Man, what a long day.
I will have more to say tomorrow, after a lot of what transpired today sinks in – but, for now, despite the season coming to an end, I am left thinking about Shea Stadium, and the memories of the past – whether good or bad.
This is going to be a bizarre off-season, I feel. Frankly, as for this current team, I feel very jerked around, and I’m not sure what I think should be done to avoid having next year end in the same way that the last two have. But, we can get more in to that in the days and weeks and months ahead.
Tonight, all I want is a hot shower and a good night’s sleep.
{ 371 comments }
We should’ve brought in Carlos Voltron.
I’m not trying to point the finger at anyone but i believe the reason we losed today was Jerry Manuel who decided to change up the lineup with two days left in the regualr season. I know we losed friday and everything but i believe the lineup with wright batting third murphy in the 2 hole and beltran in the 5 hole would have work if they put there heart in the game.
The game might’ve been 4-0 then if he hadn’t moved it around.
We can only wonder.
ITS too late NOW
I don’t know what to think, this was a gut wrenching loss for the second year in a row. Why I feel this one was worst because they showed fight, trying to outscore a horrific bullpen and giving us all fans hope.
After Saturdays performance by Santana, I felt like things were going to change. I’m sure alot of Met fans felt that way. There are many places to put blame, whether it’s the offense, bullpen or the starters besides Santana that don’t go deep into the game.
Whatever it may be, something needs to change. I’ll probably think straight in the morning. Right now it’s hard to find the words to say what this team needs the most right now.
The problem is everyone dwells in the past. What happened, happened. Take this defeat and move on and use it to your advantage. You know what needs to be fixed in order to win championships. On top of that, be happy there is a new facility catered to the needs of the Mets
Actually, we don’t know what needs to be fixed without analyzing the past.
Last year they ignored what happened and tried to merely move forward. Every other team wins on the final day (Brewers, Twins, Sox) and we repeat the same thing from 2007. I guess it may be coincidence, but you can’t close your eyes to it a third straight year. You have to analyze this entire organization top to bottom, game to game, player to player, and change what seems to be the issues. Adding talent just isn’t enough this time.
So what do you propose? Throw everyone on a red list and start picking names as to who should stay and who should go? We know last year it was starting pitching. This year it was the bullpen. So fix the bullpen. We don’t have a long relief or a closer anymore. Jerry Manuel did what he could by switching the pitchers. And Omar is developing from within. Who the hell knew Dan Murphy at the beginning of the season? Look at him now. Omar is sneaky, he just puts the “great” players out to the public like F-Mart but the man is a genius.
probably wouldn’t matter its destiny that we cant make the postseason with this group of guys. Changes are needed and changes i believe will come
It’s going to absolutely stink going on the blog and not seeing a recap with witty comments from Met fans. I know some take it alittle too personal the losses or a guy struggles but when the bullpen blew a lead or the offense didn’t show up, usually I went to the comments section for a good laugh.
You are right rockets, changes are needed no matter what kind of bologna Omar will try spinning the bullpen situation to us in the coming months. I think a change of scenery is needed for Heilman and Schoe needs to go as well. I’d give Sanchez another year along with Joe Smith and Feliciano. That’s all I would consider bringing back with Parnel auditioning for a spot in the pen.
lol very funny! I believe, and this is only my opion, that the Mets as currently constituted will not reach the postseason again in 2009. The atmosphere in the clubhouse has to change and should change. The bullpen has to be the priority not only through free agency but also through trades. The following is a list of players I would like to see wearing a Mets uniform next season and some of the current players we should get rid of:
Get rid of:
1) Luis Castillo. Not as effective as he was once due to injuries and at times it looked he lacked effort and desire. I like Luis but bottom line is we cannot have unproductive players next season. Very much OVERPAID!
2) Aaron Heilman. The most underachiever playing for the Mets this season. Heilman has good stuff, however he desperately needs a change of scenery! Man, he sux!
3) Scott Schoeneweis, all the big hits he gave up this season culminated with the biggest one this afternoon, yielding a HR to Wes Helms of all people. Get outta town!
4) Pedro Feliciano/ Ramon Castro…ineffective! Too many specialists in the bullpen. Get start from scratch and get some other lefty through FA or trade. I would also like to see Duaner Sanchez gone. I just don’t feel he’s going to be the same old Duaner of 2006.
5) What is Marlon Anderson doing occupying space in the dugout?!
I don’t believe the Mets will trade Wright, Reyes or Beltran. And they shouldn’t I think they should bring back Delgado.
Who to sign/trade for?
1) Francisco Rodriguez. He’s going to be expensive and there are a lot of rumors about his health and durability due to his delivery, however he’s worth the money. Our bullpen sux!
2) Orlando Hudson. Gold Glove defense, good bat and speed. Excellent #2 hitter.
3) get another outfield and strengthen the bench.
I agree 100% with you. Right on point. I would like to see an upgrade at catcher (although this is incredibly difficult to do). Also, I would love to see a guy like Brian Roberts in here at 2nd. I love the way he plays the game and he could bring some much needed heart and soul to the locker room.
One final point that everyone always misses: David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado, and Jose Reyes need to play less games in 2009. Remember back in the Bobby V days when the bench was so vital to the Mets winning consistently? That was beacuse they got at bats often. He didn’t just run 1 pinch hitter (like Jerry and Willie did with Marlon Anderson) everyone got a shot and the regulars got regular rest. It is more important than anyone realizes.
Maybe the Mets fans should have not opened their mouth and talked trash before the season ended, again. Maybe Beltran should have backed up his prediction. Or maybe, the Mets just weren’t even that good, and the only people that pumped their tires, was the Mets themselves.
Well, now the team has an entire off-season to perfect their dance moves and come up with more handshakes.
Good night’s sleep, Matt? I think I had the worst night’s sleep all season. What will I be doing tonight at 7:10? I need to get a life…
*
Jerry Manuel has done enough to return, and it’s clear to me the interim title will be lifted shortly.
*
Look for Luis Castillo, Scott Schoeneweis and Aaron Heilman all to be traded this winter.
*
Tom Seaver threw the final ceremonial pitch to Mike Piazza at the end of a riveting postgame ceremony. Pretty touching moment.
*
John Maine will have surgery to shave a bony growth behind his right shoulder Tuesday. It was scheduled for that day regardless of whether the Mets qualified for the postseason.
*
Best quote, not to rub it in: Scott Olsen, who limited the Mets to two runs and three hits in six innings, recalled walking through Times Square on Saturday dressed as a grape as part of a Marlins ritual to initiate its young players. “Some (Mets fan) stopped me and asked me who I was,” Olsen said. “I said, ‘I’ll be on the mound tomorrow. We shook hands and he said something to me. I was like, ‘Yeah, it’ll be sour grapes for you guys tomorrow.’ He probably didn’t believe me. I’m not that threatening when I’m wearing a purple grapes suit in Times Square.”
*
The final at-bat at Shea: With ex-Met farmhand Matt Lindstrom pitching, Ryan Church flied out to Marlins center fielder Cameron Maybin as flash bulbs popped throughout the crowd of 56,059 at 5:05 p.m.
*
Pedro Martinez reiterated his probable intention to pitch next season, but recognized it’s very likely to occur elsewhere.
nyd
Brian Fuentes (33)
Eric Gagne (33)
Eddie Guardado (38)
Trevor Hoffman (41)
Jason Isringhausen (36)
Todd Jones (41)
Brandon Lyon (29)
Francisco Rodriguez (27)
Salomon Torres (37) – $3.75MM club option for ‘09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Kerry Wood (32)
I would take atleast 2 players. I would choose k rod and brandon lyon. wood will get resigned so we cant get him
CAN WE STOP WITH THE FREE AGENTS RIGHT NOW?? WE HAVE 7 MONTHS TILL OPENING DAY. FOR GOD SAKES GIVE IT A REST
dude look what u posted on the comment above me.
“Look for Luis Castillo, Scott Schoeneweis and Aaron Heilman all to be traded this winter?
To me that is talking about the winter. I am just wondering what people think. You don’t have to get so offended. I am just as upset as you are but the season is over and we have to start thinking about the offseason.
I agree, Krod and Lyon would be nice. Also the 2 youngest, and probably most expensive FA RPs out there. So we’ll see.
K-Rod’s a must,
Forget K-Rod, get CC
todd jones retired so rule him out
Damn…I really wanted to see him coming out of the pen in the 9th inning to “Glory Defined”…
Oh well…
i feel like this is deja vu all over again…i feel like winter meetings were yesterday and all we were talking about was how we werent gonna get johan
I’m sure I’ll sleep like a baby. Waking up every 20 minutes crying
From Heyman…
Mets owner Jeff Wilpon said, “I feel totally different than last year. I think last year we underachieved. This year we overachieved.”
Are you kidding me Jeff, really? More than 1/2 of all the “experts” out there picked us to at least make it to the NLCS, especially with Santana. We overachieved? This is the exact reason why this organization is a bunch of losers, they are complacent with mediocrity, which is just unacceptable in NYC.
i agree with Wilpon. This team fired their manager, played .500 ball for over a year, and then turned it on for a few months while masking alot of flaws they had and we all had a false sense of hope. Johan kept that hope alive. I AM SAD THAT #57 WON’T BE TOING THE RUBBER FOR 7 MONTHS
I have to disagree. Everyone was expecting at least a division championship at the beginning of the season. We got Santana, and an upgrade in RF. In 2005, we won 83 games. In 2006, 97. Last year, 88. This year, 89. That’s an average of 90 wins over the last 4 years. On the outside, that’s a very respectable number, but in actuality, it is crap. Regardless of what happened mid-season, this team was supposed to run away with it this season, especially because of Santana.
At the beginning of the season, we had a completely different ball club than the one who ended it. The starting 8 on paper never played more than 14 games together. We did what we did with what we had to work with.
Only thing that didn’t change all season, and didn’t get the job done, was the BP – minus Wagner.
But the core of the team, Wright, Reyes, Beltran and Delgado along with Santana were there the entire season. Wagner was an irreplaceable loss but even with Wagner their bullpen was comprised of mainly specialists and that required Manuel to mix and match far too often. They never did have a good setup man. The Mets lost some of the complementary players but Tatis and the kids stepped up. It was also unrealistic to expect Church, even if he remained healthy, to continue at the pace he had at the beginning of the season.
The Rays lost some major players for long periods but still won the division. All teams suffer injuries. I won’t use it as an excuse to rationalize and accept another September failure. Unfortunately, ownership is.
If he thinks we “overachieved”, that means that he thinks the roster stunk and the players won more than they should have.
If he thinks the roster stunk, why the F did he give Omar a huge extension???
My thinking exactly.
Good point. I think if our season ended like this and we hadn’t had all of these injuires, we would have definitely underachieved. But with what we had for most of the year, you can’t say we didn’t do pretty well.
As I said before the Rays had major injuries and persevered. The Phillies had injuries to some of their better players. All teams have injuries, some more and some less but the Mets kept the core of Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Delgado and Santana reasonably healthy.
If you believe the Mets did well because of the sustained injuries then the Yankees must have had an excellent season. At one time or another they had Jeter out, A-Rod out, Matsui out, Damon out, Giambi out, Wang missed most of the season and Posada out.
give it a rest
Man, the end of the season is gonna take a while to sink in. I can’t believe its really over. Unfortunately, the only other team i consider myself a die-hard fan of,,is the Knicks :(
I am looking forward to somebody knocking the Phillies out ASAP.
Wont be milwaukee, they are a bunch of stiffs too and will be swept immeadeatley
The Phillies and Brewers are both terrible.
The Phillie trolls are enough for me to hate that team and I’ll celebrate when they are knocked out.
The Brewers remind me of Selig, screw them.
The Cubs are the Red Sox of the NL, screw them.
I hate the Dodgers, but I guess I’m rooting for them, at least until they play an AL team.
its funny but i follow your logic almost exactly…i may not watch too much of this stuff however with football and all…
What should the “slogan” for the 2009 Mets be?
“At least you’ll have a cupholder on your seat as you watch Collapse v3.0!”
That would make sense if there was a Collapse v2.0.
3.5 game lead, 4 in the loss, with 17 to play is a collapse. The way they played down the stretch? Yes, this was a collapse. Not as big as last year but a collapse nonetheless.
You do realize that a 3.5 game lead could be severely cut with a simple 3 game sweep? That’s hardly a collapse.
Yeah, I don’t see anyone referring to the White Sox as a “collapse”. That was even more. Plus, the Brewers had an even bigger fall. This was no collapse.
its not a “collapse” – we were just not good enough
they gave it their best shot – cobbled outfield, patch work bullpen.
we need to get better – only position players that I would not touch are Jose, Wright, Beltran and Murphy – everybody else should be on the table.
No player is untouchable. There was 56,000 screaming fans today….old timers….last game at Shea ever…MUST WIN…..and we mustered 4 hits and bullpen gave up 2 late Hr’s…If the Mets weren’t going to win today, against a pitcher they always crush, when were they going to win? Seriosly..
There is something wrong with the fiber of this ballclub, not sure what it is…..could be that outside Johan (who plays only once every 5 days), no one has a sac on ‘em.
Jesus, are we getting an early start on our ‘09 pessimism?!
“New Year!
New Ball Park.
Same Old Team.” :)
I have mixed feelings and I know people will get on me for this. I think we had the makings of a championship team. People say the offense didn’t perform, but look at the seasons we got from Delgado, Wright, Beltran and Reyes. With contributions from the rookies and guys like Tatis and Easley, we had a solid offense. The starting pitching was great anchored by the best pitcher in the game. We saw the emergence of Mike Pelfrey and I think we saw that Ollie can be “consistent” to some extent. IN addition, I think Manuel is great and did everything possible to put this team in a position to win.
I know people will disagree, but I blame this entire season on the bullpen. It is obvious, but they were atrocious in the second half and basically blew the season. You can’t have 30 or so blown saves and be a playoff team. That falls on the pen. They failed to hold leads, and in games like today, they gave up additional runs and took the team out of the game. All of the pressure was always on the offense to “outscore the bullpen.”
I’m not sure how I feel yet, but obviously I’m miserable.
Well said. And yet, if you take a step back… we lost our marquis closer mid-way through the season. Yes, Wagner blew some saves, but how many of those were because he was ailing? Not many teams could survive that kind of hit. From one point of view, it’s amazing we competed as well as we did without him.
Um…it’s “marquee”
I understand you where at the game i bet. I was also at the game and i believe your 162% correct,,,,
Hope we can do it NEXT YEAR… LETS GO METS….
I completely agree with you. If the pen only blew 15 saves instead of 30, we would have run away with the division. I know the offense wasn’t clutch over the past week but I blame the pen also. I never want to see Heilman or Shoeneweis in a Mets uniform again,
Wright’s numbers this season were very hollow, never a big hit when it counted all season, batted .243 with RISP. Reyes had another horrible September; he struck out 15 times, the 2nd highest month total for him of 2008. Delgado came through when he finally got going. Beltran had another typical season, minus a few homers.
Besides Santana and Pelf, the starters were awful. But even so, Santana needed to step up back in June and July instead of coming out after 90 pitches. Pedro broke down, when he never should have counted on in the 1st place. Maine had a mediocre season at best until the injury. Ollie got some money in arbitration, and knew if he had an average season, Boras could get him the moon in the offseason.
