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In an article for Newsday, David Lennon discusses how Jerry Manuel has remained loose despite the inevitable media buzz of the Mets repeating last year’s “collapse”.
Lennon writes:
“Manuel never has seemed happier. Maybe it’s because he could not have imagined himself in this situation when the season began. Even when Willie Randolph was fired, there’s no way Manuel expected such a drastic turnaround in guiding the Mets to a 51-32 record since he took over on June 17.”
“These days, for anyone involved with the Mets, it helps to have a sense of humor. But Manuel’s ease in the big chair has been consistent since he first settled behind the desk on that fateful trip to Anaheim.”
Lennon also points out that the Mets lead the majors in wins since July 1st, with 45.
…looking back, i feel so much better with manuel steering the ship than i did with willie at the helm…even after a victory, willie’s post-game interviews seemed stressful and defensive, while jerry’s are entertaining and honest, even in defeat…
…his optimistic perspective and humor is what i think will make the difference between last season and this one…
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The difference between him and Willie, at least from the outside, is pretty stark. Both personalities can work, but it certainly seems that Manuel’s is what was needed for this particular group.
Considering he has only had 4 set guys in the lineup, 2 or 3 good starting pitchers, and a zero bullpen – I’d have to say he’s done a pretty good job.
Just curious, what was Willie’s personality? The guy is as boring as can be. Even when he tried to lighten the mood in his final weeks everything felt forced and not that funny.
Face it, the guy is just a stiff pinstriped suit from the Bronx.
Personally, my favorite thing about him is his honesty. Maybe I feel that way because it’s such a drastic change from Willie’s canned answers and hiding of the truth. I love to hear a manager admit when a game is huge, like Manuel did after that last game against Philly when they avoided the sweep. I also like Manuel’s praising of good young players like Murphy. We all know Willie would have thrown him under the bus if he were still here.
Murphy would not even be playing if Willie was still here.
True. And if someone asked him what he thought of him, we would have heard “Look man, he’s no Tony Gwynn. He’ll fall out of his tree eventually.”
I don’t know if it’s true but I think Willie didn’t know well the farm. During Spring Training I read an article about F-Mart and Willie said somethinh like: “I’ve heard great things about him”.
I thought why did you just hear it and didn’t know it. As manager you sould know something about your top prospects at least because you could need them soon.
It’s amazing how wrong people are.
Manuel is flat out a bad manager in the right place at the right time. And he’s full of crap. 90% of what he says in interviews and post game stuff is a lie. “This guys my closer”..then doesn’t use him. Willie didn’t throw anybody under the bus that didn’t need it, and Manuel does throw people under the bus, as he’s constantly unsupportive of many players on the team.
Any manager faced with a good young player like Murphy stepping in where everyone else was injured and failing would keep playing him. Willie? Probably would use him _more_ as in, against lefties. Especially once Tatis, who contributed, got hurt.
It always amuses me how…ignorant many fans are here..just because people always say New York fans know better than most, doesn’t mean you.
wow…who’s he thrown under the bus? he’s been critical of the pen, but kept a sense of humor about it too. what has he done specifically that rankles you so much?
What has he done? nothing, and that’s my problem. I find myself boggled by a lot that he does, and while you may say at least he’s playing the young guys, Willie wouldn’t have done that…
He’s so desperate to win approval by doing what he things we think Willie wouldn’t do. Like insistently playing a minor leaguer at second base who hasn’t had a hit in a month and would still be considered a bad hitter if he was a pitcher.
He’s completely overworking the bullpen. Even last night, big lead, Schoeneweis in to ‘close’. I understand ‘no lead is safe’ with this bullpen. But does he really need two guys up there throwing in reserve with only 2 on and 1 out? Yes, he did ultimately bring in Feliciano, but rather than actuallyget these guys constantly warming up and throwing, hasn’t he heard of stalling? taking time going out to the mound to talk, sending Schneider to talk, throwing over to first? This buys warm up time too, and allows you to make the decision later, without tiring guys out by having everyone throwing every day.
The point of the Lennon article is that the Mets are less tight this September than last, and Manuel obviously has at least something to do with that. He’s also established a better relationship with the media than Willie had. That’s actually important. It keeps a lot of the stress and scrutiny off the players.
