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Since August 14th, Aaron Heilman has pitched eight innings of relief and has allowed only one earned run on six hits. On August 26th, he threw three innings of shutout relief in a 13 inning loss to the Phillies.
Despite his recent success, I feel that some players have to do more than others to gain the respect of the fans. I look at how Scott Schoeneweis was booed on Opening Day without even throwing a pitch, and feel that the same negative stigma has befallen Aaron Heilman whether it is justified or not.
In the roulette game that is the bullpen, I hope Heilman can remain effective because this is after all a team sport, and I root for the name on the front of the jersey. However, if all things remain equal, the Mets should explore trading Heilman when the season is through for a couple of reasons.
First, I think that some players just need a fresh start to maximize their potential. If body language is any indication of happiness, then Heilman is unhappy in Queens. This is all speculation, and I never saw him throw at Notre Dame, but when I watch him pitch I feel his anxiety. One could say the same about when John Maine throws, but where Maine comes across as confident in his intensity, Heilman looks like he’s carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders.
Second, the Mets may not be able to get as much value as they once could for the righty, but with pitching being in need nearly everywhere, the Mets still have a chance to bundle him with say Luis Castillo as noted earlier on Metsblog, and get something good in return. They could even market him as a potential starting pitcher.
Again, I wish Heilman the best and truly want him to succeed. If he remained a Met in 2009, I wouldn’t be disappointed. But sometimes players, a la Ryan Church, just need a fresh start.
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I predict my stomach will hurt when Heilman is summoned to pitch in a big spot this weekend.
my stomach hurts everytime i see a pic of his mug…
Metsblog should include a photo of Larry Linville (Frank Burns) with any post about Heilmann.
Brilliant, Gameball ! You hit that one out of the park!
But now the question must be asked………..who on the Mets looks like “Hot Lips” Houlihan?? :)
Mmm, I guess by default that would have to go to Joe Smith. The rest of the pen is pretty much a bunch of mullions.
Wonder what Hawkeye would think of Joe Smith? :)
LGM!!!
LF Daniel Murphy is expected to be asked to play second base in the Arizona Fall League after completing the major league season. Getting Murphy experience at second base appears to signal the Mets’ intent to trade Luis Castillo in the offseason, if possible. Castillo has underwhelmed since signing a four-year, $25 million contract last winter.
thats reads like a nice cut and paste.
yeah I got it from Yahoo sports.
or you could have gotten that when it was posted here two or three days ago.
I agree with you here. There’s just something about the guy coming out to pitch. And I can’t help put assume that fans are incredibly judgmental (and obviously impulsive) and will boo based on gut. When Heilman goes out and fails – it looks ugly, much uglier than when others go out and give up a few bombs. His body language looks just plain awful at times and I sometimes wonder if he’s lost faith in his own ability.
That being said the fans, again, are just way too impulsive for my liking. What’s the confidence rating now, 84%? If the Mets had just won 2 of 3 vs Milwaukee it woulda been less. Fans take way way way too much from what JUST happened. Sho was being cheered when he started the season off hot, as if the fans thought he was a different pitcher. It’s really just a reflection of the impatience and overrall lack of ability to see the big picture that has these mets fans booing and cheering their lungs out based on the last week’s worth of games.
Obviously, he’d be happier if he were allowed to start, and perhaps this offseason is the time to revive that experiment.
Now, before anyone writes in to say that the Mets have no intention of letting him start, recall that as recently as Spring Training 07, he was given the chance to join the rotation. He pitched very well that spring and would have been in the rotation on Opening Day were it not for a slightly better performance by Brian Bannister.
By the time Bannister went onto the DL, Heilman was proving himself (again) to be a valuable seventh-inning man. And so no move was made.
But it’s simply not true that the Mets were persuaded by his mediocre earlier results as a starter never to give him another chance. They were willing to overlook those results entirely and were fully prepared to make him starter #5.
*Of course I mean Spring Training 06
I wouldnt mind seeing him as the long man now, stretching him out in preparation for being a starter. In fact I wouldn’t mind one bit seeing him start a game one of these days, if Brian Stokes can do it, why not Heilman?
