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After the game today, Omar Minaya praised the work Jerry Manuel has done but stopped short of endorsing him for the managerial position next year.
Carlos Beltran, however, had this to say:
“I believe he should be back. I hope he will be back. He’s a great man, and he did everything possible to make us earn a spot in the playoffs.
“Unfortunately, we are the ones who go out there and decide what happens. But we feel that he did his part.”
I wrote a column on SNY.tv discussing the brutal way this season ended and discussing whether Manuel should return, including quotes from Minaya suggesting that this year’s team was not as good as last year’s, at least on paper.
How could this team not be as good as last years? It was basically the same team except a much better rotation and the 06 Delgado for half the season.
Most of us forget this, but last year’s pen was actually Great until mid august.
This year’s pen has been awful the whole way through.
That’s the difference right there.
Well, that and a slightly worse Ollie and a worse, injured Maine.
Well, how quickly we forget. This year’s bullpen was also great until the all star break. I wouldn’t know where to look up the stats but they had something like the 4th best bullpen era at the break. It was the second half where they just all lost their jobs.
No, it was the same BP all last year. Great in first half b/c the starters went deeper in first half. As soon as you needed a BP for more than one or two innings, the flaws are exposed.
And this year: no way you expect to see these guys in every single game. BP’s are not built to succeed this way.
This lose has NOTHING To do with the BULLPEN. Where in the hell was the OFFENSE!!! FIVE runs in 3 games when you are looking to go to the playoffs. Lets talk about losing
2 out of 3 to Atlanta
2 out of 4 to Washington
2 out of 3 (AT HOME) to the Marlins
This team NEEDS to be BROKEN UP!!!
The problem is simple, the team is full of good players, however, there is no superstar that will beat you,like Mike Piazza, Name one player on the METS that has a swagger and an aura around him that he will beat you if you make a mistake? THERE IS NOT ONE!! That is the problem.
in some respects yes the offense wasn’t there but think off this, if the bullpen hadnt blown half, only HALF, of the games they blew we would have finished this season with a 7 game lead at least. this bullpen is the reason we are not going to the postseason this year and its unfortunate
the offense was second in the NL in runs scored. the pitching was middle of the road. the bullpen was the problem all year.
Can’t wait for the new PR to come out from the Wilpons when they try and market the Mets at the new stadium. Should read something like this ” come out and spend several thousand of dollars for seats at the stadium and watch the Mets FOLD LIKE A CHEAP SUIT” !
FIRE OMAR !!!! giving him a new four year contract extension is like laughing in our faces. !!! That is what the chant should have been at the stadium today!!!
Let see who didn’t show up today:
Jose Reyes
David Wright (Mr Allstar)
Ryan Church (excused because of concussion)
I think these people including
Duaner Sanchez
Hieliman
Showenwiess
Louis Costello
Should be shown the door and the last person out should be Omar Minaya. Great deal Omar giving that four year contract to Costillo and the year extension to Duaner Sanchez
Omar should be the second person out the door, following Luis Castillo. Slappy is a jinx to the Mets and especially to Reyes, as soon as he rejoined the club off the DL, Reyes stopped hitting. The Mets played their best ball since last August when Fat Slappy was on the DL this year.
Omar is also responsible for putting together this bullpen , Schowenwiess, Heilman( never wanted to be in bullpen), and getting rid of Lindstrom , Chadford, Bannister and Bell. What a pitiful sight seeing Lindstrom shutting down the Mets 1,2,3 in the ninth.
What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Well, I have to say that Omar is insane. This was basically the same team as last years, and he expected different results?
His method of releasing Willie is indicative of his methodology of handling this team.
Jerry Manuel did a great job, I was a fan of Willie’s but I have to admit that Manuel is the man.
However, on the other hand, Omar should be the one to be released along with some of the dead wood he used to construct another loosing season for us fans.
I truly appreciated the total effort by the players and want to thank all of you for giving us hope once again.
The pitching was just as bad as last years with the exception of Pelfry being coached by a real pitching coach, which makes me sympathize with our great offensive players.
I want to thank all the players for putting your heart and soul into the season for us fans. I am sure I speak for almost all Met fans.
I want to tell Omar you should hang your head in shame and stop thinking of ulterior motives and simply think about us fans.
Oh, by the way, I was a Brooklyn Dodger fan as a child and became a Met fan from day one. So I feel that I have more vested as well as other fans than Omar has.
Wilpon’s….. give him what he gave Willie.
Thats right. You can’t blame any on Jerry. We were a mediocore team and he did his best to get the mets to play to their potential. Good job jerry. Too bad we came up short.
what exactly is it you folks think jerry did? the result was exactly the same as willie’s last year, and Jerry had Santana.
I don’t want to hear “on paper” anymore. The World Series is won on a baseball field, not paper.
Jerry is fine.. someone show Omar the door please..
Nice job sitting on your hands at the deadline.. Brewers make a deal.. they to the playoffs…
Phils make a deal.. they go to the playoffs..
Dodgers make a deal.. they go to the playoffs…
Hmm?
Don’t forget the Brewers.
White Sox made deals and may lose on the final day.
I don’t think it’s so much that they make it or not — they all made deals!
ha we didn’t make one!
He did say the Brewers.
I guess Johan wasn’t making a deal? The only team that made two big deals this year, that I can think of at least, was the d-backs and I’m pretty sure they’re going to be watching the post-season from the same place we are.
He was talking about the trade deadline.
Yeah I get that. my point is our deadline deal was Santana. No team made a deal before and at the deadline, actually post but w.e, but the d-backs. If all those teams had made deals before the off-season they wouldn’t have been making deadline deals.
I’m cool with Jerry coming back.
Omar on the other hand…
I don’t think anyone should blame Jerry, but at the same time I think we need a new coach. just fresh perspective can refresh things. we need an up and comer with spunk, and a sense of accountability.
I’m fine with Omar and Jerry. Omar didn’t want to give up the future. We’re now in a FANTASTIC position for the coming years.
All our big players are young, except for Delgado. We have lots of money coming off the books, with which to get pitching.
I can’t believe we got beat by Wes Helms AGAIN.
What “future”??
The Marlins got Aurther Rhodes for peanuts.. he would been our best reliever in the 2nd half..
Aubry Huff Cleared waivers. we couldn’t of used 30 HR power this last week???
Please…
The fans deserved better then this…
A one-armed gorilla would have been our best reliever this year. Ok, besides Smith.
Omar, you’ve got to stop posting on Metsblog.
Lots of money coming after the book really doesn’t matter. Big names don’t enter FA as often and it’s probably going to decrease more and more with teams locking up young players. The Red Sox are in fantastic position for the future, the rays are in fantastic position for the future, even the marlins are kind of in fantastic position. IMO our future is a little murky.
Marlins could go either way. They have one of the worst defensive clubs, if not the worst. Don’t know how you fix that with young players, quickly.
I can’t believe the Post is writing the “it’s the bullpen again” crap. The bullpen didn’t BLOW A LEAD BECAUSE THERE WAS NO LEAD. These choking dogs like Reyes and Wright are the reason they lost.
But what has it been all season? Plus, the momentum was finally changing, and what happened? Two back-to-back jacks. You can’t honestly blame the offense. That just knocked the wind out of them.
wright hit .355/.431/.602 this month.
reyes…not so much. he had 4 excellent months bookended by 2 crappy ones, unfortunately.
also, with a halfway decent bullpen we would’ve clinched the division last week. we shouldn’t have been in this position. it’s on omar.
Snoop Manuel be a gangsta! Omar…eh.
I’m really on the fence about bringing back Manuel. I’m not a huge fan of this one pitcher, one batter stuff but I’m not sure if its just because he doesn’t have pitchers who can get both RH and LH batters out.
It’s not Jerry’s fault that Minaya lacks minimum intelligence.
I think everyone can agree that Wright was not clutch this season. However lets put things into perspective. Wright is 25 yet to hit the prime of his career. he has plenty of time to change ( and he will). Arod is in the prime of his career and has a way longer track record for being unclutch. Cut the guy some slack.
