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In case you missed it, last night on ESPN.com, Buster Olney reporters 
that the Mets have given Mets GM Omar Minaya a four-year contract extension.
Olney added, “The deal is all but done, but it is not known when the extension will be formally announced.”
From what I can gather, neither the team nor Minaya’s agent will confirm or deny the report.
However, according to Jon Heyman at SI.com, “An official announcement is not expected until after the season.”
Like I wrote last night, I’m neither for or against Minaya. I like him. I do not deny his strengths. However, like I expressed in June, I worry that he may be unable to adjust to a changing market in baseball. Point is, I was not prepared to cast judgment on his time in charge, because I had hoped to wait and see how this season ends.
I’m not saying that if the Mets fail to make the post-season, I would have fired him. I may still have wanted him back. The thing is, like I wrote last night, “If the Mets are unable to make the post-season, this team is going to suffer a serious reaction from a fanbase that I sense is ready to boil over…To me, it may have been more wise to just wait and see how best to react to the reaction, so to speak.”
Nevertheless, what’s done is done. I am fine with knowing that Minaya will be back, but I hope, like a good manager, he is wise enough to acknowledge the changing way that baseball is doing business in the market place, and in scouting, and I hope he adjusts accordingly – or, at minimum, was charged with a slightly different goal and plan than he has been on in the past.
Like I wrote in June, if he can make these adjustments, and continue to lean on his strengths, I believe he can get this team to where it needs to be.
In a column for Newsday, Ken Davidoff takes a look at Minaya’s best and worst transactions while GM of the Mets, a list that is headed by the acquisition of Johan Santana.
…Update…1:15 pm…
To read my post from June, which I reference above, click here.
Fair enough, but while everyone bemoaned the notion that guys like Evans, Murphy, Niese, Carp, Parnell and Kunz had any real cache, here we are and despite Niese’s bum start this Monday, one could argue his game against the Braves is the cushion the Mets have right now with 5 games left.
And without question Daniel Murphy and Evans have made fundamental contributions to the picture.
one could also argue that the reason we care about that one game cushion is because the same bullpen that failed us repeatedly last year is failing us repeatedly this year
Yeah..they should’ve released Mota and Sosa and Sele and Wagner.
It is not the same bullpen though.
Heilman has been a disaster this year, whereas last year he was still effective.
Wagner went down this year, whereas last year he missed a weekend in September.
Sanchez was giving quality innings early and then got hit in the leg and seemingly could not get an out.
The bullpen blows, imagine if Minaya did not snag Brian Stokes, Ricardo Rincon and Luis Ayala?
The bullpen last year was rock solid until mid August and the starting pitchers lack of ability to go past 5.2 innings caught up with them.
So the bullpen has been a disaster all year this year, I know that, you know that and Minaya knows that, but knowing it does not mean the Yankees are going to hand you Mariano Rivera and the A’s hand you Huston Street.
The true moment of upheaval came when Wagner was not coming back post trading deadline. I am sure if an ace closer cleared waivers the Mets would have had interest.
on july 30th, were you content with this bullpen? i wasn’t.
We are an organization that awards mediocracy. This move should have been made after the season. Boggles my mind.
What the F is “mediocracy’?
Rule by the middle.
Eh. I don’t know how I feel about this. I agree that I don’t know if he can adjust to the changing market. But considering our recent track record with gms who knows who else the wilpons might bring in if he was fired. I just feel like 4 years is to much, unless they’re willing to eat the last 2 years of the contract if we don’t show some sort of marked improvement over the next 2 years. And I’m not sure he deserved this kind of vote of confidence.
I think it is a vote of confidence in saying that we like what this team is, but that they won’t announce it until Tuesday (in my opinion) is also saying that while we believe in you, the fans will need a scapegoat and we may tear this up before the last t is crossed.
Can they do that? I would think it’s official even though it hasn’t been announced.
Well, Gina, I think the Wilpons could say “Great, you agree to the parameters of this deal… we aren’t signing it until Tuesday.” In fact, that’s how I’ve read this entire saga… it seems like they have “agreed to terms,” which means that IF both parties decide to go forward with an agreement they have finished their negotiations.
what hasn’t he recognized? sure, he’s signed some old players, but for the most part for limited roles…he hasn’t given any crazy bad contracts but for one (we all know who that is).
he was one of the first gms to recognize that signing certain pre-arb guys long term and buying out their arb years and getting them for relatively cheap in their prime was preferable to saving money in the near term only to spend more in the long.
Omar doesn’t get NEARLY enough credit for the Wright and Reyes deals. He saved the Mets millions upon millions of dollars that they can reinvest because of those moves.
it is absolutely insane that jerry’s job is up in the air while omar’s is secure for four years
Unless Manuel brings in Aaron Heilman to close the lead that puts the Mets into the playoffs, he is going to be offered a deal.
Now is not the time to sit down with a manager and his agent to discuss the length of a deal.
I disagree. Do you want Manuel pushing our pitchers too hard (see Santana, Pelf, Maine…) and mortgaging the future of the organization in order to save his job.?