I think that, over the course of a long season, these things may be of equal or greater importance than the in-game strategic issues. I’m not saying that Manuel is a great manager in all respects, but there’s no sense in overlooking the things he obviously *has* done well.
Frankly, it’s not clear who is the archetypical “great manager” that you wish Manuel was. Scioscia and Piniella are very good. The great Leyland and Bobby Cox haven’t looked like great managers this year. All the others have their ups and downs.
He’s so desparate to win approval by doing things he we think Willie wouldn’t do- Yeah, like win ball games. You may not like him, but to call him flat out a bad manager when he took a team that was under .500 for about half the year and went 51-32 since is crazy.
I know you didn’t answer this the first time you were asked, but who exactly has he thrown under the bus?
In regards to Murphy, yeah I think Tatis getting injured would have forced Willie’s hand to play him at this point, but Murphy was going to be the starter against righties anyway, and I have my doubts that he would have been under Willie.
Who exactly has he called the closer and not used as the closer? The only one I remember him saying this about is Ayala and he has been used in every save situation since.
With Schoenweis yesterday, how could you possibly have wanted to keep him in? He could only get 1 of 3 guys out who were all hitting around .200 or below, including 2 terrible hitting lefties. In case you haven’t noticed, our bullpen has given up a few games lately and while it would be nice to see someone work through an inning when he’s struggling, we can’t afford to risk it right now. This is not the time of year you worry about having one guy take one for the team so that the rest of the pen can stay fresh. Look what happened to the Brewers yesterday…
Two things.
One, Ceetar you need to hop on some facts because fact is Manuel is on pace this month to use the bullpen less than any other month in the season, AND since he took over their work load has gone down every month.
Two, no way on Earth Willie Randolph has Daniel Murphy in the lineup, because for starters Randolph would have played Endy Chavez and Marlon Anderson over Murphy.
Manuel is not the second coming of Jesus, but get over it, Willie is gone, he was fired and the facts lay before us all right now. The Mets had lost direction under Willie and when he was canned nobody thought the Mets would be even in position to blow a division or a wild card chance.
When i told Ceetar to get over the Willie firing a month ago, he said he did, but clearly he is still seething, and the fact that Willie was under .500 with an easier strength of schedule and Manuel took the same team to a 62% win rate — well, he is obviously seething even more now. All Ceetar ever posts or writes about is how Manuel stinks and Willie was great, but the facts are that Manuel took Willie’s mess and cleaned it up, and you can name any other factor that contributed to it and try to disprove it has Manuel’s fingerprints on it, but you cannot deny the facts. The team that lost with Willie is winning with Jerry.
I agree for the most part, Manuel didn’t really have any other choice but to start playing Murphy. Pretty much everyone else was injured.
He had Endy, who was actually playing quite well for a two month stretch.
Castillo? Is that you?
Not to mention the Mets record is much a reflection of the very favorable scheduled they have in the second half of the season. They got all the tough road trips out of the way in the first half and one could project that the Mets would have a much better second half due to the home games and close travel.
The emergence of Delgado and others has to be attributed to Manual in at least some ways. And the life of the team sure didnt seem like it was going to ever get started under Willie, so we have to give him credit for lightening the mood and energizing the clubhouse.
Are we sure the firing of Willie itself isn’t what lightened the mood. i would think the media frenzy surrounding every move Willie made and the constant questions about how long he would last as manager didn’t help the team at all.
Of course that had a lot to do with it. That is why I changed my mind on Willie being fired. I saw that he was it was hurting the team just him being there. Even though a manager’s impact is overrated, their major role is chemistry and it was not going to happen this year with Willie.
Huh??? Willie would use Murphy more???? What are you basing this on?
Like the way he adapted the Wright being our best hitter yet still kept him down in the lineup?
Willie was like Kevin Bacon in Animal House screaming “all is well” as the crowd stampedes over him.
Don’t worry about this “Ceetar” guy. I’ve never seen a fan as single-mindedly focused on validating his opinion in the face of contrary facts. We have no idea why he’s such an ardent Randolph supporter or Manuel detractor, but it’s probably not worth worrying about. Manuel could be in a ticker-tape parade after winning the World Series, and “Ceetar” would criticize his posture.