Manuel does get some blame here too. His misuse of Kunz was asinine. You’ve got a bunch of relievers set in their ways and a kid that no one has ever seen before, but yet you ask all the relievers to switch roles and leave Kunz riding the pine and carrying the Hello Kitty backpack. Also, his constant need to keep sending out the same clowns (Heilman, Sho, Feliciano, Muniz) when he had guys like Parnell, Al Reyes, and Knight sitting there taking up space, was horrible too.
The bullpen does get most of the blame, but to leave the offense, the starters, and Manuel off the hook, you just can’t do that.
I really love the Mets. Really F’n do. It’s going to be so sweet when the finally do win another world series, I think I’ll celebrate double hard to make up for the past few years.
Goodbye Shea, you helped define my childhood.
LGM
When do you think that will be? Will we all be alive to see it? If watching the 86 team get cheered and showered with love an affection in 2006 was NOT enough to motivate this team or playing the final game of SHEA STADIUM with all the METS GREAT watching was not enough to pump them up, then what hope do we have? CHOKE, they are the new Red Sox
Hopefully you won’t be there to see them get the next one.
they are hardly the new red sox dude shut up.
THe Red Sox have won 2 of the last 4 World Series. I will take ‘next Red Sox’ in a heartbeat.
Amen brother
theyre not the new red sox. the red sox would make the playoffs and lose.
testing
Initially, I thought doing the ceremonies after the game was a terrible idea.
But, in the very end…I’m glad they did it that way. It allowed me to partially get away from what I just witnessed and to cheer the men that have provided me with many memories over the years.
I’m excited for Citi Field, but I will always miss Shea Stadium.
…only 189 days until Opening Day 2009 :(
Ah well. Matt is correct that this is going to be a very interesting, and important, off season.
The core of this team, + some of the young guys that got a taste (Neise, Murphy) is still very good, and pretty young.
Just make the right moves. Clean out the dead wood, get a couple more prime time players, and, if they can manage to stabalize the pen, run away with the division .
Actually, the key to fixing the pen might just be:
fix the rotation!
Meaning, more 7-8 inning guys. Less Ollie/Pedro 4+ guys. And if Maine comes back strong, maybe he will make the leap in 2009 too).
Garland could be a great pick up. With Santana and Pelf regularly going deep, 1 more horse and the pen gets way less exposure.
That, and replace some of the specialists with actual strong arm (power) guys that can pitch a whole inning, against lefties and righties.
oh well. 1st they decide on the manager, then the fun starts.
Jerry is OK, and if they give him a pen, could do fine. But I wtill wouldn’t mind seeing a whole new regime (manager + full staff) just to clear the air.
and plese, get rid of at least 10 or so guys. The usual suspects (AH, Schoe, Castillo) + easley/A Reyes/marlon, maybe castro (if not Schneider), pedro F, Pedro M, and Ollie if he gets crazy offers.
Omar, get to work and earm your extension!
When you look at the stats for the season, it is quite obvious that the Phillies won the Division because of the comparative work of the two bullpens. The Phillie bullpen ended up #1 overall in the NL in ERA with a 3.22 ERA. The Mets,11th at 4.25. The Phillie bullpen gave up only 37 homers all season. The Met bullpen, 58 with the two today. They gave up 21 more homers in only 10-15 more innings. Considering the two ballparks the two teams play in, that is staggering and really came into play when the difference in batting average against the two bullpens is only .007. .258 against the Mets. .251 against the Phillies. The Mets blew 29 saves. Th Phillies only 15. It all came down to the bullpens. The Phillies had a very good one this season. The Mets a very bad one.
BTW, the Mets ended up scoring more runs then the Mets. In fact, the Mets ended up second to the Cubs in runs scored with 799.
Phillies = no blown saves
that’s the reason
Good job this year, Matt.
I know I am stating the obvious but the problems begin and end with the bullpen. The offense came up short late in the season, and particularly in this last series, but blaming this failure on the offense is like blaming a loss on the guy who made the last out.
Consider this: when you look at the “core” position players on this team (Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Delgado) it has been the same guys for the last three years. In 2006, the bullpen was good and the Mets coasted to the division title, winning by 12 games. In 2007 and 2008, the bullpen has failed miserably and the team has gone down with it. I hope the powers that be don’t complicate something that really isn’t complicated at all. The “core” is fine. Fix the pen.
How you do that is another question all together.
You feel ONLY jerked around by this team the past 2 year Cerrone? I guess thats the most unprofane way to say it.
I posted this first in the post-game thread, but its probably more fitting here
Ok…allow me to vent. I have gone through a vodka-aided full range of emotions…shock, to anger, to sadness, to acceptance and preparing to 2009…
First of foremost, I always said that you started to clear up the problems with this team by firing Willie and then if they still failed, the arrows had to point to Omar. Well, here we are and its time for Omar to answer to all of us for the 2nd season of gut-wrenching disappointment. And speaking of Omar, where has been all weekend? No statement, no interviews…just like the team he put together…GUTLESS! How can the Wilpons even think of giving this man an extension?!?!?
Secondly, that ‘pen needs to be revamped. Bye Heilman, Schoe, Feliciano, Sanchez, etc. I would consider bringing back Ayala, but not as the closer. Stokes stays, Smith stays. We need to go get K-Rod. Why not…everyone hates us as is…what are a few more fist pumps.
Thirdly, we need arrange a search party for David Wright’s balls. The guy completely wilted under pressure. All the face time and politically correct quotes did nothing for him. Man up and do something in a big spot.
The Carloses…I was wrong about you guys. Delgado, that was an unbelievable turnaround. Here is your reward…we pick up your option and you get to suffer with us one more year. Beltran, 2006 is not forgotten, but you are taking the right steps to redeeming yourself. Way to try to will this team to the playoffs.
Daniel Murphy, go to AZ and work on your second base defense. Castillo go enjoy your money somewhere else, but I think (and hope) that you have put on that Mets jersey for a last time. Easley should get a contract just based on versatility. He becomes next year’s Marlon Anderson. I don’t know if you think about bringing back Ramon Martinez.
We need to get 1 reliable, power-hitting corner OF. I throw my hat into the Manny ring, but I don’t know if he’ s coming here. In the meantime, Church, rest up, shake it off and come back strong next year.
The rotation needs to be Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, ???, ???. After the last 2 outings, I can’t imagine Perez demanding/requiring that much, but who knows. But I make him a mid-range offer and see where it goes. I think Neise could be the 5th guy. He’s got good stuff, but is still raw.
As for Jerry, unless there is a total revamp of the club (ie. one of the big 3 are traded), I bring him back. He did as much as he could without a closer, only 3.5 real starters, and numerous injuries.
OK…that being said…LETS GO METS!!! Thank you to all for giving us something to talk about for 10 months out of the year. Thanks for Matt and the staff for keeping us up-to-date (even if we know that some of the reports are skewed by Mets propoganda). And a special thanks to that old dump we call Shea for all those great memories. Sure it was a dump, but it was OUR dump.
Here’s to a new beginning at CitiField…LETS GO METS!!!
Yes thanks Matt! This blog is just hilarious and the most fun reading I’ve had in years. To watch your team choke at the end two years in a row was priceless. The bickering and venemous comments made by your fans towards your players was pulitzer prize worthy. Cheer up , your armpit stadium will be gone and you can all sit back in your flushing toilet (meadows) hole and cry in your beers.
….and we can enjoy watching the freakin phillies go down in the first round for the second year in a row…
We need to get 1 reliable, power-hitting corner OF. I throw my hat into the Manny ring, but I don’t know if he’ s coming here. In the meantime, Church, rest up, shake it off and come back strong next year.
_______________________________________________
Fernando Martinez anyone?
Maybe. I just can’t rely on that. Personally, I let Nick Evans and F-Mart battle out for the 5th OF spot (is Endy still under contract?)
What about Tatis y Pagan?
what about angel pagan?
well said.
FMart
Tatis
Pagan
SHOULD NOT BE MAJOR PARTS IN 2009
Bench parts only (FMart in the minors)
Lets get some qulity players instead of relying on retreads and kids, m’kay. We can afford it
Tatis and Pagan…………neither that good.
ok you got a lot of good points, but how can you talk about sending murph to AZ? he has arguably been the most clutch met hitter besides delgado since he was brought up.
Arizona Fall League.
AZ fall league! Off-season training for next year.
good post, but beltran can’t be blamed for ‘06 just because he made the last out. he had an mvp-caliber year.
as for the phillies fans posting on here: stick to your own disgusting city (or south jersey) and your own blogs. can’t wait until you melt down in the playoffs.
honestly, I’m not that bummed. I’m mostly just sad that i put so much time into this team AGAIN, and was let down. But they don’t deserve to make the playoffs, and winning today, and tomorrow wouldn’t have magically fixed this team and made them championship quality.
Sorry, if they got in, they WOULD have deserved it.
Whether or not they were going anywhere with that pen is another point all together.
I said it about a week ago: If we did get in, it would be like ‘Great, but what the hell do we do now’??????
False.
I’m not happy that the comments I’ve heard so far from Omar and Jeff Wilpon seem to be rationalizing the fact that we missed the playoffs. I think that to have a successful offseason, they have to admit that the end of the season was a failure and a major disappointment.
Aside from obvious issues (BULLPEN), this team needs to bring in some proven winning personalities the same way they brought in Carter and Hernandez to put them over the top. Omar has alot of work ahead of him.
P.S. Is Ollie Perez a type “A” free agent?
AGREED.
I mentioned on the other thread, we can’t underestimate how this bullpen impacts the entire club. You can’t have successful at-bats when you don’t trust half your team.
But we also need leaders, and if that’s not going to be Wright and Reyes — though it can be, if they step up rather than letting Delgado and Beltran and Marlon Anderson (ugh) lead, we need to import leaders.
The key differences between this club and 06 are the 06 team had Valentin, Floyd, and LoDuca.
You can’t underestimate the power of those kind of guys (though LoDuca was a whiny brat by the end of last year).
Can’t stress enough how much we’ve missed Valentin. I wish both he and Pedro would come back to coach for us.
You are right about Floyd…this team still has no clue how much it misses him off the field.
There are gaping holes at 2B and LF on this team. Hopefully Murphy can fill one…the other needs to be filled by a big-time leader.
Agree, but who? Perhaps a couple of those personalities are bench guys. Hate to defer to the Phillies, but guys like Werth (bench guy last year) and Dobbs. They also need a Wally Backman/Dustin Pedroia type of player. A cocky SOB.
Hey if we get K-Rod next year who will be #57?
Johan.
When you look at the stats for the 2006 Met bullpen versus the 2008 bullpen, the differences are staggering. The ERA in 2006 was one run lower in 50 more innings and they gave up 6 less homers. The WHIP was .2 less . They walked 30 less batters in 50 more innings. Feliciano’s ERA was 2 runs lower. Sanchez’s and Heilman’s were 1.7 and 1.6 lower respectively. Heilman and Feliciano actually pitched more innings in 2006 than they did in 2008. Had they pitched somewhere right in between 2006 and 2008, they would’ve won the division.
im not that upset, here’s why:
there is no way we couldve gone anywhere in the playoffs with our bullpen
if we made it to the playoffs, we would have just watched our bullpen blow games left and right.
i got your autograph tonight, thanks. :)
NICE!!!
I was there for his Grand Single.
More upset with 2007 because I felt that team played on cruise control almost the entire season and felt that it should be handed to them. This team had a lot more obstacles to overcome and bounced back from many a gut wrenching defeat this season only to be undone by a bullpen that could not be trusted in the end under any circumstance. Even when they were up by 4 or 5 runs in the 9th, you never felt safe. Think about it. In the last 50 games, how many laughers did they actually have? How many games were shaping up as laughers only to have the bullpen make it interesting in the end even if they did win?
Yeah, sad to say, you’re right. And several of us have been voicing that opinion for a month. But oh how I would have loved to see them try.
agreed – it just would have felt a wee bit better if we made it to tomorrow.
The best part of this second consecutive late season collapse would only come if they give K-Rod a blank check.
A “collaspe” implies that the team was in complete control of the division to begin with. They were not. In fact they did come back in mid season after being 8 games back.
So I would call it a fold – not a “collaspe” – little different – but it still feels bad.
Here are some bright spots to come away with from this season though:
The emergence of Pelfry as a legimate big time pitcher.
Daniel Murphy as a future home-grown star
Jon Niese as a future version of Koosman
Ryan Church as a gamer
Delgado – earned his right to return – especially as the alternatives for 1st base on the open market are worse.
and finally – Johan
There is a lot to build off of here. We close out just a third of the games we blew and we win the division. That’s nothing to sneeze at.
The Bullpen needs a complete overhaul top to bottom with the addition of a dominant closer (K-Rod)
I’d add K-Rod – sign Manny to a 2 year deal until F-Mart is ready (unless Vlad is cut loose) and sign some new arms for the pen
Though I doubt it would happen, I think it would be awesome if before they tear Shea down, they make markings where some of Shea’s best plays occurred. Where Swoboda made his catch, the exact point that the ball rolled through Buckner’s legs, where Endy made his catch, where some key home runs landed, etc.
And they leave those markings in the parking lot.
If you read the Daily News feature article on Shea’s history on their website, it mentions at the end that Ron Swoboda suggested this too. He would like a marker to be placed where he made his catch. When he dies he wants his ashes to be buried there!
They are going to leave the field marked in the parking lot. I like your idea…plaques in a number of spots marking some of those plays.
This is a tough day. Putting aside the disappointment of the season, I was not prepared for how surreal it was to walk out of Shea for the last time. By my count I’ve been to 159 games at Shea over 26 of my 34 years…I look forward to a new Stadium and know it is time, but to think of never setting foot their again is certainly bittersweet.
This team, woth this pen, was not going far. I really just wanted at least one more playoff game in Shea, to feel the place rock once more. My prevailing emotion right now is not for the 2008 Mets, it’s for Shea. I’ll miss it.
This is terrible. I feel as if this whole season has been a waste now. Another postseason without are team in it, but why couldn’t we have just won today. I was hoping a win today would spark for a mind blowing ceromony, and the past Met greats would lead us rockin’ into tomorrow. I suppose I was wrong. The other thing that drives me off the wall is how much the Marlins enjoy this. Like okay you won all they should be saying is we want to go out on a good note and play spoilers. Nothing else. I am so dissapointed.
You know what? A month ago the Marlins were in the thick of this race. And if they really see this season as a success because they knocked the Mets off after they already fell out themselves, they will continue to be a team of losers. They have nothing to feel good about. They may have kept us from making the playoffs, but were were alot closer than they were.
I hope they enjoyed their little ‘victory.’ Because they did, I’m not afraid of them next year.
yeah pathetic. If they got “up” for their games that actually counted like they do for these Met games, they might actually be a good team some year.
thats what my brother asked me too. Why can’t the Marlins play inspired all season.
Because they don’t want to win. They just want everyone else to lose.
Anyone going to watch Amazin memories on the cw 11 right now?
I saw it yesterday.