If he was ready to mortgage the future Santana would have thrown 170 pitches his last five starts, Peflrey would lead the league in complete games and Maine would never have been allowed to admit his pain to the training staff.
I am sure his sit down with Mr. Wilpon yesterday probably covered the idea of do what you need to do to get in this next 6 games.
The Mets never do anything the right way.
He’s made some good moves and some bad but big picture is we have been a good team ever since he has been GM. I believe continuity in the front office is a big key to long term success for a franchise. hopefully Omar can now take us to the next level.
Any front office changes with Tony Bernazard getting more power will be a detriment to the team.
I don’t like the idea of gauging fan reaction at the end of the season and tying that to Omar’s fate. That’s letting the inmates run the asylum.
The Wilpon’s know what they expect of Omar and what his true plan was when he initially took over. They should grade him on that and respond accordingly.
Considering where we were, and where we are, I’m happy with the extension. I like the idea of a little consistancy in the front office and feel that will gravitate down to the field.
agree wholeheartedly. We have, since Omar took over, been relevant, and contenders. My brother-in-law, half teasingly, left me a message Monday night, asking whether it’s better to root for a team that you know stinks, or to be a contender and fold down the stretch.
As we all know, the Mets have been both, recently…and it’s far, far better to root for a team that’s at least in the hunt til the end of the season. Even though the results of last year were for me as a Mets fan TERRIBLE, as a baseball fan I loved it. Every single game counted til the very end. That’s much more fun than being out of it in August. Same thing this year: after Willie got fired in June, I gave up all expectation for the season. Too much drama, not enough outfielders, and fourth place in the division. Since then, climbing back into it and basically being neck and neck for the last 5 games of the year is awesome. It’ll stink if they don’t get in, but it’s been a fun and interesting season. And even in 05 they were in it til Sept. Omar’s a huge reason for this, mistakes and all.
I’m encouraged with Minaya’s extension. But I am confused when people talk about Omar’s ability to adjust to a changing baseball environment.
What BIG changes are going on in baseball today that you feel he cannot adjust to?
I think they are referring to how GMs used to dump piles of money at the feet of ancient stars past their prime. The theory is that steroids let old timers like Clemens be good way past when they should have been.
Now the focus seems to be on stockpiling good young players, and locking them up early to long term deals. Without steroids, old players are suddenly looking their ages.
Given the Mets farm system is the laughingstock of MLB, I think Omar still views his job as dumping the Wilpon’s money on old free agents.
“the laughingstock of baseball”……really? if by laughing you mean “hahhaha we got johan and no one else does!” or “haha mike pelfrey has a sub 3 era since june” or “tee hee dan murphy gets another pinch hit in the clutch” or “jon neise went 8 innings of shut out ball in his 2nd start at age 21 har har har” or “wilmer flores is 17 and is the best prospect around he he he” or “fernando martinez got the most wows at the all star futures game chuckle chuckle” then yes I would agree with you. Happiness over our young kids does make me giggle too.
I like our laughingstock.
Wilmer Flores is a BEAST…watch out.
that, mm22, was a very funny post
Mex, the Mets farm system isn’t a laughingstock. I think it is widely regarded as having talent, albeit at the lower levels. While our top levels of minors are a bit barren of top-tier, blue-chip talent, our low ranks are looked at with much more optimism…including guys such as Havens, Holt, Pena, Flores, Tejeda, Moviel and a number of others.
Unfortunately, the few years since Minaya took over were spent signing FA like Beltran, Pedro, etc. As a result, the Mets were stripped of their first round pick a few successive years. That (lack of) high draft choices is coming home to roost at the top levels of the minor leagues… college players drafted in 05 and 06 would likely be AA, AAA players this year.
very true on the draft picks…
The Pedro signing was a big boost to the farm system however…w/o him, there would be no Fmart and no Deolis Guerra, and many other latin prospects we don’t even know yet. Obviously w/o Guerra or Fmart, we would not have Johan (I say both b/c the Twins would’ve liked both or either one)
Thanks, Starz!
You raise a good point too that I forgot to mention… part of the reason the top tiers are so barren is that Mulvey, Guerra, Humber and Gomez were sent for Johan. Mulvey and Humber would likely have been at AAA, and while they aren’t world beaters, they would have helped the *perception* of being a laughingstock. Guerra would have started at high A and moved to AA in all likelihood. Gomez would have started the year in AAA and been promoted when Alou, Pagan, Church etc. went down. That trade did a lot to damage the perception of depth in the system.
You said it before though…we have alot more talent in the lower levels of our farm system rather than near ML-ready level…Yes Evans and Murphy have helped big time this year, but both started in AA this year. Our more “established” prospects went to MIN in the Johan trade.
The inexperience of our prospects has created the perception of our “barren” farm system.
Niese could use some more time, same with Kunz. And we had a pretty decent draft this year, with those players having playing in single-A.
It just took time for new players to step up and make a name for themselves and fill the public voids that were created by the Johan deal.
Do you guys really think that Omar doesn’t realize that spending money on old fading stars is unwise?