Amen. For the past three years, who is the guy everyone wanted up in a big spot? David Wright. So this is his first year, at only 25 years of age, that he didnt have big numbers with men in scoring position, didnt come thru in the clutch. Does this mean he’s horrible? Does this mean its time to get rid of him? Cant a player have one bad year in one statistical category?
Wright and A-Rod both get bum raps for not being clutch. But for the most part that’s hogwash. Maybe A-Rod doesn’t put up late in games, and maybe Wright didn’t this year, but they put up numbers. It goes unnoticed if Wright drives in 3 in the 3rd inning, though, which is totally unfair. The same goes for A-Rod.
Neither the Mets nor the Yankees are anywhere near a good as they were this year without their respective 3rd basemen.
Can you believe Bloweneweis had the nerve to pull a glavine and say there are bigger things then baseball.
Scott, THAT, my friend, is why you are a loser. 55,000 people pay to see you NOT give a go ahead home run. You threw a ball 5 times and the last did the opposite of what those 55,000 people wanted. Good job.
The 2008 Mets Bullpen: Ladies on the Bus.
Did he REALLY say that? Wow. What a punk. Go F*** yourself, Show (the batters a hanging strike)
if you go to the Surfing the Mets Daily News blog, on the 26th Adam posted that Scott missed Wednesday’s game for the premature birth of his child.
I’m sorry but baseball takes a back seat to personal stuff like that.
i cant even think about 2009 at this point…
Work tomorrow is going to be brutal, I can’t wait for all the “baseball fans” come up to me and talk to me about what happened… “Golly, that team did not play very well at all, their relief pitcher men did not pitch to the hitters very well either, and wow, those mets hitters could not get a very good hit at all…”
Its the last thing I want to talk about tomorrow… It like having your wife cheat on you and the next day have a coworker say, “hey man, that guy sure did a number on your wife”
Ugghh, they broke my heart… again :(
tell me about it…..living in boston right now…..i’ve already had 3 different “fans” call me up……god this is terrible
A disappointing day for sure…
Manuel will be back… and so will Carlos Beltran’s fat mole.
Does anyone think he’ll get it removed during the offseason? I’ts freakin humongous
The mole is probably benign and much smaller than the bullpens ERA.
I dont know… do you think all the extra weight on one side of his side could effect the timing of his swing?
Geeezz i’d love to cut that thing off myself heheheee
As GKR mentioned, something drastic needs to be done in the offseason. My first proposition, get some gritty leadership style guys who can come in and make a difference. I propose to you:
Reyes, Fmart, and Church
for
Matthew Holliday (free agent after 2009) and Troy Tulowitzki
Reyes signed up long term on the cheap, Fmart is a stud prospect, and Holliday is probably gone at the end of next year for the Rockies. Plus Tulo is the young leader of the Jeter mold that I’d like to see at our SS.
What do you guys think?
you’re an idiot, right?
magic 8 ball says….definitely yes
Wow…No….
But Holliday would be a great target for us.
is that A or J Reyes in that trade? You want that f*g Tulo?
That f*g plays gold glove defense and is the prototypical 2 hitter. I love the things Jose does, but I’m beginning to think that there’s no way a team will win a championship with him.
And I’m no idiot.
Are you joking? LOL LOL LOL
I can’t stop laughing.
Jose Reyes is one of the best players in the game. It wasn’t one persons fault. This team didn’t have the pen and clutch players a WS team needs
Just the pen, really. Clutch is incredibly subjective.
And Matt Holliday is probably right behind Pujols as one of the best sluggers in the game while keeping a great average and OBP.
Oh yeah he stole 28 bags this year too.
Just stop.
It’’s an awful trade, stop defending it. I would love Holliday, but not at the expense of Reyes. I wouldn’t do a Reyes for Holliday trade, and I wouldn’t do an F-Mart and Church for Tulowitzki trade, so why would I do both?
No. And besides the rockies want pitching back for Holiday.
I disagree. Who trades the league leader in hits? So we’ll trade Reyes, our starting rightfielder and our top prospect for Matt Holliday (I still cant get over the Coors Field thing) and Tulowitzki. They are both fine players but I would argue that Reyes is more valuable than either one of them. Reyes is a stud, probably the most exciting player in the game. Isn’t Tulowitzki signed to a long term deal anyway? The Rockies are pretty high on that kid, I dont think they’d trade him. Then again, if they did it would be a testament to how poor a decision it would be on the Mets’ part if the Rockies were so willing.
I say: get a good starting pitcher, play Murphy at 2nd base, find a left fielder and get some bullpen arms that can actually throw strikes and get outs. A tall order. sure, but it is what is necessary.
I agree with what you’re saying, but I’m just worried that at the core of the team, there’s no real leadership, or a guy that can truly carry a team offensively for 162 games.
I’m not saying I don’t like Reyes, I love the things he does. But the way we play the game, doesn’t necessitate having a Jose Reyes, since we’ve gone from a team that played great smallball, to everyone trying to mash.
If we are going to shift to that, then get Holliday, a stud who can carry us from the 3/4 hole for 162 games straight. And a great young leader/#2 hitter in Tulo.
Him leading the league in hits is especially impressive, seeing as he took the last 3 days off.
True. But “this” wasn’t Jose’s fault. It was the bullpen, no real left fielder, problems at second base, and problems with 2/5 of the starting rotation. And we still missed the playoffs by a game.
The one problem that does bother me is the lack of leadership on this team.
sure it sounds good, but theres a big problem with that, tulo was awful this yr and dont give m the “he was hurt” business, he just was not good, where are you going to replace reyes’ defense, offense and who hits lead off?
otherwise the deal is fine lol
church f mart for holliday HA
tulo is actually better defensively.
Tulo is a great short stop, probably even slicker fielding than Reyes. And yes, Tulo was hurt, that’s a legit excuse he tore his hip flexor or upper quad, one of the two.
He was very good down the stretch for the Rockies once he got back in the swing of things. Plus he’s got proven October experience and has become a leader for the Rockies in only his 2nd year.
Crazy. Enough said.
i am so surprised ppl think trading reyes is crazy. um last time i checked other teams have won it all without a player like him on the team. yea yea i understand he’s young, exciting, hits alot of triples bla bla bla. someone answer me this. IS HE A WINNING PLAYER??? the answer is a big fat NO! how many times does he dissapear in these big games, how many times does he show zero babeball IQ (trying to steal third, getting picked off first or second).
if you can get a middle of the order outfielder or something thats very reasonable i honestly think its time to make a big change to the core of this team. otherwise what gives me hope that things will be different next year.
you are drunk right?
i don’t know about you guys. but right now im calm …and pretty much don’t know what to feel right now…i mean from the ceremony to know im pretty shocked…and just thinking about what a game it could’ve been tomorrow at night in shea brewers vs mets. i just cant get this out of my head
The Mets should sign Kyle Lohse. He did great with the Cardinals this year and did great with the Phillies last year. There is no reason why you can’t sign him to a 2 year 15 million dollar deal.
Why would he sign for that?
The weakest link is Omar. Omar needs to be sent packing with his partner in crime Tony Bernazard.
Jerry can stay.
I’m not a huge Omar fan, but I don’t understand how people can be whining about him not making a deal. What do you guys think trading for Santana was?
The discussion about making a deal is about the trade deadline, not the off season. Are you reading any of these posts?
Yeah I’m reading them. I’m saying their stupid. We didnt make a trade at the deadline cause we used our pieces to make our big move before the season. How many teams made big trades before the season and at the deadline? Only the d-backs and they’re watching the play-offs like we are. Santana was our deadline move.
I can’t believe this… .and I just pulled a booger out of my nose the length of Long Island… yum
WFAN’s online program guide has ‘Mets v. Chicago’ from 6:30-10:30 every night this week.
that was last week
forum is a mice mix of level headed fans and complete morons.
kinda like the country.
I feel like the complete morons are slowly taking over. Not so much in this thread as in the post game thread.
Yeah, the morons are the ones who continue to defend this choke team under any circumtances
No…the morons are the fans who say they might be done with this team after this. We’re all stuck with this team no matter how many times they come up short. If you don’t feel that way then you’re not a real baseball fan.