My Steps Towards ‘09
FIX THE BULLPEN, specifically get rid of Blowenweis, Heilman, Feliciano, and Sanchez
Pick up a solid innings eater for your fourth starter, give Niese a shot at the fifth spot
Make Murph a 2nd baseman (please god, make him be able to turn a DP)
Bring up Mr. #1 Prospect, Fernando Martinez, put him in left and hope he lives up to the hype
Pick up Delgado’s extenstion (would’ve never said that before June 18th)
NY Cuban said it best in get a search party for D. Wrights balls
Clear out the bench excluding Castro, he did slow down but I’m willing to keep him, and Endy
__________________________________________________
On a side note… Keep Evans, or use him as a trade piece?
I agree with everything except F-Mart, just because hes still only like 19 or 20. Give him a little time. But if he looks ready in spring training, by all means go for it.
I like Evans. I think he could be as good as Murph, and be the heir apparent for Delgado
Now let me add a few things.
Pedro and Ollie must go. If Burnett opts out, sign him. This is one of the top 3 possible moves we could make. If he doesn’t, I guess Ollie is still around.
K-Rod.
A whole slew of new relievers. There’s a pretty good crop of set up men/ middle relievers, so why not sign some good ones and get a bunch more minor league contracts?
please no burnett no more injury prone starters. no burnett and no sheets. garland, lowe are nice options for a 4-5 guy who can get you 7 innings and keep you in the game every 5th day. santana-pelf-maine-garland-5 starter is a nice solid rotation. the bullpen is most important though. Philly proved you dont need aces in your rotation if you have a shutdown pen.
That’s not nearly as good as it should be. WE DON’T HAVE A SHUTDOWN PEN!!!! I like Lowe and Garland. But Burnett would be a better option.
some pundits have suggested using Lowe as a closer as well ala Eckersley. Could be a good back-up plan if K-rod falls through
i think the Marlins enjoy beating the Mets is because the majority of their current players came up to the big leagues in 2006. That year the Mets clinched at home against the Marlins and Joe Girardi had the Marlin team stay in the dug out and look at the Mets celebrate so they can see how it would feel someday to clinch the division.
good point. Also, they’re all little punks.
Does anyoen know the songs played from todays closing cermonies ?
When the game ended I had a really bad taste in my mouth and wanted to walk away from the Mets until December, but then as I watched the closing ceremonies when Doc was announced and alot of the bad feelings went away.
It still stings, but watching how the faithful welcomed him back was amazing!
Where in SD are you?
Minaya nice job getting some quality pitchers!
Hey, Check out the sexy pictures of Rusty Staub and Minaya after the game at 1059therock.com
(sorry for venting my anger on separate threads)
dismantle this undescribable bunch of choking losers! tear it apart like the stadium! heartless,?i dont know, i guess they were trying, and i’m sure that their lucullian buffet or fancy dinner is tasting a little bitter tonight. gutless? for sure! They ruined a season and found away to ruin what the should have been a memorable celebration. What a way to completely f-ck up, on all possible fronts. At least the Yankees got their a$$es eliminated well in advance, and closed down their park with a nice win and a nice celebration. The mets closed out like this, with another miserable loss to the laughable marlins on the last day of the season. Once again, they do things right, we not only do things wrong- we do things worse than the most perverse hooror writer could envision. This team don’t deserve a shiny new ballpark, they should learn what it feels like to earn just enough for utilities, food and gas while doing something other than live the life and play around with a little ball. I’m not even gonna single out anyone (an excre-mental bullpen, a bunch of si$$y balless hitters). “You lose as a unit” eh Wright? Well tear up this pathetic unit thoroughly, don’t let it bring its stench of undescribable failure (which this ‘unit’ will never get off itself) to the new park. Last year, at least, they gave their spot to a truly fighting (albeit grossly inferior) philly team. This year (granted, they should have still taken the division..) they managed to give it to a team who’s tendency to choke and implode would have become legendary in its own right, if it wasn’t trumped by the masters… This team will never win. because 1) they’re proven, documented losers, 2) what they’ve done would only keep haunting them, in a perennial vicious circle of loserness. If you disagree then u really have too many stat sheets up ur a$$ and dont understand a thing about playing sports. it’s like a champion boxer who’s been knocked out bad, he may further perfect his technique, get into even better shape, but he’ll never be the same fighter again. And by the way I apologize for even remotely likening these tender, mediocre performers to fighters… DISMANTLE. COMPLETELY. I dont care if it means three years before we’re anywhere near competing (those three years couldnt possibly be as miserable as the last two). Also, a couple days ago I timidly defended Omar (I figured I’d be positive about him, since he’s already signed…), and now I hear that the first thing he said is “he’ll recommend to the Wilpons keeping Manuel”. ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Nothing personal, but not even if it’s as a janitor. Mark my words, whenever the Mets let him go (hopefully tomorrow) the man will certainly never get another managerial position in MLB again (as he hadnt for the past 8 years). heck, even that division 3 college team might revoke its offer.. And I wont even get into the specifics of why I think that (especially the past month, and especially with the pitchers) he did the worst managing job I’ve ever seen. A collapse like this should suffice under any circumstance. And with all the bad karma of “history repeating itself” we’ve just witnessed and keep talking about, after re-signing willie last year you’re now gonna re-sign this incompetent schmuck (who happened to be Willie’s bench coach) ??? Please Wilpons, please. Dismantle this core, this culture of unspeakable failure, and, yes, BRING BACK BOBBY V!
I suggest 20mg of Prozac taken on a daily basis. Oh and try to get a life.
Did anyone tape/tivo/etc the postgame ceremony?
Unless I am reading SNY’s schedule wrong, they don’t seem to be replaying it, and i was on the train home from the bar.
I would be happy to pay you for mailing a DVD, or emailing it, or whatever.
After hearing Shoe say “there’s certainly more important things in life,” I never want to see his face near New York every again.
There are more important things in life. His fourth child was born prematurely this week.
I hope for the best with his family. It is more important than baseball.
BUT he takes A LOT of money and doens’t do his job. That’s not cool.
Understood – but even before I heard this comment I wanted him off the team. See ya Show.
If how any sports team does on the field is the most important thing in your life, I kind of feel a little sad for you. You mean no individual or career is more important to you. The outcome of a ballgame is more important to you than the health of a family member or friend? I’d trade any number of championships to have my parents alive and healthy again. Sports are important as a release but it shouldn’t be the most important thing in your life. No one died today because the Mets lost today.
Ok, but to basically blow off an entire fan base when you’re basically the goat of the game, if not the season? Not cool.
Didn’t Glavine say the samething last year?
When Billy Crystal said that baseball was the background music in his life, I think that holds true for a great deal of us. Like a song can trigger a memory – so does baseball. The Mets have been a part of my life since 1983. As a seven year old kid I began rooting for a team that has brought more heartbreak than joy, but I have no regrets. Today was a day I’d rather forget, however.
THIS Mets team, the team from ‘06, ‘07 and ‘08 have been an integral part of my “escape” from the grind. After the heartbreaking loss in game 7, my wife and I watched the Mets beat the Braves in the beginning of 2007 from her hospital bed during the course of 3 full days during the (complicated laden) birth of our son. It was a tremendous release from the stress and worry.
When our son was in The Children’s Hospital earlier this year, my mother literally forced me to go to the game and have a few hours to myself and forget things.
Baseball isn’t life, but it’s a great release from it. Some people drink and smoke, do drugs, have hobbies, etc. I have the Mets. Today was very hard game to watch. I thought for sure the ending would be different this go-around after Endy made that catch. In the end, like the previous two years, it wasn’t meant to be. It’s heartbreaking.
elliott smith committed suicide by stabbing himself in the heart with a knife.
now i know how he must have felt.
I remember collecting what seemed like thousands of coupons that they used to have on DairyLee milk cartons that you could trade in for tickets. My dad used to take me and a couple of friends to games on these tickets. Those teams were pretty mediocre to bad, but when you’re ten years old, seeing a major league field up close is just about the coolest thing. My memories of Shea will be good, if just for the childhood stuff. Otherwise, blow the place up. It’s not Wrigley or Fenway, or even dare I say it, Yankee stadium
Don’t care about how bad the bullpen was…..
Wright and Reyes just had filler stats this year. Neither played well when this team needed it most.
Yep, they just NEVER came thru down the stretch.
I’m frankly so pi$sed off at REYES. Hate the guy right now. He’s the poster child for this team, the reason why fans in every other city hate us and why teams gun for us.
Listen you dancing A$$hole, try winning something before celebrating!
I’m not one of the people who wanna ship him out, but he needs to curtail his childish antics.
10 things I think I think…
1. Ted Berg of SNY and MetsBlog.com makes me look skinny and I’m pretty big.
2. Omar is a snake oil salesman. Only the Wilpons are buying.
3. Willie Randolph must be laughing his butt off!
4. Great bullpen. They make Doug Sisk look like K-Rod.
5. David Wright can finally shut the heck up with his lousy quotes. Never have I seen a guy talk so much and produce so little when it counts.
6. Carlos and Carlos.. yo hablo Ingles? Two of the worst leaders in baseball.
7. Jerry Manuel and his “gansta” talk. Oh yeah… my kids love it when I call them Gangsta! Oh wait, anyone with half a brain would realize gangsta is not a positive term.
8. Ryan Church, you should’ve said your head hurts and sat out September. I’ve had a concussion before and if I missed work I’d get fired if I couldn’t do my job at the shop.
9. Schoeneweis is German for loser!
10. Go CUBS!
Agree with number 5. So much for being in control of your own destiny. The team had it, then lost it…then it was given back to them, and they blew it again.
It just really hasn’t sunk into me yet that this team isn’t going to be playing baseball tomorrow. I think I’ve missed 15 games this year max, it’s become such a huge part of my day. I’m so let down it’s not explainable.
That being said, one of the Reyes/Wright/Beltran combo needs to go. Everyone shot down my idea earlier of Tulo and HOlliday for Reyes and Fmart.
I don’t get why we wouldn’t do it. I don’t care who leads what in hits and what not, I want winners. Not stat fillers. Those two are gamers, Tulo with a great glove and good young leadership, Holliday does it all. Make the deal with the stipulation to have 72 hours to sign Holliday like we did with Santana.
Who knows if FMart is going to pan out. You get rid of Reyes and all the cr@p that comes with him, and get 2 winners. That’s what this team needs, winners. Plus a legit middle of the order presence that comes to play 162 games in Holliday.
I think I’d do it in a heart beat, one of the 3 needs to go, and I want winners.
No, you are an idiot. It is an awful trade. Tulowitzki has done jack. Every GM in baseball would take Reyes over him. Holliday’s stats are padded in Coors. I personally would want him, but not at the expense of Reyes and FMart.
screw F-Mart nobody knows what he’s gonna be anyway. Milledge and Gomez weren’t all that great why should F- Mart be any different. I was thinking a more Heilman and F-Mart for Holliday trade. Reyes is too valuable and it’ll be hard filling his spot.
Heilman and Fmart are NOT getting you Matt Holliday.
Yeah, we’re talking more about Heilman, Evans, F-Mart, and Niese.
No need to call names, I’ve defended you against many trolls before. How can you really say Tulo’s done jack? Atleast substantiate your claims instead of just name-calling.
As other poster’s have mentioned, Jose Reyes is single-handedly the reason why teams are gunning for us. We no longer take advantage of what he brings to the table. If he gets on, we don’t bunt him over, we don’t hit and run, our 2 hitter doesn’t take enough pitches for him to steal.
Delgado was a great story this year, but the past 3-4 weeks, he showed you that he can carry you at times, but he still has a propensity to swing at that junk in the dirt. To think he’ll produce what he gave us July/August of this year for a full year a year later is pretty ridiculous, in my opinion.
Beltran is nice but not really a middle of the order threat, I think he’d be better suited in the 3 hole.
I want a slugger locked up for a number of years, but I also want winners. Tulo hit 291 in his rookie year with 24 homers and 99 RBI. He tore his quad in 2008 and had a down year, but finished the year strong hitting 329 in September with a 389 OBP and 3 homers. Not to mention Gold Glove defense, a scrappy attitude that he brings to the table every day, and most importantly LEADERSHIP AND ACCOUNTABILITY. And he’s 23.
Oh yeah, and you get Holliday who hit 332 at home this year vs 308 on the road, 15 homers at Coors compared to 10 on the road. 25 homers and 88 RBI in 139 games isn’t too shabby, nor was a 340 avg on 36 homers and 137 RBI last year.
You don’t know how Fmart is going to pan out, it’s really not as ridiculous as you think man. You’re nuts if you think we should bring the same core back, something’s gotta be done. If you want to call me names, atleast give me something back to debate about, we can’t fill all our needs with “just free agent middle relief”. We have glaring needs, most importantly in the LEADERSHIP department, and I’m pretty sure these 2 willed their team to a World Series last year without much help around them.
You’re right on the name calling. But I think it’s safe to say that I’m short on patience today, haha.
You’re saying we don’t know how F-Mart is going to pan out? What about Tulo? He could be injury ridden the rest of his life.
Again, I would LOVE Holliday. But Reyes is one of the best and most exciting players in the game. I believe he is just as valuable as Holliday on his own.
F-Mart is just 19 (or 20), remember? Let him pan out as well.
Panning out isn’t working. I’m sorry. After last season, remember Wright took all off season to work out to prepare himself as a leader, to insure this wouldn’t happen again? You think you’d be making a few phone calls, making sure EVERYONE’s in the same boat as you in the offseason, making sure you remind your teammates how much it hurt, and how it can’t happen again. I’m not there, I don’t know if this happened or not, but I’m pretty sure it didn’t.
Now this offseason is about bringing in some real leadership. Reyes has all the talent in the world, but we need some players that make the players AROUND them better. I think Holliday and Tulo do that, and they fill 2 spots that we need help in, plus bring some leadership to this lost team. Losing Reyes hurts, but I don’t think we use him in the right way anyway. Now maybe in a few weeks I’ll back away from this, but I really don’t think we can bring back the Wright/Reyes/Beltran three headed monster again next year, somebody’s gotta go.
I think you’re wrong on trading Reyes and acquiring Tulu.
But I definitely support bringing in Holliday. Think about it. The Rockies have said they’d like Heilman. Why not use him in a package with F-Mart and Evans to bring in Holliday? I would do THAT. Plus, that would give us much more flexibility to be able to use Reyes the “right” way.
As difficult as it is to imagine this, I hope Omar tries to shop Reyes this off-season. I know he’s an electric player and I’ve seen all the stats about how the Mets win when he plays well, but truth be told that will be the case for any lead-off hitter. He would bring us a king’s ransom in a trade, and we might be able to use him in a package that’ll help us unload some of the other players we don’t want.
i agree completley that one of the 3 go…but the one that has to go is Beltran and ONLY beltran….Beltran doesnt give us anything that Reyes or Wright can give us for 10 years down the road
don’t trade the big 3! We can get K-rod/ Fuentes via free agency, and trading one of those players for Holliday ( just for 1 year btw) would be a total waste.
You don’t make teh deal for HOlliday unless you get a Santana-esque window to sign him long term. Otherwise you don’t do it. I wouldn’t trade Reyes for a one year rental, I’m not that crazy.