His worst move (Castillo) was on a 31 year old former gold glove .375OBP player. He didn’t spend the $$ on an old player; he spent it on a chronically hurt one (very unwise).
I have actually seen the Mets put alot of emphasis on the minor league system. The Latino kids have HUGE upsides and he went after colledge kids in this year’s draft who can contribute in the next few years.
As for his other free agent ssignings, salary dumps and trades for “soon to be free agents”; I thought those have been pretty good (Beltran, Delgado, Martinez, Wagner).
I just don’t like the timing of this deal…why leak it to the press now? very poor timing.
gary theorized during the game last night that it was designed to draw some media heat off the team and onto the FO.
thats an interesting point…but I think the potential downside outweighs the brief change of focus…Like Matt said, if we don’t make it (knock on wood…yes I do that) there will be a heavy backlash at Omar, whether its warranted or not.
I like having Omar at the helm…as an above poster mentioned, Omar has fostered winning teams, and having that continuity is important. The guy clearly has an eye for talent, rebuilding our pitching staff in essentially two years. Sure he has had his duds, but the he has made so many moves that have had a positive impact on this team.
He is also beginning to build up the farm system. We have seen what guys like Murphy and Evans have been able to do, but we are also starting to see some traction with his international signees. We all know about F-Mart, but in the lower levels we also have Jeffrey Marte, a power hitting 17 yr old, who put up a similar statline to that of Wilmer Flores, another young phenom. Brad Holt has done nothing but impress as well, in his stint in Brooklyn.
Despite his shortcomings, Omar has put the team on the right track, and with his keen eye (in addition to a hefty payroll), he will keep the Mets relevant for a long time to come.
I think stability is a good thing. I think Omar’s best skill is finding hidden talent. Maine, Perez, Duaner (pre-injury), Church, Murph, Pelfrey, all of these guys have been the epitome of “pleasant suprises”……And I can’t believe they are all just fortunate accidents. Keep in mind Omar also was responsible for Jose Reyes, as it was Omar who signed him when he was head of international scouting. Where Omar lacks is in his free agency signings. Pedro may have turned this thing around, but as far as his performance, he’s been awful. Alou played well but is a walking infirmary. Castillo is the biggest disaster, with Scott Scho next. And for all of Billy Wagner’s exciting saves, he is so unclutch it isn’t even funny. Beltran has been good, but not a superstar.
Mets day with Francesca this afternoon. The Jacket in studio at 3pm. Minaya on the phone at 4pm. Jerry in his usual spot at 5pm.
the jacket jacket? have we heard from him once post- tuscan tile?
Yes, Mr. Jacket himself. Should be an interesting listen.
I love how the two NY GMs have the largest payrolls in their leagues, neither one can even win their division, let alone the playoffs, and they are both probably re-signing for long term deals.
What a pair of geniuses, definitely don’t let them get away!
Propose your solution instead of just your complaint.
GM’s in this market are damned if they do, damned if they dont.
If they do not get the ownership to spend money they cheap and stupid. If they do they are just lucky and have their pockets lined.
You know why Billy Beane will never leave Oakland?
Because that way he never has to deal with the pressure of actually signing free agents and keeping players long term. Win he wins he is seen as a financial wizard, when he loses, poor Billy he just does not have the payroll.
I wish Matt would clarify what he means by “the changing way baseball is doing business in the marketplace.”
What exactly is meant by that? I acknowledge that the business is constantly changing, but what specifically does he worry Minaya won’t adapt to?
Post-steroid era. Old players are no longer productive like they were when they were all juicing.
GMs now are all trying to build from the farm, and lock up young stars to long term deals.
Meanwhile, back on Planet Met, Omar signs Castillo for 4 years.
right because Castillo is the picture of a 39 year old has been steroid freak and Minaya did not sign Reyes and Wright to extremely affordable extensions through their arbitration years back in 2006.
In the meantime the farm which everyone mocked as trite is contributing in a huge way to this season.
In the meantime, the team we are playing right now, can you explain why they went after old Jim Edmonds? Or the Dodgers gamble on the circus that is Manny Ramirez, at his age?
Why did the Phillies go and get Matt Stairs after Geoff Jenkins?
Why did the Tampa Bay Rays bring in the likes of Cliff Floyd and Troy Percevil.
You can dissect and debate every deal and signing to death.
The job of a GM is to maximize the team’s success for the money he has to work with.
If the Mets payroll was $20 million, and they were contending, then Omar is a genius.
It’s not. The Mets have the highest payroll in the NL, yet again, and still are obviously nowhere near as talented as other teams with less money to spend.
If you want to evaluate Omar’s success with the biggest payroll in the NL, look for championship banners.
“Nowhere near as talented”
You’re joking, right?
patrick – every last guy you listed is better than castillo, and i don’t think any one of them is signed through this year
Do you think we’re as talented as the Rays?
Mex, I’m not sure I agree with your “steroid” insinuation. Bottom line is, GM’s were throwing money at ANY player, steroids or not, and the model has changed to locking in younger players that are homegrown and supplementing them with role players.