That is because Ceetar is none other than Willie Randolph himself….
I do not doubt some sort of relationship.
i like that he’s honest to the media…doesnt talk in a condesending yankee tone…he actually sticks up for his players and gets thrown out (which is not overrated willie)…and most important he is not stubborn.
if something isnt working…he tries changing things up. if a guy is hitting the ball, he keeps him in the lineup. him and willie were handcuffed in terms of options in the bullpen…but i think defined roles in the pen is beneficial, that is if we had players good enough to be put in a role.
Gotta give credit to manuel if anything for bringing a looser atmosphere to the clubhouse. We debate every day about the mentality of the collapse on the players, coaches etc and heres manuel who doesnt sugar coat anything. He admits “the collapse happened and we will have to deal with that all month”. I dont think willie ever brought that up in that way. Manuel has them loose and we have seen the results from day one of his regieme(spl).
Yes, the looseness is a good thing. I heard a Wright quote last week comparing Jerry and Willie and he said Willie was all business and Jerry likes to joke around and keep things loose, and then Wright finished by saying “I’m not saying one is better than the other” Of course you were Dave. Nice try.
The bats better keep their pace up against Jo-Jo tonight. Would taking two of three be acceptable this weekend?
I’ll take any combination of 9 Mets win and Milwaukee losses thank you…
Yeah I think the Brew Crew is about done …. the wild card would be ok playoffs are playoffs but I want the Mets to go after the divsion …. I rather play LA in the first round then the cubs …. and of course divsion title shuts up the phillies fans …. Mets vs Phillies in NLCS would be pretty insane …. right up there with Boston Yankees I think.
Yeah, I would LOVE to see this team play the Phillies in the NLCS. I’ll take the Devil you know, and the Mets really have the Phillies number this season, especially with Ollie and Santana doubling up.
Oh, and Jerry Manuel is not a Yankee…
This weekend, I think we’re due for three great games from David Wright. Wright’s pattern for the entire season has been to have 3-4 great games followed by 3-4 awful games. Repeat. Since he just had 4 awful games, he’s due for 3 great games.
there is no question though that willie had lost trust in the clubhouse. he was the same guy in may that was managing in September…and the players felt it.
if a horse brakes its leg, they dont keep putting him in races to compete..they cut their losses and either let him become a pimp or just put him out back with a gun to his head.
how awesome must life be for stud race horses. Win a few races and then retire to a farm where people pay thousands of dollars for you to get it on with their female horses. If I die, I wanna come back as Secratariat…
I’ve gotta say again: I was an ardent willie supporter, and thought he should’ve lasted the season (and they’d all go down on the same sinking ship). Boy was I wrong. Manuel really has made a difference, not just for the team, but for us. I’m on board for re-signing him.
It’s not fair because I think he has done all he can do but if we don’t make the playoffs we should start fresh with an entirely new coaching staff.
I agree. If they don’t make the playoffs, unfortunately, Jerry can’t come back.
That’s true. But you really have to be impressed how he has managed to keep the team at the top (or close to it) with arguably the worst BP in baseball. That alone and in itself is amazing to me. I know you’re (or were) a big Willie supporter and there’s nothing wrong with that, but do you honestly think Willie would have this team 0.5 game out of first with this BP, Maine going down, Church going down, Wagner lost for the season? Not too mentioned I doubt we would have seen much of Murphy or Evans with Willie.
Can’t agree there. Manuel has displayed good gameday strategy, superior communication with the team and the media, and despite all the woes this team had, he has managed to make this team a cohesive and united unit.
Whether or not they make it to the playoffs, Jerry has earned an extesion.
Good point there, I tend to agree. I even think Manuel has had MORE adversity than Willie and has managed to keep this team right up there inspite of it all.
testing
retesting
real, I rteplied a million times, but something is apparently offensive to the censor-bot.
I still have absolutely no idea why the media is still using the word collapse to describe this postseason chase. Not only were we in second place for most of the season but the biggest lead we had was 4.5 games. Where is this collapse coming from?