Heilman throws just as hard and has better movement on his fast ball. Plus he doesn’t pitch like a relief pitcher one bit, he’s a starter.
i guess you havent noticed we are in playoff race…
he walked in the winning run against florida without a single hit. that’s all i’m gonna say
He doesn’t have the mental makeup to be a reliever in pressure situations. Period. He needs to be a starting pitcher, if not here, than somewhere else.
It’s absolutely comical that the biggest reason to keep him in the pen for the past 3 years was because he was so necessary there. Now all those people who wanted him in the pen so badly have turned their back on him.
He should have never been put in the pen in the first place. He should have been allowed to start … or traded somewhere else.
This is one of the biggest blunders the Mets have made when it comes to the handling of a player.
I can’t believe that I am in total agreement with you. We should frame this post.
Heilman is and always will be a starter. If it is not for us then it will be for someone when he is a FA. Why not try it next season as a cost cutting shake up? If he sucks then Niese may be ready by then.
haha … we’re actually not that far off. It’s just one thing that you harp on constantly that I respond to often. (Castillo)
I actually agree with most of what you say, which is why I don’t bother responding to you most of the time.
Keep that in mind.
I really think he needs to be moved, especially if there is some team out there that values him as a starter. I would imagine thats how we would get the most value out of him.
Many teams have valued him as a starter for the past 3 years. Mets could have traded him and gotten so much for him, yet would rather stick a square peg in a round hole.
Ive always liked heilman but i truly believe he is unhappy here and he is just not succeeding here in queenz anymore. I dont know when the road turned on him but fact is fact. Look at ayala who basically has the same numbers as heilman and his success on the mets. A change of scenery and a change of position may be what arron needs. I respect his devotion to the team and wanting to help where help is needed, but he has always wanted to be a starter and i dont see him getting that opportunity here in NY. I think with the aquisition of ayala and stokes, losing heilman would not be the end of the world in the BP. I would like omar to seriously make a play to move heilman. Like i said i like heilman..always have..but i think his tenure in NY has run its course and he needs to thrive somewhere else..because it doesnt seem like its going to happen here.
I’m Xavier22 and I approve this message.
lmaooo…”I believe in change”
Change we can believe in!
Heilman-Castillo ‘09!
“I respect his devotion to the team and wanting to help where help is needed,”
whats his alternative?… nada he is not eligible for FA… his job is to pitch, not to decide when, where he pitches. Not that i would call …batting practice.. pitching
Ugh…can Heilman doing something right this season in the bullpen before we begin the lets him start campaign.
Ugh…What??
That’s why we want him to start, duh.
Yes that is brilliant, a guy who struggled as a starter in the minors and had ONE wow start as a major leaguer finds success in the bullpen and logically if you just move him back to where he failed it will be great.
I predict if Maine and Wagner come back healthy that neither Schoenweis or Heilman will make the NLDS roster. The Mets would probably carry only 11 pitchers, so you’d be looking at:
Santana/Pelfrey/Perez/Maine/Martinez/Feliciano/Smith/Stokes/Ayala/Sanchez/Wagner. How can you take any of those guys out of the playoffs the way they have been pitching?
I’d say Maine…prolly b/c he isn’t going to pitch again this season
Has he even been throwing recently…if not, then as of now he’d need 1-2 weeks to gt back. and thats saying hes ready to go now.
Maine will most likely be left off. He would be considered a #5 starter considering his question marks and they are usually left off the roster. Besides he would be more of a question mark in the pen than Heilman would. Also, I expect them to carry 12 pitchers and 13 hitters as usual. So Heilman and Show willl both be there. The cruch will come with hitters.
Delgado, Castillo, Reyes, Wright, Schnieder, Church, Beltran, Murphy,
Castro, Endy, Tatis, Easley and a dog fight for the last spot.