I think Minaya has seen the change as he locked in Wright and Reyes at quite affordable deals.
I was just stating the conventional wisdom. I wasn’t trying to insinuate anything, other than obviously Bonds and Clemens were chemically enhanced.
Was Omar involved in drafting Wright and Reyes? I don’t know, but I thought not.
And if Minaya has already adapted, why did the Mets have one of the oldest rosters in MLB? Alou? El Duque? Pedro?
You can thank our boy Steve Phillips for Reyes and Wright (he loves to bring it up on baseball tonight).
Yes we had an older roster, but we got El Duque the season after he pitched great on his way to a W.S. ring.
Pedro deal HAD to be made. Alou was a gamble. He could roll out of bed and hit a fastball, just he spent more time in the bed than on his feet.
Omar signed Reyes actually. At the time he was head of international scouting/free agency. He also brought in everybody that was used to get Johan. David Wright was drafted by Steve Phillips in the supplemental round. Our first round pick that year? Aaron Heilman. Oh and Phillips tried to trade Wright more than once.
Wagner was thebest closer on the market at the time and the most established (it was him vs. BJ Ryan)…he also was a huge upgrade over Braden “should be a set-up man” Looper
I don’t think he drafted Wright, but I could be wrong, and I’m not sure about Reyes… but it was Minaya who signed them to decent, long term contracts last year to keep them at a reasonable salary for the next X years.
hmmm…interesting point on Reyes, but Phillips was GM at the time…Omar actually signed him after getting approval from as’st GM Duqutte.
right, but it was Omar’s work that brought him here…..no Omar, no Jose Reyes.
The notion that little stevie “tried” to trade wright
is nonsense. if he wanted to trade him, he would
have.To give omar props for the reyes signing is
likewise nonsense.i’m happy (for the most part)
w/omar as gm BUT lets be honest his ability
to throw away money has helped make his job
a whole lot easier.
The same fans who cast stones at Omar for not doing enough to obtain a reliever are probably the same fans who still lament Kazmir for Zambrano ad nauseum. In affect, isn’t that what you’ve had to have done on order to get a good reliever in here? Give up a top prospect like FMart or Niese in order to get a Street or Fuentes in here. And what if he bombed or decided to leave at the end of the season, you’d be lamenting that trade for the next 5 to 10 years. Sometimes, the best trades are the ones you don’t make.
Remember Billy Taylor for Jason Isringhausen?
Don’t look now, but have you seen Milledge’s numbers lately?
Omar traded him at the absolute lowest point of his value. No excuse for that.
talk to me in a few years if he is actually anything special
That’s true. We won’t know for 2+ years.
Yeah, wow a big 14-60-.270 . This while padding
his #s the last month w/no pressure on him in
games that are meaningless to his team.
He’s not having a great year.
But it’s the Nationals. Games were meaningless halfway through May. That doesn’t mean much.
Minaya held onto Milledge too long without question, but the two players he got back are producing significantly on both sides of the ballgame for the Mets.
as mrose stated..we will not know the true gauge of this trade for a few years time. Tell me this would you like lmillz or church in the OF. Was there any question church outperformed lmillz before he go hurt. I still think minaya did the right move.
It’s not a question of either Milledge or Church. I hated Milledge, I was happy he’s gone. I just wanted as much as possible in return for him, and Omar sold low.
If Milledge was dealt in 2006, we would have gotten back a hell of a lot more than Church for him.
And given the numbers Milledge is starting to put up, the Nats could deal Milledge for a hell of a lot more than Church at the end of 2008.
Is there really any argument that Milledge’s lowest ever trade value was at the end of 2007? That’s all I’m saying. Not that I don’t like Church, or that I love Milledge.
Have you ever heard the saying “hindsight is 20/20″?
not many met fans have nightlife
Please, Mex, just stop now.
I love watching Milledge play CF…its like he’s playing in the Polo grounds.
Excellent kd bart!
Or the Red Sox trading David Murphy + 2 other prospects, for Eric Gagne
Brian Fuentes…feh.
And I’d have to believe that perhaps for Huston Street, had it been known prior to the non-waiver deadline that Wagner would b done might have been attractive, and yet if Beane wanted Pelfrey and Martinez for Joe Blanton, why does anyone think he would have handed Street over for anything less?
Remember when some folks went batty about Minaya not landing Barry Zito?
The other GMs know the situation you face and try to hold you over a barrel. The good GM does not give in and make a trade for the sake of making a trade. You can always make a trade if you’re willing to give up too much.
KD Bart, I think the Kazmir trade was one where MOST fans knew it was ridiculous. Kazmir was listed as one of, if not the, top left handed prospects in the minors, by many of the top ranking authorities.
I agree with you that we should not be afraid to give up prospects (ala Mulvey, Humber, Gomez)… but at the time, that Kazmir deal was a huge head-scratcher. In part because, as you say, we needed someone “GOOD:” V. Zambrano did not fit that mold.
you can thank al leiter and john franco for that trade.
Are you serious? If so, you are out of touch with reality.
They had nothing to do with the trade.