Resign Ollie. Sign Derrek Lowe. Get either Fuentes or K-Rod. Get some other bullpen arms. Get ‘em next year.
No. Not Ollie. Burnett.
K-Rod is our priority.
Agree on Lowe. Him or Garland
no Garland. Get Lowe.
Burnett’s too much of an injury risk in my opinion. We know Ollie can pitch decently in NY and be a good part of our rotation.
You call this decent? In the biggest game of the season?
Yeah. Five shutout and then running into trouble in the 6th is fine for short rest.
No, it’s not. He’s overrated. AND he’s gonna be expensive, even if he was rated correctly.
I like Jerry Manuel, but let’s bring back Bobby V.
See, I don’t understand this. Wasn’t there a reason he was fired to begin with? And what are we – they NY Yankees and Billy Martin?
If Jerry doesn’t come back, we need new blood. But I’m really thinking Omar is leaning towards resigning him. He just has a tough time with pulling the trigger on managers.
Trade Heilman in a deal for Huston Street, and make him your set-up man. Sign K-Rod. Our bullpen needs more of an overhaul than that, but there is a starting point.
How exactly do we pull off said Heilman for Street trade?
Please, I’d really like to know if we could do this. Because I’d do it in a heartbeat.
And we need a catcher. Yes, Castro can stay as a part-time player, but he’s always hurt. Schneider isn’t very good and I thought for sure he was better than what we got this year. Question is, where do we get a good catcher? Ramon Hernandez or Bengie Molina possibly?
Everyone needs a good catcher….good luck trying to find one
How about that Jesus Flores kid……oh wait a minute.
I’ve always liked Bengie. How about Miguel Montero? Salty may be available, Kelly Shoppach would be a possibility, and Gerald Laird is good.
And OMG, SNY is just starting the replay of today’s game.
Once was torturous enough for me = lol.
Heilman for Dontrelle Willis anyone?
Hey, I’d do it.
Obviously you’d have to eat a little money getting Willis, but we’ve shown the ability to turn struggling lefty’s careers around.
Another depressing lost season. To lose as many games due to bullpen and then today showcasing how little we score in pressure situations makes me upset with this organization.
Hey, I just want to point out in your article about Jerry leaving Show in to pitch to Helms…
I believe according to MLB rules, a pitcher has to pitch to at least one batter before he’s allowed to be replaced. So it’s not like Jerry could have just made a counter move to bring in Ayala. Not like it mattered considering Uggla also homered right after that.
I believe you are correct.
And that’s the problem with having so many righty/lefty specialists in the pen. We need at least two good arms that can get both sides of the plate out and can pitch two innings when they do make an appearance (and not everyday).
But where, oh, where to get them from???
100% correct. Thanks for the heads up, it was a copy-editing mistake. (Switched “Manuel had to leave Schoeneweis in” to “Manuel left Schoeneweis in”, which is clearer but makes significantly less sense). Of course, that takes away from the point of the article, which was that Schoeneweis shouldn’t be in that situation, but Manuel has few other choices.
Big Pelf.
Or Anyone but the FAIL TWINS.
The problem i that Heilman and Duaner were supposed to be those guys and in Matt Wise who was hurt and you have all the guys who were supposed to be “Set-up” men/non-specialists either stinking or hurt.
Mets 2009
Reyes
Murphy
Wright
Delgado
Beltran
Milton Bradley
Church
Schneider
Rotation
Santana
Pelfrey
Maine
Ryan Dempster??? A.J Burnett??, Kyle Lohse ?????
Niese
Bullpen
K-rod
Fuentes
Street??????
Smith
Stokes
Parnell
MILTS BE THE NEW PRESIDENT!!!!
Wishful thinking with K-Rod, Fuentes, and Street in the bullpen.
Nice bullpen. Maybe we can add Lidge and Marmol too!
Maybe Jesus Christ himself will pitch for us.
You know what with that team why stop at getting just those big name free agents. Why not get Sheets and Sabathia too. Maybe the yankees will trade Mo to us then we really have a good bullpen.
You have to understand there are 30 teams in the league. Not all 30 have lock-down closers yet you are proposing trading for 2 good closers and signing 1 great closer.
I’m still for signing Perez. I’ve always said that the way he’s pitched against the Phillies make him worth it. As long as another team doesn’t make him a ludicrous offer I think we should try to sign him.
Unless we can sign Burnett.
I don’t mind Burnett.
But if he ends up being our big move this offseason…I don’t know about that.
I really don’t trust Burnett with his history of injuries.
Do you trust Oliver Perez with his history of mindblowing inconsistency?
I would rather give money to a guy who I know is gonna be ready to take the ball every 5 days. I still trust OP in the big games he didn’t do anything to change that today.
Manuel cannot be back.
Yes his overall record was nice.
But the fact remains, under his watch the team went from a mid sept 3.5 game lead on the division to eliminated for evern the WC in 2+ weeks.
His team was a mess! Omar made a team that was not deep enough to rebound from injuries to players that everyone could tell were going to be injured.
I’m not a fan of Manuel, but under his watch they also went from sub .500 and like 6-7 games out of the division, and like 8 games out of the wc, to 16 games above .500 and only 3 games out of the division and 1 game out of the WC.
They blew a 3.5 division lead and a 2.5 WC lead
In 2+ weeks.
Nice guy, can’t come back
Agreed.
It’s just hard for me to swallow that the Mets are bringing back both Omar and Manuel after they were both part of two collapses two years in a row,
Yes, Manuel was ok given his entire body of work for the year. But I had problems with a number of his in-game moves this year, including the handling of the starting rotation. More importantly, he had a lead of 3 1/2 games with, eh hem. 17 left and did not lead the team to the playoffs.
I think we need a change at both the managerial and GM positions; a new left fielder; a new second baseman; 2 new starting pitchers; and a complete overhaul of the bullpen.
I pretty much agree 100%.
bring him back
I think Manuel is coming back. The vibe on this team was much better than last.
I started thinking about how to change the everyday player core of the team, given the fact that the bullpen is a given. I think Delgado has earned the right to come back, and it is at not a bad price. We may seriously think about trading Beltran, even though he was one of the best players over the last 2 years. Question is, what value do we get for him, as one of the best CFers in baseball, and is FMart ready for that position? (personally, I think we keep Beltran…)
The “vibe” on this team was much better than last.
Except for the final 2 weeks that is, right?
That vibe was exactly the same as last year
Okay, biggest news…..
I finally caught a foul ball.
If you were at the game and saw the one handed catch of a Beltran foul ball in the bottom of the third… well, that was me.
congrats!
Jeremy Affeldt (30)
Luis Ayala (31)
Joe Beimel (32)
Joe Borowski (38)
Doug Brocail (42) – club option for ‘09
Shawn Chacon (31)
Juan Cruz (30)
Alan Embree (39) – $3MM club option for ‘09
Scott Eyre (37)
Kyle Farnsworth (33)
Casey Fossum (31)
Keith Foulke (35)
Tom Gordon (41) – $4.5MM club option for ‘09 with a $1MM buyout
LaTroy Hawkins (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Matt Herges (39) – club option for ‘09
Bob Howry (35)
Jon Lieber (39)
Jason Johnson (35)
Damaso Marte (34) – $6MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Trever Miller (36) – $2MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.4MM buyout
Guillermo Mota (35)
Will Ohman (31)
Darren Oliver (38)
Chan Ho Park (36)
Horacio Ramirez (29)
Al Reyes (38)
Dennys Reyes (32)
Arthur Rhodes (39)
Juan Rincon (30)
Glendon Rusch (34)
Rudy Seanez (40)
Brian Shouse (40)
Russ Springer (40)
Mike Timlin (43)
Ron Villone (39)
David Weathers (39)
Kip Wells (32)
Matt Wise (33)
Jamey Wright (34)
These are the middle relievers available for free agency. Who do you guys think the Mets should get?
Beimel and Ohman. Don’t see much else.
Ohman, Beimel, and Affeldt jump at me as the guys to look at. Maybe Cruz, too.