I don’t think they would need 12 pitchers for the NLDS. Maybe for the NLCS if they make it that far. And I would think in the NLDS case if Maine can’t go that Schoenweis would make it as the second lefty. I also wonder if they would scratch Martinez from the NLDS roster?
Possible but that’s thinking that you would only need 3 starters.
Seriously, I’ve posted 15 things today and 4 of them have made it into this site. Not once have I posted something inappropriate in any way – no expletives, nothing prejudiced, and nothing harshly criticizing the Mets or their front office. What’s up Cerrone? I’m not gonna bother going on here anymore if I’m not able to post sompletely benign things
There are certain words that don’t get through. I know for a fact that you can’t type the word a ss. ume because of it’s first syllable. It’s pretty silly but look at any possible word in your post that could have a curse word within it and there is your answer.
It doesn’t always have to be an expletive. For example, I always get blocked when I use the word a$$ume. Because of what the first three letters spell.
And because it makes an a$$ out of u and me!
Yeah I said the same thing only I spelled a$$ume “a ss. ume”
See … I not only fooled the filter … I fooled you too!
It drives me crazy too, I don’t understand why they can’t make at least give us a list of banned words or something.
yes
So if I write an in depth research driven post describing the Mets advantages when playing on a grasds surface vs playing on artificial turf, I must mis-spell the word grasds because otherwise, I’ll get blocked.
I understand we need to keep it clean on here Cerrone but there are probably hundreds of posts that get blocked because the word as$ is found within other words. What if I was to type the vice president’s first name? I can’t? Must I refer to him as Mr. Cheney?
Anyway I don’t really care, I’ll be more careful.
To keep that aswhole heilman on the team any longer makes me as angry as the dickens.
I got the words through. Maybe it’s just you guys.
Have you hit “enter” after you typed them?
hmm. Maybe we can trade Maine and Heilman to Colorado for Holliday. Colorado said they really wanted young pitching.
That’s an interesting thought but i don’t know if it would be enough.
And then who replaces Maine in the rotation? So far the Mets have Santana, Pelfry and Maine for next year.
Negotations with Ollie are not going to be easy as Bora$ is his agent, so there’s no guarantee that he’ll be in the rotation next year – and if he is, it won’t be done cheaply.
Pelfry is working out nicely this year, but he’s also pitched a lot of innings for his age. So there’s no guarantee he’ll continue along his upward trajectory next season.
Neise *might* replace Pedro in the rotation next year, but Omar will still have to go after a #5 starter for insurance.
Bottom line: I’d prefer the Mets hold onto Maine as that would be one less thing for Omar to worry about this offseason. The bullpen should be his #1 priority.
There are decent RHP in the free agent market next year. Sheets, Burnett. Either one of those guys can effectively replace Maine.
The only problem is if we’re trading for Holliday , IMO, we’re going to have to be willing to resign him as a free agent, if we replace Maine with either of those guys, who are going to want pretty big contracts, are we going to be leaving ourselves enough room in 09 to resign Holliday. I know money isn’t a problem for us but that’s a lot of money added to the payroll.
Then that would leave us to fill 3 slots instead of 2 next year..and niese is not ready.
Niese is not ready for sure. Now if you are creative.
Johan, Maine, Perez, Lowe and an innings guy like Odaliz Perez would work.
Then having Holliday in LF would be a heck of a lineup.
Meant to have Pelfrey in there for Maine of course.
i was just thinking the same after i posted my response(thinking outside of the box)…If colorodo would accept a package like that..Fmart would becomes expendable imo…wonder what we could net for a guy like that….a new closer perhaps….
An innings guy like Odalis Perez? If I had to watch Odalis Perez take the 5th starter spot on this team, I would guarantee myself barfing at least 30 times next year.
I agree with that…I would rather go with someone like Jon Garland…I wonder why he isnt getting much talk around here?
He pitches a lot of innings and gets through games…I think it would be good to have him as the #4 or 5 next year.
Dude really? Are you crazy? They’re going to want a lot more than than for Matt Holliday…like starting with our number one prospect…Whether in be Fmart or Flores…and or a young pitcher like Parnell or Niese
I have no problem with including F-Mart if Holliday is willing to sign a long term deal. Holliday is still in his late 20’s he can be effective for 7 or 8 more years.