Not to mention the team’s playing .600 ball in September. The media likes to make stuff up to sell newspapers, etc.
Beating the collapse to death sells newspapers. This is nothing like 2007. We all know it, since we watch the games. I swear these guys who sell newspapers watch like 2 innings of it and then write on how the Mets are still the same.
exactly. The Mets are actually playing pretty well down the stretch, the Phillies are just playing better. As much as it pains me to say this, if the Phillies win the division this time around, it’s because they earned it, not because we collapsed.
You know they actually did earn it last season too. Yes we had to fall apart but they had to play .800 baseball to make it happen.
There’s a reason why Willie could never get a manager position in, what, 12 attempts?
lol you think Willie is cheering for against the Mets to make the playoffs lol
Probably not because that’ll make him look pretty bad.
Although he will be celebrated as a Yankee hero Sunday night a they close that rat’s nest in tehe Bronx…
Let him enjoy the festivities. Maybe he’ll be offered a job after Girardi gets booted to the curb after they fail to make the playoffs for a second consecutive year.
my guess is he’s cheering wildly against the mets…i mean, his actions as met manager were never in the best interest of the team’s chances of winning… (LOL)
you know whats funny here….its amazing how soon we forget….willie needed to go when he did as he lost the clubhouse…but to say he was awful….i do believe he did manage us to within one out of the WS? not too shabby….he had us in contention the following year as well…now i like manuel’s style better, but until he takes us to the playoffs and wins the NL pennant….sorry guys he is no better than willie….it really is funny how soon we all forget
I agree I think it was the fact that the Mets should have had a sweep against Atlanta at home or at least 2 out of 3 but instead lost 2 out of three and then opened up with 2 loses to Washington … I would not think of it as a collapse …. for me I was thinking oh god here we go again we were up for in the lost column with 17 to go and Bam just like that the we are tied with the Phillies in the lost column and are not playing good while the Phillies are playing good ball down the stretch. Hopefully these last two wins will get us going …. Mets I feel need at least 2 out of three in Atlanta … Florida is playing good I don’t see the Phillies sweeping them.
Phillies are due for a lull soon. When that happens, we could blow past them by a game or so. I could very easily envision a tie at the end which would be just fine.
I agree – this season is nothing like last season. 2007 we started off with a bang then faltered all throughout the season. Each win we had was brief respite – like ~whew~ glad we won that, when the team lost like 3 or 4 preceding. 2008 – start off slow, rise to the top, tie for first, end up in first, going back and forth most of the season. We should be thrilled to have this kind of thing going on — we need to forget 2006 ever happened, move on from 2007, and enjoy 2008 for as long as it goes.
Gotta love Jerry’s candor. He says what the fans want to hear. I’m sure some time next season, Omar or another igher up will take offense to something Jerry says and suddenly being open and honest will be a problem, but til then GO Jerry.
51-32. This guy better be in the dugout next year.
By the way, if the Mets and Phillies end up with the same record, and both are ahead of the Brewers/Astros/Marlins for the Wild Card, the Mets win the division based on head-to-head, right?
Not sure. They should at least get home field in a one game playoff. I don’t think baseball uses the Football system of head to head. Good question.
Yeah a phillies mets tie means no playoff game Mets win the division, Jerry has been great but even if you don’t agree its playoffs or bust for him I think. I don’t really agree with that but I think that is why he has not gotten a contract yet.
Yeah, it’s a catch 22 for the Mets. I’msure they’re just waiting around to see what actually happens. If they make the playoffs, they have no choice but to sign him for next season. Also, the Mets (Wilpons) are rolling the dice. If Manuel does lead this team to the post season and dare I say? make it all the way to the WS, and dare I say it again? Win the WS, his new contract will almost tripple! The Mets know they could sign him now for a lot less than it would take if the Mets actually make it far into the post season. But no matter how you slice it, it’s still a good situation for the Mets and Manuel.
i think they can afford it…its not like the contract would go from 3 million a year to 9 million….
I don’t really understand that. It’s not like he had the whole season to work with, his team was 6 back when he took over. That’s a tough hole to work out of, and he very nearly has done it. Right now the Phillies are on fire, but the Mets haven’t been playing poorly outside of the first 2 Nats games (they should have won both Braves games, that was on the BP) in September. I don’t think the playoffs should have anything to do with keeping him. I’m pretty sure the Mets have the best record in the NL since he was hired…how is that not enough?