Not all our needs can be solved with free agency. There are 29 other teams that will be bidding with us for these players’ services.
I totally disagree. Name a center fielder with better numbers who is a better defender. What we do need are a couple of good corner outfielders who can do some damage at the plate.
Mets 2009 bullpen
Closer: K-Rod
Set up man- Brian Fuentes ( Can also be used as lefty specialist)
Middle relief: Smith, Parnell, Ayala
Longman: Stokes
much more solid bullpen
If we can’t get Fuentes, someone like Eddie Guardado or Jeremy Affeldt is available.
Affeldt is OK, Everyday Eddie is no longer everydayable. Way too old. Better off going after somebody like Beimel, Ohman, or Shouse.
Ayala is gone, and there’s no way we are going to sign Fuentes and K-rod. Get K-Rod and then sign some real middle relievers.
Smith and Parnell are the only 2 from the pen that should remain next year. Stokes really doesn’t have any business being in a big-league pen, even though he was nice for us for a few weeks, the past few he’s shown is just as prone to give up the homer.
what about kunz. can we please bring him up next year and actually PITCH HIM
Yeah, I was more talking about guys like that. Didn’t want to list like 15 guys. But, we should be talking to all of them.
Ryan Church single-handedly cost us the playoffs.
not really if the bullpen was even average for the NL we would have clinched a week ago. Sure Church hasn’t been good lately but nobody would care if the bullpen did it’s part!
30 blown saves says other wise dude.
That distinction belongs to Heilman
yeah he must have…by getting his brain scrambled twice while single handedly keeping us from totally falling apart during the beginning of the season…
I feel like half of you guys dont even watch the games…yeah the Bullpen was AWFUL…but the otherside of the team (the offense) DID FAIL
um yeah but the offense was like 3rd in the NL and the bullpen was ranked somewhere around 14th in the NL. hmmm… which one do we need to fix more?
we need to fix BOTH…and you cant go by how many runs the mets team scored…thats nonsense…the mets collapsed at hte end of the year where they DIDNT score anywhere near to 3rd in the NL…im sure they wer elike 15th in the NL in runs scored in september
yeah but the main focus has to be the bullpen. Bullpen comes first offense comes second. In terms of the offense the top of the order looks good it’s the 6 through 8 guys who are not looking good we need a good #6 hitter to move church down to the 7th spot.
Absolutely. May I suggest Magglio Ordonez?
Yeah, the bullpen needs more work. Yes the offense looked dead in many games but perhaps a new coach or player can change their hitting approach. I think the offense did enough this year to secure would-be wins but when a 5 run lead isn’t enough for the bullpen, you know what to fix.
You don’t watch the games…maybe you watched this weekend. But the Mets offense was solid all year long. Although baseball is a sport with a lot of games, the difference between a team that is great and mediocre is 5-10 games. It was the bullpen.
I couldn’t watch any of the closing ceremonies. Maybe I’ll be able find them online at some point. I just couldn’t bear it after that game.
I really like Jerry Manuel, but can someone tell me what was going through his mind with putting in Schoenweis in that inning? Weren’t right handed batters hitting like .350 against him? What the heck was he thinking?
I’m a Redskins fan, and they beat the Cowboys today in Dallas which is cause for celebration, but I could only muster minor happiness after this baseball team broke my heart yet again.
Metskin, another Skins fan here, and I couldn’t even enjoy the win. It took me 3 months to get over last year’s collapse, I wonder how long it will take me to get over this year’s choke job.
I am really sad.
I can’t get over it……………………again.
Forget about it. No way this team is going to be better than the Phillies or the Marlins. It needs to be changed from the core. Break it up and plan to win in about 2 seasons.
We’re already better than both if we revise our bullpen. Just look at the fact that if our bullpen had blown 2 less saves (out of 30) we would have tied the Phillies for the division.
We said that last year when we got Santana. Remember, we’re better than everyone else in the NL!!! That’s why we’re back in the playoffs again this year!
If it is that easy, why didn’t we do it? Look, we finished 3 behind Philly, and it would have been more if the Cubs didn’t lay down on Thursday. This team needs help in the bullpen, rotation, catcher, 2nd base, LF/RF and the bench.
Yes. But if we had Wagner, we all know we wouldn’t have lost at least two of those games.
How about this:
DUMP AGUAYO!!!!!!!!!
Bring back Bobby V!!!!!!!!
i would agree completely…hes my favorite mets manager ever.
but if jerry had a bullpen this year…we would have won the division.
jerry can take us to a championship, i would love to see him managing a complete team.
I’m disappointed we missed the playoffs again, but this team was so flawed we never would have gone deep in the playoffs anyway. I don’t think this was a collapse and I know if it wasn’t for last year no one else would call it on either. I also agree that most of this falls on the pen. When you watch guys blow 3 run leads or more time after time late in games it puts way to much pressure on the rest of the team. I know how deflating a feeling it is as a fan to watch the pen blow a game that was in the bag. I could only imagine how much worse it must feel for the rest of the team who went out and did their job. You can’t score 10 runs every game you need a pen that can pitch 3-4 innings in a close game without giving up the lead. I really hope the team doesn’t do something drastic to make big headlines in the off-season and looks more to just fix some of the leaks in this ship. This team has a real good core of players which is the hardest part to building a successful franchise all they need is the supporting cast around them. I know a lot of this has already been said and will be debated heavily in the next few months but these are my thoughts on what the organization should do.
• Beltran, Wright, Reyes, Santana, and big pelf are a good core don’t mess with it
• Gut the pen and get a new closer look at what the Rays did as an example this year they posted one of the largest drops in bullpen ERA in a season ever and they did it without spending a ton of money.
• STOP GIVING OLD PLAYERS BIG CONTRACTS!
• Let Perez go I like him but I don’t like him for 5 years at 15 mil get a innings eating back of the rotation guy to replace him
• Pick up a second basemen and a left fielder preferably with some power.
• As for Delgado I’m torn guess I really have to see who else is out there.
Not every guy you pick up to fill a hole has to be a big money all-star type guy just some good fundamentally sound players with a drive to win. I just don’t want to see them spend a lot of money on a guy who doesn’t fit in with the team and who will do more harm then good.
yes, yes yes, STOP GIVING OLD PLAYERS BIG CONTRACTS. It’s no coincidence injuries killed this team again.
They need to focus on starters and relievers. Obviously they need to vastly improve the pen, but they can’t continue to tax everyone in the pen with 80+ appearances. They need to find starters who can consistently go 6-7 and eat up innings. When you have a Pedro who gives you 4-6 each time, that wears on them. Maine did not give them enough length he was hitting 100 pitches in the 5-6th innings.
They need to clean house in the pen. Even Ayala and Stokes are expendable to me. Feliciano should be gone too, he’s just not very good.
So the GM and manager stay.
No accountability.
Only Willie got fired……….and only because he was stupid w/ those racial comments. Otherwise who knows how long they’d have soldiered on with him.
Manuel’s “gangsta” comments were stupid too. I think the guys is a goofball and I don’t enjoy his stupid chuckling, but he deserves the job.
Too many injuries and ineptitudes out of his control.
Then give him a 2 year deal only.
He doesn’t deserve additional job security at this point
Cant wait to hear what this phat phuck Francesa has to say..
I know that I’ll probably get killed for this, but I think Omar needs to take a look around the league and go to teams like Seattle or SF in need of a Franchise Player. The Mets are an organization usually built on pitching, and I strongly believe that we need to stray from this all-or-nothing offensive game and stack up our rotation/BP. This team needs a Doc-like young stud pitcher and Felix fills that void. Plus, Morrow would give us a very good 8th inning guy or potential closer if we can’t ink Krod. Wright has shown over the last 2 years that he cannot or is not willing to take a real leadership role on this team, as he has consistently folded in times of need down the stretch this year. Seattle is in need of a player like Wright to rejuvenize thier lineup and fan base. With all the money coming off the books, here are other players we should consider or make a run at:
Krod: Every elite team needs that great closer. The Angels don’t have a huge powerful lineup, but they’ve based their team on good SP and a great BP, which brings them to the playoffs every year.
Mark Teixiera: I really don’t think we should pick up Delgado’s option. He caught flash in a pan in the 2nd half and if he comes back with a post-2005 Delgado-esque 260-30-90, our lineup will take a huge hit. With Tex, we know he’ll bring GG defense, a 300-plus AVG, 30+ HR, and 100+RBI’s. Plus, he hit over 300 with RISP. With the loss of Wright, Tex solidifies the middle of our lineup.
Orlando Hudson: Gary Cohen was right, this team lacks a leader, but they can acquire one in Hudson. He’ll help Reyes and get on him if he slacks, as anyone who has played with Hudson says he’s a natural leader. The guy just helps chemistry, plays GG defense, and can hit over 300 with a high-OBP.
Put Murphy back to 3B in the AZL, and if he can become at least average, give him the spot. Murphy is the type of player we need. He plays hard, smart, and has a desire to win and be the best that he can be. This kid has the right attitude. While he’ll never be a star, Murphy should be able to hit 310-10-90 our of the 5th or 6th spot in the order.
Juan Cruz: Cruz had a great 2008 and if his 09 is anything like this year, he’ll be a great 8th inning guy. Pick him up for 2 years at 7-10 Mil.
Attempt to trade for Saltalamacchia from TEX: They have Laird and seem intent on trading Salty, he would bring even more yough to the lineup.
Start FMart in LF: I think Omar will do this anyways, as he has always been intent on starting Martinez at CitiField. If the kid comes even close to his ceiling, he could step in to that 5th spot in the order. Fmart’s ceiling is 320-30-100+, but if he can hit 290-20-90 next year, he’d bring a lot to our lineup.
This would be the 09 Mets.
Reyes, Hudson, Beltran, Teixiera, Murphy, Fmart, Church/Evans Platoon, Salty
Santana, Felix, Pelfrey, Maine, Niese
Krod, Morrow, Cruz, Smith, Parnell, Feliciano, Kunz/Burgos/Stokes
Chavez, Castro, Cancel, Easley
While the Wright trade is certainly unlikely, I think dealing him is definitely worth looking at if we can get the right young SP in return.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
NO.
You make a very compelling argument.
Haha, I know.
In all honesty, let me respond intelligently.
Listen, I love the Salty argument. I’ve been supporting getting him as well.
F-Mart should get more play next year, but I don’t know if he will be ready to start yet.
Juan Cruz would be a good pickup.
I like Orlando Hudson, but I personally believe he falls into the category of NO MORE SIGNING OLD PLAYERS. But, I could be convinced.
But David stays, no question. There is no such thing as empty stats if your team is in it till the end. If we win 5-4, what’s the difference between a two run home run in the 1st inning and a two run home run in the eight inning? We needed them both.
And I think Delgado was suffering from two things early on. One, he didn’t feel motivated/comfortable with Willie. And two, he was still recovering from injury, and his swing suffered. If you compare his swing then and now, it’s completely different.’
And of course we get K-Rod. :)
Salty is a great suggestion. Hudson is an ever better suggestion. Can’t move Wright out of 3rd (gold glove) Must get younger at 1st base. MUST get rid of Heilman……
THERE SEEM TO BE 2 MAIN ARGUMENTS RIGHT NOW ON THIS BOARD.
-the bullpen stinks but along with those changes, changes to the core such as reyes beltran wright (trading beltran is the only correct move) must be made for the 2009 season (CORRECT ARGUMENT)
-some people also argue that its the bullpen’s fault entirely for the collapse and that if we upgrade our bullpen we will be fine next year.THIS REASON THIS IS NOT A SMART MOVE is that yes…if we upgrade our bullpen we will make the playoffs in 2009. HOWEVER…with the core of our team right now…CAN WE REALLY EXPECT REYES BELTRAN WRIGHT to come through in a close game in the world series with all the pressure on the line…if this team EVER wants to win a world series….we cant throw out our same lineup in a HUGE game…they wont be able to scratch out a run…
Yes, I think they can. Why? BECAUSE THEY’RE ONLY 25!!!!!!! Wright and Reyes, that is.
well i would keep wright and reyes but i think trading Beltran is key
Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I love “The Core” of Reyes,Wright & Beltran but if you want to keep them together then you have to go out and surround them with clutch players and hopefully that will be enough. We all know the BP was the main reason this team didn’t make the playoffs this season so I won’t dwell on the obvious, but the offense has to take a small hit here. We have a bunch of players that put up nice ‘Stats” and individual numbers but collectively, as a team, they are not a winning ball club. Something is obviously missing. A new bullpen and a few Gutsy and gritty ball players can fix this train wreck pretty quickly.
Targets:
Rowand
Juan Rivera
Eckstein
Time to bring in some players with guts.
1 Pedroia is worth 100 D Wrights.
Meh, screw Eckstein.
Furioso- what are your thoughts on the Holliday/Tulo for Reyes/Fmart trade I brought up. I’d love to hear your input.
Earlier I also apologized for giving you grief about being so pessimistic, in reality I see you were just being REAListic, and my blind loyalty, and fixation that somehow they weren’t going to disappoint us, was hindering my judgment.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on how to fix this, along with sharing some of my ideas with you.
its not a bad idea…personally id prefer to unload Fernando MArtinez as quick as possible before we lose all value for him….but we dont even know Colorado would even do that deal
Depends on what you think of FMart really.
I don’t think many teams are as high on him as we are.
Get a RP in that deal somehow ;)
the issue isn’t guts.
the phils had a lot of trouble without all of rowand’s guts this year which made the giants great!
eckstein’s guts did sooo much for the bluejays then he was traded to the d-backs and they lost the division race to the dodgers.
the dodgers acquired the selfish, couldn’t care less manny ramirez and took off…because he has talent.
talent. this team didn’t have a closer down the stretch. that was the issue along with heilman and sanchez not being themselves. they need k-rod and a littel more help.
i’d also add to the offense as it puts less pressure on the bullpen.
I’d be happy with a rotation of Santana, Pelfrey, Garland, Maine and Niese.
It’s minor but I don’t wanna see Castro back here. The guy is always hurt and way too slow to be in the major leagues. We have no need for fat old players who are injury ridden.
I think that if we can get either Lincecum or Felix Hernandez and Brandon Morrow for Wright, we need to make that deal.
The Mets need to stop relying on their inconsistent sluggers and develop a top-flight rotation.
Imagine this:
Santana
Felix
Pelfrey
Maine
Niese
Krod
Morrow
Smith
Parnell
Feliciano (still like him)
Stokes
FA (Cruz/Seanez/Eyre)
I don’t think Wright is going anywhere.
morrow aint a bullpen buy, ordonez. He was closing while Putz is out because they were slowly stretching him out, a la Joba. But he’s started the last month or so and next season please believe, he’ll be in Seattle’s starting rotation to form what they hope to be a nice rotation.
We could absolutely use him out of the bullpen though. He’s proven to be very effective in the 8th inning.
I’d rather not. I’m almost thinking it might be interesting to get into the CC sweepstakes.
Could you imagine CC and Santana together? It’d really be nice to get a bonafide ace to put up alongside Johan.
I love Pelf, and his improvement this year almost lead me to buying an authentic jersey of his, but I really think he’s a #3 starter, Maine is a #4, and Niese is clearly our #5 similar to how Pelf was last year. I’m not in love with Burnett, and we obviously need to do our best to get K-Rod, but CC and Santana really sounds good to me.