Go read Mark Healey’s stuff about how that trade went down. Yeah, I know Healey’s been wrong about predicting the future. But his analysis and facts on past trades/transactions has been spot on.
The people who instigated the Kazmir trade were the superscouts who the Wilpons hired themselves.
“we had too many cooks in the kitchen” -Jim Duquette, referring to the number of scouts involved in trade talks.
“In that situation, if someone disagrees, he might not speak up. The loudest voices are the ones that get heard. It does become sort of like a mob mentality.”
I’m not sure what you point is by listing those quotes.
I think that confirms that the superscouts instigated the trade and that both the Wilpons as well as JD were too weak or too baseball stupid to stop it.
thats what im saying.
It’s amazing how some fans still think Leiter and Franco were behind that trade. Just laughable.
hahahahahaha
i love laughing.
if leiter and/ or franco had such pull/ say w/owner-
-ship re:kazmir, why are they not employed in any
capacity by the mets now?
It was peterson in the ear of duquette which caused
that deal to happen.
No. It’s unfair to blame Peterson as well. According to Healey, it was the superscouts who instigated the trade. I think he’s right. He’s got a lot of sources. And as I recall, one of those scouts originally worked with or signed Zambrano when they were both in the Rays organization. He apparently had some delusion that Zambrano could be an elite pitcher.
Go to Healey’s website and look up his recent articles. He recently did a long story that talked about how that trade evolved.
It didn’t help either that the tampa medical staff claimed Victor was only take a light anti-inflammatory but in reality it was much stronger than known…obviously indicating a more severe injury. That said, its idiotic to trade a top prospect for another guy that wasn’t even %100, even if it had been just slight tendinitis.
Uh no. Omar put together bad bullpens in ‘07 and ‘08 and trading the farm for a reliever was not the only way to fix it.
He showed poor judgment when he let Lindstrom go without ever even trying him out on the ML level, not signing Bradford, signing Mota, Show and Wise, and not acquiring better relievers during the last two winters such as Mahay.
It’s a false argument that the only way to fix the bullpen was to trade the farm for someone like Street mid-season.
In what way could it have been fixed before the deadline then?
Did you even read my post? I talked about how steps should have been taken in the offseason.
I read your post. You are going back by a couple of years.
The bullpen was great in ‘06. It was good for a decent amount of ‘07.
People kill Omar for signing old players and you wanted Mahay?
Lindstrom was expendable at the time because it looked as if we were going to have starting pitching depth problems at the start of ‘07.
No one will deny letting Bradford go and signing show was a mistake.
All that you said would have NO guarantee that the pen would be successful today either.
Hindsight: 20/20
No, I’m also going back to last winter. What did Omar do for the pen besides getting rid of Mota? He should have replaced Show as well. And traded Heilman.
Someone said the Rockies had offered Fuentes for Heilman but that Omar turned that down. Well don’t you think he would have been better than Helman?
What about Mahay? He was available too.
As for old players, I have a HUGE problem with that when they are signed as 1) starting position players or 2) a rotation staple and 3) They already have a serious history of be ing injured and not playing entire seasons.
Mahay doesn’t fit that description. Nor does someone like Easley or Anderson who are just bench players. I’m OK with their age as long as their performance is decent.
Lindstrom was expendable at the time because it looked as if we were going to have starting pitching depth problems at the start of ‘07.
That’s crap and just an excuse for a bad mistake. You NEVER have enough pitching. Even Omar likes to say that. Too bad he doesn’t practice what he preaches. Or maybe his motto is “You can never have enough risky or scrap heap pitching.”
The fact was, he never even gave Lindstrom a shot. He just shipped him out without ever seeing what he had. And he got crap back for him.
Re: Lindstrom and Bell. You dont trade guys
who throw 95+mph until and unless after given
multiple chances they show they simply cant pitch.
These were TERRIBLE moves by omar!
No one could have predicted Heilman would have been THIS bad this season and that we would be needing another closer in August.
I said Show as a mistake, but ridding of a reliever with his contract was NOT going to happen this off season. Sorry.
Mahay was had an awful season in ‘05 and had a so-so one in ‘06. Relief pitchers are volatile enough as it is and you want to take a chance with a 37 year old…..okay.
“You NEVER have enough pitching”
He traded pitching FOR pitching. I don’t get the point you are making here at all. Vargas obviously amounted to nothing as we found SP depth elsewhere. I agree Lindstrom should have been given a chance, but that was not going to happen in ‘06.
Again, its easy for YOU to say he should and should not have done when you have the benefit of hindsight.
“Someone said the Rockies had offered Fuentes for Heilman but that Omar turned that down. Well don’t you think he would have been better than Helman? ”
heilman in 07 had a 3.04 era over 81 games
brian in 07 had a 3.06 era over 64 games
we already had a strong L closer…why would we trade a R reliever who had similar era over more games. Talk about putting pressure on a returning sanchez. Again knowing what we know NOW that billy would have went down with injuires and heilman has a 5.35 avg this year..it would have made sense..hindsight 20/20.
The point is, giving Show 3 years was a BIG mistake to begin with. It was a stupid move.
