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To look back at Billy Wagner-inspired 
backpages from newspapers in New York over the last few years, check out Tomorrow’s Backpage.
In his two and a half seasons with the Mets, Wagner had a 2.38 ERA, in 118 save opportunities he converted 101, which is the fourth highest save total in baseball during that time.
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Wags was a warrior for the Mets.
I wish him well and a speedy recovery.
I have a feeling that we have seen the last of Wags in a Mets uniform.
He was a welcomed upgrade from the likes of Benitez, Luper and Franco.
He was not hear long enough to really have long lasting appreciation, but that should not take away from a fact that he was a good Met (despite his blown saves this year)
Not that much of an upgrade on Benitez, actually. I posted this in another thread:
Armando Benitez
SEASON TEAM W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
1999 Mets 4 3 1.85 77 0 0 0 22 28 78.0 40 17 16 4 0 41 128
2000 Mets 4 4 2.61 76 0 0 0 41 46 76.0 39 24 22 10 0 38 106
2001 Mets 6 4 3.77 73 0 0 0 43 46 76.1 59 32 32 12 1 40 93
2002 Mets 1 0 2.27 62 0 0 0 33 37 67.1 46 20 17 8 3 25 79
Billy Wagner
SEASON TEAM W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
2006 Mets 3 2 2.24 70 0 0 0 40 45 72.1 59 22 18 7 4 21 94
2007 Mets 2 2 2.63 66 0 0 0 34 39 68.1 55 22 20 6 2 22 80
2008 Mets 0 1 2.30 45 0 0 0 27 34 47.0 32 17 12 4 0 10 52
benitez and wagner were basically the same in the regular season and playoffs for the mets. wags was better with the press though so he’s painted better.
wonder where lincecum is going to put his cy young award.
metsftw must be part of the press.
The post that compares the stats of Wagner and Benitez is written out in such a confusing way I have no desire to take a look at it. I’d suggest summing up whatever it is you want to say (their ERAs were this similar, blown saves were that similar, whatever)
Whatever you want to take from the numbers, the bottom line is despite Billy’s propensity for the dramatics, my heart rate wasn’t half of what it was when Benitez ran onto the field. And when Benitez was bad, he was BAD. No comparison IMO unless you look at just #s to form your opinion.
I copied and pasted them from mlb.com. Sorry … that’s how it translates on this comment section. If you want to look just go there … type in the players names and look for yourself.
Wagner imploded just the same way that Benitez did in big games for the Mets.
Never had a chance to implode in the same way. You clearly form your opinions by looking at paper, which is fine. I don’t think you can just look at numbers, so we’re different.
I HATE stats. I did this for the people who LOVE stats.
Billy Wagner against the Yankees 4 runs in 9th. LOSS.
Billy Wagner in 06 NLCS …
Billy Wagner Septermber 07.
Big games. Blown. Season changers.
Benitez and Wagner = Similar numbers, same results.
never had the chance to blow up? did you watch the end of last season? wags blew the fourth game in the sweep by the phils.
how about the 2006 playoffs when he lost game 2?
Thank you, zen. People only see what they want to see.
To say Wagner never had a chance to implde as Met is revisionist history Boscov. How can any Met fan ever forget how he totally imploded AUGUST 30 2007 in Philly. Let me refresh your memory. The slumoing Mets, trying to avoid a sweep came back from a 5-0 deficit, and then from a 8-5 deficit to take a 10-8 lead in the 8th. This overrated big mouth was asked tp pitch 6 outs to right the ship and responded by giving up 4 earned runs. We’re better off weothout Mr big mouth.
Yeah, we are so much better off without him. What a joke. We will see about that in the next three weeks and next year.
Kanehl, you are basing your opinion on ONE GAME?
So many of you think these guys are machines—they are NOT! Even Mariano gave up a hit to lose a World Series!
I think wagner is/was better than benitez but not by much. This guy wagner had an awful lot to say and didn’t really back it up. He basically got willie fired with those 3 blown saves in a week, has NEVER been able to close a big game in his life (even before he came to NY) and complains when he’s called on for either A) a non-save opportunity or B) to pitch in 2 different innings.
Could we use him? of course we can when we got heilman and the boys to depend on but will I miss him? not as much as people think. it’ll be a blessing in disguise when we have the press conference in december introducing K-Rod
I do wish him a speedy recovery and best wishes in the future but whoever said in a previous post that he’s going to the Hall of Fame, there is no shot of that happening unless he goes to watch Piazza’s acceptance speech in a few more years.
I don’t get in the HOF debate.
However, Wagner’s going down stinks for this year but is a huge blessing for next season. He was a walking time bomb and if it had not happen now it would have happen in May and we would have been left trading the farm for Street or Ryan.