What strikes me is that everyone says we have to get rid of the whole bullpen and I totally agree with everyone. But there arent any solid middle relievers on the free agent market
And all the good ones who are tied up will cost an arm and a leg to trade for.
This is why I was okay with the Mets not making a deal at the deadline. A guy like Taschner would cost major prospects.
offense needs help too!
We had no offense these last two games.
And there were oodles of times that we had men on third and less than 2 outs and could not get the run in (and that incliudes the big three with opportunities).
I blame Church.
Marte, Cruz, Ohman, Howry, Farnsworth, Beimel, Affeldt, Dennys Reyes, Shouse, Weathers, and Springer are all worth looking into.
marte is going to get his club option picked up by the yankees
I just want to say, if it wasn’t for Matt, this blog and my fellow Met fans on this blog, I might not have made it through this month – lol. So therapeutic to share and commiserate with those who feel the same way – even if opinions don’t always jive.
Thanks for the season one and all. Hope to see you back next year. I’ll be watching all off season for this guaranteed fixer trades and I’m sure debating those same changes with many of you.
Right back at you, Metsfan!
Now, we have to see what we, as part of this community, can do to help direct this team back to the World Series.
Omar needs all the help he can get.
p.s. I’m still going through your list of relievers. I dunno.
Well, it wasn’t my list of relievers posted. And I’m confused as hell. With relievers, especially middle relievers, they can be great one season, awful the next. Hell, on paper, our BP looked really good last year….
I say we start with a bonafide closer and work from there. But that list is mostly the over the 30 crowd. Maybe it’s time to start looking in unlikely places.
And keep Joe Smith. Young and talented.
I heard on the WFAN while driving home to Philly (ugh) that Jon Heyman is reporting that the Mets are indeed bringing back Manuel next year.
So, there you have it.
Mediocrity, once more, gets rewarded.
Jerry got as much from that team as he could have. He helped turn the season around for us; without him, we’re a .500 team.
And who do you have in mind that would be any better?
I can’t go that far. I think the team was just so relieved not to be asked each day whether or not Willie would be fired if they lost that day’s game.
Manuel could have — make that should have — gone with Johan a few other games (especially those games in July against the Phillies) than he did. They were “no brainer” moves I thought at the time.
Plus, he was part of last year’s collapse and Willie’s bench coach (i.e. the “experienced” manager to help out Willie).
I think a clean slate is needed.
oberkfel.
There’s nothing wrong with the offense. There’s nothing wrong with the rotation. It’s the bullpen, stupid.
Sure in a couple of games down the stretch the offense failed, but throughout the year it was mostly the bullpen.
No team should expect to contend with a bullpen this bad. In fact, only one team in ML history has ever won a postseason series while blowing as many as 29 saves in the regular season and that was last year’s Rockies.
Keep Beltran, Wright and Reyes and clean out almost everyone from the pen except for maybe 2 or 3 of them. And get a decent closer, of course. And if the Wilpons give Omar 4 more years, then they are incredibly stupid and are just asking for 4 more years of falling short and frustration.
As for the Shea Goodbye ceremony, I’m glad they had that at the end of the game as it took my mind off the season’s failure. How great was it to see Doc again, and to see Piazza and Seaver symbolically close the doors as the lights went out? I missed Mookie and Davey Johnson … it’s too bad they both hold grudges against the organization.
I’m gonna miss Shea. So long, old friend.
Agreed.
This team was 2nd in the NL in runs. Talk all you want about choking, lack of clutch hitting, or not hitting late, but I’ll take 2nd in runs.
The problem is the pen, plain and simple. We all know it.
Yup. Fix the pen FIRST, and then if they still fall short next year like they did the last two, then you might break things up more.
Getting rid of players like Wright or Beltran would be like throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
Even Milwaukee, statistically, had a better pen than the Mets this year. Stick Chicago, Philly, LA, or the Brewers with this year’s Mets pen and I’d like to see just how much heart those players have.
Yup, nothing wrong with the offense
Except that with RISP they were a disaster
Except with 2 out RISP they were a disaster
Except after the 4th inning they were a disaster
Except they didn’t show up this weekend
Except Murphy is STILL stranded on 3rd.
But hey, the stats are pretty.
Bottom line — they scored the second most runs in the NL this year. More than the Phillies. And they play in a pitchers park.
Stats don’t win games. Runs do. Except when your bullpen stinks.
Or when you can’t get a runner in from 3rd w/ zero outs
Or you take the final weekend off
Right?
But you had 1 thing right- pretty stats sure didn’t win enough games.
That’s just 2-3 games. Everything gets blown out of proportion when you just look at 2-3 games.
The season is 162 games. Not 2-3. You lack any perspective.
Pretty stats never win games. Runs do … except, again, when you pen is atrocious.
By the way, Mets post game ceremony was awful.
you could barely see the players when they came in. Really poor planning.
The later line up with players crossing the plate was nice. It was there that they should have announced their name. (And they should not have made some of those older guys walk so far).
Pretty wimpy pyrotechnics.
also what was with the billboards in the field. booo!
They did some thing similar with players numbers for the 20th anniversary of the 86 world series.
This was a waste.
It was much better, and less self-serving and arrogant than the one at Yankee Stadium. I hate the Yanks, but all my friends are Yankees fans, so I’ve been to Yankee stadium a hundred times.
I’ll miss both the stadiums, to be honest.
I thought it was great. Short, understated, yet meaningful. And you could certainly see the players if you were watching it on TV as I did. I loved it.
Same here.
not sure where your seats were but I was at the game and thought it was great.
David Wright and Jose Reyes are boys that have yet to get the guidance they need to become successful in New York. Jerry Manual may be a better manager than his former but that by no means he is the right person for this job.. He is cool and they like him but that did not help today or friday or most of September. Jerry Manuel’s sole responsibility was to prepare his team for September baseball and he failed miserably. Those of you who think Jerry should remain and the core should remain are either in serious denial of what has just occurred AGAIN or SHEEP. I don’t know how in gods green earth anyone could not see that this team wasn’t prepared for todays game. David and Jose have lost their way and if this franchise ever wants to reclaim in standing it should seriously consider new leadership.
WE HAVE BECOME THE LAUGHING STOCK OF SPORTS AROUND THE WORLD.
This is not some situation you can fix with a new ballpark or a couple new relief pitchers. This is the careers of arguably the two most talented players this franchise has ever seen. Last season Omar made a huge mistake by keeping Willie and this season will be another one if they keep Jerry and his coaches. Its time to take of the kid gloves with David and Jose.. The Mets organization owes it to us and to them to make the correct decision and prepare them to become what the should be. Jerry has not done that. Actually he has done nothing but allow for a more relaxed clubhouse. What we need is a guy that can teach them how to handle pressure, how to win big games and to rise to the occasion.
Jerry failed us fans, and his team. He did not prepare them the way they needed to be prepared..
ITS OF NO CONSEQUENCE THAT BELTRAN FEELS JERRY DID HIS JOB.. IT MEANS NOTHING.. FACT IS HE DIDN’T AND THIS TEAM DID NOT RESPOND.. HE FAILED,,,
The Florida Marlins with a payroll of 25 million dollars had more HEART and GUTS than these guys ever had. We are by far the more talented team but what won the day was HEART AND GUTS… So make all the moves you want OMAR but until you teach David and Jose how to rise to the occasion or not to get tight in clutch situations you will find yourself spinning in circles..
All this team needed was half of the guts of the Marlins and we would be in the playoffs..
The laughing stock of sports around the world? Not quite.
That would be the Knicks.
And if they were on the east coast, the Mariners.
Wow, is that team badly run.
very true.
We’re all pissed off here, but the reality is we’ve all been through this with this team before, and we’ll stick with this team in the future.
The positives for this team are that we have an Ace starter locked up for the foreseable future, and our offense is top 3 in the league with a solid core of players locked up who pay great defense.
The negative side for our team is simple. Our bullpen. If even a fraction of the historic number of blown saves had been converted, we would be making playoff plans right now.
Solutions to fixing the bullpen are more straightforward this year than last. K-rod is available and should be the #1 priority. In addition the needs to thoroughly scour of the league for effective set up men.