Aaron Heilman and Castillo should bring something good back in return? What are you smoking? Cause I want some.
Castillo is one of the worst contracts in all of the major leagues and Aaron Heilman is a loser. The guy is absolutely pathetic. He complains about wanting to start but he can’t even pitch ONE scoreless inning. Why should we give him an entire 9 to work with?
Hopefully we can find some way to get Castillo off the team even if it means paying half his bad contract so that he doesn’t slow to progression of a one Daniel Murphy and Argenis Reyes.
heilman pitched great out of the bullpen for a couple years. the idea of the post was that a change of scenery could help him, so no one is thinking he’ll be starting for the mets next year. in fact, if he stays on the team, he’ll be right back out in the bullpen i’m sure.
as a starter, he becomes more attractive to other teams.
also, why do people insist on believing argenis reyes is anything more than the next ruben gotay?
Or even as good as Gotay. I guess at least Reyes can field. But if it’s possible he may have a worse bat than Gotay. If that is the case he would be better off going up to the plate without a bat.
Honestly, when was the LAST time you heard him complain about starting, as opposed to speculation of that
Crazy to think how much value he had a few years ago, but of course he was a big value to us for a couple of seasons. I wonder what we could exchange for him at this point in the offseason?
well if omar sells heilman on his desire to start im sure we can find a taker…
What about F-Mart, Church, and Niese for Holliday and Taveras
I think that is too much. F-Mart and Niese are both top prospects. Church will hit about 30 HR in a full season at Coors.
Holliday is a great player, but there are still questions about how good he will be away from “the hitter-friendly confines”. You could do a Church and Niese deal for a bonafide #2 or #3 starter. But, I’m not sure about Holliday and Taveras. Taveras is an outfield version of Luis Castillo.
Heilman is and always should have been a starter. He throws a 4 and devasting 2 seamer, with a damn good changeup. He used to mix in a slider on occasion as well. Didn’t he one hit the Marlins twice in ‘05? I just have a feeling the Mets will end up trading him to the Midwest, a la Cardinals, Cubs, Brewers and he’ll be a pretty good starter, haunting the Mets twice a year.
only thing devastating is the pain he causes met fans
How does a thread that wonders about Aaron Heilman’s mind warp into trading John Maine whom the Mets have under control for at least two more full seasons?
You don’t give up on a young arm like his that thows a mid-90s fastball with two other pitches. The Mets have screwed this guy up so badly it’s a miracle they haven’t injured him as well. Starting pitching is so much more valuable to the Mets, especially in the next year or so when Pedro is gone, Maine has health issues, and Oliver Perez could and likely will bolt for free agency. That’s three of five starters potentially out of here.
Heilman’s up and down as a reliever, yes. His stock is at a low right now so it makes no sense to trade him, especially in a package with dead weight like Castillo and also considering his very low salary. Stretch him out and let him start next year. Can he be worse than, say, Nelson Figueroa? I don’t think so, but even if he is you can send him back to the pen and deal him.
i like it, um where does murphy play? 2b? does he even?
also i kind of feel like Heilman was overused early in the season. He ranks among top innigs pitched. Though he still throws frequently, and i haven’t checked my facts on this as it is just a feeling, it seems he has had more rest in between appearances of late/ It helps when you have a few complete games in the mix of late too.
I pull very hard for Heilman. He seems like a good guy, and gets lost so grief. Last week in Philly, I found myself saying ” If we lose, let someone else be on the mound instead of Heilman”.
With that said, in pressure situations the look on his face and body language screems “Calvin Shiraldi – 1986 World Series”.
ben sheets may be more affordable than cc. maybe the mets don’t go for the #1 pitcher on the market, but compromise by looking at #2. Perez still isn’t out of the question. he is only worth as much as teams will pay, who will pay that much for a guy with an incosistant reputation that may only win 10-13 games this year?