I liked the attitude he brought to the team in ‘06. He was one of many culprits from the pitching staff and pen in ‘07. He seemed to right himself this year to start but definitely caused some heartbreakers.
Still, like Pedro he was part of teams that brought the Mets back to relevancy in the NL and for that I am grateful. You always hate to see accomplished athletes go out on less than desireable terms.
101 of 118. Can’t hate on that.
no, you can’t. but apparently he’s no better than benitez, according to the retard above that looks only at ERA.
People who resort to name calling show the mentality that they possess.
Actually, people who make ridiculous posts saying Wagner is barely better than Benitez show their lack of mentality.
Wagner has no heart, he is a choker, he fakes injuries, he’s barely better than Benitez, blah, blah, blah.
The 4th best save pct. and he still gets criticized.
There is one Mariano, and other than him, Wagner is about as good as any other closer over the course of his long career.
I showed you the numbers though. Wagner was very similar to Benitez in his Mets career.
All you have to do is look at it … the mentality on your part shows you’re being lazy and biased.
No, the mentality on my part is of someone who is so sick of people who don’t know a really good player with a giant heart when they see one. You choose a few years out of their long careers to make a silly, inaccurate comparison.
Look at their entire careers—Wagner has been one of the best closers in the game forever. While I was no Benitez-hater, his career is NOTHING like Wagner’s has been. And despite some high-profile meltdowns, Wagner has overall been excellent as our closer.
And I know, Argenis Reyes is SO much better than Castillo, Wright can’t get a hit, Beltran’s lackadaisical, Ruben Gotay’s plaque is being readied in Cooperstown, Jerry and Hojo are morons, blah blah blah.
No, he wasn’t. He wasn’t similar at all. He’s a better pitcher. Just because a few blown saves stick out in your apparently limited mind doesn’t make him the same pitcher as Benitez.
Lets keep the discussion on Billy Wagner and not on what you a.ss.ume I think about everything else, ok?
In Billy Wagner’s long career … he has never close a big game that his team needed. He has a long history of blowing important games for Houston, Philly and the Mets.
He’s had chances to … and blown them all.
“No, he wasn’t. He wasn’t similar at all. He’s a better pitcher.”
metsftw. Explain HOW. What in his numbers show him to be so much better than Benitez was, for the Mets?
Enlighten my limited mind, your majesty.
Record setting 4th agreement with Mikey here. No one is saying that over time that Wagner has not had a better career than Benitez. His point is that as a Met they both had similar numbers. The Mets got Benitez mostly in his average prime and Wagner at the end of his career. However, both had about the same effectiveness for the METS.
Geez Mikey, look at their entire career stats and you might get it.
Also, you say Wagner “has never closed a big game that his team needed”
Never? Not one in his career with 385 saves, 6th on the all-time list? Not ONE of these was important?
He’s blown every single big game. Right. You’re proving my point that you have incredibly limited mental capacity. Look at the walk and home run totals. Benitez’s advantage in strikeouts is completely canceled out by the walks and HR. Wagner walks fewer people and gives up fewer HR. That alone gives him a huge advantage in my book.
kingman … it’s pretty simple to follow. I posted METS STATS.
That is what my argument is about. How did these two players perform for the METS?
Very similar.
“Benitez’s advantage in strikeouts is completely canceled out by the walks and HR. Wagner walks fewer people and gives up fewer HR.”
So, they are similar.
“That alone gives him a huge advantage in my book.”
Your book is your opinion. That’s all that really means. Doesn’t change the fact that they were similar for the Mets.
You can’t “cancel” out everything else because of walks vs. strikeouts.
My book, which is based on empirical evidence and fact, is 10x more informed than your book, which is entrenched in anecdotal and emotional evidence. Get over it. Wagner and Benitez were not the same here.
Considering walks, strikeouts, and HR are the only controllable factors for a pitcher, I’d say they’re probably the most important aspects of pitching. Benitez struck out more people. He also walked a million people. His K/BB compared to Wagner’s is mediocre. He gave up more HR. Advantage: Wagner.
And they both blew big save opportunities while posting very similar numbers, for the Mets.
Was Billy a little better than Benitez? Yes, I’d say so. But there is no big difference between what they did in a Mets uniform.
Similar numbers, same results.
Define “big save opportunities.”
No, wait, don’t. You’ll just cherry pick certain games like you’ve been doing all along. You’re boring me, buddy.
There is nothing anecdotal about what I’m saying. Go look at the numbers again.
If I’m boring you … why do you keep responding? You cherry picked your walk vs. K stats to make your argument better.
I hate to ask Metsfw but what exactly do you not agree with here? Wagner was a better career pitcher than Benitez, however as Mets they both had similar numbers and performed poorly in big situations. Why is that such an inaccurate statement?
No, your the retard because you ignore the fact that Wagner was one of the worst clutch closers in baseball history. Denial doesn’t make it go away.