I’d take a look at CC, but I wouldn’t want to get into a bidding war with the Yankees.
If I’m Omar, I’d make it a necessity to ink both Krod and Tex. Just like in 05 with Pedro and Beltran, Omar needs to scoop up some of the top FA’s with all this money coming off the books.
I’d be inclined to move Wright for Felix/Morrow or straight up for Lincecum, but that’ll never happen. I don’t like Burnett either, but I think a Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, Niese, Garland/other FA staff is very shaky. Getting a Felix or Lincecum type pitcher next to Santana would make us an elite team in baseball.
I don’t want Ollie back, I want the Mets to look for a possibly young SP to deal for.
Talk about not getting into a bidding war with the Yanks. There’s NO way the Yanks DON’T get Tex this offseason. Seriously, no way they don’t get him.
The Yankees will have a better chance of getting CC than Tex. Hank is still pissed that they didn’t get Johan, and CC would make up for that. I think Omar’s gonna get one of the 2. He’s going to have some serious $ to spend with over 50 Mil coming off the books.
I’m very anti-Burnett, I think we need to explore the trade market for a 2nd or 3rd SP. I also don’t like the idea of signing Ollie to a long-term deal. I’d be more inclined to get someone like Garland for less money and 1 or 2 less years.
On another note, what do you think about David Dejesus? His name has been on the trade market for a while now, and he would be a very nice 2 hitter behind Reyes. He’d be a nice alternative if we decide not to get Orlando Hudson. They put up very similar numbers albeit at different quality positions, and it’d allow us to start Murphy full-time at 2B.
I’d like that. But I don’t think that’s happening. Much more realistic to think about Burnett.
Out of curiosity, is Niese a lefty or a right? Don’t remember.
I wouldn’t.
I want a GOOD #5 starter.
Lets leave nothing to chance next season.
Say good bye to Jerry…….
who are we going to replace oliver perez with?
we should keep joe smith and get rid of the rest of bullpen.
i hope the mets make good changes during off season. =/
AJ Burnett.
They should fire Jerry, just for the Knife he put in Willies back…..
Willie is smiling now. ☺
jerry manuel obviously deserves to come back. it’s not even an issue. so does omar.
trading wright or reyes is the stupidiest, most idiotic thing ive ever heard .. wright is in the top 5 players in the mlb before even hitting his prime, reyes the same thing .. are you guys fu*king crazy ..honestly .. reyes wright beltran maine santana pelfrey are untouchable .. delgado needs to come back, he had a monster year he carried this team in the second half.. noone execpt smith back from the bullpen .. and a big time left fielder .. i say manny
Yep, just keep getting older, dishing out money, no concept of the future, and adding more tension, selfishness, and players who’ve shown they don’t give a cr@p to this organization. Smart…
Both of you are right, and wrong. Domo, you’re saying we shouldn’t get older. Then why should we ever even think about trading Jose? Manny should not come near this stadium until he’s suiting up in the opposing dugout. The more I’ve thought about it, the more I could be persuaded into a deal for Holliday with F-Mart. He HAS been injured some, and I would love Holliday. But no Reyes or Tulu involved, please.
I don’t think we can bring back the same lineup/rotation and just pick up a few BP arms and expect to be an elite team. We’d have to corner the market on all the relievers in order to have a great bullpen. We can sign Krod and Cruz, then look to other teams for some hard-throwers.
There is no chemistry or fight in our lineup. We need to pick up some high-obp guys like Hudson or Dejesus, because the Church/Schneider/Castillo thing we have going on just won’t cut it. We need to pick up scrappy role players like the Angels have, and make a serious run at Tex instead of Delgado. While I appreciate Delgado’s great 2nd half, he likely won’t do this again next year and if he goes back to 2007 Delgado, then our lineup is screwed. We need a new look in the middle of the order, and either Hudson or Dejesus plus Tex would really bring that.
I’m also strongly in favor of starting Fmart next year.
and as for manuel .. he absolutely must come back .. he did an incredible job with what he had .. which was a piece of sh.it bullpen .. willie got 4 years on his contract .. hes gone and now manuel should get 4
Jerry should come back. Imagine where the Mets would have been if he had started the season as manager. Willie Randolph is still the goat!!!!!
No, the goat title now rests with Omar Minaya. As it should.
Jerry will be back guaranteed. Not his fault his guys lack stones. I just wish he could wait one day before his chuckling with the media. He tries tomake friends with the media so they don’t attack him.
How is getting another great starter gonna help this team win when the Met bats come up quiet every time they have a big game? Aaron heilman will always be blamed for giving up the Molina HR, but that “AL lineup” put up 1 run in game 7. It’s been the same ever since.
Gotta get some guts on the team.
You can’t have the team take the final weekend off. NOBODY stepped up and stopped it.
You think Victorino would’ve let that happen w/o comment? Or Rowand?
1 Victorino is worth 100 Reyes
thats a joke right?
Nope.
Who do you want up there in a clutch spot? Mr. pop-up?
You have to be kidding. Furioso, I did sort of respect your posts, but if you’re serious, I’ve lost all respect for you.
guys, the problem was not wright or reyes or their lack of heart. it was the BULLPEN!!!, get it through your head. we won in 2006 with the same core of players(reyes,wright,delgado,beltran). the problem was the BULLPEN!!!!!
We won what exactly in 2006?
The core IS a problem here. Maybe not the #1, but def, #2.
The players put up pretty stats, but
1) USELESS W/ RISP
2) USELESS W/ RISP AND 2 OUTS
3) USELESS AFTER THE 3RD INNING
4) USELESS IN SEPT
5) USELESS THE FINAL 3 GAMES
Murphy is STILL on 3rd.
They score him, we’re playing tomorrow.
At the end, the OFFENSE let the bullpen down.
Pretty stats…………but useless when it counted.
I guess we’ll be having this debate all offseason
And next year, 2006 will have been 3 years ago. Beltran and Delgado are 3 years out of 2006 now. We’re going to need to get another bat. To think Delgado will give us the production of July/August all of next year would be rather foolish. Things I’d like to see done in this order in the offseason. Not saying all will, but I’d like to think these should be our priorities in this order
This year it’s our bullpen, next year it’ll be our offense. Gotta address everything.
1) Do the Reyes/Fmart for Tulo/Holliday deal.
2) Sign K-Rod.
3) Trade Aaron Heilman for Dontrelle Willis. Then make a go at CC if possible.
4) Sign Brandon Lyon, Joe Beimel, and Will Ohman
5) Trade Schoeneweis, Castillo and Duaner for whatever you can.
6) See about a trade for James Loney involving a Nick Evans/Bobby Parnell package. Then if you get Loney, let Delgado go.
Ideally, I’d like the team to look like this next year, lineup wise:
2B- Daniel Murphy
SS- Troy Tulowitzki
CF- Carlos Beltran
LF- Matt Holliday
3B- David Wright
1B- James Loney
RF- Ryan Church
C- whoever, Schneider whatever
Staff:
1. Johan
2. CC
3. Pelfrey
4. Maine
5. Neise with Dontrelle as a project
Pen:
Smith
Feliciano
Beimel
Lyon
Ohman
Kunz
K-Rod
Seems a bit fantasy-esque to think that we’ll get all those guys, but with Pedro, Alou, possibly Delgado, Perez, Bobby Bo, Mo Vaughn, and hopefully Castillo and Reyes in my trade proposal all coming off the books, we would really only be increasing our payroll by about 15 mill per year. Which of course is easy for me to say since it’s not my money, but 15 mill a year doesn’t seem that much considering how the past 2 years have gone and how we’re going to a new park.
I hate the idea of this Tulo/Holliday deal. Holliday away from Coors just isn’t very good. Losing Reyes would kill our lineup.
I like the Krod, Beimel, and Ohman signings.
I would kill to get James Loney at 1B. It would be fantastic to get him.
Reyes is the one guy we can’t lose, he’s everything to this team. He just can’t carry it by himself. They need to add 1 or 2 consistent run producers in Tex and Dejesus/Hudson to get more consistency.
Holliday hit 3/5ths of his homers in Coors this year. Most players will probably tell you they play better at home. I don’t think Coors has a big of a deal as you think.
He also hit 20 points higher at home this year, still hit 308 on the road. I don’t think it’s as big a deal as you think.
Face it, man, the Tulo/Holliday trade isn’t working. Fact is Tulo is not half the player Reyes is. I’d love Holliday, and would trade FMart for him I think. But those are two separate trades.
I believe that it’d make much more sense to not sign Omar to an extension. Don’t fire him. But let the life of his current contract live out. And Manuel should only be signed to one year, but I guess two is alright.
We have to make something clear though. This isn’t about the Phillies. Screw the Phillies. The intensity of this rivalry has now taken a slide whether all of you realize it or not. It’s still there, but the fact the Mets haven’t gotten to the playoffs has taken much of the life out of it.
Maybe we felt like that last season because they caught us from behind, but this isn’t about the Phillies. This is about the Mets. So I don’t want to here about Victorino. Trust me, he’s not that ”tough” anyway. Let’s see how far Philly gets in the playoffs. Rowand on the other hand is ”tougher”, but the Phillies fans resentment towards New York market teams shows that they’re own ownership is too cheap to sign Aaron Rowand for what seemed to be a cheap price by the Giants.
How can we ignore the Phils?
They’re exactly what we need to learn from. And beat over the long haul.
Look at the “f**k you” players on that team.
The fight in that team is incredible.
The fight in our team, on the other hand….
Jason Werth is a gritty player. We don’t have anyone close to Werth. Omar needs to really do something out of the ordinary. Its not working.
Old injury riddled hispanics to the rescue in 09!
Pitching, Pitching , Pitching. That’s what it comes down to. Any High School coach knows that. It’s really that simple, period. 30+ blown saves, most in baseball!!!!!!
5 less (still horrible at 25 blown saves) and we’d be dancing in the streets tonight.
Yeah the offense looked “Unclutch” at times especially with men on 3rd and less than two outs, but they were still something like the 2nd best team in the league in runs scored!
Very hard folks to come to the plate and feel like “YOU” have to hit a three run HR everytime to try and outscore your own BP!!
Better BP and we would have run away with this thing. No real mystery here.
I agree, we need to focus our team on SP and BP. The Mets should model their team after the Angels.
This is why we should trade Wright for Felix/Morrow or for Tim Lincecum.
Santana
Felix
Pelfrey
Maine
Niese
Krod
Morrow
Cruz
Smith
Parnell
Stokes
Feliciano
That’s a very good staff and BP. We would be among the elite in the league.
If we can’t sign Tex to replace Wright, then picking up Dejesus in trade and Hudson via FA would be good moves.
Reyes
Hudson
Dejesus
Beltran
Delgado
Murphy
Fmart
Schneider/FA
That’d be a scrappy lineup that would fight and fight consistently.
There is no way this franchise trades David Wright. Not for Christ returned to Earth.
Right or wrong, he is our guy for the long haul.
Omar broke up that bullpen from 2006. I have no idea why he would break up something that worked so well. Darren Oliver is doing nice for Anaheim. I prefer Bradford over Smith. I just don’t get it.
This is insanity. I was at the game today – it’s a tough thing to deal with. But to just over react and blame our BEST players. What the hell?
Wright, Reyes, & Beltran are the BEST players at their position in the league. How can you really blame them? On Mike’d up just now the fat man puts up a stat showing Wright as 4-10 in this series and repeatedly calls him pathetic. That’s .400 and he hit .333 overall in September with a OPS over 1000.
THE CORE IS NOT THE PROBLEM.
People are just annoyed. For all Wright did this year, people remember what he FAILED to do. It happens all the time. What worries me me most is that the payroll will not be going up, so I don’t know how people still believe we can land Tex or K-Rod. NOT going to happen. This is what worries me the most. We got off to a terrible first half and it ended up costing up big time in the end. Thanks Willie, you still come back to haunt us Mets fans.
Not on Willie.
How about scoring a guy from 3rd w/ 0 outs?
THE SEASON DIED RIGHT THERE, THE REST WAS A SLOW BLEED OUT
Well, I called it right there at that exact moment. QWhen DWright struck out with Murphy on 3rd with 0 outs and after a 3-0 count, I turned and looked at my brother and saiod……….”Thats’ the season right there”. Even though it was only one out and we still had two more outs to drive in the run, I just knew in my gut it was over right then and there.
YES IT IS
Ignore it at your peril.
Can’t listen to the media. Their job is to create controversy. I agree that the media isn’t the problem, however, I also feel like there is no leader. Truthfully, the one person who has really grown this year, emotionally, is Beltran. To me, this is the man who should be given the “leader” mantle of this team. I don’t understand the media’s obsession with making Wright the leadr and the only basis is that he is well spoken and white. Beltran is the smartest player on that team and, now that he’s over 30, is a legit veteran that people look up to. When you listen to him talk, you realize how much he lives and dies with this team. How often he “loses sleep” because of a loss.
This might sound crazy, but I say that we give Beltran the “C” next year and let him take the lead. I feel like once he is thrust into that position, he will thrive and take the team to that next plateau. Delgado is not, and never will be, a leader. And wright just doesn’t know how to win yet.
Fair enough. Mark my words, though, Wright will be everything A-Rod cannot be.
Let’s take a look at something. The Mets dominated in 2006, right? The Mets dominated in the first two months of 2007. Than June 2007 comes. From that point on through July 4th, 2007 – approximately three weeks after Willie Randolph’s firing, the Mets played mediocre baseball.
The Mets than go 40-21 from July 5th through September 10th.
Look at that winning percentage for 2+ months. We were arguably even more dominating in July and August of this season than we were in 2006. We had winning streak after winning streak. A 10, a 6, a 4, a 4. We were hot as hell.
The Mets were 34-35 under Willie’s wing this season, 8-9 in Manuel’s first 17 and 7-10 in Manuel’s last 17. 17’s a weird number in this club I guess. We dominated even through Billy’s injury, a messy bullpen situation with loads of stolen wins from Johan, Pelfrey and Oliver. Oliver had 34 starts, but only 17 decisions this season.
The bottom line is we need to figure out how do we get back into that psyche we had in July and August. How do we play smoothly and be confident. How do we handle the pressure. We know we got the starting pitching, line-up and had a decent bench. Lots of guy’s out of the blue who filled spots when you needed them.
The obvious hole is the bullpen. It starts out with a closer. If Ayala or someone who was on this staff is the closer next season, than there’s no reason to watch. We need a new set up man. We need to trade Show, Heilman and Duaner for what ever we can. Than see if we can turn that around and get good bullpen depth. Hold onto Smith.
The only reason why the Mets will probably hold onto Stokes is because he doesn’t have a lot of trade value. Just because Stokes and Ayala did alright with the Mets doesn’t mean they won’t lose it. I want guys I get depend on. Not guy’s who I saw do horrible elsewhere and do alright here. How was Mota in 06? Than how was in 07? Marlon Anderson and Luis Castillo were good in 2007, right? How were they in 2008? Undependable seems to be the perfect word.
We need a closer. Its as simple as that. Can’t win anything without someone who can shut the door. PERIOD.