And, you’re right. No one could have predicted Heilman would be this bad. But I would have predicted a steady decline in his stats since 2005 would have continued into this year. And that his motivation and desire would decline as well. . He did well initially as a reliever because he was 1) new at it and 2) wanted to stay with the ML club any way he could.
But once he saw the parade of losers who started for the Mets over the years while he was chained to the pen, do you think his motivation is going to be the same?
Mahay had a GOOD season in ‘06 (considering the park he pitched in), and a great season in ‘07. Relief pitchers are volatile, but you are better off signing someone with a recent prolonged track record of success (Mahay) than someone with a bad one(Wise, Mota, Show). It’s as if Omar is totally blind to stats. If he believes the BS that the bullpen is always a crapshoot then seriously he doesn’t deserve to be GM.
He traded pitching FOR pitching
He traded SOLID and/or PROMISING pitching for risky pitching — pitchers with bad numbers, or otherwise risky pasts. Even Omar said he had this thing for reclamation projects. Maybe he wants to be considered a genius — like he can turn trash into gold. But he’s basically struck out on that.
Even Bannister who’s stunk this year … they would have been better off keeping for 2007 at least. They needed starters last year, and he might have provided needed relief for either the pen and/or rotation.
I agree Lindstrom should have been given a chance, but that was not going to happen in ‘06.
That’s the stupidest excuse I hear on this site for why a certain pitcher isn’t given a chance. Pitchers are given a chance if the FO wants to give it to them. They always find room for pitchers who have promise. And expanded rosters ALWAYS make it easy to try out guys. That’s the biggest copout for dropping the ball on prospects.
Their leaving Flores unprotected was another real bonehead move.
Again, its easy for YOU to say he should and should not have done when you have the benefit of hindsight.
Pay attention, nightlife. A lot of us have been saying these things way before the fact. For example, Mota. I bashed their signing of him from day 1.
Was Lindstrom really all that promising though. Didn’t he not even break into AA until, like, 25?
Really going out on a limb there saying you were against signing Mota, bro.
per wiki
At age 25, Lindstrom began the 2005 season at Double-A Binghamton, in what was determined to be a make-or-break year for his career. Lindstrom went 2-5 with an ERA of 5.40 with eye-popping walk and home-run rates of 6.75 BB/9 and 1.35 HR/9 in thirty-five games (ten starts, as the troubled righty was switched to bullpen duty midway through the season).
Yes, he was promising. He threw close to 100 mph with decent minor league stats. At the very least, he should have been a September callup to see what he had. And Peterson might have improved him even further.
As for Mota,, as I recall, there were a lot of people on this site at the time Mota signed who said it was a good gamble.
Heck, if you’re saying it was a no-brainer not to sign Mota, then what does that say about Omar?
Personally I think it was a no-brainer not to sign him as his failed drug test coincided with his good period in 2006.
And it wasn’t just Mota. I was against the El Duque contract, the Alou option, the Lindstrom trade, the Show contract, and the Bradford snub at the time they were made … among many other things. It’s not just 20/20 hindsight.
At age 25, Lindstrom began the 2005 season at Double-A Binghamton,
Right. Lets look at the season BEFORE his last season with the Mets. Not the most recent one. Sure, that makes sense. :roll:
Look at 2006. He had GOOD numbers that year as his walk totals went down and his strikeout rates went up.
I also think we’re ignoring a major source of decent ML level relievers: our own farm system! All of the guys who are AAAA types (Knight, Figgs, Stokes, etc.) have shown they can be effective relievers. It took entirely too long to give these guys a shot.
I am optimistic that guys who project as AAAA pitchers like Antonini, Gee and Owen might be able to help in the pen in the not-so-distant future, and that doesn’t even include Parnell and Holt in that discussion.
I completely agree with you. Give the guys on the farm a chance. Try out 10 of them if you have to. Maybe you’ll get at least 1-2 good relievers out of the bunch.
If they had at least tried some of the guys in the minors and it didn’t work, then I could see. But they don’t even try. Instead, they just sign junk like Show, Wise and Mota.
(starts shaking thinking about Mota)
I dont agree with the timing of this whole situation. Omar has gone along way to restoring the mets franchise..no question about that. I believe this should have been evaluated next season as i believe the true merit to omar minaya will be what he will do in 2009. We are about to enter a very interesting transition period and we have omar minaya steering the ship. Omar has to hold his weight this offseason and should be judged on that. He has alot of questionmarks going into 2009 and holes to fill. Granted he has his work cut out for him but i would rather have seen what he is capable of doing when he is in the hotseat. That said i dont have a problem with most of what omar has done and theres no denying the impact he has had on the mets postivly. I still think tho he needed to earn that extension in the offseason.
I’m also neither for nor against Omar, but I’m perplexed as to why the news could not wait until after Sunday. Did he earn the extension? I think so, but the timing is dubious. There is certainly was no GM “uncertainty” player concern on the part of the players (a la Willie) that factored in the timing of this decision.