Last year the options for fixing the bullpen were fewer. Scott linebrink for 4 years may have left left us in an even worse position.
Regardless, that is the GM’s job, to use his creativity and our financial leverage to pry value from the market. Any year where you can sign Johan is a good year in my mind, however Omar has a lot to prove this off season. I certainly wish he wasn’t given a contract extension preemptively.
See you at Citi.
enough with the solid core garbage. what the hell have they done, seriously im so tired hearing about the core. the core are a bunch of stat piling chokers, who cant get it done when it matters most. they are the least clutch players i have ever seen and that has been the trademark of this team the past two years. it shouldnt be that i fear jorge f-ing cantu and think that wright reyes and beltran are all gonna fail. this lack of cluthness aint gonna change with age, its either you got it or ya dont. obviously we got stuck with players that cant do it when it counts and as long as we keep this core we are only gonna suffer more heartbreak.
Brian Fuentes (33)
Eric Gagne (33)
Eddie Guardado (38)
Trevor Hoffman (41)
Jason Isringhausen (36)
Todd Jones (41)
Brandon Lyon (29)
Francisco Rodriguez (27)
Salomon Torres (37) – $3.75MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Kerry Wood (32)
I say we need to get alteast 2 players out of this list. K-rod and lyon i would take. wood will get resigned from the cubs
In order:
K-Rod
Fuentes
Kerry Wood
Lyon
Isringhausen
Guardado
Torres
Hoffman
Jones
Gagne
Just for info Todd jones retired
people on this blog don’t know what they’re talking about. In order to pull a trade deadline deal for a reliever or 2, guess who we would have had to give up? Guys like Niese, your beloved Murphy, Parnell and all, all in the same deal. Are you people this near sighted? That one bullpen arm would have saved the day? Really? God, this blog is horrible.
why not take a chance on Ben Sheets. after his injury he shouldn’t cost that much.
Priority
1.bullpen
2.left fielder
3.starting pitcher
4. ben sheets?
I’m pretty sure Ben Sheets is a starting pitcher. Just throwing that out there.
I meant another starting pitcher but thanks for the comment..
Did anybody read Rhoden’s article in the Times today? Kind of sums it up if you’re optimistic about the long term, and I am. This was different than 2007, and quite honestly I was surprised by how resilient this team was all season.
Think about it – this team had no closer. They didn’t even have a setup man. They didn’t have a long man. They didn’t have a single guy out of the pen who could get lefties and righties out with any consistency. They got absolutely no production out of their corner outfield spots after May, besides from an August callup (Murphy) and a guy who had been out of the game for four years (Tatis). Nothing out of second base either besides a 38 year old utility player who couldn’t stay healthy down the stretch.
For people who call this team gutless – I could not disagree more. I have never seen a team bounce back from so many devastating losses. Ask yourself how many times, starting with the sweep in San Diego, did you say to yourself ‘this team is done’? From where I am sitting, this was a very flawed team that was done in by a very good team this weekend. The Marlins will be scary if they can shell out some money to their arbitration-eligible players next year. Nelson, Lindstrom and even Rhodes are better than anybody in the Mets bullpen, hands down. If the Mets had something -anything – in the bullpen, they take the last two Sundays against the Braves and today’s game is for the division, not the wild card.
Johan is the ace they were missing, but there is no doubt that there is still some grit missing in that clubhouse. These guys (Wright, Delgado, Reyes, Beltran) are all nice guys – I think we need a real cocky (and talented) SOB in there to stir things up, in the mold of a Backman or Dykstra.
Down the road, I think the fans may end up looking at 2008 as a transition year. It depends quite a bit on how Omar moves in the offseason. As disappointing as today’s outcome was, I am far more hopeful than I was at the end of 2007.
… or maybe I’m just getting used to these heartbreaking finishes.
so what you guys doing? so bored.. just think tomorrow we could of been witching brewers vs mets at shea in the night with all he drama..rally towels cameras flashing. could’ve been awesome oh well
Yes, dammit. Especially since I’m no football fan. I live for baseball – oh, and horse racing.
And today was the last day of the season for racing at Monmouth Park. Tough choice for me but I choose to watch the game. Doomed to disappointment. If I went to the track, maybe I could have won a couple of bucks – lol!
THE WILPONS ARE STUPID!!! NEXT SEASON WAS OMARS LAST SEASON AS GM ON HIS CONTRACT AND IF THEY DIDN’T GIVE HIM THE EXTENTION HE WOULD BE UNDER HUGE PRESSURE TO FIX UP THIS TEAM, NOW WITH THE EXTENTION ALL HE’LL DO IS MAKE LIKE 1 OR 2 CHANGES AND CHILL OUT!!!!!!
the worst part is ticket prices go up to at least 75 dollars a game. i might never be able to really enjoy baseball again with the combination of a corporate building/mall/baseball park for a home and overpaid losers with no heart for players. at least we get to watch one of the best pitchers in baseball every five days who showed a lot of heart yesterday. fuentes, krod, street. at least two of that level of relievers need to be in the bullpen next year, plus number two starting pitcher, a big corner outfield bat and a hitting catcher. god help us if we go into next season needing the same parts we needed at the all star break.
and of course jerry should be back
why?
Everyone think Delgado will definitely be back next season or is Tex still a possibility?
Delgado comes back. No Tex. IMO of course!
Fix the pen next season yes
BUT
Whatever Omar does, he MUST import leadership.
This team has none.
And who were the leaders in 2006?
You mean the fluke season where they got bounced by an inferior team?
Do you REALLY want to argue that the leadership on this team is adequate?
You lemmings…..never ever stop defending.
Even after a 2nd straight choke.
You deserve an October of watching other teams.
Hope you enjoy
Fluke season? They were in first from like the 3rd day on and never looked back. Swept the Dodgers in 3, got to within a game of the WS. That is no fluke, ace.
You will just never be happy unless they dominate by 50 games in the division, sweep all three post season series. And you are doomed to disappointment b/c it’s never going to happen.
You don’t have a fluke season and win 94 games.
That inferior team trounced every superior team that postseason. You know why? They played superior ball.
Look at the w-l totals since 2005
That was an abberation season.
But hey, you want to tell me how great the 2006 team was, fine.
How’d it end again?
This is why you deserve what you’ve gotten the past 2 seasons.
Even in the face of 3 disappointing seasons, you’re STILL acting as if everything is great and this team has actually accomplished something.
Enjoy October baseball pal.
As for leadership,Furioso, it can’t do a thing when your pen blows game after game.
What … you want a Wally Backman type to rush the mound and grab the ball from Show or Heilman and throw it himself? Think it will help?
Not if you have a stinky pen.
The debate was not how it ended up. The debate was about that team being a ‘fluke’, which you so stated.
You just go from one negative post to the next. Even when the point you make is dead wrong and can’t possibly be conceived as negativestat, you pull something negative from it.
If I was as miserable as you seem to be following this team, I’d give it up and take up knitting.
The pen had ZERO to do with inability to get runners home, especially from 3rd.
Murphy is STILL waiting there.
Or the offense not showing up for the final weekend.
It is a bad to act as if the pen is the ONLY problem.
Don’t get fooled.
Furioso, you need to read better. I keep saying the pen is god awful, and you think I said everything is hunkey dorey? C’mon, man. Pay attention.
The team in ‘06 did so well because it had a great pen. But Omar didn’t find any suitable replacements for Sanchez, Bradford, and Oliver while Heilman and Wagner have regressed. That’s why the ‘07 and ‘08 teams aren’t as good.
Hey Metslemming4decades”
What, exactly, is there to be happy about today
Again, man, the season isn’t one week long.
The pen had everything to do with losing today’s game and with the majority of bad losses this year.
The pen is the main primary culprit of this team’s inability to make the playoffs. And if you don’t think so, then you were watching a different team this year than the majority of us.
Main culprit yes.
But not the only culprit.
The core has a fatal flaw.
Now is the time to fix ALL flaws.
Also, lets go through the archives and see all the games where the OFFENSE went to sleep after 3, failed to do anything with RISP, etc.