5 less blown saves and we’d be dancing in the streets tonight no matter how many times DWright leaves Murphy stranded at 3rd! Murphy, you still there? you can come home now kid, it’s ok! lol
So remember that one make up game against PIT that the worthless pen coughed up? HOW HUGE IS THAT LOSS NOW?
Or getting swept by the PADRES!!
That’s dating a little while back. That’s when we were in the mediocrity phase – something we obviously winded up coming back to. But yes, I agree. Randy Wolf has just dominated the Mets this season. I’d sign him just so he can’t next season lol
He’s another option for the Lowe/Garland spot.
I knew it was a huge loss. That 4 game series that we lost was just the worst thing that could happen. Teams win divisions by beating up on crappy teams! We didn’t do it, in fact, we turned into a crappy team everytime we played a crappy team. I just don’t get it.
Yes. I remember it. The Nady-less and Bay-less Pirates come off a horrible road trip. David Wright hit a 3 run home run early in that game to all those who criticize him, didn’t they? I think the ball bounced off the top of the ball. I don’t know if I remember it that well, but I know the Mets should have won that game.
I was thinking about that game yesterday. For some reason that game really struck me as one of the bad ones. As was the 8-1 lead we had on Philly or whatever it was. As was Tony Clark’s 3 run shot off Wagner, as was today’s, as was numerous, NUMEROUS others. I’m disappointed this season ended the way it did, but I kind of take solace in knowing I won’t ever need to see any of those bums in the bullpen again. Smith is the only one worth anything.
I think as Mets fans we all filed some games away as a game that would absolutely come back and haunt us. I was saying it all season long, if we keep giving games away, you can forget about the playoffs. All we did was give games away, and to horrible, pathetic teams!!!!!!!!! This will be a longer winter than the last one (unless the Giants win the Super Bowl again!)
GO GIANTS!!!!
I’m a Jets and Knicks fan. And I go to school at Syracuse.
This is going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong winter…
The Mets will go after K-Rod. The Mets got 30MM coming off the books even after picking up Delgado’s option and accumulating Johan’s pay hike – so it has to be someone. Whether it be Oliver, Lowe, Garland, Lohse or Wolf – we’ll be spending a decent amount to get them. It’ll probably range from 10 to 13 million. It’s either got to be Oliver or one of them. I don’t expect Dempster, Sabathia, Burnett, Sheets or any high cost name. We need guys who throw a lot of innings, are healthy and can keep there ERA around or under 4. In my opinion, that’s Oliver. Being young, lefty and exposed to all this already doesn’t hurt either.
Besides the Mets and Angels, who really is out there who’ll be interested in K-Rod? I’m talking about being willing to give up the money. I can see the Angels saying screw it if another team gets in. Detroit, St. Louis and other teams are possibilities – but most big market teams got good closers already. I think the Mets will sign him to a 4 yr/52MM contract. It may be a lot, but it’s worth the risk in my mind. They should also keep Kerry Wood in mind too. And Brian Fuentes. And if you can’t get any of them, than look at Street and Ryan. I don’t want Sherrill or Putz, but if that’s the only consolation than it’s alright.
Does anyone have a stat on how many first pitch balls the bullpen threw this year? I would take a gander that the mets bullpen has the highest percentage of first pitch balls than any other bullpen in baseball.
Probably right, seemed like they were always running the count to 3-2 putting oposing hitters in favorable counts.
1) Do the Reyes/Fmart for Tulo/Holliday deal.
2) Sign K-Rod.
3) Trade Aaron Heilman for Dontrelle Willis. Then make a go at CC if possible. If the Yanks are going to do everything in their power to get CC, settle for a guy like Lowe.
4) Sign Brandon Lyon, Joe Beimel, and Will Ohman
5) Trade Schoeneweis, Castillo and Duaner for whatever you can.
6) See about a trade for James Loney involving a Nick Evans/Bobby Parnell package. Then if you get Loney, let Delgado go.
Ideally, I’d like the team to look like this next year, lineup wise:
2B- Daniel Murphy
SS- Troy Tulowitzki
CF- Carlos Beltran
LF- Matt Holliday
3B- David Wright
1B- James Loney
RF- Ryan Church
C- whoever, Schneider whatever
Staff:
1. Johan
2. CC/ Derek Lowe as a backup option (I know, big downgrade)
3. Pelfrey
4. Maine
5. Neise with Dontrelle as a project
Pen:
Smith
Feliciano
Beimel
Lyon
Ohman
Kunz
K-Rod
Seems a bit fantasy-esque to think that we’ll get all those guys, but with Pedro, Alou, possibly Delgado, Perez, Bobby Bo, Mo Vaughn, and hopefully Castillo and Reyes in my trade proposal all coming off the books, we would really only be increasing our payroll by about 15 mill per year. Which of course is easy for me to say since it’s not my money, but 15 mill a year doesn’t seem that much considering how the past 2 years have gone and how we’re going to a new park.
Sounds good to me, at least it will be a drastic change to what has not been working so far.
Why in the world would the Dodgers trade Loney?
Haha, ehm, I don’t really have an answer for that. That was kind of a last minute addition, I kind of have a feeling we’re going to end up with Delgado again, but I’d really like to explore any possible way of getting Loney. He reminds me of Olerud.
They’re losing alot of pitching this offseason, maybe we could work something out with them, although I think that’s the least likely of scenarios I mentioned, but I’d love to get Loney.
Sounds good to me too. Though I don’t know about Murph at 2nd base.
I heard we could have made a waiver deal for Brian Fuentes by trading Heilman to the Rockies. Is that true?
I cant believe we lost..
The closer is important, but the bridge of how to get this is equally important. Depending on Luis Ayala – a guy who had a 5.71 ERA in 81 appearances is not who you can depend on. Neither is Brian Stokes who barely even pitched with the Mets this season. We need guys who’ve gotten it done before and who’ve done it consistenly. Even if it costs us trading Bobby Parnell or who ever.
I know signing old players isn’t always what you want, but the Yankees may not want Abreu back who’s still a solid hitter. The Mets could consider signing him and trading Church for some good set up men.
Duaner Sanchez is incapable of building a bridge. Forget about 2006. Thinking about 2006 is what caused the Mets the 2007 and 2008 mess. There’s been twice as much baseball in those two years as 2006, so it’s not much of a legacy to ride high off of anymore. Scott Schoenweis has trade value. Someone will take him off our hands and pay his salary. They get can a little back for him. And Aaron Heilman doesn’t have much trade value – but he just needs to be out of here. Out of the bullpen. He’s done as a Met. Even if it means releasing him. I don’t care.
Plan on using Parnell as the long man in the bullpen or look on the FA market too, hold onto Smith and Feliciano, sign K-Rod and look to build a bullpen around him.
Closer: K-Rod ; Righty Specialist: Smith ; Lefty Specialist : Feliciano ; Long man: Parnell or Stokes. Not and. Just one of those two. And the rest should be FA’s signed. Maybe one of two in Kunz and Burgos. No Carlos Muniz revolving door next season. Just sign decent middle men.
Giving up top prospects is worse than draft picks. Especially multiple prospects. So signing K-Rod is as much about having a great closer as it is not destroying your farm. We’ve finally got back to re-building it again after that Johan trade that we’ve thankfully come out as winners on.
Brian Fuentes has been in and out of the closer’s role so he’s not the most dependable option. Not to throw a lot of money at. I’d actually rather trade for Street than sign him.
There’s Bobby Abreu, Milton Bradley (yes, I know a head case) and Raul Ibanez (a guy who expressed interest in the Mets at the deadline) are all FA’s who hit lefty likewise to Church. Or Pat the bat Burrell if the Mets really wanted to burn the Phillies. Church can help us acquire some good set up pitching. Young pitching too. Possibly even a closer like Huston Street.
I really like Milton Bradley!!
Boy I’m glad I’nm a die hard Giants fan also, just like year, the Giants will help make me forget about this train wreck very quickly. Go G-Man!!
** just like last year****
I’m not even excited about the free agent market. I get the feeling no hitter they sign will pan out. Either they will fail or get hurt and bank rob the teams payroll.
I hate to be a typical met pessamist, but who do you really feel confident can come in and do a great job and make this team better?
I’m serious. We should sign Bobby Abreu, Adam Dunn, Raul Ibanez or Pat Burrell, trade Ryan Church for set up men or even Huston Street if it’s possible. Sign Abreu to a two year contract. He’s dependable. He’s hit well in the NL East. Milton Bradley is another option, but his head isn’t all there. Fernando Martinez will be ready by the time he is done here. He can go into RF, where his abilities will be better utilized. And Murphy can remain as the LF rather than getting put into 2B, unless of course he does well at it. It’d give the Mets more options with Nick Evans, Angel Pagan and signing a corner another corner OF.
Trading Church would really be like trading Milledge. I’d say Church has more value at this point anyway even after the concussions. It’s becoming more obvious Lastings potential is a solid player rather than a star.
PAT BURRELL? Are you drunk? I don’t want that bum in a Mets uniform. EVER!!!!!!!!!!
I would want him if the NL had a DH. Him in left field at Shea would be a horror, but it would prevent him from killing us as he’s done his whole career.
Now that I think about it, knowing him though he’d probably tank and be so bad it would end up killing us to have him on our team.
By no means am I agreeing about the Burrell thing, he can’t field and he has a homer-or-K swing. I would never want him on the Mets, I just no longer want him on the Phillies lol
Errrr, not Shea… In… Citi…
*vomits in mouth*
Pat Burrell runs like he’s running on a sheet of ice. Just Brutal.
Okay, I understand. I said Burrell was an option – not the best one. Remember, he’s a righty hitter. And yes I have seen him play poorly in the outfield. The same thing applies to Adam Dunn. There’s a good chance Burrell is out of Philly because of the length of a contract he’ll be want. The last thing the Phillies want to do is sign him to a long term deal and beg other teams for a half decade to trade for him.
I do believe Abreu and Ibanez are two guy’s worth taking a lot at though. Abreu’s played in both Philly and New York – two loud environments. Milton Bradley could thrive here too, but he could loss it all in a moment.
You must be kidding. We’d set the record for most strikeouts if we had Abreu, Dunn, and Pat Burrel. If you aren’t, then you’re a fool.
I didn’t say ”and.” I said or.
Abreu is solid. He’s had over 600 at bats and driven in at least 100 runs in each of the last two seasons along with playing 155+ games. He hit .283 in 07′ and .297 in 08′ even with the strike outs.
I would hesitate more on Adam Dunn. Statistically you may hesitate at Milton Bradley less too, but his mental approach is another thing. I wouldn’t prefer Dunn more so because he’s a horrible fielder. Adam Dunn has hit exactly 40 home runs in the last 4 seasons. And 40+ in the last 5. Along with back-to-back 100+ RBI seasons.
Signing Pat Burrell would be as much to take something away from the Phillies as it would be to help the Mets. Not just has the guy owned the Mets, but he’s had a great year. I would prefer a lefty hitter to replace Church though. Raul Ibanez isn’t a bad option either for a 2 year deal.
Hey, I’d sign Dunn or Ibanez if it didn’t cost us too much and we couldn’t get someone like Holliday.
DOn’t let Burrell’s 30 hr’s fool you. The guy stinks. We don’t need a guy who strikes out allthe time, hits .250 and can’t playthe field.
I’m wondering about this. If the Mets would’ve won today but lost on Monday, would all of you feel the same as now? I’m just curious.
Won’t know until it happens. It would have been nice to have that option. But we didn’t so we have to vent our frustration.
Depends, did the offense show up on “Monday” and we just got beat by a better team? Or did we roll over and play the most uninspired baseball possible as we did today?
Well, don’t know. Couldn’t tell you. I could tell you that we took care of the Brewers in their house, and we wouldn’t have seen C.C. So, maybe it would have been the best thing. All I know is that I really, really hope we don’t have to play the Marlins last weekend of 2009. They love to hate. I can’t stand them!
NEW YORK — The Mets have decided to bring back Jerry Manuel as manager despite the disappointing end to their season, SI.com has learned.
Yeah, lets see how well that works out. Can’t be as bad as that clown Art Howe right?
Jerry Manuel is a good manager in my mind but time will tell if he’s the right one for this club. If Omar remains, I say he should. However, if we want a new era which doesn’t seem like it’s coming soon – than we should rid ourselves off all of this personnel.
Art Howe was a horrible manager. The Mets simply didn’t win under him. Likewise to Willie though, I think they could have treated him better. They told him like a month before the season ended that he wasn’t coming back and still expected him to stay like a patsy. And than they fire Willie during the middle of the night after winning 3 out of 4 and taking a long flight out there. And to throw icing on the cake, Ryan Church flies to Colorado like a week after a bad concussion.
By the way, the Mets thankfully don’t have to play the Marlins to end it out. They play the Astros.
They said this on SNY at like 630.
Just want to bring a smile to some of you…………. How about them Cowboys losing to the Redskins!!!!!!!!!! LOL YEAH BABY!
Is signing David Weathers a good option? He’s both an ex-Met and an an ex-Yankee. I remember the Mets traded him for Hidalgo in 06′. He wasn’t all that bad in 02′ and 03′ with the Mets even though the Mets were horrible. His numbers this year aren’t bad either.
Well, much better than Heilman, he knows what to do. Heilman will NEVER learn how to pitch from the pen. Heilman pitches as if he has 6 more innings to make up for a mistake. It was the worst decision the Mets made. He should have remained as a starter, and if they didn’t want him, trade him. Why have someone who is obviously out of position?
Because he was very good for 3 years before 2008. I do agree that he wants to and should be starting though. I think they will give him a shot next year in the rotation, where, as you said, one mistake will not hurt him because he is out there 6 or 7 innings. I think Heilman has the stuff and durability to be a reliable back end innings eater, with a 4.50 era, if nothing else. I believe that is the least we will get from him. In an offseason where you have rotation questions, and where starting pitching costs a premium, why not see if Aaron can win a job in the rotation, where he would be happier and possibly pitch better. It is better then just releasing him outright and watching some team like the A’s or Cards pick him up, turn him into a middle of the rotation starter. It would be a very cheap experiment, no downside.
Minaya quote “We have to find a way to get one or two more wins,” maybe if we had a better bullpen along with an inconsistent offense this would have turn out different. You dope
*consistent
Lol now who’s the dope.
The Brewers couldn’t beat playoff caliber teams all year long, and they get rewarded by a trip to the playoffs. I love baseball, but I must say it isn’t the fairest game around.
Sign Brian Shouse.
With the Mets having 30MM coming off the books, I wouldn’t actually mind seeing a large bulk of that going towards bullpen even outside of a closer such as K-Rod. If the Mets aren’t to sign K-Rod though, trading for Street can work.
I’d do what ever is possible to not give up F-Mart or Murphy. Or possibly only F-Mart if straight up for Street. If it took a combination of Niese, Kunz, Nick Evans and even another mid-level prospect … that’s good too.
If the Mets trade Schoenweis who’s due 3.65MM, they shed some salary. As Jorge Sosa’s 2MM is coming off which is apart of that 30MM I mentioned to go along with Wise’s 1.2MM. Heilman was paid 1.2MM too and isn’t likely to be here anymore either which I didn’t include. As the same goes with Duaner Sanchez.
