have been two runs instead of one
Yep. That’s why I’m dreading Saturday’s Fox game and Sunday’s espn game. Between Buck, McCarver and Morgan, oh boy.
Yep. LOL The IQ meter will go off the scale with those three Geniuses! LOL
K-Rod would be a big mistake. I believe the teams money could be spent wisely elsewhere.
Agreed. K-Rod and Wagner in the bullpen, even if only for one year, wouldn’t work. Neither would be willing to accept a role as a set-up man.
Given Wagner has blown 7 games this year, if the Mets have a chance to sign K-Rod and Wagner doesn’t like, he should feel free to waive his no-trade clause.
But Wagner is getting on in years and has said that he has no plans to pitch after 2009. So he might be amenable to a set-up role in his final year.
Streaky, like this team. But they get the job done. Hopefully Billy comes back rested, and we’re awesome. And hopefully having 42 relievers keeps the best ones from being overworked and rested for the playoffs.
Right now I am actually confident in Stokes and Ayala,Smith against righties,and Feliciano against lefties. and Figgy as a long man. If Wagner comes back healthy we could actually have a good and deep bullpen
Having 42 relievers is fine if they’re going to pitch, but the call ups have yet to get into game action (outside of Niese). Jerry Manuel has insisted that he’s most comfortable using guys he knows, and at this point, unless we’re involved in real blow out (yesterday apparently doesn’t count), it seems that he’ll be sticking with the regulars.
Figgy?
No, you’re right about that, but it’s still early, and there’s an off day today. But what it gives is that relief, that if he burns them out one day, he can use the other guys the next day (Of course, leaving Kunz rotting for a week didn’t help) Or if he uses everyone in 3 innings and Heilman has to pitch more pitches than he has all season, he has someone behind him besides Perez.
Exile Heilman and Show!! Without those 2 guys ruining things I am confident the pen can get it done. Stokes has been amazing, Figgy looks good. Smith and Feliciano are pretty good at what there supposed to do. Just don’t pitch Helman and Show!!!!
What’s great about Stokes is that he throws smoke. No one else in the bullpen throws particularly hard (outside of Heilman, who we know has been hit-or-miss), so it’s good that he offers something different. And he has been excellent.
Sanchez used to throw smoke. Damn taxi cabs. But apparently Parnell throws smoke too. He won’t get much of a chance in a big spot however.
Cutting down on Sanchez will also help
Although he looked good his last 2 times out. Maybe that talk about him tipping his pitches had some merit. Who knows?
No big deal and all, but you spell the possessive ‘its’ without the apostrophe. Pops up a lot on the main page, kinda looks bad.
Hey stickler…in Matt’s defense, on this post he was using it correctly (it is = it’s).
I love the site and after yesterday’s “Write to the MTA” smackdown want no part of Matthew Cerrone’s wrath, but Bogar is correct.
The Mets bullpen has not allowed a run in IT’s last four appearances, spanning 15 innings.
I would never call out Matt, but at least get your critique of the critique correct.
Fellas, there is a very simple trick on this if you ever get stuck. Just say “it is” out loud and if it sounds wrong (as it does in the case), then there should be no apostrophe.
You guys are all right…I was referring to the Sanchez quote “If it’s a losing record.” The other it’s is clearly wrong.
Sanchez should just shut up and pitch but the ball does bounce both ways.
The bullpen pitched well enough in some respect last Tuesday to give the Mets a chance to stay in for 13 innings but the offense ended in the 3rd.
The bullpen was stellar in games 1 and 2, and in fact critical in the those two wins of the Brewers series.
Several blown ones have been brutal no doubt, but it is rare that a bullpen let down is not a quick to the nads.
how can you say “exile show?”
granted, he’s not the dominating bp dude we need, but the kid is AMAZING against lefties…the thing he he HAS TO BE our lefty specialist, PARTICULARLY when an inning is starting and there’s 2 or more lefties coming up.
check this out.
Only given up 13 hits to lefties, with 20 Ks and 6 walks. Which translates to a .151 BA, .224 OBP, and a MEASLEY .267 slg
Now, on the reverse side, yeah, he’s horrendous against righties. But i’ll be honest…it’s still gonna be a dog fight against philly, and i want HIM pitching to utley and howard after our starter is gone…not to mention other tough lefties against all other teams and God willing the playoffs…
just stinks that our pen is basically made up of “specialists” and not “true” bp guys
“just stinks that our pen is basically made up of “specialists” and not “true” bp guys”
Thats the main problem right there. Not enough “crossover” pitchers..although ayala and stokes are filling in nicely in that catagory.
No Way!! I want Feliciano against those 2..He dominates both of them. Show can come in if the Mets are up 15-1….
well thats tru, feliciano owns utley for sure…but still…show gets a bad rap cuz we STILL, even with jerry or wilile or whoever, dont use him right. He should be like mike stanton, or arthur rhodes, like 98% used against lefties. The number don’t lie, he dominates them.