The offense was an issue this season and needs work.
And the “clutch” factor is lacking (except for Johan)
If the Mets had had the Phillies pen this year and vice versa, then the Mets would have won the division and the Phillies would likely be out of it.
Would you then think they had to break up the core of Rollins-Utley-Howard?
There is no fatal flaw in a core that scores the second most runs in the league. Is it perfect? No. No one has a perfect core. But it sure ain’t the problem.
Yes it is.
The offense was an issue this season and needs work.
As I just said, no offense/core is perfect. All teams want their offense to be better. But the Mets offense this year was not a major issue.
It doesn’t matter if you score 5 runs in the first inning or in the 8th, as long as you score them. With the exception that scoring them early theoretically should be an advantage as it enables your starters to relax.
Yes it is.
No, it isn’t.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree then. Say what you want. But the pen is the root of this team’s problems.
I agree.. who do you think Omar should be looking at?
long day to be at the game (2 years in a row for game 162 for me). Glad I didn’t stay for the post game. Doesn’t look like I missed much.
somethoughts:
Jerry is OK, but probably should go, along with the whole staff, just to clean house and the atmosphere. But, if he stays, the team wil be fine.
I also think the future is bright. Good core, some young guys, and a few good moves, and they could dominate.
Just gotta get rid of the right guys (and a lot of them!). ANd get 1 thing they were missing ll eyar, a LF with pop that could be a force in the line up. And take pressure off DW.
IMO, Heilman, Schoe, Castillo have to go, just for the fans sanity and their own safety.
Pedro M goes. Ollie I think can go too, but on the fence here…
others like both catchers are disposable. Pedro F, and everyone in the pen other than Smith. But bring back Ayala as a set up dude.
They need to get Murphy established as the 2B, with a quality glove back up (not A. Reyes). Upgrade catcher (maybe RH bat, with Schnedier as back up).
Garland and Neise? to fill out the rotation (or Garland + another established guy).
And find a LF that can hit, ideally someone that can move to 1B in 2010!
but danged if I know how to fill out the pen, but dig deep. Maybe Parnell can close?
anyway, at least 3 years in a row they gave us meaningful games until the last day of the season. Still haven’t gotten the outcome we all want, but it is better than being eliminated by the trade deadline and runnning out the string!
Hey great article Ted. So, besides a copy of Moneyball and a fake mustache, what exactly are your qualifications to say this isn’t a collapse and Jerry should be back?
Have you ever played baseball? Were you even a baseball fan before you got your SNY gig?
Here is what I think of Manuel:
Without Manuel (in other words, had we kept Willie) we would not have been in this situation today because we woulda been eliminated a while back. Honestly, 70-80 games into the season we looked bad and destined for a losing season. Manuel brought us back into the division lead and IMO did very well with what he had. We had a depleted bullpen, injuries to the staff and still managed to come within a game of making the playoffs. Its hard to blame Manuel for the bullpen blowing so many games this year.
It wasnt that Manuel changed anything or did an amazing job, the players have said that much themselves. It was simply that Randolph wasnt there that was the different, the team wouldnt play for him.
I disagree that the team would have done worse under Willie this year or the nonsense that the “team wouldn’t play for him.” That’s utter BS. (With the possible exception of Delgado)
All teams have hot and cold periods during the year. They had started to play better already before Willie got fired. And Santana as we all know is a second half pitcher.
I think the team would have done just as well — and as bad — as it did under Willie.
I actually think the pen would have been managed better under Willie — as-suming Peterson was still there. I think Manuel’s constant yanking was bad for the relievers because it led to overuse of some of them and lack of confidence in most in them. Maybe this is in large part a reflection of Wharthen as well.
this is on the money
I love Piazza more than anyone…but do we as fans make him out to be more hardcore than he is? I mean 2001-2004 were pretty awful years and the Mets had to get Pedro in 2005, while Piazza was on the team, to restore the team’s image.
To my fellow fans-
Sorry for the way season ended again.
Last year I felt that bc of their finsh, Omar & Co. would have to go get Johan. (My only fear was the Yankees).
So since they crashed again regardless of who is the mgr. but with the new Stadium, my gut is telling me that we are going after CC and resigning Perez. I like the platoon in LF w/ Murphy & Evans. What we really need is an additonal OF that is right handed power bat who can also slot into 1B.
I’m worried about Maine and I do not expect Petey back.
I will miss this season but I am glad I did not send them the $ for the playoff tix. I grew up at Shea and I think I am going to retire from attending so many games and maybe ratchet down the amount of time i spent on this team.
I only wish we get CC. Extreme best case is K-Rod, Burnett, and some trade for Magglio Ordonez. Plus a lot of tuneups for the pen.
We need to Trade Beltran..which should be obvious for any knowledgeable fan to underdstand without me explaining..
Are you being facetious? He was the only one who hit today.
DUMB.
uhhh wuts the obvious reason of trading beltran?
Please expalin to us not as educated as you, why Beltran should go and which gold glove caliber, 20-30 HR, 100 RBI 100 Run player you have in mind that can easily step in and replace him. Because its real easy to say, clean house or trade them but if you don’t have a viable replacement you can’t get rid of a guy. Its not fantasy baseball
Beltran should go for this reason…and ive been reading a lot of th previous posts above…and yes i pretty much watch every single mets game so i know what im talking about.
Yes Beltran puts up great numbers..but lets not forget that he is a career .275 hitter…and the RBIs he produces in hte middle of a lineup with Reyes at hte top are a little deciving…pretty much any .300 hitter will have 100 RBIs in that lineup…Beltran in a diff lineup would not have nearly as good numbers…
Beltran is NOT a leader. The team needs to make some huge changes this offseason…just to change the makeup of the team and give us a reason to think 09 will be different. REYES and WRIGHT cannot be traded for obvious reason. Beltran however CAN be spared…he plays wonderful defense…but he really can be and should be spared for a RELIEVER and a TOP prospect which is very reasonable…Then we need to sign Manny who gives us a much better BAT than beltran, a clutch playuer…and someone with balls….Then we sign Krod…and our team is all SET
we upgrade our PEN our FARM and our LINEUP athte same time…just downgrading our defense a little bit…but we can put Endy there if we have to…still an OF of Church Endy and Manny
Since when did Manny become a leader? Was that after he pushed the Red Sox employee to the ground? Sat out important games? Or complained about his current contract?
Manny will never win another ring anywhere. Because no smart GM will sign him to a long contract at this point in his career even if he is raking at the moment. And it takes a smart GM to win a ring these days. Or a very lucky one who inherits a team that is already a winner.
You can upgrade your PEN and the LINEUP without trading Beltran. And Beltran + Church + Murphy (or another decent outfielder) will be more productive than Manny + Endy + Church.
first of al lu said it ur self beltran wouldnt be as good in any other lineup, why cause hes great in our lineup.
manny is in no way possible it just wont happen
and he does fine for what we need him t odo, hes the only one to drive in any runs today, and he is a freaking gold glove award winner ,wed lose so many more games if it wasnt for his glove
I mean you guys are just wrong…you cant base Beltrans 2 run homer today on his performance for the year…and Beltrans .275 average continues to kill us…and theres no way our lineup wouldnt be better with Manny in it and Beltran not in it
You are just wrong. If Manny declines next year — a distinct possibility since he’ll be 37 and won’t be playing for a new contract like he is this year — then, yes, our lineup next year might be much better with Beltran in it, especially if you’re going to replace Beltran with Endy.
Now I know why you want Beltran gone. Because it’s the only feasible way they’d pay for Manny. And you’re apparently a big Manny fan. It’s more about Manny than Beltran.
Also, since when does a .275 average “kill” a team?
Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn’t. All depends on what that player does when he hits.
Did Howard’s .251 average kill his team? Apparently not.
I do no think anything Beltran did this year “killed” this team. What killed this team was the bullpen. Period.