That’s good–try spell check before calling someone else a retard.
1) It’s “you’re.” Not that hard to understand the difference between “your” and “you’re”…unless you’re a retard. :-)
2) What is a “clutch closer”? Because he hasn’t been great in TEN POSTSEASON INNINGS? Do you judge a pitcher’s season based on 10 innings? Why the hell would you do it with Wagner?
No, you people are biased against Wagner because of his mouth and your selective memory. Wagner >>>>> Benitez. Get a clue.
You are 100% right metsftw, and I thank you for restoring my faith in reality!!
Well you are able to judge a closer based on limited innings because they pitch limited innings. They are paid big money to only pitch 1 inning. Thus 10 innings could be 12+ games that they effected the outcome.
No, you aren’t. 10 innings is not nearly enough of a sample size. Give me 50+ for a reliever before I start making judgments. If you have a couple bad innings in 10, your ERA (apparently the only pitching stat that people on here look at) will be pretty ugly.
How many relievers get 50 innings of post season stats? What a incredible statement. Thus we can never judge a player’s post season effectiveness unless he was on the Yankees?
how many reliever have 50 post-season innings? one?
sorry…in the playoffs a reliever is definately judged by 10 innings. that’s actually a lot for a closer. that means you’ve been in enough series that your team was winning by less than 3 ten times. that a huge amount.
Why don’t you go and look at WHIP or BS then for Wagner in the playoffs. Judge those.
Yeah, I understand most aren’t going to have enough innings. And that’s why you can’t say “this guy sucks in the clutch.” Not a big enough sample size.
Blown saves don’t help me, as a closer can get a blown save on an unearned run. Not all blown saves are made the same.
So you have spent all this time arguing one word? If he had changed it to the playoffs instead of the clutch you would agree? What’s more clutch than the playoffs?
Does not matter, over all he is paid to close the game no matter what. Most of the time if there is an error committed it’s not to bring in winning run. A good closer pitches around those things. Again, I hate him but look at Lidge. Not one blown save all season. That’s a huge advantage.
An unearned run that blows a playoff game goes down as a blown save in the playoffs. If a closer blows a playoff save and their team loses because of it … that means a hell of a lot more than what the stat books say. I’m sorry, but it does.
Like thereal said …good closers pitch around those things.
blown saves on unearned runs? come on. geez. talk about splitting straws.
how about game 2 against the cardinals in 2006 when wagner didn’t blow the save…he lost the game all together.?
These guys that are ignoring the stats are blinded by Wagner’s “heart and grittyness”. Hmmm…. I seem to recall another team who the media loves that has all kinds of “heart and grittyness” I can’t seem to recall what team that is. I know they get all kinds of praise and their bad play is ignored because of all that gritt. Ohhh that grit, it wins games you know.
Let’s face facts, folks, Billy Wags was an elite closer and will one day be enshrined in Cooperstown. Let’s be proud that he gave the Mets all he had for a couple of years.
And let’s be thankful for one of my favorite Mets quotes ever…
“F***ing shocker.”
Wagner is going to the Hall!!!!! Only if you buy him a ticket.
I’m getting all misty eye. Regardless of the outcome, Billy Wagner always gave the Mets 100% when he’s on the mount. He intimidated the opponents, and made the 9th inning electric again.
if only has fastball wasn’t so straight he probably could have caused less anxiety. But he was good for us, lets hope whoever replaces will be equally as good.
anyone notice the backpages are all from THIS year?
At some point in the next 19 games, or perhaps at more than one point, we might be missing Billy Wagner.
Role through the recent history of major league baseball and very rarely does a team win it all let alone make it to the playoffs without a decent closer.
2006 is the only real outlier year in which a team did not have either a closer on a huge role or an established closer to roll in both leagues in the Series.
Not saying Ayala CAN’T DO IT, but there is a lot of time left to find out how at least in holding the division he compares to say John Franco, Benitez or Wagner.
i feel better about ayala closing out a big game than wagner.
k-rod is coming…
Me too, Wagner’s injured. LOL.
But if he were healthy then I would have rather had him closing on this team. Just take him out as soon as he gave up anything. It was clear that when Wagner was hit at all he did not have it.
No one, I repeat no one, has ever done a worst job in big Mets games than Blow-nitez. Wags will be missed, both this month and next month (if there is one for the Mets). And kudos to the folks at tomorrowsbackpage.com for giving us a chance to top great headlines like “Blow-nitez” day after day.
Very tough break for Wagner. I can’t imagine he’ll pitch again after this, since he previously stated that he couldn’t see himself pitching after ‘09.
He’s done a solid job for us, and not having him for the rest of the season and the possible post-season is going to hurt.
Brought some intensity to the game, and had great start of seasons in ‘07 and ‘08.