Because from the Mets point of view (and most fans) anything less than making the playoffs this season would be considered a complete failure, especially after the Santana signing. Fair or not to Manuel (and I agree Manuel has done enough to earn a return) that’s the way it will be judged.
I’m saying that’s ridiculous. If we don’t make the playoffs this year, it’s Willie’s fault, not Manuel’s. Any fan who doesn’t recognize that should be a Yankees fan. Willie already got fired, so why is Manuel’s head gonna roll for Willie’s failure?
so we were up by 3.5 games a week ago and you would blame willie for not making the playoffs? that makes no sense at all, but i guess that pretty common around here
The real collapse was the last week of last season when they lost 6 out of 7 at home and looked dreadful doing it. Got swept by the Nats, lost a makeup game to a Cards team that didn’t want to be there and lost 2 out of 3 to the Marlins. They were still up 2 1/2 games going into the last week at home.
BTW, the largest lead this season has been 3 1/2 games and that was last Wednesday.
Yeah, that’s not a “collapse” by any stretch of the word. The “C” word is thrown around to losely these days when it comes to the Mets. What this really is , is a good Ole fashion pennant race, that’s it.
Omar, please do the right thing and give this guy a 2 yr contract.. He has earned it!
I like Manuel and agree that he’s so much more personable and better with the media than Willie was.
Having said that, if Manuel had been the manager in 2007, I don’t think the outcome would have been any different.
I agree 100%.
You might not “think the outcome would have been any different”, but there really isn’t anyway to know that for sure? I mean we’re only talking about a one game swing here, I mean really. You don’t think Manuel could have made a difference of ONE game? Yeah sure, he could have possibly done even worse, But my gut feeling is he would have figgured out how to win just one more game.
My gut says he wouldn’t.
Tom Glavine agrees with Gina and AH the 3rd…
My gut feeling is the pen in 2007 might have done WORSE under Manuel as I don’t think there is any way he could have mixed and matched with the 2007 relievers the way he likes to do now.
For one thing, there was no Ayala, Stokes, Parnell to help out the pen down the stretch in 2007. There was no one really. Second, there was also no Niese and Knight, two very serviceable emergency starters. Willie had ZERO serviceable emergency starters last year.
But most important, Willie didn’t have Santana down the stretch. Even the Santana Willie had during the first part of 2008 was not as effective as the one the Mets have now because Santana as we all know is a 2nd half pitcher.
That’s fine, and you’re entitled Gina. But by saying that, you’re making an indictment on Manuel that he’s no better than Willie by even just one game. You’re basically saying that without coming right out and saying it. You, TheReal and I think also Slider (I already know the Willie Apologists on this blog by heart) are just staunch Willie supporters (again, nothing wrong with that) but your opinions are ALWAYS skewed in one direction which is why I wouldn’t expect anything else but for you to go against anything Manuel accomplishes this year. I will go as far to say that even if Manuel leads this team to the WS, you guys will still think he’s not in Willie’s league. Just an observation from reading all your comments. But you guys are one of the better posters on here so I value your opinions anyway even though we are very far apart on the Willie/Manuel front. Good baseball talk though.
Umm I think you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. I don’t think any of us give a damn about Willie. I know I don’t I thought he deserved to be fired. I just don’t think Manuel is any better than him. As far as I’m concerned their about even in managing skills and we should, in theory at least, be able to do much better.
I will I do think Manuel isn’t a game better than Willie that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying what happened last year had little to nothing to do with who was or wasn’t the manager. Really I think it’s hard to say any manager can=more or less wins. Maybe you can say a better pitching coach/hitting coach/ third base coach and manager equal at some point more runs for us or less runs for the other team which could result in more wins but that’s about it.