So who’s out there? Juan Cruz is at the top of my list. What about David Weathers or Doug Brocail? These guy’s are old, but they get it done. How about lefty’s? Dennys Reyes. Darren Oliver? Maybe we should have never gotten rid of those two guys. What about Arthur Rhodes? An 0.69 ERA since going to Florida after putting up good numbers in Seattle.
I like the idea’s at the bottom of your post. I am not at all into moving prospects for a closer. Just sign Brian Fuentes or something. 3 years 30 mil if you can, but don’t go crazy. The closer was not what killed us, it was trying to get to the closer. Our farm system stunk coming into this year, and now that it has shown some signs of getting better I do not want to move guys like Niese and kunz, who have had little no to major league experience yet, for a guy like Huston Street, who is overated and injury prone. We can develop relievers ourself, or sign some guys like Juan Cruz and Doug Brocail, like you said. Give Parnell a shot at winning a late inning job. I hate the idea of trading anything valuable for a reliever. They fluctuate so much from year to year it is just a risky proposition You can find good relievers all over the world if you know where to look. Guys like Moylan, Okajima, Brad Ziegler, you can find guys from a crap heap who can be big parts of a bullpen. You should not really ever commit huge dollars to a relief pitcher in my opinion.
What about this really great guy I know of? I think he can close games pretty well. Name’s K-Rod.
You’re right. I do believe K-Rod is a closer who is just above many though. Like Mariano Rivera, Brad Lidge or Valverde. And at the time we thought this about Billy Wagner when we re-signed him and it looked good for a little while but the problem was he was old when we did it. Signing him was partly a steal from the Phillies too.
If you’re going to commit big bucks to the closer, it should be the guy who it really counts. Why should we waste 3 yr/30MM on a guy like Brian Fuentes who’s been in and out of the closer’s role as much as Huston Street and JJ Putz? K-Rod is a closer and I believe the Mets will reget not signing him the same way they didn’t choose to get Vlad Guerrero at a cheap price.
The closer’s spot is as much of a problem as the bullpen is. The Mets blew 11 games in the ninth inning. That’s a problem. And Billy Wagner post-May (just when the Mets were turning it on ironically) was a big part of the closing woes. Look at those back-to-back games Ayala blew in the 9th inning against the Braves. If the Mets won those two games, wouldn’t the Mets be the Wild Card right now?
So it is as much of finding someone who can close the door as it is building the bridge. it’s equally both in my mind because there have been countless times I’ve see this game in the 9th inning with a lead and it get blown.
I think Juan Cruz, Weathers among Dennys Reyes and Brian Shouse are some of the best options out there.
Plus, here’s a little thing how luck works against the Mets. It’s usually a guy like Burrell or Wolf who you’d expect to not do well here after dominating for what ever reason, but the Mets however they did figured K-Rod out the one time he was here. They broke a long streak too.
Arthur Rhodes would have been HUGE in that bullpen. Omar could have pulled that off, don’t know why he let the Marlins get a quality lefty like Rhodes. Omar really dropped the ball. He continually says that no one was available. Really? How about Rhodes? Are you blind!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
First of all, I would like to say we have been through this before, and we will get through it. Met fans are strong. We have to be, because the weak one’s don’t remain Met fans for that long. We will get come back and get through this starting about a month from now when free agency starts.
That said, this team needs a serious change. I am not even sure what, but I think it could involve teading away Reyes or Wright. I know, I know. We can’t trade Wright. He is the team leader. He is the face of the franchise. I know. But the fact is, he is the leader of a team that has never gotten past thw NLCS, when it was expected to contend for a world series for 3 years, in two of those years we fell short of the playoffs. He is the face of the franchise, but the harsh reality is that he is the face of a franchise that when people hear, their first thought is chokers. The face of a franchise that missed out on the playoffs the past 2 years, despite holding their largest leads of each season with just 17 games to play. The face of a franchise that for the second time in a rowhas been beaten by the Marlins out of our playoff spot.
I love David, but in my opinion he is more expendable, from a pure baseball standpoint, then Jose Reyes or even Carlos Beltran are. Jose Reyes is among 2 or 3 shortstops in the game that can do what he does, both in the field, and at the plate. There just are not many .290/.360/.460 type shortstops with gold glove tier defense and 50 stolen base type speed. Think about it. How many do you know? And the kid is 25, and locked up with a team friendly deal. Even Carlos Beltran, how many .275/.375/.500 type hitters with game changing defense are there playing CF in the majors right now? There are not a lot of them, trust me.
And the fact of it is, and this is strictly my opinion, we need a drastic change. Something big. And sadly, the answer may be David Wright. People will look to Reyes’ lousy September and put the blame on him, but in reality he was just outstanding for almost the entire season. He was a rock for us this year. I know the numbers will not suggest it, but for the Mets fans that watched every single game, I know that you see the change in his approach. He rarely ever uses RF anymore, and he strikesout a ton in really huge RBI spots, which was never a trait of his. We used to count on him as our go to guy in RBI spots, with runners on 3rd and less then 2 outs, using the whole field and almost always delivering. That approach appears to be gone, replaced by a power stroke, with a lot more holes in it. I fear if he continues trying to hit that way, that his numbers will begin to reflect his new style of hitting, which is not a good thing.
I could be wrong, but I think that putting David’s name out there, and starting a possible bidding war for him could get us a huge bounty. Just a suggestion. If you could get a Brandon Phillips and Johnny Cueto type package from the Reds, do you go for it? How about to LAD for Matt Kemp and Clayton Kershaw? What about to Cleveland for Grazy Sizemore? To the Angels for Howie kendrick and Ervin Santana? Maybe even Lackey since he is going to be a free agent in a year or two. What about to Texas for a deal based around Ian Kinsler or Josh Hamilton? Not all of these are realistic, but there would be endless oppurtunities to get very good talent back, and where the same is the case with Reyes and Beltran, perhaps even more so, because good CF’s and SS’s are so hard to find, especially in this market, it would be very hard to replace Reyes or Beltran next year on a team wanting to win right now. If we moved Wright, we could sign a guy like Joe Crede, and don’t get me wrong, I know Crede is no David Wright, not even close, but he would provide a good glove and probably 20-25 homeruns, without the OBP of David. You could move Murphy back to 3B, where he has spent his most time. You could sign Case Blake. You could have a platoon. The point is, where you definitely would not get all of the production back that you lose from Wright, you could get some of it back, definitely more then you could get back if you moved Reyes or Carlos Beltran. I am sorry for the rant, I just thought it was something to think about.
Wright is not going anywhere. Ownership would NEVER allow that trade. NEVER.
That is what every single person says when I bring the idea up. That just say that it will never happen, but they don’t give me a good reason why. They all just say he is the face or the Mets! Wilpon would never let it happen!
But why not? Guys get traded all the time, and David Wright has been the “leader” of a team that has collapsed two years in a row, and even got beat by a much inferior Cardinal team in 2006, where David Wright slepwalked through that series. People get on A-Rod across town for not being clutch, how about Wright? How many runs has he left on 3rd with 1 out in the last month?
He’s too valuable to the Mets franchise. On and OFF the field. Fans LOVE David Wright. Other organizations speak highly of David Wright. Other Organizations wish they had David Wright. NYC loves David Wright. He brings in the fans.
I get it. All that is true, but still, winning has to come first. And I have to disagree with the idea he brings in fans. If David Wright was not here and the Mets were competing for a pennant, you better believe that fans are showing up to rock the house. Especially coming into a new ball park. I just don’t really buy into all the off the field stuff being that important. I mean, where has it gotten us? NY loves David Wright, but they will love somebody else, and I gauruntee that they would rather win without him then lose with him. I am not saying we should move him for the sake of making a change, but if you can really get a good package back that you feel will make you better, then shouldn’t you do it? I definitely think that by trading David Wright, we could bring in a lot of talent, filling a lot of holes, even if 3B is filled by a slightly inferior player, filling other holes with talent that can ultimately make us better.
If we could trade David Wright to make the team better, would you do it? I just get the idea that there is no scenario that most Met fans would trade David Wright under, which I just don’t get. I only think that by making a deal, we could improve the club. I don’t have a grudge against Wright, although I am concerned with his pull happy approach this year.
So lets talk then…. who would you trade David Wright for? Seizemore? Hamilton and Kinsler? WHY would those respective clubs trade those players? And how would the Mets be a better team with Seizmore over Wright? Look at the numbers… how much more better would that be? Tex would never trade Hamilton and Kinsler. Kinsler is developing into another Michael Young and there is no way they trade him, so it still remains……… who would we get in return for David Wright that would make the Mets a better team. I don’t want to hear ridiculous names thrown about that we all know would never be traded, so lets have it. The Braves developed Chipper Jones and he brought that organization into one of the most successful periods an organization will ever see. You don’t trade players like David Wright. You just don’t. A FANTASTIC 3rd, 4th or 5th place hitter. A gold glove 3rd baseman. 20/20 every year. 100 RBI +/year guaranteed. So find me someone who would be BETTER than that. Seizemore had a good 2008. D.Wright has shown this kind of production for 3 consecutive years. Lets see the numbers…………
I never suggested Hamilton and Kinsler, that would be absurd. Your idea that Kinsler is turning into another Michael Young is also funny, since Kinsler put up a better year this year then Mike Young ever did, or equal to Young’s career year. I get the idea while reading your post, that you are not that intelligent of a baseball fan, since you iplied that this is Grady Sizemore’s first good season. And it has actually been 5 years of David Wright putting up this kind of production. But you ask the question, why would those teams trade a player like Hamilton, Kinsler, Sizemore? Becuase they are getting back a talent like David Wright, that is why. You just went on and on about how great Wright is, which is true, but that is also the reason we could get such a huge bounty from another team. You suggest that Wright and Sizemore would cancel out, which could be the case production wise, but maybe just getting some new blood, and changing things up will help. After watching the last 2 years, it isn’t going to hurt.
” A FANTASTIC 3rd, 4th or 5th place hitter. A gold glove 3rd baseman. 20/20 every year. 100 RBI +/year guaranteed.”
David Wright is not a gaurunteed 20/20 guy. He didn’t even get to 20/20 this year. I know Wright is great, but there are other great players. Just to answer your question about guys that can be great 3/4/5 hitters and knock in 100 runs every year.
David Wright
Carlos Beltran
Carlos Delgado
Pat Burrell
Chase Utley
Ryan Howard
Chipper Jones
Hanley Ramirez
Ryan Braun
Prince Fielder
Derrek Lee
Aramis Ramirez
Alfonso Soriano
Albert Pujols
Carlos Lee
Lance Berkman
Matt Holliday
Adrian Gonzalez
Manny Ramirez
Adam Dunn
David Ortiz
Jason Bay
Alex Rodriguez
Carlos Pena
Evan Longoria
Miguel Cabrera
Magglio Ordonez
Jim Thome
Jermaine Dye
Justin Morneau
Grady Sizemore
Mark Teixeira
Vlad Guerrero
Josh Hamilton
Ian Kinsler
There is a list of guys I can think of off the top of my head that are capable of batting 3/4/5 and hitting 25 bombs with 100 RBI’s every year. David Wright is only a gold glover by name. He definitely is not a top tier defensive thirdbaseman. Good, not great.
I gave you a whole list of possible trade partners, all teams with young talent that could move for David Wright, and I understand that you don’t think they would be worth it because David is our hometown guy so we all overate him a little bit, just like every other teams fans do with their talent.
Smarter than you my friend. Wright broke out in 2006 (had ok 2005 and PARTIAL 2004 so its not 5 years!), Kinsler had a great year (first great year), Michael Young has done it for a while now. And about not being smart, who’s the idiot now? You want to trade D. Wright for everyone’s All Star player when no one would make these deals…… You make absolutely no sense. And, BTW, this isn’t fantasy baseball. We don’t move All Stars around in the fashion that you are suggesting. Get real. Seriously.
“And the fact of it is, and this is strictly my opinion, we need a drastic change.”
Whoops, that is pretty stupid, huh? I got mixed up with 2 thoughts at once. I meant that this is only my opinion. Sorry people, the Mets permanently traumatized me.
Summation: You blame David for the collapse, don’t you? So you want to get rid of him. Fact is, who’s the one that “wilted” under pressure? Not David down the stretch. None of them are expendable. People say how we need to bust up the core. But besides the core being healthy, what went our way this year? Nothing. We got devastated by injuries, blindsided by controversy over the managerial position, and were out of it. But those three were the rocks that kept us competitive ALL SEASON (besides Santana). Delgado/Pelfrey were big help, but they weren’t the ones that gave us this season. All we need is one more CORE guy, someone who can put up superstar numbers like those 3 day in and day out. Getting rid of one of them would just ruin everything. Unless, of course, you want to start over from scratch. And why in the world would you do that when you have 2 young guys who aren’t even in their primes yet?
That is your opinion. I disagree. I think making a move that sent Wright to Cleveland for Grady Sizemore (or something like that, bringing back another young star)would not ruin us. I think people just have this love affair with David Wright, which is understandable. He is young, he is good looking, he is an all american boy. I get it. He is marketable. People like to compare him to Derek Jeter, which I get. But the fact is, we have not accomplished anything with the last two years of David Wright as our “leader”. I am not saying we have to trade him. I am not even saying that I blame him. Not at all. I blame the whole offense. They cannot score in big games, going back to the 06 playoffs. They all try to hit the longball and end up getting shut down by a mediocre pitching. It has happened for two years. My point is, that if ownership decides to break up the core, and make a big change, I hope it is not Reyes or Beltran moving.
Organizations dream of the day when they can find and develop a talent like David Wright. You don’t give that talent away when you find them. The Dodgers had no choice in trading Mike Piazza. He turned down a ton of money, so they had no choice but to trade him, and suffered for years as a result. If David Wright turns down a ridiculous amount of money from the Mets, then you better believe they will trade him. Otherwise, he’s here to say and rightfully so. The Mets will NEVER overcome losing a quality player like David Wright. NEVER!
That is another thing that I don’t understand. why is David Wright so much better then other teams young stars? I mean, he is really good, without a doubt, but Met fans seem to feel like he is more valuable then a Chase Utley, a Matt Holliday (I know, the Coors factor), Grady Sizemore, Russell Martin, Miguel Cabrera, Hanley Ramirez, Joe Mauer, Ian Kinsler, Dustin Pedroia, when really, he is just a really good young player, but he isn’t better then other really good players. There are other teams that have good young talent too. They could trade David Wright and be better next year then they were this year. They may not be, but it is possible.
LOL, Miguel Cabrera? Dustin Pedroia? Hanley Ramirez? Joe Mauer? Ian Kinsler? Chase Utley? You just named players that wouldn’t be traded because they are the nucleus of their respective teams. Just goes to show that your whole argument and point is absolutely ridiculous. This isn’t fantasy baseball.
They wouldn’t be traded because they are the nucleus of their teams, but when you go 3 seasons in a row of disapointment, then sometimes you make a move. And the point is, if I am trading David Wright I am trading him for another young star, like one of the guys I named. I am not just giving him away for Jeff Suppan or something.
I don’t know about Wright for any of the options you’ve mentioned. The one I would most consider is the Hamilton and Kinsler for Wright, but I think there’s about as much chance of that happening as there is me starting game 1 for the mets next year.