Won’t disagree but I get nervous anytime he comes in. I have nothing to back that up because the stats are there. All his pitches are pretty straight and that scares me. Feliciano has the nasy slider that Utley and Howard rarely ever hit. So this weekend in the 8th inning and those two up, I want Felicano everytime…
Agreed. In addition to the nasty slider, Feliciano also has that deceptive side-arm like delivery going, and it’s a lot tougher to pick up than Scho’s. Also seems like Feliciano strikes out a lot more hitters than Scho as well.
lol…dude, i REALLY STILL, to this day, after posting for years and stuff…i STILL can’t get over ur tag name..makes me laugh every time…lol..im still laughin…i dont know why, just gets me everytime
Thanks I used to be Mister Koo, but it stopped working. But I remember Park in spring training 07 when he was giving up bombs every time out and thought of that.
VERY stupid quote by Dauner..i dont care how many games we’ve won since Wagner has been on the DL that is pretty irrelevent to our bullpen. The fact of the matter is that every single one of them has been AWFUL
at one point or another yes but overall(and duaners point) since our closer has been shut down they mets are 21-9.
Stokes has not been awful. Ayala has been OK — not great, but not awful. The last few games, Feliciano and Smith have done the specialist thing quite well.
I still think there is reason to be pretty concerned about the pen, but we should give credit where credit is due.
Here is an interesting stat from Jayson Stark:
Pitchers with the most 1-2-3 saves in ‘08:
Joakim Soria 21
Jonathan Papelbon 18
Billy Wagner 18
Francisco Rodriguez 17
Mariano Rivera 15
Jose Valverde 15
heh..
and of course I’m pretty sure most of those guys didn’t miss a month…definitely doesn’t seem that way right?
this also speaks volumes about K-Rod, who leads the universe in saves, 25 more than the next highest total
It also speaks volumes on how bad Billy has been when he’s not having a 1-2-3 inning.
Surprised K-Rod has that many since he pretty much puts guys on every appearnce, but I guess that is because he has had so many opportunities this year.
Billy has a pretty sick WHIP this year. He had that really bad stretch where he blew 3 straight games, otherwise he has had a pretty solid year.
Actually I think this just makes us spoiled when it comes to saves. We expect a perfect inning every time.
The reason we have started to win with this bullpen and the reason they are improving is because of two reasons.
First, some fresh faces. Stokes fits our bullpen well. He throws heat. Ayala is more of a change of speed pitcher. Previously we had sliders and change-ups and that was it. Batters have learned to lay off of Heilmann’s changeup because it won’t be a strike and his fastball is always at the same height (thanks very much Rick Peterson)
So now we have variety in our bullpen which fits better.
Second, Jerry Manuel has learned to pitch these guys in the right spots. Our bullpen works well when its lefty-lefty righty-righty. That means its full of situational pitchers but nobody but Wagner who can retire guys on both sides of the plate. Willie used to try to force guys into that role. Jerry hasn’t. He knows he needs to use his guys more as situational guys.
This may not sound like much but having a guy like Stokes in the Bullpen makes a big difference. He can pitch to lefties and righties and he can go an inning or two. This means Jerry can pitch the other guys more sparingly. This saves their arms and it helps the matchups better.
NO Heilman = 4 game winnig and sweep of the Brew Crew.
Does anyone on here doubt that if Heilman had been used in the last 4 games, we would at least lost one of those?
I do.
People’s constant need to correct Matt’s grammar, spelling, etc. is getting a little old.
I don’t. What happened the last time he pitched???
I appreciate Duaner’s feistiness, but the bullpen has been the weak cog of this team all season. Just because the team is pulling out wins despite the bullpen’s struggles does not eliminate the fact that the bullpen has indeed struggled.
The point, though, is that if we can win despite the bullpen’s struggles, it may not matter as much. I still maintain that the lack of offensive consistency has cost us just as many games as the bullpen.
I disagree. The Mets have scored the 2nd most runs in the National League!!
Regardless, pitching wins in October. If you’re not worried about the bullpen’s struggles now, just you wait…
Regardless of what the stats say, we that have watched games (and I don’t mean to imply that you have not) know that the offense’s failures to score runs consistently and in late inning situations have hurt this team in a meaningful way.
You are right, however, that pitching wins in October. I have my concerns, but I think that if some of these guys (Smith, Feliciano, etc.) manage to get some rest with September call-ups filling in in certain situations, I am confident that they can get the job done in potential playoff situations.
Getting to the playoffs may be the hard part…
And I disagree with you.
The Mets were near the bottom of the league in scoring most of the first half. If you recall, during the first half one of the concerns we had with this team was the lack of offensive consistency. Now we are scoring runs and it has catapulted us to second in the league in runs.
Before July 2nd (our 85th game) we were averaging 4.68 runs per game, since then we are averaging 5.36 runs per game, a good .68 runs per game difference. And since this time our record has been 38-18 a .679 winning pct. Prior to that it was 41-43 a .488 winning pct.
Conversely at this same point we had given up 4.74 runs per game. Since then we have given up 3.71 runs per game, almost a whole run different.
In essence, since then we have gained 1.71 runs per game over the team that we were at that point.