Point taken. And I don’t know about doing better “In theory” with this BP. Where we differ is on the point of Manuel not being “Any better” than Willie. I personally prefer manuel’s style of managing over Willie’s, and I’m sure if we took a poll (for what polls are worth) I’m sure it would be something like 80% 0 20% in favor of Manuel over Willie. But, Polls are not scientific so take with a grain of salt. But what is relavent is fan perception (right or wrong). I think your strongest point on Willie is that he didn’t have Santana last year, there is where you make me second guess myself about manuel.
Personally, I’m a supporter of BOTH Willie and Manuel. Both are good managers. But neither are brilliant strategists, and neither likes to play small ball. (Will we ever see a squeeez or suicide squeeze from Manuel? Ever???)
I think the bullpen last year was just so crappy that it was too much to overcome for most managers.
If Manuel manages the Mets to a 1 or 2 game lead or deficit in terms of the NL title, then I think that’s proof that he’s not much better, if at all, than Willie. Because that’s essentially what Willie did last year and he didn’t have as good a team down the stretch as Manuel does now.
I do believe a manager can make at least a ONE game difference in the standing. That’s not really much at all. Bottom line, you need the horses to win (Joe Torre with the Mets? ) but One game a manager can make a difference by playing different hunches and using different players in different game situations.
Well I meant do better as far as manager not wins currently win this team. I agree with FAH in that I don’t think Willie or Manuel are very good in game strategists.
I’m sure it would be something like 80% 0 20% in favor of Manuel over Willie.
x-man, I guarantee you if the Mets were to fall short of the division title & the wildcard weren’t in play and you then did a poll to ask if Manuel made a difference in managing, then a majority of ans would say no.
Their perception will be colored by the outcome, either way.
I like Manuel a whole lot better than Willie as a person, but I don’t think he’s a big difference maker for this team compared to Willie in terms of its outcome.
“… a majority of fans…”
Agree 100% Isn’t it always about the bottom. If you win, then you’re a hero, if you lose, you’re a goat. We wouldn’t be having this conversation if Willie could have figgured out how to win ONE MORE game last year. And despite the horrible BP, I also believe if Willie had managed to make the playoffs last year, the Mets would have gone farther than Phillie did!!
I do believe a manager can make at least a ONE game difference in the standing.
Agree. But there’s no way one can ever prove that, one way or another.
***Bottom line
Hey X-man, just because I disagree with you on everything else don’t just lump me in. I was for firing Willie just as most were. However, where I differed was the reasoning. I did not think he was a bad manager. I don’t think manager’s effect the game that much NORMALLY. However, because of our struggles and constant media pressure I think it got into our players and Willie’s head. Thus there was always negativity around the team and that had to be gotten rid of. I like Manual and think he prob. is a better in game manager because of experience but both lack in that department. Manuel has a more lose approach. I think it’s because he has already been fired and rose from the ashes to become manager again. Maybe that will be Willie one day.
I think the first nearly 70 games under Randolph this year are an indictment on his ability to relate to his players when he was Met manager.
He saw things as far too black and white and that burned him.
Does not mean Manuel is the greatest manager to surface in the history of baseball, but he had the ability to not create a grand facade.
I was always a Willie supporter, but he clearly lost the ship, and it might have gone as far back as game 7 of the 2006 NLCS if not simply over all the series.
If he had “lost the ship” prior to game 7 of the ‘06 NLCS, I doubt they would have gotten that far.
When you think of it, it’s amazing they got that far without El Duque and Pedro.
You are missing my point FAH3, I think that was the beginning point. There were some curious events in that series, not least of which was having Wagner start the 9th inning of game 2, but not the 9th inning of game 7.
I am not saying that the things that happened in that series did anything more than begin the process.
When you say he clearly lost the ship and that it might have gone as far back as game 7, “if not simply over all the series” it sounds like you are saying he lost the ship perhaps during that series.
At any rate, I don’t see any evidence of it. And you would agree.
As far as anything happening in that series that directly precipitated him “losing” the club later on, that is highly speculative and I would also disagree. The idea that he “lost the club” as opposed to losing just Delgado in itself is also highly debatable.
Well, as usual, the managers are always the Scape Goats when things go wrong. In reality, most failures are rarely actually solely (if at all) the manager’s fault. The organization and specifically the GM (who puts the team together) should take the harded hit for failures. But, you don’t win games on paper.