I think Lastings will make at least one All-Star game before he is out of the game, but I think he needed a change of scenery. How do you think the situation would have turned out for him in NY given his production for 3/4ths of the season.
Having Beningo and Mike and teh Mad Dog fanning the flames, riling an impatient fan base.
He is better off developing in Washington.
Completely off-topic, but I just got an email about winning in the SECOND ROUND for playoff tickets. So check your inboxes if you applied a couple weeks ago!
I just bought 4 tickets – probably can’t use them all though.
(shoots self in face)
I have no problem retaining Omar.
I do have a problem that time was spent, by him and ownership, to be worrying about this situation now during a pennant race.
There should a singular focus at this point in time on winning the division, and making plans for the post season roster when we achieve our goal.
I liken this to a player that would skip BP to go to an endorsement phot shoot. We would crush that player for his lack of focus, and Minaya should be held to no lower a standard.
Omar’s contract, and Daniel Murphy’s nickname are absolutely stupid things to be discussing with 5 games left.
Isn’t it obvious?
The Mets/Omar won’t confirm or deny b/c Omar’s extension is contingent on him trading Castillo for a ‘pen guy this offseason.
Duh.
this extension is similar to the extension Jim Dolan gave isiah thomas a couple years ago after the knicks won 2 games in a row?
i do not need to say what happened after that.
This is nothing like that.
Thomas never came close to success in NY. He actually hurt the team.
Just think of where the Mets were before Minaya showed up and now.
For frick sake.
Omar has serious blind spots. I’m against a 4-year extension for him due to the errors in judgment he’s shown particularly regarding Alou, El Duque, and the bullpen.
If this news is true, I think it shows the Wilpons are blind as well. I think a lot of us understood they lacked baseball judgment when they allowed the Kazmir trade to go through. Their lengthy contract extension to Omar solidifies this opinion.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again — the Mets will NEVER win a WS title with Omar at the helm. They may make the postseason and be competitive almost every year (thanks to the large payroll) but they will never go all the way. To do so requires a GM who doesn’t make decisions based on sentimentality or friendships and who takes a more serious approach to the bullpen.
I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think I am. It makes me sad that ownership isn’t any smarter.
Do you honestly think he is not going to address the bullpen this off-season?
I’ll believe it when I see it.
Last winter he got rid of Mota. Good move.
But he left another serious liability behind in Show.
and he signed stokes and wise and when billy went down traded for ayala..
You think Wise was a good move? Geez.
Stokes has been average.
Yeah, getting Ayala was a good move, but what did Omar do over the winter? That’s the best time to fix a pen. Not in July.
wise and stokes were more about depth than anything..and besides who was this stud reliever that was available in the offseason. We had alot invested in the santana deal and the prospects that remained were not enought to get someone in july..what makes you think they were enough in the offseason. As patricks comment ealier said the main probelm in 07 was overuse due to sp not going deep. Going into the season our sp was more balanced and had the capability to go deep and spare the taxing on the bp. Again who was available that would have been able to have been aquired by trading murphy(who is contibuting now), niese(who has contributed), evans(who has contributed), fmart(the future in LF). Can you answer me that…
and please try to use the knowledge that was available AT the time of the offseason and not what we know NOW bout the state of the bp and year.
Dirty, it’s all about priorities. Omar thought it was more important to pick up the option on a 41-year-old player who was often injured than plow that money into the bullpen. Same thing with a 45-year old ? starter who was often injured.
He threw away about $15 million this year in Wise, Alou and El Duque. I would have rather risked that money on someone like Mahay (note — not necessarily him, but someone with good numbers) than on losers like Wise and.
Building a bullpen is often a multi-year process. Omar’s mistakes regarding the bullpen took place over multiple years. It’s never just “what did he do at the trade deadline” or this past winter …. but what has he done since he’s been GM. With the exception of 2006 (and excluding Mota), he’s done a really poor job.
As patricks comment ealier said the main probelm in 07 was overuse due to sp not going deep.
False.
It was the lack of quality arms in the pen. How could it be not going deep into games when their starters were in the middle of the pack (#7) in terms of IP that year?
With the resources Omar has to work with, there is no excuse for having such a bad pen.
He should have invested in or traded for relievers like Mahay. Instead of banking on a known loser (Show) … a known malcontent (Heilman who is at best unhappy) … another guy with bad numbers (Wise) … someone coming off of MAJOR arm surgery (Sanchez) … and an aging elite closer whose performance down the stretch in recent years had deteriorated.
FAH3, I think that step 1 in winning the World Series is getting to the playoffs. Step 2 is getting lucky enough to win. Granted, a lot of luck can be supplemented by having a supremely talented team (which gets to your point)… but teams such as the CWS and STL have shown that talent alone isn’t a requirement, but hot starting pitching and timely hitting are.
Also, as good CEO’s you have to take the word of many of the people below you. This is not to absolve the Wilpons or Minaya for ANY deal they’ve made, just saying that in the Kazmir instance the Wilpons had many many levels of support to make the trade.
Sorry, I disagree that once getting to the playoffs, all you need is luck to win the WS.