You simply cannot place the entire blame on the bullpen although it was one of hte worst in history of mlb…the team still did leave runners on 3rd base with no outs and cant hit sac flies…choked at times…and didnt score runs…and how can someone even say “what if mannys production goes down” the guy is hitting .400 for hte dodgers over a 2 month period and just carried them into the playoffs
and also your point about Howard and his BA was one of hte stupidest arguments ever…Howards .251 came with 47 home runs tons of rbis and so many clutch hits…exactly hte opposite of what beltran did…25 hrs 110 rbis and VERY FEW clutch hits…
He had two in four days.
Cant base Beltran being good for this team and him deserving to be around on hte hits hes gotten for us…the reason once again for him leaving over anyone else is because he is the least Valuable out of Reyes and Wright and is the only one that can be possibly traded out of hte 3…the TEAM NEEDS a CHANGE…cant keep throwing out hte same teams every year that continue to fail miserably…gotta make a change so that people can actually watch the team next year…cant have fans watching opening day without a MAJOR change knowing that what happens early in the season means jack sht
I have news for you. Every team leaves runners on 3rd with no outs, fails to hit sac flies and chokes at times.
But few teams have as bad a bullpen as the Mets this year. So, yes, I can place almost the entire blame on the bullpen.
And the guy who is hitting .400 for the last 2 months is also the guy playing for a new long term contract and will be turning 37 next May. There’s a small chance he can stay productive for the next few years, but the odds are against that. Should the Mets take another chance on an AARP player after having gotten burnt by Alou and El Duque?
There’s also the issue of his behavior. No, it’s not an issue in LA so far, but 1) he’s only been there a short while and 2) he’s on his best behavior since he’s playing for a new contract.
I dont think ive seen a team in my entire LIFE not score runs 3 consecutive innings with a runner on 3rd with no outs…so the mets are hte first….and YOU ARE SO WRONG WITH UR OPINIONS AND ARGUMENTS…the failure of this team goes BEYOND the mets bullpen..its not the sac flies that they fail to get in…its the situations and times that they dont get sac flies in…AKA the biggest game of the year in hte 9th inning in a tie game…
and also your point about Howard and his BA was one of hte stupidest arguments ever…Howards .251 came with 47 home runs tons of rbis and so many clutch hits
No. It was a perfectly valid counterpoint to your statement which I think was one of the stupidest ever. To say that Beltran’s .275 average “killed” the Mets was at the very least a gross exaggeration. Would it have helped had he hit for a higher BA? Of course. That’s the case with ALL players. But the fact was, he was productive even if he just hit .275. He didn’t “kill” the Mets.
And by bringing up Howard I wasn’t saying Beltran was as clutch down the stretch as Howard was or that he produced as many runs. I was making a point that pointing to a low average and saying it “killed” the team is stupid. Really stupid. Without putting that BA in context.
Beltrans one of the most overrated players on the mets period…hes quiet in the clubhouse…doesnt have hte balls to get his team fired up…and doesnt get big hits and step in when other players start to fail..hes older than Reyes and Wright and he brings much less to the table than both of them…and since the mets need to change their core…beltran needs tog o
its the situations and times that they dont get sac flies in…AKA the biggest game of the year in hte 9th inning in a tie game…
Sorry. It’s not just the Mets. And it only stands out now because they didn’t make the playoffs. Because primarily the bulllpen stunk.
These same players who you point to now have gotten it done in the past. The constant failures of the pen placed extra pressure on the players down the stretch. Fix the pen and the offense will perform better. Even with the lousy pen, they scored more runs this year than the Phillies.
If your argument is that the mets offense failed because of the extra stress caused by the bullpen, thats one thing..but to say the mets offense didnt fail is simply not true
Oh, I get it. It’s clear now that you’re one of those fans who have always gotten on Beltran. Perhaps you even booed him at games.
Well I completely disagree with you. In fact, I think he’s one of the most under-appreciated players on the team. Many fans have failed to recognize his superb and unique all-around play. He helps the team win with his bat, glove, and legs. One of the smartest players around. Is he streaky? Yes. Is he as good a hitter as Manny has been? No. Is he a better all around player than Manny and a better fit for the Mets going forward? Definitely.
So, go ahead. Continue to pine for Manny. He’s a bad risk for the Mets at this point in his career. I much prefer Beltran.
the mets have COLLAPSED 2 years in a row….adding manny to the team is NO RISK…keeping players involved in 2 year collapse GREATER RISK
f your argument is that the mets offense failed because of the extra stress caused by the bullpen,
No. I’m not saying it “failed” because of the bullpen. I’m saying the bullpen added pressure on the offense which contributes to failure.
but to say the mets offense didnt fail is simply not true
I never said that.
Any team’s offense is going to fail at least around 2/3’s of the time. The question to ask is whether the Mets offense failed any more than any other team’s. And the answer is NO.
But their bullpen did fail more than most other teams. That’s inexcusable for a team with the league’s highest payroll.
So, the bullpen was the team’s biggest, primary problem.
adding manny to the team is NO RISK
If you consider having a 40-year-old slugger producing at a small fraction of the amount he did at age 30, making $20-25 million a year, and defensively challenged would not equate to a disaster, then you are right. Manny is not a risk.
dude hes hitting .400 with the dodgers and having a bigger 2nd half than hes ever had…how the F can he be declining…u cant be serious
dude … I didn’t say he’s declining. I said he’s a big risk for decline given his current age. Therefore, anyone that gave him more than a 2-year contract is insane. Look at Sheffield, dude.
But since you brought it up, take a look at Manny’s RBI totals over the last 4-5 years. They have been steadily declining.
i think that a couple of things need to happen
1. leave the defense, our feilding is fine
2. keep delgado, with him actually playing we have a good chance
3. completly destory this bullpen, everyone must go, have a garage sale for all i care we can not have a bullpen that consists of heilman (3 runs), feliciano (2 runs) schoenwies (4 runs) sanchez (1 run)
4. get rid of castillo we have no need for him, trade him release him, kill him for all i care he needs to go, no effort no hustle, no bat, get him out of here
5. let jerry get one more year if he doesnt make the playoffs, get rid of him and sign keith hernandez as the manager, when keith talks people listen
yeah i believe that
a. keith had a problem with reyes and they actually had words to each other early this season…
heres the deal, omar will need to get creative. i used to think that all i wanted was k-rod. heres the thing, im not sold that his arm will hold, let alone signing him to the 5 year deal he will prob ask.
beltran needs to stay, unless you trade for a rios or some young outfielder.
obv bullpen is an issue and if omar sugarcoats it bc wagner was out i will never turn on another mets game (obviously i would).
here is what i think needs to happen…
manny!
wherever he goes team plays with fire.
he has been the answer for 3 years now and omar could not pull off a deal.
2009 LETS GO METS!
But can we afford to keep Beltran, sign Manny and sign Krod…i think in order to get Manny we need to get rid of beltran
i think we should jsut sign krod, and maybe try and get scott kazmir and chad bradford back, then well be in business
No MANNY!!!!