Injuries of course are a big part of the whole pictuer.
without question, but in the game for the last 15-20 years when the players began getting far more money than ever before one of the most difficult jobs is managing the ego carousel.
I liked Randolph but it is evident, not in where Manuel is now, but where Randolph was that he had lost all ability to relate to his squad.
And by the time it got to SNY positioning him in a bad light, he had lost all sight of the entire picture.
ummm…no…its the players fault….im not sure, but dont they play the games?
The bullpen ma-nage-ment by Manuel is a big concern. For example, last night he used Smith for the 3rd day in a row even though they had a 5-run lead. Not only is he risking his health, but if there’s a close game tonight in Atlanta, that means Smith will be less capable of pitching at optimum strength. Another example is when he used Ayala in the 9th inning of the second game Saturday even though there was a 5-run lead. Then he called on Ayala the next day less than 24 hours later, and Ayala gave up the lead. IMO, Manuel very likely cost the Mets a game that day. That’s why I can’t say he would have been any better than Willie last year. And again, I’m worried that he could endanger the health of guys like Pelfrey and Smith.
this is the first post I’ve seen directly citing his usage, and you’re right…bad moves. I know he’s desperate and all, but dulling the sharper knives in the drawer isn’t going to help.
This is where I think Peterson might have stepped in. He was much more protective of the relievers’ workloads than Manuel-Wharthen have been. If it had been a close game last night that’s a different matter, but you can’t be bringing Smith in after he’s worked 2 consecutive days when there’s a 5-run lead.
Well, I’ve tried responding to your comment like 4 times and still not posting. So frustrating! LOL If you see it come through in triplicate, you know why.
yeah, the censor seems to be on high alert today. I tried 10 times to post something on another thread, with nothing in the least offensive (not even a word with a-s-s in it).
Do you know among the innocuous words you CANNOT use is:
man-age-ment?
che-ese?
as-sume?
Grif-fey?
religion?
Oh, you can write “religion” now, but that tripped up one of my posts in the past.
At any rate, check for some of those innocuous words. If it’s not one of them, it’s probably another in which case you just have to test.
I eliminated almost every word until the post made no sense…seriously, a collection of
words…together…this…
This censorbot hath gone too far
You have to realize that when you have to manage by “BP By Committee” you are setting yourself up for second guessing. It’s almost IMPOSIBLE to be right ALL the time when you don’t have “Defined” rolls with a Legit set-up man and a “True” closer. In my opinion, the fact that we are only .05 games out of first with this BP is enough for me to give Manuel a break. We all can sit here and play Monday morning QB, but it’s not as easy as we think especially in In Game situations where you have to make a quick decision one way or the other.
Finally! LOL I was using the word “pas with two s’s go I had to change it to “Break” Unbelievable! they are sooooooooo anal.
That’s too funny. I can use the word “anal”, but I’m not allowed to use the word “pas” with two s’s! How ridiculous is that? LOL
Sorry x-man, but when you have a 5-run lead in the 9th, you don’t use your closer or one of your few reliable relievers unless there’s a day off the next day or it’s like a WS game or something and you are truly desperate.
I am not second guessing by saying NOW that his using Smith 3 days in a row could come back to bite the team with 1) a loss tonight to the Braves or 2) arm/shoulder issues with Joe Smith.
And as soon as he put Ayala in that second game Saturday I questioned it. It was a poor move.
Also, x-man, at the time he used Ayala with that 5-run lead, Parnell and Rincon hadn’t thrown a single pitch for the Mets yet. That would have been a perfect time to try them out.
As for last night, Parnell could have started that 9th inning. And if he got in trouble, then bring someone else in.
Now, if there’s a tight game tonight, he probably can’t go to Smith.
I’m not disagreeing with you on Manuel’s managing of the BP. I too question allot of his moves. I would also think the Pitching Coach should have some imput or say as to when and how to use the relievers? I think Manuel goes too much by “Gut” feeling instead of going by the “Book”. If he goes by the book, then he’s critized for it, if he goes by gut, he’s critized also. With that said, I have to agree with you that managing a BP is not his strong suit. He does a much better job with the line-up and from an offensive stand point.
**Criticized ** have to type too fast @ work.