I think trading Reyes is more practical to be honest, but I do agree that we should explore the possibility if we can get a few pieces that we need to fill in return for them.
If you trade Reyes, there is no chance of replacing him at all. I understand that people would be reluctant to trade him, because he is our star and we overvalue him. Same as every team does with their stars, especially young ones. But Reyes truly is a talent that cannot be replaced. Sure, you could sign Furcal, but he has missed really significant time over the last 2 years and is much older, and much more expensive. If you look around the league, there are a lot more 3B who are putting up comparable numbers to David then there are Jose. A-Rod, Miggy, Chipper, then there are guys like Lowell/Youk, Glaus, Beltre, Zimmerman, Aramis Ramirez, Jorge Cantu, etc. Don’t get me wrong, only 2 or 3 of those guys can put up Wrights numbers, but a lot of guys can atleast post something comparable, where in CF and SS this is not the case.
Why would we do this? This is the core of our team? If we’re going to dismantle the core, shouldn’t it start from personnel? I know it’s frustrating. I know it’s hard to believe the Mets won’t do this game. But we don’t have to start from scratch. Our entire roster except for the bullpen and second base (unless Murphy is) is built. We need to address the bullpen, the second base/left field issue and decide whether or not it’ll be Ollie or another starter on the market. Reyes, Wright, Beltran and Delgado are not going anywhere.
The thing is, I feel like a lot of you are under the impression I want to rebuild. I don’t. I don’t want to start from scratch. I also think, that some of you feel like by trading David Wright we forfeigt the chance to compete next year. I don’t think that is the case. It is not as if he would simply be cut. He would bring back a load of talent, and in any deal he moved in we would be getting good young major league talent back. Another thing is that people keep bringing up the core. This core obviously hasn’t been good enough, because despite the best team in the division, for the second year in a row, our boys are now watching the playoffs on TV, for the second year in a row. Like I said somewhere above, I just get the feeling that there is not any circumstance where Met fans would be willing to part with David Wright. I don’t understand that. I am not for giving him away, but just shopping him around, and seeing if you get blown away.
I asked this above, but for Met fans in general, is there any circumstance at all that would make you consider moving Wright? Or do you all just consider him off limits no matter what, no questions asked?
Teams would trade for David Wright to ADD to their organization. They wouldn’t give up the kind of players D.Wright would command in return. Its kind of a moot point. Lets move on.
You don’t have to respond to what I am saying if you want to move on. You are perfectly free to discuss whatever you want, as am I. What do you mean teams would trade for David Wright to add to their organiztion, you don’t think that any team, like Texas, who needs a 3B, would want to build around him? Maybe some team is willing to give you a package that makes you better. You just seem so against the idea of any team even be willing to trade talent for Wright to the point where you won’t even discuss it. You just keep on posting stuff like……
It will never happen!
He is too important!
He is a young star any team would want!
But you don’t give me any reasons why trading him would be such a horrible idea. Some of your own thoughs, not what you hear from the media and on the radio and in the newspaper. You will not even have a discussion. I ask if you would trade David Wright if you knew it would make us better. You refuse to even answer the question or aknowledge the possibility of it.
You talk about how David Wright is so untouchable and how we could never recover from trading him, and then you talk about how other teams won’t want to give up any of the pieces that I suggested, even though you have been going on and on about how every organization dreams of the day that could have a David Wright.
Here is what the Mets bullpen can look like next year if they take the initiative to make it happen.
Long man – Bobby Parnell or Brian Stokes
Middle Relief – Rudy Seanez
Righty Specialist – Joe Smith
Lefty Specialist – Pedro Feliciano
Set up – Juan Cruz
Set up – Dennys Reyes
Closer – Francisco Rodriguez
Sign Rudy Seanez to a 1 yr/2MM contract. Sign Juan Cruz to a 3 yr/12MM contract. If not him, Weathers or Shouse.Sign Dennys Reyes to a 3 yr/12MM contract too. If not him, Rhodes to less years.
Break down the money that we get rid of in the pen:
Scott Schoenweis: 3.6MM
Jorge Sosa: 2MM
Matt Wise: 1.2MM
Aaron Heilman: 1.2MM
Duaner Sanchez: 850K
That’s 8.85MM right there.
Seanez getting 2MM, J. Cruz, D. Weathers or B. Shouse getting for 4MM and D. Reyes for 4MM is in between is only about 1 million more than the budget we spent on building a set up core.
There are takers out there for Schoenweis. They can get something back for Duaner and Heilman if they just do it.
Than out of the 30MM that comes off the books, use around 11 or 12 MM to sign with Ollie, Lowe or Garland and sign K-Rod for 13 or 14MM and they’d still have something left over. Probably to pay for what ever arbitration hikes.
I’m not being negative, but I think if we see Scho and Heilman in Citi Field as Mets is a huge insult to the fans. Release them, buy them out, anything. I just don’t think we can see them anymore.
agreed
..But if anything bonded Johan Santana to Mets fans was definitely that brilliant game on Saturday. Loved his attitude going in and of course the performance. I think everyone can now appreciate him
Although isn’t it ironic that Johan wanted out of Minny because they werent “committed to winning”, where now Minnesota is at the very least gaurunteed a one game playoff, where the Mets will be watching on TV. :-(
Except he didn’t “want out” of Minny – he just let them know what it would take to sign him, and knowing they would not give it he asked to be traded in the offseason or not at all.
You guys see the picture of Daniel Murphy scooping up batter’s box dirt? It really struck me for some reason.
This kid plays the game the right way.
Why not let the kids play. As long as there is a plan in place, I’m OK with some mediocre seasons. But there has to be a plan.
Johan, Maine, Pelf, Wright, Reyes, even Church — these guys are all under 30. They said we had no farm system but Murphy (especially), Evans, Niese, Parnell, Kunz; we saw sparks of possibility with all these kids.
Maybe decline the Delgado option, don’t re-sign Easley, just clear out the old “vets” and let these kids develop. Sign a workhorse 4-5 starter and by all means whoever we can for the bullpen.
It seems to me that Wright and Reyes won’t step up, or feel they can’t, as long as there’s a Delgado or even, oddly, a Marlon Anderson in the room. Beltran seemed to grow this year, he’s like a coach out there with our Infielders in the Outfield.
Much rather watch our homegrown kids…grow with well placed, smart additions, than pay out the a** for Manny and K-Rod and ??? and fall short once again.
I agree, alhough I think you are underating our farm. In terms of talent close to the bigs, you are right, but in A ball, and in the short season leagues, we have some craz young talent. Cesar Puello, Wilmer Flores, Jeffry Marte, Jenri Mejia, we have a lot of young latin american talent. I also disagree with letting Delgado walk. At this point, picking up his option is not even a decision. I honestly don’t care whethe Wright becomes a leader. I would rather him focus on getting back to his old style of hitting, spraying line drives all around the park, protecting with 2 strikes, and not worrying about hitting the long ball.
I think people really need to realize that the template for success is there: the 2006 Mets. A team can win with Wright, Reyes, and Beltran at it’s core, especially with a resurgent Delgado. As was pointed out earlier, the difference from 2006 to now is guys like Floyd, Valentin, and LoDuca to provide leadership…and an effective bullpen. This team never really replaced those guys..Alou could be a leader if he were ever healthy…even Floyd was healthier than him. And Castillo for Valentin is a bad joke on the leadership front.
THis team needs the right complementary parts. Delgado, Reyes, Wright, Beltran, and Church are fine. We need a real everyday LF who can be a leader. I think the catching tandem is fine, but would love to see it upgraded. Santana, Maine, and Pelfrey are a good start to the rotation, let’s see about Ollie. If any culture needs to be changed, it’s that of the bullpen. The only guys I would keep are Smith, Ayala (could be good in the right role – not closer obviously), and I’d actually give Sanchez another shot – people forget he is still recovering from a major surgery, and at least he has guts. Heilman, Feliciano, and Schoeneweis can never throw another pitch for this team. They need to be cut like Mota was last year (I just realize the team with Mota just beat us for a playoff spot. Shoot me now).
You know what pissed me off? florida celebrating on our field.
We need to make sure this never happens again.to think the last day at Shea had these guys sticking it to us 2 years in a row was just too much for me.
Do you think any team is going to take Shoenweiss and Castillo
without us paying them?
This team has along way to go before it gets back to the post season.Not with losers like that.This bullpen just ripped the heart out from us
I STILL BELIEVE IN THIS TEAM….NO MATTER WHAT ITS TRUE WHAT DAMION EASLEY SAID WE SHOULDVE BEEN IN THE PLAYOFFS ….WE JUST MISSING SOMETHING…IF IT WASNT FOR THE BULLPEN BLOWING LIKE 30 GAMES WE WOULD BE 107-55 ( THE BEST RECORD IN BASEBALL) ALL THEY HAD TO DO IS WIN 60% OF THOSE AND WE WOULDVE BEEN IN….THAT BULLPEN MUST GO BESIDES JOE SMITH…UNTIL NEXT YEAR…LETS GO METS!!
I just almost left work as soon as I got in. I work with a pack of Phillies fans in DC. They warned me that I’d be getting sh*t all day and I stormed out. I came back 10 minutes later and threw my lunch at someone’s head. I think they got the message though…
Hey I work on 9th Street in NW. If you need backup against those F*N Philly fans, let me know! :)
Feel for you, dude. Thank God I don’t have to go into an office setting. It’s amazing how seriously we all take our NY Met baseball.
Just like grieving, it will get better, little by little. We need to be like the Dodgers of the ’50s and just keep saying ‘wait till next year’……
Well that was the worst nights sleep ive ever had. Even my morning run was as half-a$$ed as the Mets bullpen was this year.
Off to work. I cant believe such an exciting year ended like THAT.
Good to see Doc back in the house though.
Get rid of the choking culture- starting with Minaya.
Mets send:
Jon Niese
Ryan Church
Bobby Parnell
Nick Evans
Royals send:
David Dejesus
Zach Greinke
Mets sign: Krod, Orlando Hudson, Juan Cruz, Rudy Seanez, Jon Garland, Mark Teixiera
Mets trade for Jarrod Saltalamacchia.
Santana
Pelfrey
Greinke
Maine
Garland
Reyes
Dejesus
Beltran
Teixiera
Wright
Hudson
Murphy
Saltalamacchia
Krod
Cruz
Smith
Seanez
Feliciano
Kunz
There is absolutely no chance the Mets sign K-Rod AND Teixeira. The money Teixeira wants is beyond reproach. Bring back Delgado for a year, he’s earned it.
Just like in 05 when he signed Pedro and Beltran, Omar will ink Krod and at least one other big signing this offseason. Whether that be Burnett, CC, or Tex, he’ll get a lot done.
If it were me, I’d trade for Dejesus and Greinke. I could see why we’d be reluctant to get Greinke because of his issues, but Dejesus would fit in perfect. We could probably swing a Church/Evans deal for Dejesus.
Then, sign Orlando Hudson to play 2B.
Trade for Saltalamacchia from TEX, he’s expendable and they’re looking to move him because they have Laird as well.
Have Fmart and Murphy fight for the other Corner OF spot in Spring Training.
If we don’t sign Burnett, get Greinke, or CC, then pick up Derek Lowe or Garland for the 3rd spot in the rotation.
Santana
Pelfrey
Lowe/Garland/Greinke/Burnett
Maine
Niese
Reyes
Dejesus
Wright
Beltran
Delgado/Tex
Hudson
Murphy/Fmart
Salty
Krod
Cruz
Seanez
Smith
Parnell
Beimel
Stokes
The lineup around our core would be scrappy and consistent unlike this years team. I think we really need to focus on our SP/RP and become a team much like the Angels. Win games 2-1, 3-2, etc. with a strong rotation and back end of the bullpen. This lineup has a nice mix of speed and power, and adding guys like Dejesus and Hudson would make this a very tough lineup.
One more thing, look at Dejesus’ situational numbers:
RISP: 419 BA
RISP 2 Out: 380 BA
Bases Loaded: 556
Runners on: 359
Man on 3rd 2 Out: 480 BA
Hudson:
RISP: 333 BA
RISP 2 Out: 325 BA
Runners on: 299
Man on 3rd 2 Out: 400 BA
Those are amazing numbers, both of these guys would be huge additions to our lineup.
Are you serious? Greinke? Now, I really like Greinke, but the kid has had some serious emotional issues. His first stretch of bad starts will leave a kid with serious social anxiety issues in front on 50,000 boo-birds. I don’t like the prospects of that. I really like the kid, but he’s not NY material.
Trade Castillo? Heilman? Shoneweiss? and who do you think would make this deal,Omar is the only one?
Better to have Sanchez call them a cab anfd let all of them take a ride
RANDOM capitAL letteRS are one OF the early SIGNS of emotional DISTURBance.
grow up
It’s 163, in case you really need to know.
The difference is… this isn’t our lives. It’s baseball, no matter how devoted you are. The friend with the cheating gf is truly f-ing up his life. We’re not by rooting for the Mets. Our team was in contention until the very last day of the season. Most teams in baseball can’t say that.
I always say the difference btwn Yankees and Mets fans (and what makes Yankee fans so arrogant) is that they expect to win it all every year, and cry like p*ssies when they don’t, demanding that heads roll.
Being a Mets fan means you have a nature that roots for the underdog… that isn’t a bandwagon-jumper, rooting only for the sure-fire winner… that you have the courage to risk having your heart broken, because you know it’l be that much sweeter when they do come through.
lawl
haha truth
It is NOT our life, but, we do choose to watch and get involved in the team for recreation and release from our problems. We pay our hard earned money on tickets, hats, shirts and game tickets, because we want to. All we want is a feeling that we can win, not a dread that we will loose. Once the Marlins scored the first run I told my wife it was over and then Beltran teased us with a 2-run HR and then the pen blew it. I switched over to the Cubs game just in time to see the 8th inning 2-run HR that won it for the Brewers. Thats what we missed all year long those late innng heroics.
wow very well said – and all true
amen to jeff
Being a Mets fan means you have a nature that roots for the underdog… that isn’t a bandwagon-jumper, rooting only for the sure-fire winner… that you have the courage to risk having your heart broken, because you know it’l be that much sweeter when they do come through
Do some of you actually believe this drivel?
You’ve internalized the losing to such a degree, you’re trying to find some nobility, some romanticism in it.
Jeezus.
Translation to all your gibberish: Being a Mets fan means rooting for a crummy team most of the time.
And you accept it!
This is NEW YORK.
They have a sky high payroll
They have a huge revenue advantage over 95% of the teams.
You SHOULD be expecting to win.
You shouldn’t be about “rooting for the underdog”
THE HIGHEST PAYROLL IN THE LEAGUE SHOULD NOT BE THE F**KING UNDERDOG.
Very few of you have any standards. But the Wilpons thank sheep like you. You built Citifield, now good luck affording it.
I think Doug Stanhope said it best:
“Rooting for the Yankees is like going to the casino and rooting for the house. The Yankees are supposed to win.
If you need to root for a team just to root, have some character and pick an underdog.”
Hence, why the majority of us are Mets fans.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. LOL
Is citi field for the Dodgers or the Mets???
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