Don, in a perfect world we get either CC or Sheets, but I just don’t see it happening. We already have Santana tied to a long term deal, and both these guys will command similar numbers. They are both Type A FA’s which will cost us a first rounder.
Someone floated the name Derek Lowe. I like this idea if we don’t sign Perez. Lowe makes $10MM this year and projects to be a Type B FA. Lowe and Perez will make similar amounts next year in all likelihood. Regardless, we can pay them with the money we save from Pedro coming off the books.
another problem with heilman is he goes to the well one too many times and gets hurt by it. the changeup was thrown way too much. i remeber game 7 in ‘06 i said don’t thrpow yet another changeup, he’ll be sitting on it, it is so transparent it is coming.
Have the Mets ever given any consideration in letting Heilman work as a starter in the winter leagues. Maybe that might give us a clue as to his potential.
I know that I’m like most of you in that I cringe when Heilman comes into a game in relief. He just doesn’t seem to be able to find the plate and gives up way too many walks. I know that Ollie walks a lot of batters, but at least I can sense Ollie’s fire and determination to aggressively go after hitters and work his way out of a jam. Heilman looks like he’s about to cry when he walks someone or gives up a hit.
I also think that Heilman has one of the ugliest windups and deliveries I’ve ever seen. His body and his arm always seem to be so out of sync. It just seems so spastic to me.
get rid of these bums!
I tend to like Heilman more so than other Mets fans, but to me, Heilman is still far too important to this team to simply trade away. Yes, he’s had a bad year, but this is his first bad year since he’s moved to the pen. Everyone flipped out like he was terrible last year, but look at his second half. He was great. This year, he struggled mightily early, and while he has gotten better, has still been disappointing.
I think he deserves another chance next year. He still has the stuff to be a good reliever.
Whatever happens in the offseason is going to be predicated on what we do if we get to the postseason. If we win the whole thing expect to re-sign Ollie. And to tell you the truth, Ollie may be the best pitching contract out there not named CC. That is because he is still young and you ought to get another three good years minimum out of him.
The Cubs work for these two as they need a 2b and Heilmann will be close to home (Notre Dame) grad. I think you may need to trade Aaron to get rid of Luis. What we get in return I don’t know. Perhaps some bullpen help.
I don’t think anyone was suggesting he becomes on a starter on the Mets.
Can everybody please stop posting anything that isn’t exactly what I think!?!?!
Who in our rotation besides Santana does go 7-9 innings consistantly?
Thats funny. You can say “hell” on this site but not “a$$ume”.
Very well said. I hate this motherfaulker Heilman. I would love to pummel his face in. I don’t care if he ends up becoming a Cy Young winner after we get rid of him, he has done way too much damage to this team and I can’t take it anymore. Get rid of this lame, headcase, p.o.s. once and for all!!!
Lol. It would have been a lot easier if he had just posted this.
Pelf
Recently you are correct. I hope it continues.
Niese wont be ready to contribute full time next season. Perhaps a mid season callup if he progresses nicely in the minors. Fact is Oliver Perez will be too expensive to resign IMO. They may need to go and get a starting pitcher as priority number one. Of course I’d love Sabathia but investing over 200 mill on 2 starters just isn’t smart. But I’d love seeing that fat monkeycock in a mets uni. And I only type the word monkeycock because it’s seems weird that monkeycock can be written on this site yet the word as$ume can’t.
Wow, Tatis? Really? I like him as a bench player, but a full time guy?
If you’re suggesting a Tatis/Pagan or Tatis/Chavez platoon or something similar… then maybe. I like the idea of bringing him back and giving him spot starts, and making him a regular IF someone goes down. I’m just not sure we could count on him as a full time player for an entire year.
Boscov, I agree with you on Niese but I think attempting to re-sign Ollie would make sense. Even if we have to overpay a bit (say, 4 years 12 per), that makes more economical sense than having to sign someone who is a Type-A FA at the (approximate) same cost.
And… monkeycock. That one’s for you, fatburrell.
I suggest that you kill Utley, Rollins, Burrell or Howard or LARRYYY