And the Cards and the White Sox had much better bullpens in the years they won the WS than the Mets have now. So how can you even start to compare their situations with this year’s Mets?
As for the Kazmir trade, almost 75% of the Mets fans base knew immediately and instinctively how bad that trade was. It was who they were getting back that was the big head scratcher. So if the fans knew, why didn’t the Wilpons? They could have vetoed the deal at any time. They didn’t. There are a lot of owners who would have vetoed such a deal.
I’m not saying that luck conquers all, but it plays an important factor. And “luck” includes “guys going on a ridiculous hot streak at the right time,” including bullpens.
The White Sox didn’t even use their bullpen much in the WS, I believe their starters went 8 IP in nearly all the games? Also, the Cards bullpen got “hot,” I don’t think they were talented.
Also, FAH3… EVERY team, EVER has a better bullpen than the Mets have now! :)
LOL, did you just say the Mets bullpen is the worst team EVER?
Even if you aren’t right, you are damn close.
As for Chicago’s pen in ‘05, of course they were used. Quite a bit. Didn’t you see what Jenks did? He was amazing. And Pollite, Cotts, Marte and Vicaino were also used.
And the Cards bullpen was middle of the pack in terms of performance in ‘06. They did not have a really BAD bullpen like the Mets do this year. They only had 19 blown saves all year long. Not the monstrous amount the Mets have.
Stark gave this factoid — Last year’s Rockies are the only team to win a postseason series while blowing as many as 29 leads during the season. So even getting past the first round will be a task for these Mets.
Fan Base to Mets: Bleed till You Win and Make the Playoffs!!!
Grote, I gotta be honest… I have no idea what that means.
Can someone loan omar your hindsight gla$$es or crystal balls or show him how to use the jedi abilities to convince gms to help the mets for nothing in return…im sure he would appreciate it.
Billy Beane: “Well, Omar, if you want Street, you have to give us THM and Niese.”
Omar: (waves hand) “Billy, these aren’t the prospects you’re looking for.”
Billy: “These aren’t the prospects I’m looking for.”
Omar: (waves hand) “You are much more interested in Anderson Hernandez.”
Billy: “I am much more interested in Anderson Hernandez.”
Omar: (waves hand) “We have a deal.”
Billy: “We have a deal.”
lmaoooo exactly…please remind him of this ability as apparently he must have forgot how to use it.
I know making suggestions like FreeAaronHeilman is making sure are easy when you can look back in time.
All I know is the the Mets before Minaya didn’t matter in baseball. The Mets during Minaya do matter.
No GM is perfect. But he has done a good job.
Sure we’d like a better bullpen, but you know what a better bullpen costs prospects during the season. Prospects we didn’t have or didn’t feel like giving up.
He isn’t sitting on his hands for christ sake. He wants to win just as badly as most fans – if not more.
I’m glad they are going to extend him.
“He isn’t sitting on his hands for christ sake”
-SHHHHHH dont say that too loud….
4 years it’s a bit long IMO. New Mets bullpen PLEASE!!!
omar has done a very good job turning this team around from the dark years from 2001-2004. It was a huge job to fix that mess and omar was a big part of fixing it. phillips drafting/signing reyes, wright, and heilman didn’t hurt either.
i was very concerned that omar didn’t strenghten the farm system, but his farm system brought in santana, church, and schneider.
not to mention that murphy, evans, niese, and parnell look pretty solid. and those kids f-mart and wilmer flores might be a nice player too.
I have to admit, I’m a little surprised at how many people on here are running to support the Omar extension. What gives?? just a couple of months ago, almost every other post were about “FIRE OMAR!!!” Now……………..Omar is OK, he’s a good dude?? He’s made us relevant and a contender. LOL (A term I despise, as though being relevant is a good thing for a team with the highest payroll in NL, you better damn well be AT LEAST relevant and contend!! ). Hey, as far as GMs go, we could do allot worse. I personally think Omar has done a good job other than the Castillo signing and the BP, those are my two biggest pet peeves with him, but over all, I give him a B+ grade ( I can just feel all the grading posts coming! lol ). I also think he should be given an extension and let him complete the mission and bring us to the promise land. But please, please don’t use the excuse of being “relevant” and “Contenders” as a means to defend Omar or prove that he’s done a good job. This not KC or Pittsburgh where being “relevant” is a big accomplishment. Give me a break.
right because being relevant isn’t much for the mighty mets who have zero world series titles in 22 years to go along with only 4 playoff appearance during that stretch.
this year would make 2 playoffs in 3 years with reyes, wright, beltran, and santana in their primes the next couple of years.
I’m just saying Relevant is a very poor word to use with a team with the highest payroll in the league. You would be much better off saying Omar has made them a Playoff Contender or even a possible Championship team, but relevant is weak man, I mean VERY weak. Pittsburgh longs to be relevant, The NY Mets want to be champions and I believe they will soon. Take the word “relevant” and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine. I mean that metaphorically, not you personally.
i’m not taking it personally…i didn’t even use that term. just disagree. no big deal.
We can agree to disagree! lol It’s all good.