wethreekings doesnt know what hes talking about…thinking Manny is bad for the METS is just so stupid
(sorry for venting my anger on separate threads)
dismantle this undescribable bunch of choking losers! tear it apart like the stadium! heartless,?i dont know, i guess they were trying, and i’m sure that their lucullian buffet or fancy dinner is tasting a little bitter tonight. gutless? for sure! They ruined a season and found away to ruin what the should have been a memorable celebration. What a way to completely f-ck up, on all possible fronts. At least the Yankees got their a$$es eliminated well in advance, and closed down their park with a nice win and a nice celebration. The mets closed out like this, with another miserable loss to the laughable marlins on the last day of the season. Once again, they do things right, we not only do things wrong- we do things worse than the most perverse hooror writer could envision. This team don’t deserve a shiny new ballpark, they should learn what it feels like to earn just enough for utilities, food and gas while doing something other than live the life and play around with a little ball. I’m not even gonna single out anyone (an excre-mental bullpen, a bunch of si$$y balless hitters). “You lose as a unit” eh Wright? Well tear up this pathetic unit thoroughly, don’t let it bring its stench of undescribable failure (which this ‘unit’ will never get off itself) to the new park. Last year, at least, they gave their spot to a truly fighting (albeit grossly inferior) philly team. This year (granted, they should have still taken the division..) they managed to give it to a team who’s tendency to choke and implode would have become legendary in its own right, if it wasn’t trumped by the masters… This team will never win. because 1) they’re proven, documented losers, 2) what they’ve done would only keep haunting them, in a perennial vicious circle of loserness. If you disagree then u really have too many stat sheets up ur a$$ and dont understand a thing about playing sports. it’s like a champion boxer who’s been knocked out bad, he may further perfect his technique, get into even better shape, but he’ll never be the same fighter again. And by the way I apologize for even remotely likening these tender, mediocre performers to fighters… DISMANTLE. COMPLETELY. I dont care if it means three years before we’re anywhere near competing (those three years couldnt possibly be as miserable as the last two). Also, a couple days ago I timidly defended Omar (I figured I’d be positive about him, since he’s already signed…), and now I hear that the first thing he said is “he’ll recommend to the Wilpons keeping Manuel”. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Nothing personal, but not even if it’s as a janitor. Mark my words, whenever the Mets let him go (hopefully tomorrow) the man will certainly never get another managerial position in MLB again (as he hadnt for the past 8 years). heck, even that division 3 college team might revoke its offer.. And I wont even get into the specifics of why I think that (especially the past month, and especially with the pitchers) he did the worst managing job I’ve ever seen. A collapse like this should suffice under any circumstance. And with all the bad karma of “history repeating itself” we’ve just witnessed and keep talking about, after re-signing willie last year you’re now gonna re-sign this incompetent schmuck (who happened to be Willie’s bench coach) ??? Please Wilpons, please. Dismantle this core, this culture of unspeakable failure, and, yes, BRING BACK BOBBY V!
agreed…..gotta break up the core of this team in some aspect…
I don’t think Manuel should be back either. While I also don’t think bringing back Bobby V is the answer either, he is a better manager than Manuel.
One other thing that should be mentioned: LOUIE AGUAYO MUST GO!!!!!
aguayo has been the most agressive third base coach i have ever seen, he made us score so many more runs, do net let go of aguayo
He holds up players he should send and sends players he should hold up.
nothing jerry did told me he was this great manager. i think anybody you slot in there would’ve done the same job (ie. the turnaround) b/c the team needed willie to go. (side note, willie was the scapegoat but all baseball managers are usually scapegoats).
secondly, he did nothing as a manager this week that stood out. with the mets struggling to score the past two days, there were no bunts, or hit and runs…stuff like that. he didn’t try to manufacture runs for an offense that was clearly feeling the pressure.
friday night, he brings in a rookie reliever in a huge spot of the game which didn’t work out. and he goes to schoenweiss and ayala when he could’ve gone to pelfrey for an inning. this was the mets playoff game and he went to the same guys that continued to fail him all year. i’ll give him credit for trying to change the lineup but he kept ryan church out there in the midst of a major slump while banishing endy to just a late inning defensive replacement.
jerry is smooth with the media but that’s about it imho. i think you need a real baseball guy that either is a control freak or thinks out of the box. mets have to get over the hump and i don’t think jerry is the guy. i would also let delgado go and go sign 2 good outfielders and put murphy/evans at first.
Agreed. I’ve listened to many of Manuel’s pre and post-game interviews and I was not impressed with that Dr. Hibbert (The Simpsons) laugh of his. As far as substance went, he didn’t seem to be much of tactician. And I thought he should have stretched out the starting rotation, and Johan in his July/Aug. starts against the Phillies in particular.
I would like to see him and, obviously, third base coach Louie Aguayo, gone. Aguayo is the worst 3B coach I’ve ever seen.
Right or wrong Manuel will be back. The culture of this team will remain the same because ownership is more than happy with the results. As long as the Mets attendance continues to be strong and the team receives publicity, on the field good or bad and off the field good publicity, things will not change. OTOH the Yankees finished with the same record as the Mets and I can guarantee that the Yankees will be back in the playoffs next year. I wish I could make that guarantee for the Mets.
I think Citi Field is already sold out for the season, or close to it, so the attendance will be strong next year. But, if this team still flounders, then the booing will be there too.
Ultimately, the Wilpons are going to be the problem. If Omar’s hands are tied by the Wilpons “budget” in ‘09, then we all ought to let them hear it and hear it LOUD.
All I have to say is that Bobby Valentine would have dominated this division. I think we all agree with this. WE GAVE AWAY 29 GAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How can any team overcome this? in 2006, the STL Cardinals had 2 8 game losing streaks and they still made it. I just don’t understand. How can you have it all there for the taking and just lay down and die? BOBBY V!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He’ll bring it and then some.
NEW YORK — The Mets have decided to bring back Jerry Manuel as manager despite the disappointing end to their season, SI.com has learned.
time to get rid of schowenweis,heilman and replace them with jon rauch and brian fuentes make a deal for soria from kansas city and aquire an outfielder with power. And keep an eye on delgado to see how much longer he will last.
Id also like to see roy oswalt in a met uniform this coming year.
KROD…OSWALT…RAUCH…OF WITH POWER NEED I SAY MORE?
One hole in the lineup should be filled with Orlando Hudson at 2nd base. Great clubhouse guy, gold glove fielder and he want so t come to NY. Adios Luis
Look….I’m 48 yrs. old,have been a diehard Met fan since the mid 60’s.To me yesterday was old hat!The history of this team is alot of lows sprinkled with a few highs….these are our Mets.I can’t help but love them.
How easy it must be to be a Yankee fan…to have your playoff tickets printed out before the season even starts….to have a history of Dimaggio,Mantle,Ruth,Gehrig.
Forget that I’ll take Seaver,Koosman,Agee,Harrelson…I love this team and always will…I will never give up hope,there is always next year.
The next time we win it all it will be that much sweeter!!
thank you,
i think that this guy is the msot true mets fan out of all of us. looking at the high, optomistic points rather than sulk around. we lost, but hey we oppened shea up with a loss and we closed it with a loss.
we need to make changes and something needs to happen
but still we need to have faith in our mets and look on the bright side
I followed those God-awful teams of the late 70’s, early 80s and early 90s. I’ll be back next year. I must like pain.
The only appropriate way to redeem this meltdown during the off season is to completely gut the bullpen. Eat some contracts, and wipe it clean. They have absolutely killed this season.
Keep Jerry and Omar, but nobody in the bullpen should be anywhere close to safe.
Umm, we should come back because we’re fans. I plan on it.
Coming back beacuse we’re “fans” isn’t good enough.
Not anymore.
You want to be a punching bag, that’s your perrogative Gina.
Some of us have a little respect though.
Dude, you are an awful human being, and your signature is incorrect. You aren’t a dodger fan.
LOL, a fan of a team from the worst division in baseball on a Mets blog bragging. Have fun getting embarras-sed by the Cubbies.
You’re a towel.
Dude, you gotta lot of nerve coming on this site with that piece of crap team you have. The only way the Dodgers made the playoffs is by playing in the worst division in baseball.
Trust me, the Dodgers are going nowhere this year. And you have no future, loser.
They’re going to the playoffs
Maybe you want to tread carefully
He obviously meant going nowhere in the playoffs … a pretty sound prediction IMO. Maybe you want to read more carefully?
I read fine.
The score says FL 4, NY2
I read the standings very well also.
agreed
ummmm actually the game was already tied before the ball went through buckners legs. So basically the game would have simply went into extra innings.
I am just pointing out a continuous misconception that Buckners error saves the mets from losing
And living in Boston I can tell you they all forget that we lost game one of the WS thanks to a double play ball that went thru Teufel’s legs.
then leave dude. Seriously. I was with you being negative down the stretch. The BP blew big time and there was no way this team was going to get through it but I mean come on dude you are obviously a fan you will obviously be back next year. You just simply like to bitch and moan
When did I ever say anything like that? I was one of the people saying we weren’t a play-off team even with Santana before the trade happened. And saying we were just a bad team when people kept whining about underachieving before the 10 game winning streak. And saying the winning game was a fluke after it. I’ve never said they were going to turn it around. I’ve said people who act like the sky is falling are stupid.